Latest / Sometimes There's Side Eye / STSE# 65: Grief Support with Kate Rapkoch of Paws + Breathe

Transcript

STSE# 65: Grief Support with Kate Rapkoch of Paws + Breathe · Sometimes There's Side Eye

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Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
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friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
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dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
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training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
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banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy. What are we talking about today,
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Heather? Today we have a special guest
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and as usual, I'm very excited. We have Kate Rapcook and she is
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from Pause and Breathe. So welcome, Kate.
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Hi guys, thank you so much for having me.
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So excited to have you here. I know I'm excited.
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Oh my gosh. OK.
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I was trying to think, how long have we known Kate?
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Well, at least eight years, because pre Thiago we were
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volunteers at the shelter together.
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So maybe nine years. Yeah.
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Yeah. Oh, tile's so weird, like I
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don't even know. So probably around then, yeah.
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I I don't even know either. What do you think, Christy?
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You're like making like. Yeah, because my memories just
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came up of the trip that Kate and I took to the best friends.
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And that's honestly we didn't really know.
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We had met each other once before.
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Then I drove in a car to best friends and we stayed in the
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same room. Yep, Yep.
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That's how I got to know Kate. And I was trying to think how
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long ago that was. Was it 7 or 8 years ago?
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Yeah, but. Yeah, I think that was 20/20/17
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maybe. Oh yeah, and Thiago, Thiago was
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born in 2017, so that's probably like that year.
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What a great year. We always like to get started
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with what dogs do you live with and what's your favorite thing
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about them? Yeah, well, I live with one dog
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physically. Lily, I don't know if you guys
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put this on video or not, but Lily's on the not.
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Usually but OK pictures. You guys can see.
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Lily, I live with one dog physically.
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Lily, she's about 8 years old. She's a rescue from the West
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County shelter in Phoenix. She was on the E list for skin
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issues. Her name was actually Katie at
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the shelter. So I just couldn't, I saw her
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and I just couldn't let her go down like that.
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So yeah, she's with me physically.
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And my favorite thing about Lily is she has this really like
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quiet confidence about her. Like, she's not the loudest dog
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in the room. She's not the craziest.
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She will get like goofy and quirky every once in a while,
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but like she is a rock solid dog.
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As you guys know, I foster cats and I've never had an issue.
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She has never met a dog she didn't like.
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OK, that's not true. One dog, but they snuck up on
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her and so she gave them a little like hey backup.
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But other than that, she's never met a dog or a person that she
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didn't like. She's just a rock star.
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And so it's really cool to have a dog like that.
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And then also spiritually, I'm always connected to Champ, my
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soul dog, who passed in November of 2023.
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And my favorite thing about Champ was he saw me through the
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hardest moments of my life. And he literally and, and you
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know, metaphorically, really never left my side.
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And even to this day, he hasn't left my side.
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He's still here every day, right next to me.
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I've been lucky enough, Terry. I know I feel emotional.
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I've been lucky enough to meet both Champ and Lily over the
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years, and they really are both such amazing dogs in their own
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right. And of course, you have a little
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foster Kitty right now, too. We should say animals.
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We just, I know, say dog. Yeah, that's awesome.
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So you have a little Artemis there.
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So if anyone's listening, that's looking for a Kitty.
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Yeah, and she's a great, great cat.
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She's like 3, maybe four years old.
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She is like a dilute torti, kind of like Gray caramel color.
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She's very, very cute and pretty.
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And she came with me because her owner passed away.
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And so she just really kind of slid right in into our dynamic.
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And and she's sweet and loving and also independent and does
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her own thing. So she we really like having her
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around. Yeah, nice.
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Yeah. And I will say Lily is Jackson
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approved. He's a big fan of Lily.
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So I mean. What's not to love?
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Like seriously. Yeah, yeah, she is.
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She is a rock star. I so interesting because you
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know, you guys know Champ and you know, he had some anxiety
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issues and kind of some fury activity and so he wasn't really
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a dog that I brought everywhere with me.
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You know, we did our kind of like solo little adventures and
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we would go out where nobody else was.
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But it is just a 180 to have a dog like Lily.
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And they they spent time together.
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And you have heard me say this and my followers on social media
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have heard me say this literally from day one.
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They were just thick as thieves and they were perfect together
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and it was a really beautiful thing to be able to see.
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Champ really, really love another dog.
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Yeah, it really, it was such a wonderful coming together with
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those two. And I remember you worrying and
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and you know, what do I do? What's right, What's wrong?
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But like, clearly everything happened the way it was meant
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to. And now Champ has stayed with
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you but also given you someone to physically support you after
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he was gone. So I love that.
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Yeah, yeah. Oh well, as we mentioned, you
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are the founder of Pause and Breathe and so can you tell us a
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little bit about it and what inspired you to start it?
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What was the original intention? Yeah, so pause and breathe
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started in April of well, officially started in April of
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2024. I have been a registered yoga
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teacher since 2018 and here and there between 2018 and now, I've
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done yoga fundraisers for a few different organizations.
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And I like I said earlier, Champ passed in November of 2023.
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And the inspiration, everything that I do behind Pause and
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Breathe is honoring his memory and building a legacy with his
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name. So I decided that I wanted to
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use Pause and Breathe as a way to raise money for rescues and
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animal welfare organizations pretty much in Arizona.
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I've done a couple of things for out of state organizations, but
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mostly here in Arizona. So yeah, it's just all about
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having Champs Legacy live on. Everybody that's been to an
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event of mine knows Champ and they know his story.
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And because I won't shut up, I won't stop talking about him.
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And so, yeah, the original intent has been yoga
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fundraisers, and it's really evolved and morphed into
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something so much more than that.
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But the yoga fundraisers are still there.
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And Heather and I have both benefited from your yoga, like
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being under your instruction in yoga, like it's amazing and.
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Yeah. Thank you.
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When did you realize that? You talked about it was morphing
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into something else. When did you realize that was
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happening? So, well, first of all, I didn't
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realize it would take off like it did.
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And it's been absolutely incredible.
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I will toot my own horn a little bit since or excuse me, since
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April of 2024, we've raised over $25,000 for animal welfare
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organizations that it's it's been really it's been really
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rewarding to be able to do it in a way that's just so fun and
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light and I just OK, I don't just show up and teach yoga,
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but. To me, it's like I'm just there
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the day of tomorrow. I have a fundraiser at almost
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there and it's puppy yoga and you know, like, yes, I've helped
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promote and everything like that, but I get to show up and I
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get to be with awesome people that all enjoy yoga and enjoy
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dogs and just teach some yoga and play with puppies and and
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have a good time. So that's just been really
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incredible. But in September of last year, I
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believe it was September, a friend of mine, her name is
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Natalie. She runs a company, an
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organization called Sunday mornings. her and I got together
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to offer a grief support event for pet loss.
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So she does a lot of grief education for like parent loss,
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family member loss, things like that.
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And then obviously I've lost champ.
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And so we got together and we decided we wanted to offer
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something a little bit different.
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And it was like a hybrid where we did a little bit of yoga, we
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did a little bit of meditation, she talked and did some grief
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education. And people were just able to
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really open up and share about their grief around either pet
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loss or just being in animal welfare in general.
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Because we get like, we all get it.
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Those of us who are involved in animal welfare, there's grief
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that comes with it, There's exhaustion, there's compassion
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fatigue, there's burnout, there's all of that.
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So we got together and we did that in September of last year.
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And it was just so incredibly healing, even for me to be
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around people who got it and who understood.
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And there weren't these platitudes and it wasn't like,
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well, they're in a better place. Like it was just like, I'm
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hurting, my heart hurts. I miss my animal or I'm sad
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about this dog that passed. And like we were able to just
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all be in it together. And I think in a world that in a
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society that really kind of overlooks grief, people have
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three days of bereavement after they lose someone from from
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their job. And so it just felt really
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affirming for everyone that was there, and obviously for myself
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as well. It, it is amazing in this
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fractured society how there can be these moments of community.
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And so it is so nice to feel that sense of community and
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especially in such a really, really difficult time.
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And I agree with you, the grief can come from so many different
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areas and then can layer on top of each other.
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So to kind of come together and just with your feelings.
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Totally. You can't hide from grief.
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The only thing to do is to process it and walk through it.
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That's it. It's coming for you.
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Like there's no way around it. Yes.
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No matter how far you try to push it away or any of that, at
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some point it's going to to catch up.
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Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. So you are now at the point
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where you say you're an end of life pet doula.
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So can you explain in more detail what that means?
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I actually, I mean, I've heard the name, the term doula before,
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but I've never heard this particular term until we started
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talking. So I just want you to kind of
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share with our listeners, what does that mean?
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How did this come about and how does that help people in a
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different way? Yeah.
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So this is going to be kind of like a meandering story a little
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bit. But a few years ago, I actually
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read a book about an end of life doula a a death doula, a lot of
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people call it and it resonated with me.
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So it it was a fiction. It was a novel, but it resonated
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with me so deeply. I am someone who death has been
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part of my life, my, my whole existence really.
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And it has been something that personally, I have revered more
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than I have feared. It's just been something that I
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recognize. It is part of life for all of
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us. We are all, you know, we live a
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cycle. And when that cycle ends, you
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know, we move on to the next stage, whatever that might be or
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whatever you personally believe. But this was a couple years that
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I read that book and I was like, wow, this is just such a
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powerful role for someone to take.
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And then that was even, that was before Champ passed.
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That was all of this. And then when Champ passed, it
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actually really cracked open a lot of like you were mentioning
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earlier, obviously grief for his loss, but other grief that I had
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not addressed throughout my life.
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And so I really needed support in that time.
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And I, I did have support and there was also something that
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felt like it was still missing. And so of course, I've, I've
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worked through a lot of stuff and really kind of came to this
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point where I like thought back to that experience and reading
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that book. And so I just started kind of
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looking into it like, what is this really like, how do you get
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certified? You know, what's the experience
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and then realize that there's a specific certification for, for
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pet loss. And so I took that
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certification. I learned all about it.
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And you know, it's, it's basically what a doula does,
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whether it's a birth doula or a death doula or a pet or
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whatever. It's the, it helps with the, you
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help with a transition. So what I do as an end of life
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pet doula is I help both the human and the animal pass
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through in the most dignified, easeful way.
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So if that means that I'm working with a human and their
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animal and they're like, they're struggling because their animal
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has cancer and they've got all of these that visits that they
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need to schedule and there's just so much going on that's
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just swirling around in their head.
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I can help them schedule those things and I can help them
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organize and we can sit down and we can make a plan for, you
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know, what is the maybe what does their transition look like?
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Do you want to create a ritual, right?
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Do you want to do it in home? Do you want to do it at the vet?
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Do you want to do it somewhere special and and sacred?
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So I really helped them almost with all of those logistics, but
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then offering that mental and emotional support that goes with
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it. I don't do you, I don't do
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euthanasia, right? I'm not a vet.
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I don't do the medical side of things, but I help with all like
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the tangible and then the mental and emotional side of things
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that that really moves that transition forward when they're
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ready, you know, when, when that because I don't make any of
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those decisions. That's up to the pet parent and
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and their animal. And I'm just there as a
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facilitator and a guide to make it the best transition.
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It can be in a really hard time. And then obviously Ioffer, you
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know, the grief support afterwards as well.
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Yeah, did I ramble? Was that hard to know?
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I'm thinking it all in. That's the thing, yeah.
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And. And I didn't even know that was
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available. At first of all, that's.
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That's I'm just thinking about how helpful that could be to
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people. Yeah, I'm going.
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Through that. Yeah, yeah.
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And when when times are hard and it's I will say with champs
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passing, I didn't really have a decision.
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You know, it just kind of came to it where it was like this is
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the most humane thing you can do is to relieve him of suffering.
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But you know, when people have a dog maybe who has cancer and
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they really toy with like when is the right time, I can be
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there again, not to make the decision before for them, but to
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kind of be a mirror and to just kind of say like, hey, this is
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where things are at. How are you feeling?
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You know, what's coming up for you to add some of that kind of
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mental and, and emotional support and just be someone that
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they can bounce things off of. Because, you know, you guys
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know, obviously in our circle there is support for pet loss,
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but generally, literally, it's known as disenfranchised grief
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because people are like, oh, there's it's just a pet, like
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just go get another one, you know?
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And it just, it's not like that for us, you know?
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Yeah, I I was thinking too that there is the benefit of the
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science that we have now and all of the options and medications
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and different treatments and everything.
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But then at the same time, that feels so overwhelming because
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you are constantly thinking, what could I do more?
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Should I try that? Wait, maybe that'll be a miracle
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or maybe that will get me 6 more months or it's so, so
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overwhelming. I went through that with my very
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first Rottweiler that I lost. I tried too many things.
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I wanted that miracle, right? And so I think that's really
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difficult too. And so to have someone help like
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manage all of those thoughts and those options and even just to
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have them them organized. Totally.
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Is such a huge piece of trying to navigate those those
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different decisions because it is hard.
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It's great. We have so many options, but
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sometimes so many options. It's not great.
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No, it's, it's, you get that decision fatigue, right, or
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analysis paralysis, like you said, where you want to make the
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right decision, but nobody knows what the right decision is.
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And ultimately, you know, I am a believer and, and this can be, I
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always want to be like mindful of, of how I say this because I
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know that it can be really hard to process.
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But like I am a believer that the animal will for, to the best
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of their ability, kind of be able to communicate when it's
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when it's time and when and when you are someone that's in that
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place and you're processing all of these things that are going
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on. It can be hard to receive that
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information 100% cuz you're just like, wait, did they tell me?
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Did they not like what's going on?
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And that that's completely understandable.
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And so it can be nice to have some eyes on it that are looking
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out. And obviously you can say
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objective, but like it's not objective.
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I'm a, I'm a human and I feel emotions and when somebody else
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loses a pet, I feel that too. But it can be helpful to have
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someone that's, you know, kind of able to say like, hey, this
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is what their day looks like. Do we feel like this is the
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quality of life that we want for them moving forward?
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And and what does that look like?
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So yeah. Yeah, I feel really lucky with
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Lucy that my vet was also my friend and she said I'm going to
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take off my vet hat and be your friend who happens to be a vet
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right now. Yeah, and she said it's going to
18:53
get ugly and it's going to be quick and you need to make the
18:56
appointment. Yeah.
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And I would have struggled with like, OK, I I'm gonna make more
19:04
appointments and see if I can get her healthy again.
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And maybe it's just this one more thing.
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And she was just like, this is the end of the road from us.
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And I was like, oh, OK. And in a, in that moment, I
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needed her to be that friend who happened to be a vet and be
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like, it's gonna get really ugly.
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And you don't want that. I know I've been on this journey
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with you. And I know.
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I will say that that can be so hard to hear.
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And also I think it can be the most compassionate thing that
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someone decides to say to us. My own experience with Champ, we
19:45
were at the emergency vet. Champ had a hemangiosarcoma that
19:49
we, we believe that's what it was.
19:50
And it ended up bursting. And I remember being at the
19:53
emergency vet and being like, OK, we're going to put the
19:56
needle in. We're going to get all the fluid
19:58
out. We're going to try to get him a
19:59
few more days so I can bring him home and we can do all the
20:01
things and honestly like the the.
20:05
The best thing that the vet could have done, she did.
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And she sat and she looked at me and I'm like tearing up.
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And she had so much respect. And she just said you wouldn't
20:15
be wrong for choosing humane euthanasia, right?
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And it was just like the validation that I needed because
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I was like, what if I don't try harder?
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What if I don't do this? What if my whole family doesn't
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get to say goodbye? And she was just like, none of
20:28
that matters, right? Like what matters is the dog in
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front of you, and the dog in front of you is suffering.
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And like, I love Champ more than anything.
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I would die. I would have died for Champ.
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But so like, taking away his suffering was the best decision
20:44
I could have made in that moment.
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Well. This episode definitely gets a
20:50
tear warning. I'm.
20:52
Like did we do a trigger warning, tear warning?
20:56
We'll go back and record that for the front.
20:59
Good idea. I, I think that my own
21:05
experience with Link, which was my first adult dog of my own,
21:11
and I'm sure if people are listeners, they know I, I let it
21:15
go too long and jeez Louise. OK.
21:22
That's been a lot and it's been a long time.
21:24
Yeah, but we were new to Arizona.
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I didn't have a trusted vet. I didn't have the wonderful
21:30
people in my life that I have now.
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And I was really going alone. I mean, my husband, but he he
21:37
doesn't read the science. He doesn't know like he he's the
21:41
pet guy. He's the I pet you as 1000 times
21:45
a day guy. And so and he link was only 6
21:50
years old and so I was just fighting that right.
21:56
And the biggest lesson that for me that I came away with from
22:01
that experience was I will always rather be a day too early
22:06
than a day too late. And I don't know how many times
22:10
I have given that advice. I just gave it what, 2 weeks ago
22:14
to our friend and I stand by that, you know, because if you
22:20
have the opportunity to not have that terrible end that your vet
22:25
was guiding you through, Christy, like sometimes you
22:29
can't, there's nothing you can do about it.
22:31
It happens. But if you have the chance, they
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give us so much, you know, they do that.
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I just, I walk with that lesson for the rest of my life.
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Yeah, it's the least, it's honestly the least that we can
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do. And you know, and and again,
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this can be hard to hear, but, and I think about this with
22:52
fostering too. And obviously like, you know,
22:55
saying goodbye to a foster, that level of grief versus saying
22:58
goodbye to an owned. I don't OK, not owned, but you
23:02
guys know what I mean. That's not the word I want to
23:03
use, but yes. You know you're a person.
23:08
Like the grief that that that comes up, but like we have to be
23:13
the ones that suffer and hurt so they don't have to.
23:17
And that's so hard to hear and it's so hard to come to grips
23:20
with. But like, like I said, I would
23:24
die for champ. And so carrying this sadness and
23:27
grief with me, it's just something I'm going to do for
23:30
the rest of my life. And, and I did it so that he
23:34
didn't have to have prolonged suffering because he just wasn't
23:37
himself. And I saw that like we were at
23:41
the vet and I, we were at veg. And so it's like that big open
23:44
concept. There were dogs all around us.
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And like I said earlier, Champ was a very anxious, fear
23:49
reactive dog. He was laying on the ground
23:52
doing nothing. And I was like, this isn't my
23:54
dog, you know. So it was like, I think he had
23:57
already started to make his transition and so it was just
24:01
time for his physical body to to catch up.
24:04
And so I carry the pain. So he didn't.
24:07
He didn't have to suffer anymore.
24:09
Yeah, well, if we can lighten things a little.
24:12
Bit that's a good idea. So how did you make the
24:17
connection between yoga and meditation and then using those
24:20
tools to help people work through grief?
24:22
You mentioned the connection you made with your friend Natalie.
24:25
Was that really where it started or, you know, was it a process?
24:30
I mean, it's that, like I said, it's, it's definitely been a
24:32
process. Death and and grief has been
24:35
part of my life since I was about two years old.
24:39
And so I think it's something that's always been ingrained in
24:42
me without really without really even knowing until champs
24:45
passing. Before I left my job to pursue
24:49
pause and breathe even more deeply, I was working with
24:51
people with chronic chronic health conditions and chronic
24:54
illness. I have a background in physical
24:56
therapy. I have a certification in
24:58
applied neuroscience. I'm a trauma informed yoga
25:00
teacher and trauma informed coach.
25:02
And so really all of this stuff has like to me been culminating
25:06
up until this point. And I personally, as I started
25:11
diving into grief work since chant passed, have just, I'm one
25:15
of those people that when I latch on to something, I just
25:18
like want to learn every single thing about it.
25:20
And something that has been really helpful for me is somatic
25:25
practices, which somatic somatics is like a newer term.
25:29
And basically it comes from ancient yoga.
25:32
And I've been a yoga teacher for a long time.
25:34
And so I, I started to kind of in my own practice, understand
25:40
and develop like how can I use yoga and somatic practices to
25:44
help kind of heal my grief, open my heart after pain and things
25:49
like that. And so they really go hand in
25:51
hand. And then I've used meditation
25:54
as, as more of like a way to connect.
25:57
So with my, I have, I have like an online grief offerings.
26:01
And so I have like these meditations that people can use
26:05
and a lot of them are like these immersion visualizations where
26:08
you can imagine yourself like walking this path with your pet
26:12
and and being able to create that connection.
26:15
You know, if it can't be physical, we can create the
26:17
connection spiritually and connect with them that way.
26:20
So I have used yoga as a healing tool since 2012 and it just felt
26:26
like this was kind of like the next step and next evolution in
26:30
my own healing journey. And when I started to do that, I
26:33
was like, wow, this can be really helpful for for other
26:37
people as well. Awesome.
26:38
Are there other tools that you recommend for people who are
26:41
navigating grief as well? Yeah, Yeah.
26:44
One of the things that has been really helpful for me is I don't
26:48
know if I want to call it art therapy, but something similar,
26:52
being creative has been really, really helpful for me.
26:56
It's just sitting down and, and again, it could be creative,
26:59
something tied to your animal. Like I've written poems about
27:04
Champ and I've colored pictures and things, you know, like did
27:07
rocks and written his name on them and things like that.
27:10
So being creative has been really, really helpful for me.
27:14
And then also just like developing kind of rituals.
27:17
And I will say that especially this, but a lot of what I do,
27:22
these are ancient practices, like these are practices that
27:26
indigenous people have been doing for eons.
27:29
And us in the West are just finally recognizing that they
27:33
can be powerful and helpful. So I do want to say I didn't
27:36
invent any of this stuff. A lot of this is just from
27:40
research and understanding that I've done.
27:42
And so really rituals, obviously, like I have a little
27:45
altar for Champ and I'll light a candle and I'll say a prayer and
27:49
I'll just connect with him. Literally every morning I say
27:51
good morning to Champ. Every night I say goodnight to
27:54
him. I have, I have decided to
27:57
continue to allow him to be part of my physical reality, even if
28:02
he's not here physically. And for me, that's been a really
28:05
healing thing. Yeah.
28:08
Sometimes grief pops up in unexpected areas, like for
28:11
Heather and I in this podcast. But apparently, yeah.
28:17
Would you mind sharing how that happened for you when it came
28:20
time for you to buy a new vehicle?
28:22
Ohh yes yeah, so the. Story.
28:26
This one resonates deeply. Back in July, I had a plan to
28:33
take a road trip with Lily up to Montana, which is where I'm
28:36
from. And when we got closer to it, I
28:39
took my, I had a 2008 Ford Escape and I have been driving
28:43
it since about 2019 and an old girl, but God, I just, I love, I
28:48
loved her. I still love her.
28:49
But anyway, we took her in to do like a full checkup to make sure
28:52
it was safe to drive. And ultimately it came back and
28:55
the mechanic just said, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't drive this
28:58
car up there, especially it was just me and Lily.
29:01
And they're like, we just wouldn't feel safe having you do
29:03
that. And so the decision was, or the,
29:06
the process was either pay a ton of money to do all these repairs
29:10
on a really old car or buy a new car.
29:13
And when it first came down to it, I recognize that I really
29:17
kind of like blocked any of the grief that I was feeling out and
29:20
I was just like in go mode. I was like, we have this trip.
29:23
We got to get this car, we got to do all this kind of stuff.
29:25
And then I slowed down and I recognized that the anxiety that
29:33
I was feeling. And, you know, what I was really
29:36
going through was this grief because this car I had been
29:41
driving Champ in it for, you know, five years.
29:45
And his hair was all over it and Drew was all over it.
29:49
And like we had gone on so many adventures together, we'd gone
29:53
to Flagstaff multiple times, we'd gone to Payson and Pine
29:56
together. Like we had done so many amazing
29:59
things in this car and getting rid of it felt like another
30:06
piece of getting rid of champ, right?
30:08
It felt like when I get rid of this car, I'm I'm losing, you
30:12
know, part of my connection to my dog.
30:14
And so there was a lot of anxiety, like I initially went
30:17
into fight or flight, just get it done.
30:19
And then there was just like a lot of anxiety, a lot of
30:21
overwhelm. And when I finally allowed
30:24
myself to slow down, it really was, I was just recognizing like
30:27
it was just this grief because this was another thing that we
30:30
had had. And it's just like, it's just
30:33
recognizing that time moves forward, right?
30:36
That even after we lose someone, the world continues to move on.
30:41
And even we can't avoid continuing to move on, right?
30:44
We can't stay in this bubble forever without moving forward,
30:49
without evolving, without ever having to get a new car, sell a
30:52
house or any of those types of things.
30:55
And so it was a pretty big slap in the face that I that I felt.
31:00
But what I will say is when I went to because Lily and I did
31:03
end up doing our road trip and it was really incredible and we
31:06
brought champ with us and like it was a whole, it was just
31:09
really beautiful. What I will say is when I went
31:12
to take, I had like a big, not like a tart, but you know those
31:15
things that you can put in the back of the car that covers the
31:17
back seats and everything. So I had one of those in the
31:20
back of the scape and when I went to put it in the Forester,
31:23
I shook it out, turned it over. I didn't know which side was up
31:26
and put it on the seats. And all I saw was all this white
31:30
hair from Champ, like just like Champ's hair all over.
31:33
I was like, he's with us, you know, like he's on this trip
31:36
with us. He's like, I'm not getting left
31:38
behind. Exactly.
31:40
He's like, I'm guiding this whole thing.
31:42
And so, you know, I may have had to get rid of the vehicle, but
31:46
he's he didn't go anywhere. He's still with us every day.
31:49
Yeah. I think we as humans, we just
31:53
motor through, you know, we're just like push through, push
31:57
through, push through. And those moments catch us off
32:01
guard and they pop in out of nowhere when in reality, they're
32:06
not popping in out of nowhere. They were.
32:09
They were always there. We were.
32:11
Just motoring along. And it's when you posted about
32:15
that, I read that and I just was like, oh, so I feel this so
32:21
deeply. I mean, it is, I have little
32:26
Tiago fur in my cell phone case. And I know people see it and
32:31
they're like biting like, what? And I'm like, oh, it's just
32:35
there. You know.
32:37
He's still here, but he's with me.
32:39
And someday that's going to mean a lot to me, you know, And I
32:42
shared with you a story about how my mom always bought
32:46
moisturizer for me 4 containers at a time at Christmas or
32:50
whenever. And so after she passed, I had a
32:54
plethora, let's just say years of moisturizer.
32:59
And then finally, probably three years after she was gone, I used
33:03
the last one. And that was so hard.
33:06
And I still have the empty container because I just for me,
33:10
that is a small thing that is, it really means so much.
33:14
And while I don't know that it's everyone's journey is different
33:18
and I don't, I don't need to have physical things all around
33:21
me. Think it is important that if
33:24
something is super special that you hold on to that for as long
33:28
as it serves you. And I was thinking about this
33:32
episode last night and I was thinking, am I ready to like let
33:37
go of that container? It's been 11 years.
33:40
And I said no, I'm not. And you don't have to be.
33:44
You don't have to be. Yeah, You might never be ready.
33:47
And and that's I just. I just think the world asks us
33:52
to move on from these losses. And I, I am not.
33:56
It's like it's not about moving on.
33:58
I'm gonna carry it with me. We carry it with us.
34:00
And there's literally nothing wrong with any of that.
34:05
And, and I, I kind of go, I don't even say the world.
34:08
I mean like our western culture, because if you go into like
34:13
eastern cultures and they're, they, they keep their dead with
34:16
them. This is really morbid.
34:17
But like, they keep dead bodies with them or they, or they bury
34:21
them in their backyard. Like there's, we are so quick in
34:24
the West to just pretend it didn't happen, pretend it didn't
34:27
happen, right? And it's like, no, this happened
34:30
and this is part of the human existence is pain and loss.
34:35
And we don't need to wallow in it.
34:37
You don't need to sit in it all day every day.
34:39
But if you want to keep the moisturizing cream or if you
34:42
want to, you know, or if you want to keep some of their fur
34:46
or whatever it looks like God like, if that's the thing that
34:50
gets you by, by all means, please, you know.
34:54
When I was at your house, Christy, I saw your little
34:58
picture of Lucy with her collar, and I just, like, sat there for
35:02
a moment and. And remembered.
35:05
Yeah. And I, I just love that there's
35:08
little things like that around us.
35:10
Even though they're still with us.
35:12
There are things that remind us. Oh yeah, the photos are oh,
35:15
they're so helpful. I will never remember when
35:18
Christy and I we took Champ and Lucy out to have photos.
35:24
Thinking about. Lucy's ear off like it was just.
35:29
Lucy was like drugged because. She not feeling well.
35:34
Drugged because she had surgery on her ear.
35:38
And so she was on these like pain meds and she was a little
35:40
drugged, but she was convinced Champ wanted to be her friend.
35:45
And normally she was so good at reading other dogs, but she was
35:48
like, hey buddy, Champ was like, we are not best friends.
35:55
Champ was like, you're being a little bit much right now.
35:58
I'm not. Like wish for her.
36:01
Yeah, he just. Was like, no, we'll still be
36:03
best friends, don't worry. Totally.
36:05
She was like. The drunk girl at the bar trying
36:07
to hit on the Q4. And honestly, under different
36:10
circumstances, I think they would have been fine.
36:13
I feel like I remember there was like a Husky that we walked by
36:16
that was kind of like making some whatever.
36:18
But nonetheless, Champ never really knew how to communicate
36:23
very well, so I always had to be quick, very quick.
36:26
My hands cuz he got he was close.
36:29
It was, yeah, it was very. They were close, the.
36:31
Photographer actually accidentally took a picture of
36:34
that. Oh, I don't know if I ever saw
36:37
that. Yeah, like it's it's champ
36:40
lunging you on the leash and then hilarious blithfully
36:45
unaware. Yeah, yeah.
36:47
I mean like. Oh, my fan.
36:51
I loved that dog. And I loved Lucy.
36:53
Lucy was such a good. She was such a good dog.
36:57
Yeah. I know.
36:59
And with all our OG dogs. I know.
37:02
So many Ogs. Yeah.
37:06
I know I'm going to do it. Christy, we don't have this on
37:09
the list of questions, but can we?
37:12
I know, right? But of course, I'm going to ask
37:15
this one. And then you'll be like, of
37:16
course, can we talk for a moment about anticipatory, anticipate,
37:21
say it for me. Anticipatory.
37:24
Thank you. Agree.
37:25
Because I experienced that so hardcore.
37:29
Yeah. So I'm so glad you asked this,
37:32
Heather, because I was like, how can I fit that question in?
37:36
Because I really want to ask Kate about it.
37:38
I never had that with Lucy. I just lived in the moment with
37:43
Lucy. But already I can see with
37:47
Jackson, it's really this. I'm like, well, what happens
37:51
when he gets older and he can't do sports?
37:53
How does what does our relationship look like?
37:55
Like I'm already anticipating that.
37:58
And I'm like, just live in the moment.
37:59
What is wrong with you? You've told everybody just live
38:02
in the moment for so long. Christy, you are finally
38:06
understanding the terror that I have lived for the last.
38:10
So human. I don't like it.
38:12
Oh, we have a stop at 8:00. Yeah.
38:14
Well, and I think that because I, I didn't really, I mean, I
38:19
didn't, I was always aware of champs mortality, but I never
38:25
never, I always envisioned that champ would I, you can ask some
38:31
of my my closer friends that I told.
38:33
I always had this vision of champ getting to the point where
38:35
he couldn't really go on walks anymore.
38:37
So I would pull him in a little wagon.
38:39
Like I really had that vision. And so I, I really didn't have a
38:45
lot of anticipatory grief, or at least it wasn't paralyzing.
38:48
I was, I was aware of his mortality.
38:50
I knew he was going to go someday, but it never really
38:52
kept me from living in the present moment.
38:54
But I do think once you experience it, you know, that's
39:00
when you're like, because even with Lily, I took Lily on a walk
39:04
yesterday and one of my neighbors, she said hi or
39:07
whatever. And Lily's starting to get like
39:09
the Gray under her muzzle here. And since she's a black dog,
39:11
like you can really see it. And she's like, oh, she's such
39:14
an old dog. And I was like, skee skeeze you.
39:20
Lily is an an infant first of. All like that's the baby.
39:26
And so I can definitely recognize that feeling because I
39:30
feel that I feel that with Lily too.
39:32
And she's had more health issues, nothing like concerning,
39:35
but she's got all of her really bad skin allergy.
39:37
She's had a TPLO. And so, you know, she seems to
39:40
be a little bit more fragile in that way.
39:44
And I think I guess ultimately a, it's part of the experience.
39:50
It's part of being human to anticipate loss and to be aware
39:55
of our of our animals mortality, of our own mortality.
39:58
Because I think that that what we can do instead of or not even
40:05
instead of, but in conjunction with feeling overwhelm and
40:09
feeling sadness is also let it be a motivator to kind of be
40:13
like helping them live the best life that they can, which I
40:17
think you're really doing that with Jackson.
40:19
He is a sport dog like that is. You know, and I think that
40:24
you're doing everything you can to help him live his best life,
40:29
so to speak. And I think that's something
40:31
that you can give yourself grace for and also recognize, oh, what
40:37
is my identity or what is our identity together as a pair?
40:41
When he does get to that point, I don't think there's anything
40:44
wrong with thinking about those things because I think as
40:48
humans, when we when we think about our own mortality, we can
40:53
then decide, wow, I'm going to die someday.
40:55
I want to live the best life that I can.
40:58
You know what I mean? When I think about it with
41:02
Tiago, I just breathe him in. Yeah, like physically.
41:06
Yeah, stick your face in his belly like.
41:09
Oh my, the back of his neck and just like, but it is something
41:13
that at times is paralyzing to me.
41:15
And I I don't know if, I mean, we have had so many great dogs
41:22
in our lives and over the years. It's not to take it away from
41:30
any of those relationships, but I waited so long for my one
41:35
right. And so I think as I do
41:38
apparently in my life all the time, I put a little pressure on
41:42
that. But then I think when he now
41:48
having him and it feeling like it's flying by as life does,
41:53
it's just trying take every moment that I have, you know,
41:58
but it is definitely something that weighs on me.
42:02
So I think it's, I did not know you were feeling that way,
42:05
Christy. I know we've had a couple weeks
42:09
in a row of these epiphanies. Epiphanies.
42:14
God, you would think we do like don't even talk in between us or
42:18
something in this. Case.
42:22
Just a whole lot of honesty on these.
42:24
Yeah, yeah. And I just think with
42:27
anticipatory grief, I really think it's OK to allow it and to
42:32
get and to just give yourself grace in the process and to just
42:37
in those moments like, yes, breathe into your dog, but also
42:41
like into yourself and just kind of like recognize, like, what do
42:44
I need in this moment? Do I need to take Jackson out
42:47
and like throw the ball a few times or take him on a long line
42:50
sniff walk or, you know, or do I just need to stick my face in
42:54
his, you know, in his belly? And I do that with Lily a lot.
42:57
Lily's since she has skin issues.
43:00
She's kind of yeasty smelling but I.
43:03
Love it so. I think, I think it's important,
43:08
yes, to reflect on what do they need to live their best life,
43:12
but also like, what do I need for our relationship to be the
43:16
strongest it can be. But here's the thing, it's never
43:19
going to be foolproof. You're never not going to have
43:21
regrets when we get to the end of our pets lives.
43:24
We're always going to want more time.
43:27
I don't always, you know, So always giving yourself grace
43:31
when it comes to that too. There are never enough days.
43:35
Never, never. I just recently had it was a
43:39
totally different conversation but I felt I feel like it it
43:43
spans across multiple subjects. I was talking to a vet about
43:47
agility sports and some rules I was putting in place for my
43:51
dog's health and she said at the end of the day you have to go
43:56
with your own gut. And however that turns out, you
44:00
need to be OK with it because you've done the most with the
44:04
information that you have. Probably.
44:07
And I was like, Oh yeah, that's that's something to hold on to
44:11
across subjects. Absolutely.
44:15
And, and just like in the current climate that we're
44:19
living in, we can only do so much, right?
44:23
We can only do I think about that with Lily's allergies all
44:27
the time because she's on a very like, strict and specific diet.
44:31
And sometimes I feel sad because, you know, we'll go
44:34
somewhere and people are like, oh, does she want to treat?
44:35
And I'm like, that's gonna blow her skin up.
44:38
Like, I can't do that. And it's just like, and I also,
44:42
you know, there's the financial aspect of how much your food
44:45
costs and, you know, Cytopoint injection and Apoquel and all
44:48
that stuff. And it's like we can only do so
44:52
much, you know? And they live.
44:55
I mean, Christy, I have no doubt that Jackson lives the best life
44:58
with you and Heather, all your parts, you know?
45:02
Yeah. Like.
45:04
Thiago, 75 years, that's what we're going for.
45:08
I, we, I've talked about that with Kara so many times.
45:12
Lily is the glue that is holding us together.
45:16
Now, so she. Needs to outlive us, you know,
45:19
pressure. Yeah, pressure at.
45:20
All Oh my gosh, I know that and a lot of our listeners who are
45:27
dog people will understand the term of trigger stacking.
45:30
We talk about it a lot with our dogs.
45:33
Can you explain for anybody who doesn't know what it is and how
45:37
we apply that to humans and their grief and what that means?
45:42
Yeah, so trigger stacking, right.
45:44
We use that term in, you know, working with dogs and I mean
45:49
most animals in humans, I would I would use the term nervous
45:52
system dysregulation, right, or going over threshold.
45:56
So, you know, let's say you are driving to work and traffic is
46:00
really bad. So that's the first thing that
46:02
stresses you out and you're just annoyed by it.
46:04
And then you get to work and you can't find any parking or like
46:07
someone stole your parking spot. And so then you go a little bit
46:10
higher and then the next thing you know, you spill your coffee
46:13
and then and you get into work and there's all of these things
46:16
that happened before that. And someone comes up to you and
46:19
asks you for something. And you're like, just like, just
46:21
leave me alone, right? The person that asks you the
46:24
question, they know nothing about what just happened before
46:27
this. But there's all of these little
46:28
things that are stacking up to dysregulate your nervous system.
46:31
And I mean, I would say the best way to describe that in grief is
46:36
often like the compound grief, right?
46:39
Where you work in or you volunteer in animal welfare or
46:43
whatever it might be. And you're, you know, seeing all
46:46
this stuff happening in the world and all the cruelty that's
46:48
happening to animals. And then you've got all the
46:51
things going on in your own personal life that you have to
46:54
take care of and all the other things that are happening into
46:56
the world, in the world, you know?
46:58
And then something happens. This happens to me not all the
47:02
time, but it happens when there's like just this straw
47:05
that breaks the camel's back. And often the first thing that
47:09
my brain goes to is I just miss Champ.
47:13
And I just want Champ here because when things got
47:16
overwhelming in my life before, he was the dog.
47:20
Lily is an incredible dog. We have a great relationship.
47:22
It's not the same as my relationship with Champ.
47:24
Champ is the dog that when I was in my deepest depression, I
47:29
would be laying in bed for 48 hours straight.
47:31
The only Champ would leave is to go outside, go to the bathroom,
47:34
and then he would come back and get back in bed.
47:37
So when I have all these triggers stacking up and I'm
47:40
worried about, you know, money and I'm worried about Lily's
47:43
health and I'm worried about the state of the world and I'm
47:46
worried about all the animals, you know what, the shelter and
47:48
all that. When I tip, when I go over
47:51
threshold, I am like, I just want champ back.
47:55
And, and all that to say again, that's a normal response.
48:00
We think we're over the grief. We, we or we think we should be
48:05
right. It's been X amount of years
48:07
since my pet passed. But then you get to this point
48:10
where your nervous system becomes dysregulated.
48:12
Then that's often the thing that it turns to is it just wants the
48:17
dog back. It just wants the person back.
48:19
It wants that thing back That helped regulate the nervous
48:24
system. I find too that when like you
48:29
said you just want champ back, if I experience a loss then it
48:34
is compounded on top of the biggest loss of my life which is
48:39
losing my mom. So we recently had a good friend
48:44
pass away in our dog sport community very tragically and
48:49
here, you know, here and gone and it hit all of us so hard.
48:55
And then for me personally, I re grieve losing my mom.
49:02
And so I think that that's something to be aware of too,
49:06
that it's completely normal and that anything those wounds are
49:11
deep and that anything that has any sort of relation or even not
49:17
just the feeling of grief will have you revisit those things.
49:22
And they do stack on top of each other.
49:24
For sure. And it's normal.
49:26
Yeah. I mean, death, death and loss
49:28
are considered traumatic events. And trauma does rewire the
49:32
nervous system. That's been scientifically
49:34
proven. And so exactly.
49:37
I just recently had a very good friend lose a dog on expectedly
49:40
and very similar to how Champ went, and I was lucky enough
49:45
that I was able to be with her during that time and the whole
49:49
week after that I was completely spent.
49:52
Like, I didn't want to get out of bed.
49:53
I didn't want to do anything. Like my nervous system was
49:56
absolutely shot from experiencing her like someone
50:01
you deeply love, watching them go through a loss and then
50:05
feeling that that almost like story play over again in your
50:09
own life. Very normal to.
50:12
I mean, again, we're human and we and especially people in in
50:15
the animal world, like we feel deeply, you know, And so when
50:20
those things happen, you're gonna you're gonna feel it.
50:23
Absolutely, yeah. If people need support or are
50:28
looking to connect with you, where can they find you?
50:31
Yeah, so the best ways to find me, I mean, I have a website,
50:35
it's pause and breatheaz.com. You can find me there up on like
50:39
the very top or the little drop down menu.
50:41
There's a tab for grief support. I think it's actually the tab is
50:45
called Pet Loss Resources. I have a lot of resources.
50:48
I have a lot of things that I have made, whether it's if
50:51
you're a meditation person and you want a guided meditation or
50:55
I have a whole like 60 minute course on pet loss grief and how
50:58
you can start navigating that in your own life.
51:01
I have ebooks if you're, you know, I really created it.
51:04
So there's something for every level and where everybody is at.
51:08
I also do monthly grief circles and they're virtual so anybody
51:11
can, can join them. And if they're it's all donation
51:14
based because I, I want grief support to be accessible,
51:18
especially when you say goodbye to a pet that can be a very
51:21
pricey experience. So there's.
51:24
That need to pay the bills. Totally.
51:26
And survive, yes. Take care of Lily.
51:29
That's why I don't do it for free.
51:31
But yeah. And then people can also find me
51:33
on Instagram, which is pause and breathe AZ They're they're the
51:36
same. And yeah, those are those are
51:38
the best ways to connect if you're in the Phoenix area.
51:41
I'm always doing again, yoga fundraisers and things like
51:44
that. So if you ever want to come to 1
51:45
and just connect and chat about things, I love hearing about
51:51
people's animals. I near the beginning of this
51:54
year, I actually it should be here soon.
51:56
I created an Oracle deck that features dogs of people in the
52:01
community, family friends, a lot of our friends that you and I
52:05
know. And in order to create it, I had
52:08
people send picture of their animals, the things they taught
52:10
them and things like that. So I was able to read about
52:14
every person's animal and probably about like, I would say
52:17
probably 50% had already past and 50% are still Earth side.
52:21
And it was just so healing for me to read all of these stories
52:24
and then turn that into something that people can use in
52:29
in their own rituals or meditation or, or whatever that
52:33
looks like for them. So I always want to hear
52:35
people's stories. I always want to hear about
52:37
people's people's pets. Yeah.
52:40
I highly recommend if you are in the Phoenix area and can join
52:44
Kate in person, do it. And even if you can't join
52:47
virtual because your voice throughout a yoga practice is so
52:54
grounding and calming, it is it is an experience everyone should
53:01
have truly. I mean, I have come to some of
53:04
your classes. The last one I went to at
53:06
Arizona Canine it, it just shifted everything for me and
53:11
was I came away feeling so peaceful.
53:13
So I just wanted to say that like it, it really is the way
53:17
you practice is, is a gift. Thank you.
53:20
I appreciate that. Yeah, agree with that, 100.
53:23
Percent Yeah, well, we certainly appreciate you joining us and
53:28
we. The.
53:29
Work the work you're doing too. Yes, Oh my gosh, and and
53:34
teaching all of our listeners and us about this.
53:37
I I feel like it's newer, but it also seems like it should have
53:41
always been here, like we all love and so our pets so much and
53:47
and support wherever we can get it is certainly needed.
53:49
So thank you for joining us. Oh my God, thank you guys so
53:53
much for having me and just helping me kind of share this.
53:56
You're right, it it's there. There are offerings in pet lost
54:01
reef support, but just not enough.
54:03
And I think they can be kind of hard to find.
54:06
And so it just, when I decided to do this, it just felt
54:10
necessary, you know, So I'm really grateful that you guys
54:13
are, you guys just had me to kind of spread the word a little
54:16
bit. Yeah.
54:18
If you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and share us
54:23
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54:27
and engage with us at Sometimes Their Side Eye.
54:30
Thanks for listening everybody. Talk to you next time.
54:33
Bye bye.