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MESSAGE TO BONDI: RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES! You promised, NOW DELIVER! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Breaking news tonight.
0:07
Speaker 2: Message to Bondie, Pam Bondie, the US Attorney General release
0:15
Speaker 2: the files, the Jeffrey Epstein files in case you need clarification, Bondie, you.
0:22
Speaker 3: Promised, now deliver. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:27
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us, joining
0:30
Speaker 2: me now an all star panel to make sense of
0:32
Speaker 2: what we are learning. Tonight, Dylan Howard is with US
0:36
Speaker 2: investigative journalist and author of Epstein Dead Man, Tell No Tales.
0:39
Speaker 3: But first I'd like you to listen to this.
0:43
Speaker 4: What you're going to see hopefully tomorrow is a lot
0:48
Speaker 4: of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot of information.
0:51
Speaker 4: But it's pretty sick what.
0:54
Speaker 3: That man did.
0:55
Speaker 4: A source had told me where the documents were being
0:59
Speaker 4: kept southern to strict of New York's shock. So we
1:02
Speaker 4: got them all by, hopefully all of them Friday at
1:05
Speaker 4: eight am, thousands of pages of documents. I have the
1:07
Speaker 4: FBI going through them. Director of Patel is going to
1:10
Speaker 4: get us a detailed report as to why the FBI
1:15
Speaker 4: withheld all of those documents.
1:17
Speaker 2: From my friends at Fox twenty five, Dylan Howard, that
1:20
Speaker 2: was Pam Bondy, the US Attorney General, promising, and I've
1:26
Speaker 2: got so many clips of her promising out the Ying Yang,
1:30
Speaker 2: promising the release of the Epstein files, and at that
1:33
Speaker 2: point blaming the hold up on the Southern District of
1:36
Speaker 2: New York, which I accepted. I accepted that at the
1:38
Speaker 2: time I had no reason to disbelieve her or to
1:41
Speaker 2: believe a nefarious intent on anyone's mind, anyone including the
1:47
Speaker 2: Southern District. But now, really, she just referred to thousands
1:53
Speaker 2: and thousands and thousands of pages of files, and now
1:57
Speaker 2: we're being told there's nothing in there. Were not releasing them.
2:00
Speaker 2: If there's nothing in there, why not release them? Mister Howard, Well,
2:04
Speaker 2: this is.
2:04
Speaker 5: A cover up of epic proportions, and not just because
2:08
Speaker 5: of the national discord over the last week. That is
2:12
Speaker 5: President Donald Trump's alleged ties to Jeffrey Epstein's No, we've
2:16
Speaker 5: known that for decades, and we've known that they had
2:18
Speaker 5: a friendship leading up to Epstein's two thousand and five
2:22
Speaker 5: investigation in Florida. Now, Trump obviously campaigned on a desire
2:28
Speaker 5: for transparency. This is the antithesis of it. The reality
2:33
Speaker 5: was that what was released in that so called phase
2:36
Speaker 5: one of epstein files being dumped on the American public
2:40
Speaker 5: was nothing new. What we know is that there are
2:44
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of documents related to Epstein that the
2:49
Speaker 5: Southern District of New York, a division of the Department
2:54
Speaker 5: of Justice, and the FBI are refusing to release. How
2:59
Speaker 5: do we know that because one of the news outlets
3:01
Speaker 5: that I own, Radar Online, first sued in twenty seventeen
3:08
Speaker 5: the FBI for a full and frank disclosure of these
3:12
Speaker 5: documents related to that two thousand and five case in Florida.
3:17
Speaker 5: At the time, Nancy, we were stonewalled. Believe it or not,
3:21
Speaker 5: the Southern District of New York invoked Jeffrey Epstein's privacy
3:26
Speaker 5: rights over those of the dozens of victims at the
3:30
Speaker 5: center of that case in Florida. Then Epstein dies. Was
3:35
Speaker 5: it suicide or was it murder? Still, the Southern District
3:40
Speaker 5: of New York wouldn't release the files. Fast forward to
3:44
Speaker 5: last year and a US judge in the Southern District
3:49
Speaker 5: hands down a verdict against the news outlet, Radar Online
3:54
Speaker 5: the news. The verdict there was that the information containing
3:57
Speaker 5: those files could jeopardize any potential appeal of Epstein's accomplice
4:02
Speaker 5: Gislaying Maxwell. Well, that is now under appeal, and what
4:06
Speaker 5: is evident in now recently filed appeal is that there
4:10
Speaker 5: are more than eleven thousand documents that have not been
4:13
Speaker 5: released to the public around this child sex trafficking ring.
4:19
Speaker 5: And one must ask themselves at this hour is the
4:24
Speaker 5: rights of Jeffrey Epstein and Gislaying Maxwell being protected over
4:29
Speaker 5: those of what the DOJ has now said are more
4:33
Speaker 5: than one thousand victims of the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking ring.
4:39
Speaker 2: I'm very curious as to why the documents are not
4:44
Speaker 2: being disclosed now. Dylan Howard, you suggest a nefarious relationship
4:49
Speaker 2: between Trump and Epstein. Many celebrities take photos that later
4:55
Speaker 2: they wish they hadn't taken. Photos alone. Do not decay
5:01
Speaker 2: wrongdoing on behalf of Trump. But I will tell you
5:05
Speaker 2: what is a smoking gun to me? We were told
5:10
Speaker 2: the documents would be released. Now we're being told there's
5:15
Speaker 2: nothing to see. If there's nothing to see, why not
5:20
Speaker 2: release them? Who if anyone is being no.
5:24
Speaker 3: Naty, I'm not go ahead, please.
5:26
Speaker 5: No Nazi. I'm not suggesting an afarious link between Trump
5:29
Speaker 5: and Epstein. What I'm saying is that there has been
5:31
Speaker 5: a search for an afarious link between Trump and Epstein.
5:35
Speaker 5: But I think that it obscures somewhat the real crux
5:38
Speaker 5: of the matter here, and that is that there is
5:41
Speaker 5: significant intelligence in the hands of the Department of Justice
5:45
Speaker 5: and the FBI that has not been released to the
5:48
Speaker 5: American people. And we know that through various motions that
5:53
Speaker 5: have been put forward in various civil cases in which
5:56
Speaker 5: the SDNY the Southern District of New York has argued
6:00
Speaker 5: that the release of those Epstein files could quote reasonably
6:04
Speaker 5: be expected to interfere with a potentially.
6:09
Speaker 2: I've never seen prosecutors so worried about the interests of
6:16
Speaker 2: a convicted felon. I eat Julane Maxwell. And this goes
6:21
Speaker 2: back to before Bondie. The promise that these documents would
6:25
Speaker 2: be released and that any co conspirator would be prosecutor
6:29
Speaker 2: goes all the way back to Attorney General William Barr.
6:33
Speaker 6: This case will continue on against anyone who was complicit
6:39
Speaker 6: with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.
6:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my friends at CBS, And apparently all of
6:48
Speaker 2: the allergic co conspirators are in fact resting easy tonight
6:54
Speaker 2: because apparently the files are not going to be released.
6:59
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like it, and all my years
7:03
Speaker 2: of investigating and prosecuting, let's just remind everyone what this
7:08
Speaker 2: case is about. Listen to Virginia Jiffry, one of the
7:12
Speaker 2: five individuals who allegedly committed suicide connected to the Epstein case.
7:18
Speaker 3: You said, take off your clothes.
7:20
Speaker 7: I had these little girl undies on, like little hearts
7:23
Speaker 7: on them, I remember, and they were laughing at that
7:26
Speaker 7: because they liked that the younger you look, the better
7:29
Speaker 7: it is. It turned into it turned very sexual, and
7:33
Speaker 7: it was abused straight away from both of them. I
7:37
Speaker 7: had been a runaway and I had been abused before.
7:40
Speaker 7: So to have this, you know, ability to get educated
7:44
Speaker 7: and do something with my life, I thought I was
7:46
Speaker 7: turning around.
7:46
Speaker 2: That's for my friends at Miami Harold and ITV News
7:49
Speaker 2: and Lifetime Dylan Howard, That's what this case is all about.
7:54
Speaker 2: The trafficking and exploitation of what we now believed to
7:58
Speaker 2: be thousands of little girls. Now, why on God's green
8:03
Speaker 2: Earth would we not want to release files about the
8:07
Speaker 2: desecration and the victimization of little girls entirely correct?
8:12
Speaker 5: Nancy, at the very heart of This lies a very
8:16
Speaker 5: deep and disturbing question. If Jeffrey Epstein was operating a
8:20
Speaker 5: child's sex ring, was he doing it for his own
8:22
Speaker 5: sexual proclivities or was he doing it for a perhaps
8:26
Speaker 5: far more nefarious cause. And I think the answer lies there.
8:31
Speaker 5: As you pointed out, there are dozens of individuals whom
8:34
Speaker 5: have been linked to Jeffrey Epstein, but their names never
8:37
Speaker 5: been revealed as part of this so called client list. Now,
8:42
Speaker 5: something else that Virginia Duffrey said, of course, she committed
8:46
Speaker 5: suicide earlier this year, was left in a diary that
8:49
Speaker 5: she wrote, and she said that she used to be
8:54
Speaker 5: filmed by Epstein's hidden cameras. And what we've learned is
8:59
Speaker 5: that Epstein's various properties dotted throughout the United States and
9:04
Speaker 5: his so called Orgy Island, had cameras in every room.
9:10
Speaker 5: They fed back into a central computer room where a
9:14
Speaker 5: classic blackmail and honeytrap operation was being run. That according
9:20
Speaker 5: to various sources whom I've spoken to over the course
9:23
Speaker 5: of the last decade.
9:24
Speaker 2: And your point is that those videos exist and they.
9:28
Speaker 3: Have not been released.
9:30
Speaker 2: And speaking of video, now rearing its ugly head is
9:36
Speaker 2: the accusation that the jail video has been edited from
9:43
Speaker 2: the night of Epstein's death. His own brother refuses to
9:49
Speaker 2: call it a suicide.
9:51
Speaker 8: Listen to this challenging ag Bondi's claim of one minute
9:54
Speaker 8: of Epstein prison video is missing due to a daily reset.
9:58
Speaker 8: Wired reports the video was cut together in Adobe Premiere
10:02
Speaker 8: pro from two video files. If true, this contradicts the
10:06
Speaker 8: Justice Department claimed that footage was raw. Metadata from the
10:10
Speaker 8: raw Epstein prison video shows approximately two minutes and fifty
10:13
Speaker 8: three seconds were removed from one of two stitched together clips,
10:18
Speaker 8: and the cut starts right at the missing minute.
10:24
Speaker 9: Jeffrey Epstein, is it true, sir, that you have what's
10:32
Speaker 9: been described as an egg shaped.
10:37
Speaker 10: Form?
10:38
Speaker 11: Vague in definite and I'm going to give you the
10:40
Speaker 11: first one in, mister Peuterman that these types of questions
10:44
Speaker 11: are not only argumented, but directly in a manner to
10:47
Speaker 11: embarrass mister Epstein. If you continue with this type of question,
10:51
Speaker 11: I will join the deposition.
10:52
Speaker 9: Immediately, sir. According to the Police Department's probable cause affidavit,
10:58
Speaker 9: one witness described your is oval shaped and claim when
11:04
Speaker 9: it was thick towards the bottom but was thin and
11:07
Speaker 9: small towards the head portion and called it egg shaped.
11:10
Speaker 9: Those are not my words.
11:11
Speaker 2: I apologize Jeffrey Epstein's deposition that we got our mints on. Now,
11:17
Speaker 2: who in the world would have seen his penis and
11:21
Speaker 2: be able to describe it in such elaborate detail. It's
11:27
Speaker 2: referred to in police documents as a witness, which, of
11:31
Speaker 2: course that witness.
11:32
Speaker 3: Is a victim.
11:35
Speaker 2: Who else would be speaking to police to describe Epstein's genitalia.
11:40
Speaker 2: That would be one document in the many, many thousands
11:45
Speaker 2: of documents that we are being denied. Now, if there's
11:51
Speaker 2: nothing in the files, why aren't they being released? BONDI
11:57
Speaker 2: promised they would be released, yet now abrupt about face.
12:02
Speaker 2: Much of the suspicion of the government at this juncture
12:07
Speaker 2: has to relate to videos, videos specifically taken in the
12:14
Speaker 2: homes of Epstein around the world, flight logs where he
12:18
Speaker 2: would apparently faery celebrities, millionaires, and more, back and forth
12:25
Speaker 2: to his so called Lolita Island where underage girls perform
12:31
Speaker 2: sex acts. But in my mind, I'm concerned more so
12:37
Speaker 2: about the video from behind jailhouse walls the night Epstein died. Now,
12:46
Speaker 2: keep in mind there are five suicides connected to the
12:52
Speaker 2: Epstein investigation. Who are they number one, obviously Epstein number two,
12:59
Speaker 2: his French counterpart, the French Epstein who was accused and
13:05
Speaker 2: behind bars on supplying under age girls.
13:09
Speaker 3: Who else, Virginia's You're Free?
13:12
Speaker 2: And two other Epstein victims, all who could have testified.
13:19
Speaker 2: So there's a spate of suicides connected to the Epstein case.
13:24
Speaker 2: Like in Russia, whenever someone speaks out, they end up
13:30
Speaker 2: jumping off of a balcony or they're seriously poisoned. And
13:34
Speaker 2: we talk about Russia. There are five suicides connected to
13:42
Speaker 2: the Epstein case. How much more does the government expect
13:46
Speaker 2: us to believe? And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I've
13:50
Speaker 2: been on the side of law enforcement since they murdered
13:54
Speaker 2: my fiance decades ago.
13:57
Speaker 3: But this is clearly wrong. Let's talk about that jailhouse video.
14:01
Speaker 8: Listen in a deep dive into the metadata embedded in
14:03
Speaker 8: the video presented to the American people as quote. Raw
14:07
Speaker 8: Wired published analysis indicating the file was assembled from at
14:11
Speaker 8: least two different source cliffs saved multiple times over a
14:14
Speaker 8: period of more than three hours on May twenty third,
14:17
Speaker 8: twenty twenty five. The file was then created at four
14:20
Speaker 8: forty eight pm and last modified at eight sixteen PM
14:24
Speaker 8: the same day and uploaded to the Justice Department's website,
14:27
Speaker 8: where the edited clip is presented as raw footage.
14:31
Speaker 2: Dave matt Crime Stories investigative reporter who has poured through
14:35
Speaker 2: countless documents and interviews. Dave Matc We first heard that
14:40
Speaker 2: there was a glitch in the video recording system where
14:45
Speaker 2: Epstein was housed behind bars.
14:48
Speaker 3: There were a lot of glitches that.
14:51
Speaker 2: Night, weren't there, Dave mac Two guards on duty in
14:56
Speaker 2: view of Epstein. He could see them, and they could
15:00
Speaker 2: see him. They didn't have to watch the surveillance video.
15:04
Speaker 2: Both of them either fell asleep or went online shopping
15:08
Speaker 2: at the time he committed suicide. But it's not just
15:13
Speaker 2: one minute. There's not just one minute missing from the
15:18
Speaker 2: jail house video, is there?
15:20
Speaker 12: Dave Mac correct Nancy that one minute that Attorney General
15:26
Speaker 12: Bondi has been popping about the reset of the video
15:29
Speaker 12: at eleven fifty eight fifty eight, saying that was because
15:33
Speaker 12: it was a nineteen ninety nine system. Well, that might
15:37
Speaker 12: be explainable if that was the only problem here. But
15:41
Speaker 12: in total, two minutes and fifty three seconds of video
15:46
Speaker 12: appears to have been manipulated and is missing. They're able
15:51
Speaker 12: to go in and look at these computer programs and
15:53
Speaker 12: how they're used. They can tell when you make a
15:55
Speaker 12: cut in the video, and when you join two separate
15:58
Speaker 12: pieces together. They can look see from your keyboard strokes
16:02
Speaker 12: everything that's been done to the point where they're able
16:05
Speaker 12: to see how this piece of video was cut, how
16:07
Speaker 12: it was been saved. Another piece is cut and saved,
16:12
Speaker 12: and then the two pieces are brought together. The problem
16:15
Speaker 12: is when you do all that and then present it
16:17
Speaker 12: as supposed raw footage.
16:20
Speaker 2: And it was absolutely titled raw footage, raw footage which
16:25
Speaker 2: means unedited. But you could see the jumps as we
16:28
Speaker 2: call them in this business, the jumps video.
16:31
Speaker 3: Is spliced together. I mean, I'm not even an expert
16:35
Speaker 3: in that. I just know a little bit about it.
16:38
Speaker 3: But I happen to have an expert with me right now.
16:41
Speaker 2: Todd Shipley is joining US digital cyber crime expert, former
16:44
Speaker 2: detective sergeant with the Reno Police, twenty five years in
16:49
Speaker 2: elle law enforcement and author surviving cyber attack, securing social
16:54
Speaker 2: media and protecting your home, Author of investigating Internet crimes.
16:58
Speaker 2: It goes on and on and on. His expertise is
17:01
Speaker 2: this helped me out?
17:03
Speaker 3: Shipley?
17:03
Speaker 13: Well, I think like everybody s already said, these are
17:06
Speaker 13: not the law videos. I've looked at the both of
17:08
Speaker 13: the videos that they provided for download, and needed video
17:14
Speaker 13: is the original video. They both have been edited. Now
17:17
Speaker 13: does that mean it's not the real video. No, but
17:19
Speaker 13: they compiled both of the videos that they allowed for
17:23
Speaker 13: release and edited them using commercial tools. So it's clear
17:29
Speaker 13: that the state in the United States government did not
17:33
Speaker 13: provide us with the raw video that they promised.
17:36
Speaker 2: The disturbing aspect is that number one, the video has
17:42
Speaker 2: been edited of that night.
17:43
Speaker 3: That's the most disturbing aspect.
17:44
Speaker 2: But number two that it was released to us titled
17:49
Speaker 2: raw video.
17:51
Speaker 3: A lot of excuses have been made about.
17:54
Speaker 2: The glitch, but we are now detecting between two and
18:00
Speaker 2: three minutes missing from the jail house video. Now, if
18:05
Speaker 2: you look at that video, you see that only visible
18:12
Speaker 2: is the elevator and stairwell leading onto that particular cell block.
18:18
Speaker 2: Doctor Dwayne Hendrix joining me, former Associate Warden in MDC,
18:23
Speaker 2: former Senior Warden, US Department of Justice. It goes on
18:27
Speaker 2: and on and on. Author, who are you see it?
18:30
Speaker 2: Say it sees it? Doctor Hendrix?
18:33
Speaker 3: Where's the video?
18:36
Speaker 2: I see the video of the elevator and the stairwell
18:39
Speaker 2: that would indicate anyone coming in.
18:41
Speaker 3: Or off the cell block.
18:42
Speaker 2: But what about the people already on the cell block,
18:47
Speaker 2: the inmate neighbors and others on the cell block.
18:51
Speaker 3: Where's the video.
18:52
Speaker 14: Well that They should have various angles in that special
18:55
Speaker 14: housing unit to show pretty much all the doors within
19:00
Speaker 14: that unit. Each each institution is mandated to record at
19:05
Speaker 14: least fifteen days prior anything that goes on in that unit.
19:10
Speaker 14: So when the investigator show up, showed up the after
19:13
Speaker 14: Action team, they should have been able to see all
19:15
Speaker 14: the footage from the prior fifteen days on that special
19:20
Speaker 14: housing unit. Now, in terms of the branch, I.
19:25
Speaker 2: Hear you talking about the fifteen days prior to Epstein's death.
19:30
Speaker 2: I'm talking about that, not that's all I want. All
19:32
Speaker 2: I'm seeing is a door in the elevator. What about
19:36
Speaker 2: the other inmates? Hendrix, where's the you alluded to other angles.
19:44
Speaker 14: They should have been recording and the staff and facilities,
19:47
Speaker 14: those communication technicians. If there were any issues with those cameras,
19:52
Speaker 14: they that should have been they should have been aware
19:54
Speaker 14: of that. Now when the after Action team came, I
19:57
Speaker 14: think the After Action team came within a few after
20:00
Speaker 14: mister Epstein's death. That would have been something that would
20:03
Speaker 14: have been talked about immediately and right away. So I
20:08
Speaker 14: would beg to think in an after action import from
20:12
Speaker 14: the incident of his death or his apparent suicide, that
20:16
Speaker 14: would have been something that would have been definitely a
20:19
Speaker 14: major part of that investigation. So that's where that information
20:24
Speaker 14: will come from.
20:30
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
20:35
Speaker 2: Joining me now is Joseph Scott Morgan. He is Professor
20:38
Speaker 2: forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet,
20:42
Speaker 2: and he is a star of a hit podcast, Body
20:44
Speaker 2: Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
20:47
Speaker 3: Jo Scott, thank you for being with us.
20:49
Speaker 2: Don't you find it a tiny bit of coincidence that,
20:52
Speaker 2: according to experts I put on the stand, it takes
20:56
Speaker 2: a human between two and three minutes to die of
20:59
Speaker 2: asphyxiation or less or less than two to three minutes,
21:04
Speaker 2: and the glitch in the video.
21:08
Speaker 3: Is about three minutes. Doesn't that bother you?
21:10
Speaker 15: Of course it does, and i'd I've worked diks in
21:14
Speaker 15: jails over the course of my career in Atlanta and
21:16
Speaker 15: New Orleans, and one of the things that we talk
21:20
Speaker 15: about when we are investigating disks within correctional facilities, is
21:25
Speaker 15: who observed them, When was the last time they were
21:27
Speaker 15: seeing what are the points of observation relative to this,
21:32
Speaker 15: Because this is what it breaks down to, is that
21:34
Speaker 15: the government at this point in time is the caretaker
21:38
Speaker 15: of these individuals. They have assumed that role and they
21:42
Speaker 15: did not have eyes on this individual during this period
21:45
Speaker 15: of time. There has to be door to door accountability
21:49
Speaker 15: for every second. And from a death investigation perspective, this
21:54
Speaker 15: should be a no brainer. This should be something that
21:56
Speaker 15: is so easy to walk through. But as it turned out,
22:00
Speaker 15: Nancy that arguably this is one of the most controversial
22:04
Speaker 15: death investigations of this current century that we're in right now,
22:08
Speaker 15: and it should be something that's very very simple.
22:10
Speaker 8: Information has not been released about the inmates and sells
22:13
Speaker 8: adjacent to Epstein. In the days leading up to his death.
22:16
Speaker 8: There were twelve to fourteen inmates near Epstein, but no
22:19
Speaker 8: information about who the inmates were, when the inmates were
22:22
Speaker 8: placed in the cells near Epstein, how long the individuals
22:25
Speaker 8: had been in jail, when were they moved, and where
22:28
Speaker 8: did they go. Mark Epstein says one of the inmates
22:31
Speaker 8: had been in the cell area for a time prior
22:33
Speaker 8: to Epstein's arrest and subsequent attainment, and another died after
22:36
Speaker 8: Epstein's death. No information is available about the other ten
22:40
Speaker 8: to twelve inmates in the area when Epstein died.
22:43
Speaker 2: US Attorney General Pam Bondy insisting there's nothing to see here,
22:47
Speaker 2: there's no client lists. Where now not releasing the files? Okay, Bondy,
22:53
Speaker 2: you want to tell me that this.
22:55
Speaker 3: Name wasn't in the files.
22:58
Speaker 16: Listen, I don't believe it's a picture of me in
23:00
Speaker 16: London because when I go out to when I go
23:02
Speaker 16: out in London, I wear a suit and a tie.
23:06
Speaker 10: That's me.
23:06
Speaker 16: But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
23:11
Speaker 16: but I don't. I have simply no recollection. The photograph
23:15
Speaker 16: is taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever went upstairs.
23:21
Speaker 17: In Galln's house.
23:22
Speaker 2: But you can't even spit it out, sweating profusely shifting this.
23:27
Speaker 3: Jerry's lying. You want to tell me that the name
23:32
Speaker 3: of the number.
23:33
Speaker 2: Of Prince Andrew of Wales, that one is not in
23:38
Speaker 2: those files. I would bet everything I have that his
23:43
Speaker 2: name is in his files. And if his name is
23:47
Speaker 2: in the files, who else is in the files?
23:50
Speaker 3: The files were not seeing because BONDI lied.
23:54
Speaker 2: That was my our friend's over at BBC News and
23:57
Speaker 2: there's more watch this train wreck.
23:59
Speaker 17: And I've said consistently and frequently that we never had
24:07
Speaker 17: any sort of sexual contact whatever.
24:09
Speaker 2: Joining me now a veteran trial attorney, former felony prosecutor
24:14
Speaker 2: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Daryl Cohen, Darryl Cohen, if
24:19
Speaker 2: you or I had withheld information in a case, a
24:25
Speaker 2: felony case, we would be disbarred, We would be censured.
24:32
Speaker 3: Daryl Cohen.
24:33
Speaker 2: Of course, you know in every case the defense argues,
24:36
Speaker 2: oh we didn't get this, Oh we didn't get that.
24:39
Speaker 3: This is on a biblical scale. Cohen Nancy.
24:43
Speaker 10: First of all, my philosophy of life and trial strategy
24:48
Speaker 10: is you have nothing to hide, that hide nothing, So
24:52
Speaker 10: the question becomes why is it being hidden? In terms
24:55
Speaker 10: of the victims, I understand withholding their names.
25:00
Speaker 18: As you have pointed out on the show, and many
25:02
Speaker 18: people have pointed out, there have been five homicides, five
25:07
Speaker 18: self deaths, people have committed suicide.
25:12
Speaker 10: If these victims come out, if her name, whoever she
25:17
Speaker 10: may be, she may find that her life is not
25:20
Speaker 10: only ruined from before, but ruined for the rest of
25:23
Speaker 10: her life. So I understand that, but there is a
25:26
Speaker 10: way of explaining that, not hiding all of the evidence.
25:30
Speaker 10: Not suddenly two different videos minus a minute minus two minutes.
25:37
Speaker 10: It makes no sense. And so if you want people
25:41
Speaker 10: to have conspiracy theories, hide it. Continue to hide it,
25:45
Speaker 10: and the theories will expand, expand and expand. So what
25:50
Speaker 10: we need to have is transparency. I've heard the word,
25:55
Speaker 10: but the word has to be followed. Let the public
25:59
Speaker 10: know as much as you can. And if you don't
26:02
Speaker 10: let the public know why this person is not named,
26:07
Speaker 10: then you've got a problem. But let them know. These
26:10
Speaker 10: were young girls. These were girls whose lives have forever
26:14
Speaker 10: been changed, and if their name comes out, it may
26:18
Speaker 10: be even worse.
26:19
Speaker 2: In addition to alleged client lists, and again it may
26:22
Speaker 2: not be a proverbial little black book.
26:24
Speaker 3: It could be.
26:25
Speaker 2: Names, phone calls, memos, emails, travelogs, video surveillance at Epstein's
26:33
Speaker 2: various homes and getaways to reveal or create a so
26:39
Speaker 2: called client list. I don't expect the FEDS to open
26:42
Speaker 2: up a file and go, oh, here's three hundred names,
26:45
Speaker 2: this must be the client list.
26:46
Speaker 3: It's not that easy.
26:48
Speaker 2: That's why we've got about eleven thousand documents that need
26:51
Speaker 2: to be released.
26:53
Speaker 3: They're not.
26:55
Speaker 2: There's so many disturbing facts about this. Not only the
26:59
Speaker 2: fact that many people, including Epstein's own brother, who does
27:02
Speaker 2: not have a pecuniary or money interest in the outcome,
27:05
Speaker 2: insist that this was not a suicide of Epstein, but
27:09
Speaker 2: there are five five suicides in all. Straight Back out
27:16
Speaker 2: to Dylan Howard, joining US investigative journalist. He is the
27:19
Speaker 2: author of Epstein Dead Men Tell No Tales. Dylan, again,
27:26
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. You
27:28
Speaker 2: have researched this so heavily. Five dead bodies, and they
27:33
Speaker 2: all what a cowenkidink commit suicide before they can testify.
27:39
Speaker 3: Wow, indeed, now detail please.
27:42
Speaker 5: Earlier this year we saw the death of Virginia Geoffrey,
27:45
Speaker 5: who is perhaps the most notable of Jeffrey Epstein's victims
27:48
Speaker 5: by virtue of the fact that she alleged Prince Andrew
27:53
Speaker 5: was one who raped her. But significantly, there was another
27:57
Speaker 5: death in custody, this time on the other side of
28:00
Speaker 5: the Atlantic in Paris, a gentleman by the name of
28:03
Speaker 5: John Luke Brenell, who was also accused of similar pinous
28:07
Speaker 5: crimes like Jeffrey Epstein. Now here's the rub that makes
28:12
Speaker 5: this particularly interesting. Jean Luke Brenell was the co founder
28:17
Speaker 5: and CEO of a number of modeling agencies. Modeling agencies,
28:23
Speaker 5: of course, are known for their use of young women
28:26
Speaker 5: and underage women for major campaigns. Now Brunell was found
28:31
Speaker 5: dead by suicide inside his Parisian jail. But this also
28:37
Speaker 5: opened up an entire other can of worms. And last
28:40
Speaker 5: week in the US Senate we heard that Jeffrey Epstein
28:45
Speaker 5: trafficked not only human beings, but more than one billion
28:50
Speaker 5: dollars across various countries. We don't know how we amassed
28:55
Speaker 5: a fortune, an individual with little to know financial expertise,
29:00
Speaker 5: how we amassed such a fortune. And guess what, Nancy,
29:03
Speaker 5: He funded the modeling operations of John Luke Brennell in Paris.
29:09
Speaker 2: I mean Dylan Howard joining us Dylan for Epstein's day
29:13
Speaker 2: job where he amassed millions and millions and millions of dollars.
29:17
Speaker 3: He basically had one client.
29:19
Speaker 2: He was like a wealth advisor, you know, trying down
29:22
Speaker 2: the street to Wells Fargo and they'll have a wealth advisor,
29:24
Speaker 2: you know, to tell you what to do with your.
29:26
Speaker 3: Children's college fund blah blah blah. That's what he did.
29:29
Speaker 3: He had one client, true, a rich client.
29:32
Speaker 2: But there's no way in hubl that he got all
29:35
Speaker 2: that money from wealth advising one client.
29:40
Speaker 3: I mean, did they think we all just fill off
29:42
Speaker 3: the turnip truck because we didn't?
29:44
Speaker 5: Oh the DEMI, where.
29:45
Speaker 3: Did all that money come from?
29:47
Speaker 2: And I want to talk to you about Jean Luke Breunell.
29:50
Speaker 2: All right, he died behind.
29:52
Speaker 3: Bars, just as you said.
29:54
Speaker 2: But the circumstances around his death have not been made public,
29:59
Speaker 2: right they have not?
30:01
Speaker 5: They have not? Why there are theories out there that
30:06
Speaker 5: his death was similar to that of Epstein. And one
30:10
Speaker 5: thing that needs to be explored not only is this
30:13
Speaker 5: alleged cover up of the tape, it is also how
30:18
Speaker 5: was Jeffrey Epstein able to be given the means to
30:23
Speaker 5: be able to commit suicide if that's what he did
30:26
Speaker 5: behind bars in New York City? Because the reality is, well.
30:30
Speaker 2: You're about to pass a brick if you get my understanding.
30:33
Speaker 2: When Joe Scott Morgan explains to you why he a
30:36
Speaker 2: death investigator with over one thousand death scenes under his belt,
30:40
Speaker 2: says this is not a suicide.
30:43
Speaker 3: But back to.
30:44
Speaker 2: Brunei Brunell, the French Epstein, as he has been called.
30:49
Speaker 3: Jean Luke Brunell. Why do I care about him?
30:52
Speaker 2: Because he is a freak, was a frequent companion of Epstein's,
30:58
Speaker 2: and he, like Epstein, was detained at an airport because
31:05
Speaker 2: of a US launched investigation into Epstein. So what do
31:12
Speaker 2: you think he would tell authorities to save his own skin,
31:17
Speaker 2: tell authorities about Epstein, about Epstein's clients. But he never
31:24
Speaker 2: got to do that because he ended up dead and
31:27
Speaker 2: no one will tell us why. So what happens over
31:30
Speaker 2: in a Parisian jail cell actually matters in this case,
31:35
Speaker 2: Dylan Howard. So we've got Jean Luke Brennell, but there is,
31:40
Speaker 2: of course Epstein. There is Virginia Geoffrey, who is sitting
31:44
Speaker 2: on a boatload of money from her Prince Andrew's settlement,
31:48
Speaker 2: has a beautiful mansion, and then suddenly, after she wins,
31:53
Speaker 2: she kills herself. Then we have Caroline on Giannao, an
32:01
Speaker 2: Epstein victim, and leap sky Patrick another Epstein victim. Could
32:07
Speaker 2: they have testified to who their clients were? But we'll
32:12
Speaker 2: never know because they're all dead, Dylan.
32:15
Speaker 5: That's entirely correct, Nancy but that's not to say that
32:18
Speaker 5: the death of a number of these people that were
32:21
Speaker 5: alleged victims of Jeffrey Epstein were indeed nefarious. What we
32:25
Speaker 5: do know about Virginia Jewfree is that she was going
32:29
Speaker 5: through a very difficult time as a result of being
32:31
Speaker 5: catapulted at a young age, at the tender teenage years
32:36
Speaker 5: of her life, to be catapulted into this scandal. So
32:40
Speaker 5: I'm not a subscriber that Virginia Jewffree was off, if
32:43
Speaker 5: you like, But what I can tell you is my
32:46
Speaker 5: own knowledge from having spoken to a number of victims
32:49
Speaker 5: of Epstein. These young girls that have matured in life
32:55
Speaker 5: have gone on to live scared and paranoid lives, feeling
33:00
Speaker 5: like and in some instances, knowing that they have been followed,
33:05
Speaker 5: them pointing the blame back at people like Epstein and Maxwell,
33:10
Speaker 5: who they believe terrorized them throughout the course of their
33:14
Speaker 5: criminal trials, all with one pursuit to zip them up,
33:19
Speaker 5: to keep them quiet, to frighten them from testifying, and
33:23
Speaker 5: to ensure that potentially people like Maxwell and Epstein were
33:27
Speaker 5: able to potentially secure their own futures.
33:37
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grief.
33:43
Speaker 2: Joining me now is a renowned forensic psychologist, TV radio
33:46
Speaker 2: trauma expert and consultant. It's Karen Stork at Karenstork dot com. Karen,
33:52
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Jumping off of what
33:55
Speaker 2: Dylan Howard just said, as if these victims hadn't been
33:59
Speaker 2: through for Pete SAgs afraid has photos, yet people still
34:03
Speaker 2: claims she's a liar. Right now, the bodies are piling
34:10
Speaker 2: up and the government refuses to release the files.
34:16
Speaker 3: This is rubbing salt in the wounds of the victims.
34:20
Speaker 2: But also I would find it very scary that when
34:23
Speaker 2: people speak out, they are alambasted in public, they meet misfortune.
34:28
Speaker 19: These were girls who were under age. Their brains were
34:32
Speaker 19: not developed. You don't develop to your in your twenties,
34:35
Speaker 19: and their lives are crushed. They're terrified. They see people dying.
34:41
Speaker 19: They have not been able in many, many instances. I
34:44
Speaker 19: even know one of them. They don't have normal lives.
34:48
Speaker 19: This changes everything, the picture of your future, and so
34:53
Speaker 19: it's awful. It's just terrible that this continues and that
34:57
Speaker 19: we don't get to the bottom of what's going on.
35:01
Speaker 2: It's not just about a client list, a little black
35:04
Speaker 2: book or videos.
35:06
Speaker 3: It's about a potential murder. Yes of Epstein.
35:11
Speaker 2: You may not care about his life, but don't you
35:15
Speaker 2: care about the truth. Don't you want to know what
35:19
Speaker 2: really happened and what happened to the other four people
35:22
Speaker 2: connected to this case? You all committed suicide. Well, take
35:27
Speaker 2: a listen to doctor Michael Boden.
35:30
Speaker 20: There were fractures of the left, the right thyroid cartilage,
35:37
Speaker 20: and the left hyoid bone. I have never seen three
35:42
Speaker 20: fractures like this in a suicidal hanging. Sometimes there's a
35:47
Speaker 20: fracture of the higher bone or a fracture of the
35:50
Speaker 20: thyroid cartilage. Going over over one thousand jail hangings suicides
35:55
Speaker 20: in the New York City State prisons over the past
35:58
Speaker 20: forty to fifty years, no one had three fractures.
36:02
Speaker 2: I have questioned doctor Michael Boden on many occasions, and
36:07
Speaker 2: he is truly brilliant.
36:10
Speaker 3: Joining me now.
36:12
Speaker 2: Is Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville
36:17
Speaker 2: State University, author and star of Body Bags That Joe
36:21
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan hit Podcast All That Aside. He has investigated
36:26
Speaker 2: over one thousand deaths, be the suicide, homicide, accidental, natural causes,
36:36
Speaker 2: all of them. Everything in the book he's investigated it. Okay,
36:42
Speaker 2: Joe Scott again, thank you for being with us. I
36:45
Speaker 2: need you and I need you. Now explain what Biden's
36:50
Speaker 2: talking about.
36:51
Speaker 15: Okay, before we get to what he said about the
36:53
Speaker 15: internal findings. It's very important, Nancy, that we understand the
36:56
Speaker 15: external findings on Epstein's body. When you have a hanging, okay,
37:03
Speaker 15: you begin to think about the body being supported. Right,
37:06
Speaker 15: So we have a ligature here. We're talking about a
37:09
Speaker 15: hanging where an individual is supported. You've got a point
37:12
Speaker 15: of contact here, and you get a feature on the neck.
37:15
Speaker 15: With hangings, that's called tintinge n ting, not like car windows,
37:22
Speaker 15: but like a pup tent. The actual furrows go up
37:25
Speaker 15: behind the ears, Nancy, that doesn't exist with Epstein. It
37:30
Speaker 15: goes parallel to the shoulders. If you look at the
37:33
Speaker 15: ligature mark around his neck, and this is the external thing,
37:36
Speaker 15: you'll see this kind of dry, a braided area that
37:39
Speaker 15: runs parallel to his neck. Listen to a person when
37:43
Speaker 15: this happened. There were many of us that saw those
37:45
Speaker 15: images saying, this doesn't look like a typical hanging. Okay,
37:49
Speaker 15: how in the hell do you explain that? Where does
37:52
Speaker 15: that come from? That's not something that you normally see.
37:54
Speaker 15: Here we have the hyoid, it's fractured. That's the greater
37:57
Speaker 15: horn Nancy. That does happen with homicidal strangulations. Over the
38:03
Speaker 15: course of my career in Nancy, I've had one case
38:07
Speaker 15: that I recall that was not a homicide, where I
38:11
Speaker 15: had a fractured highwoid, and that was a car accident
38:14
Speaker 15: with an old car where guy fell off of an
38:17
Speaker 15: abutment thirty three stories hit his neck on there. You
38:21
Speaker 15: have to have direct pressure and then to think about
38:24
Speaker 15: that that's going to be generated by this cloth that's
38:28
Speaker 15: on the floor. The deeper the furrow, the narrow the cord.
38:32
Speaker 15: They're trying to sell us this idea that this was
38:35
Speaker 15: in fact the strips of material that are torn up
38:39
Speaker 15: in this pigsty of a cell that this guy was
38:42
Speaker 15: living in. I don't see how you can make sense
38:45
Speaker 15: of it. THEO investigators, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, just
38:49
Speaker 15: not hold on.
38:49
Speaker 2: You mentioned the disarray in Epstein's cell. Doctor Dwayne Hendricks
38:54
Speaker 2: is joining us. He is the expert former Associate Warden MDC. Brooklyn,
38:59
Speaker 2: the former c your Warden US Department of Justice. This
39:02
Speaker 2: is not allowed, doctor Hendrix. I've been in so many jails, penitentiaries,
39:07
Speaker 2: gimvy jails, you name it, halfway houses, blah blah blah.
39:10
Speaker 2: I can get on. That's not allowed in a jail cell.
39:15
Speaker 2: That is not allowed for many reasons. Succinctly explain why.
39:21
Speaker 14: One for sanitary reasons and safety reasons. I mean they
39:25
Speaker 14: ripped clothes to make clothes lines.
39:28
Speaker 2: Yes, I hate to be doctor Hendrix. I like you,
39:32
Speaker 2: but that's not why that is not allowed. Because we
39:35
Speaker 2: don't want to have a messy inmate. Eh what no
39:39
Speaker 2: safety is because it's a danger it is.
39:44
Speaker 14: You're right, it's safety and security. And when someone walks
39:47
Speaker 14: up to that cell and looks through that that little
39:50
Speaker 14: small window and that shoe cell with should have told
39:53
Speaker 14: him to get take that stuff down, give me those
39:56
Speaker 14: extra seats, give me those extra clothes, and get this stuff.
39:59
Speaker 20: Out to sell.
40:00
Speaker 14: There is no way that self should like.
40:04
Speaker 2: A teenage girl's nasty dormitory.
40:07
Speaker 3: Put the picture back up, Hendrix.
40:10
Speaker 2: Don't you know how many inmates, how many would want
40:14
Speaker 2: to tear that sheet up and get a warden like
40:17
Speaker 2: you around the net with it.
40:20
Speaker 3: That's why that is not allowed.
40:23
Speaker 2: And I have been in so many jails again, Hendrix,
40:26
Speaker 2: I can't even count them that.
40:29
Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like that in my life. Why, Hendrix, Why.
40:36
Speaker 14: This is obviously what we're saying is a huge neglect
40:41
Speaker 14: in basic correctional fundamentals, and that's running a safe, humane
40:46
Speaker 14: and clean environment. And there's no way that this individual
40:50
Speaker 14: should have had all those extra sheets, been able to
40:53
Speaker 14: accumulate all this extra material to put himself in a
40:57
Speaker 14: last position to commit suicide. So, in a nutshell of
41:01
Speaker 14: that is the reason why they should have happened.
41:03
Speaker 1: Or be murdered.
41:05
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know who his inmate neighbor was. We
41:08
Speaker 2: haven't been given those files. They're in the files that
41:11
Speaker 2: were going to be really so, Joe Scott Morgan, what's
41:13
Speaker 2: the single most probative fact regarding Epstein's body?
41:20
Speaker 15: I think I think probably this level of trauma that
41:24
Speaker 15: you're seeing that is just inconsistent with what doctor Mike
41:28
Speaker 15: had said, Nancy, that this is not consistent with a
41:32
Speaker 15: suicidal event. This is consistent with what you see relative
41:37
Speaker 15: to a homicidal event. And it's not just that greater
41:39
Speaker 15: horn that's fractured there on the hyoid, Nancy, we also
41:43
Speaker 15: have bilateral cartilage fractures that are on either side. That
41:47
Speaker 15: requires a tremendous amount of pressure, either through a ligature
41:51
Speaker 15: that's directly applied or through throddling where the hands are used,
41:55
Speaker 15: and that is snap. You're not going to get this
41:58
Speaker 15: kind of dynamic.
41:59
Speaker 2: And Dylan Howard again guys joining us author of Epstein
42:02
Speaker 2: dead men tale, no tales, and it is incredible by
42:06
Speaker 2: the way, I've had read every word of it.
42:08
Speaker 3: Dylan Howard, correct me if I'm wrong.
42:10
Speaker 2: You've got the death of Epstein, his own brother says
42:13
Speaker 2: it was a murder. He does not have a money
42:16
Speaker 2: interest in that. You've got the death of Epstein, which
42:19
Speaker 2: is shrouded in mystery. You've got the death of Jean
42:22
Speaker 2: Luke Brunnell, which is also shrouded in mystery, which is
42:25
Speaker 2: the French Epstein that worked with Epstein. And then the
42:29
Speaker 2: other three. You've got two of them accidental over Josephs.
42:35
Speaker 2: And then you've got your phrase. So we're never going
42:39
Speaker 2: to know the truth if they don't release those files,
42:42
Speaker 2: are we, Dylan Well?
42:43
Speaker 5: The FBI do O J Meno said Nancy that no
42:46
Speaker 5: further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted. I couldn't think
42:51
Speaker 5: of anything more perilous than that statement. For transparency's sake
42:57
Speaker 5: and for closure on this matter. If there is ever
43:01
Speaker 5: to be closure, the full FBI and Department of Justice
43:05
Speaker 5: report needs to be released so that the American public
43:09
Speaker 5: can weigh in and make its own judgment, because we
43:12
Speaker 5: are not trusting of our government institutions to have told
43:17
Speaker 5: us the truth about this scandal from day one.
43:20
Speaker 3: Bondy, Yeah, you release the files.
43:25
Speaker 2: How can you put your head on your pillow at
43:27
Speaker 2: night after all those promises? We remember heroes, heroes in
43:36
Speaker 2: America and all over the world, that are not afraid
43:40
Speaker 2: to speak out, are not afraid to tell the truth
43:45
Speaker 2: and demand the truth.
43:48
Speaker 3: Bondy, you have a choice.
43:50
Speaker 2: You can make excuses to the public, or you can
43:53
Speaker 2: finally man up and be a hero. We wait as
44:00
Speaker 2: justice unfolds. Thank you to our guests, but especially to
44:03
Speaker 2: you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off,
44:06
Speaker 2: God willing, I'll see you tomorrow night and unto end