Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Subway sandwich pervy pitchman Jared Fogle claims he was tricked into guilty plea on child porn; Hart family careens over cliff to their death…was it intentional?

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Subway sandwich pervy pitchman Jared Fogle claims he was tricked into guilty plea on child porn; Hart family careens over cliff to their death…was it intentional? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:10
Speaker 1: Channel one two. I don't know about you, but I
0:18
Speaker 1: got hooked on subway sandwiches because of Jared Fogel, because
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Speaker 1: he would do all the ads where he weighed like
0:24
Speaker 1: almost three hundred pounds and then he did a self
0:27
Speaker 1: imposed diet of just eating subway sandwiches, the healthy ones
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Speaker 1: and lost down to his goal weight. And so many
0:35
Speaker 1: people across the country thought, wow, if he can do
0:38
Speaker 1: that eating subway, so can I. Yeah. Well, he was convicted,
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Speaker 1: convicted for freaky, freaky attempts at having sex with children,
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Speaker 1: distribution of child pornography, and actually having sex with miners.
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Speaker 1: And in the last hours we learned Jared Fogel, former
1:03
Speaker 1: subway pitch guy extraordinaire, it's actually seeking release from federal prison.
1:11
Speaker 1: I mean, he's busted dead and the water. Now hold
1:15
Speaker 1: this image. Every Christmas, I take the Twins ice skating
1:20
Speaker 1: in New York City, Okay, at Rockfeller Center. And then
1:25
Speaker 1: where do we go the plaza in the hopes of
1:28
Speaker 1: seeing Eloise, Right, remember Eloise who lives at the top
1:34
Speaker 1: of the plaza with her nanny, and we go have
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Speaker 1: Eloise t all right, how did I know Jared Fogel
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Speaker 1: is up slung up in the plaza having sex with
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Speaker 1: a minor while I'm downstairs with Lucy and John David
1:49
Speaker 1: having Eloise t Believe you me, I want justice. It'll
1:54
Speaker 1: be over my cold dead body that Jared Fogel gets
1:58
Speaker 1: released early from a role prison. If you don't believe me,
2:02
Speaker 1: listen to Bogel himself. You must go crazy with your
2:06
Speaker 1: travels because you get to go and tell the different schools,
2:10
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. Give me, don't I want
2:15
Speaker 1: you to? I mean, I'm sure you have a lot
2:20
Speaker 1: of stories. I want you to tell me some of
2:23
Speaker 1: them saw that I don't know. It's just I like
2:27
Speaker 1: to appreciately. I'm in the middle school that I love
2:29
Speaker 1: the middle school, you know, yeah, because you know how
2:35
Speaker 1: much I love you know, m hmm, Okay, well, you
2:42
Speaker 1: know kids are maturing faster nowadays. I don't know what
2:45
Speaker 1: I love. And that's why I think it's wonderful of view,
2:49
Speaker 1: is that you're able to get in early. You know,
2:51
Speaker 1: I mean you could totally you know, you totally went
2:55
Speaker 1: him over, which is what I love. You like that
2:59
Speaker 1: I do love up. Tell me? How will you tell me?
3:01
Speaker 1: How to do that, you know, just talk to them,
3:05
Speaker 1: just get to no one, just everything and just you know,
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Speaker 1: do a little touchy feelings things with them. You now
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Speaker 1: make no good and it's a little more touchy feeling,
3:15
Speaker 1: a little more touchy feeling, a little more touchy feeling
3:19
Speaker 1: and that's that kind of stuff. Yeah mm hmm, okay,
3:25
Speaker 1: I mean that would be amazing. What what what ages
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Speaker 1: seems to be the easiest, you know, I don't know
3:35
Speaker 1: how I feel like, you know, early middle school applying
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Speaker 1: one of the best. You know, they don't have to
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Speaker 1: come I going mm hmm. I can see you a
3:46
Speaker 1: young you know, six seventh grade? Are you know this?
3:51
Speaker 1: And they're up there? You right with that? You need
3:56
Speaker 1: to find out how if they'd be all right with that?
4:00
Speaker 1: I know who we are without they're very much into
4:03
Speaker 1: exploring and you know this, mat don't get the money side,
4:08
Speaker 1: you know, and that song confess that. I'm just curious.
4:11
Speaker 1: I don't know how to how to do that. Just
4:14
Speaker 1: be friendly to them, Yeah, just do you normally would
4:19
Speaker 1: do maybe a year so from me anyway, m hm.
4:24
Speaker 1: You know, now we need to sort of go from
4:26
Speaker 1: there and the intail case by case, you know, there's
4:30
Speaker 1: no there's no right way, wrong way, whatever, you know.
4:35
Speaker 1: I actually feel nauseous hearing that, Cheryl McCollum, m Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute Director. I have tried a lot of
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Speaker 1: child molestation cases, but typically they defendant did not take
4:51
Speaker 1: the stand because they knew I would chew them a
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Speaker 1: new tail hole on cross examination. So it's very rare
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Speaker 1: you actually actually get to hear the purv speaking. That
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Speaker 1: was tapes played on My friend Dr Fields show. They
5:10
Speaker 1: were tapes obtained by Rochelle Herman Walrond, a woman who
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Speaker 1: befriended Jared Fogel and then took these secret tapes. So Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: we are hearing him and his unfiltered state talking about
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Speaker 1: how he likes little middle school girls. That's like fourth
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Speaker 1: grade girls, stancy. The fear is when this person is released,
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Speaker 1: their sexual attraction is the same. And that is what
5:39
Speaker 1: people in power do not understand. If you are attracted
5:43
Speaker 1: to pick gray girls, that does not go away. If
5:49
Speaker 1: you are attracted to five year old boys, that does
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Speaker 1: not go away any more than whatever your sexual attraction is.
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Speaker 1: If you think Halle Barry is sexy, she's gonna be sexy.
6:02
Speaker 1: Whether you go to counseling or not to you. This
6:06
Speaker 1: is a large problem where people say, oh, sending the counseling,
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Speaker 1: gending the prison, then they'll learn their lessons. No, if
6:14
Speaker 1: I see a commercial with Matthew McConaughey, that man is
6:18
Speaker 1: fine a tale, Nancy. There ain't no amount of counselors.
6:21
Speaker 1: Don't change my mind about that. Believe it. So, if
6:25
Speaker 1: you've got somebody then is telling you straight up, I
6:29
Speaker 1: like middle school girls. Keep his ask in prison. Eloquently spoken,
6:35
Speaker 1: Cheryl eloquently spoke with me from heavy dot com. Is
6:39
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Jennifer Zakowski. Jennifer, you're awesome and so is
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Speaker 1: your website. What is this business about Jared Fogel getting
6:51
Speaker 1: out of prison? He just got put in prison for
6:53
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, Yes he did, and you know, part of
6:57
Speaker 1: me thinks he just being in the spotlight. And you know,
7:03
Speaker 1: according to Routers, he is trying to be released from
7:06
Speaker 1: the federal prison. He's staying that in Colorado, he's claiming
7:10
Speaker 1: his guilty plea in the child pornography case was based
7:14
Speaker 1: on an illegal conspiracy charge and should be thrown out.
7:19
Speaker 1: So he's actually claiming that he wouldn't have pleaded guilty
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Speaker 1: except for the improper charge, and said being imprisoned is
7:27
Speaker 1: violating his due process under the United States Constitution. And
7:34
Speaker 1: you know, the reason he's saying it was unlawful is
7:36
Speaker 1: because it included a charge of conspiracy, which he's saying
7:40
Speaker 1: is not covered by the text of a federal law
7:43
Speaker 1: concerning sexual misconduct involving miners. And and there's really two
7:49
Speaker 1: parts to this, because TMZ is reporting that he's suing
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Speaker 1: the judge and the prosecutors in the child pornography case
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Speaker 1: for fifty seven million dollars. And they're saying, rather than
8:02
Speaker 1: trying to get out of prison, his focus is on
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Speaker 1: a financial legal gain over the justice system department employees
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Speaker 1: who put them away. WHOA So let me understand this. Uh?
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Speaker 1: Did I did I hear this correctly? To Sheryl McCollum.
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Speaker 1: Did Jennifer Sigowski from heavy dot com just say that
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Speaker 1: Jared Fogel is actually suing the prosecutors? Is that right?
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Speaker 1: For fifty seven millions, not sixty, not fifty five, fifty
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Speaker 1: seven millions. That's an odd number, just like his odd
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Speaker 1: sexual behaker. Hang on, it's not just the prosecutors Jared
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Speaker 1: Fogel is also naming u S Attorney General Jeff's Sessions
8:43
Speaker 1: in his complaints, saying Sessions failed to correct a clear error,
8:48
Speaker 1: and for good measure, vocals blaming President Trump too. You
8:51
Speaker 1: know it never failed. Just to amaze me, this guy
8:56
Speaker 1: praying on young children and he's busted having them brought
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Speaker 1: to his hotel room at the Plaza in New York City,
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Speaker 1: and and the lord only knows where else so he
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Speaker 1: could have sex with children, and now he's suing. You
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Speaker 1: heard me, right? Dr Chloe Carmichael, new York psychologist, founder
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Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot com. Dr Chloe, I agree with
9:24
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, but my knowledge of this is anecdotal. I'm
9:27
Speaker 1: not a doctor, I'm not a shrink. I'm a j D,
9:30
Speaker 1: not an m D. But every person I've ever seen
9:34
Speaker 1: that child molested our statutory raped um that was an adult.
9:40
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a few exceptions where seventeen year
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Speaker 1: old boy will be with a fifteen year old girl
9:45
Speaker 1: and it's construed as child rape. I'm talking about adult
9:48
Speaker 1: adults with children. I've never seen an instance where that
9:54
Speaker 1: was quote cured. That's a crime, that's pedophilia, that is
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Speaker 1: a crime I agree with. Surely you can't go to
10:03
Speaker 1: jail and get quote cured. Well, Nancy, I can certainly
10:07
Speaker 1: see why you would feel that way, And I'm not
10:09
Speaker 1: only inclined to agree to agree with you personally, but
10:12
Speaker 1: that is actually what the research says as well. So
10:16
Speaker 1: podophiles actually very rarely learned to stop being attracted, you know,
10:21
Speaker 1: just as what's being said. If you know you you
10:23
Speaker 1: are attracted to Matthew but kind of hey, you know, no, uh,
10:26
Speaker 1: counseling is going to change that. But what pedophiles do
10:29
Speaker 1: learn how to do, UM is how to at least
10:32
Speaker 1: control their urges, not act upon their urges. But in
10:36
Speaker 1: order for them to learn that, they have to be
10:38
Speaker 1: willing to learn UM they have too many pedophiles hate
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Speaker 1: themselves and hate their urges and are just at least
10:47
Speaker 1: grateful if they can learn how to not act on them.
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Speaker 1: Jared doesn't seem to feel that there's anything wrong with
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Speaker 1: his urges, so in addition to being a pedophile, UM,
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Speaker 1: it's also quite possible that he maybe a psychopath. But
11:01
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't seem to have any concern at
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Speaker 1: all for how this is affecting you know, anybody else
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Speaker 1: and the idea that he thinks he should be released
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Speaker 1: from prison and that he can, you know, sue the prosecutors.
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Speaker 1: This type of entitlement that he has, combined with his pedosphilia,
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Speaker 1: I think it does make him a very poor candidate
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Speaker 1: for somebody that would ever really be rehabilitated. He doesn't
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Speaker 1: want to be rehability rehabilitated. This is like an alcoholic.
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Speaker 1: They have to want to stop drinking. He doesn't want
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Speaker 1: to stop. He wants to continue. Back to Jennifer Tsikowski,
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Speaker 1: reporter with heavy dot Com, Jennifer. Right now, Jared Fogel,
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Speaker 1: former Subway pitchman, is trying to be released from a
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Speaker 1: Colorado federal prison. He became famous in two thousand after
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Speaker 1: he credited Subway for a huge weight loss. Now, his
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Speaker 1: guilty plea was based partially on an illegal conspiracy charge
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Speaker 1: that dealt with child pornography, but there were so many
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Speaker 1: other counts. There was the actual transferring children across state
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Speaker 1: lines to have sex with them in hotels. Uh, he
12:14
Speaker 1: pled guilty to having sex with children. I mean, how
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Speaker 1: could that be thrown out, Jennifer. That has nothing to
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Speaker 1: do with the conspiracy, doesn't No, one would not think so,
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Speaker 1: And no, it doesn't make any sense. Like you said,
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Speaker 1: he admitted to these charges. He pleaded guilty, So I'm
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Speaker 1: not exactly sure. Um. I mean, just like the last
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Speaker 1: person said, he doesn't want to control his urges. He
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Speaker 1: has this sense of entitlements, and I'm not exactly sure
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Speaker 1: how he would think that he could uh get out
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Speaker 1: of prison at this point. Well another thing, uh, Cheryl McCullum,
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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case, frees her institute. This is
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Speaker 1: not his first try to get out of jail. Just
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Speaker 1: this year, he tried to get out claiming the judge
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Speaker 1: in his case was biased because she had teen girls. Okay,
13:13
Speaker 1: I'm getting that from the indie star. Well, actually the
13:16
Speaker 1: judge had one daughter and she's grown. All in all,
13:20
Speaker 1: since he was sentenced, he has filed dozens and dozens
13:24
Speaker 1: of motions to either get his sentence reduced or just
13:28
Speaker 1: thrown out. So this guy is not giving up. He
13:32
Speaker 1: claims that his plea his guilty plea. Let me remind you,
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Speaker 1: it's a guilty place now jury trial. He swore under
13:39
Speaker 1: oath he was guilty. Okay, so it's not like he
13:42
Speaker 1: was wrongly convicted. He stood up and swore he was guilty.
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Speaker 1: He's now claiming his plea was unconstitutional. Cheryl, not only
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Speaker 1: did he plead guilty. The only thing he's arguing now
13:54
Speaker 1: is technicality. He still like saying he didn't do it.
13:58
Speaker 1: He hasn't yet said, y'all got the wrong guy. I
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Speaker 1: wasn't there, It wasn't me. I wouldn't do it. He said, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I did it. Let me out, so freaking do it again.
14:08
Speaker 1: That's all this is about. He walked out. There's a
14:11
Speaker 1: ton of people that can watch provoted movie, whether it's
14:15
Speaker 1: The Reality or Three Films or whatever, but they don't
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Speaker 1: act on it. This man has already acted on it.
14:23
Speaker 1: He has passed that threshold of return. He is a
14:27
Speaker 1: dangerous predator period. He pled guilty the Subway Sandwich pitch
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Speaker 1: Man to federal charges of conspiracy to distribute and receive
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Speaker 1: child porn, traveling across state lines to have sex contact
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Speaker 1: with a minor. He agreed to pay a hundred thousand
14:45
Speaker 1: dollars to each of fourteen unnamed children. Those are the
14:51
Speaker 1: ones that we know of, and he's gonna do at
14:55
Speaker 1: least fifteen years behind bars. He has been trying every
15:00
Speaker 1: which way to get out of jail and he's got
15:03
Speaker 1: the money to hire lawyers to do it. That's the problem.
15:08
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York Psychologists, founder of Anxiety tools
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Speaker 1: dot com. Why can't he just serve his time and
15:16
Speaker 1: try to improve himself or rehab himself behind bars. All
15:20
Speaker 1: he's doing behind bars is trying to say the system
15:24
Speaker 1: tricked him. He pled guilty. It wasn't a trial. There
15:27
Speaker 1: are no errors at trial. He stood up in court
15:30
Speaker 1: under and pled guilty to these charges. So what is
15:34
Speaker 1: his mindset? Dr Chloe Well quest Nancy. It's difficult to
15:38
Speaker 1: say what his mindset is, but I can you know,
15:41
Speaker 1: certainly speculate that he may have seen in our society
15:44
Speaker 1: that unfortunately, um you know, many times of perpetrators will
15:49
Speaker 1: play the victim card, and he has probably seen that
15:53
Speaker 1: card played successfully many times. As you pointed out, it
15:57
Speaker 1: seems clear that his goal is simply take it out
15:59
Speaker 1: of risen and to get right back to what he
16:02
Speaker 1: was doing before. Um So I imagine he's willing to
16:06
Speaker 1: avail himself as any strategy that he thinks might more work,
16:09
Speaker 1: including becoming vindictive towards you know what. As I always
16:14
Speaker 1: used to say, be careful what you ask my dear,
16:18
Speaker 1: for you will surely get it now, Oscar Wild said
16:22
Speaker 1: at first, but it applies here. You know what, go
16:24
Speaker 1: on and back out of that guilty plea, Vogel. Let's
16:28
Speaker 1: get all of your child sex victims up on this stand.
16:34
Speaker 1: Let's play all your perverted tapes in front of a jury.
16:39
Speaker 1: You got fifteen years on a plea. Let's see what
16:41
Speaker 1: you get that way, Fogel. We received dispatch a vehicle
16:49
Speaker 1: over the side of three other children are missing but
16:51
Speaker 1: are presumed dead. They portray this happy little family. Their
16:57
Speaker 1: daughters tonging is please, please, please, begging is not to
16:59
Speaker 1: make go back, and that they are abusing her. None
17:01
Speaker 1: of that lines up with the people that we all knew.
17:06
Speaker 1: It's really hard to imagine. CPS got an anonymous call.
17:10
Speaker 1: Depany's say CPS had already sent a case worker two
17:14
Speaker 1: the house twice before to check on the family without
17:17
Speaker 1: getting anyone to come to the door. And now to California,
17:21
Speaker 1: where an entire family seemingly plunges off a cliff, killing
17:27
Speaker 1: the whole family, including the parents. But now an alarming
17:33
Speaker 1: series of complaints, including child mistreatment, horrible horrible claims about
17:42
Speaker 1: how these children were treated in life and Bremner joining
17:46
Speaker 1: us high profile lawyer out of the Seattle jurisdiction. And Bremner,
17:50
Speaker 1: let's start at the beginning. What can you tell us
17:53
Speaker 1: about the crash? The car looked like it fully accelerated
17:57
Speaker 1: off the cliff. Really, I'm near sound of Barbara and
18:01
Speaker 1: the same sex couple, Sarah and Jennifer Hart were in
18:05
Speaker 1: the front, and then there were three kids in the back.
18:08
Speaker 1: The parents were restrained, but the kids were not. And
18:11
Speaker 1: so you found they only found the three kids deceased
18:15
Speaker 1: in their parents near the vehicle, thrown from the vehicle, etcetera.
18:19
Speaker 1: But then they found one more child. In subsequent days,
18:22
Speaker 1: two more missing. There's been some speculation that one of
18:25
Speaker 1: the children may have been deceased before the crash, but
18:28
Speaker 1: that's pure speculation. And my stars, wait a minute, I
18:32
Speaker 1: know the authorities have found the body of the parents,
18:35
Speaker 1: Sarah and Jennifer Hart, and three of their adopted children, Marcus, Jeremiah,
18:39
Speaker 1: and Abigail. Now there were three other children, Hannah, Sierra
18:43
Speaker 1: and Davante. The three of them were missing. But Saturday
18:48
Speaker 1: a body was pulled out of the surf and that
18:51
Speaker 1: was most likely one of the children. Now the Mendocino
18:55
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office say a couple was vacationing along the
18:59
Speaker 1: coast and a body that was pulled out of the
19:02
Speaker 1: water by third bystander. Take a listen to the Mendocino
19:06
Speaker 1: County Sheriff Greg van Patten. On March and approximately fifteen
19:12
Speaker 1: thirty eight hours, we received dispatch nine calls of a
19:18
Speaker 1: vehicle over the side in a remote section of Highway
19:22
Speaker 1: one south of San Juan Creek. Was an obvious fatality
19:27
Speaker 1: situation as there were three um victims outside of the vehicle.
19:34
Speaker 1: Further examination of the scene revealed two adults victims inside
19:39
Speaker 1: of the vehicle and three juvenile victims outside of vehicle.
19:44
Speaker 1: The next day, through follow up investigation, we learned that
19:47
Speaker 1: there were possibly three additional um outstanding juveniles that had
19:52
Speaker 1: not been located, that were either with the vehicle or
19:55
Speaker 1: possibly with family members. Vante we believe was in the
19:59
Speaker 1: vehicle her um. We have not recovered any in his
20:03
Speaker 1: body and to up you know, I'm looking at photos
20:05
Speaker 1: right now of the two parents, Sarah and Jennifer Hart,
20:09
Speaker 1: and their adopted children. I don't know how one family
20:13
Speaker 1: is allowed to adopt so many children. It's hard enough
20:18
Speaker 1: for me to take care of two of them, but
20:20
Speaker 1: this many children, and then we find out there were
20:24
Speaker 1: nine one one calls because the children were being mistreated
20:28
Speaker 1: before the car plunges over the cliff. Take a listen
20:31
Speaker 1: to this nine one one call. Yeah, there's some kids
20:35
Speaker 1: that I feel as being highly abused and I can
20:40
Speaker 1: in Woodland, Washington. What's the address? Okay, I'm gonna go
20:46
Speaker 1: to the address of my daughter's cause because it's right
20:48
Speaker 1: in next doore. And what's playing on there, Well, they
20:52
Speaker 1: have four black children with that part doesn't matter. They're
20:56
Speaker 1: they're new here in Texas. But the other night a
20:58
Speaker 1: little girls jump out of the second story window on
21:01
Speaker 1: the roof and then down onto the ground and ran
21:04
Speaker 1: to my daughter. And this is like two in the morning,
21:07
Speaker 1: begging them to help her, to help her. When did
21:11
Speaker 1: that happen? Um, about three or four nights ago, Okay,
21:16
Speaker 1: And my son in law doesn't want to get involved.
21:19
Speaker 1: But the more I sit on it, I just can't
21:21
Speaker 1: live with it. Somebody's got to go there and check it.
21:23
Speaker 1: And you know how old less the little kid that
21:25
Speaker 1: did that that Ranny Gotta's house, about twelve years old,
21:29
Speaker 1: thirteen And when they came looking for her. She was
21:34
Speaker 1: begging my daughter not to let them know she was there,
21:38
Speaker 1: and then eventually my son in law let them know.
21:42
Speaker 1: And then she had all four of the kids come
21:44
Speaker 1: back later and to say everything was okay. And they're
21:48
Speaker 1: all standing at attention like they were just scared to death.
21:52
Speaker 1: And I think there's something very serious going on there.
21:56
Speaker 1: And they're here from Texas. The kids might even be kidnapped. Okay.
22:02
Speaker 1: And um, so did the girl ever say why she
22:06
Speaker 1: was scared? No? She uh, she was crying. And it
22:12
Speaker 1: was two in the morning. And my daughter said, the
22:14
Speaker 1: biggest problem is she's half awake. She couldn't believe what
22:17
Speaker 1: was going on. And okay, and and basically my southern laws,
22:24
Speaker 1: like most people, they don't want to get involved, and
22:28
Speaker 1: so he was keeping my daughter out of it. But
22:30
Speaker 1: since she told me about it, I just can't live
22:33
Speaker 1: with it. I'm very concerned for these kids and I
22:36
Speaker 1: just can't let this go any longer. Those kids, I
22:39
Speaker 1: think is in very serious danger. The nine one one
22:42
Speaker 1: call her reporting that the Heart family's child jumped out
22:46
Speaker 1: of the house window begging for help. But in the photos,
22:51
Speaker 1: the families all smiles and they looked like a modern family,
22:56
Speaker 1: uh with a diverse family to moms six adopted children,
23:03
Speaker 1: that's a family of eight. Their arms and the photos
23:05
Speaker 1: are all wrapped around each other and um, free hugs,
23:10
Speaker 1: love is beautiful, holding signs like that. But the nine
23:16
Speaker 1: one one call belies all of that. Neighbors describing very
23:22
Speaker 1: disturbing encounters with the children crying for help and asking
23:27
Speaker 1: for food. It gets ends up in a report to
23:30
Speaker 1: Child Protective Services just before the families suv plunges off
23:35
Speaker 1: a cliff. Listen to this nine one one call? Help
23:39
Speaker 1: you guess investigator that needs a well child check? Who
23:43
Speaker 1: are we checking on? So we have the mothers are
23:46
Speaker 1: Sarah and Jennifer Hart okay, and according to my intakes,
23:50
Speaker 1: they have six children in the home for the home
23:53
Speaker 1: Monday and Friday. I knocked on the door just this
23:55
Speaker 1: morning and no one I can get in a response.
23:57
Speaker 1: Different cars have been moving in and out. I know
23:59
Speaker 1: there's so I feel like someone fair And what was
24:01
Speaker 1: the reason why you're checking out consents that the children
24:04
Speaker 1: aren't being fed? So, Ashley Wilcot, you're the expert in
24:10
Speaker 1: child welfare. What happened? This is why I love your
24:14
Speaker 1: show because you helped the public understand. Number one, it
24:19
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what people look like, what they pretend to be,
24:24
Speaker 1: how they appear to be, they can be abusive to
24:27
Speaker 1: their children. And not only did these children one of
24:30
Speaker 1: them jump out the window and go to the neighbor,
24:32
Speaker 1: they did it repeatedly. So it was not one time,
24:34
Speaker 1: it was multiple times. So clearly there are lots of
24:37
Speaker 1: red flags in this case. System fail. You know, they
24:41
Speaker 1: had these adopted children for six months before they were
24:43
Speaker 1: allowed to adopt them. They're multiple reports of bruises on
24:47
Speaker 1: different children, children going to neighbors, were hungry. This is
24:51
Speaker 1: what they're doing to us. All kinds of red flags
24:54
Speaker 1: in this case, regardless of their appearance and the front
24:57
Speaker 1: that they put on to act like they were good.
24:59
Speaker 1: I mean, and Ashley Willcott, you're familiar with my children's
25:03
Speaker 1: school and in the mornings when I take them personally
25:08
Speaker 1: to make and watch them walk in the door, because
25:10
Speaker 1: I still remember Kylin Hormon, I go through and if
25:14
Speaker 1: it's chilly outside and I see children and short pants
25:17
Speaker 1: and no leggings, I'm like, what what are their parents thinking?
25:23
Speaker 1: You know, And I'm inside, you know, judging these children
25:28
Speaker 1: are climbing out of their windows begging neighbors for food.
25:32
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just once. This guy that describes that
25:36
Speaker 1: encounter live next door to the Hearts, and it wasn't
25:39
Speaker 1: to a m when the child crawls out a window
25:43
Speaker 1: of the house to beg for food. He says. It
25:46
Speaker 1: was one of at least four times where the children
25:50
Speaker 1: appear to have told adults about their troubles in the home.
25:55
Speaker 1: Nothing happened, So why didn't authorities go investigate? Take a
26:03
Speaker 1: listen to Clark County Shriff Sergeant Brent Widel responding to
26:08
Speaker 1: the residents. Um, coming down the prior position of the call,
26:14
Speaker 1: and this call is the distance out. It's by a
26:18
Speaker 1: third party. Um, you know of something that they have
26:24
Speaker 1: no firstkind knowledge of. I'm not sure we failed the children. Again,
26:31
Speaker 1: we handle a lot of these types of calls. Why
26:36
Speaker 1: why didn't anything happen? Ashley? I'm not finding you Ashley.
26:39
Speaker 1: That don't get me wrong, But you have the familiarity
26:42
Speaker 1: with the child welfare system. Well what happened? Why were
26:45
Speaker 1: they allowed to adopt six children to start with? Well
26:47
Speaker 1: that I don't know. That begs the question. And we
26:50
Speaker 1: can talk again about system fail because we see those,
26:52
Speaker 1: regrettably with a system completely fails to protect children. But
26:55
Speaker 1: put that aside. Here's what people need to realize. Do
26:58
Speaker 1: you know the neighbor state very clearly the first time
27:01
Speaker 1: this happened in the middle of the night, too am
27:03
Speaker 1: like you point out, this neighbor sent the child back home.
27:07
Speaker 1: Why because of the appearance of the parents, because they're
27:10
Speaker 1: putting on a good front. Well, they look like they're okay,
27:12
Speaker 1: and I think it's okay. I'm just gonna send the
27:15
Speaker 1: child back. Here's what I'm here to say, as an expert,
27:17
Speaker 1: as a judge, do not do not, under any circumstances
27:21
Speaker 1: when a child makes those kinds of disclosures, send them back.
27:24
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to get involved in people's lives and they think, oh,
27:27
Speaker 1: it's fine, we'll send the child back to the parents. No,
27:30
Speaker 1: the state agents. She should have been called at that moment,
27:33
Speaker 1: and it was multiple times later before anybody reported what
27:36
Speaker 1: was going on. And listen to this, Dr Bethany Marshall.
27:41
Speaker 1: Then I'll go to ambrem Or Vincent Hill. I want
27:43
Speaker 1: to hear your take portray this happy little family and
27:51
Speaker 1: yet you know the night before their daughters tynging as
27:54
Speaker 1: please please please, begging is not to make her go back,
27:57
Speaker 1: and that they are abusing her. And then Davante coming
28:00
Speaker 1: your hair and telling us that you know he's being
28:03
Speaker 1: starved to death. And this is what the neighbor says.
28:07
Speaker 1: The other night, a little girl jumped out of the
28:09
Speaker 1: second story window onto the roof, then down to the ground,
28:15
Speaker 1: ran to my daughter, this is two in the morning,
28:18
Speaker 1: begging them to help her. That the girl cried and
28:21
Speaker 1: begged the daughter not to let her parents know she
28:24
Speaker 1: was there. Then one of the parents came over, and
28:29
Speaker 1: then all four of the children came back later to
28:33
Speaker 1: say everything's okay. And all the children when they came
28:36
Speaker 1: back to the neighbor were standing at attention like they
28:39
Speaker 1: were scared. They all stood at attention to report now
28:43
Speaker 1: everything's fine, and then they marched home. I mean, Dr Bethany,
28:49
Speaker 1: that's terrible. This story completely breaks my heart. And you
28:55
Speaker 1: know underneath this the nearer of civility and sophistication that
28:59
Speaker 1: the parents had. I would think that the underlying psychopathology
29:04
Speaker 1: or disturbance of the parents is to gather more and
29:08
Speaker 1: more children like objects so that they can feel important
29:12
Speaker 1: and nurturing, but deep down harboring hatred and resentment towards
29:18
Speaker 1: the children for having needs. This is the central problem
29:22
Speaker 1: with child abuse that I see again and again is
29:25
Speaker 1: that the adult resents the needs of the child to
29:29
Speaker 1: the point I heard in my office once a parent
29:32
Speaker 1: putting padlocking the refrigerator because the parents felt the child
29:36
Speaker 1: was greedy and preoccupatients who parents, patients in my practice
29:42
Speaker 1: who become preoccupied with the child being bad because the
29:45
Speaker 1: child wants so much. And you know, to peggyback on On,
29:50
Speaker 1: Ashley was saying, you know, child abuse is notoriously underreported
29:55
Speaker 1: because witnesses of child abuse they doubt themselves. They feel
29:59
Speaker 1: the they're interfering, they feel that the child is being traumatic.
30:04
Speaker 1: They are afraid that they're going to tear a family
30:07
Speaker 1: apart when nothing bad is going on. And the public
30:11
Speaker 1: needs to know they don't need to verify child abuse.
30:15
Speaker 1: They need to report suspicion of child abuse. There's a
30:19
Speaker 1: big difference. The public is not required to verify it,
30:24
Speaker 1: They're just required to report what they see. So the
30:27
Speaker 1: public needs to be emboldened in these kinds of situations.
30:30
Speaker 1: Listen to this. This nearly breaks my heart. The parents
30:34
Speaker 1: Jennifer and Sarah Hart, six year old little girl told, hey,
30:38
Speaker 1: this is when they were in Minnesota. They moved over
30:42
Speaker 1: and over and over again, which is another sign something's
30:45
Speaker 1: very wrong. The little six year all tells a Minnesota
30:49
Speaker 1: public school teacher that she had quote Alley's on her
30:53
Speaker 1: tummy and back after her mother hit her with her fists,
31:00
Speaker 1: leaving bruises. The teacher rightly alerts social services and police,
31:06
Speaker 1: who wants a criminal investigation. Six months later, one of
31:10
Speaker 1: the two moms, Sarah Hart, pleads guilty to assault and
31:14
Speaker 1: gets probation. A week later, all six of their adopted
31:19
Speaker 1: children are pulled out of public school and go to
31:24
Speaker 1: home school setting. They never returned to public school. The
31:31
Speaker 1: family moves, then moves again. Neighbors lodge new claims of
31:36
Speaker 1: mistreating the children. Then, just two weeks ago, as child
31:41
Speaker 1: protection workers now in Washington are trying to contact the Hearts,
31:45
Speaker 1: their suv dives off the side of the road and
31:51
Speaker 1: kills the parents and at least three children, three others
31:55
Speaker 1: still missing. Police now saying this was no accident. The
32:02
Speaker 1: Nette's so so, joining US investigative reporter, what do we
32:07
Speaker 1: know now and the Nette what led them to think
32:09
Speaker 1: this is no accident? One of the reasons is because
32:13
Speaker 1: there are no skid marks at the location, in other words,
32:17
Speaker 1: no attempt to break as the vehicle plunges off. Also,
32:22
Speaker 1: the a dometer was measured at about ninety miles per hour. Now,
32:25
Speaker 1: whether it was traveling that past is still being investigated,
32:30
Speaker 1: but that's where it stuck. So those are two of
32:32
Speaker 1: the reasons. Take a listen to California Highlight Patrol chips
32:36
Speaker 1: Greg bart culiminary investigation indicates to us that this incident
32:40
Speaker 1: may have been an intentional act and not the result
32:43
Speaker 1: of a traffic collision. The vehicle was approximately seventy ft
32:48
Speaker 1: away from the cliffs edge and the pull out, and
32:52
Speaker 1: the last plate break application shows that it was about
32:55
Speaker 1: at that location and the pull out, and then after
32:57
Speaker 1: that it was um excel a ration all the way
33:00
Speaker 1: up to the point where it impacted the uh the
33:03
Speaker 1: ocean floor. We have every indication to believe that all
33:07
Speaker 1: six children were in there. However, only three bodies have
33:10
Speaker 1: been recovered. This will take several weeks for us to
33:14
Speaker 1: have a clear understanding as to possibly if there isn't
33:18
Speaker 1: a definitive answer what occurred. You know, I want to
33:22
Speaker 1: go back Vincent Hill. Very often I would learn so
33:25
Speaker 1: much from quote school investigators. A lot of schools have
33:30
Speaker 1: somebody in the school UM teachers, principles and other school
33:35
Speaker 1: personnel are under the law supposed to report if they
33:41
Speaker 1: think there is child mistreatment. For instance, Um, how do
33:45
Speaker 1: they show up to school? Do they wear the same
33:47
Speaker 1: clothes for two or three days? Are they always hungry?
33:52
Speaker 1: Do they eat like they're starved and that's all they're
33:56
Speaker 1: gonna get to eat? Do they look like they've had
33:59
Speaker 1: a bath? Do they like their hair is calmbed and
34:02
Speaker 1: that their teeth are brush or their hands and face clean.
34:06
Speaker 1: Do they come in and you can see they haven't
34:09
Speaker 1: touched their schoolwork for a couple of days? I mean,
34:12
Speaker 1: what's happening in the home? Vincent Hill? The school is
34:17
Speaker 1: the second line of defense of children. The home should
34:21
Speaker 1: be the first line of defense. What can we as
34:24
Speaker 1: ordinary citizens, um, neighbors when you're around children? What do
34:30
Speaker 1: you look for? Vincent Hill? What do investigators in school
34:33
Speaker 1: settings look for? Nancy? I think you touched on all
34:37
Speaker 1: of that. You know, dirty clothes, Do they have a
34:40
Speaker 1: foul odor to them? Doesn't look like they haven't? They
34:44
Speaker 1: look detatched socially from everyone else. These are all signs
34:48
Speaker 1: of abuse that happens in the home. And unfortunately, there
34:51
Speaker 1: were so many fields for these children in this case,
34:55
Speaker 1: so many on so many levels. You know, one of
34:57
Speaker 1: the reasons I'm not a big advocate of schooling is
35:00
Speaker 1: because the kids cannot show those signs to someone else.
35:05
Speaker 1: So I prefer a child to being a public school
35:08
Speaker 1: or maybe a chartered private school. But at least they're
35:11
Speaker 1: around under individuals that can pick up these signs that
35:14
Speaker 1: these kids, I'm sure we're showing, and a lot of
35:17
Speaker 1: people just ignored, Like I go back to the neighbor who,
35:20
Speaker 1: you know, the parents came over, Oh, it looks fine.
35:23
Speaker 1: You know, maybe the neighbor thought, oh, well, the kids
35:26
Speaker 1: being dramatic, or well the parents here, they look normal.
35:29
Speaker 1: But to that, I say, Jeffrey Dahmer looked normal, but
35:32
Speaker 1: he was chopping people and eating them. So and now
35:35
Speaker 1: we hear one of the little boys. Aunt the little
35:40
Speaker 1: boy DeVante heart. She says, it's just devastating. And this
35:46
Speaker 1: isn't Aunt Devant's who fought for custody celesting. It's a
35:51
Speaker 1: late night call from a lawyer who once helped her
35:56
Speaker 1: fight to get custody of the children. Three of them, Dante,
36:00
Speaker 1: DeVante and Jeremiah and Sierra, but she didn't get custody,
36:05
Speaker 1: and now she learns the two moms that adopted them,
36:10
Speaker 1: to make a total of six adopted children, have dived
36:15
Speaker 1: off the side of a cliff. Jeremiah's body found among
36:21
Speaker 1: the wreckage at the bottom of a one hundred foot cliff. Oh,
36:28
Speaker 1: DeVante and Sierra are still missing. They're presumed dead. Now
36:34
Speaker 1: we're questioning to Jennifer Hart, one of the two moms
36:38
Speaker 1: intentionally speed out of a pullout overlooking Pacific Highway along
36:45
Speaker 1: Highway one and kill all her children. And Bremner, you're there,
36:52
Speaker 1: what what is the word locally? Well, it's all like
36:55
Speaker 1: I said before you, Nancy, that this is all over
36:57
Speaker 1: the Seattle Times, you know, all the time, and on
37:00
Speaker 1: day there was a very long article about this. They
37:02
Speaker 1: were in Woodland, Washington, which is a small town's southern
37:05
Speaker 1: Washington near Oregon Oregon border, and people here are just
37:09
Speaker 1: outraged about a course, as everybody is. But they were
37:13
Speaker 1: looked at in Oregon by the authorities, but those records
37:16
Speaker 1: are sealed or confidential, so we don't know what those
37:19
Speaker 1: complaints were, but we know what the complaints were in
37:21
Speaker 1: Washington State and that they up and left immediately once
37:25
Speaker 1: child welfare folks came and knocked on their door and
37:27
Speaker 1: left a card. You know, they went to California, and
37:30
Speaker 1: this horrible tragedy you know, ensued. Sounds like an intentional crime.
37:34
Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to point out on Child Protective
37:37
Speaker 1: Services is, you know, I think we really have to
37:39
Speaker 1: have an awareness life. We've just been talking about about
37:41
Speaker 1: what to look for in kids. I agree on the
37:44
Speaker 1: homeschooling issue. Remember Nancy, you helped us so much in
37:47
Speaker 1: the Susan cox Pal case here in Washington State, and
37:50
Speaker 1: josh Pal, who killed his wife Susan, had his kids
37:55
Speaker 1: for visitation and there was CPS involved purportedly throughout that piece,
38:00
Speaker 1: and josh Pal ended up setting the house on fire,
38:04
Speaker 1: blowing it up, and killing the kids with a hatchet.
38:07
Speaker 1: Two little boys, Susan's two little boys. And I look
38:10
Speaker 1: at that case and I think we need to say
38:12
Speaker 1: that we have zero tolerance for child abuse, and the
38:15
Speaker 1: best interests of the children should be the paramount concern,
38:18
Speaker 1: not reunification of families, not making sure that everything you
38:23
Speaker 1: know that looks okay seems okay can be held is okay,
38:26
Speaker 1: but you know that the whole idea here, you know,
38:29
Speaker 1: with these with these neighbors, and it was pretty rural,
38:33
Speaker 1: but it wasn't just kids coming over or at least
38:35
Speaker 1: one or two saying we're hungry, we need food, but
38:38
Speaker 1: also saying, can you put food in a box at
38:41
Speaker 1: the fence at our house like every day so we
38:43
Speaker 1: can have food. I mean, that's so alarming, you know,
38:47
Speaker 1: to come at one thirty or two in the morning
38:49
Speaker 1: and knocking at their door because of this. And these
38:53
Speaker 1: were two sets, three from one mother or family and
38:56
Speaker 1: three from another. And we just had an article today
38:58
Speaker 1: in Seattle Times about another child who had been in
39:02
Speaker 1: their care for a period of time at fifteen and
39:05
Speaker 1: the way that relationship quote unquote ended was she was
39:08
Speaker 1: sent to a third party and they said, your mother's
39:12
Speaker 1: don't aren't going to keep you anymore because they're adopting
39:15
Speaker 1: more children. There were no goodbye, there was no explanation,
39:19
Speaker 1: and she went off to another home. Oh my stars,
39:22
Speaker 1: how that's emotionally devastating. And you know, I'm just thinking
39:26
Speaker 1: I'm listening to im Bremner uh also reporting on it,
39:30
Speaker 1: as she Willcott, founder of child crime watch dot com,
39:34
Speaker 1: I mean, when my children come home, when I see
39:36
Speaker 1: they haven't eaten their snacks I packed for them. Well,
39:39
Speaker 1: number one, John David doesn't need to eat a snack,
39:41
Speaker 1: but I give him three. He's a big horse, and
39:44
Speaker 1: I tell him that, I like, you, big horse, eat okay,
39:47
Speaker 1: or don't eat, whatever the case might be. But I'm like,
39:50
Speaker 1: why didn't you eat your snacks? People? They're yummy, let's eat.
39:54
Speaker 1: Come on, I mean, and these children are asking for
39:58
Speaker 1: the neighbors to put food in a box in the fence.
40:01
Speaker 1: And the whole time, Ashley, you've got a blood relative.
40:07
Speaker 1: I'm Celestine, a paternal aunt, no criminal record, had raised
40:11
Speaker 1: a daughter of your own, had a steady job as
40:14
Speaker 1: a hospital clark in Houston. The children would come stay
40:18
Speaker 1: with her, okay often, and they would not let her
40:23
Speaker 1: have the children. So they instead they give them to
40:25
Speaker 1: these two moms that are gonna have now six children.
40:29
Speaker 1: I mean, DeVante and his sisters have yet to be found.
40:34
Speaker 1: The wreck is discovered by a pastor by we know
40:37
Speaker 1: that another body was fished out of the water. Did
40:41
Speaker 1: these two moms intentionally the Thelma and Louise and drive
40:46
Speaker 1: their whole family over the cliff Ashley Willcott child Crime
40:52
Speaker 1: watch dot com way in. Here's what bothers me, Nancy,
40:55
Speaker 1: and I see this time and time again, regrettably, is
40:58
Speaker 1: children that are in the city, some of foster care,
41:01
Speaker 1: are allowed to be adopted by families and they they
41:04
Speaker 1: it's as if the agency decides these people are going
41:07
Speaker 1: to adopt and then they are hands off. They do
41:10
Speaker 1: not double check, They do not check on the welfare
41:12
Speaker 1: of the children. They do not advocate for the best
41:15
Speaker 1: interests of the children. They say, oh good, adopt a poem.
41:18
Speaker 1: Check next. And that's what happened in this case, and
41:21
Speaker 1: that's why these children are failed. Dr Bethany Marshalls psychoanalysts
41:25
Speaker 1: out of l A. Driving your children over a cliff, Nancy,
41:31
Speaker 1: it is so hard to comprehend, but I think I
41:34
Speaker 1: have a pretty good idea of what might have led
41:37
Speaker 1: to that. So what you see in these really pathological
41:40
Speaker 1: households where there's so much child abuse, there's one of
41:44
Speaker 1: two scenarios. One is that you have one parent who
41:48
Speaker 1: loves the children, and the other parent who has simmering
41:52
Speaker 1: resentment and hatred and envy and jealousy towards the children
41:57
Speaker 1: and wants to kill the children in order to get
42:00
Speaker 1: back at the other parent. And if that were the case,
42:03
Speaker 1: that would probably the be the person who is driving
42:06
Speaker 1: the car um using the children like ponds, killing them
42:09
Speaker 1: to get back at our partner. The other would be
42:12
Speaker 1: that you have a child abusing parent who becomes quite
42:15
Speaker 1: paranoid and resentful towards the children and then draws the
42:19
Speaker 1: other parent into a paranoid stance towards the children. And
42:23
Speaker 1: you have two moms who are very disregulated in their
42:28
Speaker 1: hatred towards each other, like a lot of fighting, a
42:31
Speaker 1: lot of screaming, a lot of yelling, and they're so
42:34
Speaker 1: unable to regulate their negative affects or emotions that they
42:39
Speaker 1: actually have to fly over a cliff, pick a fight, um,
42:44
Speaker 1: step on the gas, do something to just let the
42:48
Speaker 1: steam off of all those disregulated emotions without having a
42:52
Speaker 1: big picture conception that they're actually putting an end to
42:55
Speaker 1: the entire family. Do you think people sometimes adopt children
42:59
Speaker 1: to fix their relationship. Oh, absolutely, to fix their relationship
43:04
Speaker 1: to or if they hate each other, they'd rather they'd
43:08
Speaker 1: rather direct the hatred towards the children than towards each other.
43:11
Speaker 1: They will adopt children to punish the children because they
43:18
Speaker 1: don't want to express anger towards each other. In the
43:22
Speaker 1: marital diet, children are made use of in all kinds
43:27
Speaker 1: of ways. They're they're at the mercy of the adults
43:29
Speaker 1: in their lives. Yeah, they have such an clear record
43:33
Speaker 1: of eraticism. We're talking about Sarah and Jennifer Hart who
43:38
Speaker 1: drive off a cliff with their children, all their children.
43:43
Speaker 1: There's six adopted children in all killing. As of right now,
43:47
Speaker 1: we don't even know how many were in the car.
43:51
Speaker 1: They began fostering children all the way back in the
43:54
Speaker 1: mid two thousand's, according to friends that knew them in Minnesota,
44:00
Speaker 1: where the two women lived before they moved to the
44:02
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. The Minnesota Department of Human Services confirmed they
44:08
Speaker 1: had a foster care license for two years starting in
44:12
Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Then they were just in their
44:15
Speaker 1: mid twenties, right out of college, and their friends remember
44:19
Speaker 1: them talking about fostering children, and they seem like they
44:24
Speaker 1: wanted to help. But something went horribly sideways, because it
44:29
Speaker 1: went from trying to help to claims they deprived their
44:33
Speaker 1: children of food, spanking them so hard that they get
44:37
Speaker 1: convicted for it. Reporting by neighbors. The family lived an
44:43
Speaker 1: isolated life outside of rallies, political rallies, and music festivals.
44:50
Speaker 1: They would attend what went wrong, you know, to unravel
44:58
Speaker 1: that to this to investigative report, Nanette Sosa, it seems
45:02
Speaker 1: to me that of course the two moms are responsible,
45:06
Speaker 1: but also how did the system lose track of them?
45:09
Speaker 1: How did they go from Minnesota, Toto, Texas, to Pacific
45:14
Speaker 1: Northwest and everywhere there are claims by neighbors to police,
45:19
Speaker 1: to schools, and yet they keep getting away with it. Nanette.
45:23
Speaker 1: One of the situations with this, and it looks like
45:26
Speaker 1: mixed messages, is the fact that states do not have
45:29
Speaker 1: to report to utter states about alleged abuse, etcetera. So
45:37
Speaker 1: what happened in Washington, Oregon wouldn't know, what happened in Minnesota,
45:41
Speaker 1: Washington wouldn't know. So that's a little bit of a
45:44
Speaker 1: disconnect right there, when states, in their CPS systems and
45:50
Speaker 1: so forth, just don't know. Also, this family, Jennifer and Sarah,
45:55
Speaker 1: they received about two hundred and seventy thousand dollars over
45:58
Speaker 1: ten years for the adopted children who they acquired in
46:02
Speaker 1: two thousand six the first set and then in two
46:05
Speaker 1: thousand nine the second set. So that's pretty much five
46:07
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year per child that they were receiving.
46:10
Speaker 1: Is that enough really to raise a children on? I
46:14
Speaker 1: know it sounds like a lot, maybe two seventy. But
46:17
Speaker 1: when it comes down to finances and at the end
46:19
Speaker 1: of the day, maybe there was a financial issue going
46:21
Speaker 1: on that might be something that needs to be reviewed
46:25
Speaker 1: for this family. Could they afford to feed six mouths?
46:29
Speaker 1: Could they put it together? I understand that they did
46:31
Speaker 1: buy the house in Washington, but or finances maybe a
46:35
Speaker 1: little bit behind us. When you have Hannah who jumps
46:38
Speaker 1: out of the second story window and runs to the
46:41
Speaker 1: neighbor's house, and then the neighbors say that this is
46:44
Speaker 1: a teenager who looks like she's seven years old and
46:47
Speaker 1: is missing her front teeth. How is that not a
46:50
Speaker 1: sign of abuse that that's going on? How is that miss?
46:55
Speaker 1: An autopsy now scheduled for another body a found in
47:01
Speaker 1: northern California where the suv of this couple plunges off
47:05
Speaker 1: the cliff, killing at least five members of the family.
47:10
Speaker 1: It's gonna be weeks to determine whether it is the
47:12
Speaker 1: body and one of the three children still missing. Lengthy
47:17
Speaker 1: DNA analysis may be needed to identify it. That's how
47:21
Speaker 1: badly it's decomposed. Nancy. We've learned that preliminary toxicology tests
47:26
Speaker 1: show that Jennifer Hart was drunk when their suv plunged
47:30
Speaker 1: off a California cliff, and that her wife, Sarah, and
47:34
Speaker 1: the children had a drug in their system that can
47:37
Speaker 1: cause drowsiness. California Highway Patrol says Jennifer's alcohol level was
47:41
Speaker 1: point one oh one point oh eight or more is
47:45
Speaker 1: considered legally drunk. Also, Nancy, Sarah, and two of the
47:50
Speaker 1: children had high amounts of a benadryl like substance in
47:53
Speaker 1: their systems, which can cause sleepiness, and the toxicology report
47:58
Speaker 1: is still pending on the third child. Oh my stars,
48:02
Speaker 1: Nnett Sosa, you know what. It's such a tangled web.
48:07
Speaker 1: But there is a long path, a long history of
48:12
Speaker 1: mistreatment of these children, and the state keeps giving them
48:16
Speaker 1: more and more adopted children, and the claims of mistreatment
48:22
Speaker 1: get worse and worse. This is what we know. We
48:26
Speaker 1: know that some of the children died, and that horrific
48:30
Speaker 1: death plunge by the two mommies. We know there's a
48:34
Speaker 1: long history of abuse on all of these children. One
48:41
Speaker 1: after the next, after the next, adopted. We know that
48:46
Speaker 1: the two moms were making a lot of money off
48:50
Speaker 1: these children from the state. It's all ended in a
48:56
Speaker 1: horrific death of little children. Is anybody going to do
49:03
Speaker 1: anything about the welfare system? How many calls? How many neighbors,
49:11
Speaker 1: how many teachers, how many relatives, how many police? How
49:15
Speaker 1: many nine one one calls? Does it take for children
49:20
Speaker 1: to be saved? You tell me, Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
49:26
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,