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Does it Matter if You Know Your Enneagram Type? | a Simply Wholehearted Foundations Episode · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I've known so many sevens that are so much more fun than me, including you, Amy.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: That language was just hard for me to see myself in it.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: But once I got down to the lies, I was like, there's no denying.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, here we go.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, your wholehearted living coach.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that you stopped by to spend some time with me.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you curious about the Enneagram?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to learn biblical truths?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And have you wondered if there are life rhythms that will help you thrive?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friend, then you are in the right place.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: For six years, this podcast has focused on sharing conversations with my friends about life, business, motherhood, faith, and all things Enneagram from a Christian perspective.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I truly understand what it's like to juggle everything as a wife, mom to three teenagers, a pup, and all while building a growing business.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And friend, I have always done things with clarity, peace, or joy.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: But still, the Lord has taken my broken-hearted pieces and healed them so I can live with whole-hearted rhythms to provide women like you with a step-by-step process so you can get free of anxiety, shame, and frustrations that might be holding you back from thriving.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I pray that the Lord speaks to you as you listen today and that you would invite your friends and family to join the fun conversations.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to laugh a little and learn a whole lot?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty, let's get to the conversation.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there, friend, as we wrap up the Simply Wholehearted Foundation episodes and begin our traditional spring series, I wanted to share a few more details surrounding the wholehearted coaching process and my use of the Enneagram.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is the Enneagram the end all be all?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, as I have mentioned it time and time again, there are so many facets of who you are and your story.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, as I continue to explore typologies and frameworks and coaching systems, you know, other ones besides mine and the Enneagram, I am discovering more ways to give language and insight that not only you need for a specific situation, but I need as well.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's always good to get a new and fresh understanding of why you and I might feel stuck.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love continuing to build my coaching framework to encompass multiple systems that I've encountered.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you've heard it from me before, but my motto is the Enneagram amplifies the light, but it's Christ that brings freedom.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So today I'm going to focus a little bit more on the Enneagram while providing insights into questions that I often get, whether it's from my coaching clients or in the direct messages on Instagram or even in my email.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'm going to jump into a conversation with a friend of this podcast, CJ Music.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's one of the coaches in the Wholehearted Collective, so you've heard about her before.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she's been a co-creator of several exciting things that I'm going to share more about in our conversation and at the end of our conversation.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be some amazing resources and tools that we're excited to roll out to you here in just a few weeks.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically, I would love to learn how to talk to others about the Enneagram in a way that invites them in and makes them interested.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is an amazing question because it is focused about others and centered on how to appeal instead of repel.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I've created five tips to help you continue to invite others to the conversation of self-discovery and the awareness journey.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, tip one is going to serve you well in so many different situations, but it's to keep a posture of curiosity.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really probably need to do an episode about this because taking a posture of curiosity helps so many relationships and is a key ingredient to healthy conversation.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, ask good questions and remain open to not talking about the Enneagram because maybe not everyone wants to hear about it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's hard for some of us and easier said than done.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But when we're curious about how the others feel, we can often then gauge how much we can invite them in to the self-discovery journey.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Tip number two, don't talk in numbers all the time.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It will honestly could make you sound like a crazy cult member.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know I joke that my friends know they can always expect me to talk about Jesus in the Enneagram, but I do promise that I am not just a two-topic kind of gal.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Tip number three, be aware of Enneagrammies.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure I made up that word, but have you heard the term Christianese?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same kind of thing.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, it's insider language or using words that others are unfamiliar with.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're talking to someone who has no idea what the Enneagram is, it could feel off-putting or even overwhelming when you're talking about triads and stances and growth and stress and tri-types and all of those fancy words that are kind of for those who have studied the Enneagram or at least read an Enneagram book.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Tip number four, don't tell people what type they totally are.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using air quotes here.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I know if someone asks you how you experience them, like, hey, what type do you think I am?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Have a conversation about the possibilities.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, I always say you must try on the number.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: We are so complex and nuanced, and our stories are so unique.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so even as a coach, I have been mistaken about my first impression with others.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not only about them, but of course, you know, I must dive to myself as well.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tip number five for today: the Enneagram is a self-awareness journey.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a one-time conversation or decision.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked with so many folks over the years that when they first heard about the Enneagram, they were repulsed and put off by it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then after some thoughtful consideration and because they couldn't ignore the topic, they did come around and then they were interested to learn even more.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I could probably give more tips and guidelines for helping to make the Enneagram more approachable, but this does bring us to the central question of today's topic.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Does it matter if you know your Enneagram type?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So let's jump to today's conversation with CJ Music.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: CJ, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast again.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here, Amy.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of can't believe it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: It feels a little surreal, especially a lot in getting to know you has transpired in just under a year.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty remarkable.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am incredibly, incredibly grateful.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have a few friends here who are listening who've gotten to meet you before and who have heard your voice.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we won't give a complete reintroduction.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we'll just we'll put links um to the episodes where they can get to know you a little bit better and opportunities to even get to, you know, get your picture and see what you look like and where you live on the website.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to dive right into your story about the Enneagram typing process for you and ultimately coaching as well.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think we first met, was it 2019?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did we pinpoint that?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we had an introductory call in 2019.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I wasn't at a place to really dig into coaching.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't really remember what was going on at that time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I put it on a shelf.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then, as you know, in 2022, I reached back out and was really open and ready for the coaching process.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what was interesting is I was already certified Enneagram coach and I'd already been doing workshops, but I just felt inside me that I really needed to go through the coaching process myself.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I often think about our conversation.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: We had such a great connection in 2019.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when I say 2019, it feels like yesterday.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I go, oh no, that was four years ago.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And how much has happened in those last four years?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of water under the bridge.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot that transpired.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I do remember in that initial conversation, you talked about being curious of and to investigate the whole Enneagram coaching element certification.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: What would that look like?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot transpired between 2019 and 2022 and getting to work with you on a greater level.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: What were some of the things that you learned along the way, whether about yourself or about the Enneagram that pertained to the story?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: As far as um where I was when I called you in 2019 or 2022?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I guess maybe both, really, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because where you were in 2019 looked very different between 2020, but there was a lot that happened between that time for you and your self-discovery process and even in learning about the Enneagram.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were in a small group uh with our church, and the leaders wanted to do a study on the Enneagram, and I hadn't really heard much about it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so as we did the study, I was like, wow, this is so intriguing.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I in a prior life was a communication professor, and I loved anything to do with personality and understanding like the psychology of people.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found this.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had I had dug into Myers Briggs, which I love.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had taught a lot on the disc profile, which I also loved, but the Enneagram just gave me this new lens to kind of see myself.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I had never really been introduced to the idea of the core fears, core motivations, and and what and what that looked like for me.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then seeing how that drove a lot of my communication was so intriguing to me.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that led me to getting interested in it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband always jokes, if I'm interested in something, then I just end up getting a certification in it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, I don't, I don't know if going into the process, I really thought I would be a coach, but I knew that I could use it just in my relationships and helping other people.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got certified.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just in the journey, and and I know we're gonna talk about this, but I had, you know, put quote unquote a number on myself.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that through the process, I wasn't quite sure if that number was really my number.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what led me to reaching back out to you in 2022.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, as you went through the training process and you were creating unique material to share, because you know, that's sometimes how some of us work, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: We find something we love and then we find a way to share it with others.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You had assigned a number, you had tried it on, and then what was that moment for you that you go, oh, I don't know if I'm wearing the right type?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I and the typing process is so interesting to me.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I honestly think, and this is a this is a personal belief, so um, but I think most people mistype in the beginning.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the number that I had assigned myself in the beginning was a five.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting about this is I was in, I was in a health journey, and I had been diagnosed with two autoimmunes, so graves and then um early stage breast cancer.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in that process, the five resonated so much because I had to conserve my energy, like that's the only way I got through the day.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in that, it just kind of made sense, but still there was something in my knowing that I was like, you know, I don't know, not everything, but some kind of situation.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so fast forward, I actually tried on that number for the longest of any number that I tried on.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for I guess, really adding it up in my head.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So almost four years, I was like, okay, I'm a five.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I was teaching, I was training, I was doing workshops, but I still had a little bit of imposter syndrome, if you will, to feel like, oh, there's just still something not clicking in this process.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so um COVID, COVID hits, we move, we start a farm, we have some really close neighbors in proximity, and um it was undeniable that my neighbor was a five.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And living in close proximity to her, I started to see this like just playing out.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And not only, not only did I think she was a five, but I had her go through the process and she typed as a five.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like really living with someone that was there, I was like, okay, I'm not a five.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you know what?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm a two because I like to help people.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, and that's about the time you were knocking on my door again, going, hey, I'm not sure what type fits anymore.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, close.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I tried on the two for a while, and then I listened to one of your your podcasts.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you you came back up for me and I was like, oh man, why have I not been listening to Amy?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's going on?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I listened to one of your podcasts, and it was you were either interviewing a four or talking about a four, and I'm like, oh wait, I'm not a two, I'm a four.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so at that identity crisis point is when I reached back out and was like, oh, I don't know, I need coaching.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was really gearing up to start a new process that I was kind of behind the scenes working on.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to get clarity.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as a health coach, I always felt like health coaches need health coaches.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, I think this Enneagram coach needs an Enneagram coach.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what led to the reach out.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what is so fun is there is that moment.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So any coaches who are listening, I can wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Us coaches need coaches.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be coached in our own personal journey.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's a prerequisite to, you know, being able to start a coaching business, but gosh, man, and we'll talk about this a little bit more.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it sure does help to know for sure that your type fits to have an understanding of what the transformation process looks like.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, just to have some more clarity in that way.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: For you, when you finally settled on the type, because you had to recap, it was a five, a two, a four.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we did start talking through that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I do remember that now because you had given actually some suggestions about the spring series of 2022, the podcast, and which I loved it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I totally used your idea and aired something that fall that I mentioned and CJ, a listener, um, or a coaching client, even I think, suggested.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you had talked about you'd listened to this spring series and you were going through the Enneagram quiz that I have and that I've created and I have on my website.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So when kind of as you're vacillating through all of this, when did you think, oh, okay, now I now I think I'm wearing something, I'm wearing a type that is fitting a little bit better than these others.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great question.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So our very first coaching call, I made a joke to you, and um this will always be funny to me because I I used to always say, when I grow up, I want to be a seven or a nine.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because sevens sounds so fun, and just nines are just amazing.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what's funny is about three sessions in you had me start trying on the seven.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, I don't know.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then we were talking about ideal self, and my kind of like push the chair back, what moment was when I wrote out my truths and my specifically my lies that I repeat to myself over and over.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And as I looked at that list of lies, I had this draw joby moment, and I'm like, I'm a seven.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think it was, and maybe you can speak to this, but I think some of the language around the different numbers can get confusing sometimes.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all the language around a seven being so much fun, and and I've known so many sevens that are so much more fun than me, including you, Amy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that language was just hard for me to see myself in it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: But once I got down to the lies, I was like, there's no denying.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, here we go.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: CJ, that's such a good point.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You illustrate so many important things because the typing process is so nuanced.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's so unique.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you're going through it yourself or you're going through it with a coach, there's a myriad of ways to engage with material and look at it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that something we're going to talk about here as well, you know, not to keep teasing things, but we're going to talk about all the different approaches.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, it's so helpful to have someone at that guide by the side help you ask the right questions to get to the heart of the matter.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because to your point, there's so just a mass generalization out there of what each type is.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: No way can you encapsulate in one word the nuance of the expression, the emotivation, the desires, how people perceive and receive us, how we engage with others.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: That having one word, the enthusiasts to encapsulate all of who we are, it barely scratches the surface.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, it may not even be the surface of how people experience us.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because of subtypes, because of our story, because of our core purpose paradigms, all the different elements where we where we fit in all the instinctual triads, how those combinations lead us to present in a certain way and follow decision-making patterns and even conflict resolution.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've just given you, if you're overwhelmed, like, yeah, it's a lot.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much that goes into a person that it does sometimes take those three sessions to really get to the heart of the matter, be able to look at it from all the different perspectives.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we got to look at the stress, we got to look at the growth, we got to look at the triggers, the lies.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And some people just glance over those lies and really don't utilize that material and that understanding through the Enneagram process.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you took it to heart and you explored what is it that I have been saying?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that I've been believing?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what has even caused the self-sabotage over the years that I'm experiencing or the places that I'm getting stuck, that I just don't need to continue to be stuck in because those are lies and I don't need to believe lies.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Before I touch more on that, I want to highlight what you were saying about all the different ways of expression.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband kind of always jokes with me that I do artist math.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so if anyone out there does artist math, you know what that means.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I started looking at Way that a particular number, let's just say a seven, since we're talking about sevens, could express themselves.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in my artist math way, I lost count at 891 different ways.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, that's so cool.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's cool for um a couple of different reasons.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think the people that are, you know, this is an 80s flashback, but like, don't put baby in the corner.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of like feeling like don't box me in.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just put a number on me.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's so many different ways one number can express.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's amazing.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's definitely like um just amazing how different God has uniquely and wonderfully made us.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's still something like the Enneagram that can uncover it's like two different people watching the same movie, but you get something different out of it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your growth from that process can be so different, even if you are the same number, you know?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just I I love I love that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's my fun little artist math insert.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's perfect.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, yeah, I don't, I don't even think I've expanded on that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that the conversations do that we've captured over all of these years and then going forward, that growth for each type looks uniquely different too.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's some generalizations, but then there's also because of our story, how we unpack that in a holistic way, because that's the wholehearted way.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then a different pain point or you know, clarity is gonna come about or revelation or transformation.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the core principles are gonna stay the same, but it's gonna be unique for everybody.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear what do you what's your opinion on this first?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does it matter if you know your Enneagram type?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like in we'll say in general, doesn't matter, do you think?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So once again, my belief.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have all nine types in us.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think whatever number you're personally assigning yourself at the time, you can dig down and learn something about yourself in that journey.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, it wasn't until I honed in on where I actually was, like my actual number being a seven versus what I learned when I was quote unquote a five versus a two versus a four.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I learned, I uncovered things about myself, but nothing like transformative.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do, I honestly do think it's important for someone to ask the hard questions and get to it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you're with me on this.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: A test can be helpful to start the process, but if someone starts and stops at the test, like there hasn't been a journey in that, and um not the growth that there could be is if you keep digging and keep digging and keep digging.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Spot on.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: We keep digging, we keep exploring, finding new ways to help others explore and invite them to the journey process.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would it's worth saying that if someone takes the test and that's all you have capacity for in this stage in this chapter of life, that's fine.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or don't even bother with the test.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: As CJ mentioned, she shelved it until there was bandwidth and margin.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think if we utilize this tool and resource as its intent or as it's intended for us, it takes time and it takes hard questions to, I don't know, maybe mull through, decipher.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even speaking for us sevens, we don't like some of the self-awareness journey because it brings about negative emotion.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that too.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that, again, doesn't matter if you know your Enneagram type, it's not a matter of eternity, but can your life be richer?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: That leads me to another one because you've mentioned you are a certified coach, you've gone through that process of training.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You are teaching, you are leading workshops, you are coaching one-on-one.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: How has knowing your Enneagram type transformed the material that you offer or even the transformation process that you offer?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think it even matters if you knew your type or you didn't?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think as a coach, the accountability to know your number is is just up so much.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think a couple of things, you know, you're you talk a lot about being the guide by the side.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to be a great guide, you need to have walked the journey.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of that is digging, asking yourself the right questions.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that I think it brings to the process that some people may be more just natural at this than others is patience.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think prior to really to coaching with you and going through this process, I would have thought, okay, I need to know someone's number like day one to coach them the right way.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and now I'm like, it's it's really okay.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: If we have seven sessions, like if we figure it out in session two, four, session seven, like it's it's in God's timing and it it will be perfect when it comes about.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I also have a lot more grace for people in my life that I feel like maybe are mistyped because of the process.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, as a coach, I I feel like you really, really need to do the hard work to be that guide by the side that you talk about.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're gonna go through our four characters, right?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have those victim moments, we can't figure it out, or we've had these hard things in life, we've been believing these lies, we're experiencing triggers all the time.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's that fork in the road moment?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna just stay stuck and probably be a villain to others because our stuff is coming out sideways?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're unintentionally hurting people, or are we gonna be the hero of our own story?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna get to the bottom of it?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna work through these things?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going to try on the type?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going to step into that self-awareness process so we can better understand who we are and how we're created?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I love just inserting the caveat every once in a while.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is the ultimate hero.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is the ultimate guide, but we also get some agency over our story.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you want to play the hero and step into you?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Might need a guide in the side to help you figure it out, but that's the whole point.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, I do think if we're going to be that guide, we have to know what we're talking about and lead.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: If we're wanting to lead people in the path we're on, we have to have traversed it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have some sort of roadmap and understanding, therefore, compassion and insight to help others along the journey.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would agree with your sentiment.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: You said earlier, CJ, that I think almost everyone mistypes themselves at first.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is a very small percentage that hits the nail on the head the first time around.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: But often people who are able to, they've done a load of self-awareness work already with a counselor in her healing process.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they've read all of the material instead of just taking a number and claiming it, if you will.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like you even think about my journey.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was a communication professor and I still mistyped.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was my life study was communication, which at the root of that is psychology.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And all the best of us, the best of us.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's good.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just part of it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think it's almost it makes the it makes the whole maybe even the reward or the benefit of it even better if we have mistyped.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: At least for me, it keeps me aware or attuned to examine what is it that I'm really doing and why am I doing it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because the kind of the sneak peek that we're going to offer today is some other training and material that we've not only just learned for ourselves, but are creating to help others in this journey.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of us that comes to the party when it comes to making decisions and the conflict resolution.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I am still, even though I'm confident that I lead with the motivations and the desires of a seven, there are still other parts of me that come to play, um, whether it's a wing or the line of stress and growth.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's these other paradigms that come in and are part of why why do what I do.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it's not to be self-absorbed, but to go, okay, why am I responding that moment?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I then self-coach and correct and speak words of love and truth and remember who God is in this moment and who he says I am?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that way I can come into, you know, come under those whole-hearted rhythms in a way that is better for everybody involved.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and of course, all of you know, myself in the end for sure.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd kind of like for you to talk about a minute, the idea of the wholehearted core purpose paradigms.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: What are some elements that you have learned about yourself that gives a greater picture of the holistic story?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's really what it's about.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's understanding the whole picture, your whole journey, not just this type that you have identified from the very beginning, but all the other maybe messages and motivations and communication styles that come to play.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, you know, this was um it was a while in the making, but it was really born in the famous ice storm of 2021.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was during a pretty good conflict that was going on.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I noticed something really interesting about myself.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I was really going, it's like that moment where I could just look at myself and go, okay, wow, I'm going through these different strategies.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And while I'm considered at the time I thought, you know, that's when I thought I was a two.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I was a heart type, but I'm like, you know, like it's so interesting the language around the types, and you're either a head type or a heart type or a gut type.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, but I'm I'm really seeing myself go through these different strategies of head, heart, and gut.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I see this other person going through these strategies, and we just keep missing each other.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And not only do I see us going through these strategies, but I see that they're on this repeat, this this cycle.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so it was kind of my first moment when I really I started digging into what would it, what would it look like for people?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of started doing one-on-one quote unquote sessions with people, just like, hey, tell me about your strategies, and and I would break it down, and and then I started to see like pretty much everyone I'm talking about talking to is not just a head or a heart or a gut type.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay, so God did make us whole.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: He made us all to have head, heart, and gut.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I started really kind of switching the gears over to we're just running off this one strategy to where I really think that we have three strategies.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we cycle through our head, heart, and gut.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And specifically, I was looking at it in like conflict resolution um or decision making and problem solving.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think we do it day to day in relationships all the time.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I have loved getting into this because it's basically a teaching that had been inside my coaching anyway, the one-on-one coaching, not at a full level, that has since been developed, but just this idea of you lead with one way of decision making or responding, but all the others go, you know, all the parts of you go through this process of decision making.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now on this side of things and having an understanding what type fits you best?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I love talking about it being like a sweater or jacket, and we're trying it on, and the fitting room will look great, and then we took it home.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, not quite right.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we go back again.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: What were the three top types for you that you have seen in those uh decision-making processes ultimately, or even how you've engaged in conflict?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love I love that question.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um I lead with a seven, which when we're talking about this language, is the head type.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I quickly go to my gut type, which is a one.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's some double access to the one there, which will that would be getting into the weeds, but we could all talk about it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my my gut type is a one, and then my heart type is a four.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um I cycle, I see myself cycle through these types whenever I am conflict in a conflict, um, problem solving, making decisions, and um, and and it's been fun walking other people through this process too.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to your point, the reason why we won't get into the weeds here, but what CJ outlined, she's not talking about the stress growth pattern here.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's talking about the connection of the the again, head, heart, gut, how she goes through those.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are familiar with the type seven, the seventh line of stress is a one.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: But as CJ has done this work and gone through the process, it's not just her line of stress, but it's also her dominant leading decision maker when it comes to responding.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that that double touch kind of fronts stress, but then also that natural one idealist, you know, responsible, you know, responsible person, perfectionist, all the different names that we've we've assigned to the one, it it really feels a lot larger and very familiar in just what she does day in and day out.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then that kind of circling back to the four, obviously, it was definitely one that felt very familiar.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as a coach, if you're reverse engineering or thinking through all of this, all of these parts can touch in different places.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why for some people, it's really hard to get to the root of the core motivations and purposes.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And why I say if those begin to not resonate with your client, go deeper, explore what it is.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: They may have a sign and number that is part of their core purpose paradigm, but it doesn't paint the full picture.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just part of what shows up.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because at any point in time, when I have a client, it's like, it's not just one little thing that doesn't resonate, but it's when, you know, several check, you were kind of getting into the like, how, like, are you future focused, past focused, present focused?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is this your emotional struggle?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: If all of those things begin to, the lies aren't resonating, different elements are going, huh?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't, maybe this isn't quite right.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to back up and go, whether you're coaching yourself or being coached to just go, okay, let's pause in this moment and begin to go a little bit deeper just to make sure we really have the full story.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, CJ, this has been amazing.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I, there's so much to your story.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: We could truly talk for hours because we love talking.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, first of all, I have a feeling this won't be the last time that um your lovely voice will be here on the podcast because there's a lot more to share in the coming months.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but ultimately, as you are just maybe causing some curiosity among my friends who are listening, do you have any last piece of advice or insight based on your experience that you want to offer?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Good question, Amy.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think so I in 2022 I made the the motto that I wanted to be more curious and less certain not only about myself but about other people as well.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um that has led to a lot of growth and um a lot of a lot of healing for myself, and so I would just say just be curious, friends.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, CJ, so perfect.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for giving your all mind, body, heart to this conversation.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm have no doubt that you have helped someone um today listening, that it's sparking something for them that just is very meaningful.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Amy.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, isn't CJ's story so fascinating?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I loved working with her as her guide by the side, and I've had the best time creating new and life-changing resources for you and this wholehearted community.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like you to check out the show notes because CJ is going to be hosting some online training and teaching resources available soon.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can jump on the wait list, or maybe by the time you listen to this, the registration will be live.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you get my weekly emails and you're part of the wholehearted community, you're going to be one of the first to get the invitation to check this out.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you found this episode helpful as you continue to explore what is the whole hearted journey and even how to use the Enneagram typology system in your life and in your relationships.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, next week our spring series kicks off with what you need to know about each type, and the Enneagram 8 gets to begin the party.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.