Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #71: Gill1918 Project Presents Vince Anderson “How to Coach Hurdles Part 1” at the Illinois Top Times Speed Lab

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#71: Gill1918 Project Presents Vince Anderson “How to Coach Hurdles Part 1” at the Illinois Top Times Speed Lab · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Hey Yank, pumped for this. Here we go.
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Back in August, Randy Anderson of the Illinois Top Time Speed
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Lad hosted A1 day track clinic featuring two of my favorite
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people in the entire world, Boushek Snyder and Vince
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Anderson. He was gracious enough to allow
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us to record those presentations for right here on the Gil 1918
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Project. So for the next six weeks, every
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Wednesday and Thursday, Part 1 and Part 2, we're going to give
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you all those presentations from Boushek Snyder talking about
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hamstrings to Vince Anderson talking about Hurdle.
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Now, these were video in person type of presentation.
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So you're going to miss a little bit of not seeing the actual
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presentation. However, tons of value here with
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Boo and Vince every single week for six weeks in a row,
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Wednesday and Thursday, Part 1, Part 2, Vince Anderson, Booshex
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Nader, make sure you're listening, make sure you're
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sharing this. And again, shout out to coaches
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like Randy Anderson who is providing value and coaching
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education to coaches around the country.
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Thanks again, Randy, we appreciate you.
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Enjoy today's episode. Welcome to the Gill 1918
1:01
Project, a podcast series by coaches for coaches powered by
1:04
Gill Athletics. Think of this as the Ted Talks
1:07
of track and field coaching. Short, insightful, and packed
1:09
with valuable strategies to help you grow as a coach.
1:12
We'll bring in the once a year track clinic straight to your
1:15
ears daily. Interested in creating your own
1:17
episode? Everyone's welcome to
1:19
participate. Check out the show notes below
1:21
For more information. Now let's get into today's
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topic. So this is talk about developing
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hurdlers at every level, OK. And that especially, I think
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with a special shout out, a special level of interest to
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middle school and high school hurdlers who I think are often
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mistrained in a structural way. So high school hurdlers need US.
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7th and 8th grade hurdlers need us even more than high school
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hurdlers do. So answer the call.
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You know, I'm big on if you coach sprints, you coach the
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hurdles. If you coach the hurdles, you
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coach sprints. You know, there is no such thing
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as a hurdles coach. There is no such thing as a
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sprints coach. You coach the sprints and you
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coach the hurdles. You do both.
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It's part of your repertoire. All right, this is a really
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good, I think this is a really good tool, a really good chart,
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and I want to see if I could point something out.
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It was actually fairly painful to do so.
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The far column on the left is men and boys and the the black
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column on the far left is men and boys.
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The red column is women and girls.
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OK, so if you look at look at men under 18 slash US high
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school JV, that's what HSJV is. So internationally, if you're
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under 18 and you go to the world under 18 championships, the
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hurdles are 36 inches, they're not 39 inches, OK, which should
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tell you something. It's 13 meters 72 to the first
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hurdle, 9 meters 14 between hurdles number of flights ten
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and five to six. It it for the 60 meter holes.
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Now go to women here, senior women.
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OK, 33 inches, 13 meters to the first hurdle. 8.5 meters is the
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distance between the hurdles. 10 hurdles with a run of 13 meters
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for a total distance of 100. But here's what you find.
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If I look at the next height up under 18 men, there's a gap
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between 33 internals and 36 internals.
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There's a awesome huge gap between 13 meter spacing and
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1372. That's almost 3/4 of a meter.
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There's a huge gap between 8 1/2 meter spacing and 9 meters 14,
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so our hurdles should get getting shredded by these gaps.
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So I don't care what anybody says, I don't care about any of
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these marks. It's evident if you're a elite
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9th grade boy or a normal a normal JV high school person,
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you should be hurdling at 33 to 36 inches.
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This first hurdle should be 1335.
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The distance between the hurdle should be 8 meters 75 and the
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number of flights obviously would be 10 for 100 meters and
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5:00 to 6:00. So it's clear just and it was
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pretty painful putting this together all of the
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international distances based on age and very the United States
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is really bad at this, really bad.
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Other countries like Scotland, England, much better.
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They go all the way down to you 13 girls.
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But the point is you can see there are no marks anywhere on
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the track even closely approximating what a large
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portion of our population needs to be training at.
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So we had to make an so the underlined categories, US 9th
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graders, elite, US high school JV, that line.
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And then there's another huge gap opens up down below in the
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women's realm between US 8th grade boys, US 9th grade elite
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women, where the spacing is 13 meters to the first hurdle, 8
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1/2 meters, etcetera. But when you go to under 13
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girls, it's 12m approach, 8 meters on the spacing.
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So it's an enormous gap up to 8th grade boys, 8th grade elite
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girls. So you have another underlying
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row. You have to intervene there with
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an intermediate spacing to cover that gap because the marks on
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the track that exist do not serve the population
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appropriately. So now if you do that and add
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the 2 underscored rows, you have a fairly tight hurdle matrix.
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It doesn't have any enormous developmental gaps.
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And I don't care what US high school regulation says or US
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junior high school regulation, if you meet these categories,
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you should be following these marks developmentally or even
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less so if I'm an under. If I'm AUS 7th grade female, I'm
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hurdling it 24 to 27 inches, 11.5 meters to the first hurdle.
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The hurdles are 7.5 meters apart and the furthest they should be
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going to 60 meters. No 7th grade girl or under 13
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girl or under 13 boy needs to be hurdling flights of 10.
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They're not developed for that yet.
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Get them good at 5:00 to 6:00 and hit their spacings
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accordingly and the developmental path will be way
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smoother. Failure to ignore these
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absolutely evident gaps in spacing are responsible for the
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bad hurdle coaching that exists all too often in our country.
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Any questions about that? Do you see how when we spotted
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the huge gaps, we just kind of filled in an intermediate
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spacing? It's kind of covered that a
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little. So this is hurdle.
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This is exactly the same exercise.
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Instead of from frontal view, it's from side view.
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OK, So what are the things we noticed?
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This, by the way, is an elite female senior hurdler, 1285 PB
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World Junior Championships participant.
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It's in the grass, She's barefooted.
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The hurdles are plastic, they're low those that's an 18 inch
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hurdle and it's just kind of fun and rhythmic and playful.
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This is how you teach people to hurdle.
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You do not put hurdles out at full race height and at full
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race spacing and create the death hurdling that so often
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passes for hurdle training. OK, so on recovery days, on
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regeneration days, we often train even our elite hurdlers
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with some activity like this hurdling.
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Above all, like I said earlier with the 400 training should
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look like the performance. Hurdling should look good.
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It should look like the performance.
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If it doesn't look good, you know you're training wrong and
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making the wrong ask. So hurling is athletic, it's
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fast, it's playful, it's rhythmic, it's coordinated, it's
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explosive, it's bouncy and it's aggressive.
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All those things and you can see it.
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That's a good college male, a junior, and in college they run
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42 inch hurdles, but he's training here at 39 inch hurdles
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and the hurdles are set closer together, 9.14 meters apart.
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They're in about 30 centimeters. So the application of high
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intensity runs over lowered hurdles set closer together,
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What we call discounted hurdling is an absolute necessity.
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It's not an option, it's not a good idea.
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It is essential to understanding and making good judgments about
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good hurdle training and becoming a great hurdle coach.
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Hurling is also kind of cool and that you can train boys and
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girls at the same time. And if you have a run out lane
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between them, between the boys set of hurdles and the girls set
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of hurdles and the person to touchdown First off of a hurdle
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wins. So even though the women's
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hurdles are spaced shorter than the men's, if she touches down
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1st at the 4th hurdle, she wins and it's a fair fight.
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So it's kind of a, you know, you're training your boys and
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girls hurdler at the same time. You you can kind of set things
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up on competitive days and they can kind of race against each
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other. So this is the world record
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holder, 12.80 London Olympic champion.
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So the best way to become a good hurdle coach is to look at elite
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hurdlers. Look at what they do, watch and
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watch and watch and watch. See their movement, understand
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what they're doing and try to emulate.
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And if it doesn't look like that with your athlete, then the
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hurdles are too high and they're set too far apart.
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They keep lowering the hurdle and bringing them closer
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together until they look like they're hurdling right.
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If you think of the example of Natasha, that first hurdler we
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saw, yes, the hurdles were short and they were low and they were
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in the grass. She would barefoot it and she
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was going 5 steps instead of three.
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But it looked like hurdling. It didn't look like something
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else. Those are the kind of things
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that you manipulate as a hurdles coach now when you're choosing
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hurdlers, OK, hurling is not a dumping ground for Sprint
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reject. Oh, Joe can't Sprint, so we're
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going to make him a hurdler. You know, that's not correct.
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That's that's a wrong application.
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Hurling is for athletes. You recruit for your 4 by 1 and
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4 by 4 relays. That's the talent pool.
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So hurdlers are focused, aggressive, fast and agile,
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which equivalent word is coordinated.
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Great athletes move well. OK, A very common error is to
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think being tall is a prerequisite for hurling.
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It absolutely is not. Being tall has nothing to do
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with being a hurdles prototype. Hurling is for athletic people.
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It is not for all people. OK, so if an athlete is focused,
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aggressive, fast and agile and they happen to be tall, then
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they might be a good hurdler. People that you want hurling are
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sprinters who run the four by one, relays, cornerbacks, wide
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receivers, athletic point guards who can run the floor, soccer
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forwards and midfielders who are very athletic and accelerate
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well. You're looking for jocks, you're
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looking for great athletes to run the hurdle.
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Being a tall guy with nothing who's not aggressive, he's not
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fast, he's not coordinated, he's not focused.
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That's a disaster, and you're preparing an athlete in an event
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that is not, it's not a sound public.
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Now I have a dream. I have an idea.
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I think that athletes are so mistrained in the hurdles in
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junior high and in high school that it has an eviscerating
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effect on hurdles development in this country.
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And by the by the way, we're by far the best hurdling country in
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the world. However, I think that if middle
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school and junior high was trained better because they're
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not being they're, they're getting to junior high and
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middle school and they're regressing, they're not
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progressing. High school and particularly
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particularly JV are regressing, they're not progressing.
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If the developmental, if the development of athletes at these
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younger categories were handled better, I believe that this
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country would produce a sub 13 male hurdler and a sub thirteen
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female hurdler every year. In fact, I'll go, I think the
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state of Texas would produce a sub 13 boy and a sub 13 like so
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the reason that we're not and that's something that's never
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been done before. He's a 13 second male and a 13
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second female produced in this a sub 13 male and a sub thirteen
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female in the same year like that's never been done before.
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So I think that if we just handled the development better
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that would happen every year. So I think I, so it's important
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to note we're already the best hurdle country in the world, but
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our depth and our high quality depth is being eviscerated by
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coaching miscues or stating another way, our great hurling
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depth in this country is in spite of the development system,
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not because of the development system.
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If we had the development system, better and better
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judgments were being made at the grassroots level would be
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significantly better than we are.
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Important hurdle training concept.
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Hurdle and Sprint more drill less.
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Drills are bridges to performance movement.
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Drills without race application wastes time.
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Hurdle and Sprint do not drill aimlessly.
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A very common very see it everywhere all the time.
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I go to high school JV meets, I go to middle school needs, I go
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to AAU meeting. I mean, I do it all and I'll
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literally see someone drilling for an hour before their race
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and they may not even take a hurdle approach in the warm up
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area, but they'll drill for an hour.
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That makes no sense. We, you know, we'll drill for 5
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minutes and hurdle for an hour if we have to remediate or pull
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back or go off to the side and. Remediate quickly with a with
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another drill, we'll do it. But we don't, we don't drill,
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drill, drill, drill, drill. You know, we're asked all the
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time, you know, what drills can I do that make my that will make
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my hurdler run faster? The answer is none.
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What'll make your hurdler run faster is running fast over
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hurdles in practice, at lowered heights and reduced distances.
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Drills is part of teaching the movements of some of the fine
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motor movements of hurdling, but it does not replace hurdling
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itself. So make sure that you're
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hurdling and sprinting more and drilling with more specific
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intent in shorter, smaller blocks of time.
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Show them a movement, kind of get it over a drill, and then
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really quickly move it to the hurdles and see if they can
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apply that movement concept at a higher rate of speed.
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Speed development is essential for herders, and even more so on
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the women's side than it is on the men that, make no mistake
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about it, that's the men's hurdlers are very, very fast
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too. And one of the ways you'd get
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faster in the hurdles is by teaching them how to Sprint
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faster. Sprint training makes up 50 to
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70% of a well written hurdle training program.
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So in other words, they're not hurdling every day, they're
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hurdling 30 to 50% of the time. The rest of the time they're
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being trained like sprinters. So important hurdle training
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concepts, reduce hurdle height mostly reduce hurdle spacing.
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Always do contrast training, which is you can, you know,
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instead of doing 6 times 4 hurdle starts, you could do
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something like one start over 4 hurdles solo, one start over 4
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hurdles with a Group, One start over 4 hurdles by yourself, one
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with the group. So you're contrasting solo
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group, solo group or 1 by 4 hurdle start with the hurdle at
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3030 inches and 7 1/2 meters apart.
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One start over 30 inches and 775 meters apart.
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You know, one distance and a slightly farther distance, or
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one Sprint start over 31 Sprint start over 4 hurdles, 1 Sprint
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start over 31 Sprint start over 4 hurdles.
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You can. You're only limited what you
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contrast by your imagination. We contrast all sorts of things,
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but it can really enhance learning and stimulate learning
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by contrasting things. Coaching is a visual discipline.
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Learn to see the event and hurdles is a sub whether we like
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it or not. Hurdles is a subset of
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sprinting, not vice versa. Sprinting is not a subset of
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hurdling, so train rhythm and timing most importantly.
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More importantly than anything, what a lot of people say, well,
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how am I going to make it in a race, you know, if I can't clear
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the hurdle? That's the wrong question.
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If you cannot run fast over low hurdles, sit close together,
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there's no possibility you'll run fast over regulation
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hurdles. And coaching is avoiding the
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occasion of 0 probability. So don't sweat the race height.
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Don't sweat the hurdle height in the race and the spacing in the
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race. You have to discount the hurdles
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and the spacing and get them running with really fast,
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aggressive rhythms and not train in fear and trepidation.
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There's a lot of hurdling practice that passes as the
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installation of fear and trepidation, and that's not good
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for development. That's good for retarding
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development, so the hurdle height and the hurdle space can
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increase when rhythm and timing are stable.
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And again, you're looking at the rest.
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What does hurling look like? What looks good?
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All right, all great hurdlers learn to hurdle on small hurdles
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set close together. Great hurdlers, including world
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record holders, continue to train over smaller hurdles, sit
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closer together. Now, what works for great
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hurlers work for for beginning hurdlers.
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OK, low hurdles and reduce spacing are effective for elite
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hurdlers. So that's so that strategy works
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for developmental hurdles too. So you're training for the
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future, not just the present. And what does that mean?
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OK, that means if I have a hurdler who takes 9 steps to the
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first hurdle and four steps in between the hurdles, I am
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simultaneously training them to run 8 steps, an 8 step approach
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to the first hurdle and three steps in between.
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Now to do that I have to make the distances less but I have to
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do it none the less. So any questions so far?
26:45
All right, so now here's a note. OK, so this this is another
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thing that is for sure, even in not very good athletes.
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Well, let me rephrase. And this this is speaking to the
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whole group. And this is how, and I know a
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lot of this goes on because I see it at junior high school
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meets. In high school, the ideal elite
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hurdlers are taking 8 steps to the first hurdle in most cases
27:20
and three steps in between each hurdle, OK?
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There are a few elite men that take 7 steps to the first hurdle
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and then three steps in between the hurdles, OK.
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So that's not so much our concern at the developmental
27:40
level. At a developmental level, we're
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just trying to get people from taking nine steps to taking 8
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and from taking four steps between the hurdle to three.
27:52
That's our concern right in the most common description of the
27:57
job. So what you see a lot of times,
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and it's fascinating, is many, many coaches have the hurdles
28:07
set on the race height and race spacing in practice.
28:20
So even developmental athletes who don't have maybe a lot of
28:29
ability, nearly everyone can get to the first hurdle in nine.
28:34
And I promise you they're taking off too close to the hurdle.
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And when they're taking 4, even a less than average athlete,
28:49
when they take 4 steps in between the hurdles, they're
28:52
definitely taking off too close to the hurdle.
28:56
So when you have someone 9 stepping and four stepping, in
29:01
the same sense that you have to reduce the hurdle distances to
29:08
get there an 8, when you have a nine step, four step person, you
29:14
have to increase the spacing on the track because they're
29:20
already taking off too close to hurdle one and turtle 2 and
29:23
hurdle three. You have to.
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So instead of the approach for a female taking nine steps, you
29:30
don't put the hurdle at 13 meter, the first hurdle at 13
29:34
meters, you put in it like 1330. And instead of going 8 1/2
29:41
meters between the hurdles, you go 875.
29:45
You space it out because then as, as they get, so they're,
29:51
they're growing the distance that they're covering with their
29:54
nine step, four step early and you're growing the distance that
29:59
they it takes to get to their eighth step.
30:02
And those will eventually crawl will be ready to go 8 steps and
30:06
three steps. So you can't just accept what's
30:09
happening in the future. Excuse me, You can't just accept
30:12
what's happening in the present. You have to, you have to grow
30:17
that where they cover more and more and more ground with eight
30:21
steps and three steps, but with the nine step and four step that
30:26
has to also grow. So they're increasing their
30:30
their speed and power and nobody does that.
30:34
That keeps the marks where they are.
30:36
So where you have to reduce her length to increase her rhythm.
30:41
When you have someone taking nine and four, you have to
30:43
increase the spacing and get them further away from the bury
30:48
because all dysfunction in the hurdles is the result of taking
30:52
off too close to the hurdle, if that makes sense.
31:00
OK, so teaching for the future means teaching sprinting and
31:06
hurdling, not teaching survival. So learn to hurdle first that we
31:15
saw Natasha doing, then introduce real hurdles.
31:19
That's a beautiful developmental idea.
31:23
Boys should be using 21 inch, 24 inch, 27 inch, 30 inch hurdles
31:31
liberally as you're teaching them for the future.
31:38
Girls should be using plastic hurdles of 18 inches, 21 inches,
31:44
24 inches and 27 inches liberally.
31:52
So we're not starting, you know, teaching people hurdle how to
31:55
hurdle over hurdles. We're using those little baby
31:59
hurdles. Reduce spacing liberally as a
32:02
rule. Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here.
32:05
Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Guild 1918
32:09
Project series. It's really my mission, my
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passion to bring you massive amounts of value and I hope this
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one hit the mark. The Guilt 1918 Project is really
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dependent on you if for you to build your own episode, to hear
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and teach other coaches out there.
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So please get a hold of me, e-mail, text message, Twitter,
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Hope you enjoy today, they will see you tomorrow.