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When Homeschooling Fails and When It Works · Other Peoples Parenting

0:00
Hello, everyone.
0:01
Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
0:08
I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parent, and this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times best selling author and founder of Habit Coach and Testing Mom.
0:17
Hello, mom.
0:18
Hi, Skylar.
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How are you?
0:20
I was gonna ask you how you were, but.
0:22
You're gonna ask me how I am.
0:23
Yes, I was gonna ask you how you are.
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We survived a storm this weekend.
0:27
Yes.
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A biblical storm.
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Huge storm.
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And we were having an outdoor party.
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We were.
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And it was raining just like crazy.
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It was crazy.
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But there was a tent.
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Yes, we had a tent.
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We had a tent.
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We all got under the tent.
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Yes.
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And it was only after the fact that my mom was like, you know, we all could have been electrocuted in this tent.
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Yes, we could have been.
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We could have been.
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I was kind of worried about that at the time.
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I'm thinking, is this safe?
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I mean, it was all made of steel, like all the piping and the.
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Stuff, as tents often are.
1:00
Yeah.
1:01
And.
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But it was really pretty scary.
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But it was fun, actually.
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So much fun.
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We did.
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It made the party more exciting.
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It really did.
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Yeah, it did make the party more exciting.
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It was really fun.
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And we survived.
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We did.
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We did.
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So here we are.
1:15
Here we are.
1:15
And today we're going to talk to you about something that is taking the Internet and world by storm.
1:21
This is something that has obviously been around for a very long time, but as a result of COVID and like, Honestly, I believe TikTok has become much more widespread and all different kinds of people are participating in this.
1:37
And we're going to be discussing homeschooling.
1:39
Not a specific book, but several articles that kind of COVID the very many angles of homeschooling in its current iteration.
1:48
Right, right.
1:49
I mean, yeah.
1:50
It's something that I've certainly known about for a long time.
1:54
I didn't know it was such a big thing on TikTok now.
1:56
Is it?
1:57
Yes.
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There are people claiming expertise who are not experts, merely people who have tried it briefly or once who are like, listen, guys, this is my way.
2:08
And it's amazing.
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And it's like, I'm sorry, who, who are you?
2:13
Right.
2:13
What do you know?
2:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:15
No, Well, I, I, I do know some about quite a bit, actually, about homeschooling.
2:21
You do?
2:21
Because you have a company that actually offers it.
2:24
Right.
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When we help people who want to homeschool their kids and because homeschooling does.
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Not necessarily mean you, the parent Are the teacher.
2:32
There are ways to outsource homeschooling.
2:35
It's like, it's.
2:36
The term homeschooling is a bit of an oversimplification, I think.
2:40
Yeah.
2:40
It's.
2:40
Well, you are schooling your child at home instead of at a school.
2:45
Yes.
2:46
But you.
2:46
There's many ways to do it.
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You yourself can do it.
2:51
You can hire teachers to.
2:53
To come in and do it.
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You can.
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You can do it online.
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There's.
2:57
There's just a lot of ways, a lot of ways.
2:59
Yeah.
2:59
Which we'll talk about.
3:00
Yeah.
3:00
And there are a lot of different kinds of people that are now homeschool.
3:05
Curious.
3:06
And I think that's a very new thing, because maybe this is my own personal bias, but the people I thought of as people who were gonna go the homeschool route are typically people who have problems with public school
3:20
curriculum, primarily because they don't really believe in the agreed upon things that it teaches, such as evolution and other theories.
3:31
Evolution's not a theory.
3:32
I'm gonna take that back.
3:34
Evolution is science.
3:36
But, you know, they.
3:37
That's not the kind of thing that they want to be teaching their kids.
3:39
They're often hyper religious people who are more.
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Who really want to shelter their kids and give their children a very specific education that for many reasons most public schools don't offer.
3:52
Right.
3:53
And I.
3:53
And there still are a lot of people like that that are homeschooling their kids.
3:57
Tell us about the convention you went to.
3:59
Oh, okay.
4:00
So Skylar finds this very interesting.
4:04
This was about.
4:04
This was before COVID And what's interesting is one of the articles we're going to cover is a reporter goes to this same convention, but she goes to, I think, a local.
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A little regional, more regional convention team went to the global convention.
4:20
I went to the big convention.
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And oh, this was.
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Gosh, it has to be 10 years ago or could have been even more.
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I can't remember.
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It was quite a while ago.
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But it was before homeschooling really changed to embrace many other different groups and reasons that people homeschool.
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So when I went, it was.
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And I had no idea.
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I just thought it was people who stayed home and schooled their kids.
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And so Testing mom went and we were showing off.
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Testing Mom.
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Like, you can use our curriculum.
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We have.
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And our space babies.
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Right.
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We were giving away these cute little space babies to the kids that were there.
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But what we didn't realize was that every family that was there had about 13 to 15 kids.
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These were families with a lot of kids.
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God, Bless those mothers.
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Right?
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And so you understand, in a way, why they are homeschooling.
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Because trying to get that many kids to school would be a lot.
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Trying to get that many kids up in the morning, I would.
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I would pass away, right?
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So I would just.
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No, I remember one little boy.
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He was so cute.
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He came over to our booth and he's like.
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He saw the space babies, and he says, oh, can I have one?
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And we gave him one.
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And he said, can I have one for all my brothers and sisters?
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They're here, too.
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And I'm sure.
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How.
5:36
Sure how many?
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And he's like, I need 12 more.
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And I'm like, oh, my gosh.
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I don't think we brought enough space babies.
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We didn't realize.
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I mean, were they, like, homesteaders?
5:46
Well, I.
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I don't know.
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I guess so, sort of.
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I was thinking about that because I think it's easy in a lot of ways to make assumptions about families like this, especially in our country.
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And I was thinking about, like, in other countries where people live in much more rural places where it's really difficult to get a child to school.
6:06
You know, whether the school is far away.
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There aren't always modes of transportation.
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And I think that maybe in circumstances like that, I can understand the desire to homeschool your child.
6:16
That said, a lot of these are countries where people don't necessarily have the freedom to stay home and teach their kids.
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You know, it's a different.
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What I sensed from this particular convention, again, before COVID ever happened, was that the group was more religious, more Christian.
6:35
They also sold guns at this convention.
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Well, yeah, that was another thing, was everybody came with their family.
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It was really interesting.
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I had no idea.
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But the most popular booths were not the ones like ours, which.
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Where we were talking about teaching math and teaching English and that sort of thing.
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But there were all these booths that had both real.
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I thought.
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I believed they were real and fake guns and rifles and.
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AK.
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What are those?
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AK 47?
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Yeah.
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Things like that.
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And that's crazy.
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And they were the most popular, and the kids, the parents, everybody was in line to see what they had.
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And so that was very popular there.
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Another booth that was extremely popular was the actual Little House on the Prairie museum.
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I mean, these families, it seemed like that was their Mecca.
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And they all just were so fascinated by Laura Ingalls Wilder and what it was like to be brought up, you know, on the prairie.
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So that was that.
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They were all there.
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That was a big one.
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When was Little House on the Prairie.
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Set Like, oh, in the 1800s.
7:49
Okay.
7:50
Yeah.
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When, when people were coming to across.
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The Oregon Trail, I guess.
7:56
So I, I, I really should watch the new version of it that's coming on Netflix right now.
8:01
Oh, I didn't realize there was no, there's a new.
8:03
They just, they rebooted it.
8:04
Oh, they rebooted it.
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That's right.
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It's, it's new.
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It's on, it's on Netflix.
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I love that little revival action.
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Revival.
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We love a revival.
8:12
Yeah, but, but they, this was, you know, a big thing for, for all the people there.
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They all wanted to go there and bring their kids.
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That's, that's a kind of a big, big vacation or a vacation to go.
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See the Little House to an educational convention.
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No, they wanted to go to the Little House on the Prairie Museum.
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That was not to this.
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But I mean, this was fun, I guess, for the kids.
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And so they got space babies and other things.
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And I remember the assault rifles.
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Assault rifles, space babies, Little House on the Prairie.
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There was a rabbi who had a booth that was selling all the kind of Jewish paraphernalia that was not a popular bo.
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I was surprised he was there.
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It was interesting.
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I don't know why.
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Maybe he was like, you know how in education.
9:01
Well, Mormons have missionaries.
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Maybe he saw himself as a missionary.
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Maybe there were other people like us by Testing mom that were, you know, offering curriculum and, and books that you would, could teach your kids by.
9:15
Yeah, that's something so interesting.
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Like the just spectrum of curriculum, total spectrum.
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And one of the problems we at Testing mom had was which again, I had no idea I learned so much by going was people were asking me if my math curriculum was Bible related.
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Like, dude, we have.
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And I wasn't even sure how to do that.
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How to make math.
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What is biblical about math?
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Well, that's, I think maybe word problems.
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That's the only thing I can think of.
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Okay.
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I was about to say because I feel like math is like a pretty empirical.
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It's either black or white.
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That's what I thought too.
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And I thought, turns out, no, but.
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And you can get.
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Now I know you can get more biblical math.
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I, I believe the, as far as.
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I know, like two Josephs and three Marys.
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How many people?
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How many people is that?
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How many people would that be?
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How many disciples were there?
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Right.
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Split them in half.
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Yes.
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And multiply them by three.
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Exactly.
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Well, that's right.
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Like how to bring, how to bring the Bible into.
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I should write these books.
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Exactly.
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I had none of Those problems.
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That's so wild.
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I know.
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And I was like, gosh, I.
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I'm sorry, I can't help you with that.
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Because our curriculum was non denominational.
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I mean, it was just a math curriculum.
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Yeah.
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Like you could get at a school, at.
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At a.
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At a school.
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Reform math.
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Right.
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So anyway, what was interesting.
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It was a very interesting experience.
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I.
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I was.
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But these people were so nice.
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They were lovely people.
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I had a good time going.
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I had a great time with their kids.
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I was just fascinated by just the cultural difference because it was so.
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It was just something I'd never experienced, all in all.
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Obviously not.
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You didn't get to meet every kid.
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But were they relatively well mannered?
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Oh, totally.
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Very nice.
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They were very nice kids.
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So I think one of the things.
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One of the main critiques of homeschooling has a lot to do with socialization.
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Yeah.
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And there's an argument that's like, well, if your kid is alone at home with you all day, they aren't being socialized.
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And like, how do you address that?
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And that's kind of a misconception.
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There are groups of many homeschool kids that get together, so they do get to spend time with other kids.
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Also, chances are they have several siblings, so they.
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Maybe they are not alone in their classroom.
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Their classroom might be the same size as a private school classroom, in some.
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Cases, could have 18 kids in it for all you know.
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I mean, it's these women.
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Oh, my God.
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I'm sorry.
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The unsung heroes of the west.
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Who's popping out 18 children?
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Well, I.
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There were so many.
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There were huge.
12:00
Are you tired?
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Well, at that time, again, that was before COVID I think now we're seeing a very different.
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I mean, we are seeing those same families, but we're also seeing families who.
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Which we'll talk about.
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We'll get into the articles.
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After Covid, they decided they really felt they could do a better job of educating their kids for whatever reason.
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You might have a child who's neurodivergent and you just can't find the right program in your public school.
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Can you imagine if you tried to homeschool me?
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Two women with adhd?
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No.
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Trying to learn as true.
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It would have been.
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It would have been a disaster.
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I could never have done it.
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But, you know, dad and I always used to talk about this because, for example, private school is so expensive.
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So expensive.
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And we were in New York raising you and Sam.
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We were paying for two private schools, which could have easily paid for a teacher's salary and we could have.
13:02
I homeschooled you just with a private teacher and saved money.
13:06
I learned from the streets.
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Yeah, I guess.
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Which wasn't free because I still went to private school.
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You still went to private school part of the time.
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You also went to public school?
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Yeah, I did both.
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I did.
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I did do both.
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And then I pretended to go to other people's schools because my school wasn't that interesting.
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You didn't like your school, so you used to go to your friend's school down the street?
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Yeah.
13:25
Did they let you?
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They just let me in.
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This was like before they were doing active shooter drills when you could just sort of walk in and out of public schools.
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Like you went there and nobody would really stop you.
13:35
Oh, wow.
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Well, so, like, they probably recognized me after a while, so.
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Yeah, we've seen her around.
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She probably goes here.
13:41
Yeah.
13:41
Who are we to say?
13:42
I remember you used to go to a different.
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You didn't have to, like, scan an ID or anything.
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You just sort of like, yeah, I go here.
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You would skip the school we were paying for and then go to your friend's school.
13:51
Did you go to class?
13:52
Yeah.
13:52
Oh, wow.
13:53
Okay.
13:54
Okay.
13:54
But, you know, that kind of explains why you never learned grammar very well.
13:59
Well, no, I willfully did not learn grammar because grammar is a construct like time and space, and these are not things that serve me.
14:08
So maybe I should have homeschooled you.
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Maybe it would have been better.
14:13
Oh, teen.
14:13
No one could have taught me grammar.
14:14
Oh, God.
14:15
Okay.
14:16
You would have pulled all your hair out.
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But anyway, we can get into the articles because.
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Okay, let's do the articles.
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I learned so much.
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I had one very specific idea of who I thought homeschooled their kids and the kind of.
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That it produced and, oh, how wrong I was.
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Yes.
14:30
Yes.
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Okay, so let's talk.
14:32
We have.
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We actually have five articles, but they're.
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They're not too long, so they're brief.
14:38
So you want to start with the first one, which is.
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This is one just.
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It's an educators.
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A woman who actually is a college professor.
14:48
And this was in Psychology Today called the Rise of Homeschooling Conventions of an Educator by Calvina.
15:03
That was from Psychology Today.
15:04
So why don't you talk a little bit about that one?
15:08
So the subhead of this article was a personal perspective why I chose to homeschool.
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So she's a psychologist and a professor who teaches in a classroom.
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But she decided to homeschool her own kids for a few reasons.
15:22
First, she noticed that her students weren't very prepared for college, university level work by the time they arrived there.
15:30
She felt that they couldn't communicate their ideas effectively, that they didn't demonstrate critical thought, which personally I don't think is necessarily the school system's problem.
15:40
I think like in the world we are struggling with teaching people how to think critically.
15:46
But schools are supposed to teach that.
15:48
Yeah, but schools are competing with the Internet, which is hard.
15:51
You know, your kid probably spends as much time on the Internet as they spend in school, unfortunately.
15:56
And then the research revealed that homeschooled kids had higher standardized test scores and higher GPAs.
16:03
So another thing I think a lot of parents, she was concerned about this were some of the bad social aspects of school, like bullying and peer pressure and safety.
16:13
Because unfortunately, we now live in a world where there are school shootings.
16:17
Right.
16:17
Like, my husband is considerably younger than I am, and I asked him, I was like, did you guys have active shootings when you were in school?
16:24
It's like, yeah, of course we did.
16:26
And there's seven years between us that was not even on our radar when I was in high school.
16:32
And I was in high school after Columbine.
16:35
But it wasn't like this big proliferated thing, you know, after she started homeschooling her kids, they became more responsive to her guidance in general, which I'm not surprised about.
16:48
Right.
16:48
Like, you build a stronger rapport, you spend more time together.
16:52
That kind of dynamic then carries on into the rest of your relationship.
16:58
She felt that their family connection was stronger, and she was able to tailor her teaching and her husband's teaching to each child's interest, which maintained a creative component that they enjoyed and they could learn from.
17:10
And their learning wasn't limited to the classroom.
17:14
Something else that I liked about this was that she said she didn't spend as many hours doing school.
17:19
She says there's really no research around why a school day needs to be eight hours hours.
17:24
And I, it reminded me of there was a section of Hunt Gather Parent that talked about the foundling hospitals and how, yes, when you are managing, you know, so many children, you have to have systems in place in
17:38
the interest of, like, keeping order.
17:41
And I realized the school system is set up in a similar way.
17:45
So like one on one, you don't necessarily need all of these systems.
17:50
Right, right.
17:51
But when you're managing, you know, 30 kids in a classroom, there has to be a way to maintain order.
17:57
So a lot of.
17:58
Not a lot, but at least some of the time, educating is going to be spent keeping people in order and keeping people in line.
18:06
Right.
18:06
So their school days were probably about half the length when they were homeschooled.
18:11
And she said they could focus on other things, like if they were interested in sports or art or something, they had a lot more time to devote to that and they were keeping up with the curriculum.
18:19
Now, one important thing to remember, she has an educational background.
18:23
She is a teacher.
18:24
So she is uniquely qualified in this situation to homeschool her child.
18:30
The vast majority of people who homeschool their children and do it themselves do not have backgrounds in education.
18:38
They're just winging it.
18:40
Right, right.
18:41
That's true.
18:42
And I think it's easier to wing it when you're teaching elementary, probably, than when you start to get into middle school and high school.
18:48
I'm sure it gets a lot harder.
18:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:51
I mean, I don't know how you do it, honestly, because I barely got through high school myself, so.
18:58
Well, how could I teach another person?
19:00
Personally, I.
19:01
I feel like my math education kind of stops at about third grade.
19:05
Same I can do, you know, the basics, but when it starts to get into algebra and geometry, I.
19:11
I just.
19:11
Long division is where is my limit?
19:14
And honestly, I can't say with confidence.
19:16
I can look at a long division problem and solve it for you today.
19:19
Oh, really?
19:20
Yeah, I think I.
19:21
Well, anyway, I knew.
19:22
Use a calculator.
19:23
You really have to think about it.
19:26
No, I would be hard to do, but, you know, but she did it and she's very happy with it.
19:33
So.
19:33
The next article is called why Homeschooling is Still on the Rise by Khalida Raman from Newsweek.
19:42
And it starts with a Canadian mother.
19:45
She tells a story about a Canadian mother who began homeschooling her child because he was so advanced for his age when it came to learning.
19:53
He taught himself to read at age 3, and she just stuck with it during the pandemic.
20:01
And she realized that many other families were driven to do the same thing after the pandemic, in part by a desire to tailor their child's education.
20:14
After the pandemic, we've seen diversification of what a homeschooling parent looks like.
20:19
And this is what you were just talking about.
20:22
Once, it was just something that people chose for religious reasons.
20:26
Now many parents choose it because they just think it's the best choice for their child.
20:31
Most cite reason.
20:33
The most cited reasons are things like safety, drug exposure.
20:38
They don't want their kids to be exposed to that negative peer pressure school curriculum.
20:43
They're dissatisfied with, you know, what's taught.
20:48
Half cited wanting to provide religious instruction or to provide a more non traditional.
20:55
Approach to teaching, which could mean anything.
20:58
It could be anything.
21:00
A lot of people just object to gender neutral bathrooms.
21:03
There's a lot of political stuff that.
21:06
Is, you know, which again, I think is a byproduct of the Internet.
21:11
A big thing that I remember from Testing moms is definitely my tutor Maddie.
21:16
She was a lot more patient and made tutoring a lot more fun than learning about things with my mom.
21:22
I remember that there were a lot of games and it made me look forward to going to tutoring every week.
21:29
And I think is a byproduct of.
21:31
Of the Internet and our times.
21:33
You know, it's just political divide, that kind of thing.
21:37
In fact, education has become much more of a political background since the pandemic with conservatives who are pushing to eliminate wokeness in the classroom.
21:48
And several states have passed laws.
21:51
They talk a lot about how history was taught and how history is currently taught.
21:57
Right.
21:58
And I think it's interesting.
21:59
I mean, I think history is written by the winners.
22:03
Right, right.
22:04
And I think now at this time that we are in, there is a little bit more emphasis on like, okay, there's two sides to the situation.
22:16
For example, they're being a little more honest with kids about what really happened and why Thanksgiving exists.
22:22
You know what I mean?
22:22
Right.
22:23
Whereas before it was like, yeah, the Native Americans were here and the Pilgrims.
22:27
Came, then they had a big feast and it's like, it's all very positive.
22:30
Yeah, yeah, it was very.
22:32
Which again, age appropriate is fine, but eventually you sort of have to be like, all right, guys, there was smallpox, there were blankets.
22:40
It wasn't all turkey and peace and mashed potatoes.
22:43
Yeah, yeah.
22:43
There was a lot of conflict because that's how places are settled.
22:49
That's how countries are born, unfortunately.
22:51
Right.
22:52
But it's a fact of history and life.
22:55
And I think there was one parent in an article who was like, I hate the way we're demonizing Washington and Jefferson.
23:01
It's like they can be flawed people too.
23:05
They are flawed.
23:06
They did an incredible thing by founding this nation.
23:09
But they were not perfect people, my friend.
23:11
And that's fine.
23:12
And they.
23:13
And there are people who don't want that to be brought into the conversation.
23:16
God forbid we put some disrespect on George Washington's name.
23:20
I won't have it.
23:21
That's right.
23:22
I mean, there's so much of history.
23:23
I don't know him.
23:25
Right.
23:26
Well, they want People to feel patriotic, but it's not all a happy story for everyone and they're trying to show that.
23:34
Yeah.
23:34
And I think this idea that like everything has to be perfect for you to have pride in your country is silly.
23:39
The world is not perfect.
23:40
Your country is not perfect no matter where you are.
23:43
But that is one of the reasons that people say going to homeschool, because I want to teach it the way I want to teach it.
23:49
And so that's just, that is what's going on.
23:52
And.
23:53
Fair enough.
23:54
Yeah.
23:54
So we, we also meet a woman who, we meet one woman who's been homeschooling for 20 years and she talks about a particular curriculum or program she uses called, it happens to be called, extend homeschool tutorials.
24:09
They have a la carte classes in group settings, in person.
24:14
Now there's only 85 kids in this program, at least at the time of the article.
24:18
So it's not a big program.
24:20
But you can be a homeschooler and still perhaps take your child somewhere where there's other kids and one teacher teaching a group of kids.
24:29
But they're doing it the way you want it done.
24:31
Yeah.
24:31
So there's that and there's just, I happen to know just because of the business that we have, there are so many curriculums out there you can purchase, you can get textbooks, you can get curriculum to follow and you
24:46
can, some are more faith based, some are secular.
24:51
There's just a whole bunch of them that you can buy into if you want to.
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
But again, I should emphasize there is no qualifying test for a person, a parent, whomever is going to be educating the child that they have to pass or course they have to participate in.
25:08
You can just say, I'm deciding, I'm the teacher and that's that.
25:13
And they can do it.
25:13
And we'll get into more of that and why that.
25:16
And in many states you don't even have to like tell them that you're doing this.
25:19
Exactly.
25:20
You're just like, all right, today's the day my kid's not going to school anymore.
25:22
Bye.
25:23
Uh huh.
25:24
That's true.
25:24
And that's, we'll talk a lot more about that.
25:27
Right now we're on the positives.
25:30
We're trying to be positive about that.
25:31
Yeah.
25:32
And listen, I, I am positive about it for a lot.
25:35
It's good for some kids.
25:36
It's the right approach.
25:37
It is for sure.
25:39
Yes.
25:39
Particularly for very advanced kids and kids who are really struggling, I think could benefit.
25:45
Yeah.
25:45
From one on one attention.
25:47
But Caveat from somebody who knows how to do it.
25:50
Ideally, I don't think just the blind leading the blind is the right approach.
25:55
Right.
25:55
Well, we actually just.
25:57
Just.
25:58
I'm jumping in a little early, but I.
26:00
You know, at Testing mom, for example, we didn't used to homeschool, but during the pandemic, we started homeschooling families because.
26:09
Everybody was homeschooling because everyone was at home.
26:11
And there were many parents who just couldn't do it.
26:13
Yeah.
26:14
For whatever reason.
26:15
And so we actually have teach.
26:17
So our teachers started teaching kids all over the country.
26:21
So if a parent couldn't manage algebra, we had an algebra teacher.
26:26
And we still do.
26:27
And there are still families.
26:28
We are still homeschooling families who started with us during COVID and they liked it so much, they just kept doing it.
26:36
Yeah.
26:37
So we've done this.
26:38
And.
26:39
And they're all in different kinds of situations.
26:42
Some of them kids are just, you know, kids who are doing fine in school.
26:47
There are some kids, neurodivergent kids that we have.
26:52
We just have a whole group different, you know, types of students.
26:57
And it's worked out really well.
26:59
Yeah.
26:59
And it's so funny.
27:00
I'm going to be meeting one of these families who I feel like I know.
27:03
Like I know them so well.
27:04
I've been working with them for so long.
27:06
We're going to be meeting IRL in real life in New York.
27:11
They're coming for a trip.
27:12
Oh, how fun.
27:12
And I'm going to meet them, and they're teachers that we have in this area.
27:16
They're all coming and we're all going to meet, and we're all excited about meeting each other in person because we've only met online.
27:23
It's so funny.
27:24
But, I mean.
27:25
But I think it's worked out beautifully for them.
27:28
And we're not their only teachers.
27:30
The mom is teaching.
27:32
The grandmother is teaching with guidance.
27:36
Well, the mom, she's very educated, and her mother is a professor.
27:43
So.
27:44
Yeah, these are people who are, I think, are just.
27:46
They're good teachers.
27:47
Yeah.
27:47
And they can teach their kids.
27:48
Listen.
27:48
And they're good.
27:49
It works out totally.
27:50
But in this family and.
27:51
But there's lots of families.
27:53
So anyway, we have gotten into that.
27:56
Not.
27:56
We didn't expect to, but it sort of got you pivoted.
27:59
We pivoted during COVID and we're still taking care of their kids.
28:03
Because Testing mom primarily does test prep.
28:07
We do test prep, but we do a lot of.
28:09
We do a lot of tutoring of kids for just Academics.
28:14
So we do a lot of that anyway.
28:16
So we just had the resources to do it, and we still do.
28:19
So anyway, so we've done it.
28:22
And it's just for a lot of these helping families that are maybe not the traditional homeschoolers, but people who decided they like homeschooling their kids, and so we've done that.
28:34
It can make sense for your family for a number of reasons.
28:36
I think so.
28:37
Which, again, I don't think a lot of people were really open to considering before the pandemic, because, again, necessity is the mother of invention.
28:44
Right, Right.
28:45
And I think, especially when I think of the families we've been working with, too, you have either kids who are, like you said, who are ahead, or you have kids who maybe have some learning difficulties and they're struggling
29:00
in certain areas.
29:01
It's just been a godsend for them.
29:04
Because one thing I can tell you about the school system, private or public, is that there is very little patience for kids who learn differently.
29:10
You know, there's.
29:12
And if you don't fit in the system, they let you fall behind or they punish you for falling behind.
29:17
They try, but they really don't have the resources.
29:19
Yeah.
29:20
Which, again, super fair.
29:21
I mean, you're one teacher trying to manage 30 kids.
29:24
It's like, if one kid's falling behind, it's sort of like, well, every man for yourself.
29:28
Right.
29:28
And I remember, like, when.
29:29
When your brother.
29:31
When we thought we were gonna have to put him in special ed and even you.
29:34
Because turns out Sam's a genius.
29:36
He's very.
29:36
He turned out to be a genius.
29:38
But we didn't know that at the time.
29:39
No.
29:40
And the same with you.
29:41
The.
29:41
When we.
29:41
I am not a genius.
29:44
Well, we were trying to get special services for you.
29:48
And what they do is they make you.
29:52
You know, you take your IQ test, they test you, whatever.
29:55
Then they make you go in and look at their.
29:58
Their special ed programs.
30:00
And usually it's a mixture of many kids, all with many different problems that have nothing to do with each other.
30:08
I went to one of those schools.
30:10
I know.
30:10
And what happens there?
30:12
Well, what's interesting about a school like that, it's an exercise in empathy in one way, but it's also sort of like a meeting of the evilest minds.
30:22
It was like all the villains from all the schools who had been kicked out.
30:25
We all got together in this one school, and we're like, let's wreak some havoc, y'.
30:29
All.
30:29
And you did.
30:30
I know.
30:30
Well, that's when I was trying to, you know.
30:32
Cause you did have learning issues.
30:34
And so it's all these kids with different learning issues that have nothing to do with each other generally.
30:40
They say that, oh yes, we take care of the, we know how to take care of kids with this learning.
30:45
It's like being at a Z, basically.
30:48
It's like the guy who takes care of the penguins might not know how to take care of the tigers.
30:51
Right.
30:52
And that's how it was.
30:53
It was not.
30:54
That was when you were skipping out and going to the other school that I didn't even know about.
30:57
They locked that school from the outside and I still found a way out.
31:01
I know.
31:02
Well, I'm, you know, so let's say in that situation had I really understood that this is.
31:08
I eventually did and got you out and moved you to another school.
31:11
You mainstreamed me.
31:12
I eventually, which was a polite way to call you can't stay here anymore.
31:17
Find a different school.
31:18
And we did find a different school for you.
31:20
But I could have, that would have been a perfect opportunity to homeschool had I.
31:25
You were so busy.
31:26
Well, I would, when were you going to home school?
31:28
I would have had to quit my job.
31:30
I mean, I, I, if you're going to homeschool your child, you, you need to be there.
31:34
Yeah.
31:34
So there's an element of sacrifice if you are working.
31:37
And even if you're not like a mom who stays home, they still have plenty to do.
31:42
Right.
31:43
You know, some moms find it more fulfilling.
31:45
I, I can imagine being a mom personally, I would be overwhelmed.
31:49
Right.
31:49
So anyway, I, you know, I could have home school.
31:51
That would have been the perfect situation to homeschool a child like you.
31:57
But you also would not, you and I together probably would not have worked out well as teacher and student.
32:03
No.
32:04
We would have gone on like, let's do an outing and then we'd like still be lost in Central park to this day.
32:08
I didn't understand that.
32:09
I had ADHD too at the time.
32:11
And you did.
32:12
And the two of us together, it would have been a disaster.
32:15
We really feed each other's worst qualities.
32:18
But anyway, but, but that is the situation that, that I think we see a lot at testing mom, where there's a parent or parents who, you know, they, they, the school system is failing them and so we can
32:32
get those kids in and really get them with a teacher one on one and work with them and it helps.
32:39
It makes sense.
32:40
They're ready.
32:41
We've, we've now have kids going to college who we've homeschooled so iconic.
32:45
Yeah, it's great.
32:45
So.
32:46
But I'm just saying that's.
32:47
That's the kind of child.
32:48
And if you are in that situation as a parent, you don't know what to do.
32:52
So.
32:52
Yeah.
32:53
Or if your child, say, is like pursuing a professional career, like if they're like an actor or a dancer or some other sort of like prodigal talent that needs to be fostered.
33:04
Right.
33:05
You know, I think that's a perfect opportunity to seek homeschool.
33:08
You can work a couple.
33:09
You can do school for a couple of hours and then they can go do work on their talent or whatever.
33:14
Yeah, there's lots of things like that.
33:16
So more and more, that's really what this article is about.
33:19
That is, it's not just for ultra religious families anymore.
33:24
It's for a little bit of everybody.
33:27
And now that, you know, after Covid, it's become much more accepted.
33:31
Yes.
33:31
So why don't we get into the story in the Atlantic about this one?
33:36
Was this is actually a story about a book that we almost covered.
33:41
Yes.
33:41
But we decided not to because.
33:43
I don't know, it's.
33:44
I don't know why we did it.
33:45
It was nonfiction, I think it was a very.
33:48
It was a small.
33:50
It was one very specific instance of homeschooling that was sort of worst case scenario.
33:56
Yes.
33:57
And so we decided.
33:58
And I love that book.
33:59
Did you like it?
33:59
Yeah, it's a very funny book.
34:00
It's called Homeschooled.
34:01
It's also sad, but he's such a good writer that you're just kind of like you're on a journey.
34:07
It feels very Gray Gardens, in a way.
34:09
Yeah, I get that.
34:11
Okay.
34:11
So what it's about, just to tell you, it's called he was homeschooled for Years and Fell so Far behind by Olga Kazan.
34:18
And it was in the Atlantic.
34:20
I love the Atlantic.
34:21
It's such a good magazine online.
34:22
It's great.
34:24
Is it a magazine?
34:25
It's an online magazine.
34:26
Oh, okay.
34:27
I subscribed.
34:28
You subscribed?
34:28
I did.
34:29
I liked it.
34:30
But anyway, because they do such good articles.
34:32
Yeah, I do.
34:33
I often find myself.
34:34
They've good headlines, too.
34:35
They really draw me in.
34:36
They do.
34:37
But anyway, so what this is about is about that book Homeschooled by Stephen Merrill Block.
34:43
And just.
34:44
I'll give you this, the.
34:45
The summary and you can add because you actually read it.
34:49
But his mom pulled him out of fourth grade after he was complaining about his teacher being mean.
34:54
Yeah.
34:55
And his mom was kind of at Loose ends.
34:57
And she just didn't know what to do with herself.
34:59
So she's like, oh, I'll homeschool you.
35:01
Yeah.
35:01
And she was completely not prepared to do it.
35:06
And what she would do, she just left him to do whatever he wanted, which was reading novels, comic books, watching Oprah.
35:14
Whatever he wanted.
35:15
Yeah.
35:15
His father, who was a psychologist, was willfully ignorant.
35:19
Ignored everything.
35:21
Yeah.
35:22
He didn't want to take it on.
35:23
Exactly.
35:24
And he said that even.
35:25
They said even as a child, the author realized he was just falling farther and farther behind.
35:31
He knew it.
35:32
Yes.
35:32
And I love this when he, when he went back to, to ninth grade, they finally put him back in school all he could get, only Cs, Ds and Fs.
35:42
That's the best I could do.
35:43
And I was there the whole time.
35:45
Well, you did better than that.
35:47
I don't know, Mom.
35:48
I think you did.
35:49
I think you did.
35:50
He did.
35:51
You did better than that.
35:53
But anyway.
35:54
But he thought the Civil War was called that because despite all the bloodshed, the two sides exhibited good etiquette.
36:01
Yeah.
36:02
Which I thought was great.
36:03
Yeah.
36:03
I thought good thinking on your part.
36:05
But wrong.
36:06
But incorrect.
36:07
Not what happened.
36:09
Right.
36:09
But anyway, what the, what this, this book brings out and what the article talks about is if you're wondering why they were never checked by the authorities, it's because homeschooling was then and is now so unregulated.
36:23
Half the states, including Texas, where he lived, don't require homeschoolers to be evaluated.
36:29
Not all states require any intervention if your child is found to be failing.
36:35
And if they do, check on you.
36:37
Most states allow kids to take tests at home to show what they've learned,.
36:41
Which, as we know, self reporting is not always a very reliable method to measure things by.
36:47
Exactly.
36:47
New York and New Jersey require there be proctors when you take the test, but nowhere else does.
36:53
Nowhere else does.
36:54
And anyway, so the article says that, you know, homeschoolers in that case earned worse SAT scores and ended up in lower paying jobs.
37:08
His mom had no business being like, I'm gonna homeschool you.
37:11
She didn't.
37:12
She was just bored.
37:13
Yeah.
37:14
And also, she didn't do it.
37:15
She didn't do it.
37:16
She's like, I'll pull you out of school, no problem, and then did not teach him anything.
37:21
Yeah.
37:21
And so.
37:22
And kids need structure.
37:23
That's important.
37:24
And if you're an adult who isn't into giving your kids structure, psa, don't homeschool them.
37:32
Right, Exactly.
37:33
And.
37:34
And one of the issues she said, the article said, which I didn't know, was that it makes many kids vulnerable to abuse.
37:46
Not that people at school.
37:48
He wasn't.
37:49
Most aren't.
37:49
But if you are abusing your child, they tend to pull their kids out of school.
37:54
So they're not going to be seen at school with bruises or injuries.
37:58
Yes.
37:59
Which is an enormous issue.
38:01
Right.
38:02
Surrounding this.
38:03
Very bad.
38:04
It's not generally the case.
38:06
It's not just that there is a very powerful political lobby that lobbies for the homeschooling community and left alone to be left alone to just be like, listen, we're not interested in participating in your society.
38:19
You leave us out of this.
38:20
Right.
38:20
And the thing is, unfortunately, they are so powerful, have so much money that the opposing lobby that was actually advocating to have welfare checks in some situations and just other.
38:34
And testing to ensure that your child is keeping up with their peers, among so many other things, was basically just shot down.
38:43
It died in the, in the house.
38:45
And it's still the case.
38:46
Yeah, it really is still the case.
38:48
Crazy, because you would think, you know, so much of what these particular lobbyists lobby for is like, we're here for the welfare of kids and we care, you know, we care so much about our kids that we're gonna
39:00
totally upend our lives and we're gonna teach them ourselves.
39:03
And it's like, okay, so then if you're not doing anything untoward, then why not show it?
39:08
Exactly.
39:08
Why?
39:09
I think the answer is there need to be social workers, there need to be required welfare checks on the kids to make sure that A, there's not abuse, that's worst case scenario.
39:20
But B, that at the very least you're, you know, your teacher, 13 year old kid is literate, they're learning.
39:27
You know what I mean?
39:27
Right.
39:27
You want them to be learned because.
39:29
To be honest, and this might be a hot take, but I think to not let your child become literate at a certain point is abusive.
39:37
They live in a world where they're going to need to read, they're going to need certain skills if you make it impossible for them to learn, if they're incapable, that's one thing.
39:47
But if you make it impossible for them to learn these very important skills, I would argue that that's a form of abuse.
39:54
Yeah, well, you know.
39:55
Yeah.
39:56
So anyway, so that's, that's kind of what the, this, the article is about.
40:00
It's saying these are the things we need to do.
40:02
That his story kind of demonstrates that, that.
40:06
Yeah.
40:06
That there needs to be oversight.
40:08
And again, and if there's nothing weird going on, why can't I come in?
40:11
Right.
40:12
Why can't I see?
40:12
It is easy to decide in most states.
40:15
Yeah.
40:15
Well, there was one particular case that they talked about, the Turpin family, where I don't remember her name.
40:21
She was a young girl, 13 years old.
40:23
She was being horrifically abused and because her parents had pulled her out of school, there was no adult to intervene and there was no adult that was really aware of the situation because they were just isolating her.
40:36
Right.
40:36
But that, that luckily is not the,.
40:38
Not the norm at all.
40:40
That was an outlying terrible situation.
40:43
Right.
40:44
If I were speaking to another parent who was on the fence about joining Testing mom, you know what I would say to them is that you're never going to regret having done this.
40:54
You may regret not getting help because you know, you might not get that test score that you're looking for or you're going to go through a harder experience trying to help your child go through what's something you really
41:03
need professionals to help you on.
41:05
And so I think hindsight is 2020 always.
41:08
And you're really not going to regard at this opportunity.
41:11
And then there's another article that we have, and this is a mom who is, who's kind of talking on the other side.
41:21
This is called what Homeschooling Moms Don't Understand by Emile Nyazi at the Cut.
41:27
And she is talking about how now her kids are back in school and she said her 7 year old was kind of scared to go, nervous that she didn't know how to read, but they eventually got her to
41:39
go and now she's pretty happy in school.
41:43
And she's talking about how seeing her kids so happy back in school makes her realize how kind of underappreciated schools are.
41:54
Yeah.
41:55
And teachers and everything.
41:57
And she says she's seeing all these posts on TikTok, which is what you're talking about, of about 8 year olds who can't read a chapter book or recognize and the parents are like, like,.
42:08
It's fine, she'll do it in her own pace.
42:10
It's like, no, there's a reason that these milestones exist.
42:15
Right.
42:16
They are again, it's a metric.
42:18
It's a way to say, okay, my child is, is at near or below the threshold that they need to be by this point.
42:25
Yeah.
42:26
Well, and, and she's talking about, I think on TikTok there's these unschooled people who follow the unschooled philosophy which is let the child decide what they're interested in and follow their interests.
42:38
And that's a big movement on TikTok.
42:44
There can be an element of that in your homeschooling curriculum for some of the day, but the rest of it, you still need to learn how to read.
42:49
Girl.
42:50
You would think.
42:51
But she talks about how with her own kids, if she had let them take the lead, they would never have learned to read or do math because both of them struggled with it and didn't like it at first,
43:04
but now they're really good at it and they really like it.
43:07
I would have spent the day eating macaroni if it were up to me.
43:10
All day, every day.
43:11
You wouldn't have wanted to do the hard math?
43:13
No, I would have been like, I'm unschooling from this.
43:15
Right.
43:16
But.
43:16
But a lot of parents are following that, that way of schooling.
43:21
Well, again.
43:22
And how are we to know whether it's effective or not?
43:25
Because nobody's getting tested.
43:26
There's no way to measure these people's ability.
43:29
And, I mean, I wonder what the statistics are as far as, like, okay, you're homeschooled for, say, your entire educational life.
43:37
Are you going to go to college?
43:38
Well, many.
43:39
Can you be homeschooled through college?
43:41
Well, you can't, but not for college.
43:43
You have to actually go to college.
43:44
Yeah.
43:44
Because you need a degree.
43:45
But what's.
43:45
I guess that's another interesting thing.
43:47
Right?
43:47
It's like, if you don't have real evaluations or grades, I guess you still take the SAT and the act, and those results will speak for themselves, and that is all you need.
43:57
You won't have grades or anything.
43:59
But I.
44:00
I mean, then are transcripts completely meaningless?
44:03
Well, no, you know, there's a way.
44:04
There's a way, because my homeschool families have all applied to their kids to college, and they've gotten into college.
44:11
And so there is a transcript.
44:12
Well, there's not a.
44:14
Well, there.
44:14
You have to explain.
44:16
These are the courses we did, okay.
44:17
And this is what we taught them.
44:19
I mean, we put.
44:20
We put that.
44:20
We helped them put that together.
44:22
Okay?
44:22
Because this is what we were.
44:23
We what?
44:24
And even at testing, mom, what we do is, is at the end of the year, we give them.
44:29
We have them tested.
44:30
Yeah.
44:31
Not.
44:31
I mean, with a real test.
44:32
Like, we'll have them take a.
44:34
Because again, you guys are a map test.
44:37
Right.
44:37
We'll have them actually take it to.
44:39
We'll see where they are, what they've learned.
44:41
But we're trying to teach them what they're supposed to learn.
44:43
We want to make sure they learn it.
44:45
But, but parents can do that too.
44:47
You can do that on your own.
44:49
If you're a homeschooling family, there's ways you can arrange to get your kids, kids tested every year and you can see are they on grade level.
44:56
You can figure that out.
44:57
Yeah.
44:58
So if you want.
44:59
If you want to.
45:00
Yeah, sure.
45:01
But again, what if you don't?
45:03
Well, you know, your kids will suffer.
45:05
They might especially.
45:07
It depends.
45:07
You know, they could.
45:09
Not that I love taking tests and honestly, my husband was an education major and he actually said the education department didn't even offer tests because they didn't.
45:16
Yeah, they said that like it's not the most reliable way to measure things.
45:21
But again, it's just like there has to be some kind of a system for this.
45:26
Well, you know, this author says she's glad she put her kids in school.
45:32
She thinks it's definitely the right place for them, that they get a lot of encouragement and support from their peers and that's important.
45:42
And that she's worried.
45:43
You know, she says right now she sees in her social media feeds a lot of regretful parents saying, I wish I'd vaccinated my kids.
45:51
And now, now they're sorry.
45:53
But she thinks maybe someday she's going to see parents who homeschooled saying, I wish I'd actually sent them.
45:59
Is it.
46:00
Is there, there?
46:01
Actually, what I was reading too is that there is a large anti vaxx community that is the Venn diagram between anti vax and homeschooling is significant.
46:10
Well, I've overlap.
46:11
That's possible.
46:12
Yeah.
46:13
I could believe she did wonder.
46:14
I mean, are these people just like libertarians?
46:17
Do they want to just like, live off the grid and like they don't participate?
46:22
Well, it's a, It's a combination of many things.
46:24
It's.
46:25
It could be that they, they just don't want government in their business.
46:29
They want to do it their way and that's, that's a choice.
46:34
Right.
46:35
Or it could be they just think they can do better than, than school or their child has special needs, whether they're excelling, you know, at a rate that, that they can't be served in public school or, you know,
46:47
or not.
46:48
So there's a lot of reasons.
46:50
But, you know, I feel like you.
46:52
Should kind of have to justify it to someone, you know what I mean?
46:56
Like, I feel like there needs to be like a body, you know, like.
46:59
A course why you're doing this.
47:00
Well, you know, me or me.
47:02
Not a court, but maybe just, like a group of people who.
47:04
It's like, listen, you want to homeschool your kid, you've gotta, like, give me some good reasons here or also.
47:12
Oh, I forgot my point.
47:13
I had another good point.
47:15
Just about.
47:17
I was thinking about that family and how.
47:19
Oh, one thing.
47:21
You can be a convicted child abuser and still be able to homeschool your child.
47:28
There are no laws or rules against that.
47:30
Well, yeah, but you could be a convicted child abuser and have children.
47:33
Yeah.
47:34
I mean, it's like.
47:34
But then, but again, you, in these situations, in these specific circumstances, I think it is meaningful for there to be other adults around that are third party who have the child's interest.
47:48
Yes.
47:48
And not yours.
47:50
Yes.
47:50
You know what I mean?
47:51
I just think, like, again, like, what are we doing?
47:54
Right?
47:54
No, that's crazy.
47:55
It can be.
47:56
It is.
47:57
Yeah.
47:57
I mean, there should be, like, a child abuser registry.
48:01
Well, there is.
48:02
Is there?
48:03
Well, there's a, there's a sex offender registry.
48:05
Oh, but there's not a child abuser registry.
48:08
Well, some kinds of abuse do end up up on that registry, but.
48:12
Yeah, but I know, but if you're not ultimately convicted of child abuse, but.
48:15
Even if you are, you can still homeschool your child.
48:19
There is no law.
48:20
Is that, did they talk?
48:21
That was in one of the articles.
48:22
Oh, really?
48:22
Okay.
48:23
Which.
48:24
Okay, man.
48:26
I know.
48:26
I, I.
48:27
What is this?
48:28
Yeah, I don't know.
48:28
I don't.
48:29
I kind of sort of remember that.
48:30
Yeah, that I, I read that.
48:31
I was kind of like.
48:32
Well, that stuck out to me because again, that just, again, you gotta justify it.
48:36
And you have to, you don't necessarily have to be a teacher because again, all teachers are, are people.
48:41
Right.
48:41
Anybody can learn to teach.
48:44
Right.
48:44
But if you're, like, known to be bad to children, why are we giving you opportunities to, like, hurt them?
48:51
Well, that's crazy.
48:53
I would hope that they would send their kids to school.
48:56
You hope.
48:56
But, but you just never know, as someone in that situation might not trust the, you know, institutions.
49:03
Yeah.
49:04
So it's because they're bad people.
49:06
Obviously.
49:07
You should be in jail.
49:08
Well, that's if they're, you know, and there's a lot of, of cases of people being accused of, of child abuse that then they're vindicated.
49:15
So again, I'm talking about convicts.
49:17
I'm talking about people who are convicted in a court of law by a jury of their peers.
49:22
Okay.
49:22
Not just people with allegations.
49:24
Because again, like, the world is crazy.
49:26
People go through divorces and they say terrible things about each other.
49:28
So again, if you're convicted, you can't, you shouldn't.
49:32
Like somebody needs to be like, no, you can't be.
49:34
You can't be teaching your child well.
49:36
Anyway, so.
49:37
Okay, and then the very last, the very last article that we read was about a New York Times reporter who went to the same convention that I went to, only she went to a regional one and this one
49:55
was taking place in Round Rock, Texas, which is near Austin.
49:59
And she's talking about what it has been like.
50:05
And she says that, you know, they bring together families who are part of America's fastest growing and political forceful homeschooling movement.
50:21
And so while the parents, while the children are playing, I guess there's a place for the children to play.
50:27
The parents go to sessions about designing Bible driven curricula.
50:32
That's what I was talking about.
50:33
The math, Bible driven mathematics and helping their kids safely navigate our sex hyper sexualized culture.
50:42
And they talk about how do you install more patriotism into your kids and whether or not they should be sent to college where some of the speakers say they're going to be exposed to left wing values.
50:56
How do you shelter your kids from the world for their whole life?
50:58
Well, some people are.
51:00
They do try.
51:01
You know, they want to.
51:03
That's.
51:03
They want to keep them sheltered from, you know, they want them to understand their point of view.
51:09
They're thinking, there are parents.
51:11
That's what they.
51:12
I mean, that's a big thing today in America.
51:14
Totally.
51:14
It's huge.
51:16
But you just wonder like, who does it serve?
51:18
You know, I feel like you, you don't.
51:21
I don't know, like a kid who's lived under this their whole life, they go out into the real world, college or no college, like they're gonna discover things.
51:30
You know what I mean?
51:31
Right.
51:31
Eventually they will learn.
51:33
And I mean, I remember our no Contact episode.
51:35
There was that one family who.
51:37
She was like, I just felt like I'd been lied to my whole life.
51:40
Right, right.
51:41
She.
51:41
And she was very angry at her parents over that.
51:43
When she did finally go out into.
51:45
The world and like, it's not that scary.
51:47
Right, Right, exactly.
51:48
Not everyone who's not exactly like us is bad.
51:51
Yeah, no.
51:52
Well.
51:52
But they're trying to.
51:54
As long as they can, they're trying to.
51:56
They don't want them exposed to things that they find object such as, and this is one of the quotes from the article that the human species evolved as opposed to being created by God, they don't want them to
52:10
even be exposed to that concept or that our founding fathers were fallible and others are there because they just want to give their kids more one to one attention that they can't get in the classroom.
52:21
I just think it's crazy.
52:23
Like those are ideas that are considered woke up.
52:28
Like I just feel like that that whole spectrum has just changed so much.
52:33
Like these are ideas that were pretty widely accepted for a very long time and now we're like, those ideas are evil.
52:43
And it's kind of like really.
52:45
Well, there are people, that's what they believe and that's what they want their children to learn.
52:51
And you're not gonna get that in a public school.
52:53
So that's why you have to do that at home.
52:58
And the article says now that 6% of parents are homeschooling their kids now, and this is in both left and right leaning states.
53:10
And that if you start following tradwives like we talked about tradwives, we've started doing some books on that.
53:19
We're gonna.
53:21
So we've got that.
53:22
And if you are following that on TikTok, you will also start getting fed articles about homeschool because it seems.
53:30
Yeah, the benefits.
53:32
And that's part of the reason, you know, that that trend has taken off so much, I think.
53:40
And they introduce us in this article to many different parents who are homeschooling for so many different reasons.
53:47
One says she wants to control what her daughter learns and she's upset that the public schools don't teach the Bible worldview like the creation story.
53:57
Another is upset because how public schools teach history and they demonize our heroes like Washington and Jefferson.
54:07
Another parent doesn't think learning is just possible in a big classroom.
54:12
And he's upset that his eighth grader got points taken off his art project because it was sloppy.
54:17
Listen, subjective.
54:19
That's very subjective.
54:20
Yeah.
54:20
Another was upset about how health and science is taught and you know, just, you know, wants to impart her own beliefs on her children.
54:30
So.
54:31
Oh, and one talked about her crunchy friends who sent their kids to college where they were taking antibiotics.
54:37
And that was wrong.
54:38
Okay, again, I have an issue with this girl.
54:41
Are you a doctor?
54:42
Well, she was like, unnecessary antibiotics.
54:45
I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, did you have time to go to medical school between now and when your kid went to college?
54:50
But people have, you know, these beliefs, these strong beliefs and, and that's what.
54:54
Misinformation is, a very scary illness.
54:58
Well, and I'm, you know, I Will say this.
55:00
I'm.
55:01
I'm not saying.
55:02
Look, I don't believe.
55:03
I don't agree with what a lot.
55:04
Of these people are saying.
55:05
Obviously, I don't.
55:07
And.
55:07
But, you know, the schools are not perfect either.
55:10
No, absolutely not.
55:11
I can see you kind of being so torn as a parent.
55:14
Absolutely.
55:15
And saying, gosh, maybe I could do better.
55:17
And if I'm home and I.
55:19
I think I can do better, I might make that choice.
55:21
Totally.
55:22
I think it's interesting.
55:23
I really struggled in school, and I'm now finding myself on the side where I'm being like, send your kid to school, and I hated school.
55:32
But at the same time, again, there's a lot of things, I think, being in a school and in a large social environment that are very meaningful to the learning process.
55:43
Perhaps not academically, but I think being a part of a class and a part of a grade and, like, slowly getting to know all these people and being in these vast and constant social situations with a very wide
55:59
variety of people, I think that that is important.
56:02
I think you learn more from that.
56:05
From these soft skills, to me, as far as I'm concerned, are much more important than hard, hard skills.
56:11
And that's what you got out of school.
56:12
Yeah.
56:12
I mean, you learn to compromise.
56:14
You learn to have conflict and disagree and then come back together.
56:18
You know, I think being in constant contact with other kids.
56:22
I mean, we saw it during the pandemic.
56:24
So many kids are emotionally and psychologically struggling because they missed out on these very important core years of social development.
56:33
And I'm curious to see, in 10, 15 years, you know, when these kids are fully grown up and out of college, like.
56:39
Like, what are the things that they never learned?
56:43
Right.
56:43
You know, or that are still sort of lagging in because they miss that really crucial thing.
56:48
Yeah.
56:49
And again, there are homeschool situations where they are exposed to other kids.
56:53
But, you know, I mean, the largest program we could find was, like, 85 people.
56:58
Oh, there's.
56:59
There's probably more.
57:00
I'm sure there are more.
57:00
And I think there's lots of local groups you can join once you homeschool that other.
57:06
But even still, that is going to be significantly smaller, a smaller sample size of people to be exposed to than if you're in a regular public or even private school.
57:16
Yeah.
57:16
And, like, I don't know, the world is large.
57:19
You're gonna come into contact with all sorts of people.
57:21
And I think the fewer kinds of people you learn to interact with when you're young, the more difficult it's gonna become for you as you get older.
57:30
Yeah.
57:30
Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens to kids who are homeschooled and they grow up.
57:36
How do they do?
57:37
And I think some kids are going to do great.
57:40
Totally.
57:40
It's just going to depend on, you know, what their homeschool experience was like.
57:44
Yeah.
57:45
And.
57:46
But that, that range is very broad.
57:48
It's a broad range and I wish there was.
57:51
I really do agree with the article that talked about how there does need to be more oversight.
57:56
Yeah.
57:57
You know, just to make sure people are learning.
58:00
Kids are learning what they need to.
58:01
Learn because it is unfair to the child to not teach them enough so that they can survive when they outgrow your home.
58:13
Yes.
58:13
You know, I just, I think that that's like cruel whether it's intentional or not.
58:18
Right.
58:18
I'm sure there are plenty of well meaning parents whose kids are just still struggling because again, like, being a teacher is a learned skill.
58:27
It's not.
58:27
I, I'm sure there are very few people who are just natural teachers, you.
58:32
Know, especially in all those subjects that we have to learn when we go through school.
58:36
I know.
58:36
I mean, even teachers in school typically specialize in one or two things.
58:40
You know, you, the Renaissance mom, just.
58:42
Out here in your house knowing all of math, science, you know, I mean,.
58:47
I'm like, go off, girl.
58:48
What are you doing in your house?
58:50
If that's the case, like, go off, become a philosopher or something.
58:54
Yeah.
58:55
It's hard to know how to do all those different.
58:56
Luckily there are research resources you can do that.
58:59
You know, it's like today you can get a, you can bring in a teacher, like, like call a company like mine and bring in a teacher, or you can find a local group that has a teacher or there's
59:11
a lot.
59:12
Of ways to do it.
59:12
Yeah.
59:13
So.
59:13
But I love doing teaching esque things with my daughter.
59:17
But my daughter is one year old.
59:19
Right.
59:19
You know, there is a limit to my abilities.
59:21
And to be honest, that limit's going to hit when she like three.
59:24
And then I'd be like, everything you know, is everything I know.
59:28
I, I think it'll go.
59:29
And I think you need to surpass me at this stage.
59:32
But you're sending her to school.
59:33
Yeah, absolutely, I'm sending her.
59:35
You know what, I'm sending her to public school.
59:37
I hope I don't change my mind, but like, I'm moving to a suburb where there are going to be good public schools and public schools that are not huge.
59:45
So like, I don't know.
59:46
I feel like she'll figure it out.
59:47
Right, well, we'll figure it out.
59:49
I mean, as we go through it.
59:50
But, you know, we'll see how she does.
59:52
And if she needs extra help, she'll get extra help.
59:54
I mean, from you.
59:56
Right?
59:56
Or.
59:56
Well, I will help you find the extra help.
59:59
I may not be the teacher, but I'll help you figure it out.
1:00:01
Yeah, Grandma Teen's going to teach you everything you need to know about algebra and about the 17 quantum laws.
1:00:08
Well, I'll teach.
1:00:09
I'll teach you the.
1:00:10
I'll help you find resources when the time comes.
1:00:13
Yeah, that's what we'll do.
1:00:14
Yeah.
1:00:15
But anyway, it was an interesting.
1:00:16
It was an interesting.
1:00:18
All these articles.
1:00:19
Very interesting topic.
1:00:20
Topic.
1:00:20
Yeah.
1:00:21
And again, it's something that's becoming more mainstream.
1:00:23
I'm curious to see how much more mainstream it becomes in the coming decades.
1:00:28
I think it'll become even more mainstream.
1:00:30
I agree.
1:00:30
I agree.
1:00:31
Because again, I just think we're living in a world where, like, everyone thinks they can do it themselves.
1:00:35
Right.
1:00:35
And you know what?
1:00:36
I am a person.
1:00:37
I like to trust the experts.
1:00:39
Personally, I'm not a DIY education type of girly.
1:00:42
Okay.
1:00:43
But if you are, honestly, more power to you.
1:00:45
Just like, I don't know, make sure you're doing it right for your kids sake.
1:00:49
Yeah.
1:00:50
Don't just, like, wing it.
1:00:51
Well, the parents I've met who are doing it, I think are doing a good job, but I'm working with people.
1:00:55
Well, they're outsourcing it.
1:00:56
They're outsourcing the parts they don't know.
1:00:58
Yeah, yeah.
1:00:59
So that.
1:00:59
Yeah.
1:00:59
So I'm very impressed.
1:01:01
So be honest with yourself about what you do and do not know.
1:01:03
Right, Right.
1:01:04
For the sake of your child.
1:01:06
I think so.
1:01:06
Yes.
1:01:07
Okay.
1:01:08
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Other People's Parenting.
1:01:12
And we'll see you next week.