Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Travis Kennedy: Trust, AI, and Telling Water’s Story | Make Water Work 038

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Travis Kennedy: Trust, AI, and Telling Water’s Story | Make Water Work 038 · Make Water Work Podcast

0:00
Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast
0:02
where we dive into the people, ideas,
0:05
and innovation shaping the future of
0:07
water. Each week, we share those stories
0:10
and conversations with entrepreneurs,
0:13
community champions, and innovators who
0:15
are making water work for everyone.
0:18
Whether you're a water professional, a
0:20
curious innovator, or simply passionate
0:22
about our most precious resource, this
0:24
podcast is for you. Let's get started.
0:30
Today we are joined by a fascinating uh
0:34
guest who um I've had the privilege of
0:36
getting to know over my entire career um
0:38
in water since 2018. Um and th this
0:42
guest I'm excited to talk to him because
0:46
he does have a very unique perspective.
0:48
We talk a lot, you know, the title of
0:50
this podcast is how do you make water
0:52
work? Um, and we're often talking to
0:54
people who are working within their
0:55
communities, but there's also the
0:56
community of us solution providers and
0:59
people who help us make make it work for
1:02
for our customers. And so I'm joined
1:04
today by Travis Kennedy. Travis is the
1:07
chief industry officer of water and
1:10
environmental markets at Water Online,
1:12
which is a water and wastewater industry
1:15
go-to digital media platform, reaching
1:17
more than 1 million unique visitors
1:19
annually. He also hosts his own podcast,
1:22
The Water Online Show, alongside chief
1:25
editor Kevin Westerling, covering
1:27
operational and innovational topics
1:29
across municipal and industrial water
1:32
markets. So Travis, welcome to the Make
1:34
Waterwork podcast. Thanks, Isaac. It's
1:37
really nice to be here. You mentioned
1:38
the word fascinating. I have never been
1:40
introduced in any capacity as being
1:42
fascinating. So I will try to live up to
1:45
that kind of kind of hype. So yeah,
1:47
let's get it rolling. I'm really happy
1:48
to be here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you
1:51
know, I I'd be interested. This will
1:53
just be an engaging an engaging way to
1:56
engage our audience, but some folks on
1:58
the 120 water team have referred to you
2:00
as the Ryan Serest of Water. So, just
2:04
>> ju just know that. No pressure, but
2:06
that's that's um
2:09
>> that's how you're known internally.
2:10
>> I've heard that a few times. I'll try my
2:12
best though to try to differentiate.
2:14
>> Love it. Love it.
2:16
Um, yeah. So, we in starting this
2:20
podcast, one of the things, you know,
2:21
was like, hey, over almost a decade,
2:24
never met someone who didn't have a
2:25
story about how water found them. And
2:27
so, Travis, tell us how did water find
2:30
you?
2:31
>> So, it's it's interesting story. Um, I'm
2:33
sure like many, I didn't start out in
2:35
water. I didn't come out of out of
2:37
college and and decide, hey, I'm going
2:39
to go into the water industry. It was um
2:41
I was first in the in the fitness
2:43
industry. Um, I majored in
2:45
communications uh at school. I was in
2:48
marketing, sales in the in this ethos of
2:51
of fitness and um there was a a dotcom
2:56
darling uh that existed in the early
2:59
2000s called vertical net. And um the
3:02
vertical what vertical net did is they
3:04
had a number of industry specific
3:06
marketplaces that would bring buyers and
3:08
suppliers together. And we're talking
3:10
industries any industry you could name.
3:13
uh uh and when I made the jump from the
3:16
fitness industry to go uh to work at was
3:19
then at that point uh vert markets um
3:23
there are again all these different
3:24
audiences that I could have been
3:25
associated with but um I I chose water
3:29
>> and there number of reasons why I chose
3:31
to go into the water marketplace I mean
3:33
there numerous but the first one was
3:35
it's it's an essential part of life
3:38
>> when you talk about other industries
3:40
even B2B all of those uh have different
3:44
allures but with water it's an absolute
3:46
resource.
3:47
>> Yeah.
3:47
>> And um I went to my very first ace in
3:50
Los Angeles in 2004.
3:53
That's dating dating a little bit.
3:56
>> Um and uh from then on I was just
4:00
hooked. The I saw a number of things.
4:02
The camaraderie um it's very insular the
4:05
market everybody almost like a family
4:08
>> right. So these these conventions or
4:10
trade shows, live events you go to, it's
4:12
it's almost like a family reunion.
4:14
>> Yeah.
4:15
>> All working towards a really important
4:18
endgame,
4:19
>> which is provide clean and sustainable
4:22
water to everybody on Earth.
4:24
>> And from there, I was hooked. So I've
4:26
been here ever since and thrilled every
4:28
step of the way.
4:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. That that's awesome. I did
4:31
not know that um that it started in
4:35
2004. that really does give, you know,
4:38
for the purposes of our conversation,
4:40
one of the things that I wanted to dig
4:41
into was from your perspective
4:45
because you interface with um solution
4:48
providers across across the market. Um
4:52
how have things what have you observed
4:56
that has evolved in those you know 20
4:58
plus years?
4:59
>> Man, well uh from the standpoint of just
5:02
what was what were people talking about?
5:05
uh a when water online started. So water
5:08
online uh has been around since 1995 and
5:11
it was the very first business to
5:14
business website of any kind in the
5:16
United States. So when you take pause to
5:19
think about what that actually means. So
5:21
I mean in 1995
5:23
um I mean some of the topics that were
5:25
being discussed are uh really public
5:28
health risk uh was becoming visible back
5:30
then regulatory modernization that was
5:33
accelerated
5:34
>> infrastructure funding realities uh
5:36
surfaced. So we started become aware of
5:39
how uh our existing and we're still
5:41
talking about it today.
5:42
>> Yeah.
5:42
>> So you talk about a topic that's far
5:44
reaching. Um
5:46
>> so in in 95 that was a lot of what was
5:48
being discussed uh on the site and in
5:51
the communities that water on online um
5:53
talked to and and and presented content
5:56
to. But when I started in in 2003 there
5:59
was a shift from really like local
6:01
utility challenges to more of a global
6:03
water crisis type framing. So
6:07
>> water became a global policy and
6:09
economic issue. Uh the UN got involved.
6:11
I mean it was a big year for that. um
6:14
infrastructure gaps became uh quantified
6:17
and benchmarked. So we started putting
6:19
uh numbers on how old they were, what
6:22
was going wrong, why were they going
6:23
wrong, all of that. And really utilities
6:25
started focusing more on resiliency and
6:28
risk management than they ever had
6:29
before. So
6:31
>> two years only eight years apart, but
6:33
vastly different in what they were
6:35
focused on. So I mean there's a lot of
6:38
change that's that occurred just in
6:40
those eight years. But since 2003,
6:43
>> uh, you're still seeing similar type
6:45
issues pop up. They're just directed in
6:47
different areas. So, um, you know,
6:49
earlier in that time frame, in those
6:50
eight years that I'd mentioned, there
6:52
was like a cryptosperidium,
6:54
uh, outbreak in Milwaukee, right? So, we
6:56
started contaminants in groundwater,
6:59
>> uh, and affects the the water that gets
7:01
distributed to utility constituents.
7:04
That hasn't changed much. It's just now
7:06
we're talking about different
7:07
contaminants.
7:08
>> Yeah. Um so uh and then as you get to
7:11
resiliency and risk management that is
7:13
all evolved into the adoption of digital
7:16
water,
7:17
>> right? Same kind of issues, same kind of
7:20
problems. It's just how are we answering
7:22
them
7:23
>> that's sort of uh making the difference
7:25
of of how the markets evolved since
7:27
then. So
7:28
>> yeah. Yeah, I like that insight. It's
7:30
the what it why we why we do it hasn't
7:34
really changed. what we're dealing with
7:37
maybe has changed specifically, but what
7:39
has evolved is how we're addressing it.
7:42
Um, it's funny like when you were saying
7:44
that it was started in 1995, that's just
7:47
4 years after the 1991 um let in copper
7:50
rule, the first lead in copper rule. So
7:52
that to me that's one of those
7:54
benchmarks of like okay there's
7:56
something that's going to have more
7:58
public awareness and there's
8:01
um you can you can let me know if you
8:02
agree with this but over time it's just
8:04
like the things that are getting
8:06
regulated are just more of the
8:10
requirements around that regulation also
8:13
include a lot more communication and
8:15
that brings in this
8:17
um wildcard variable for utilities which
8:21
is the public. And you don't know how
8:26
>> 1,000%
8:28
transparency and communication is
8:30
important, but you also have something
8:31
that is um a stakeholder that is a
8:35
little less predictable,
8:37
whereas contaminants on some level are
8:41
predictable or the way you treat it is
8:43
is predictable, but um communication
8:45
isn't. Uh that that's a great point
8:48
Isaac and we can talk about this as we
8:49
go through our conversation but a lot of
8:51
what I try to to uh get through to the
8:54
marketplace has a lot to do with
8:57
communication whether on utility side
8:59
out to it its constituents or on the
9:01
supplier side and solutions provider
9:03
side to the actual utility. Um there's a
9:07
communication gap there that I can go I
9:10
can go on for days but I won't but we
9:12
can we can sort of dive into that as
9:14
conversation but you are absolutely 100%
9:16
accurate in that assessment as far as
9:18
I'm concerned. So uh yeah I'm on the
9:21
same page there.
9:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well and tell me some about
9:25
um more of
9:28
you know in on water online. you've
9:30
recently covered the top 10 trends
9:32
shaping water in 2026 um on your show
9:36
and you know this was kind of we were at
9:38
uh in Tampa at the Swan Conference
9:40
together and really kind of seemed to be
9:43
the theme of the of
9:44
>> of that uh that conference overall but
9:47
but dive into that a little bit more um
9:49
and we can certainly link to that um in
9:51
our show notes too.
9:53
>> I mean without a doubt. So, you know,
9:56
uh, Kevin and I did an episode of the
9:58
water online show earlier this year
9:59
where we talked about top 10 trends
10:01
shaping water for 2026 and digital
10:03
transformation was one of those.
10:06
>> Um, can sort of dive into that in a
10:08
minute, but I I also want to make sure
10:09
that we're focused on a on on the
10:12
contaminant side um, and water
10:14
distribution and and distribution rehab
10:16
and condition assessment. So, things
10:18
like POS, you'd alluded to this earlier,
10:20
uh, lead and copper, right? Those are
10:22
all all issues that continue to exist
10:25
that are at the forefront of the
10:26
marketplace. So when we talk about
10:29
trends, digital water is a big part of
10:31
that, but also there's a a basic
10:33
component to it related to what we're
10:36
delivering as an industry to the
10:38
constituents. But on digital on from the
10:40
digital water standpoint, and that
10:42
includes AI, right?
10:45
>> And there's a lot of questions around
10:47
AI. How is it going to impact the
10:49
market? How is it going to change uh the
10:51
jobs that we all do? Uh is it going to
10:54
impact us in a negative way? And um
10:57
spent a lot of time talking to both
10:59
suppliers and utilities uh on this
11:01
particular topic. And one thing to keep
11:03
in mind that one thematic uh point that
11:06
keeps coming through is that in another
11:08
10 years, AI is not even going to be
11:11
part of the vernacular. The same way
11:12
that internet is not part of our
11:14
vernacular anymore. I mean,
11:16
>> you know, it's going to be part of our
11:18
dayto-day
11:20
aspect of our life and that that does
11:22
not exclude
11:24
>> delivering clean, safe water
11:26
consistently to everybody, it's going to
11:28
be part of it. So, um yeah, from a trend
11:32
standpoint, digital the digital
11:34
transformation that's occurring right
11:35
now to me, this is exciting, right? This
11:37
is disruptive. It's um
11:40
>> I mean without a doubt every utility
11:43
>> at least in the United States is going
11:45
through a digital transformation. It's
11:48
just a question of where are they?
11:50
>> Yep.
11:50
>> Right. It's no longer are they, it's
11:52
where are they. So it's exciting stuff.
11:54
It really is.
11:55
>> And it's another reason why we're here,
11:57
right, Isaac? It's another reason why
11:58
we're in this industry.
12:00
>> Absolutely. And it's also like we I'll
12:04
I'll come back to the the AI um
12:08
conversation in a moment, but I also
12:10
think that one of the things that you
12:12
know you in particular um with with
12:15
water online in the communication aspect
12:18
because you've been in the market for so
12:20
long, I do actually I do think that
12:22
there's a degree of trust from your
12:26
publication that has uh that that has
12:30
made at at least valuable to to me as
12:32
someone who who represents a a solution
12:34
provider and is trying to connect our
12:36
solution with someone else. You know,
12:38
you built an audience that understands
12:42
clearly why you exist, what you talk
12:45
about and those kind of things. Whether
12:47
that's connecting it through content for
12:50
different um different stages of a lead
12:54
life cycle um which uh or having media
12:59
outlets like um like you have your own
13:01
podcast and you have um other ways of
13:04
getting messages out um as well. And I
13:07
think um I I find it interesting that
13:11
there are as much as we're out there
13:14
saying, "Hey, here's how you keep your
13:17
the water utility assets up to speed.
13:20
Here's how you do this." There there's
13:22
that whole aspect in a goto market
13:26
function that is how are you closing the
13:28
leaky funnel. We we use all these all
13:31
these terms. It's like, you know, hey,
13:34
things are coming in top. are you
13:35
nurturing them? What's our pipeline of
13:38
deals and those kind of things? And I I
13:41
find it fascinating um that we work both
13:44
within water where sometimes those
13:45
analogies break down because we're
13:48
talking to people who actually have
13:51
leaky pipes and and then when we're
13:54
talking, you know, abstractly about our
13:56
businesses, we're like, "All right,
13:57
where are we closing where are we
13:58
closing the gaps and the leaks um in in
14:01
our funnels?" But um just kind of giving
14:04
you an opportunity too to talk about the
14:05
value of the water online platform for
14:10
solution providers.
14:12
>> Well, I appreciate that. So yeah, what
14:14
you alluded to is if you take how
14:18
marketing was historically done in the '
14:21
50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, early part of
14:23
the 2000s, all of it I I call it the
14:25
Madman era. If you ever watched Mad Men,
14:27
one of my favorite shows ever,
14:29
>> right? It was all about like the sales
14:30
pitch, right? It was you should buy our
14:33
product because it's the best you've
14:35
ever seen. It does all these things that
14:37
nobody else does. It's revolutionary
14:40
>> and you should just buy it and I can
14:43
sign the order and we can go on our way.
14:45
Like big big display advertising really
14:48
like a billboard in Times Square like
14:50
that type of thing. Um,
14:52
and what we found is that uh when
14:56
everybody started going digital with
14:58
pretty much every habit they had, and
14:59
that included researching buying
15:02
decisions,
15:03
that display advertising wasn't getting
15:06
the outcomes that it did 10, 20, 30, 40,
15:09
50 years ago. And there's a reason for
15:11
that. The reason is because when
15:13
somebody goes online to research before
15:17
making any kind of buying decision, they
15:20
want to know that what they are reading
15:22
is from a supplier that understands what
15:25
their problems are,
15:26
>> is empathetic to what their struggles
15:28
are and wants to be a partner with them
15:31
versus sell them something and then
15:33
disappear. Yeah.
15:34
>> Right. So, um there's three different
15:37
categories that and this is very loose
15:40
but um I could go deeper but I won't I
15:43
don't want to bore anybody but there's
15:44
really three categories of the buyer's
15:46
journey that a utility would be in at
15:49
any given time right so there's early
15:51
buyer journey where it's really all
15:53
about thought leadership type content
15:55
that they are consume right
15:58
>> and I would encourage any utility to
16:00
kind of uh correct me if I'm wrong in
16:01
any of this but every uh person that
16:04
works for utility as part of our our
16:06
readership has validated that that's
16:08
indeed the case. They're more likely to
16:11
engage in more thought leadership type
16:12
content that's topical or relates to a
16:15
problem that they have or points out a
16:16
problem they probably weren't maybe even
16:18
weren't aware of.
16:19
>> Likely to engage in that type of
16:20
content. And then the middle part of
16:23
their buyer's journey where they start
16:24
trying to figure out all right what
16:25
technology am I going to use? Um what
16:29
are the specifics of the finances? What
16:31
are who all the stakeholders? who's
16:33
going to implement it, all of that. So
16:35
things like case studies, application
16:36
notes, those all fit into the middle
16:38
part of the buyer's journey. They're
16:39
more apt to engage there. The later part
16:43
of the buyer's journey is when they
16:44
start trying to decide, all right, I
16:46
figured out what technology I want to
16:48
use. I figure out how I want to solve
16:49
the problem. I figured out who the
16:50
stakeholders are, how I'm going to pay
16:51
for it, all of that. I just want to
16:53
know, am I going to go with vendor A, B,
16:56
C, or D? That's when start interacting
16:59
engaging in brochures and data sheets
17:01
and videos and that type of thing.
17:03
>> So it's almost like a there's a there's
17:06
a cadence to it right and a process
17:08
similar to a salesunnel. It equates very
17:11
very uh very well almost mirrors it. So
17:15
that is how utility workers and
17:17
consulting engineers and engineers
17:19
operators that's how they research an
17:21
actual project. It's no longer, hey, I
17:24
saw a picture of your pump on a, you
17:26
know, Times Square. Um, you know, I hear
17:29
it's the greatest thing ever. I want to
17:30
buy it.
17:32
>> So, it's it's just really a change in
17:34
user behavior, that's all.
17:35
>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. And that that's a
17:38
good segue. um you know when when you
17:41
were talking a little bit about the
17:44
where AI has entered the conversation
17:46
and you know when we talk more
17:48
specifically about how it will be used
17:52
within the industry um I come back to I
17:55
think it was uh James Cooper from
17:58
Arcadus has a presentation um and and
18:02
it's a it's a a stat where the you know
18:05
60% of the water and wor wastewater
18:08
workforce
18:09
um is working in the field. And so I
18:12
think there is a part of the
18:16
work that gets done that some of no
18:20
matter how much AI you have, it's not
18:23
going to um dig a trench,
18:28
pull out a pipe, and put a new one in.
18:30
But the tools that are used to say,
18:32
"Hey, here's where the problem is.
18:34
>> Here's here's how to get the materials
18:36
there. here's the M like there's
18:38
probably going to be a lot of more
18:41
sophisticated algorithms happening under
18:44
under the hood to say hey how are we
18:47
tracking that how are we understanding
18:49
that and how are we understanding the
18:51
feedback loop into our long-term capital
18:54
improvement plan or um um things like
18:57
that and so um yeah but AI is everywhere
19:01
especially this year at ACE it was like
19:03
near on nearly everyone's booth it was
19:06
like AI agent and there's a part of me
19:09
that looks at that as like
19:11
cool the problem that we still need to
19:14
solve and be clear about is are we
19:16
helping you go to a place do a thing do
19:19
it with less risk to
19:23
your yourself your job um or your
19:26
community um and the and those kind of
19:28
things but um yeah cur curious your
19:30
thoughts even in in context of just
19:32
coming off of the heels of ACE
19:33
>> sure I mean the innovation hub was was
19:36
really bumping the entire show. It's
19:38
right. I mean, you you were right across
19:40
from it, um, I believe, or right down
19:43
>> and your, uh, the 120 water booth was
19:45
was crowded in and of itself
19:47
>> in the innovation. You're right. A lot
19:48
of it was AI driven.
19:50
>> Uh, and I that's exciting to me and I
19:52
always equate AI in the water market to
19:55
like a a um an auto mechanic, right? So,
20:00
>> uh, think of all of the advances we've
20:02
made in terms of automobiles and how it
20:05
reports diagnostics and what's wrong
20:07
with where the problem is or where there
20:09
might be a problem in the future. Um,
20:11
that kind of thing. So, um, we don't
20:14
have less auto mechanics, right? You
20:16
have to be out there to do the work.
20:18
>> The technology, a lot like AI and water,
20:21
the technology is just allowing you to
20:24
get to the problem quicker
20:25
>> or identify that there might be a
20:27
problem quicker. Um,
20:30
>> so
20:30
>> I love that analogy.
20:32
>> It it I mean it lines up, right? Because
20:34
we're still going to need all hands on
20:36
deck.
20:37
what we're delivering as an industry is
20:39
too important to get wrong.
20:41
>> And without the knowledge, without the
20:44
the uh the hands-on approach, as you
20:46
mentioned, 60% are out in the field.
20:47
That sounds right to me.
20:49
>> Um
20:50
>> we can't deliver what we promise uh our
20:54
constituents, the utilities, customers,
20:55
all of those. We can't promise that
20:57
without the work that they do. So,
21:00
>> it it to me it's exciting. It's going to
21:02
make It should make everybody's job a
21:05
little easier and also more impactful.
21:09
>> Yeah,
21:09
>> that's all exciting. It It should be all
21:11
good news as far as I'm
21:13
>> Yeah, man. I I feel like that that
21:16
analogy just kind of my brain just
21:19
started taking off with it because I
21:20
just had um like my my air conditioner
21:23
in my um car was wasn't working. I
21:26
brought it in. But now, like because
21:29
everything's tied to a VIN number, um
21:32
there's uh the Carfax app, like no
21:36
matter who works on the car, I have a
21:38
history. I don't need to remember to
21:39
keep the receipts anymore. Um there's
21:42
more transparency. Um if I go to sell
21:45
sell that car, like those records are
21:47
now digital. And that's it. I think
21:50
that's a that's a great analogy that
21:52
like I still take it to the mechanic.
21:55
I'm I'm not going to do the do the work.
21:58
But there's more there is a higher
22:00
degree of accountability between like,
22:03
hey, we're seeing the same thing. We
22:05
know what the problems are. We know what
22:06
the history is um on on this vehicle.
22:10
And so I have uh I don't have to wonder
22:14
as much if if I'm bringing it to someone
22:17
who like can I really trust them? Those
22:18
kind of things cuz right,
22:20
>> you know.
22:20
>> Exactly. Because we always say like
22:22
business moves at the speed of trust.
22:24
And when you're talking about the
22:25
content and those different things, it
22:27
is like building trust is a journey, but
22:31
it can be accelerated if you're meeting
22:34
the person at the right
22:37
place where they are with the right
22:39
message. And it doesn't always have to
22:40
be like I've got the best thing. It's
22:42
like, hey, I understand. Let's just
22:45
talk. Like what is what is the problem
22:47
you're trying to solve? And if I can't
22:48
solve it, I'll at least point you in the
22:50
direction of of someone who can.
22:52
>> Without a doubt. And it I like the way
22:54
you put it like the speed of trust
22:56
because that that's really how our
22:58
industry like other industries go along
23:00
a similar path. But in water,
23:03
>> it's the same track, right? Whether
23:05
we're talking about solutions providers
23:06
to utilities or utilities to their
23:08
constituents and customers, right?
23:11
>> Those interactions only move at the
23:13
speed of how how well they trust each
23:16
other,
23:16
>> right? And that of course then leads you
23:19
to all right so what's the communication
23:21
look like between those entities um how
23:25
all that works. So I'm with you right
23:27
I'm with you. I mean AI is going to
23:28
bring with it um a level of
23:30
accountability and increase trust
23:33
because it's all visible
23:34
>> and take some of that and apply it to
23:38
not necessarily AI but take that trust
23:40
factor and apply it how we're
23:43
communicating with each other throughout
23:45
the entire the entire industry. Yeah.
23:47
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think as long as
23:50
as long as we're mindful that it doesn't
23:53
erode our in-person authenticity, then
23:57
then I I think and I I do think that
23:59
that is one of those aspects that we're
24:01
grappling with is like, okay, what what
24:03
are the parameters? What's the right
24:04
container for this technology? Um that
24:07
it still
24:08
>> um helps us be helps us do our job but
24:12
not at the expense of um of human
24:15
connection. Um I think there's uh there
24:19
there's a lot of a lot of great
24:20
conversations happening around that um
24:24
everywhere from policy, politics, local
24:27
communities, how are we going to support
24:28
this? Um um everything
24:32
>> communication that's what's important,
24:33
you know.
24:34
>> Yeah,
24:34
>> it touches every bit of the market.
24:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I'm I I want
24:41
to kind of talk a little bit about, you
24:43
know, where water goes from here. Like,
24:46
um, you know, we've kind of hit on this
24:48
a couple times, but from from your seat,
24:50
you've talked to hundreds of probably
24:52
thousands um of of operators, engineers,
24:56
regulators, and um, solution providers.
24:59
Um, what do you think the water sector
25:01
is getting right right now?
25:04
I mean, man, there's there's a lot that
25:06
the water sector is getting right right
25:08
now. And it and it doesn't get enough
25:10
credit for it. It really doesn't. I
25:12
mean, again, it goes comes down to
25:13
communication. Um, but first, there's a
25:16
level of,
25:17
>> how do I put this? Operational
25:18
resilience
25:20
>> in this industry. That's pretty
25:21
remarkable. I mean, you're talking about
25:23
systems that are expected to work 24/7
25:26
under in regulatory pressure, aging
25:28
infrastructure, workforce shortages, and
25:31
for the most part, they do. They work.
25:33
They deliver right operators and
25:35
engineers are solving complex problems
25:39
every single day and almost every minute
25:43
it seems with real limited resources. So
25:46
that consistency is something most
25:48
industries can't replicate.
25:51
>> So when it comes to getting things right
25:53
that's first and foremost. I also think,
25:56
>> you know, secondarily to that, but
25:58
almost equally as important, I think the
26:00
industry has gotten much more open to
26:02
innovation
26:03
>> than it was even, I don't know, 5 10
26:06
years ago, much less way back when, like
26:09
1900s.
26:10
>> Uh, I mean, utilities are piloting new
26:13
technologies and and vendors are
26:15
bringing in more datadriven solutions,
26:17
which we just uh touched on. There's a
26:19
there's a growing willingness to test,
26:22
learn, iterate and and it is not
26:25
happening overnight, but the mindset
26:27
itself has shifted from prove it over 20
26:30
years to at least
26:31
>> let's take a look at that. Yeah.
26:33
>> Right. So
26:34
>> that's that really that's number two.
26:36
But um just a couple more thoughts
26:38
because I love the question. Um again
26:41
water sector doesn't get enough credit
26:42
for what it's right.
26:44
>> Um it only sort of shows up in a
26:46
headline when something goes wrong.
26:48
But there's also been real progress in
26:50
collaboration. You're seeing stronger
26:52
alignment between utilities, regulators,
26:55
solutions providers. They're
26:56
communicating better, which is exactly
26:58
what we want. We want open
27:00
communication. So whether that's around
27:02
like POS or cyber security or
27:04
infrastructure funding,
27:06
>> the conversation is more transparent.
27:09
There's been a shared understanding that
27:10
these challenges are just too big for
27:12
one of those groups to solve by
27:14
themselves.
27:16
Um, those are three big things as it
27:19
relates to where's the what is the water
27:21
industry actually getting right. I could
27:22
go on for days.
27:23
>> Yeah.
27:24
>> Another 10 I could rattle off, but I'll
27:26
leave it at those three because they're
27:27
big ones.
27:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I absolutely agree.
27:32
And I I what I have found, you know,
27:35
prior to 120 Water, I was in um B2B
27:38
software, sales and marketing
27:40
technology, contract, blogging, email,
27:42
um all those kind of things. But what
27:45
was different about the water industry
27:47
was um one the posture of of the um of
27:53
the water operators is you quickly
27:56
understand that they
27:58
are placemakers. They care about their
28:01
place. They're they're committed to
28:03
their community. Um and that's a high
28:05
value. And so um and so they're
28:11
naturally and rightfully protective. And
28:14
so sometimes they'll make they'll make
28:17
you work a little bit harder to say,
28:19
"Hey, I'm not just going to let you give
28:22
me the pitch. I want to understand what
28:25
this is." And it's incumbent on you,
28:27
solution provider, to lower the barrier
28:30
>> of entry so that I can how can I feel
28:34
more comfortable about that? Whether
28:35
that's a pilot or um or doing something
28:39
with um with uh a case study. who else
28:43
has done this before? Like there's there
28:45
are all those things where they're going
28:47
to hold you accountable to that. And I
28:48
think and I think that's
28:51
really really good. Um and and
28:55
um it can it can feel like it's slowing
28:58
something down, but it's doing a lot
29:01
more due diligence up front that once
29:03
you cross that barrier, you're
29:07
you've developed I mean we we have a
29:09
customer advisory board. We met with
29:11
them um at ACE. We had um lunch with
29:14
them. But so you're creating feedback
29:15
loops where you're like you're we're not
29:17
just delivering one thing. It's we're
29:19
establishing a relationship and a
29:21
conversation to say where can this keep
29:23
going. Um and I think that's a a mindset
29:25
shift that they really support.
29:27
>> You're communicating.
29:28
>> Yeah.
29:29
>> And you're creating trust,
29:30
>> right? Crux of everything that we're
29:32
talking about here today could not be
29:34
more important. Communication and trust.
29:37
Those are the two areas. And 120 water
29:38
does that really well, I have to say.
29:40
>> Well, yeah. Well, thank you. And um
29:43
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, if you
29:45
could get every water professional to
29:48
intern internalize one idea before the
29:50
end of 2026, so tall order. Um
29:54
>> what do you what do you think what do
29:56
you think that would be,
29:57
>> man? Well, I mean, if we're looking
29:59
forward, um I mean, if I could get every
30:03
water professional to internalize one
30:04
idea, it would probably be this.
30:07
what you do isn't just important, it
30:10
needs to be understood. So again, it
30:12
comes down to communication and trust.
30:14
So what I mean by that is like for a
30:16
long time the industry has operated
30:18
>> under this assumption that doing the
30:20
work well is well is just quite frankly
30:22
that's enough. And to be clear that's
30:24
the foundation as far as I'm concerned.
30:26
That's really the sort of the foundation
30:28
of what we're working off of. But we're
30:30
at a point now where that alone doesn't
30:32
carry the weight that it used to. I
30:34
mean, there's funding decisions,
30:35
regulatory direction, public trust. I
30:37
mean, that's a big one. They're all
30:39
influenced by how well the story of that
30:42
work is communicated. If people don't
30:44
understand what it takes to deliver
30:46
safe, reliable, consistent water. If
30:48
they don't see the complexity and the
30:51
tradeoffs and the the cost of an action,
30:53
then it becomes,
30:54
>> man, it just becomes really difficult to
30:56
sustain the systems that we all rely on.
30:59
Um
31:00
>> so I mean that at its core is need you
31:04
to internalize the fact that just doing
31:06
the job is the foundation but it needs
31:09
to be communicated in a way that your
31:11
customers whether you're a solutions
31:12
provider
31:13
>> uh customers are those utilities or the
31:15
utilities and your customers are those
31:17
constituents that you serve um in the
31:20
community. You have to communicate so
31:22
that the work you're doing is understood
31:25
not just proof of concept.
31:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I love I love that so much
31:30
and I I think I can speak for for myself
31:34
in in just saying that that that was one
31:36
of the one of the keys like for me
31:39
coming into the water industry in 2018
31:42
was finding like hey who are the people
31:44
that can be guides to saying how my my
31:49
question was how how do I understand
31:53
this audience? How do I understand um
31:57
what works and what doesn't? What
31:59
posture um do I need to take? And you
32:01
know, I remember meeting you at our um
32:04
first ace and um and getting,
32:08
>> you know, getting the
32:09
>> um the you know, I can remember you
32:12
showing up with I think it it was a
32:13
binder that was showing like, hey, here
32:16
here's what you get with water online.
32:18
Here's our audience. Here's this. It was
32:19
clearly articulated. And you know, we've
32:21
we've joked in the past. I've said, you
32:23
know, you can't spell water online
32:25
without without R, O, and I,
32:27
>> which I've stolen. I've stolen that
32:28
because I love it.
32:30
>> Um, yeah, and I but I think it is just a
32:33
having clarity about what are the
32:36
channels, how are we going to
32:37
communicate this? Um, that's that's been
32:40
helpful. And just like we talk about
32:42
with um I know this is a this is a
32:45
little bit of a commercial for water
32:46
online but but I it's it's welld
32:49
deserved because I think you know just
32:52
like we're telling our our customers
32:54
like hey you need to communicate and
32:57
have dashboards about how things are
32:59
working like that that is part of what's
33:01
built into the system. And so, um,
33:04
understanding, hey, when we're putting
33:05
out this piece of content, we're seeing
33:07
how it's performing within an audience
33:09
that we know we want to reach. Um, um,
33:13
there's a I think the hardest thing with
33:16
this era is there's so much noise. And
33:18
so, the challenge isn't getting a
33:21
message out to the to everyone, it's
33:23
getting a message out to the right ones.
33:26
And so, um, I think that's, uh, that
33:30
that's something that that you and and
33:33
the team at Water Online have have done
33:35
really well as you've as you've grown.
33:37
Um, and you you guys have been adding to
33:39
your team, too.
33:41
>> We have. Yes, we have been. So, uh, it's
33:43
it's ever expanding as needs pop up and
33:46
the way that we we present content is
33:49
constantly evolving. So that includes
33:52
needing to bring in new people with
33:54
fresh ideas as to the best way to do
33:56
that. And we can merge that with our um
33:59
industry knowledge that we've gained
34:00
over the past 20 plus years as to how
34:03
engineers and operators like to receive
34:05
that that kind of uh that kind of
34:07
content. I mean, you're right. In in in
34:10
a in a sense, if if every solutions
34:12
provider was given the choice of like,
34:14
all right, if I could get
34:18
a thousand people, a thousand operators
34:20
and engineers into a room to hear what I
34:22
have to say and then be able to to know
34:25
that they are within my my purview of of
34:28
who our solutions can actually help,
34:31
99 out of a hundred would sign up for it
34:33
tomorrow because they visualize them
34:35
being in a room. But water online works
34:37
the exact same way. We are going to get
34:39
you in front of those engineers,
34:40
operators, regulators, um, contractors
34:44
that are involved in this. And there's
34:46
really, I mean, we've broken it down to
34:49
there's about 5.4 I know that's oddly
34:52
specific, but about 5.4 for stakeholders
34:56
when uh at any utility on average and
34:59
we're talking, you know, it can be DC
35:00
water all the way down to a twoperson
35:03
show, you know, in the middle of of
35:05
Idaho. Um, but there's usually about 5.4
35:08
stakeholders uh for any any system uh
35:12
engineered or otherwise is is purchased.
35:14
Um, so it's important to make sure that
35:16
you're you're speaking to hitting on all
35:19
of them because all of those
35:20
stakeholders are going to have different
35:21
reasons for wanting to invest in your
35:23
solution.
35:24
>> Um, they all have different
35:25
responsibilities to their constituents
35:27
of which they deliver water for. So it's
35:29
important that's why we're communication
35:31
and content uh and the buyer's journey
35:34
it all it all sort of works in
35:36
conjunction and lock step with helping
35:39
to keep the move the industry moving
35:41
forward uh and having utilities
35:44
engineers uh end users and solutions
35:46
providers just sort of all working
35:48
together towards the exact
35:50
>> and the goal is not hard to decipher.
35:52
It's again where clean, safe, and
35:54
consistent drinking water.
35:56
>> Um, and being able to treat and move
35:58
waste water as well.
36:00
>> The entire system providing that for
36:02
everybody. It's a it's a resource and
36:04
it's a it's a right. So, um, we're on
36:07
the right we're on the right side, I
36:09
think, uh, when it comes to to what
36:11
we're doing here in this market.
36:12
>> Yeah, I love that. I don't I don't think
36:14
you could have said it any clearer that
36:17
the the best part of this of this
36:20
industry is it's kind of clear from the
36:22
start what our mission is and we're just
36:25
going to get in the room and and kind of
36:26
figure it out. Um and we're committed to
36:29
that.
36:30
>> What was the life expectancy before we
36:31
started treating water? I think it was
36:33
like 30 or 40 years old
36:36
>> on average, right? we had a way to to to
36:40
treat and distribute clean water.
36:43
>> Um, vitally important. So,
36:46
>> man, I can't see I can't see ever
36:48
leaving the industry. I just think it's
36:50
it's an amazing place to be and
36:52
>> Yeah.
36:52
>> We're all part of the same family.
36:54
>> Yeah. Yeah, we are. Yeah. And I and I
36:57
can't thank you enough for for being a
36:59
leader in helping helping make water
37:01
work to use the cheesy line for for
37:03
folks like me um and and um other
37:07
solution providers who are um you know I
37:10
I know we come with our sales pitches.
37:12
It it it comes kind of comes with the
37:14
territory but but our um but our intent
37:18
is is authentic and it and it's really
37:21
good to have
37:22
>> folks who nurture that community. Um,
37:24
and so thank you so much for for what
37:26
you've done and what you've built with
37:28
with your team um, at Water Online.
37:31
>> We're excited. We're excited about the
37:32
industry, where it's going, and we're
37:34
really excited about 2026 and and as we
37:36
go into 2027, there's just so much that
37:38
we could talk about. I know we have a,
37:41
you know, we we these episodes aren't
37:43
like five hours long, right? Because you
37:45
and I probably riff on this for for a
37:47
long time.
37:48
>> We could. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. The
37:50
Yeah, we we'll we'll land the plane. Um
37:53
here there's if people want more,
37:55
they're going to have to come to a come
37:57
to a conference, see you at a see you at
37:59
at WFTE. Um um yeah, there's there's uh
38:04
you're you're you are around and and
38:07
very accessible. And so um yeah, so I
38:11
again just thank you for for uh
38:14
indulging me when I when I saw you a
38:16
couple weeks ago at Swan. I was like,
38:17
you know, we I know that you've talked
38:20
to a lot of folks. You interview people.
38:22
It would be fun to to flip the mic and
38:24
actually be like, "Hey, you've got a
38:25
story, too."
38:27
>> Well, I'm in the hot seat now, and it uh
38:30
I I didn't mind being here. You're the
38:32
um
38:33
>> uh you know, you and I go way back.
38:34
We're friends, and uh so you you made it
38:37
uh very non-intimidating to be on the on
38:39
the other side of of these
38:41
conversations. So, I thank you for that.
38:43
An absolute pleasure to be here.
38:44
>> Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you. And
38:46
thank you to everyone who tuned in. Um
38:48
this is a a really fun podcast. We get
38:51
to have a lot of um great conversations
38:53
um with folks all across the spectrum.
38:56
Um and thank you for tuning in. We love
39:00
when we hear from you. Tell us um feel
39:03
free to let us know. Um like, share,
39:05
comment. Um that helps helps with
39:08
getting the message out. And then if
39:10
there's someone you want to hear from or
39:12
or if you're like, "Hey, I think I have
39:13
a story that I would love to tell." Um
39:15
I've had a number of guests uh that have
39:17
reached out that way. Um, and and I
39:19
appreciate it and I take it um and I and
39:22
I'm honored when when folks um reach out
39:24
and say, "Hey, it's it's a little
39:27
intimidating. I have a story to tell,
39:28
but um but I've had some really great
39:30
guests that way, too." So,
39:32
>> not intimidating. Make it non
39:34
intimidating, which is great. Yeah.
39:35
>> Yeah. Thank you. I try. I'm I'm It's
39:38
It's a It's a It's a craft I'm I'm
39:41
working on. Um but yeah, well and thank
39:44
you everyone and we'll see you next