Latest / Ridiculous History / The Grim Christmas Folklore of Johnny Ace, with Jake Brennan

Transcript

The Grim Christmas Folklore of Johnny Ace, with Jake Brennan · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much for joining us. Uh we've got none other than
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the Man, the myth, the legend, our super producer, mister
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Max Masshole Williams joining us.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Are you a mass guy, You're a You're he's a Michigan,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: You're as I'm a Michigan Michigan.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's a mister Noel Brown over there on
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the ones and twos.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not from anywhere. I don't. I don't claim any
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: any a young German boy, that's true. I am a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: no I was once a young German German boy.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I am legally required to disclose that I am called
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Ben Bollen in this art on world. And uh No.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: We had a fascinating conversation, uh, very many years ago
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: when we were just absolutely fanboying about this crazy guy
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: who is really fascinating author, a podcaster, I would say,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a thought leader, and one of the nicest people I've
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: ever met from Massachusetts.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about Johnny as yet You're not. You're
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: talking about Jake Brannan.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: No other dead You guys are two kind.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Well you may have heard Jake unleash earlier when we
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: were talking, and that's that's breaking the fourth wall, which
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: was the third one.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's the fourth wall, the fourth wall if you're talking
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to the audience, that's right. Jake Brittan is here with
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: us right now, coming to us live and direct. Jake,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: how you doing.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I'm fantastic. I'm stoked to be talking to you guys,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Excited to be talking ridiculous music history. Fan of your show,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: and anytime I can talk about music with some informed lads,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I'm happy. So we're right in my sweet spot this actor.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: We're nothing if not informed lads. And as we talked
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: about off Mike Ben is not only the king of doors,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: he is also the king of intros and he really
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: sets you up beautifully. Our buddy, Jake is an incredible
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: podcaster with the Disgrace Lam podcast and various music documentary
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: podcasts that sort of have a take a true crime
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: fusion with music history approach, and it's an incredible video
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: content that you may have seen go viral on the interwebs.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: And again also an author, so we're super stood to
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: have you with us, Jake, indeed, to talk about some
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: ridiculous music history. This was a little dark. It's one
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: that maybe would also feel right at home on our
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: sister podcast, Stuff they don't want you to know, because
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: we're talking about a bit of a history mystery involving
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: a very influential musician by the name of Johnny As
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I've said multiple times, Johnny.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Ace one of a kind, and I love this. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: love the conversation because it fits in your wheelhouse. Guys,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like this story. Ninety percent of people
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: think it's one thing, but it's actually something else. So
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: we're in that historical mythbusting phase, which is a very
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: cool spot to be.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Now, Jake, you're a legendary. I would call you a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: journalist at this point as well as a storyteller. So
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: can you introduce us for anyone who is unfamiliar to
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: this character?
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Johnny sure, Johnny Ace a Memphis musician sort of in
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: the years prior to Elvis breaking out as a first
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: a regional star in the South and then as a
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: global superstar. So Johnny Ace, look at it this way,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: like Elvis is sixteen years old and he's he's lurking
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: around Memphis these clubs. He's kind of like looking into windows.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: It's to the black clubs to watch Ike Turner and
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: dealing all their moves. Yeah, exactly. And BB King and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: and Johnny Ace is one of these guys. Johnny Ace
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: was at first the piano player in BB King's BB
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: King's band called the Beal Streeters before BB King became huge.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: And of course, if you saw the Elvis movie that
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: they get into the relationship between Elvis and BB King.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But Johnny Ace was like, you know, there's there's cool musicians,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: or there's cool people, and then there's just like cool.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: There's a level of cool that's like extraterrestrial, Like even
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: the Tom Waits, Yeah, you nailed it. Like like how
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: how David Bowie was obsessed with iggy Pop's cool? Like
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: that's that's what Johnny Ace was. He was just this
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: like young dude in Memphis who is just the coolest
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: fucking guy. And Elvis and many others loved him. And
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: after you know, Johnny Ace is in Phoebe King's band.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: He starts a solo career after that, and he starts
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: to have some some hits on the R and B
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: charts under his own name Johnny.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Ace, And there's a certain kind of cool that you
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: describe him that also comes along with a little crazy. Yes,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, I mean I think I'm not mistaken.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: We've observed it in folks. Do you like you mentioned
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: with Iggy Pop? Bowie certainly had his crazy days that
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: he got pasted, you know, God rest his soul. But
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: where he was just sustaining on milk and red peppers
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: and cocaine while watching like Nazi propaganda videos and his
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: murder mansion.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: You get in situations is it crazy to be cool
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: or is it cool to be crazy? That seems like
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a thesis statement. We're gonna be following along with right, Yeah, So, Jake,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: what first drew you to the story of this up
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and coming cool crazy musician? Uh, Johnny Ace the name
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to go along with it too, that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Is Christian name. I doubt it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Johnny Aitz excuse me? All right, So give
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: us the providence the origin story, if you may.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: I first, I first heard the myth, which is what
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: most people hear. And there's a great book by I believe,
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Grail Marcus, and it has all sort of these these
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: short littles. An anthology book much like my own, but it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: it's way better. It's all about these sort of unknown
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: hell raisers from the early rock and roll in R
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and B days, and.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: There's and I have to be honest, I was not
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: aware of Johnny Ace at all before you texted us
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: about this topic. And I do know the Elvis song,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: but kind of only in passing. So I really am
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: excited to dig into more of this sisty. But you
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: mentioned the kind of providence or the legend, the myth
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: behind this sort of inciting events.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Talk about this today.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just gonna Jake, I'm going to interrupt you
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to brag about you. Uh, Nolan, I'm just going to
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: pile on.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Jake has a book out pretty recently called Disgraceland Musicians
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Getting Away with Murder and Behaving very Badly. I did
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: read it. I do think it's beat me here, Max.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's amazing. Wow, very well, Thank you so much.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate that. You know, there's a through line
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: in that book thematically about grief, which is a big
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: part of the Grand Parsons chapter in that book, and
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the and the two Elvis chapters, and Elvis was I
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: believe perpetually. Others believe this as well, sort of perpetually
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: grieving this this loss like a phantom limb, which was
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: the death of his of his twin brother who died
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: at childbirth, and a lot of people think, you know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: if they're gonna analyze some armchair psychologists, that that's sort
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: of why he was so excessive. He was trying to
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: compensate for this thing. And it plays into this story
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: somewhat as well. You know, it's like, you guys know
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: what it's like because you're so you're you're so music,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: you're so music and culture conscious. You know, like you
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: come up in a in a scene and you have
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about from Elvis' perspective, and they're sort of
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: like older cool guys in your local local scene whatever
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: it is, if it's music or if it's acting or
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: if it's podcasting, and you're kind of you just you
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: just I mean, honestly, no, it was a lot like
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: the whole like stuff you should know, crew at iHeart,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: when I first got into podcasting, I was like, I
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: want these guys to think I'm cool. O, say, you know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: prove me.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Let me put my hands by the window. You know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: while you guys are playing. Yeah, I know, yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Well, and also, I mean, you know, it's people you
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: look up to, it's people that you want to hear.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: It's the only way you get those stories, and it's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the only real way to learn about a world like that,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: whether it be podcasting or blues music, and those things
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: are definitely equivalent. I and you can fight me on that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I would die on that hill. They are the same, yes,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: but no, these people are hugely important to the oral
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: tradition and to kind of carrying on a legacy and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: a through line through a genre of music or a scene,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: much like you're talking about there in Memphis, which is
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a storied music scene right right right.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: And so that's who Johnny Ace was to Elvis Presley.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: He was the cool kid on the block, you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: and kind of obscure. And he remained that way, you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: even even in his passing while Elvis was still alive.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And you know, the inciting incident. The myth, if you will,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: is this is this story, and I'm going to get
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: back to answering your question, Ben, the story that that
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Johnny Ace, this this great R and B singer who
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: died at the age of twenty five years old tragically
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: from playing Russian Roulette. So I kind of heard that
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: in passing as a young man. And then when i
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: started the Disgrace Lad podcast and I'm looking for these
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: sort of music and true crime stories that I can tell,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: this pops up on the radar and I start researching it,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, mother didn't die from Russian Roulette.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Man, that's not at all what I mean.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: It kind of is part of the story, but that's
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: not what happened. It's a myth though, right, it is
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: a myth, And this is my favorite. These are my
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: favorite types of stories when you can really when you
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: can do a podcast episode if there is a couple
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: other big ones that are just like this, Like Mama
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: cass Elliott from The Mamas and Papa's did not die.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: She did not die from choking on a ham sandwich.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: You know. Michael Hutchins from In Excess did not die
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: from auto eerotic asphyxiation.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: And it was not Robert Johnson but Bobby Johnson.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Tommy Johnson Johnson. I'm actually, I'm actually my head is
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: fully in the Robert Johnson thing right now because I'm
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: working on a documentary about how this is kind of
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: the take on my Robert Johnson episode that Robert Johnson
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: did not sell his soul to the devil. Robert Johnson
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: was the devil. Hell yeah, if you actually support if
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: you get into how Robert Johnson behaved and what he
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: did and what he said about God, and how he
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: spoke about real faithful people and people who had faith
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: around his friend, his friends stopped hanging around with him
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: because they were so like this guy's and then the
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: whole trope of selling your soul to the devil. I mean,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: that's kind of a grail. Marcus makes the point that
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: that's kind of a racist explanation of being.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: How you got so good?
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Exactly, White journals Exactly, they couldn't. They couldn't explain his talent,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: which the guy sounds like he's playing guitar with three hands.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he just what's the old joke? How do
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I get to Broadway? Says a tourist in New York?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Uh local says, uh, I think practice.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Carnegie Hall, but Broadway works as well. That both of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: those you got to practice.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you a quick, quick, uh a myth
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: busting story about that? That how do you get to
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Carnegie Hall for practice? So I've actually played Carnegie Hall
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: and I didn't practice at all. A friend of mine
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: was was part of Patti Smith's birthday party as a performer,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: my friend Adam from local Connie in in about four
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: or five years ago at Carnegie Hall. And you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Patty gets out there, she's doing Gloria, and I'm side
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: stage with all these musicians and all these musicians, Josh
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Ritter and David Johanson. They just start walking out on
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: stage to sing backups, and I'm like, I just kind
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: of got caught up with them all. There's a picture
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: of me and Rolling Stone behind Patty Smith and Carnie.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. So one thing we love about a Chlorus
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: is everyone can sing along.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Yes hopefully yes.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And again, Tom Waits, if you're listening, you are part
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of Americana and we'd love for you to hang out
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: with Jake on his show. Jake, the Boys and I
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: were very close to getting Tom Waits to do a
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: show with us. Story he only accepts payments in nineteen
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: fifty seven used Chevy car parts.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: It's true. And also, you know Pirate do balloon.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I literally can't tell if you're sing with me or.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Not, okay, and I usually can't. And that's just the
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: way of the world.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Like I don't believe that from Tom Waits, like I
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: would believe.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: A million pent man. I love that. What a good
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: loafed trick he used to do. And he would just
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: have like, what is it like chalk dust like on
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: the stage and he's just stomping in the chalk dust
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and it just looks like he's just kicking up dustbou
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: It's the coolest thing. What a cool guy. I'd love
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: to go back really quickly to your point about the
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: racist trope or the inherent racist trope of like selling
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: your soul of the devil, because nobody accused Django Reinhart
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: of selling his soul to the devil, and that guy
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: played guitar with two fingers. Yeah, so I'm just.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: The other ring, Yeah yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Or Tony Iomi from Black Sabbath, who literally doesn't have
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: fingertips and somehow somehow figured out how to create an
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: entire genre called heavy metal. No one, no one Tim
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: is selling a soul to the devil either. Yeah, I
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, I don't think it's one of
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: these things that was like purposefully racist or or whatever.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: It's just like it just it just happened. And it's
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: interesting when you when you when you actually unpack it
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: and that that trope, you know, it goes back like
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: me and the Devil Walking or whatever the lyric is
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: from Robert Johnson, it actually goes back to the sort
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: of blackface minstrel uh lyrics that you know, back then
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: those songs were considered pop music, so Robert Johnson.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Would play those.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: So the reality is he got a lot of that
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: devil imagery in his lyrics from white dudes in blackface
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: who were who were co opting black music from the
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: slave era, you know what I'm saying.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So it's so weird for him to be reving to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: reverse cover the songs that were co opting this imagined
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: version of his like legacy or his you know, his people.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: That's really wild.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Mirrors game of telephone. As we continue, uh, Jake nol,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I believe we need to explain just briefly what we
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: mean by Russian roulette, which is itself also mythologized.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, sure, and it's also one of those things where yeah,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it's exactly there's a lot of a lot of Russian.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: There's a whole movie about it where there's like a
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Russian Roulette club. I forget what it's called, but it's
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: like a Eastern European art film and it's about this
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: like fight club where people like play Russian roulette for whatever,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: as high a stakes as you could possibly have. So, yes,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: do tell Jake, give us a little bit about Russian rule.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Well, if you would both refer to the thirty two
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: snubnose I sent to both of you, right, yeah, load
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: both of those up the utility gun. Yeah, there you go.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, just there's one bullet in the in
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: one bullet in the in the what do you call
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: it the chamber there or the barrel, I don't even know. Uh,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: just you know, make that go whirly whirl and then
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: and then put it put it to her, put it
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: to your yet there you go, There you go. Now
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: we don't know where the bullet is.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: There's to do the hard click and close it. Now
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that's the most badass movies. He got it, Hey guy, Okay,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: there you go.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: So now there's six options, there's six places that bullet
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: might be. It's only going to be in one, you
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: have a one in six chance of shooting yourself in
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the head if you put that gun that thirty two
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: stubs two year temple and pull the trigger. Now, I'm
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: you know, I know, we're not actually going to reenact
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: that scene from Deer Hunter right here, as much as
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I kind of want to. Uh, but this is what
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Johnny Ace would do for fun. In addition to drinking
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: courts of vodka. Uh. This was his sort of like
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: parlor trick that he would whip out backstage to sort
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: of entertain his friends.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: He was quite quite a fan of just waving his
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: peace around in general. Right when I say his peace,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I mean his his pistol. Oh, we know we meant no.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So okay. So this is different from Australian roulette, which,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: as we know, is the thing where you aim the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: gun at your lower parts. Yeah, I'm doing geography jokes.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: They're not all gonna land. I thought that was real too.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: So one out of six and this guy John Marshall
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Alexander right, full dame.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: For Johnny Ace. Yeah, if you say so, but I
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: have it somewhere. But yeah, that makes sense.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Johnny Ace, we're going by this guy, this
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: guy would literally jake backstage. He would put a gun
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to his head. Yeah yeah, do the spin and the click.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: So this is a this is a Christmas story because
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: this this.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Oh we forgot to mention. This is our this is
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: our holiday.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: This this is our holiday episode.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you Starbucks, Merry Christmas. So this happens on Christmas
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Day nineteen fifty four. He's backstage. Johnny Ace's backstage with
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: his labelmate and friend, Big Mama Thornton, who had the
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: first hit with the Lieber and Stoller tune Hound Dog,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: which Elvis made a massive hit with later on. So
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: it's Johnny Ace, Big Mama Thornton backstage and Johnny Ace's
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: girlfriend at the time, Olivia, and BB King is out
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: on stage. This is in Houston. He's playing with It's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: kind of like a big review show and I think
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Johnny Otis is kind of.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Like the MC.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: So there's a whole thing going on out there. Johnny
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: as has already played I believe, and he's back there
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: and he's getting shit faced as he was wont to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: do with a court of vodka and he's you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: entertaining quote unquote Olivia, his girl, and Big Mama Thornton
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: by playing Russian or trying to play Russian roulette. Typically
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: when you this is the thing, This is where the
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: myth comes into play. When you play Russian roulette. It's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: three or four guys sitting around a table like we
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: are a virtual table, but a real table, and and
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: you spin the barrel and you click, and if you survive,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: you pass the gun to somebody else. And people are
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: betting on this, and you're betting on this as well,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: and you just pass the gun around until someone actually
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: kills himself. And this was that's Russian roulette.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you spin it between the turn.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: You spin it between the turns, I believe.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Can I just say the film that I was talking about,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I just looked at it and it's called thirteen and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. And in this article that mentions thirteen
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: from Russia Beyond, they have some pretty cool stats. So
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: they break it down. The first attempt you got a
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: sixteen point six percent chance, the second twenty percent chance,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the third twenty five percent, the fourth thirty three point three,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and the fifth fifty percent. The sixth shot, of course,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: is always fatal.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, Well you spin it between the turns.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Because you want to keep the casino going.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: But it's not okay, you don't have to say. I
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: guess there's a version of it too where maybe you
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: don't spin it, but like you, you know, wherever it starts,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: you've got that many you know you're gonna potentially land
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: on the bullet eventually. It could be two away, it
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: could be three away, it could be four away. So
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: maybe you don't if you don't spin it, those are
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the Those are the odds.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I like your reference to deer Hunter Jake, which is fundamental.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It's fundamentally important to this because it already tells us
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: our protagonist here, Johnny Ace is meeting with you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: secular popular success, but he's maybe not in the best
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: place mentally if he's drinking a court of vodka and
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: then say.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Playing with guns.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, say, hey, you know what we should do while
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I'm drunk. We should try to shoot each other in
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the head.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I couldn't get a lot of info on Johnny Ace's
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: state of mind. Is not a lot written about him,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: but what I did uncover is that and this goes
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: to sort of the conspiracy around this. Okay, so there's
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the myth and there's the conspiracy, and I'm gonna I'm gonna,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna comment on your comment, Ben by setting these
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: two ups. So the myth is, of course he died
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: playing Russian Roulette, which he did not. He eventually does
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: in front of Big Mama Thornton and Johnny Ace shoot
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: himself and dies backstage, right. So that's the myth, is
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: that he played Russian Ulette. No one else was playing.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: They were trying to get him to stop, and he
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: wouldn't stop. Okay, there's there's a conspiracy, and then there's
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: the truth, which is conspiracy adjacent that I happened to believe.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So the conspiracy is that Big Mama Thornton snuck a
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: bullet into the twenty two that Johnny Ace had.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Because she was just tired of all his snites, all
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: his foolishness. He had just been acting a fool backstage,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: just drinking too much, throwing weapons around. She was just like,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I'm putting a stop to this. And now we're at folklore.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a yes.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So we're saying the hidden bullet is the conspiracy theory.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: This is the conspiracy. Now people actually believe this. I'm
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: not one of them. People believe the Big Mama Thornton
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: had done this on behest of a guy named Don Roby,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: who is the most fascinating character in this story. Don
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Roby was a proto sug Knight. Don Roby was to
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: R and B what al Pohone was to the Chicago Mafia.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Don Roby was a larger than life, violent, exploitative black
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Jewish gangster from Houston.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Didn't he wasn't he a label head? Kind of yes,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: he was a Duke record.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: He was the head of a record label that was
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: first called Peacock, and then he merged that with a
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: white radio promoter last name of Mattis, who had a
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: label called Duke and then it became Duke Peacock for
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: a while. To paint the picture of who this guy was,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: he also had a club called like the Golden Peak.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Wasn't the Golden Peacock, but it was just something Peacock
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: uh in Houston, And every Saturday morning he would take
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: all the cash he made at the club the night before,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: throw it in a burlap bag, put it over his shoulder,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: take his shotgun, put two shells in the shotgun, put
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: that on his other shoulder, and waltz downtown through Houston,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: daring anyone to fuck with him while he went to
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: the bank to deposit the money. He did this himself
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: because he did not believe that anybody was tough enough,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: tough as him, violent as him, violent enough to fend
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: off anybody who would actually try to rob him.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: It's also a bit of a flex to like show
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: how tough.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, like you.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Were saying, Jake sug Knight is a pretty good analog.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, that exactly.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we got this, we got this character.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yes, So Don Robi had all his bases covered.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: He had he had the label which Johnny Yace was
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: signed to, and Big Mama Thornton, Peacock Records, venue, the venue,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the whatever Peacock Club, and then.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Probably also had some he could probably also touch local politicians,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: maybe law enforcement.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know about that. Who knows. Probably, I mean
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: that you start, who knows what those relationships are. But
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: he also had he was a booking agent, and he
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: was one of the first successful promoters on what would
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: become to be known the Chitman Circuit, which was the
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Black R and B network of clubs throughout throughout America
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: during this time. So he represented uh, he was the first,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: he represented Little Richard early on on the road, he
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: represented Clarence Gatemouth Brown and T bone Walker, these Texas
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: blues musicians. So he's kinda got his hands. He's all
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: over the board. And and what he wants more than anything.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: What Don Roby wants more than anything is hit on
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: the white pop charts. Now, Johnny Ace had a hit
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: on the R and B chart, number one hit with
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Oh God, what was the name of the song? My song?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: That was the name of the song, my song? Number
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: one hit for Johnny Ace on the R and B charts,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: didn't sniff the pop charts. Big Mama Thornton, she does
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: the liber and Stoller song I Ain't Nothing but a
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: hound Dog. It's a hit on the R and B charts,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: and Elvis covers it and it becomes a huge hit
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: on the white charts. But then it becomes kind of
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: a novelty song. But Don Roby starts to get a
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: sniff of how much money is available if he can
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: get a chart on the white if you can get
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: a song on the white chart, on the pop chart,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: So he really wants this for Johnny Aace. He thinks
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Johnny Ace is so cool, he's got the charisma to
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: actually be able to pull this off to cross over,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and it doesn't happen for Johnny Aace. Now this when
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Johnny shoots himself. It's nineteen fifty four, that's on Christmas Day,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: on New Year's Day, nineteen fifty three, Hank Williamiams dies,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: And what happens to Hank Williams single at the time.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: It rockets up the charts and it becomes a hit
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: number one hit, not on the country charts, on the
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: pop charts, and Don Roeby goes, oh, okay, okay, when
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: you die. When Hank Williams I'll Never Get out of
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: This World Alive is available for the public as a
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: single and the artist dies, that'll go to the number one,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: number one on the pop charts.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe not with his singles per se, but we've seen
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: plenty of that phenomenon with like the death of Prince
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: or David Rowley, like all of a sudden, purple rains
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: like on the charts again like and people are just
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: hard to find a reissue. So this is very real phenomenon.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: The question then becomes was the dude just a little
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: bit callous in releasing the single post mortem, or did
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: he actually manipulate events to create the situation that led
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to Johnny Ace's timely demise.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that single, Johnny Ace's single at the time
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: the day he died on Christmas was Pledging My Love,
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: was actually already out. It had just been released. So
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: the conspiracy piece of this is that people think Don
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Roby had manipulated Big Mama Thornton into doing his bidding
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: by slipping that bullet in the chamber. So if you
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: think Don Roby wants this number one hit, he wants
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Johnny Ace dead, then you've got motive. If you think
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: that Johnny Ace is a reckless drunkard who likes a
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: lot of gunplay, then you've got Then you've got means.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: And that's sort of how the conspiracy took off.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And then the question becomes, I don't know.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: We talk about the stuff like this on our other show,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know with our buddy
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Matt quite a lot. And oftentimes the more elaborate the conspiracy,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the less likely such a conspiracy was required to make
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the thing happen, You know what I mean. It's just
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the situation was already rife for dude to blow his
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: own head off by drinking too much and you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: flashing his gun around.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: You're exactly right, You're exactly right. And this is where
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: the myth busting piece comes into play too, because what
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: happens after he dies is it's perfect for Don Roby
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: because the press, being the duplicitest lying scumbags that they
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: just have forever been sure, they pick up the story
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: and they leave out half the facts, and literally the
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: headlines are that he died playing Russian Roulette, and he's
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: got this song called Pledge in My Love and it
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: starts to go up the charts, and it starts to
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: become a huge hit. And Don Roby's not gonna call
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: anyone up at the Houston Chronicle and be like, oh,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: excuse me, you got that wrong. No, he didn't die
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: from Russian Roulette. He died because he was drunk and
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: playing with a gun. So the myth just is allowed
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: to take shape. The records start.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: To sell, and a guy like that can't buy that
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: kind of coverage. And that's just the right level of
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: getting it wrong that benefits him because it creates it's
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: this mythological larger than life, this crazy guy, not just
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: this drunken buffoon who maybe had a little too much
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: to drink and accidentally shot himself.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Well, now it's folklore. Now it's zeitgeist. Now it's also,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: as you said, Jake, it's hitting past the chitlin circuit, right,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: it's public interest. Everybody is talking about it at the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: proverbial water cooler of the day. What happens to Ruby.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: In a just fantastic stroke of irony, Elvis is fishing
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: around for songs for what would become his last record.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: And this is in nineteen seventy six, and he still
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: has his fascination with Memphis boy Johnny Ace. So Elvis
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: records Pledging My Love, and then Elvis dies.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: The double tap, the double tap.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And Elvis's album is not a critical success.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: That last record, I believe is called Blue. What is
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: it called?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Moody Blue?
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Moody Blue? Thank you No, And but it sells a
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: shit ton as his albums did. And what happens is
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Don Robie rakes in the royalties and his estate anyways,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: rakes in the royalties because Don Roby's dead by that
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: that point, I don't remember how he met his end,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: but the sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah nothing, zip zilch.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It's a good example of people like that that are
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: taking advantage of you know, there's this guy's of like,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna help you out, I'm gonna lift you up
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: out of the ghetto or whatever it might be, because
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: you're my people and I have your best interest at heart.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: But there's just as many examples of people like that
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: taking advantage of their own, you know folks, and then
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: giving bad contracts, you know, making duplicitous deals and then
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: just keeping the money for themselves.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Or worse, dudes like Don Roby forcing their way into
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: co writes even though they had nothing to do with
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: the song. You know what I mean?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, that still happens, doesn't it.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't doubt it's has.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's certainly there were there there was a
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: golden age for that kind of stuff in politics. I mean,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: maybe it happens more in politics, but in music it's
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: a little hard to get away with that, I think
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: these days. But we also have you know, some Johnny
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: A songs being covered by some other pretty big names,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Bob Dylan and Joe Biaz did one of his tunes,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: never Let Me Go, on the Rolling Thunder review, which
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I think is featured in some of the film clips
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: from that incredible tour. Luther Vandross did a cover in
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the nineties of a song that he had recorded originally,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and then, of course the biggest one was Elvis is
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Pledging My Love, which was on that nineteen seventy six
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: record you're talking about.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Now, as we said, Johnny Ace passes away
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: in uh what may seem like a long time ago, right,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: but we must remember history is always closer than it
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: looks in the rear view mirror.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: A lot of people show up to the funeral, right,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: And I've got to ask if Jake is our buddy
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Dawn alive at this point? Does he show up to
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: see the passage of Johnny Ace.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: He's definitely alive then, yeah, for sure. And I can't
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: say that I know he did or did not, but
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: I would I would bet money that he did. He
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: was still sort of milking the cow at that point financially,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: and he was heavily invested in and.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: He had an appearance to keep up because it wasn't
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: going to be immediately apparent that he was taking everybody
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: to the cleaner, right, he has to be supportive the
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: same way of the community.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who's that? Who's that dude who took advantage of
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Elvis Presley Colonel the Colonel? Yeah, okay, hardly.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: As hell portrayed by Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks. What
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: an odd performance. I'm sorry, man, I don't we don't.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I don't have footage of this guy. I don't know
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: what he was like, but Tom made some choices.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And yeah, Tom from earlier, that guy is so wholesome.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: His main thing that uh Tom Hanks loves is typewriters
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: more than acting. Yeah, he collect Yeah, and Jake, if
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you if you have a typewriter and you type out
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a letter and send it to him, he'll probably type
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a letter back.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I love that, like Neil Young and his model trains.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like Noel and his cocaine have it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: If you guys and my modular synse excuse me exactly?
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: All right, Max, we'll keep it and I'll say as
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: we get de bosched when Jake's around, do you have
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: any other like little closing thoughts or takeaways from the story,
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: or how it kind of maybe you mentioned the tied
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: into that grief aspect that was such a through line
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: in your book.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I'm curious as to maybe how some of this fits
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: in with that.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: I sort of imagine Elvis Presley sitting in his jungle room,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: which was the man cave at Graceland, sort of, you know,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: it's Christmas time, the snow is falling lightly outside, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: he's you know, he's you know, grief kind of comes
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: back around the holidays. I'm not the first one to
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: say that. And I could see him at that time
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: sort of. You know, it's nineteen seventy six. He's in bad,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: bad shape, and he's he's fishing around, he's thinking about
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: his brother, and he's thinking about that song Pledging My Love,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: and I could just, yeah, I could see that all
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: clicking in the place dramatically and being motivation for Elvis
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: to cover that tune.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, you paint a picture, my friend. I'm
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: right there with you. Yeah. No, that's what a great
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: little little Christmas boat to put on this pretty dark
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Christmas story.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Also, yeah, we all think a little bit about melancholy
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: at this time. Of the year, a little bit of nostalgia, right,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and we get we all get a little counting crows.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Long December, I would.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Say, I think to Ben's point from earlier, is a
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Christmas song if you wanted to die.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: I love that. I love that. I'm taping a show
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: later today about Christmas movies and our Christmas movies, and
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that idea and
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: pass it off as my own.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Ben something, please, please, I give you. I give you full.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Noel for giving Jake permission for my idea.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: There is one conspiracy theory we have to ask you about,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: since you are our expert on music history, and if
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you'd like to be a returning correspondent, we be absolutely
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: just over the moon to have you. Have you ever heard,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Jake the idea that Elvis Presley is a malungeon?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: First of all, I'd love to come back any time.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I might discredit myself here in that endeavor by saying,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know what a malungeon is?
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: What is? What are we talking about? What is that?
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Jake? It's a it's a tri racial isolate in East Tennessee.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: UH with dodgy genetics. Uh yeah, usually accused historically of
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: being let's see, how's it go? No, it goes well, there's.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: No it's it's it's considered a native like a first
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: nation group, correct to some degree. And then there's like
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: a there's a treasure, there's a mythological treasure of the Melungeons.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: And of course it has come up. So I'm not
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: scooping here, Ben. I believe you are a member of
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: this tri racial isolate.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I am, and it is a it is a subject
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: of fascination, the idea that Elvis Presley might be maluncheon,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that Abraham Lincoln might be a luncheon. Basically, and just
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to you know, folks where an audio podcast, Noel, Jake,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Max and yours truly can all see each other. I
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: don't have the tan to pull this off, but I'm
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: mainly bringing this up to note that anytime someone achieves
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a certain threshold of fame, there will inevitably be folklore
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Should we agree with that?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely so.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Jake. What's a what's a myth or a piece of
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: American or folklore you would like us to propagate about you?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And by that he means where can people find your work,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: because you've got the folk Lord's out there already in
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: the book form and podcast form and video form. You
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: can out there.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: You can listen to Disgrace Slam the podcast wherever podcasts
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: are available, the iHeart app, the Spotify app, Apple podcasts,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: wherever that's available. We're gonna bump this Elvis Johnny Ace
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: archive episode up to the top right around the time
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: that that this version of the Ridiculous History episode goes live,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: so people should be able to find it pretty easily.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And I'd love to have you guys on one of
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: my bonus episodes.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding?
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah? No, And I'm not kidding at all. Yeah. Oftentimes,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: you know, like last week in the bonus episode, which
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: is much different from the main scripted episodes, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I was talking about there's this big vidy, this big documentary,
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: the Age of Disclosure. Have you guys seen this? It's fantastic,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: And I was talking about that relative to musicians like
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Merle Haggard was a huge He had a UFO experience
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: and he would not shut up about. At the end
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: of his life, John Lennon put it into Nobody told
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: me blank one eighty two we have an episode on
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Tom DeLong being part of the disclosure movement. So oftentimes
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: we touch on topics that you guys are interested that
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: you guys are interested in, and I know, and we'd
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: love to have you. I'd love to have you on
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: to just sort of, you know, have a go both ways.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Well between ridiculous history and stuff. They want you to know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: we're basically interested in everything that there is, So I
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: think we could probably find a crossover opportunity.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Love that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Love that, man, Dude, what a pleasure, haven't you. This
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: is such an interesting topic and a bit of a
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: dark one for Christmas, But we did do Fruitcake last week,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: so I think we're okay. We balanced it out. You know,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: you got to have the light with the dark.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys talked about my nineties band Fruitcake.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I love your work mainly just you know, Jake, when
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: you listen, it's three hour podcasts, so not a time commitment. Yeah,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and the first two hours and fifty minutes are the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: study of your band Fruitcake.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: The rest of it is just various historical Fruitcake restime.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: The last Uh do Thank you so much for joining us. Also,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: we have to thank a couple of other people, including
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you Max.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Alex Williams who composed this theme. Who is
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: this is maybe news to you, Jake, but is Max's
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: actual facts brother, and he's in the town for the
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: holidays and we're excited to hang out with him. Love
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: very soon. Love Chris Frociotis and Eaves Jeffcoat both here
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: in spirit.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Love that, And Jake. I hate to hold you to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: the point, but ethics require can you give me one
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: legend to make up about you?
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: About me? That I am actually the grandson of Elvis
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Presley's twin brother, oh my, who did not die at birth,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: but was in fact given away to help people because
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: his mama, Gladys, could not afford to raise him.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And that is our show. That is a fact. It
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: is on record Library of Congress, fight with us.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Thanks guys, it is my pleasure. I appreciate you.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Oh heck yeah, We'll see you next time.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Folks.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.