Latest / The Birth Lounge Podcast / Ep. 447: Microplastics in Pregnancy, Postpartum, and Babies: What You’re Being Exposed To and What to Actually Do About It with Dana Zhaxylykova

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Ep. 447: Microplastics in Pregnancy, Postpartum, and Babies: What You’re Being Exposed To and What to Actually Do About It with Dana Zhaxylykova · The Birth Lounge Podcast

0:00
babies are exposed to even more microplastics.
Especially when you see a baby food is usually either prepared in plastic or they're consuming from plastic.
0:11
All the baby cutlery is made out of plastic.
0:14
Yeah, baby toys are plastic and they usually put every toy in their mouth, you know? It is live.
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I'll see you in the birth lounge Hey y'all, and welcome back to another episode of The Birth Lounge podcast.
All right.
How much do you know about microplastics? Are you like freaked out? Are you reading all of these really scary headlines and you are just spiraling? Cool.
Join the club.
I have totally been there, and I'm not gonna say that I'm not quite out of that club, but what I will say is I'm one foot out of that club.
I have really dove into the science and the research behind microplastics, and yes, it's really scary and it's overwhelming.
And honestly, if you get too far down the rabbit holes, it can really feel like.
Why am I even trying? Because microplastics are literally everywhere.
If you just take a moment, wherever you are right now, even if you're driving, but do it safely, just notice the things around you that are plastic it.
I mean, it's literally everywhere.
Even things that are maybe primarily not plastic, have plastic in there.
Like right now I'm looking at a mason jar.
Now it's glass.
Obviously the top of it is aluminum or a metal, but on the inside it has a waxy coating, well, that's plastic.
And then around the ring to make it seal is silicone.
Well, that's plastic.
So even when something doesn't appear to be fully plastic, there is plastic involved, and I know that that can feel so scary.
And again, kind of like.
What's the point? If everything is plastic, why am I even trying to get rid of plastics in our life? Well, today's episode is going to explain to you exactly why you do wanna take the steps, even if they're small baby steps, to eventually make a large impact in your life.
Now.
If you have been following me on Instagram, then you know that I am about four or five years into my journey with removing microplastics from our home.
I started with all of our kitchenware and I removed plasticware first and replaced it with glass, and then I started to do the things that we cook with, like our pots and our pans and our cookware, so like our spoons and our spatulas.
And then I started to do our.
Clothing, and so now I really prioritize natural fibers, especially after having Saggy.
I can totally say that one of the things I was super vigilant about when it came to.
I actually making my baby registry.
I didn't put a single piece of clothing on there because I didn't want people to give us clothing 'cause I wanted to be the one that purchased all of his clothing because I wanted to have the control about the threads and the fibers that were coming into our home to be on his body.
Now today I am super excited to be being joined by Dana, who is a microplastics researcher and a science communicator who's passionate about environmental sustainability and microplastics.
She shares education on Instagram, which is where I found her, and she has this really beautiful way of breaking down complex topics like plastic pollution and microplastic exposure without scaring the bejesus out of you.
Dana has published scientific work on microplastics in Kazakhstan, and she's co-authored research on the faster microplastic detection methods in Germany.
Through her social media platform, she reaches global audiences and she helps translate science into stories that really are going to inspire real change.
I mean, we need more of that, right? Throughout our episode, you're going to hear how kind and humble Dana is.
So she's not gonna toot her own horn, but I will toot it for her.
Her work has been featured on BBC, on CNN, on Al Jazeera and LUS.
And she has also co-founded an app, Microplastic Free that helps people identify and reduce microplastics in their everyday products in their everyday life.
In this episode, we're gonna talk about what you need to know about microplastics, where microplastics are found, like our food and our water systems.
She's also gonna break down household products that don't appear to be plastics, but that are riddled with microplastics.
Things like our rugs, tampons, and wet wipes for our baby.
And then finally, we're gonna close out with how can you make small steps, but sustainable steps so that it doesn't feel overwhelming and you can make lasting change for yourself, your children, and your family.
I'm so excited to bring this conversation to you because not only is it something that I feel super passionate about, but I also know that So many of you are curious about microplastics in your life.
Where are they? How can you identify them, and how can you start to remove them in your home? So without further ado, Dana, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to have you on here.
And this is a topic that I'm super interested in and so are my listeners.
And I think that, you know, in general, I think a lot of people are starting to be really curious about this conversation, and I think the more that we learn about microplastics, the more people are starting to be concerned about it.
I know that in the birth world specifically.
There's been a lot of talk about.
Microplastics being found in semen and sperm analysis and in placenta, and even in cord blood.
And so I think that a lot of my audience has really perked up their ears to really understanding that this is definitely something that we wanna be paying attention to.
And so this should be a really good conversation.
Thank you for being here with me today.
Before we dive too far into this conversation.
Let's kind of set the stage with what I like to call microplastics one oh one.
What should we understand before we really dive into the conversation around microplastics? Yeah, that's a good start.
Microplastics are actually just tiny particles of plastic, so anything that is plastic and is less than five millimeters, it's considered microplastics.
We also have two types of microplastics that we usually distinguish.
It's.
Primary microplastics, the ones that are intentionally manufactured to be small.
Usually it's something like ingredients and personal care products.
They can be used as ingredients in some industrial paints and so on, uh, or abrasives, for example, and for the secondary microplastic.
Are the microplastics that were broken down from larger plastic objects.
For example, plastic bags or plastic bottles, plastic clothing.
So anything that broke down from usual wear and tear or because of any, yeah, mechanical force or anything will be considered secondary microplastics.
There are also different types of plastics themselves.
As, as in polymer types, we usually hear some of the most popular ones like polyline, polystyrene, maybe poly Ester.
Yeah.
So there are actually, we usually always mention like six or seven types, but there are actually way more of them like hundred types of plastic with a lot of different names that is really hard to pronounce and remember.
Okay.
And so when we're talking about microplastics, because they're so tiny, can we assume that all microplastics are being absorbed by our bodies if we come in contact with them? If you mean by skin, it's less likely to, oh, be true if it's microplastic because they're usually too big to penetrate our skin.
I mean, the skin is a barrier.
Yeah.
And it's, it does usually, it does a very good job.
When we talk about nanoplastic there, it's tricky because it's way smaller and.
It's still a very, very new area of research, so it's hard to tell.
Some researchers say that it could be possible that we can absorb n nanoplastic or at least the chemicals that are on top of plastics that we come in contact with.
But it's still very tricky to say, if I'm honest.
Oh my gosh there's so much to think about.
Not only the plastic and the microplastic, but now what's being put on top of the plastic kind of leaching into our skin.
Yeah, I would say that that is even a bigger problem than the microplastics itself because we use a lot of different chemicals on top and we even, uh, call microplastics cocktail of chemicals because, uh, yeah, during the production there is a lot of chemicals that are used.
Uh, some of them are okay.
Some of them could be potentially not good as we heard.
For example, PFAS forever Chemicals, BPA, um, the usual hormone disruptors how they call it flame retardant and so on.
And they can be quite problematic and that's what, uh, makes it even more hard to research microplastics because they also have this ability to absorb different chemicals.
So if you have the microplastic that came from larger plastic objects and they go into the environment and then they absorb different, different chemicals on, on their way, like heavy metals, they can absorb pesticides or anything else, then it's in the water.
And then you, um, drink this water, for example.
Yeah.
And we never know the effect because chemicals, like for example, there are two chemicals and they can cancel out each other or vice versa.
They can make the effect even stronger.
This is another difficulty in the research because you never know what kind of chemicals are on top of microplastics, and it could be very, very different.
So, yeah, that's so frustrating.
Okay, so in terms of long-term problems, what are we seeing? Are we seeing things like cancer be related Back to it, respiratory problems, obviously I mentioned, you know, the congregation of microplastics and semen analysis and cord blood and placenta tissue, things like that.
What should we know about how this microplastic interacts and stays with our body? Again, the research area is still very new.
We are, we still don't have a lot of good analytical techniques in order to first even quantify the amount of microplastics in our bodies.
And also of course to see the effect of, of them on our health.
It's still, again, it's really hard to tell, but from the very preliminary research that we see, it's not looking very good.
First, I would say, um, it's hormone disruptor because all of the plastic associated chemicals that I was talking about a lot of them were proven to be hormone disruptive.
So that's a big issue and that could lead to.
Endocrine disruptions to thyroid cancer and so on, and we can see it already getting higher and higher.
Unfortunately, even if you saw the very recent movie from Netflix on Plastic Your Life, I think it's called, and there are also talking a lot about this hormone disrupting abilities of plastics.
And in that movie, they are doing the experiment with where they try to remove all the plastics from, um, several couples who were trying to see if plastic has some effect on that.
And spoiler alert it had, oh, it does really.
I mean, it's like a very small experiment and it's totally not scientific, but I think it's a good, representation for us to see, or at least like preliminary data that we can draw some assumption from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanna talk about some places in our homes that have.
Plastics in them.
A lot of them I've learned from your Instagram page.
But before we do that, I'd like to talk about microplastics in our waterways and our food, because I think a lot of us think, you know, if I just change out the plastic Tupperware to glass and I change out my clothing to be natural fibers, then I'm, I'm gonna be covered.
But that's not true because a lot of our food and the water that we drink also have microplastics.
So.
Why is that? And also, are there things that we can do to stop that or reduce the amount of microplastics that we're consuming through our food and water? Yeah, that's very true.
And currently there are no regulations of microplastics in anywhere.
So I mean, your water can have any amount of microplastics.
It's not even monitored.
It's not that I'm saying that your water has like millions of or billions of microplastics, but it is just to say that even if it had millions, it'll not be monitored.
So you'll never know.
Regarding the food, it's the same, uh, no regulations.
And I actually worked in wastewater treatment plants in, in Kazakhstan, in Spain, in Germany, and none of them, not only, they don't have regulations, they on also don't have any monitoring programs.
So they're obliged.
To test their waters for different chemicals, like heavy metals, for example, but not for microplastics.
So the amount of microplastic they can discharge with water is like limitless.
So they can discharge any amount of microplastic with the water, and that's what they do.
So for example, in Kazakhstan, I think it was like a billion of microplastics per day that is discharged every day into the river directly already after all the treatment.
Yeah.
And it's Kazakhstan was, uh, it was in the capital with 1 million people, so we can imagine how worse it is in bigger cities.
And Asana had very good treatment systems, like all the treatment stages that you can have.
They had so.
It's, it's, it's a huge void in regulate, in regulations of microplastics.
Same with the food, as I said, uh, no regulations on pla on how many plastics you can have in food and plastic.
Some of the types of plastic are considered food safe.
Which doesn't mean they are not releasing microplastics.
Like for example, you have this food safe containers, you know, that you can put into microwave, like microwave safe, uh, but they are releasing so many microplastics every time you heat them.
That was one of the first things I actually changed.
When I became a microplastic researcher because I used to have, um, this plastic container and after that I couldn't, I changed to Glass container.
Yeah.
And.
When it comes to food, it depends on, on which food we're talking about, because some, they usually have less exposure to plastic and microplastic.
Some have more if I remember correctly, usually on top of microplastic contamination is any seafood because unfortunately a lot of plastic, they end up in the oceans.
Where fish can eat it.
Um, a lot of fish cannot distinguish between microplastic and plastic and food.
So they eat it and then we eat it.
So it's like a cycle of those plastics, uh, in our food chain.
First is seafood.
I also know that fruits and vegetables can have quite high microplastic content.
And this is actually a very big, uh, topic as well because we use a lot of plastics in agriculture.
Right now we use, um, for example, if you know the term mulching, mulching.
A lot of, um, mulching is done with plastic right now and it stays under sun, under the sun, under very hot conditions and sun plus heat plus plastic, it will equal to so many microplastic that is discharge directly into the soil and the thing with soil compared to water, because water always moves.
You know, so the amount of mi, the concentration of microplastics are spread out more, more or less evenly.
But when we put plastic into the soil, since soil is not moving a lot, if you put, for example, some plastic particle, it will stay more or less in the same area.
You know? So the concentration of microplastic will be high in some points, especially in those points where we put plastic mulch, for example.
And that's why Yeah.
Um, there's a lot of plastic in the soil and then plants can uptake microplastics from the soil.
Um, and that can result in quite high concentration of microplastic in fruits and vegetable.
That is not to say not to eat fruits and vegetables, but just to be aware that this is happening and this is becoming a very big issue since some of the researchers are saying that this could also affect the plant growth.
Um, they could see that the photosynthesis rates are decreasing because of the microplastics in the soil.
And right now they're seeing the decrease of between seven and 12% of photosynthesis just because of microplastics.
And this is not to mention other problems that we have, like climate change, you know? And just because of microplastic, we already have this reduction of photosynthesis which will eventually mean the reduction of food yield.
Okay, this is all this is.
Harrowing.
It reminds me of when I had Kelly Ryerson on the show.
She's known as the glyphosate girl, and it's very similar to the talks that we are having about glyphosate and the way that it congregates in the soil and the way that when you know, um, let's just say a cow eats food that has been sprayed with glyphosate, then it's in that meat, and then we eat it and it gets in our system.
Or we're eating fruits and vegetables that have been sprayed with glyphosate.
Like our food, unfortunately, is just so poisoned by the time it gets to us that it really, it almost feels like.
What can we do? So are there ways that we can, you know, reduce this? Should we be really prioritizing certain foods over others? Should we be prioritizing buying from local farms or purchasing organic when possible? Or if you cook it down, does it make it better or worse? What do we need to know about that? It's challenging to say I feel, especially right now that we're so plastic dependent, like it's everywhere and we don't have a lot of alternatives.
My first go-to cheap is just trying to reduce plastic that.
You have already or, yeah, like not using single use, having your reusable cup that is made of glass or steel or anything that is not plastic.
I would say that helps a lot already and it's a good first step because right now everything, if you are just, if it's just your first time hearing about microplastics, it will be so overwhelming Yeah.
To try to reduce everything.
And at one point you'll be like, okay, I'll, I'll just give up.
Like it's too much.
So I would just say trying to start with something small.
If you have a plastic cutting board, please, I beg you, remove it and, um, swap to something better.
Like, wooden glass or steel.
I don't know anything that's available.
Yeah, and, and start by little I would say prioritize kitchen because that's the point where we are exposed to the majority of microplastic in our daily life.
Um, then I would say with clothing, uh, where possible also try to opt for natural fabrics.
So instead of polyester, nylon, acrylics what else? There are so many names actually.
Um.
Elastic I dunno how it's properly called ela, I think.
Right.
That's how you see it here.
Yeah.
Rayon even is another one that's not great, I think.
Right? Like Rayon is not an awesome fabric.
Yeah.
I think it's heavily also processed.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's like bamboo or something like that.
Right.
But very heavily processed.
Yeah.
So I think it, it, it, it, it depends, like you have to see if there are any certification that are saying that there are.
That they're like organic or something like that, or like GOT certified that GOTS is what a lot of people are looking for these days.
Yeah.
That that's, that's for cotton.
Yeah, that's true.
Like cotton linen.
These are better alternatives.
I know that hemp is also a good thing.
Yeah.
Becoming more and more popular and.
I would say this, this is the last thing to do.
But if it's possible also to try and see if you have any personal care products with microplastic as ingredients, it's very tricky to find those without, but there, there exist.
But I would say like this is probably small amount of microplastics that you have there.
That's good because your Instagram reel about the sheet mask, it really ruined it for me.
I was like, oh no.
I love sheet masks so much.
And I will say it stuck with me because every time I put one on I'm like, ah, microplastics are getting into my system.
But you know, it's all about a balance.
It's really validating to hear you say where to start? So when I first started on this journey about four years ago, the very first thing I got rid of was my plastic containers in the kitchen.
And then I went to plastic cookware and I got rid of all of our plastic like spatulas and cooking spoons.
And I went to all wooden or stainless still.
And then we did pots and pans, so any Teflon that we had, we obviously got rid of those and went just to stainless steel cooking.
Um, or sorry, cutting boards were next.
So we use epicurean.
I hope that's good.
Do you know anything about the epicurean brand? Well, it's supposed to not be plastic.
Um, and it's, it's almost like diatomaceous earth, so it's like a hard type of natural stone that you, you can cut on.
Um, but we don't have plastic cutting boards either.
I do have a glass one, but that makes me a little nervous just in case it breaks.
But I started with our kitchen and we have no like plastic drinkware or anything like that, and we don't use plastic silverware.
And when I am interested in.
Let's say we, we host a large party of people, then we use paper plates, um, and that way we don't have plastic plates around too.
So it was good there.
And then the second thing also validating to hear you say is that, you know, start with your natural fiber.
So I got rid of, not all of them, I'm still working my way through my.
My yoga pants, because some of them I just can't part ways with.
But, when I purchased new yoga pants, I went with cotton or something that was really natural.
Um, and I have since started to wear a lot of linen.
So it's, it's hard, but it is doable and I think that one of the easiest ways that I found to do it was that.
When I got rid of a product, I would replace it with something better.
And for me, that was something that was really financially feasible instead of getting rid of everything that I currently use and just replacing it, which can feel really overwhelming mentally and emotionally, but also it can really be hard to finance that big of a life shift.
Yeah, that's true.
And I think that's a very good approach to do that because it's, it will be more.
Durable.
Yeah.
Sustainable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sustainable.
Make the, the, the change and then it'll stick rather than just like a big overhaul can just feel somewhat burnt out.
You know? You can get burnt out on that.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Okay.
So one of the things that, you know, I, I just talked about the sheet mask, but I learned about a bunch of household products that have microplastics in it that I think a lot of us probably don't realize.
I think, to me, the two top things were rugs in our home, which so many of us have, and then the gel strips around our razors that.
Blew my mind.
So can you tell us about other things around our home that aren't so obvious? I mean, I think when we look at a plastic water bottle, that one makes sense.
We're like, well, of course it's plastic, plastic bags from the grocery store, but things that we may not necessarily realize have microplastics in them.
That's actually my, my favorite topic to do because, there's so many hidden plastic that people are not thinking about.
Even when I just started, um, doing my microplastic research and I started to learn all of those hidden plastic sources, it was so interesting.
I mean, it was a bit scary.
And yeah, you realize that everything is covered in plastic, but at the same time, it's so interesting to see how many products you're not even thinking of that is made out of plastic.
But then you're like, okay, that's kinda.
That kind of makes sense that it's plastic.
So dental flaws is plastic, as I said, ingredients in personal care products can be plastic.
That one usually shocks people because they think, when I talk about microplastic in personal care products is like microplastic from the bottle or, or from the plastic packaging itself.
But no, it's the ingredients itself could be microplastic as well.
Glitter.
Some glitter can be made out of microplastic, clothing, as I said some paints could have microplastic as ingredients, acrylic nails.
Plastic.
Yeah.
And every time you go to the salon and you see when, um, you know, there's dust when they file 'em down.
Yeah.
Like file 'em down and you can see all this dust and it's like, it's just microplastics.
It's probably while they are wearing masks, we should probably wear a mask while when we we're getting our nails done.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Teflon pants.
So non-stick pants, they're covered with plastic.
PTFE.
Yeah, rags or any textiles actually can be made out of plastic.
So, pillows, uh, your furniture.
Everything, paper cups, it's a very misleading thing, like, you know, the language itself, it's like paper cups.
Yeah, it's paper on the outside, but the on, on the inside it's covered with the plastic layer.
The same with like instant noodles, you know? Mm-hmm.
It's also like this paper packaging, but inside there's a very thin plastic layer and also about your paper plates.
You should check them if that's like 100% paper or could it be that it's covered in a very thin layer of plastic? My gosh.
What about takeout containers? I mean, obviously the ones that are paper, but your food doesn't just leak through, so they must have the pap, they must have the plastic lining as well.
The one that looks like paper.
They're also they also have this very thin layer of plastic, even aluminum cans, you know.
Like, yeah, like soda cans.
Yeah, it's covered.
If you try and like Google, um, aluminum cans, plastic lining or so, or something like this, you will see some of the experiments where they are dissolving the aluminum part and they're left with like plastic bag inside.
So your drink is actually in a plastic bag that is covered in aluminum.
This is actually done because of the.
Drink.
Um, so they are, don't react with aluminum.
So there, there are nothing like corrosive effect.
Huh.
So the plastic is put there because I mean, we never consider microplastic as a problem.
So yeah, that's why it's better to have plastic inside than aluminum reacting with, with the drink.
Oh my god.
Yeah, I think there are some other things that is left in my list.
Yeah.
Face mask, as I said sometimes in cotton, like 100% cotton clothing, they could use plastic based thread.
So like this thread that you have on your clothing, they could be sometimes made out of plastic.
Tea bags.
tea bags can can be made out of plastic as well.
And even the paper ones that look like papers, they can sometimes have plastic based glues because I mean, if it was paper, then it would dissolve right in very hot water.
Yeah.
What about chewing gum? That was another one that I learned from your Instagram, and I was like, no, not gum.
Chewing gum is one of the shocking things for me.
When I first learned about it, I was like, this, this is probably fake, like how could this be? But yeah, chewing gum, the base of the chewing gum is made of poly polyvinyl acetate, PVA, uh, it's basically fla flavored plastic.
And there, there are very scarce research on that, but there are some research where they see that when you chew, uh, the microplastics are released into your saliva.
Not a huge amount of course, because the chewing gum is not big, but still some there are some brands actually that create natural gums.
Okay.
I think they're getting more and more popular, or at least here in Germany.
We do have some brands.
I think in the US you also have some very good brands you should change out.
Oh my gosh.
So you just walk through life and you're like, I can't enjoy this and I can't enjoy that.
And I can't enjoy this because there's microplastics in everything.
I still do have some things that are made out of plastic.
I understand that it's not possible at this point to remove everything.
Yeah, I try to remove those things that I can remove, but for example, I have my, um, hair dryer that's made out of plastic.
I mean, there are no other alternatives, and I know that it is probably releasing a lot of microplastic because it's getting heated a lot.
And yeah, as I say, plastic plus heat is equal to a lot of microplastics.
That's like a rule of thumb.
If there's one thing that you should learn from this podcast is this, heat plus plus plastic is equal to many microplastics.
I mean, there's no alternative, so I'm still using that because I cannot not use it.
And same with other things like for example, shoes.
I mean, most of the shoes are made out of plastic as well.
What can you do? I cannot go like barefoot.
We're always in leather shoes as well.
It's, it's also expensive and geez.
Oh my gosh.
So when we're thinking about, let's go back to your hair dryer example.
You're obviously not eating that, but are you concerned about it being in the air and then we're breathing it in? Is that the idea? Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Because for example there was a research there, actually several research that is done on, you know, how it's called machine dryers.
Oh yeah.
Dry, dry machines.
Yeah.
Not the washing machine, but dryer machine.
Yeah.
When you put like your synthetic clothing into that, they are releasing microplastic directly into the air every time you use the dryer machine.
And the amount of microplastic, I don't remember exactly, but it was quite high, I would say in millions.
Yeah.
Wow.
Every day.
How much microplastic do you think we come in contact with? Is it just like constant? It's all the time.
I think so.
Yeah.
I mean, it's in the air.
We do have a lot of pla I mean, if you just look around you, you will see so many plastic objects.
Yeah.
Like, probably like 60% of everything you own is plastic.
So it's really hard to tell the amount.
And it's really tricky to count that as well.
I mean, there's some, very popular statements that we eat a credit card worth of plastic every week.
But I'm not sure if this is 100% true because this comes from one paper that is quite flawed.
So it could be more than that.
It could be less than that.
Got it.
And what about silicone? Is silicone better? I, I know I've learned from your Instagram that.
Silicone still releases microplastics, so you're not getting rid of microplastics altogether, but it's gotta be a little better.
Mm-hmm.
So silicone is a type of plastic, which is usually very confusing for a lot of people, and they argue with me that it is not, but it is a type of plastic.
It's just different type of plastic.
It's not made of, for example.
All the conventional plastic that we're talking about, they are oil based, right? They're petrochemicals.
Um, when it comes to silicone, it's not.
So in that terms, I would say it's better.
It still releases microplastic because it's a type of plastic and everything releases small particles.
Even metal can release very, very small particles like you cannot see them, so the silicon does as well.
And.
I would say that these microplastics are way different than the microplastic from conventional plastics.
I cannot say, how better is that? Because then we need to do more research and see and actually compare.
And the comparison for that is like I couldn't find a lot.
Like even when you try to Google it's silicon plastic, you'll see so many websites misleading and telling you that silicon is not plastic.
But, technically it is.
So it's very diff difficult and not a lot of people researched silicon as well and compared it, especially the microplastic from silicon.
So there are like five papers maybe in total, or at least that's what I could find.
So it's difficult to say to what extent it's better, but I think it should be better.
At least from the material it's made, it's, it's not petrochemicals, it's not oil.
Hmm.
So it's not a hundred percent, but it is better than plastic, obviously.
Yeah.
It's just, I don't know.
Yeah.
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Okay.
And one of the things I think that struck me as a mom that I learned from you is that wet wipes or baby wipes have microplastics in them, which is so terrifying, right? You have this brand new newborn, you have this little baby who is so pure and unfortunately, they probably have microplastics in them just because of our lifestyles, and we know that they're found in the placenta and cord blood and all that jazz.
But we want to do better for our babies.
We want to be managing and controlling the amount of microplastics that we do allow to come in contact with their body.
What do we need to know about baby wipes and are there better alternatives? Should we be making our own baby wipes at home in order to avoid microplastics? So this thing, the thing with babies in plastic, it's so sad because babies are exposed to even more microplastics.
Especially when you see a baby food is usually either prepared in plastic or they're consuming from plastic.
All the baby cutlery is made out of plastic.
Yeah, baby toys are plastic and they usually put every toy in their mouth, you know? Yeah.
Same with clothing and so on.
And for example, again, circling back to the racks, if they're made out of plastic, which is usually the case, and you put your baby to this racks and they again put everything into their mouth so they.
Disproportionately exposed to microplastics.
And that's very sad.
And when we talk about baby wipes, yeah, they are made of plastic because again, if it was paper, it would dissolve, and if it was cotton, it would be very more expensive.
But.
When I made this video about baby vibes I think there were several people commenting that they could find some plastic free wipes, wet wipes.
Oh, on the internet.
Yeah.
I, I myself didn't Google that because I don't have a baby and I don't have a huge need in wet wipes.
So that wasn't interesting for me.
But I think you can find some alternatives.
Of course, there's not a lot.
But I think you can find something.
Maybe also as you said, like DIYing could be Yeah.
Um, another thing to do.
But maybe baby wipes is not the biggest source of microplastics, I would say.
It's still everything that is, that goes around food, you know.
Oh yeah.
So you think it's all, it's, it's more important to prioritize maybe baby bottles.
And again, to your point of heating it up or heating up baby bottles.
So if you can opt for glass, opt for glass.
Mm-hmm.
Baby bottles instead of plastic and pacifiers are silicone nipples, so that's kind of hard.
Maybe stainless steel plates and cups and utensils.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's better than glass because glass then can, can break, which is also quite, um, dangerous, right? So maybe like metals or wood.
Okay.
Yeah, wood.
When I think about the toys that we registered for a lot of them were wooden and I, I was really sure to make sure that it wasn't engineered wood, but true, like truly wood, um, real wood instead of engineered wood because engineered wood obviously is, is synthetic and it has a lot of, I assume, microplastics and if not microplastics, definitely a lot of chemicals in the processing.
Part of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would also say that it is important to see PFAS even though it's really hard to find.
But if it, if something is covered is treated with PFAS, it's also important that your kids are not exposed to PFAS because they're, um, more susceptible to hormone disruptors than us.
I, I do have some researchers who have kids and they try to avoid PFAS, um, like my colleagues.
My friends, so I, I would say it's important as well.
Maybe a bit more important than plastic itself.
Oh, really? Yeah, I would, I would think so.
Because it's forever.
And microplastics can eventually be kind of pushed out of your body, or, or how come you're saying it's more important? I would say because, um, PFAS is more proven to cause.
Problem.
Yeah.
Like endocrine, disrupt disruptions.
And for microplastics it's still unclear.
Yeah.
I mean, if you, if it's possible, of course, both should be avoided taking precautionary methods.
But if it's, it depends on the, the, the type of plastic as well.
For example, if it's a bioplastic, it could be a bit better.
Hmm.
And when you talk about avoiding PFAS.
What type of things does that mean avoiding? It could be different clothing that is treated with PFAS, especially those that are water repellent.
I mean, PFAS is usually the thing that repels water.
Okay.
Um, so that's why, for example, the non-stick pants are treated with PFAS clothing, like, you know, outdoor clothing.
They are jacket.
Yeah, oftentimes they are treated with PFAS.
For example, in my lab where I work right now, we, we buy specific jackets that are not treated with PFAS because we also do tests for PFAS.
So it is possible to find those.
Okay.
All um, it's not impossible.
It's difficult, but not as, not impossible.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think maybe it could be like, yeah, different clothing, shoes.
And some toys.
Some toys can be treated with PFAs for some time.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Gosh, if you are looking for a guide for a low tox baby registry, I spent several months building my own registry, um, and I've put it into a guide.
I'll link that in the show notes for you guys so that you can download that and, and hopefully get a good starting point on your own baby registry.
For low tox things some things are not, some things are really difficult, like car seats.
They are required to have flame retardants on them per the laws around car seats.
So that one is really hard, right? Things like baby mattresses.
There are very few companies that make high quality GOT certified organic cotton baby mattresses, things like that.
But I did, I I have a guide and I'll link that for you guys.
Okay.
So Dana, the next thing I kind of wanted to talk about was period products.
Because as women, obviously every month we want to reduce the amount of microplastics that we are putting in one of our most.
Sensitive regions on our bodies.
What should we know about pads and tampons and menstrual cups? Yeah, that's also a very good question.
A lot of period pads, again, it's not made out of paper because if it was paper, it would dissolve.
So most of the times they're made out of synthetic materials, polyester again or polyurethane sometimes as well.
So we're talking about period pads, some tampons as well could be made out of plastic and especially when it comes to tampons.
And yeah, we are putting in the most intimate area.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and as I said, again, there are some plastic associated chemicals that are also endocrine disruptors.
So this could be a very challenging, tricky situation.
So I also try to say PE to people, to women that they're try to find plastic free alternatives when possible.
And there are some good alternatives like cotton pads that are more expensive, but they're also reusable period pads.
I understand that it's not like ideal.
It's not very convenient, but it's cheaper and it's also plastic free because you can find some that are made out of cotton, uh, a hundred percent cotton, but it's also more sustainable for the planet because then you don't have this huge amount of plastic that you use for yeah, every month and you just dispose of it every time.
And, um, I would say that menstrual cups are a good alternatives as well, even though it's made out of silicone.
I would say it's still better than putting like petrochemical plastic Yeah.
Inside your body.
Yeah.
I, um, I think that, you know, I keep going back to it, to microplastics being in.
The placenta and the cord blood.
But if we think about how we're treating our, you know, female organs every month.
It makes sense that there would be microplastics kind of congregated in our uterine area or our pelvic region, especially if month after month they're being exposed to PFAS and bleach in certain period products and these microplastics.
Um, so just, you know, I agree with you that.
Reusable is not convenient.
And that for some people it's gonna be a really big lifestyle adjustment.
But if you think about long-term health, especially if you're trying to conceive or you're thinking about expanding your family anytime soon think about making these shifts.
Now with that, I think I have the question about.
Once there's microplastics in our body, do we have any research or knowledge about getting these microplastics out of our body? So for example, you know, they say you need sperm health.
You want to kind of think about sperm health three to six months before you try to conceive.
Do we see that same thing with microplastics in our body, that we need a certain amount of time to kind of filter them through our bodies? Yeah, actually I mean there's not a lot of research about that again, but there was some research that was done on fish, and I understand that fish and humans are very different, but they could see that when they put fish into the clean water, that is free more or less from microplastics that in some amount of days, I don't remember exactly, maybe in a month or so.
They, they decrease the amount of microplastic in their bodies by 70%.
Wow.
Okay.
So I understand we're not fish, of course, but I would say that our body is capable of filtering all those things out as well.
As long as we are not exposed to huge amounts of microplastics, we're still gonna be exposed, of course, because plastic is already a huge huge, uh, part of our lives.
But if we start to remove it, um, slowly, step by step.
Our body will be capable of removing microplastics, um, as, as long as we are reducing the exposure, which is actually very good.
And on another side of this topic, I saw a lot of like biohacking tips on how to remove microplastic, which I don't believe in.
I don't think like going to sauna or donating blood for removing microplastic is really efficient and good.
Or for example if you heard the news, uh, I think it was last year when Orlando Bloom, I think did, um like blood cleansing to remove microplastics and suddenly like this.
And he spent like so many thousands of dollars to do this treatment.
And I think that this is so unnecessary, especially when it comes to microplastic, because yeah, you will remove them and then if you don't do any changes to your lifestyle, you'll just get exposed to this, the same amount of microplastic, and you will just get the same amount of microplastic in like couple of weeks.
So I think it's more important to remove my, like plastic as a source.
In the first place.
Um, rather than going for this, you know, quick tips, quick hacks to do to remove microplastics.
So think more sustainable, long-term lifestyle shift of reducing your overall exposure and then trusting that your body can kind of handle the, the low level exposure that we almost can't get rid of.
Like we can't stop breathing air outside.
So we are going to be exposed to some microplastics, right? We can't.
Unless you're just never gonna take takeout, you aren't gonna not have your food in some plastic.
But what you can do is when you get home, take it from the takeout container and put it into a glass jar or a glass container in your home.
Buy the natural fibers.
And then again, something that I learned from you.
I've learned so much.
I continue to say that, but I have literally learned so much from your Instagram.
You are a big proponent of washing your clothes less.
Tell us.
Yeah.
Yeah, that is not a very good thing to hear about myself.
But yeah.
Um, there is also research about like washing clothing and washing machines, uh, are one of the biggest sources of microplastics in the environment actually.
So there are three things.
First is car tires because car tires are actually made out of microplastics and they're not filtered in, in, in the rain basins.
Uh, and they directly are discharged into our environment.
Second is food packaging.
Because there's a lot of food packaging and most of it is made out of plastic.
Like if you go to the supermarket, you'll see everything is covered in plastic.
And third is definitely clothing and textiles.
Uh, because around 70% of all clothing nowadays is made out of plastic.
From synthetic materials and yeah.
And washing machines can be one of the biggest, um, sources of microplastics in the environment because every time you wash your, uh, synthetic clothing, it gets into contact with, um, hot water.
There's a lot of movement there, a lot of physical abrasions and so on.
And they'll re release a lot of microplastics.
I don't remember the numbers.
Exactly.
It was something like per one load, there were 6 million microplastics, if I remember correctly, or something in that range.
Just one, one load of synthetic clothing.
So yeah, I always advocate for trying to yeah, reduce your frequency of washing if it's possible, because if you air dry your clothing, for example it gets a bit better so you can extend the wear of your clothing.
That's a good idea.
And hey, I don't think any mom listening is gonna be like, oh no, Dana's gonna wash less, like do less laundry.
No, Dana, I feel like everyone's like, yes, Dana.
Less laundry.
Woo hoo.
So this is, that's perfect.
That's so great for all the moms listening.
The other thing that I found really, really interesting.
Is a way to support your gut health with filtering out the, the microplastics by eating fermented food because of the probiotics.
Yeah.
That's one of the only bio hacks that I'm talking about because there is some research that says that fermented food in general, it helps your gut health and it's good even without microplastics.
But there was some research and they saw that fermented foods like yogurt, kimchi, they can actually, they cannot remove microplastics from your gut, but at least they can detoxify your microplastics.
So all those toxins and chemicals on top of the microplastic that can be potentially bad for your gut.
Those fermented foods can help to try and detoxify that, which is good.
Yeah, that's good.
Okay.
I think my last question is, you know, we've talked about lifestyle changes.
We've talked about changing your clothing and the things in your kitchen and your period products, and being mindful about what you use around your baby.
What about our long-term footprint? How would someone go about reducing their microplastic footprint? Thinking, you know, kind of their whole lifespan? How, what would that look like? I would say removing plastic in your life.
As much as possible in general.
Yeah.
But I would say it's also very important for us to advocate for regulations and to put cap on plastic production because it's not only the overconsumption issue, but also the overproduction issue.
And they go hand in hand, unfortunately.
And we need to also pressure that side.
So not all the blame and all the pressure is on us because there's also a, a huge amount of, um, blame on their side, on the industries that are creating so much plastic and make us plastic dependent so much that we cannot find a lot of plastic free alternatives.
So it's also very important to pressure that side.
For ion.
I also always mention and advocate for regulation on wastewater treatment plants, because as I said, any amount of microplastic can be discharged.
Which is, which is still crazy to me.
And that could be anywhere in the world.
Like not a single country has a regulation on how much microplastics can be discharged into the environment.
Yes, yes.
So you, you are basically allowed to release as much microplastic as is possible, and you will not be fined or monitored.
And I always tell this.
Uh, on my social media because it's very important that we also have some regulations on that.
Regulations on water.
So our water that also comes to us that we drink should be also regulated for microplastics in, and filtered for microplastics.
Yeah, I think that those two things are important.
So advocating for regulations and trying to remove plastics in your life where it's possible.
Are these industries choosing to use plastics so prominently because it is so much cheaper? Is that why? Yeah, that is one of the reason it's cheap.
It's also very accessible and oil, there's a lot of subsidies on oil as well.
I would say that plastic is also a versatile material, so it's very easy to create anything out of plastic, which makes it very convenient.
And not to make plastic too much demonized because there are some very good sites to plastics as well, because it helped medicine and science progress a lot.
Okay.
Uh, I mean, you wouldn't want to have a reusable needle, re not the needle, but reusable, um, syringe.
Syringe.
Yeah.
Like it wouldn't be ideal, right? To have one syringe used like among hundreds of people.
So it's really nice that we have those disposable syringes, for example, and this is just an example, and science also progressed a lot because of plastic.
A lot of materials became cheaper.
And more accessible even to those slops that don't have a lot of bud budget.
So there are some good things, uh, about plastics as well.
It's just the problem with, again, over consumption and overproduction and plastic in those areas we don't, where we don't actually need plastic.
Like again plastic clothing or plastic cutlery.
Or food containers could very easily be, you know, made out of cotton or wood or anything like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Cool.
This has been a really fascinating conversation.
A little harrowing, and, and I gotta be honest, I don't think I realized how much plastic was in our life.
I thought I had done a really good job and I, I do think that I've done a really good job, but I still have more room to grow around their home, especially considering we have a newborn in our home.
Um, and we will eventually have more children.
So I definitely have room to grow.
And you guys, if you're listening and you're feeling overwhelmed, just know that I'm on year five of this journey.
I started this journey four years ago.
Um, and so it is, it is something that you do day by day.
And like I say, as you use up some products or as you get rid of something, just buy better the next time.
Don't try and take this on all at once.
It will be too overwhelming and, and you just won't do it.
So just do it in small increments.
Okay, Dana, you have created a really cool app that will help people identify and find microplastics.
Tell us about that.
Yeah.
Um, we created the microplastic free app where you can learn about microplastics more.
Um, there are some educational lessons that I wrote myself with the help of other microplastic researchers so you can learn what are microplastics in general, what are the types of microplastics and so on.
And there is also a scanner feature with which you can take pictures of different products.
So we have scanner for food products, for clothing tag, and for personal care products, ingredient lists.
So you can take a picture and it will tell you the microplastic risk score.
Um, it's based on different research papers that we try to put inside of the scanner.
And there's also a petition feature.
We only have two petitions there.
But it's also nice if people will sign that because it's important.
It's about the regulations of microplastics and we try to make it as accessible as possible.
So most of it is free.
Only the scanner feature is paid, but even then you have like one scan daily for free, I think.
Yeah.
Cool.
That is so awesome.
I, um, I know that microplastics are on everybody's mind, especially in my audience where so many of us are pregnant or trying to conceive or we are newly postpartum and now learning how to protect our newborns and our babies from microplastics.
Um, so this was really, really fascinating.
If people wanted to learn further from you, work with you or learn about the research that you're doing, where can people connect with you? Definitely Instagram or TikTok.
Um, my name there is dankazh but you will also link it, I think, right? Well, yeah, and also on LinkedIn.
My name there is Dana that as well.
But yeah, these are the main, um, platforms I use.
Cool.
Well, thank you so much, Dana, for being here and you guys, I hope that this was a really interesting conversation.
I know that many of you have come to me asking about education around microplastics.
I know that it is on your mind.
I know that creating a low talks home is really important to so many of you, as it is to me as well.
I know that.
You know, we want the best for our babies, and the more that we learn about the things that are in our environment that may be harmful to us and our families long term, the more these things are going to be on our mind.
And you know what I say? The more that we talk about these things, the more commonplace that they will become, and hopefully we can start to see our government agency start to support these efforts as well.
All right, you guys, I will see you in the next episode.
Be sure to follow Dana on social media and you can't find me at Tranquility by hehe and at the birth lounge.
Until next time, head to your app store and download the Birth lounge app for evidence-based childbirth education and data-driven postpartum support delivered straight to your phone.
Bye.
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
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