Latest / The Journey with Pastor Shaun Olsen / Episode 16 - From Hurt To Healing

Transcript

Episode 16 - From Hurt To Healing · The Journey with Pastor Shaun Olsen

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the journey.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: My name is John Olson.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: And as you walk your faith life out, we just simply want to have conversations.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: After over two decades of ministry, I believe faith and discipleship is best served in a relational context.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: So we're going to invite some of my closest friends and family into this office and have conversations about faith and life in the context of relationship.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: So do me a favor, like, share, and subscribe because your friends and family need to take this journey with you.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: So let's dive in to a conversation right now.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome back to The Journey, a place for real conversations with real people.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Over 20 years of ministry, I've just determined it's best to have faith conversations in a relational vein.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: So on The Journey This Podcast, we bring in some of my closest friends, some of my family, and some really incredible people that I've had the opportunity to walk life out with, to have real faith conversations.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: We understand that faith isn't a part of your life, it is the center of your life, and in that it affects all aspects of your life.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: So why don't you take this moment, share this with someone that you want to walk your journey out with?
1:09
SPEAKER_01: You can't do this alone.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So while I'm having a conversation with one of my friends today, why don't you like this, share this with someone you want to have the conversation, and go ahead and subscribe for future information because we want to be a part of your journey.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: We want to have this conversation in an ongoing medium.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Today we have an incredible honor of bringing one of my good and long-term ministry friends to the table.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Rick Glass was actually one of the founding overseers of Venture Church.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: In fact, to give honor where honor is due, I'm not sure that Venture Church exists without the wisdom and the friendship of Rick.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: The first time I felt God was leading Angela and I to start Venture Church, I was sitting in my office in Pennsylvania and I called Rick and I said, I know this sounds crazy and I don't know what to do.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: And he gave me simple wisdom.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: He said, Why don't you take a step and see if God gives you another green light?
2:04
SPEAKER_01: And he said, You just go through every green light until you get a red light.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And I got through enough green lights that venture became a reality because I had a faithful friend who gave me godly wisdom and walked it out.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited for the listeners and our friends on the journey to catch up with your story, Rick.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: But I want to say thank you.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Eight years later, we've seen almost 1,600 people say yes to Jesus.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: We've met in 14 locations, and it was your faith and faithfulness as a friend that fueled the fire that God had put in my heart.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: So thank you, not just for giving us the time today for being a faithful friend in a season when I certainly needed it.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: But introduce yourself, your story, your journey, your family, where you are in ministry to all of our listeners here at The Journey.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, thanks, Pastor Sean.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: It was uh yeah, honored to be your friend.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: And even in that season when you're starting, I don't know that it was any qualification for sure, but it was absolute privilege to walk through those early days with venture and and honestly to see where where God has you at today.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty awesome.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Pretty awesome.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, uh, so my name is Rick Glass, and I get the privilege and honor to pastor a church, um, be a part of the pastoral team of a church in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're called Victory Church.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, and I've been at that church.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: I started at that church in 2010, and um I joined the staff in 2012.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a little bit of season of break, which we'll talk about here shortly.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And then um, yeah, honored to be back on the team and on the staff and pastoring people and being in the in the ministry of Messi that we that we're just privileged and honored to do.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's a little bit about my ministry.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I am married.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm in my 24th year of marriage to my wife Ginger, and uh, she is my rock, and we have four amazing adult kids.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: I would say now we have six amazing adult kids because two of our kids are married off, and those two married off kids have uh blessed us by being now Papa and Gigi, and so we have three grandkids.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, my youngest turns one next week, and uh, we have another one-year-old granddaughter and a three and a half year old, and we are blessed, bless, blessed beyond all the yeah, just counting our blessings each and every day.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Man, that is so good.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have loved watching uh your journey and your story from afar uh through social media and connection.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: But I just I love seeing your family, uh, the joy on you and Ginger's faces uh every time there's a picture, just uh really grateful for the blessings of God uh in your life and who you are as a man.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh and today, as we lean into your story, uh it is so common uh to let everybody see the highlights.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh it is so common and it is such a trap of the world that we live in that I get to look and see, man, they got grandkids and they got adult kids, and life is just so good for the glasses, nothing could ever go wrong.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: And that's almost the perception in ministry that's like, oh, life is just perfect.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: And then it puts pressure on us when things are wrong that we are wrong.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: When things wind up unraveling that it is our fault, we gotta hide it, we gotta conceal it.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm so compelled by the idea of confession.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: If we confess, God heals.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if we bring to the surface, if we reveal it, God will heal it.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: And you sent me your story in a written form, and I was so inspired by it.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to bring it to our listeners.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So if you're listening, if you're catching up with this, what you're about to receive is pure gold.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it took Rick a lot of journey to deliver this to you.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I would just love to walk out your story.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say it's pure God, not pure gold.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so good.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and because God is a God that is who he is in his graciousness and kindness of redeeming brokenness.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And that's all of our story, but that's definitely our story um of just living in brokenness.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: And um, it really was a hurt and a brokenness, even in our ministry life that we experienced uh in the church, and then um, yeah, and then how God comes around and he redeems all things broken because that's just what God does.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: And so we get to be obviously the recipient of his kindness and his goodness and his grace.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, you just kind of want me to share a little bit.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's just kind of walk it out because I think uh there are little moments in in part of your story that are gonna appeal with our audience, and I might even lean in and ask questions because the concept is God is perfect, but let me tell you, God's people, even inside of the church, are not perfect.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: And there's this disenchantment that's happening with the church because the church hurt us.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, people hurt you, and whether in the church or at work or at Starbucks or in traffic, people are people and they're imperfect and they hurt us.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And you and your family experienced a hurt uh through church.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and your response to it, I think, is so powerful.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it is just that it's you know, even for all the venture listeners, Pastor Sean.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm gonna just let you know now, he ain't perfect.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: So uh flawed people leading flawed people.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: That's what you know the makeup of the church is, and that's what it was.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate even the opportunity to to share this.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I had one of the things I had written down, you know, and Sean's referring to my writing.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: I kind of journaled my my experience, if you will, and I and I sent it to my good friend Sean, like, just here, here's just the goodness of God.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Here it all is in a in about a 30-page read or 30 30-minute read.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, this is how good God is.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: And so, but one of the things I wrote at the very beginning is um silence can sometimes leave people alone in their pain.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: And so just the fact that sharing this, um, for me, you know, not being silent because you know, we have a story to tell.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: And for any of the listeners out there, like don't stay silent because that just leaves you waddling in your pain.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: You got to share your story because your story is part of what God's makeup in and he's doing in your life.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, um, yeah, to testify that the church um is broken is it's just again, broken people leading broke people.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but going back, I had I had the dream job of all jobs.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: So I again I was in the marketplace for many, many years.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I went off to Bible college to chase um my calling that God had on my life, even as a high school kid.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: I believe that God called me to ministry.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I went off to Bible college and then I did a little bit of detour and uh and went off and I and I even call it some of my my Jonah years, I was running from um until God called me back into what my calling is.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: But then I I I then got to have my dream job.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: And so my church that I get to pastor at now, Victory Church, our lead pastor, Pastor Kurt Sieberg, um, had asked me to join the team.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I got to do what I got to do every single day.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is this is unbelievable that I get to do this and that I get to be in people's messes, that I get to be in people's lives, and that I get to see all of the next steps and the goodness that God is doing each and everybody's life.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was a privilege.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: And then in the early days of our church, um, it was a blast, it was fun, and we began to grow quickly.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, we became we became a multi-site church.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, when I started attending that church, they had just made the announcement that they were starting a a satellite campus in our uh community.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, there couldn't be more excited.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So we got to be a part of that um launch and launch team and leadership a part of that.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And shortly after that, he he asked me to join the team.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I joined the staff team again.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was a privilege and an honor.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Then as we began to grow, yeah, there's growth can sometimes bring hard hard stuff, and uh growth brings um pain stuff, and um yeah, it's it became hard, the pressures were becoming more evident.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh you know, here we are now on the rear end of it, and we can see the the Monday morning quarterback, and God was all part of the story all along.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: So in our in our growth, um, again, Victory Church was our home.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: We loved, loved, loved, experienced the the life change.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: And I've actually Victory Church allowed our us to grow, me to grow pure personally, my wife and I to grow in our marriage.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: It was it was an amazing place for us to be and be connected.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Um and then there became the tensions and the and the that nothing nothing drastic happened in our story as far as no scandalous um no scandalous embezzlement or uh inappropriate sins or anything like that.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: It just was weariness and tireness of that, and that began to do something in my heart, um, where I became unrest, unsettled, unsure, questioning of what God had for me.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Was I in the right seat?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Was I in the right spot?
12:04
SPEAKER_00: God, what do you have for me now in the future?
12:07
SPEAKER_00: And all of this unrest began to settle.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and really what it is is the enemy talking and whispering in our ears, and just this unrest happened to where I became to a point of just kind of brokenness because growth that was happening, it brings complexity, and and the calling brings pressure.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: That's part of being in the ministry, it's part of where I was in my seat at the time.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: But even like you said at the beginning, even the healthiest churches, people are just people, and so we're just broken people, uh, coming alongside broken people, uh, doing group with broken people, doing life with broken people, giving hugs each and every weekend experience with other broken people.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: That's just who we are.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: But that same place, same friendships that we had, and that happened with our, you know, my lead pastor became one of my best friends.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, I became the executive pastor, kind of his right hand, if you will, his second chair, and and I was honored and privileged to do that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: So we weren't just co-laboring, we were um we were friends and we had done life together, we had traveled together, we had um I had the privilege of uh marrying off several of his kids and walking through all of that and celebration, family celebrations.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a beautiful friendship in um ministry that we had.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And then again, over the years, again, I was there for 10 years total.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Over the years, um, it just the stress, the strain began to strain us, and it began to.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: I I drive home, Sean, after a long day of meetings, I'd be replaying things in my head.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: And could I have done something different?
14:02
SPEAKER_00: The tensions that we're feeling.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, because the church ministry workplace is is not far different as far as the working environment of other workplaces.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: There's stresses, there's things, there's people, right?
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like replying some things in my head and could I have done something different?
14:25
SPEAKER_00: What about that conversation?
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you you bring that home, I said, to the dinner table, and you bring that home to wakes you up at 2 a.m.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: thinking, how God, what's happening here?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And I I began to have a place of just um grieving before the loss of what happened, and that is that I ended up leaving eventually, but I I started the grieving process of knowing that I don't think that I am being effective and my best and the best version of Rick anymore.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: And my wife, uh man, God bless Ginger, she was such a rock in all of this.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: She could see questions and hurts and pains way before I did.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: She's super intuitive.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it's, you know, the gift of a wife is much like the gift of the Holy Spirit, right?
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but because I was in this hard season, we had many, many conversations, and I had actually made the the hard decision to um to leave, leave what we loved.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: We look we loved our church family, we loved our pastor, we loved the people that we got to minister to and with.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And so, but we made the decision for the best and healthiest for us at the time is what we felt that God was um calling us away.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the things that I had shared is sometimes it's hard to understand the difference when you are called to something and then called away from it, and the obedience to being called away, because we've dude we did feel that was the right thing to do at the time, so we were called we were called away.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I ended up having a conversation with my lead pastor um with lots of tears and uh lots of uh grief experience, and then said, I think it's best that um best for Rick and Ginger and best for Victory Church in this time that we just take a step away from ministry.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we did.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Um we stepped away and um and and with some tension.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: There was some some tension.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna sugarcoat the fact that it was a hard season.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: It was a hard season of uh working relationships and this the tension that we felt, a tension of feeling that I wasn't um being effective anymore, wasn't being feeling used uh to my full capacity and effective anymore.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And so um yeah, so we left with some tension.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was hard, that was hard to experience that.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but in all of that, God was growing us, God was it's interesting.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Um in the fact that then we felt like we were in this season of what now?
17:30
SPEAKER_00: What do we do now?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: And there was some friends that were also gathered on Sundays and like, hey, can we just connect and pray and see what we want to do as a church?
17:41
SPEAKER_00: So we kind of had a very small, um, small group, it's really what it was.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: We did some uh devotional and some Bible studies, just some praying together, um, pouring into each other.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: And then which church are you gonna go to?
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Where are you gonna go?
17:57
SPEAKER_00: And how can we do what we do best?
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And we've started, we helped start a church.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: We helped beginning the church plant of a small church plant with a friend of mine, and so I was helping in leadership with that.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a pastoral staff or paid or anything like that.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: It was just in a helping leadership role while I would entered back into the marketplace.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I say marketplace ministry because we're doing ministry wherever we're at.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: I just makes this relevant for people that aren't in vocational ministry.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: They're going, yeah, but I don't work at a church.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know what?
18:34
SPEAKER_01: You still have friends.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: You have friends at work, you have friends in your neighborhood, you have friends everywhere you go.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And I bet all of us at some point in time, we've had a tenured friend that turned into a tension friend.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know, that's a lot of what I hear.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, man, we were friends, we traveled together, we went to each other's kids' weddings and all this stuff.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: And over tenure, as the the thing is this everybody's okay with change until people change.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Like uh, you know, people at Venture Church, man, we want it to change.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Are you ready for you to change, for me to change, for the person that sits next to you to change?
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Because if the thing is gonna change, the people inside of the thing is gonna change.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And that happens in the workplace.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we want our business to grow.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: If you want your business to grow, the infrastructure that supports your business, the relationships that exist in your business, we want our family to grow.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Every time you marry somebody new into the family, dynamics change and there's new tensions.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Everything that grows means people are growing and not all growth.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes weeds grow in the garden, right?
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that begins thorns.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I think you know, a lot of people can identify with a tenured friend that becomes a tension friend, and then you're going, now we need to have a conversation, or now I need to know how to wrestle this.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important to say marketplace doesn't uh exclude you from this conversation, it actually includes you.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh and even more so.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that's kind of where the season we're at.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: I got the opportunity, um, you know, when we work in a church setting, um, it's not a bubble, but there is some um installation of ourselves versus out.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I got to experience some really cool conversations and connections with uh with people about uh faith, about um church, about God in general, that I probably would not have normally have had um, you know, in the church office setting, if you will, versus the out of church office setting that I got to be in for a for a short season.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, we helped chart it start a small church and we kind of got that going, but then we're trying to figure out what was right for ourselves and you know, um there was uh and I'm jumping forward about three years.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: So I was out of the Victory Church uh family, if you will, for about three years, um, to when I had a former colleague reach out to me and had asked if uh if she would if she said her mother had passed away and I had walked through a lot of family things and heard their story and knew her, knew her mom.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And she said, I would just be honored if you would help with uh facilitating the service for my mom's uh passing and a celebration of life, and of course, honored and privileged to come alongside of her to do that.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: And so in doing that, um that was a Christmas weekend, is when her service was of 2024, and I had received shortly after that a text from my my pastor friend Kurt Sieberg, who leads Victory Church, sends me a text again.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: I had not had much, if uh many conversations uh with PC, what we call And Pastor Kurt PC with PC over those so several years, but um he had reached out and says, Thank you for taking care of Linda's mom's service.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: It means a lot.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: She sure loves you.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be actually away over the holiday weekend uh visiting our own family, but it means a lot that you will take care of her.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: By the way, um, Pam and I often think of you and Ginger.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: We miss you and we uh we do love you guys, and maybe we can connect in the new year.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, boy, isn't that just like you god open this door through a through a through a loss and a grief of loss, honestly.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: And then he opens this door for us to uh so we reached out and I said, Of course, Ginger and I often think of of you guys because again, they were dear friends besides my pastor, um, and my friend and my co-worker, my co-labor in ministry.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, we often think of our Victory Church family, my pastor.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: And so we um had set up a just a reconnect, and uh, and in doing that, um we I think we caught up for about three and a half hours that first night in a rest.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Just uh, and that was really just a catch up.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: And it was how's your kids, how's your grandkids?
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And Pastor Kurt had walked through some health journey stuff that he was experiencing, which the church was well aware of, but kind of caught us up on all of his health journey and what God was working and teaching him through that journey that he was experiencing.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And and it just was honestly, Sean, it was um just a friends catching up with friends, like we kind of pick back up exactly where we left off, so to speak.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And it was sweet, it was a sweet reunion.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I think about you know the three-year gap, yeah, what a delay that is.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think sometimes we believe that God's delays are his denials.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: And I I just think sometimes God is developing us in the delay.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: And as I read your story, I'm so reminded of the work God did in you when you were away from ministry.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, He did.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: It was a heart work.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of us want to, you know, we're so bound by time, right?
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, like it's gotta be quick.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Tick tock, tick tock, you know.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: We're a fast food generation, an Amazon Prime.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: You can have it to me in the next 20 minutes.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: If I order it by the time I play pay for it, it'll be at my doorstep.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes we want healing, emotional, relational healing, to be on an Amazon timeline.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, in my life experience, and I would love to hear yours, fast healing is normally shallow healing.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, like, all right, I cover, like go into your flower bed and just throwing some new mulch over it, going, all right, it looks good.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: I can do that in 20 minutes, but it's gonna take me two days to pull the weeds.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I I I'm so reminded that that text message, hey, we'd love to connect, is probably received differently month one, year one, than it is year three.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: It for sure was.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Because I was I was probably not ready to connect in month one, honestly.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was um for sure, but it was such because of the work that God did in my heart and in Ginger's heart in our heart.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's really what it was.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: It was a God work.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Um knowing that I had done some my identity, what was it?
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Is it wrapped up in being on a stage and being one of the pastors, or is it just being a son and chosen son of who our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is my identity in?
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Is it in the church?
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Because now the church isn't there anymore.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: My job, my role isn't there anymore.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So I just did some really hard work and some, you know, chiseling away of some pride issues.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, I like to be right, asked my wife.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think I'm right.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: And so, but what was it?
26:17
SPEAKER_00: There's not sometimes right or wrong, and sometimes it's just different.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was, yeah, God was definitely softening my heart.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and all along, I will say, um, it's easy when you're hurt by church.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: I think it's easy to become cynical, to become jaded, um, to become, but and and I feel like there was there was some, I'll say, I'll be honest, there was some leaning towards some that, but as a whole, we loved the bride of Christ so much that we just didn't let uh let we didn't go there.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really important thing uh to unpack for people.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: What you allow as you navigate hurt determines what you get out of the hurt.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I read as kind of underneath the surface as I read your story is listen, you're probably hurt right now.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Somebody is dealing with hurt as you listen to this.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: You're like, I need this.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Listen, being hurt is a reality of life.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Choosing what you let in during your hurt, this is really important uh because the seeds you sow in hurt will determine the harvest you get after you're healed.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of us we do.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: We sow the bitterness, we sow the anger, we sow the resentment, we sow the cynicism, we sow all the skepticism, all this stuff.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden we're three years later and we're not receiving this reconciliation, we're not receiving this new hope.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, where did it come from?
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Because in your hurt, you sowed a lot of seeds you didn't want to harvest on.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's that's so true.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: That's such a good word, Sean, because the fact is it would have been easy, honestly, just to kind of walk away from church, period, done.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it just would be easy.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: That's the easy thing to do.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, the hard thing is to press in and and continue to chase after and grow after relationships.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Let God do the work in me.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And so that was my prayer, and that really became our prayer as God, because you have me in it, just grow me through this.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that that was where we were at, and that really became a softening heart posture of where we were.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: I just want to grow in this, God, do your best version, uh, make your best version of Rick through all of this, and that's and that's kind of where we wanted to do because again, cynicism and jadedness and just ugliness, fill in the blank.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: It's easier to be that, but we just didn't want to go there because we love the local church so much.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: This is kind of what drops into my soul is we may not choose our pain, but we do choose our posture.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: And the posture we choose in pain will reveal the purpose we see in our pain.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people take a posture of resenting the person that caused their pain, and that removes their relational tendencies moving forward.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: That I remove myself from the church, I remove myself from this place of work, I remove, remove, remove because I don't want to see anything in me in the pain.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to grow through the pain.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Listen, if I'm gonna be in it, I might as well grow through it.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: And that posture, I think, is what has released you to the reconciliation, which is what we're gonna talk about in just a moment.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because if we don't take the right posture in the pain, we will never see that God can still have a purpose for us in a season of pain.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And if you're listening to this and maybe you've had a relationship implode, maybe somebody's walked out of your life, maybe you've been hurt by the church, maybe you've gone through something, and you're sitting just like Rick going, Man, I feel like I'm in the wilderness.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I am.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: God, what are you doing here?
30:09
SPEAKER_01: Um I can tell you this: you didn't choose the pain, you didn't choose the hurt, you didn't choose to be in this season, but you do choose your posture.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of us focus our attention on what was done to us and not our response.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you may not be responsible to the other person's action or the words that were spoken or the disappointment or the trickle effect, maybe even in your case, the trickle of tension, maybe we would call it, but we are responsible to our posture.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And I so admire you and Ginger and your posture towards God.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: People hurt you, God did not.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: People disappoint you, God did not, right?
30:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's so easy to take my posture and go, well, God, you allowed it.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: God, it was your church.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, you didn't turn your heart from God.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: You didn't turn your heart from God's people.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: In fact, quite the opposite, you turned towards him.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm reminded of Psalms like David goes through this whole thing and he's wailing and how long, oh Lord, why, oh Lord?
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And then he gets to you and he goes, Yet I will praise you again.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: In other words, I'm gonna acknowledge all of my pain, I'm gonna acknowledge all of the disappointment and all of the hurt, but at the end of the day, I'm turning back towards you, God, because my posture is really important.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, amen.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the pain still is the pain, but what we do with uh it and turn it into purpose afterwards because that's what God does best, you know, and that's the story of redemption, and it's kind of where we got to, which is really cool.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: And so I shared that Pastor Kurt reached out.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: We read, we did reconnect, we had some subsequent reconnections after that, and those because that first night again was just a kind of a fun friend catch-up after three years.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: We had a lot to catch up on, uh, just just in our support, so to speak.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: But then we got to a point where we had a we're having conversations, and we did just come to the realization of there was some pain, there was some um unsettledness and some hurt that happened, and so let's just call it what it is.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And then we got to the point where just we had some through tears and hugs, I'm sorry, and please forgive me.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And I just when you can get to that point, it's just a cool gospel reconciliation that is after the heart of God, and often when people get hurt, I uh one of the things I wrote is there's often you choose distance, which is kind of naturally just re-re-close to, right?
32:48
SPEAKER_00: You choose distance or you choose division, and you talk smack about the church, which doesn't help.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the heart of God.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, you so you choose distance or division, but a third better option is reconciliation and understanding that that doesn't just happen.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, there is a season of uh of God doing the work, um, but making sure that you're moving towards that option versus the others, and because that is after the heart of God that we're always chasing after the heart of God, which is reconciliation.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, he came to reconcile people from our destiny because of sin and brokenness, and he is the reconciler, he is the redeemer, he is the restorer of all things broken, and um, and we very much got to experience that, of course, in a salvation and grace experience, but in a relational thing too, where he he restores all things because that's what he does better.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I love your distance, division, and reconciliation, because I think there's personalities that would probably appeal to each one of those.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's the person that's like, all right, I'm just stuffing the hurt down.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, here's the thing about all of those.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, all of those aren't singular to the person that hurt you.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: If you choose distance, you know what you're gonna find?
34:18
SPEAKER_01: Relational distance with everybody, because that's the attack of the enemy.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: If I choose that I'm gonna distance myself from the hurt, guess what?
34:26
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna recognize all people have hurt you because we're imperfect by nature.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: So what you're going to find is that you're alone.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a real way of life in an overly connected, underconnected way.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: So here is the fact is if you're choosing distance, if you're choosing distance, then you're choosing distance in your marriage, you're choosing distance in your family, you're choosing distance in your workplace, you're choosing distance potentially with your kids because your your way of protection is distance.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's the stuffer.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: The conflict-oriented person might choose division and you're going and you're talking bad and you're building division.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: The thing is you're gonna divide so much of God's body that you're gonna be standing alone too, because you're surrounding yourself by hurt.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: You're surrounding yourself by division, and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: So you're literally bringing destruction on yourself out of hurt.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: The only life-giving option is reconciliation.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and your story of reconciliation at victory is kind of where I want to bring this whole thing to a head.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Because there was a moment where you were talking about your future and you actually went to PC as your pastor.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: And when I read that, I said, what humility to invite a voice that hurts you into a futuring conversation.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: But that risk, that conversation set you up for where you are now.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Let us into that just a little bit.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, and when we had our, I'm sorry, uh, please forgive me moments and those beautiful, I can the conversations that we had.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: And I specifically remember one um at a at a special worship night, and PC had said, listen, what was is behind us, and our best years are still ahead of us.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And I believe God has something for you, um, even in um even in this church, Rick.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: And so we started attending Victory Church by um, you know, the church that we love and that we missed, and the family, uh faith family that we get to be a part of uh once again.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: And so we just started attending and we did that for about a year, and and gradually then honestly at the beginning, Sean, I think as many um hurt church hurt people, uh, we just came and we just attended.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's important to say too, that's okay, right?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: It's healthy at many times, healthy, right?
37:01
SPEAKER_00: And not to jump back in where you were the the head greeter at your other church and you found this church where there's life and health, and yeah, I'm gonna jump back.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: No, just take a breather and let God do his work in you uh in that season.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: But we did, and we just kind of attended, and really it was life-giving to be around our faith family once again.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Eventually, we were um privileged to start in our our serving roles and leading roles um with my leadership uh history that I had there as a um attender.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we got to do that.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: But then in the business that I was in, I was presented with an opportunity of, you know, a future possible opportunity with this business.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: And it was just kind of weighing on Ginger and I, and what are we gonna do?
37:54
SPEAKER_00: And what does this look like?
37:55
SPEAKER_00: So I did go to PC and I sat down with them and I said, you know, you're my friend, but you're my pastor.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And would you pray with me and pray with Ginger and I as we're trying to navigate kind of what does the next future uh of Rick and Ginger look like?
38:14
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, if you're trying to talk through and think through and pray through the future, would you consider or would you pray through in those praying options maybe joining our team again?
38:27
SPEAKER_00: And so that's and I again I was uh surprised and humbled um because that's that's not a normal thing.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, at all.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: So abnormal in the church world and almost any world, yes, and so um course then that began our conversations of what if, like what if we we would join Lock Arms again and join the team?
38:52
SPEAKER_00: What if what what would those look like?
38:54
SPEAKER_00: And so we began having some what if conversations, and and again, my heart was starting to leap.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: And I remember coming home and Ginger, as we talked about a possible business opportunity venture that was presented to us, and she's like, I think you could excel in that because I trust you, I believe you, and the you know, you would do an amazing job at that.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: However, can I just tell you the best version of you that I got as my husband, Rick, was when you were in church ministry.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I really think we need to pray this through and consider what would it look like for you to be back in ministry.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: And so, again, fast forward here we are now, but um we got to the point where our what if conversations turned into let's go, and he's like, hey, let's join the team again.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I am again humbled.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Um it really is that I like I as I drive in to the office now, it's just it's it's emotional sometimes.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh so good.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: I get to do this, and from where it was to where it's now, it's just an amazing, an amazing opportunity that God's like, hey, I was preparing you.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we think the the wilderness is punishment and it's not punishment, it's preparation.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so good.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And that season of three years that seemed, yeah, three years goes pretty quick now, but it was long three years for me because my I longed to do ministry, and uh, but God was preparing, He was working, He was preparing my heart.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: I really believe for what is to come, and I really believe our best years are still ahead of us, and uh, even as an old duffer in my late years of ministry, um, I really believe our best years are ahead of us.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited that I get to be a part of our team and get to be uh uh, you know, again, a more seasoned influence on our young staff.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, as uh yeah, it's just an exciting time that I get to be a part of.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And we are blessed.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: We are a couple of things I want to ask specifically, because when I caught up with you a couple weeks ago or whatever it was, uh, you don't sit in the same seat you used to sit in, right?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's interesting is that uh reconciliation does not always restore what was, it restores what is.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people have old expectations on new relationships and healing, but you have to realize when you walk through the wilderness of a relationship, and and if you're approaching a reconciliation conversation with somebody, understand this.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Time changed you and time changed them.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: It is unfair to think that the reconciliation is going to store what was.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like when we came out of COVID, everybody's like, I just want to go back to life as normal.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: God isn't interested in taking you back.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: He grew you forward.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: So as you approach reconciliation, don't have old expectations, have new hopes, new desires, new dreams.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's in relationships, that's in marketplace ministry, that's in occupations.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but as you come out of a season of hurt and you're like, all right, I'm gonna have the boldness to go into reconciliation conversations, you cannot approach God's reconciliation with old expectations.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: The other thing I'll say that is so profound, and I loved in your story, is that you invited PC to pray over your future.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think there's something powerful.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: When Saul was made blind, Ananias has to go pray for him.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: And if you read that account in Acts chapter 9 with Ananias and Saul, uh, Ananias is complaining to God about Saul.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: And then something shifts.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: And when he goes over to Saul, he prays this word brother.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Like God had done a work in Ananias.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we need to invite people to be a part of our story, to pray into our story.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: You could have totally resisted the pastoral council of PC, totally resisted his shepherding heart, and you probably wouldn't be where you are today.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: When you allow God to do a deep restoration in you, he can release deep things through you.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of us go, well, that's fine.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: God, you can work on me, but I'm not bringing other people into it.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: But James 5, 16 says, confess your sins to each other and you will be healed.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's a really important part of uh even Saul's conversion is that the very people he went to arrest and to torment and judge are the ones that had to pray for him for him to receive his healing in his he in his eyesight back.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: And part of your reconciliation may be a couple things confession and praying over each other.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other, and you will be healed.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Rick, I gotta tell you, I just am enamored with your disposition of humility.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: And if I can Celebrate and call our listeners that are journeying in their faith.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: God always honors humility.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think this season of what you're walking in and the joy I see in you, uh, the growth I've seen in you, uh, the contentment, like you're just content where God has for you, and it's so fun.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: All of that is based in a spirit and a posture of humility.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you, our listeners, are coming out of a season of hurt, don't let hurt grow a garden of pride because pride will destroy you faster than the hurt ever could.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: You have to intentionally grow a garden of humility in your heart so that you have a future worth living.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's the biggest trap of hurt, is that I I want to come out prideful and arrogant and justify my decisions and justify my behaviors.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: But humility is so powerful, and Rick, you have so exemplified that in every way, honoring your pastor, honoring the church, honoring God, and I'm grateful for the example that you give to the body of Christ.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, why don't you give our our listeners here just a final piece of wisdom as you kind of wrap your journey up, and even maybe a book that you found really profound in your story?
45:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, so let me can I, if I could end this way.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: In the writing that I I gave to you, Sean, I'm just gonna kind of read the last part of what I I wrote, and it was a letter to the church.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: And so for any listener out there that's part of the church, that's part of the the large body of Christ at large, um, here here's here's what I wrote.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Most of the New Testament is made up of letters written by the Apostle Paul to the church.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: Some were corrective, some were clarifying, many were deeply encouraging.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And Paul wrote to imperfect congregations filled with imperfect people, churches navigating division, misunderstanding, leadership conflict, immaturity, and growing pains.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: And yet, despite their flaws, he still calls them saints.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: He still reminds them who they were in Christ, and he still believed God was at work in them.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: He did not write as a critic standing outside, he wrote as a shepherd who loved them deeply.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: And so, like Paul, if I were to write a letter to the church, I would uh not be a letter of accusation, it would uh not be a letter of grievances, it would not be a defense of even my own story.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: I I would want to write a letter of encouragement, and so be because even in brokenness, the church remains God's chosen instrument to reveal his grace to the world.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I write, so let me end this way, if I may.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: Dear church, I write this not as a critic, not as a casualty, not as a hero, but as a brother.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: I have seen you at your best, but I also felt you at your most human, and I still love you.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: The church is not a building, it's not a brand, it's not a leadership structure, it is people, imperfect, growing, redeemed people.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: And wherever people are gathered, there will be beauty and there will be brokenness.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: I once believed that if everybody loved Jesus deeply enough, conflict would disappear.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Years later, I understood something better.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: Loving Jesus deeply does not eliminate conflict, it gives us the tools to walk through it.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: The church has wounds, but it also has healing.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: It has misunderstandings, but it also has forgiveness.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: It has tension, but it also has grace.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: And so if you've been hurt by the church, I want you to hear this clearly.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Your pain matters.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Minimizing it helps no one.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Pretending it didn't happen isn't spiritual maturity at all, it's avoidance, but neither is carrying it as a permanent identity.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not defined by the chapter, that wounds you, and neither is the church.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: I have learned that brokenness in the church is not evidence that God has abandoned it, it is evidence that grace is still required within it.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: We preach redemption, we must also practice it.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: We preach reconciliation with God, we must also pursue reconciliation with one another.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: That pursuit will require humility, it will require uncomfortable conversations, it will require the courage to say the words, I'm sorry, require the strength to say, I forgive you.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: And it may require time, but it is worth it because a restored relationship declares the gospel louder than a flawless reputation ever, ever could.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: And the enemy would love nothing more than to hurt turn into hardness, but for disappointments to become division, for silence to become separation.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: But Christ calls us to something higher.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: He calls us to lay down pride, to seek peace, to guard unity, to move toward one another instead of away.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't write this because our story was easy.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: There were tears, there were long seasons of silence, there were questions without immediate answers, but God did what only He can do.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: And so, if there's any leaders, I would say this: guard your heart from pride, listen more than you speak, pursue clarity before assumption, and never let position outrank relationship.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: For those that maybe have left a church wounded, don't let hurt convince you that the bride of Christ is disposable.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Take time to heal, seek wise counsel, allow God to refine you in the wilderness and remain open to the possibility that redemption really is possible.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: And if there's anyone that's currently walking through tension, have hard conversations, choose humility first.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't wait for perfect timing, seek godly timing.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: And remember that being right is rarely more important than being reconciled.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: The church is worth fighting for, not with anger, but with grace, not with accusation, but with humility.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Because when broken things are restored, the world gets to see a glimpse of heaven.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: And our story didn't end in departure, it didn't end that way at all.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: It ended in redemption.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: And redemption tells a better story than bitterness ever could.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: So, church, keep growing, keep learning, keep forgiving, keep reconciling, because the same God who reconciled us to himself is still in the business of restoring what feels beyond repair.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: And what was broken, it can be redeemed.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: With hope, Rick.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: That's how it ended.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: That is so good.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: And there's so uh, I think there's so much in there for the body of Christ.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: And when I got to the end of what you wrote and I read that, uh, that's what's inspired us to have this conversation.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Rick, thank you first uh for your friendship.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for your faith and faithfulness in Angela and I's journey getting into venture, but thank you for your transparency uh of sharing your story with the global church, Big C church.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I pray that God continues to open up doors for this to be shared because I think it's an ongoing conversation that not too many people are leaning in in a healthy way.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: There's plenty of talk about church hurt, but nobody wants to talk about the reconciliation that God calls us to in it.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so thank you for being a voice in that.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're grateful.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and thank you, listeners, for joining us.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for inviting us in to your faith journey.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: And I want to continue to encourage you, you can't do this alone.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Share this conversation with someone.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: You probably know someone that has been hurt by the church.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: You probably know someone that's walking in hurt right now.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing hurt tells you you're alone.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing more powerful than the acknowledgement of a God that will be in it with us.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: He wept with Mary and Martha, knowing that Lazarus was coming out of the grave, because I believe God sits in hurt with us.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: He cries with us.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so invite somebody in to your journey.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: Share this with them.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Subscribe for future conversations because we are disciples and we're making disciples, right?
52:27
SPEAKER_01: We're having discipleship conversations.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: We're called to grow in our faith, not just grow the church.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think that's a misnomer that we grew our church by 10%, but the people of the church, the disciples, the individuals in the church, we are called to grow more like Christ each and every day of our life.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's why we want to walk the journey out with you.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: So listen, let's grow closer to Christ and let's go change the world.