Latest / The Scout and The Speculator / Inside the Mind of a Pro Scout with Jheremy Brown - Episode 1
Transcript
- Jaba: Hello everybody and welcome back to the Scout and the Speculator Podcast. today we have a special episode. We're going to be leaning heavily on the word scout in our title. This is Will Jarvis, also known as Jabba Cards, joined by Jeremy Brown of Perfect Game Baseball, more importantly known as JGB underscore cards underscore. But today I actually think he's more importantly known as Jeremy Brown of Perfect Game Baseball. He's joining us from the field, what? What event are you at again right now? Jheremy: I'm down in one of our big WWBAs. Down in West Palm Beach. So actively watching games. It's a good morning so far. Jaba: So for somebody who doesn't know what a WWBA is. Jheremy: sorry. Yeah. It's just a Worldwood Bat Association. That's the abbreviation for it. A lot of the best players from around the country have all come in. We have two different age groups. One over in Jupiter is by far the biggest event. golf carts, pro scouts everywhere. I saw a couple kids throwing I had a kid up to a hundred last night, yesterday. home runs everywhere. We just had we're watching fifteen new right now. Kid just put one out. We're at big league spring training facilities and Some of the talent out here already is just ridiculous. Jaba: Yeah, that's you know. I think people are obviously drawn to this mostly because of your scouting experience. I mean, I know for me it's something that's fascinating to me as someone who's always loved baseball. I think, you know, as we've gotten closer in the past, call it six months. I think Jheremy: Uh-huh. Jaba: it's, you know, one of those topics where I could pick your brain all day and not get bored. So we kind of figured we would lean into that a little bit because I think a lot of the people listening are like me where they're kind of baseball junkies who haven't been on your side of things. things and Jheremy: Mm-hmm. Jaba: we want to start getting you know some insights from you that are you know unique and kinda harder to find. Still Jheremy: Right. Jaba: coming up with a name for this, we might call it Scouting the Scout. Not sure if anyone has an idea, let us know. We will Jheremy: So Jaba: shout you out. pretty big deal. but yeah, we're just gonna do a few questions. I have a long list of questions. We're probably gonna do this weekly or something. And if you guys have questions for Jeremy, those will skip the line and go first in future episodes. So first one here. I'll keep it, you know, we've discussed this a little bit, but I think it's a good one to start this series with. When you're s watching a player for the first time, especially a hitter, just call it a hitter because, you know, I think that that's the more popular Bowman you know, subset. What is the Jheremy: Yep. Jaba: first thing you're looking for when you're looking at a guy? And again, Jeremy's seeing these guys when they're thirteen, fourteen, so he's the one really seeing them when they're far off. He's not seeing like the finished products, you know, that are, you know, in mock drafts or, you know, committed to college. He he's seeing when Jheremy: Right. Jaba: they're in their formative years still. Jheremy: We're we're watching them like as they transition from quite literally the little league fields into the sixty nineties and but it it it happens in a blink of an eye. And these kids are make the jump seamlessly now, but these kids are big, these kids are strong, and it's definitely been a trend in that direction over the last few years. so I go, right, you're watching how can you possibly watch thirteen, fourteen? Remind you, a lot of these kids in Bowman Chrome are signing deals or not signing, but having verbal deals at the same age. They're being identified as early as eleven, twelve years old by pro teams down in the islands. And we're watching them here. Obviously, we're not signing guys, we're not drafting guys, but with with watching them, I just purely looking at body control, athleticism, coordination, keeping in the back of my mind some of these kids are gonna wake up one day and it's gonna be like the movie Big and they're gonna be Tom Hanks, where it's a completely new body. Like they're constantly growing and having to relearn things and you don't hold that against them, obviously. That's gonna happen. Kids are gonna just all of a sudden be six inches taller and they have to relearn everything. But seeing how they control themselves, and yes, some of the kids are gonna be more physical, some of the kids are gonna have more bat speed at an early age, be more mature in terms of physicality, which you keep in mind. But I I've described it before of right now, at this age, it's like building a puzzle. Every time you see them, you're taking away one more piece. And by no means are it's it's like a think of it as like a thousand piece puzzle. And every time you see them, you're getting a couple pieces at such an early age. You're so far from the finished product that you don't know what it's gonna ultimately look like. But you get a couple pieces here. You see him take a ground ball there, you see a couple swings against the lefty, a couple swings against the righty. You start putting it all together, and then you you start to see the finish line, but you're still far from the completed finish line, you know, because still even sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old. Get them into the complex are still so far from what they are, let alone in high school, let alone at fourteen, fifteen years old. So it's a little bit of everything like that. I I do like to use the analogy of building a puzzle where every time you see a kid, you're getting something else and adding to it to attempt to figure out what they're gonna look like as a prospect at the end of the day. Jaba: And when when you say body control, do you just kind Jheremy: Mm-hmm. Jaba: of mean, you know, like you'd said, you know, it's figuring out how to play in your own body as you're kinda growing at that age. Are are you saying basically just like how refined like the athleticism and movements are and if it looks awkward versus Jheremy: Yep. Basically exactly that. Like if you're an infielder, how do you move in the dirt? Like offensively in the box, like do you take the ball with intent? Are you in on every pitch? Bobby Whitt at fifteen looked like he was ready to erupt on any given pitch every single time. Like he takes a pitch. It you you wouldn't know until the last second if he was gonna let that barrel fly or if he was gonna take it because it was a ball six feet over his head. Just little things like that that you pick up on where it's like, okay, he's in on every pitch or How they move down the line. Connor Griffin was already like a plus runner when he was 14. Like just things that you can pick up on, how they move, how they just carry themselves. and you don't always get to see it. And they might go 0 for three and not get to run anything out or not have any balls hit to them. So you're gonna have to wait for your next look. But you start to get little things here and there, and I think that just kind of goes a long way when we get to see these players for two, three-year stretch. Jaba: Yeah, for sure. Alright, next one, I know what your first answer will be, so I'm gonna Jheremy: Okay. Jaba: I'm gonna ask you for three names here. What is the youngest player you've ever watched and immediately thought this kid is different? Jheremy: Mm-hmm. I mean, Angel Mantas when he was thirteen. Like, we we talked about him last episode. That's not a household name yet. But like at 13, he was putting balls out, breaking balls in the dirt. He was putting out of spring link spring training big league fields. So like that's different. But the first one I saw at an early age was probably Bobby Witt, where it was like this kid could go start in the SEC right now with shortstop as a 15 year old. The bat speed was like otherworldly, just and he was skinny. He was small, but he was so wiry and athletic and explosive that it just was different, like instantly. Connor was different at 13 and 14. He was already six foot two, had strides like a gazelle. And yeah, I mean, those are the two like household names I think that I saw at an early enough age where they were different and kind of carried that number one overall tag for a while in terms of prospect ranking. Then Angel Montas is you're gonna sign for six million with the Blue Jays in two years. He's a twenty twenty eight Bowman Chrome like top chase guy. So if you just again wanna go mark that one down, go for it. If you wanna go look him up on Twitter, I'd advise you to go watch every video you can. Jaba: And I I think it's interesting you included wit in there because with Connor Griffin and Angel Montas, you know, it's kinda like, okay, well those are guys that are also, you know, not only are they freak athletes, but they kinda had, you know, the build. I think Montos, you know, probably far and away the craziest one. But like you said, Connor was like six two, you know, he looked like you know, Olympic sprinter running. but I think it's interesting, you know, that it's not, you know, it's not just the physical thing, you know. Obviously you need these guys Jheremy: Mm-hmm. Jaba: to grow and if they stop growing 15, like I'm sure Bobby Witt wouldn't have, you know, at least become a perennial MVP Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: candidate. You know, it sounds like the talent alone would have, you know, at least got him, you know, on an elite Jheremy: god, yeah. Yeah. Jaba: college team at the very minimum. But, you know, I think it's interesting that that athleticism, it doesn't have to mean, you know, he's also in like a professional athlete's body. It can just be evident to you guys from, you know, seeing the motions, seeing their kind of mannerisms Jheremy: Correct. Okay. Mm-hmm. Jaba: and how they, you know, how they play baseball. baseball and basically how that carries into, you know, their future. I'm trying to kind of Jheremy: No doubt. And that's not to say it's not like Bobby was five eight either. Like at fifteen he was already like six foot, six one. It's like he had size. His dad was a big leaguer. He knew he was gonna grow and like he had muscle to him. He was just like that fast, fast, fast, fast twitch athlete where you could just tell he was different on the field. So Jaba: Okay. Yeah. Ne next one's kinda the opposite here. Have you ever seen a player go from a guy who was kind of an afterthought and turn themselves into an elite prospect? And if there are guys that come to mind, what kinda the Jheremy: God, yeah. All the time. Jaba: what is it I don't know if it's a common trend or if you want to give a few examples with specific things? Jheremy: you're gonna put me on the spot there. Jaba: Yeah, guys. Jeremy hasn't seen these either, so these are not planned answers. these are off the dome. Jheremy: I mean, one good name, like somebody somebody who he was still really good at thirteen fourteen. Like, don't get me wrong when I use this name. But what Roman Anthony transformed himself from from fourteen up until even seventeen, even sixteen, I think. Like it was a two-year gap where he just got so much more physical. He could always hit thirteen fourteen. Like, yeah, obviously he's not the strongest kid yet at thirteen fourteen. Like that's a that's a given. But come sixteen-seventeen, he was putting balls out with like the flick of a wrist. Where it was, you took that next step and then obviously went on to do everything he's done, made it to the big leagues at nineteen. Bowman cards are going insane. Like he was one I guess he just got stronger later. And that's not even a good example. That's just the first one that comes to mind of transforming. But that's like almost like a yeah, no kidding. He naturally got stronger. Like that's what happens. trying to think. There's gotta be some where it's like just like you're just talking like an absolute glow up where it was like. Jaba: Yeah. Jheremy: The kid hit the gyms, grew three inches. I remember seeing Cooper Pratt at 16 New Year. And this was more of just a physical thing. Like I saw him at growing up, like playing throughout, played in the up the middle with his dad, BPA, Yalabusha. Like, then he came out at I believe it was junior national, and he was just like six inches taller, like a completely different body. But he moved around like he was still five foot eight in the in the dirt. And he's kind of continued that. And that's that body control. Like he learned his body quick. And he went from being like a surefire, gonna start at Old Miss to being like a multi-million dollar sign out of high school. Now he signed that contract extension already. He's starting at shortstop. They're in the NLCS. Like he he just kind of like took that transformation. But again, that was that was he was the that was his Tom Hanks big moment. Like he became a whole different body over the course of six to eight months. Jaba: Yeah. And I mean Jheremy: As soon as soon as we hang up, I'm gonna think of like three really good ones that I wish I had said of just like the absolute glowest of all glow ups. Jaba: So th this one I didn't even have on my list. But like today, like these aren't necessarily, you know, guys that you're looking at for your thirteen, fourteen. These are kind of guys that are what's all sixteen, seventeen and you know, you've seen most of them. Jheremy: Mm-hmm. Jaba: But when you're at the field today and you're watching these guys, what are like the and I I obviously we talked about kinda like the athleticism and ability, but like what are some other things that you're looking at, you know, just for your personal opinion and like, okay, like this is gonna be a guy whose Bowman cards I will wanna buy? Like what Jheremy: Hmm. Jaba: are kind of the traits you're looking at Jheremy: Sure. Jaba: at the field and what are you seeing where you're like, I'm writing that name in the notes app and when he's in Bowman draft Jheremy: Right. Yep. Jaba: I'm all over For it. Jheremy: Yeah. I mean, now it's I mean, I'm at fifteen U right now, seventeen U's down the road, and I was there last night and you start looking like now everybody's throwing hard. Like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, you're not getting ninety every day, but now you're seeing it over at the seventeen U. And you start being like, All right, like how are they able to recognize spin? Are they able to see it deep and work the other way of a a breaking pitch? Can they make that adjustment? How do they handle this, that, the other? Like Now you're getting more into the nitty-gritty of pitch to pitch at bat to at bat with these guys. And conversely with arms too, like, yeah, you could throw hard when you were young, but now are you able to hit your spots? Are you able to sequence it correct correctly and execute it? Or are you gonna go like change up, change up, same side and leave them over the middle? the kid who threw a hundred last night, Samir Mohammed, was also throwing right on right changeups, which would you and he was locating them and it just like that was like As impressive as the hundred was, I think I heard more about his change ups and right on right change ups that he was able to execute last night than I did the hundred mile an hour heaters. Jaba: That's interesting too, because I I mean you see You see some analysis of pitchers now, you know, especially Jheremy: Mm-hmm. Jaba: in the minors, a bit in the majors, I think, you know, a lot of the time if you're not able to do it in the minors, they just take it off the table. But I mean, even for me, someone who's not like a scout or, you know, works in baseball for a living, you know, I feel like the right on right changeup is, you know, I don't want to call it like taboo, but I feel like so many guys are just unable to, you know, pull it off to a point where it's usable in a game. And I know guys Jheremy: Right. Jaba: like shit schlitz. With like the split change that's more of like a straight drop rather than a kind of arm side tail. Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: you know, it's a bit easier. But I think stuff like that's like interesting to hear about because like when you're looking at these guys a lot of the time, it's like okay, well, they can, you know, righties can throw their change up to lefties, but they really can't use it against righties, and then that's where like Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: the guys like Joe and a tong get hurt, where it's like really like a two, three pitch pitcher, where it's Jheremy: Yep. Jaba: like, okay, well, he can put away lefties. all day because he only needs the two elite pitches. But then when it comes to righties, you know, there's a need for like Jheremy: You need Jaba: a cutter or a slider or something because, you know, one of the pitches is basically off the board. Jheremy: No doubt. And I mean a right on right changeup, like why is it scary? Because if you start it in and you run it in more, you're going to hit them. If you start it too far like love side, it's going to run over and be middle, middle. So you actually have to have real feel for that to either dive it in under the hand, start it middle, have trust that it's going to come back over the black. Because there's a there's a much more room for error on same side changeups. And to see a 17-year-old kid execute it with confidence under like with with literally dozens and dozens of golf carts full of pro scouts watching him is it it deserves to be an impressive thing that's talked about just as much as his ninety nine on like his last pitch of the game. So Jaba: Yeah. I mean, I Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: I think for me I've always kind of been fascinated by pitching. I think it's probably from growing up a Mets fan where, you know, outside of David Wright and Jose Reyes, you know, most of the Mets stars in my life have been pitchers. I mean, like Johann Santana, obviously like one of the best change ups ever. You know, he was kinda like the first pitcher I was obsessed with. You know, that w that goes right into that next wave, whereas, you know, DeGrom, Sindegaard, you know, those types, and even now, you know, watching Nolan McLean with his And it's funny for me because like those are three names that are all three very different pitchers, right? I mean, Johan was Jheremy: Right. Jaba: lefty, obviously, but you know, he was never throwing hard. He was always a command guy, and obviously that kind of lines up with the era that he pitched in. But you know, Jheremy: Yep. Jaba: like I I always thought that, you know, that changeup was just so fun to watch. And the way that he kind of carried himself on the mound is a, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's not a particularly big dude either. I mean, he Jheremy: No. Jaba: he's filled out, but he's not like, you know, one of these guys that's a Giant out there that's terrifying. So with that thought, you know, like even in the last 20 years, pitchers have kind of gone from like, you know, command heavy, and then you have the guys like DeGrom, where it's like, you know, the stuff is disgusting. He's throwing 101 and he can locate it. And then now you get the guys like McLean that are still somewhat new to pitching, despite being, you know, a at least a really good number two in the MLB. And you know, you see his spin rates are just nuts, like on that curve, the cutter, on everything, the spin rates are nuts. How have you seen like pitching develop in your time? Because you've been doing this what 15 years now? What would you say Jheremy: Something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Jaba: have been the biggest like shifts in kind of pitchers and how they build their arsenal at a young age? Jheremy: I mean like velocity for sure is up, but that's not that's not anything like earth shattering, right? Like velo's up Jaba: Right. Jheremy: across the board everywhere. Like you watch Little League World Series, kids are mid to upper seventies at twelve years old. Like you see that VLO and it's like, okay. But now what how they're able to harness it and like their routines, the routines of what they do pre game, post game, in between starts, even at this age is like definitely something they've I've seen like kids are honed in on it where they're already becoming like little professionals with what they're doing. So the spin rates, spin metrics, those are big things. A lot of these guys have personal pitching coaches that they're honing in on, locking those kinds of things in. But yeah, I mean, the the biggest thing is without a doubt, VLO. Like at 15U when I first started seeing a kid in the upper eighties was like The hardest thrower of the event. And now you could go to almost any field and find something at fifteen U, like mid to upper eighties, it feels like. That's not to say it's still not good. It's very good. Like you're writing that name down every single time. But it's definitely just more common than it was in the past. But we also didn't have hundred mile an hour arms out of the bullpen for every single team back then either. So Jaba: Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it's funny to hear you say like, you know You look at the Little League World Series and kids are throwing like upper seventies, you know, pushing eighty. And it's like even like fifteen, twenty years ago I grew up reading all like the Mike Lupica books. I think anyone like around my age, you know, read all those. And it's like that one book he had called Heat, that was one of my favorites as a kid, you know, is basically about a kid, you know, Little League World Series age who could throw eighty. And that was like, you know, bordering on a fantasy book. And now and Jheremy: Right. Jaba: now it's like you're just seeing kids like basically pushing that, you know, maybe not left and right, but like it it's funny that in fifteen years that has gone from like a a book where it's just like totally unrealistic and like the stuff of dreams to now it's just Jheremy: Right. Jaba: like all these all these kids are doing it. Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: Last question, and I know we didn't like prepare you, we being myself. So Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: if you wanna think on this and kind of give like a more refined answer, that's okay. If you don't want to get into it, that's okay. But I'm just curious, like you've been doing this for 15 years. How did you get into this? And like, was it something you always wanted to do? Was it something you kinda found yourself doing one day and you were like, hey, I really like this? Like what's what's kind of the Jeremy Brown backstory? Like how how did you get to where you are? Yeah. Jheremy: So, like I'll I'll take it way back and I'll try to keep it really short too. So growing up, I grew up, we had a summer house on the Cape. We went to the Cape all the time. I would collect the autographs of the guys because it was just something to do before the games. It was Jaba: Yeah. Jheremy: fun. You get a program, you go see, look, it's draft time, and hey, I got this guy's autograph. But then even if you got every single kid in the league, you were still missing always the high school side of it. I was just curious, like, who are the best high school kids? How do you find out about them? This, that, the other. And I distinctly remember seeing Matt Harvey on the cover of a baseball America like splash page. He was in a Red Sox uniform and I couldn't figure out like where's that Red Sox uniform from? Why is he already in it? He's a high school kid. He's from he's from Groton, Connecticut, which was down the road Jaba: Right. Jheremy: from me. So like for me, that was a local kid. I'm like, what is all this? Like w and it was East Coast Pro, a big event put on by the scouts every summer. And just start Googling Matt Harvey. Then I came across Matt Harvey's Afflack card, which high school all American game, coincidentally enough, was run by Perfect Game, but Afflack was a sponsor. But like, hey, look, he has a baseball card. That's pretty sweet. And then I got it in. I thought Afflack was picking all the teams, but it's like, no, Perfect Game runs all these events. So then it got me into Perfect Game of just like, okay, these are the guys who run all the events, pick all these teams, do this, do that. Then I'm on that webpage every day growing up. And that Jaba: And at at this point you're 'cause I mean you're probably what, a year or two younger than Matt Harvey. So like we're talking about you're in the high school at this point. Jheremy: Yeah. I think he's I think he was like an O seven grad, an O eight gr six, six, seven, somewhere around there. I was an O nine, so he's Jaba: Yeah, 'cause yeah, 'cause I think the Mets took out of UNC in twenty ten. Jheremy: Yeah. So he w and so he was like a would have been like a senior when I was a freshman ish. But it was just like it Jaba: Yeah. Yep. Jheremy: drew me in. And at that age too, Robert Stock was going through his whole glow up, enrolled early at USC. That's when you realize, like, kids my age are throwing ninety and I'm nowhere near that. I guess I'm not as good as I thought I was. Let's let's pursue other career a avenues. And just like learning reading about perfect game, just everything that they had, the national showcases, all the players, the rankings. And eventually I when I got to college, I got into sport management because I didn't know what I wanted to do, but it had the word sport in it. And I figured it would just kind of fall into a something somewhere involving sports. Jaba: Sure. Jheremy: they had a summer internship, like, come down, we're gonna fly you down to Georgia three weeks, work the summer WWBAs, which we talked about earlier. And you're basically just out of field scoring games and scouting games for three straight weeks. Had a big rain delay, went up to the tower, started talking about the top guys I saw. And coincidentally enough, the owner of Perfect Game at the time, Jerry Ford, was up there and heard me talking about the prospects and goes, Why don't you come down to Jupiter? Which is the event I'm at now. and but this was what, 13 years ago? And basically met with him and he said, Once you graduate college, we're we want to get you a full-time job. And I started as one of three or four full-time scouts on it and just kind of learned along the way. Still learning now, 14 years later. found my niche with 13, 14U helping grow that age. And now I'm here. So it's been a long road, a lot of travel, a lot of baseball games, but a lot of fun too. So end of the day, parents are like, you still get paid to watch baseball. I'm like, you're right, I do. And I'm not going to complain. So long story short, long story Jaba: Yeah. I that yeah. Jheremy: short, Matt Harvey's Applat card got me into working for perfect game in in a way. Coincidentally enough. Jaba: Yeah, well I mean Matt Matt Harvey was a big part of me loving baseball and experiencing, you know, kind of that heartbreak and realizing how brutal of a game it can be. Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: I mean, it's crazy. Like I'm looking at his baseball reference right now, he put up a, you know, ten point two war in his first two years and his career war was nine point three. So I I mean, as a Mets fan I think, you know It it it's funny that you mention him of all people because, you know, growing up, you know, watching him, you know, when he I think he had an immaculate inning in the All Star game at Citi Field or he at least struck out the side. you know, it it it's funny how like interwoven some of these stories can be. I think, you know, I find it cool. I think a lot of people will find it cool that, you know, it's something you always liked and it kinda Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: you know, something that you knew you wanted to get into, but at the same time there was kind of just like a few coincidences that you Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: wound up and like now n now you're here. Jheremy: As Bob Ross would say, happy little mistakes all over the place. Like kind of led to a this. Like 'cause I was like I loved hockey growing up. It wasn't even baseball for me. There's too many levels, too many names. I couldn't like wrap my head around it. But just going to the summer league down on the Cape every summer, like seeing some of these guys and watching and like, yeah, I wanted to play on the Cape and then it quickly became like, okay, well, I'm not anywhere nearly good enough. But I still want to be involved with it because this is awesome. And that's kind of where I am. I would like to say, completely off beat, everyone thinks I have a upper hand in Bowman because of my job. I can promise you I don't. it it allows me to know who or what I like and why I like it, but I cannot buy futures, regardless of what people think. So ultimately it doesn't help me get ahead and stash anybody quicker than anybody else, because come draft time, come signing international J Sorry, January fifteenth, not J two anymore. I have equal amounts of information, if not less than what the normal public has from what you guys can read. So I do not have an upper hand. I just know what I look for and what I like. Jaba: Yeah, no, I think that's great. And like I said, I have a ton more questions. I could sit here for probably forty eight hours firing off questions. but yeah, we're we're definitely gonna keep this going. If listeners have questions, please send them in. I have a bunch more, but like, you know, listeners take priority. I think that this was awesome. I think it's really cool to hear. Also, Mike Dick had just died. Jheremy: Really? Jaba: So Yeah. Jheremy: well, we're gonna have to sign off with one for him today, so Jaba: One of my one one of my favorite movie characters of all time, growing up and kicking and screaming. You ever see that? with Will Farrell. Yeah. Jheremy: Love that. Yep. Jaba: that's that's tough, but yeah. That was a Jheremy: Yeah. Jaba: great episode. Thank you, Jeremy. I think you kinda Jheremy: You got it. Jaba: opening up and discussing this is awesome. not just for me. But for for Jheremy: And something I look forward to doing. So get me more questions. Jaba: everyone. And yeah, signing off here. Rest in peace, Mike Ditka. The Bears. See you guys. Jheremy: Later.