Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / All the Overlandy Things We Don't Need: A Gear Confessional

Transcript

All the Overlandy Things We Don't Need: A Gear Confessional · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hell and welcome to the Overland DRIL podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady. I'm here with my illustrious co host, Matt Scott.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I am here, and we are.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: We're going to.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Start off with a rant warning because this is pretty
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: much I suspect.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a big gatekeeper and a bit ranty,
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: and so.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: We're going to have some fun today talking about the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: things that we're told that we need to overland but
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: that we.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Actually don't actually need, which is essentially.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Everything given the fact it's a that's weird, given the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: fact that people have traveled around the world on a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: stock motorcycle.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know, one of the conversations
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: we were having before we did this is that we've
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: realized this huge, kind of growing divide between people who
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: are actually traveling that I call overlanders. Sure, and for
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: the purposes of this conversation, it's the guys that aren't
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: doing it full time and aren't doing it often that.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Have those things that they need. I need so much stuff.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And that's the reason why we wanted to do the podcast,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is that if you look at the Instagram feeds, it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: always these very overbuilt vehicles. It's all of this pressure
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to purchase all of these things. And one of the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: goals twenty years ago when we started all of this stuff,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: and you've been involved with it for over a decade
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: with the content that we produce, and the goal has
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: always been to reinforce that travel is the goal. So
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, but I guess like the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: first checkpoint along the way is to ask yourself, am
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I spending more money on the vehicle than I am
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: on traveling?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And maybe make that just if that's like the one
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: thing that everybody takes away from this conversation of because.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Think about it.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: If somebody's got tons of cash and they want to
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: have a super fancy vehicle, that's fine. Yeah, but they're
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: at least they're able to still travel the way that
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: they want to travel for sure.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: And I'll call myself out here, like most listeners know,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: I travel in an earth rummer.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I have a wine rack.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: I have the fancy lights that we're gonna we're gonna
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: kind of riff on. I have a lot of this stuff.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I like to think that we use it, but but
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you also know you don't need it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I don't need it. Yeah, And I think that that's
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: for me too.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I mean if I look back at my earliest all
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of my earliest overland project vehicles, they were terrible. I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: mean they were so overloaded, overdone. I remember, they weren't
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: like terrible.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: They were pretty.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: We've been on Instagram lightly, they were pretty. They were
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: pretty terrible. If I look at my at my Tacoma,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it was like just as bad as all the ones
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of today where I was way over payload. Yeah, I
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: had I don't remember the brand of the lights, but
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I had like four spot beams on like this, I
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: have that pre Runner rock, this big pre Runner light rack. Yeah,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: it was terrible. I mean I like I drilled through
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the roof of my truck and like had to build
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: in all of this structure for lights that I turned
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: on for a couple of photographs, Like they were never necessary.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So I just think back on so many of my
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: own projects, and then recently my vehicles basically are staying stock.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Like the AT four put down a nice suspension, just
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: something that helped give me a little bit of lift
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: and some better payload, and you didn't even have anything
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: on that. I had nothing use the top out of it.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't do anything to the car, so I put
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: some nice tires on it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: That was it. You know, it's interesting.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: So obviously we've we've both been in the like the
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: traveler overland community for quite a while, and a lot
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: of this podcast started. I occasionally rant about things on
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: my Instagram and again, Matt, you never rant, Oh yeah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I did, oh yeah, yeah, And it was funny. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: all of these like like legitimate traveler friends start messaging
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: me and I have started having all these amazing conversations
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: on how you just don't need this stuff and how
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: how a lot of the way people are building it's
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: a fascinating thing to me. So like the way, let's
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: just say there's the travelers and the non travelers. The
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: way the non travelers are building their vehicles, who honestly
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: are the people who have kind of the lion's share
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: of influence. They honestly get made fun of by the travelers.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: You know, you see this like built Tacoma with long
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: travel and six or seven lights on the roof and
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: a pillar lights and light bars and the bumper and
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: fog light LEDs.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: If you're like I want it to become a cliche.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Let's say it that way is like people are just
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: building things in such a certain way that they actually
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: have no use for.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: That is like very interesting. Like when I.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: See you think it's social pressure, do you think I
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: think it's I think it's a lot of social pressure.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: And I think I think that we should dive into this.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: You know, let's look at like the Instagram thing. So
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: you know, there's there's the influencers, friends with a lot
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: of these people, great people, but how it works is
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: they'll get approached by lighting company, a suspension company, B
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: or whatever, and a lot of these guys are getting paid.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: There's there's influencers that all of the people listening to
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: this podcast probably follow that I know are making one
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars from just like to run this widget.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And it's crazy and and it starts to influence this
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: and create this new norm of what people think is
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: reality and that that's what they need. But it's really
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: just marketing companies have and like, hey I did it.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: I did it too with Max tracks. But you know
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: you're you're leveraging audiences to although you don't pay people
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: to run We've never paid somebody. I mean, we sponsor
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: X Overlin. But well, no, that's advertising, that's advertising. Yeah,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: we we always had a thing to do, influencer marketing.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't again, I don't. I don't know
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: what the new direction for max Tracts will do. But
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: we had a policy of just like authentic people, you know,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: using this stuff. But now there's there's the overland market's
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: big and people are actually getting paid to have these products.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: And that's fine.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: People have to make a living and you know, photography
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: is hard and creating this content is work, but it's
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: important for people to recognize reality and advertisement. So you
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: start seeing very complex electrical systems popping up on every
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: influencer's feed and now like that's kind of the norm
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: and the trend, and it's very stylish to talk about
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: those types of things.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Do you really need them?
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Like that's that's the question is And this time myself,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: there's need and then there's want. Like if you're just
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: a dude that wants to sit in a scaradge and
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: build a truck because that's what you enjoy, cool, nothing
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: wrong with that, nothing wrong with that, Like totally get it.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: But there's a lot of people that are making these
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: modifications and trying to justify them under the pretense of
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: actually using them.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: And maybe the key to it is make sure that
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: when you go onto Instagram, look up a bunch of
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: travelers that are somewhere in the world. Yeah, so look
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: at Dan Grek or you know, look at Graham and Luisa,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: look at they have some modifications on their vehicles, but
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: they are very very minimal in how they're modified. And
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: then there's an equal number of them that are traveling
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: around the world in stock Land cruisers or I mean there's.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: People traveling around the world in minivans now, like are
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: on motor like I always love I always love the
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: motorcycle people because you just can't put that much crap
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: on a bike.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So it's so pure to me. Yeah, and it works
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and they go around the world. Yeah, I think when
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: we look at Instagrams, there's nothing wrong with following the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: fancy four runner build, but also follow the family or
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: like look at Ray and Mary Anne Heiland. You know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: they go the entire length of the Silk Road in
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: a nineteen fifties, you know.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Series fifty four, Series one.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: I think that they restored on the road, like their
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: rearmain seal was a leather hat from India.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: That's in India.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, exactly, And they didn't need any of
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the things that we're going to talk about, and they
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: had an incredible experience as a family. If you look
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: at some of these Forerunners or some of these Tacomas,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: they're one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty thousand dollars vehicles.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: If you had bought a motorcycle, you could have gone
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: bought the motorcycle, ridden around the world, had an incredible experience.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: You spent less money. You bring it, you brought up.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Like the social pressure, it's almost like people are competitively.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Humans are competitive creatures, sure, and we're trying to introduce
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: competition into overlanding or something like I have to have
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: this or this guy has this on I'm going to
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: get more likes.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I now.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Get ads for enthusiasts building their trucks just so they
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: can get more Like I've started taking screenshots of it
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: because I just like I don't believe that, like Bob's Forerunner,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: like he's running ads to try and get get his
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: numbers up, to pump his numbers up, because that's what's
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: like valuable, and that's that's like the concerning thing for me.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Isn't that just a vanity metric at the end of
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the day. Yeah, you know, like the number of followers
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: is very much a vanity metric. Yeah, and unfortunately larger.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: But it's just it's.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Just interesting, like it's really split, like there's the travelers
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: and the non travelers, and this is a podcast for
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: the travelers. Sure, this is for people that I don't
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: think that you have to drive to, you know, the
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: Skeleton Coast or something like. We're not saying that it
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you're just going out.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, we could never leave your state. You leave
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: your state, I mean in Arizona, you could spend so much.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Spend a lifetime, a lifetime, right, do the exploring again?
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe coming back to asking, am I spending more money
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: on the vehicle than I am on my experiences in life?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: If you start with that one, it's probably a pretty
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: good balance. Yeah, Like I'm spending more money on fuel
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and buying groceries and getting my kids the hats and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: you know, headlamps that they need in order to go camping,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, like are you spending money on the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: actual experience or are you spending money on a set
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of lights that you'll probably never turn on other than
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to take some photo.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: It's interesting.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I had I had a you know, it's Baja seems
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: to be like this very aspirational, Yeah, location for people
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: to go in North America, and it's it's great, like
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: busy now, but it's great. And it seems that that's
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: the impetus for a lot of these things. I need
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: long travel because I'm going to Baja. I need these
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: lights because I'm going to Baja. One like nine out
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: of ten travelers I ask, do you drive a night
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: in Baja's if I'm.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Going to get beer? It's not a good idea. It's
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: not a good idea.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's donkeys on the road, and I mean people
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: think it's like bandidos or something, and like that's it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: so rare that it's like it's the fact that there's
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: like a donkey on the road, or junk people or
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a drunk yeah person.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: I post this Instagram rat and I have all these
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: like desert racers that are like yeah, like we see
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: these vans with five six seven lights above the windshield.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I'm like like, yeah, we use that stuff when we're
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: doing one hundred and twenty mile an hour in a
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: trophy truck or you know, class whatever because we run
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: out of light. That van is not going to go
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: over twenty five mile an hour off road lest a
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: pan hit you in the back of the head, like
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: like there's a house.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: There, dude.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: It's literally a modification that you only would need to
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: go fast and the vehicle can't do The vehicle is
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: incapable of doing it. So it's think it's it's modifications
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: like that that I look at and I'm just like,
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: where is this coming from?
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And why is it such a fashion trend?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Because when something isn't I mean, I'm going to generalize here,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: but if it's doesn't have a practical purpose, it's probably
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: not unfair to call it a fashionable thing. You see
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: this with so much stuff these days, and like how
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: many you know, sun fitted rotopath out there that have
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: never had.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Fuel or water in them? Yeah? I don't know that.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I've never liked the idea of like having water on
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the side of your vehicle. Oh hey, do you want
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to come overlanding in Moab with us? And I'm like, uh, wheeling,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go, We're gonna go four wheeling, Like, that's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: totally fine, sounds fun, it's fascinating.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So the lights is a good one. Let's start with
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the lights.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Oh actually, we decided the first thing that you don't
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: need that people tell you need, that you don't need
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to go overlanding as an Instagram account. Yeah yeah, Like
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: people have actually gone entirely around the world and no
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: one has ever known other than their families that get
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: like a text message update with some photos.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So selfish, that's so great.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Like, I love the community that Instagram has brought to
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: the big time.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I totally enjoy it.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: But you don't need it, and you don't need to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: broadcast your trips. It can just be about you and
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: your family. Yeah, you can make it this personal journey
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of discovery and no one ever needs to know that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you did it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, we've both been in this
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: space for a while. On my side, I've been interviewing
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: travelers for ten year years and I have seen so
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: many people ruin their trip because they're not actually like like,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna I'm going to say this. Maybe it's controversial,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: but deep down inside, it doesn't feel like they're doing
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: it for themselves. It feels like they're doing it to
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: prove it to somebody or to gain notoriety, get their
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: fifteen minutes of fame, and they spend more time documenting
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the trip for other people to bear witness to, to say, hey,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I've done this than they actually do enjoying their trip. Yeah,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: And I think that's that's the first thing that kind
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: of goes wrong, Like if you're going through all this
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: effort and it's not easy to travel overland around the world,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Like it's.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Not easy to go through borders, it's not easy to
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: do these things.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: So I think it's it's again, it's like that balance
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of like are you giving yourself enough time to enjoy
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the experience? Are you not, like you said, spending forty
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: hours a week for one thousand people on Instagram, Like
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of work, Yeah, it could be doing
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: other thing.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Really, it really can be. And money to travel, like
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: that's just a we.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Don't live in a utie Hopeio where on the phone
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: where you can see your screen time? It is such
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: an incredible tool and it was the reason why I
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: took Instagram and everything off of my personal phone is
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: because I realized I was spending hours a day, you.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Habitually just start going to the app. I will delete.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: My thing is I will delete the app when I'm busy.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I can always redownload it, or it doesn't get rid
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: of my account. I can check it on my computer.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: But I've now started putting it in a folder because
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: it's that simple second step. You don't see it and
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: habitually click it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I think for me, I only put them on there
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: when I'm on the road because I don't otherwise if
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I'm in the office and stuff. It just sits on
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the iPad because I want to have it be difficult
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to get on and start to scroll. Yeah, and I've
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: gained so much time back and I've been able to
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: use that for my health or to read during the day,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and those are things.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: That I love more than being on social media. All right.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So that was the first thing, is you don't actually
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: need an Instagram account around the world. The next one,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and we've talked to about lights a little bit, but
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the next one on my list is long travel. So
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it's interesting how because it's extremely expensive. I'man and extremely
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: if you go onto Instagram. It's very common with non
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: traveling overlanders. Yeah, some of these long travel suspension kits
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: are seven eight nine thousand dollars. That is enough money
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: to drive all the way to Panama and ship back.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: You can do that for ten thousand dollars.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: And again it's this split between the traveling overlanders and
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: the non traveling overlanders, Like, I don't know how else
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: to politely say it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and our hope is that someone that's listening that
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: sees all of this pressure to get a long travel
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: suspension and all of the arguments that these influencers make
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of why you should, and of course all of those
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: arguments are entirely false. You do not need You can
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: drive around the world in a stock Land Cruiser. You
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: can drive around the world in the stock Tacoma. You
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: can do a lot of challenging backroads in both of
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: those vehicles and never modify them at all. I think
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: for us, it's about dispelling this myth that you do.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: The reality is that this suspension systems are incredibly expensive,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: they're incredibly complex, they cannot be serviced internationally or in
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the field. So if you blow out that crazy coil
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: over remote reservoir whatever and you're down in Honduras, you're
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: not going to get a replacement. However, if you have
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: a Tacoma or a Forerunner, there is a Proto one
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: twenty or Prota one fifty that'll swap directly over with
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: you take out, you take out the strut, and you
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: put it into your car and you're back on the road.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Same thing with the Tacoma. But these crazy suspensions, how
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: in the world do you fix them? Well, so let's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: talk about them, like how we got here. I think
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: as maybe where we can add some value is.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Off road industry mid early two thousands, pre running was
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: the whatever overlining is now. It was like pre running
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: and rock crawling. You ended up with all of these
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: companies two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine who
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: started buying for runners, who started buying Tacomas, who started
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: buying this. There was customers, and there was a myth
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: created that you needed these items to go off road
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: through again very you know, clever marketing and leveraging, influential
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: people in the industry, and it wasn't that long ago
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: that like that definitely wasn't overlanding, like I remember when
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: the cream of the crop was like old man Emu suspension,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: because it is it still is but it was.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: A durable and you know, they had way to go.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: They had different spring rates for adjusting ride height with
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: different cargo capacities, and that was always kind of like
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: the gold standard. And now it's like I need to have,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: you know, these unible upper control arms.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: They just squeak, like.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: The polyurethane rattle and squeak the polyarthane bushings and the
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: unibl It works in a race truck where it's going
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: to have a five hundred mile service life and then
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: they're going to rebuild all of it. Like the thing
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: that you drive back and forth to work. You don't
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: want it to.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Be squeaking and rattling on the one oh one for
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: your entire commute.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I understand that you need to you know, if you're
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: going to lift your vehicle, you need to adjust your
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: geometries and of.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Course, but again, lift the vehicle an inch or two
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and then put a slightly taller tire on it, an
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: inch or two taller tire and you're done. It's like
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: it's going to take you everywhere you want to go,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and you're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars less.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So there's nothing wrong with a suspension upgrade to match
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the payload that you have or the weight that you
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: need in the vehicle level the vehicle. Provide yourself with
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit more ground clearance if that's important to you.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing even wrong with premium suspension. So instead
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of going with the bypass, remote reservoir, long travel, with
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the hydraulicjounts and the upper control arms and the wide
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: track and the additional CV, just go with a nice
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: BP fifty one or or like an eyebox, or just go.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: With like a Yeah, there's a lot of brands. They're
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: simple and serviceable. Yeah, they're like seven hundred bucks. Yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: they're like to affordable.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: The Mojave Road is not a racecourse.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially not a race course like that would actually
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: be a great bumper sticker.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the reality of it is that national forest,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: most public lands that are when you're on a dirt road,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: most of them have speed limits of twenty five miles
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: an hour. Yeah, so if you're going faster than twenty
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: five miles an hour, you're breaking the law and you're
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: endangering the other recreationists that are out there with you.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: And there's there's this hole, there's this whole movement.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Like if you want to drive really really fast off
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: road through the desert, have you ever heard of desert
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: racing exactly?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You can actually do that.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can go by like for you could
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: get into desert racing and like a Volkswagen bug.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I mean look at like class.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Emmy Hall just ran the Hoopti class at the mids
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: four hundred. She's into that, into that Miata maybe ten grand. Yeah,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: that is the cost of suspension on you know some
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: of these on one corner on one corner on some.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Of these trucks.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have that disposable in the go racing,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: do something different. But we're making these overlandings hot. The
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: off road industry changed. This was the new trend. Yeah,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and all of these rock crawling companies and desert racing
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: companies and this and that and pre runner guys, they
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: all jumped on this bandwagon.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: So now like the American overland truck is like the
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: suspensions desert racer, the you know, the gearings rock crawler.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: It's got thirty seven's on it. It has trophy truck
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: lights like, it has all of these things that were
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: never never really or.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Needed to give it. Yeah. Sure.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: The only time that I've ever had to have an
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: extremely modified vehicle is in the high latitudes. So like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: if you're crossing Greenland, you got to have forty fours.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You're not going to make it. Yeah, you have to
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: run it what three psi? Yeah or less?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were many days that we ran less than that.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: You just don't need a heavily modified vehicle. I mean
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the seventy series trucks that we used for E seven
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: they had a fifty millimeter lift, Like they went from
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: a two thirty five two thirty five eighty five ye
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to a two fifty five eighty five.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: That was it. Like, same exact setup I put on
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: my troop.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And it worked like it worked everywhere in the world,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: including the Canning Stock route and challenging terrain. The only
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: place that didn't work was Antarctica. We had to put
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: on big tires.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: That was it. Yeah, so kind of needed little pizza
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: cutters on this. Now is it gonna work? It is
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: gonna work. Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that we've covered the long travel, save the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: ten grand put it in your college.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: But that's awesome, Go buy a race truck. Yeah exactly. Okay,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So the next thing we have on our list is
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the blocks.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Oh God, I hate them like I love them because
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: they're they're this like very technical, Like I see the appeal,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: and I think we should.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Although we have both had them, like I had Hutchinson's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: because I wanted them forever very few. Yeah, and they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: were the worst wheels I've ever had in my life.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I could not get them balanced despite the effort. Yeah,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: did you ever get yours balanced? I figured out how
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: to balance.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Okay. There's two kinds of beadlocks, right.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: The Hutchinsons that that Scott and I are talking about
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: are an actual proper beadlock. They capture the inner and
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: outer bead yes, and they have a three piece beadlock
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: so that one portion of the wheel has a seal
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: in it and actually unbolts, so you could PLoP the
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: tire on. An insert actually goes into it, and then
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the face of the wheel sandwiches it together.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Yep. For simplification, that's how it works. Then there's beadlocks.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: That provide on the outside lip a little additional grip surface, right,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, they just prevent the outside of the tire
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: from rolling off. There's no protection on the inside if
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you're going to run beadlocks, run an actual badlock, don't
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: just put up Well.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Some of them do.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Some of them do have the outer beadlocks. They do
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: capture the entire bead of the time, but.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: How are they capturing the inside? Like what's there's a
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: face pushing in.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: There's a face and then the outer ring clamps it
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to the outer face of the wheel. But to your point,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: the inner bead is not retained, so it's half beadlocked anyway,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like half locked. It is in the area that you
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: needed the most, because when you're coming up against a rock,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you're pressing up against a rock, it's going to be
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: trying to dbad the outer rim part of the rim.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Or if you're turning on sand and snow or at
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: high speed on the dirt at low pressures, all of
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: that pressure is put on the outer bead most of it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Here's what I've learned about beadlocks is when we went
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: to tuck tiak Tuk this summer we needed to rotate tires,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: we couldn't find anybody to touch it because they were beadlocks,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: even though they were DOT compliant beadlocks. I mean, the
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: US military runs these particular things. Not a single tire
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: shop in Canada or Alaska that we I mean, I'm
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: sure that there would have been some guy or whatever,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: but you're passing through your traveling.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And you end up with who you end up with.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: If you go to Canadian tire, they're not going to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: touch it. Wouldn't touch it, wouldn't touch it.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: They were also continental mpts and some nasty things like
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: definitely could have found I could have found somebody, but
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: you couldn't just like roll in easy, you know. So
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: serviceability for those is questionable and they require a lot
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: more maintenance than people think. The one failure that I've
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: had with a block is because I didn't do that
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: every five hundred mile torque check on the bolts, and
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: I had some bolt.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Heads break off. It took me a while instant flat. Yeah,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it took me a while.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: When we were back from this trip and we replaced
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: the tires. And this isn't to comment on the shop
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: that did it, but it took them multiple times to
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: get it right because they're just so finicky. Everything's got
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: to be perfect. You know, you have a you're trying
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: to sandwich this this wheel face into the inner ring
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: and sometimes that the O ring comes out of its channel.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: You know, it's brutal. It's brutal. It's brutal.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: They take a lot of work, and I want I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: wanted them so badly. Yeah, my g Wagon, and I
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: could not wait to get them off, Like I could
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: not get them to balance daily driver, you know, like
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: driving around Prescott it was fine, driving off road, it
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: was amazing. But they were super heavy, they were super expensive.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So there, My g Wagon didn't have a lot of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: power or big breaks like yours did, so like it
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: stopped poorly, it accelerated even worse. My last g Wagon
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: had smaller breaks and less horsepower. Yeah, that's true, and
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: it had beadlocks do as we say. Well, that's the
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: thing though, Like the reason why we're saying all of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: this stuff is I have literally made every single one
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of these mistakes.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Everything on this list. I have screwed up royally.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And that's why I'm I'm thinking, like how many trips
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: did I not take, or how many experiences did I
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: give up to have some or even the time it
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: takes to put this stuff on. It's like it all
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: it's takes takes, it takes something from it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm getting so tired of just managing all of
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: these systems on a vehicle.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, beadlocks, they they do have their place in
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: extreme rock crawling. They are cool. We totally agree that
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: they're cool. They look great, But even when we were
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: running at two psi on forty fours in Antarctica, we
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: did not have bead locks. They use like a special
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: kind of mounting fluid that creates a little bit of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: adhesion as it dries interest and then there are new
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: wheel designs method for example has They're not affiliated with
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the podcast.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It's just that they.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Have trails bead grip technology where they have tighter tolerances
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to the tire so slightly oversized, so it puts more
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: pressure on it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And then it has like this little scalloping along the
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: surface that creates some additional grip.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I just I cannot see somebody traveling overland that would
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: need more than that, because they don't need it to
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: begin with. But it's completely it's a completely passive technology.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: It doesn't add any weight. And here's the other thing too.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I have had tires come off the bead absolutely, like
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: multiple times in my travels. I would say less than
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: five times. It is never difficult to get it back on.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Like you clean out the wheel, you run a ratchet
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: strap around the center of the carcass, you tighten it
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: up so it starts to force the beads out, and
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: then you spray some water on it and you kind
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: of shake the tire back and forth as you're adding air,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and it's like next thing, you know.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And how many of those times are in sand, full throttle,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: full lot, trying to get a cool photo.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably most of them. One that comes to mind
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: specifically that was that was that with a heavy two
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: hundred series land Cruiser. It's just not a big deal
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: when it happens, and then it's something that you learn
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: or you just put on your spare. You take it
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: to the next tire shop you see and they fix
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: it for you. Yeah, this is not a big deal.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Let's let's use Baha for example.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: There is a tire shop every there's more tire shops
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: that's right. Like there's a little Yantia's like right there,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and there's usually a great taco shop right next door.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You stop, you get your tire fixed, you have a taco.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Life is fantastic. So that's that's beadlocks, all right. Do
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: have lights next?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: People love their lights though, they just like them like
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: it's a safety thing.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: It's a safety thing, is why you have to have them.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: You have to be able to see, you have to yes,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: So I started I started actually thinking about this, and
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I don't drive at night, like generally speaking, I'm exploring
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: during the day, I'm driving from A to B and
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: you know, when you're traveling and you're camping. Yeah, So
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: like I do think like scene lights, like a like
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a light on the trucks, or backup lights or backup light,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Like I think that that stuff's incredibly useful.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: But why does your van have trophy truck lights on it?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's because it looks cool, it looks like
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: it got it looks cool. It's got to be what
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it is. Or someone told them that they needed to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: have them, you know, or it's like, oh, there's there's
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: animals on the road.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: In Baha, you're like, you're really, it's really not a
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: good idea to be driving at night in Baha.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: It's just not a good idea. Those roads are very narrow.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Really drive at night in Africa either.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: You don't really drive at night any because the reason
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: why we're traveling is to see things. At night, you
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: don't get to experience anything. Yeah, So like, on the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: occasion that you have to drive at night, just drive
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: a little slower. Yeah, just which you should be doing
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: anyways at night.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just drive a.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Little like if you're again, if you're just if you're
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: just having fun in your building a truck, we're not
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: like actually talking to you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I'm going to reiterate this. I'm going to continually reiterate this.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: This is an overland podcast for travelers. Yeah right, And
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: what we're trying to make sure that people know is
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: despite of everything you see and professional opinion, so called
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: professional opinions, you don't like well, I mean, I guess
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: on my last big trip, I was in twenty four
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: hour sunlight for like a month, so I didn't really
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: have another thing. That's another thing, like, so if you're
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: staying in North America and you're traveling north in the summer,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: you're never going to use them. And then if you're
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: traveling south in the winter, you're probably not going to
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: be driving at night.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: The other thing that I found is I put all
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of those fancy lights on top of my Tacoma. As
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: soon as you turn them on, you was undriveable because
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: it was so much reflection off of the hood and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it like filled the entire cab with this insane glow.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: On the on the Gladiator, I had this like empty
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: space between like the roof of the cab and the camper,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, fine, Like everybody's telling me, I
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: need to put a light bar there. So I put
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: a super fancy light bar there. It was incredibly impressive
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: when I used it in my driveway. I just I
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: never I never actually was in a situation where I
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: could use it because oh and this actually goes somewhere.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: So I was never in a situation where I could
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: use it because it was just too bright.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Like you can only use it off road.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: No one can be in front of you because if
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: there's a if you're on a trail run or you're
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: traveling with a friend and you turn that on, they
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: did not have eyeballs anymore, Like like the light was
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: going to hit their their rear view mirror and it
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: was going to evape line their eyes. Like it's not
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: to say that the technology is not cool or whatever,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: but I won't put another one on because there was
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: there were so few situations in which I could actually
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: use it that it wasn't the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And modern vehicles have such great headlights.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Now, oh my god, the Prospector like the headlights turn.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: You know, lighting technology is one of those things that
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: does trickle down. The new Jeep Wrangler with the LED lights,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: they're just really good, really good. I've broken the golden
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: rule and I've driven. Okay, the one time I drove
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: at night in Baja south of San Felipe, I was
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: coming north and the gas station in Gonzaga was closed
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: for like lunch like it always is, yeah, yeah, like
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: close for dinner or something, and we had to wait
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: for two hours and that we wanted to make it
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: to San Felipe. I actually, well, one like the only
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: weird experience I've ever had in Baja is this was
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and it was after the
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: hurricane came through and washed out all the bridges south
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: of San Felipe between San Felipe and Gonzaga. And I
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: had a dude like in his car, like I don't
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: know what was really going on, and I don't want
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: to I don't want to say car jacking and I
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: don't want to say that things.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But there's really only there's only really one.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Reason that that a Corolla, Like I clapped out Corolla
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: poles in front of you when you're going around. I
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: think of it asn't like an underpass, like the bridge
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: was whatever washed out, So they were like, I'm gonna say,
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: hiding under there. Pull out in front of me and
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: a guy with another thing comes out with like a
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: strube flashlight trying to blind me. So then that was
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: the one time I used my lights because I'm driving
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: really fast back to San Felipe. But I pull into
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: San Felipe and a FEDERALI tries to shake me down
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: because I have auxiliary lights on my car that aren't covered.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: And then a Mexico City guy comes over and it's
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: like just leave now.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: He's like he was trying. Do you know why he's
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: doing that.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: He's like he was, you had your auxiliary lights on it,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: and I only had two little like small auxiliary this
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: is pre light bar and I got shaked down. It
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth a squeaze. Yeah, So
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: like in Mexico. From what the FEDERALI told me is
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: that it is illegal to have uncovered auxiliary lights on
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: your vehicle.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they can. They can and will shake you
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: down when.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: You're on the road, for sure, even though I think
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: I think I forgot which ones I had on the jeep, Like,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: weren't they like the factory like could be jeep platform.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It's a part when.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: They're literally like a factory light, they're targets for theft,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, you can get those berry nuts and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: there's ways to lock them on there. But it's again,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of money driving lights and a set
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of fog lights.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Nobody's talking about that. It's then that's a.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Great place to start or even even start with putting
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in some premium fog lights. Yeah, and then drive the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: car and see how it works, and like, oh this
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: works really nice, and I'm done, and then maybe you
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: consider a nice set of driving lights, the six light bars,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the light bar inside the hood, the light bar on
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: top of the.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Like you know, and then and then on the lights too.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: As people will replace the fog lights with some kind
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: of drop in led pod, but they don't do The
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: SAE Society of automotive engineers approved. So basically, like it's
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: a way of saying that it's road legal. The pattern
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: is dispersed enough. Doesn't mean that it's not bright, but
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: it's dispersed enough that you can actually use it on
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: the road. So let's say like you're not driving around
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: the world and you're a normal person like we all are,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: and it's foggy outside, and you hit your fog lights
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden one you can't see because
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: fog lights are meant to they're very specific in how
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: they work to cut the fog and the cutoff and everything.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: So now you just can't see, and the people in
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: front of you can't see because they're blinded by this
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: like yellow orb of light. So then you end up
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: with a vehicle that's in the practical situation where on
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: the road you're actually going to use them, you can't.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's less even less practical, Like yeah, so
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the lights are another way, they really are. They I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: just I just think like super cool on a trophyture,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: save save that, save that money for gas something.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: And this isn't to bash on, you know, again to
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: having some good driving lights and and whatever, like just
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: just something practical, you know, like something that you use.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: It came with old hellas. I updated them to actually
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: to Baja designs. I put an LP six. I kept
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: the factory Hella fogs that when I say factory, they
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: were earth rummer in the bumper because I didn't want
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: to really do one. I would have to fabricate brackets
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: and how they mounted was a little obscure.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I don't use them.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I'm I'm probably going to take my LP
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: nines off because I would benefit from cooling on hills
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: more than I would benefit from a second.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: That's another thing too. Lights can really reduce your cooling effectiveness.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you put a bumper on the front, you put
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: a winch on front, you know, and then you start
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: putting light bars in your grill or big lights in
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: front of impeding the airflow and the.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Draft events of that.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even creating weird vacuums and pressure system it's stuff
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to consider.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: No, so true about the lights.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, This next one's kind of fun because it's a
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: little bit contentious because it's the mud terrain thing. Oh,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Like I've never like the mud terrain thing is interesting
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: because when you put a set of mud terrains on
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: your vehicle. They're going to cost more to begin with,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: they'll be more expensive than all terrains. They are going
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to be heavier than all terrains. Typically, they are going
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: to reduce your fuel economy even more than an all
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: terrain w because of the rolling resistance. They're going to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: be loud when you put them on new, and then
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: they're going to howl like a banshee after about twenty
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: thousand miles once they start to wear out. You see
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: them all over the place in the desert. You just
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: don't need a mud tire in the desert. Now, if
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you live in the Pacific Northwest, it's probably a good
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: idea to have a mud tiger, or you live in Kentucky.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm from Illinois, where four wheeling for me,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: going off road meant making a farmer very angry entree lane.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: And if you showed up with alterrain tires, you weren't
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: getting through. God, it was like the mud pit on
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Swanberg Road or something like whatever.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: It was like the obstacle. Mud trains have a purpose.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Totally, but just make sure you're using them again, not
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: because someone else has them on their vehicle.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: The best argument I've ever heard for mud trains was
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: from Chris Collard used to be editor of OJ very
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Accomplished Traveler, and he was in the eighty series.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: In Panama or Guatemala or something.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: I think it was in Guatemala, and he was like
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: going to all of these very remote my in ruins
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: that were down there. And I don't think that that.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: I think that truck had AT's it did and kept
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: getting stuck because you're driving through a jungle.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: So if your trip involves I think it also was
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: impacted by the fact that it had lockers. And you
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: know it, so when you have a factory locked eighty
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: series and I only dure have that truck.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: To get beer.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, but the mud terrains would have made it.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't need lockers if you had mud rains. Yeah, yeah, arguably.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: But you know, like there's there are cases where if
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: you're doing a specific trip where it's gonna be grassy,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: muddy and whatever.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Like cool, put the mud tires on there. But for
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: us guys in the Southwest, fuel economy goes down, expense
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: goes up, noise goes up.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Number one complaint we have with the earth Rummer is
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: actually those mpts. It's when I say the only tire,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I don't mean like it's the best choice. I mean
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: like it is the only tire that fits the vehicle
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: and has the load thing. But if they had that
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: in like a more milder terrain tire like an eight,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: and I didn't have these huge lugs, the car would
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: ride better, would track better, yeah, be.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Better, and it'd be better on icy roads, it'd be
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: better on wet roads.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All of those things are and they come.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: Out of balance, like mud train tires come out of balance. Yeah,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: and when a vehicle the tires or the let's say
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: the wheels are out of balance, that puts more wear
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: on your ball joints, ti rod ends, like all the stuff,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: which when you're a traveler, generally you don't want to
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: have to change your ball joints in Bolivia, ball joints
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: in Blivia. That sounds trendy. Ball joints are a pain
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: to change anywhere. Yeah, you know, like get through your trip.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Like I'll hear the argument from mud trains. There are
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: some situations. Well there's totally reasons to have them. It
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: just if you don't live in a place where there's
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of mud. Yeah, why do that to yourself? Yeah, again,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I think it's I think it is fashion.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you're just rolling around.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Mind there's also there's also some really good hybrid tires.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like they're slightly more aggressive.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: What are they calling them, They're calling them like the
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: rts or like, yeah, they're hybrids.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: I think that stuff like that that could be a
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: nice makes a lot of sense, especially with option modern
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: tire tech and.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally so much better now.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: All right, So this was one that I came up
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: with because I just I've literally never understood it. So
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you have an SUV with two people, an individual and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: their partner, and they're in a land cruiser and they
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: are pulling a trailer that has a roof tent on
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the top of it. I have never understood why somebody
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: would rid on this, Because I got my response, you
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: keep going, I have never understood why somebody would toe
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: their roof tent just put the roof tent on top
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: of the car. Now, there are exceptions to this, right,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: So let's say you've got a family of five and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the same land cruiser. You probably do need a trailer
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: to carry all the stuff for your family and to
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: make sure you have enough food. But if you've got
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: a single a solo traveler, or two people in a
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: land cruiser and they're pulling a roof tent, it makes
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: no sense to me. You did mention your retort, which
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I think is totally valid. But I think that to
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: spend thirty thousand on something that carries the roof tent,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: carries the roof tent that you could just put on
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: your car. Yeah, you could take all those systems that
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: are in that trailer and put them in your vehicle easily. Yeah,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: and save yourself. Let's call it twenty thousand bucks. It's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of money, yeah.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: And fuel economy drops in California you can only drive
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: fifty five miles an hour on the highways. It just
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: like all these try backing up a trailer for a
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: quarter mile on a shelf road, you know, like.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: No, you know what I would do in that situation.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: I would unhook it and drive away crying.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's not saying no trailers. I think if
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: you're going to tow a trailer, it should bring a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: luxury with it that you.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Cannot I want to sleep inside of it. That you
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: can't have in your car. It sort of like that
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Patriot X three is nice, super nice. As much as
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: say it's a tent, you're actually living inside of it,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and you have heat, and you have all of that.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: You have a heater, you've got a little dnette area,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: you got a table, you got a big, huge queen
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: size bed with a like a regular mattress. Yeah, it
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: has a heater on the inside, or like a tear
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: drop where I stayed in this escapod teardrop trailer the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: other day and it was howling wind forty mile an
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: hour winds in the outside of Phoenix, and I heard nothing.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: It was totally silent, and it's nice. It was super nice.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I don't personally, I would never toast something that again
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: didn't offer me.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: We'll call it the luxury of sleeping inside. It doesn't
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: really make sense.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: But where I think that trailers like that do make
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: sense is if you want to go out on the
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: weekends and let's say you have an F two to
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: fifty tremor or you've got a stock pickup truck or
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: whatever that is, and you don't really want to mess
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: with it, and you're building out your trailer, I kind
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: of get that, Like I kind of understand it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: But some of these roof tints now, like some of
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: the i caamper ones, they have these quick disconnects. Yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: like you can have that roof tint on there in
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: less time than it would take I think.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: I think the argument is garages. I've got to parking
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: up garage at home, or maybe you live in a
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: city where people have sticky fingers, Yeah, and you want
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: to keep everything in your garage, like I see it.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: But I do agree with.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: You, like highly specialized situation, or if you've got a
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: family of five and a four runner, you probably do
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: need a trailer because so it's the only way you
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: can add additional payload is to go against gross combined
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: vehicle weight rating as opposed to just gross field. So
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: if you're looking at a trailer, if you're looking at
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a trailer, it should offer something that you cannot do
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: easily in the vehicle, which means you should be able
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to sleep inside it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: It should have a heater.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Even better, it has a bathroom, like something that literally
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: makes it worthwhile to haul that thing around with your
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: car and take like the three four mile per gallon
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: hit and all the other downsides to towing a trailer.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: When I tow this Explore trailer, like, I'm happy to
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: to it because it is so comfortable.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And I can work. I can work in it.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: It has a bathroom, I can spend a week working
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: out of it comfortably, heater, arror conditioner. It's amazing. But
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I would never want to do that just to haul
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: around a roof tense. So something to think about. You
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: don't spend that twenty thirty grand on a trailer that
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: basically is just a roof tent a mount although I
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: do want an og At Chaser for some reason because
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: they're awesome, because they're like, I don't know, I think
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: they're super there. I think they're like this og Like,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I think we're entering this this period where like overlanding
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: and whatever we're calling it now has been around for
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: long enough that you're starting to kind of get classic
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: stuff in the segment. Yea, I'm like super into it
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: behind your LJ that they are so sick we'll.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Do another podcast in the LJ. But it's the coolest
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: one in the world. Yes, it is the coolest hell.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it doesn't mean don't do the trailer, but
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: think about like, really, am I bringing some benefit with it?
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Probably not, especially given the expense. Okay, the next one
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: is this this oversized recovery gear. This one is really
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: interesting to me because people will have they'll put a
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: twelve thousand pound winch on the wrangler. You want the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: winch to be one point five to two times gross
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: vehicle weight. Yeah so, and it depends on your use case.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: But there are reasons for that. Because the winch will
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: be heavier, the winch will have heavier cable that isn't
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: necessary for the load. You'll end up with less cable
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: on the drum. You're going to have a higher amp
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: draw that you don't need yep.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And you can use.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Mechanical advantage in other ways using pulley blocks and other
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: stuff like that.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I'll speak on the straps and stuff.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Is that if you have a strap that's meant for
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: an earth roamer and you use it on a Forerunner,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: what ends up happening is that the part you want
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: to like the strap, should always be considered sacrificial. That
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: is what you actually want to fail. What you do
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: not want to fail are the bolts or the welds
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: on your recovery point. That then turns into a projectile.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Right, so you or damages your frame.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that's one of the reasons why when we
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: were doing the whole recovery kit mass trecks, we actually
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: started doing fused like fused soft shackles because so many
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: people in Australia were like again throwing the you know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: the twenty thousand kilogram, billion pounds.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Strap on their high lucks and it was ripping bumpers off.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why it rips the bumper
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: off is because the strap app is designed for a
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: vehicle with a specific gross vehicle weight. So if you
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: go with the four inch recovery strap that's designed for
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a super duty and you use it with your Suzuki Samurai,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: you are not going to get that fifteen to twenty
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: percent stretch out of it you will with the super
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: duty because.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: It's not you're not going to be able to stretch it.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: So you're not going to get the kinetic benefit of
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the strap, which is going to put a significant increased
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: load on all of the connection points and the recovery
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: will be less effective. So use the recovery equipment, use
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the size winch, the winch rope, the recovery gear that's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: appropriate to your vehicle or the vehicles that you travel with,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: and you'll end up with spending less money, they'll kit
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: will weigh less, you'll end up with better recovery results,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: and most important, you know you're not causing a whole
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: bunch of safety concerns.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Along the way. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's part one. Yeah,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: that's a good one.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: And then this is the last that I have on
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the list because it's it's your favorite, is which one?
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It's the overkill electrical system.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Oh oh god, it drives me crazy. So this is
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: we're going to end with the coup de gras.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: I guess, like what maybe two years ago, three years
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: ago it started becoming you know, lithium started to come
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: out of the scene.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: And with lithium batteries, they have a lot of advantages.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: They're much more energy dense, and you know they can
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: their depth of discharge is near one hundred percent versus
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: an AGM or any kind of flooded lead acid battery
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: is about fifty percent.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: The lithiums have controllers on them, Yeah, so they protect
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the battery.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Lithium's great, and the problem is on some alternators, they're
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: not going to consistently charge, so you need a d
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: C to d C you know, basically is just taking
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: a little bit more amperage from from the you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: the vehicle when it's running, and it's upgrading it to
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: a higher voltage with less amperage. So you know, you
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: see twenty thirty forty amp lithium chargers. Well, then people
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: started putting trailer systems in their Forerunner or their Tacoma, and.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I mean I was I was one of those people.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: You know, I put a full system, like it had
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: like four or maybe six water tank outputs, It had
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: like all of these different things, and it was like
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: such a problem. Like remember you guys took it up
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: to Utah. Didn't work, and like it like the little
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: the little clips even though they had screws, Like you
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: have to shoehorn these things, you know, so they're heavy.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: They're heavy, and you end up with two of these
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: things that are about like eighteen inches long by like
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: ten inches high, and then you have to shove this
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: somewhere and then all of the ensuing cables not a
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: problem when you're putting it into a caravan or a
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: trailer or you know, some kind of exhibition camper or.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Something like that, and those things need to have power
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: management at that level of complexity because they're complex systems.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: But most people end up putting this. Some of these
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: systems by the time they're installed, are ten thousand dollars. Yeah,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: I mean there's five grand of just parts oftentimes, and
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: the labor is expensive because it has to be done right.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: And there's some shops that are doing really good work,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: but they end up with like a really overkill thing
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: to turn on like a three watt led light and
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: to run their fridge and things like that, And I
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: just like, why again it I literally I just don't
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: understand why people are putting into it must trailer systems.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Is it because it's trendy.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: And again you start to trend to this like fashion accessory,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: and a fashion accessory that's very overkilled.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: There's nothing well.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: And it's not even just like we talked about the
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: recovery stuff that was overkill problem. This is unnecessary complexity,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: like yeah, it's actually defeating the purpose. I think, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I think what I have experienced in most cases around
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: power management systems is that within a very short period
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of time that they don't work, and you just you
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: always know the guy in camp because he's fiddling and
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: he's pissed off, and his solar panels not charging and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and or his or he goes out and his auxiliary
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: batteries flat because it hasn't been working, and then his
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: fridge is shutting it shutting off his and his food spoils.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: It's like you're describing me with my gladiator.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, So I literally I would get to camp and like, oh,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: the diesel heater is not working. Why is the diesel
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: heater not working. Oh, because it blew a fuse on
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: this thing and then it did this, and.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Then go with the most simple solution first. And there
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: are degrees of that. We were talking before the podcast
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: about when I got to spend time with Tom Shepherd
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: in the UK and he was showing me his gew
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: wagon that he had driven all over Northern Africa, and
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I said, do you have an auxiliary battery? He says,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I do because I want to make sure that I
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: can start the vehicle if the main battery fails. And
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I do run some accessories off of that, like my
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: radios and my GPS units. And I says, well, how
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: do you manage that, and he flips the seat forward,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: and there was a mechanical like a literally a dial.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: One of those things. That's right.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: It's like a blue Sea dial, and it has a
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: position that says off, which disconnects both batteries completely from
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: the system. So that's now a security device. You turn
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: it into the off position, you can't start the car,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: nothing works. Or you could go into position one, which
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: is just day to day driving, or you could go
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: into position two, which was now only your house systems,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: or you could combine them where it said all and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: he said, the reason why he does that is it
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: makes him pay attention to his battery system. He checks
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: on stuff, he checks the gauges, he's participating in the process. Now,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: the next step up from that is just a very
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: simple DC to DC charging system. They're very small in compact,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: they're not that expensive. They take power from your alternator
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: and they provide twenty twenty five thirty amps to do
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of great options yup therefore, and a lot
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: of times they have solar power inputs, and they are
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: super simple. They're very inexpensive, they can be installed, maintained
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: in service. And then there are like also very simple
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: ones that just use starter solenoid relays and they just
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: once the voltage hits a certain level from the alternator,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: it combines it and then it's charging. So really going
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: simple I think is the key on those.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I see a lot of people that are doing
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: you know, like the wedge stuf isle of campers. They
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: go so overkill on this stuff and they end up
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: spending you know, an equivalent amount of money to a
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: four wheel camper having a trailer or something, and they
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: have a quarter of the space. Like we had that
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: at Summit on the Gladiator, and it was it was
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: really good, Like it was well insulated, it was well made,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: like I truthfully enjoyed it. The mistake that I made
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: was deviating too far from stock Like from at It
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: came with you know, kind of some power switches, it
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: came with USB charger, It came with it, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: a little light lighter, a light you know, you could
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: have a fan put in, You could have all that,
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: and then you literally had like a cable quick disconnect
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to take the camper off, you could.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: It all went downhill from that because what I tried
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: to do is I tried to turn what was a
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: simple camper? You know, like a wedge camper is inherently
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: simpler than sliding sliding camper. Let's let's just build on that.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: And you're trying to really get the slide in camper.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: You end up spending more money and you end up
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: with I had a five foot bed. A lot of
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: guys that are doing these wedge camper have five five
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: and a half foot bets. You can't put ten pounds
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: of stuff in a five pound bag, so you end
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: up with like, oh is that storage, No, that's an
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: electrical compartment. Oh is that storage, No, that's another electrical apartment.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: Oh what's that Well, that's where I keep my battery. Oh,
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: so where do you keep your stuff? And then you
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: end up building cabinets out, and then you end up
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: building this out and then payload and then you've spent
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: thirty or forty grand and you should have just bought
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: the slide and camper, Like, yeah, it's I'm in people
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: like projects.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I love projects. I enjoyed doing some of it. But
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: this is another thing that people are told that they
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: need that they don't. Yeah, they see it. I think
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: that's the.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Key is that you don't need you can buy the
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: seventy dollars Blue Sea Switch ACR. Yeah, and you can
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: click click click and you're done, or yeah, they're at
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the Blue sy ACR, which is super simple. Use.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I think that one's an auto setting.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: It does have an auto setting. That one's very cool
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and very inexpensive. Couple hundred bucks and you're done. I
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: think it's really about making sure that we're not over
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: complicating the vehicle and we're not just monkey see monkey
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: do on something that we see on Instagram, and that
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: we save that money for traveling exactly. Matt, You're gonna
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: have your wrap up, But for me, my wrap up
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: is there's nothing wrong with doing any of this stuff.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: You can do everything on our list, enjoy it, have
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: a wonderful time, take all the pleasure that comes from
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a hobby that you love. Yeah, but what we do
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: want to what I was hoping to achieve with this
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: podcast was that for those that were on the fence,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: for those that were unsure if they should spend the
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: money on these things, or they're not sure what they
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: should spend money on, you don't need to spend money
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: on any of it. A stock two hundred series land
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Cruiser will take you around the world. There's nothing to
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: be done. Just go and enjoy travel if that's your goal.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: If you'd enjoy building vehicles and you enjoy accessories, and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: you enjoy making something that's a reflection of your personality
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: or whatever.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: You know, that's fine too.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: But really I really wanted this to be about if
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: you go down this list and you spend all that money,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you're going to spend sixty seventy eighty grand of stuff
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: on a vehicle that you don't need. And I'd love
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: for people to spend you know, even half with time traveling,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: half of that on actually traveling. Yeah, many things in
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: life for me come down to need versus want. When
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: people ask me questions, that's a that's a really particular
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: thing for me. When they say I need this, my
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: mind defaults to simple, simplify because my experience as a
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: traveler has taught me that's simple is almost always better,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: yeah than complex, And I think in all of life
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: generally speaking.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Right, So when somebody comes up and they're like, oh, yeah,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: I need to get lights, and I need to get this,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: and I need to get this, and I need to
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: get this, I'm like, you don't need it if you
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: want it, totally go for it, man, like, enjoy it.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: Like there's there's things that I want, and there's things
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: that I buy that not like it doesn't always have
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: to make sense, right, Oh, I think.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Most of the things that I buy, even though I'm
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: I live very minimalist. Yeah, almost everything that I buy
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I don't need.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: I am not a minimalist.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Mic drop here, folks if you were if you were
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: wondering if Matt was a minimalist or not.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: No, But and again, I think the thing is that
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: this podcast isn't directed towards the builder or the non
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: traveling overlander, like they're almost just a different breed now.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: But don't let the you know, we're trying to create
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: an audience and and and things for travelers. That is
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: what we are passionate about. Ye, and what I like
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: to think that this podcast is actually about. It's one
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: of the few remaining like actual overland travel things like
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: it's not it's weird, it's it's it's this fine line
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: and there was and there's no job.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: There are some.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Messages that I had that I'm like, oh, well, you know,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: you're you're being really gatekeepy on this or whatever. I'm like, yeah,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: a little bit, one hundred percent. But I'm also talking
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: this overland landing word has always been so ambiguous and
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: it's been very unclear if you are the builder, you know,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: the non traveling overlander, like I'm not. I'm not criticizing you.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: I will say, like, recognize what you need and what
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: you you don't need, yeah, and.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Then be careful over preaching it to others, hopefully to
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: the travelers out there, which again is who this podcast
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: is for.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Hopefully there is something of value there. Oh, I think so.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: And it's really like you said, needs versus wants and
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: making sure that we're spending more money traveling than we
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: are on the truck. And I think that that's kind
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of the message because it's fun. It was fun for
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: us to riff on all these I mean, and again
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I want to close with this, everything on the list
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I have done wrong.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm literally definitely doing I'm literally.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Just trying maybe if we save one, Matt, if we
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: can just save one, save one, make all it. So
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: next time.