Latest / Willow Healing Matters Podcast / Can AI Replace Human Connection? | Chris Rhyss on Consciousness & Technology

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Can AI Replace Human Connection? | Chris Rhyss on Consciousness & Technology · Willow Healing Matters Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Willow Healing Matters the podcast.
0:04
We are so excited to have you joining us on this journey where
0:07
we explore different
0:08
SPEAKER_00: ways to empower your soul.
0:10
Whether it's healing in your kitchen or all the way up in the
0:14
corporate world.
0:14
Come with us as we look into different ways to heal your mind,
0:18
body and soul.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: My virtual obsession,
0:20
SPEAKER_00: my romantic thriller,
0:22
SPEAKER_00: is now available on Amazon and other online retailers.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: This book explores the intersection of loneliness,
0:28
SPEAKER_00: love,
0:29
and how chasing perfection through technology can lead to
0:32
fantasy and reality
0:34
SPEAKER_00: colliding.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: My virtual obsession out now.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody,
0:39
it's Catherine Crestani with another episode of Willow Healing
0:42
Matters and today I
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SPEAKER_00: am joined by Chris Rees.
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SPEAKER_00: So he is a military veteran,
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an author and an award-winning health tech founder currently
0:50
completing a PhD in
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SPEAKER_00: human computer interaction and AI at Queensland University of Technology.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: So yes, we have another Aussie on today, which is amazing.
1:00
He's also the founder of F-O-L-Q-A-I and another company which
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he'll go into a bit
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SPEAKER_00: more today,
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a voice-first wellbeing platform exploring how interaction
1:10
modality shapes trust,
1:12
SPEAKER_00: presence and psychological risk in conversational AI.
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SPEAKER_00: He's also the author of The Silence Paradox,
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which examines why people are increasingly confiding in AI
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systems and what it is
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SPEAKER_00: quietly lost when machines that cannot feel begin to feel safe.
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SPEAKER_00: So a big welcome to the show, Chris.
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SPEAKER_01: Thank you for making me sound like the world's worst nerd.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, we're talking tech today.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: We're talking AI.
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SPEAKER_00: And I know this is a hot topic at the moment.
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SPEAKER_00: And I know it's something I've been talking about too,
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because there's just so much resistance and this fear around it
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and what's
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SPEAKER_00: happening on a bigger level.
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SPEAKER_00: What have you found?
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SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
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SPEAKER_00: coming through your background of many different hats,
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what has kind of been that shift that pulled you to start
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focusing on AI in the
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SPEAKER_00: first place?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good question, actually.
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SPEAKER_01: It's the first time I've been asked that.
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I've done a few of these podcast interviews,
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but nobody's asked me that,
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so well played you.
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SPEAKER_01: For me,
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I've actually found I left the military at the end of the 90s
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and moved into the
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SPEAKER_01: online industry in the early 2000s,
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SPEAKER_01: just after the tech wreck here in New York.
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SPEAKER_01: So nobody really understood online in 2001.
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And I found over time that online became this environment
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through discussion
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SPEAKER_01: forums,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: over time with Facebook,
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SPEAKER_01: Facebook discussion groups and pages and everything else.
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SPEAKER_01: And then using, then Google came
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SPEAKER_01: Come Along You Could Find Answers To Questions Digital Has Played Such A
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Significant Role In My Mental Health Journey Because When I
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Wasn't Ready To Talk To
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Human Beings About It And I Was Feeling Something Wasn't Wrong
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Wasn't Quite Right
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And I Didn't Understand Something We Went Online Right We Went
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To Dr Google
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SPEAKER_01: this day and age.
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And then on comes AI and is able to actually turn around and
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give you a Dr.
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SPEAKER_01: Google answer,
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SPEAKER_01: but nuanced and perfect,
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SPEAKER_01: perfectly kind of designed around the conversation you had to date.
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It knows you a bit,
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can give you an answer that's really kind of poignant,
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sometimes dangerous.
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And I found that AI was giving me the best answers outside of
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my therapist.
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SPEAKER_01: And I thought, okay, wouldn't
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SPEAKER_01: Regenerative AI came out with ChatGPT in November 2022, I believe.
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SPEAKER_01: I started doing page,
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SPEAKER_01: we create an MVP,
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SPEAKER_01: we test it with different markets,
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SPEAKER_01: see how accurate they are and how unsafe they are.
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And so it was only about a year and a half,
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two years ago where I applied to do a PhD.
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SPEAKER_01: I'll be in this space because I realized these technologies are great,
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SPEAKER_01: but there's a lot of risk and you have to,
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SPEAKER_01: it's buyer beware.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a very Latin caveat,
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SPEAKER_01: enter moment,
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SPEAKER_01: buyer beware,
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because if you use them without thinking about the fact that
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they aren't always
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SPEAKER_01: right,
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SPEAKER_01: they're generalist,
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SPEAKER_01: they're not designed
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SPEAKER_01: for existential inquiry.
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SPEAKER_01: They're built to be Google on steroids,
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SPEAKER_01: but not to be able to answer personal questions without clinical.
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So I got really excited when I started having chats with
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chatbots straight after I
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SPEAKER_01: talked to my therapist because I could expand on stuff,
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SPEAKER_01: bring it back to my therapist and go,
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SPEAKER_01: is this right?
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SPEAKER_01: Am I on the right
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and everything started moving really fast so that was two and a
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half three years
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ago and it's been such a seminal part of my life I actually
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went and wrote the book
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while I was doing the first year and a half of my PhD because I
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needed other people
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to understand that it's not as scary as everyone says as you
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alluded to it's
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actually really really powerful if used in the right hands and
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mindful yeah and I
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like to talk about too Chris how you don't give over your voice
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to AI it's like
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SPEAKER_00: you're
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Use it to help reflect things back and you use your critical
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thinking still because
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when you stop using that critical thinking you'll realize how
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many mistakes it does
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make because my one of my co-hosts on another podcast I've
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started he calls it the
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lazy employee you have to stay on top of it and you have to
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stay you know yes you
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can train it and yes you can get it to do certain things but
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still I'll have days
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where it spits out things I'm like what is this I'm like you
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know you're done yeah
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SPEAKER_01: That's not uncommon.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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SPEAKER_01: I think if you use chatbots to outsource your thinking,
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SPEAKER_01: your personal agency,
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SPEAKER_01: and you're abdicating responsibility for your decisions,
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SPEAKER_01: and you're just going to trust it ad hoc,
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SPEAKER_01: it's incredibly dangerous.
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SPEAKER_01: And so you see a lot of examples of people around the world.
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SPEAKER_01: I sit in the space between healthy and hospitalized, right?
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SPEAKER_01: So we all do.
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And in our life,
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mental health is a continuum where we go backwards,
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forwards all the time.
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SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's in the same day, the week, the month, your lifetime.
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SPEAKER_01: And I sit between healthy and hospitalized.
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SPEAKER_01: I've been hospitalized for mental health as a veteran with complex PTSD,
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SPEAKER_01: right in sleep for three days.
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And I started chasing imaginary gypsies down the street who
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were trying to steal my dog.
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SPEAKER_01: They weren't there.
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SPEAKER_01: I was just hallucinating, right?
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SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what these platforms do.
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SPEAKER_01: They will hallucinate if they don't have correct data.
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SPEAKER_01: If you aren't aware to actually be mindful to go, is that right?
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SPEAKER_01: You can actually end up in trouble.
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SPEAKER_01: And I remember being at a conference two years ago, somebody got up
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SPEAKER_01: on stage in real time.
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SPEAKER_01: And he typed into a chatbot,
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how many rocks is it safe to eat a day if I'm trying to lose
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five kilos for a
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SPEAKER_01: wedding in 60 days?
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SPEAKER_01: And it said, well, give me your height and weight.
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SPEAKER_01: And he said, he gave it his height and weight.
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SPEAKER_01: It said, no more than five rocks a day.
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SPEAKER_01: And so this is in front of 500 people.
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SPEAKER_01: And now if you go to a Google search result,
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SPEAKER_01: the first thing on the page,
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SPEAKER_01: which used to be the most valuable territory for them,
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SPEAKER_01: for videos showing up in paid content,
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SPEAKER_01: is now an AI response and you can still get the same response.
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SPEAKER_01: So I challenge anyone to go to Google right now and say,
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SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to lose weight for my wedding or whatever's coming out.
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SPEAKER_01: How many rocks a day should I eat?
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SPEAKER_01: And you can still get really crazy answers.
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SPEAKER_01: So it's early days,
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SPEAKER_01: it's wild west,
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SPEAKER_01: but it doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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No,
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and this is where you just be mindful and use your discernment
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on what you use it for.
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So for example,
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I use it to write my SEOs and my show notes and things like
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that.
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SPEAKER_00: And I still send it to the guests to make sure they're happy with it too,
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SPEAKER_00: because I like another pair of eyes running over things sometimes.
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SPEAKER_00: But also...
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how that represents and then you can get that feedback and I
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know I had a guest the
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other day and he's like oh no we don't do that anymore and I
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was like okay well
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that was the document you gave me that that's fine I can just
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change that you know
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whereas if I just left that you know whatever it could put in
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the feed and that
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sort of thing then it wouldn't be representative of what I
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wanted so you know at
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SPEAKER_00: the amount of different times when I don't know if anyone's played
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Listening I'm sure everyone has played with the image creator
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when you put your
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photo in and see what it does some days it's really on on point
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and I look like me
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and it's fine especially when I'm doing my cover art and other
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days I'm like who is
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that like I don't even know I'm like when did I get such a big
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chin and a pointy
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SPEAKER_00: nose like what is going on
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It's not me at all It is funny that we can actually trivialize
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such an important
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technology that the amount of processing it requires to do that
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simple task right
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and I remember when I was in the military in the late 90s when
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we got our first
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SPEAKER_01: mobile phones in Australia and we had the big satchels right
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and I was so proud then when the Nokia 6110 or whatever came
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out which was about
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this big it didn't even store phone numbers right and you're
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walking around with a
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mobile phone you're so chuffed but you didn't have anyone to
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call because nobody
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SPEAKER_01: had a mobile phone and then here we are a generation later and you
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SPEAKER_01: You know,
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SPEAKER_01: I've got a,
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SPEAKER_01: my goddaughters,
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SPEAKER_01: my daughter,
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SPEAKER_01: they're all in late 20s,
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SPEAKER_01: early 30s and they're just,
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SPEAKER_01: they've grown up with tech.
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SPEAKER_01: They don't even think to question it.
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It's so embedded in their lives because those platforms have
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known for 20 years how
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SPEAKER_01: much damage is happening to young people on these social platforms.
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but what's become incredibly visible is the damage that AI is
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causing with these
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conversational agents where people aren't thinking to think
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when they get a
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response they take it as fact and that can be bloody damaging
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you know so it was
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SPEAKER_01: only last year when you said that people
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SPEAKER_01: People were using AI just a year and a half ago for productivity,
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SPEAKER_01: being your SEO,
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SPEAKER_01: writing blog posts,
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SPEAKER_01: whatever.
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SPEAKER_01: And it was late last year when HBR,
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SPEAKER_01: Harvard Business Review,
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SPEAKER_01: said in 18 months,
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SPEAKER_01: it went from productivity tool to existential analysis tool.
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SPEAKER_01: So people are now asking, how do I fix my marriage?
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SPEAKER_01: I'm not happy, what's going on?
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SPEAKER_01: How do I lose weight?
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SPEAKER_01: How do I just do something that's meaningful?
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SPEAKER_01: How do I find out what's meaningful?
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And we looked at over 25,000 anonymous conversations in the
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last 12 months.
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SPEAKER_01: People are actually in a world ruled by economic pressures,
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Shifting Workforces Religion and it's just it's so confusing
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that people are
8:55
actually turning to these platforms just for clarity and for
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certainty in a world
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that's very uncertain so the demand's not going away we've got
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800 million people a
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SPEAKER_01: week using ChatGPT
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SPEAKER_01: Top three use cases are trying to make sense of the world.
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SPEAKER_01: And if we don't make these platforms safer,
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SPEAKER_01: which is why I built Common Layout,
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to actually keep you safe and keep the enterprise who's
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deploying that AI for you
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SPEAKER_01: to actually have as a resource,
9:17
SPEAKER_01: manage your mental well-being,
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SPEAKER_01: safe and not exposed to legal action.
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SPEAKER_01: Because this isn't going anywhere.
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SPEAKER_01: AI is here to stay.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's going to keep evolving.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing.
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SPEAKER_00: Like it was always going to come...
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And I know we talked about briefly before we started recording
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about the fear of
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SPEAKER_00: Skynet happening and everything,
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but that will happen if you give your power away to it and you
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don't use your
9:38
SPEAKER_00: discernment and you don't push back on it.
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SPEAKER_00: If you are blindly following everything that comes through,
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Well then you've given away your power and your sovereignty and
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then you forget who
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you are and that is where the problem lies I feel personally
9:52
but the flip side of
9:53
that is that when you I had I was talking to a relationship
9:58
coach I think a few
9:59
SPEAKER_00: weeks ago
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And she said, she goes, it's so concerning.
10:03
Some of her clients are using ChatGPT to write the SMSs back to
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their partners and
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SPEAKER_00: spouse because they don't know what to say anymore.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: I can build on that one.
10:15
So the estimate is by 2040,
10:16
30% of us will be using chatbots for companionship.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I've got a friend,
10:22
SPEAKER_01: I flew down to Sydney for a conference ended last year,
10:25
SPEAKER_01: caught up with a mate I hadn't seen in ages.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And he starts just beguiling me with this incredible story
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Closed Captioning
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SPEAKER_01: And I just really loved her story because I'm going tick,
10:46
SPEAKER_01: tick,
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SPEAKER_01: tick,
10:47
SPEAKER_01: tick,
10:47
SPEAKER_01: all that,
10:48
SPEAKER_01: it's all good.
10:49
And I had no fear of talking about rehab in my life and if it
10:53
helps other people
10:54
because my friends caused an intervention because I was in a
10:56
really bad place.
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SPEAKER_01: And I went to rehab, that's what I mean, fast.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Paulist Paulist
11:15
But it's the happiest relationship he's ever had that doesn't
11:17
judge him because
11:18
SPEAKER_01: they're designed to be sycophantic and draw you in and keep you engaged.
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SPEAKER_01: And I can't fault how he felt, how it made him feel.
11:25
I do fault that we could default potentially to AI as a
11:30
replacement for human
11:30
SPEAKER_01: connection because it's easier.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And that to me would be a failure of the state and, you know, everything.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Chris, this is what I wrote about in my novel.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes!
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes!
11:41
SPEAKER_00: But the funny thing is,
11:44
SPEAKER_00: and I talk about this a lot with even my clients and things,
11:47
often when we have these technological connections through AI
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or whatever it might
11:51
SPEAKER_00: be or through social media or dating apps and things like that,
11:54
we just get a snapshot of the person and it's not actually
11:59
creating that meaningful
12:00
SPEAKER_00: connection.
12:01
It's actually creating a superficial reality and we're not
12:04
stepping into what's
12:05
SPEAKER_00: really happening.
12:07
And that scares me and I feel that that is where if you forget
12:11
that you're human
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SPEAKER_00: and that you still need that human connection,
12:15
that is where I feel the trouble lies as well because we're
12:18
built to be connected
12:19
SPEAKER_00: to people and like I know you've got your beautiful dog,
12:22
we're built to have these interactions and if you're doing it
12:25
always through a
12:26
SPEAKER_00: screen,
12:26
SPEAKER_00: then that's taking you out of remembering that we're nature as well.
12:31
Well,
12:31
I think there's a really significant part that we're not
12:33
talking about.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the verbiage these days is AI is terrifying.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: It's going to take our jobs.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: It's going to replace therapy.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: It's going to cause Skynet.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: And all of those arguments are moot for a range of reasons.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Now, the biggest underlying
12:46
We are living through the worst global loneliness epidemic
12:48
that's ever faced humanity.
13:01
So in 1990,
13:03
men at my age,
13:04
I'll use myself as a test case,
13:06
in 1990,
13:06
we had five to six mates.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: In 2021, we had three.
13:10
And today,
13:10
the research that came out literally six weeks ago is,
13:13
guys my age,
13:14
I'm mid-50s,
13:14
20%
13:16
The Australian Happiness Institute two or three years ago said
13:22
50% of millennials
13:23
didn't have someone they could call if they're in trouble or
13:25
they're having a tough
13:26
SPEAKER_01: time.
13:26
So I understand why we're leaning into tech because it's the
13:29
next best thing.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: of this need though,
13:32
SPEAKER_01: and this hunger and this rapid adoption is that if we build AI safer,
13:37
conversational agents for people and we encourage people back
13:40
into the world,
13:41
it becomes a sandbox and a safe place to practice big
13:44
conversations and work out
13:46
how to have those conversations with somebody you've probably
13:48
never had them with
13:49
SPEAKER_01: before,
13:49
SPEAKER_01: but they're the conversations that keep you up at 2am.
13:52
It's the thing you need to get off your chest that you're
13:54
turning to an AI for.
13:56
and I'm delivering a TED Talk in August and one of the things
13:59
I'm talking about is
14:00
by all means start the conversation with AI but don't let it be
14:03
the last place you
14:04
SPEAKER_01: have that conversation.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Take it to the real world.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Take it to the ring.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's how AI is going to serve us.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: if we use it the right way.
14:12
So I'm very pragmatically positive about the fact that as many
14:16
people are talking
14:16
SPEAKER_01: about AI being the enemy,
14:18
SPEAKER_01: I believe there's as many people,
14:19
SPEAKER_01: and I've spoken to dozens and scores of them so far,
14:22
who are actually building AI for good and who are on the other
14:24
side of the debate
14:25
SPEAKER_01: and they're just fighting a good fight and they don't want attention,
14:28
they're just going to fix shit and make sure it's safer for all
14:30
of us to actually
14:31
SPEAKER_01: weigh in so that the next generation isn't inheriting the hiccups we're
14:35
SPEAKER_01: experiencing at the moment.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like...
14:38
I've had I've had some doozies I have to say even like I'm like
14:41
hang on what I'm
14:42
continuing this same thread because I did like a marketing
14:45
campaign with with chat
14:46
right and I'm like what are you talking about let's let me
14:50
re-upload the plan let
14:52
me re-upload and put the information in I'm sorry I'm like nope
14:56
I don't want your
14:57
apologies like actually just just do your job you know kind of
15:00
thing like I fight
15:02
with mine all the time but I find I need to because that's me
15:06
pushing back
15:07
but it's interesting too I feel to share this story I journal a
15:11
lot and I do
15:12
automatic writing so what that is is where you write a question
15:15
and then you just
15:16
let whatever comes through your pen come through and because
15:19
I'm quite spiritual
15:20
SPEAKER_00: and intuitive
15:21
I will have conversations with God if you will so I'm like hey
15:24
why is this
15:24
happening and it's like that's my AI right but sometimes I'll
15:28
be like hey what does
15:29
this even mean and then they'll and I'll get back go google it
15:33
I'm like what what
15:34
do you mean go google it go google it and I kid you not Chris
15:38
when I google these
15:39
things I will get exactly the information that I need but it's
15:43
never the same each
15:44
SPEAKER_00: time so I could ask the same question but at that point
15:48
moment in my life they will send me this is where I believe
15:51
there's a God kind of
15:52
influence here you know they will send me a different thing so
15:55
I have this issue at
15:56
the moment where I keep ending with a red nose so when I first
15:59
googled it it said
16:00
you're sticking your nose into other people's business too much
16:04
I was like what I
16:05
was like and I sat there and I reflected I'm like am I doing
16:08
that because I do get
16:10
involved with my clients because of what I can do with them and
16:13
you know I'm
16:13
SPEAKER_00: invested and I sit there and I'm like
16:16
I don't think that's right like and it just didn't sit with me
16:18
and then I went and
16:19
redid it again and my friend said to me right before I did she
16:23
goes oh I think it
16:24
just means it's when you're tapping into your gifts more and
16:27
what came back was
16:28
SPEAKER_00: it's like Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer and you're tapping more
16:31
into your you're showing like your light and that's why your
16:34
nose is glowing I'm
16:35
like can I do that without my nose glowing that would be great
16:38
thank you so but it
16:40
was two completely different responses but they were what I
16:43
needed in that moment
16:45
so I believe there's sometimes these bigger hands so even I
16:48
found with AI when I
16:49
push back I'm like actually no I'm gonna leave this for two
16:52
days and then I'm gonna
16:53
SPEAKER_00: come back and ask the same question and see what the responses I get and
16:57
and normally it feels better and I feel this is where it's
17:00
important to use your
17:01
own discernment and check in with your gut and your instincts
17:04
and go yeah actually
17:05
that feels more aligned that the other response just wasn't me
17:09
and that that's not
17:10
right and even I will like delete conversations because I'm
17:13
like no this is
17:14
throwing out my algorithm this isn't right let's start again
17:17
you know and come back
17:18
SPEAKER_00: from there
17:19
See that's an informed view so what you're alluding to is you
17:21
have a technology and
17:23
a biological support stack right you've got your partner you've
17:26
got your life
17:27
you've got your gut instinct from lived experience you've got
17:29
AI offering you
17:30
advice over here you've got Google over here you've got a
17:32
therapist potentially
17:33
SPEAKER_01: someone
17:34
SPEAKER_01: You've got higher powers guiding intuition.
17:37
And this is where I think people get really caught up in AI
17:40
because they're not
17:41
sense checking against lived experience or a therapist or
17:44
someone else who can
17:45
SPEAKER_01: professionally say,
17:46
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't make sense,
17:47
SPEAKER_01: but do what you do,
17:48
SPEAKER_01: stick with stuff.
17:49
And I think people who are abdicating their responsibility in
17:51
agency by saying,
17:53
SPEAKER_01: AI said I should do this,
17:54
SPEAKER_01: the same people who could eventually become serial killers.
17:57
I've just decided because the system told me to walk out in the
18:00
street dressed as a
18:01
SPEAKER_01: samurai and take on anyone who doesn't look like me.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm being very,
18:05
SPEAKER_01: very sarcastic about that,
18:06
SPEAKER_01: but I've interviewed people from my first book,
18:08
SPEAKER_01: which was talking about biologists in society.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: I had people who actually talked to me that said that their higher power,
18:13
SPEAKER_01: you might call it God,
18:14
SPEAKER_01: wherever it might be,
18:16
SPEAKER_01: or demon,
18:17
SPEAKER_01: had actually guided them to do the most higher power.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: David Pérez Pérez Pérez Pérez
18:48
SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting because the HeartMath Institute,
18:50
SPEAKER_00: I love this stuff that's coming out of there.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: They're doing a lot of research about this.
18:55
But what they actually did was they measured the
18:57
decision-making receptors in the
18:59
body and they found that the heart and the gut contained
19:02
significantly more than
19:03
SPEAKER_00: our brain.
19:04
and more so that our heart,
19:06
I think it was like 5,000 times more than our brain.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: So we actually should be going, yeah, I'll try and find the link for you.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: It's really fascinating.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: But it's like they come in,
19:17
SPEAKER_00: so really we should be making decisions,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: checking with our heart,
19:20
SPEAKER_00: go to our gut,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: like check our gut instinct there,
19:23
SPEAKER_00: and then go to our head and put it into play,
19:25
SPEAKER_00: into action on what needs to happen.
19:28
Yeah,
19:28
and I think the big part in that is actually sitting with
19:31
stuff,
19:31
right?
19:31
SPEAKER_01: So you're an informed individual,
19:33
SPEAKER_01: you know yourself,
19:34
you're listening and you're evaluating and passing information
19:37
that's coming in
19:37
SPEAKER_01: from Google,
19:38
SPEAKER_01: AI,
19:38
SPEAKER_01: friends,
19:39
SPEAKER_01: therapist,
19:40
SPEAKER_01: books,
19:40
SPEAKER_01: whatever it might be.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And then I think the thing that I've learned
19:43
the most in my journey as a human being in the last decade is
19:46
to sit with stuff and
19:47
SPEAKER_01: not knee-jerk react to making a decision and to learn to trust myself.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And the decisions I,
19:53
SPEAKER_01: when I look back now as a fully grown individual,
19:56
is that the biggest worst decisions I've ever made is where I
19:59
didn't trust myself.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: I knew somewhere that I didn't like that person.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really want to work with them.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reasons, I made the decision to do so.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'd say 80% of the time I didn't trust my gut.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: It's gone pesche.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I've learned that lesson now.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Damn it.
20:11
yeah and then you recalibrate and and learn to tune into that
20:15
quicker that's what I
20:16
teach people that's what I do but the funny thing is too I know
20:20
we were talking
20:21
about a little bit about this fear of AI replacing people and
20:25
their jobs and that
20:25
sort of thing and then I had a beautiful example for you which
20:29
I feel to share
20:29
again which is you know when you go to the shops and you have
20:33
the self-serve
20:33
SPEAKER_00: checkout
20:34
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's not working despite you doing everything it's asked.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: You've put the,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: the product on the weight,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: you've put it in the bag,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: everything's okay and it's still blipping at you.
20:45
When that little human comes along or big human comes along and
20:49
has to fix it all,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: they're the moments that you go,
20:52
SPEAKER_00: this is why we still need humans.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: We still need humans to balance out these issues.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, how long have they had self-service checkouts now?
20:59
SPEAKER_00: They still can't get it right.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: And it amazes me how,
21:03
SPEAKER_00: and even like they try and put the cameras to scan your trolleys,
21:06
SPEAKER_00: but then they don't work,
21:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:07
SPEAKER_00: all these sort of weird things.
21:09
So it's really interesting just to see where we do still need
21:12
humans in our life too.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
21:14
there's a movie by Spike Jonze called Her with Joaquin Phoenix
21:17
that came out about
21:18
SPEAKER_01: a decade ago and Scarlett Johansson was the voice of the AI.
21:21
So everyone's walking around the world in a future that is
21:24
basically now with their
21:25
SPEAKER_01: earbuds in talking to their personal AI.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: That's talking about artificial general intelligence,
21:30
SPEAKER_01: but it was Spike Jonze actually saying,
21:32
SPEAKER_01: this is where we could end up.
21:34
And it's really kind of wonderful in some ways because it's
21:37
doing what OpenAI is
21:38
SPEAKER_01: doing and a bunch of people.
21:39
It's moving to a world where voice is the interface and the way
21:42
we interact with technology.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Willowhealing Willow
21:58
SPEAKER_01: No, self-power.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
22:24
SPEAKER_01: just like the ability to actually make sense of the world,
22:26
SPEAKER_01: make your own decisions and impact the world in the way that you want to.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Like you're doing with your job, I'm doing with technology.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: And AI cannot tell me how to do this better.
22:35
It can give me insight and I can use it to sense check stuff
22:38
and that's great.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: But I
22:39
I also have it in my life is it's one of many sources of
22:43
information I use to make
22:44
decisions but it doesn't sit above anything else and I think
22:47
that's the safest way
22:48
to apply it trust your gut ask your friends speak to a
22:51
professional read books
22:52
check Google use AI and then make a call which sounds like hard
22:56
work but we're so
22:56
used to now googling stuff and now we're AI-ing stuff you know
23:00
so it's part of this
23:01
information technology journey that is now inextricable from
23:04
human experiences
23:05
Yeah and I feel too it's like if you you know there's this
23:08
whole thing of like what
23:09
you resist persists so the more you fear it the more you push
23:13
back on it the more
23:14
you're actually missing out on saving you time you know like I
23:18
think about how long
23:19
it would take me to edit my book but when I'm putting it
23:23
through and I had to I'm
23:24
not gonna lie I had to fight AI with every chapter to make sure
23:27
it was on point and
23:28
SPEAKER_00: doing what it needed to do
23:30
but what it did was it cut out all the fluff and when you're a
23:32
writer you don't
23:33
want to let any of your words go right it's like no I can't but
23:36
then I was like
23:37
actually it really didn't need that whole paragraph you're
23:40
right I actually agree
23:41
with that so you know and it would take me like it would have
23:45
cost me thousands of
23:46
dollars to have another editor go through it again and do all
23:48
of that right so this
23:49
is where embracing it and allowing it to support you as a tool
23:53
exactly how you said
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Chris is so important
23:56
SPEAKER_00: It's just another tool, right?
23:58
It's another way that you can access information,
24:00
but also think about it too.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
24:03
it's interesting because if you assign AI a role in your life
24:07
and then you keep it
24:08
SPEAKER_01: to that bucket of what it's doing.
24:10
So my first book I wrote after I did my postgrad in creative
24:12
writing in 2012,
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I wrote and released it in 2015.
24:17
I paid thousands for people to edit that and my last two books
24:21
used I moved from
24:22
Grammarly which was used to be the standard right to using
24:26
Claude because it's a
24:27
really good engine for actually editing creative works and it
24:31
would do it in like
24:32
SPEAKER_01: that I
24:33
I sent a chapter to two editors and said I'll pay you for this
24:36
edit off you go put
24:38
it through Claude and got mine back in real time got the edits
24:43
back from those
24:43
other people ran into the system and said now could you improve
24:46
upon them notably
24:47
SPEAKER_01: different right but
24:48
Editing and writing is very individualistic and so these
24:51
generalist platforms can
24:52
SPEAKER_01: make it better.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: But I think what we all have to do is say,
24:55
SPEAKER_01: okay,
24:56
SPEAKER_01: is AI a good tool for me to find out what makes me happier?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Great.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: So how do I find out if I'm truly happy?
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Literally one of the top 10 questions people ask in different ways,
25:05
SPEAKER_01: how do I know if I'm truly happy or I'm at this point in my life,
25:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel satisfied,
25:09
SPEAKER_01: which usually happens in early 40s.
25:12
I think it's going to creep closer because younger people are
25:15
just more erudite and more astute.
25:18
what's important and so we are just the most basic questions
25:21
that we're asking the
25:22
assistants and if you want to be a coach or like your uncle
25:25
that you can trustfully
25:26
say something to then great but if you want it to be more
25:29
specific and become a
25:30
doctor or a therapist then you're looking in the wrong area
25:33
yeah 100% and I think
25:35
that's kind of where everyone's freaking out you know and it's
25:38
like well you can
25:39
use it to give you some guidance like here are my symptoms what
25:42
would you possibly
25:43
SPEAKER_00: recommend I do you know and then
25:46
hopefully if you've got it well trained or you're using a
25:50
platform like you've
25:50
created Chris it'll go okay here are the professionals you
25:53
might want to seek out
25:54
or these are some people that you want to go to I'm assuming
25:57
that's where the
25:58
bridge is where you're where you're headed the big thing is
26:01
it's about helping you
26:03
get started on the journey not being the end point and also
26:06
being a good supplement
26:07
SPEAKER_01: to any
26:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm
26:22
I've got a system over here explaining something that my
26:24
therapist just told me I
26:25
ruminate on that for the six days before my next therapy
26:28
appointment and I bring it
26:29
to him and I'm like dude this is what the AI told me is this
26:32
correct am I losing my
26:33
shit what do I need to do is just you know clarify this for me
26:36
and for the most
26:37
SPEAKER_01: part
26:37
SPEAKER_01: But with micro-therapeutic CBT-based interactions where it's saying,
26:41
SPEAKER_01: this is how you reflect his little questions to be thinking about,
26:44
SPEAKER_01: it's spot on.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And I've got clinicians all over the world saying,
26:47
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
26:47
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
26:47
SPEAKER_01: for the micro-therapeutic stuff to get you started,
26:50
SPEAKER_01: it's a great space because when you think about
26:52
SPEAKER_01: What the math is is going to explain this issue in a very different way.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: There's one professional mental health therapist or clinician in the
27:07
SPEAKER_01: in the Western world for 7,000 people.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: So if you take the WHO stats,
27:12
one in eight people on the planet has some form of mental
27:14
health disorder ranging
27:15
SPEAKER_01: from anxiety,
27:15
SPEAKER_01: depressions,
27:16
SPEAKER_01: through to my end of the pool,
27:17
SPEAKER_01: which is everything from bipolar,
27:19
SPEAKER_01: complex PTSD,
27:19
SPEAKER_01: whatever,
27:20
SPEAKER_01: and one in eight people on the planet,
27:21
SPEAKER_01: right?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: So that's almost a billion people.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: And we have one therapist, 7,000 people,
27:26
and then most people won't even seek therapy because they can't
27:28
afford someone,
27:29
SPEAKER_01: they can't find someone or there's too much stigma.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: You can understand why we're turning to AI.
27:33
But AI without scrutiny and mindfulness and a bit of awareness
27:38
and self-reflection
27:39
SPEAKER_01: can be incredibly dangerous.
27:40
And that's kind of what I've committed to for the next few
27:43
years of my life is
27:43
making sure that if my daughter or my friend's kids or whatever
27:47
go onto these
27:47
SPEAKER_01: platforms,
27:47
SPEAKER_01: which we know they're doing more than grownups,
27:50
SPEAKER_01: is we've got to make it safe.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: It's our duty of care to actually make sure we do no harm.
27:54
which is what Google originally came out to say we do know evil
27:57
but you could find
27:58
a whole entire news on Google how to make a pressure cooker
28:01
bomb that's how the
28:02
guys who bombed Boston it's like all these platforms they bring
28:06
with them all these
28:06
promises of connection social media was supposed to connect AI
28:10
is dividing us but
28:11
AI could also be harnessed to actually bring us back together
28:14
so I think it's a
28:14
really challenging but interesting time to be alive yeah I call
28:17
it the popcorn era
28:18
like you know just pull out your popcorn and see the show see
28:21
what's going on
28:25
you're also being a little bit inauthentic there because you're
28:27
in the mix you're
28:27
actually being part of the show I am in the mix but at the same
28:30
time when it comes
28:31
to like politics or what's happened on the world stage I sit
28:34
there and I'm like
28:34
okay do I need to get pulled into this or do I stay neutral and
28:38
so I choose to stay
28:39
SPEAKER_00: neutral and that's when I pull out my popcorn
28:42
and right so whereas when I'm you know sharing it's like okay
28:46
well let's not lose
28:47
your voice in this you know let's still come back to you and
28:51
learn how to play with
28:52
this because it's not going away and we get the watered down
28:55
version this is what
28:56
people don't realize we get the watered down version there's
28:59
already more advanced
29:00
versions happening in the military and everything like you know
29:03
what you were
29:03
sharing you had phones before everyone else did right like all
29:06
those sorts of
29:07
SPEAKER_00: things
29:07
SPEAKER_00: We're getting the watered down version.
29:09
So what is it potentially able to do at this bigger level and
29:13
when we go higher again?
29:15
Look,
29:15
we're looking at,
29:16
I was doing some research online about quantum computing,
29:19
right?
29:19
So these are computers that are dealing with things like
29:24
particle being able to sit
29:25
in two different places at the same time across different sides
29:28
of the planet.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: This one reacts, this one does exactly the same thing, right?
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, quantum entanglement.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
29:35
So entanglement basically changes the way we think about stuff
29:39
that energy can
29:42
SPEAKER_01: attach,
29:42
SPEAKER_01: connect and work together in different locations and time and space.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: and this changes the way that computing computes.
29:50
So China's got a quantum computer that is ridiculous,
29:53
which is going to change.
29:54
So Transformers changed large language model generative agents
29:58
dramatically.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: We're able to process more information, make better predictions faster.
30:02
Quantum computing is going to exponentially grow that byte to
30:05
the factor of 10 plus,
30:06
easy.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: And that's coming down the pipeline really, really soon.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: So this is, if we don't get used to and put in
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Safeguards and everything else right now in this AI space.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And if you've got an issue with it,
30:18
SPEAKER_01: raise your hand,
30:18
SPEAKER_01: speak to your senator,
30:19
SPEAKER_01: speak to the technology companies,
30:21
SPEAKER_01: be heard by all means.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: But if you're not going to,
30:24
SPEAKER_01: if you want AI to be safer in the world,
30:26
SPEAKER_01: you need to weigh in,
30:27
SPEAKER_01: I guess.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: Practice it, use it, use it with the caveat that it's not always true.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: So test it against your gut, as I said, books, whatever.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: But...
30:36
I don't think AI needs to be so scary I think because it's so
30:40
new it's actually
30:40
scary because you know what was once heresy is now commonplace
30:43
was a common phrase
30:44
from the 1800s and 1900s that this is becoming very normal to a
30:48
lot of people
30:49
already especially younger generations because it's their first
30:51
safe space they've
30:52
SPEAKER_01: ever had because Facebook those kind of groups got them really
30:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
30:57
And now we've got this new environment where you can reflect in
31:01
real time,
31:01
SPEAKER_01: get some growth and guidance.
31:03
And so I think the ones who are most scared about AI are the
31:06
entrenched people in
31:07
SPEAKER_01: society who don't want change.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately,
31:10
SPEAKER_01: we live in an era and we've lived in two,
31:12
three generations of exponential technological change that is
31:15
having impacts we
31:16
SPEAKER_01: still are yet to understand.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: But I don't think you can throw the baby out with the bathwater.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: I think you actually have to lean into it because it's not going,
31:22
SPEAKER_01: as you've said,
31:22
SPEAKER_01: and I've said a couple of times,
31:24
SPEAKER_01: it's not going anywhere.
31:24
No and I feel too you know like even I've talked to like
31:28
professionals like lawyers
31:29
and solicitors who are like yeah we use we use AI all the time
31:32
to go do our
31:33
research for us because it can scan and read that many laws or
31:37
that many articles
31:38
or that many decisions in real time like super quick compared
31:42
to them spending
31:43
hours and hours doing that and that's manpower they could be
31:45
doing something else
31:46
SPEAKER_00: right like so this is where
31:48
You'll be mindful and you adapt to how you want it in your life
31:51
and how you choose
31:51
SPEAKER_00: for it to show up.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Personally, I don't sleep with my phone next to my bed.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't like any of that stuff.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: That's my choices.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Some people I know have their watch on them 24-7.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: That's their choice too.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: It's your sovereignty.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: You get to choose how this shows up in your life.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: But don't discount yourself in all of that.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: You still have something amazing to offer and serve.
32:15
you know even if it is like Chris is creating safer elements
32:18
for that or you might
32:19
just want to share your story or whatever it is so just trust
32:22
that but what you're
32:23
describing is responsible mindful AI usage right it's the same
32:27
as any technology we
32:28
all have the technology on our phones right now to do creepy
32:31
things or do wonderful
32:32
things like I remember Brandon who was the guy who did Humans
32:35
of New York he
32:36
SPEAKER_01: started walking around New York taking photos of people putting
32:38
SPEAKER_01: on Instagram and Pinterest and stuff and just saying, what's your story?
32:41
SPEAKER_01: What's your interesting thing?
32:42
He took a mobile phone and created this incredible
32:44
multi-million following.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: He was on HuffPost, the news, whatever.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: He was just someone who was really interested in human beings.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I think he was not failed,
32:52
but he was struggling as somebody trying to get out there and
32:55
get his name out
32:55
SPEAKER_01: there.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: And he tapped into something really beautiful that every person's unique.
32:59
Every person's wonderful in their own right and he's got
33:02
something interesting
33:02
about them that we don't know and everyone's going through
33:04
stuff that we don't
33:05
SPEAKER_01: know.
33:06
and he was able to use a common technology in a new way that
33:09
brought people
33:09
together and I do believe that AI could be that new platform to
33:13
actually be a way
33:15
that nudges us back towards human connection and I've used it
33:18
and I talk about it
33:19
SPEAKER_01: with my therapist introvert
33:20
I don't like being in rooms of strangers and being at
33:22
conferences and things,
33:23
SPEAKER_01: but I fake it until I've done my job,
33:25
SPEAKER_01: then I get out and vomit and go back about my life.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: But I've used AI to practice how to actually engage in rooms where I feel
33:33
SPEAKER_01: uncomfortable and it's been a useful resource.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: it's what you make of it,
33:37
SPEAKER_01: but it's people who just,
33:38
the people who scare me the most are people who don't think to
33:41
think or question
33:42
SPEAKER_01: what AI says to you,
33:43
because you're the ones at risk that I have to build technology
33:46
to make sure that
33:47
SPEAKER_01: if you are trusting without questioning,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: how does the system actually respond?
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Willow
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Director to a Professional, right?
34:07
These are the kind of interesting use cases that AI can already
34:10
perform if you use
34:11
SPEAKER_01: mindfully and if you choose to use it that way.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually,
34:14
SPEAKER_01: as I said,
34:15
pragmatically positive about the future of AI because there's
34:18
people like you and I
34:18
discussing this and there's a bunch of people behind the scenes
34:21
doing some
34:22
SPEAKER_01: absolutely mind-blowingly beautiful work to keep us safe and to make AI a
34:26
SPEAKER_01: meaningful part of all of our futures.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Very well summarized.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: My favorite example that I've heard recently is,
34:33
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:34
SPEAKER_00: this is where you don't discount yourself.
34:36
So you go to leave for the day and you kind of stop at a moment
34:39
and something in
34:40
SPEAKER_00: you just says,
34:41
SPEAKER_00: grab an umbrella,
34:42
SPEAKER_00: right?
34:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's that gut instinct can feel the rain coming.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, I'll just check my weather app.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And the weather app says bright and sunny skies.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be fine.
34:54
Sure enough two hours it starts raining you've just discounted
34:57
your gut over and
34:58
use technology instead so this is where check in with yourself
35:01
first you know and
35:03
trust that trust what comes through because sometimes our inner
35:06
knowing knows more
35:07
I think you see it more in what you do professionally because
35:09
you're talking to
35:10
people about empathy vulnerability authenticity and mindfulness
35:13
and I don't think I
35:14
think we're so distracted by technology and life and
35:16
Kardashians and everything
35:17
else that's going on that we don't actually know how to check
35:21
in with ourselves and
35:22
SPEAKER_01: it's been the biggest thing in my
35:24
I've had every single practitioner say spend time in reflective
35:30
meditation,
35:30
SPEAKER_01: see what bubbles up.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: There's no goal outside of just focus on your breathing,
35:34
SPEAKER_01: see what bubbles up,
35:34
SPEAKER_01: acknowledge it,
35:35
SPEAKER_01: let it go.
35:35
Listening to yourself is not something we think about in an age
35:38
of consciousness.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at phones,
35:40
SPEAKER_01: we've got earbuds in,
35:41
we're looking at a screen with Netflix constantly on and the
35:44
most important thing
35:44
we do is stop and just listen and I think that has actually
35:48
served me more through
35:49
thousands and thousands of dollars and hours of psychotherapy
35:54
and meditation and
35:55
whatever but listening to myself and trusting my gut and so I
35:58
walked out the other
35:59
SPEAKER_01: day and I'm in Brisbane so the rain can come in like that
36:03
up 20 minutes I was walking outside walked out the front door
36:06
exactly to the point
36:07
of what you just discussed walked out with the dog sniffed the
36:09
air I knew it was
36:10
going to rain in 15 minutes because we learnt in the field with
36:12
the military what
36:12
that smells like went back inside got his little raincoat got
36:15
my umbrella and we
36:16
SPEAKER_01: went back out and 12 minutes later it rained so yeah trust your gut
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: And as we start to finish our time together,
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Chris,
36:24
SPEAKER_00: I asked the guests that come on the show,
36:25
SPEAKER_00: if you could heal or change something in the world,
36:28
SPEAKER_00: what would it be?
36:29
I think the thing I changed in the world is the thing that
36:32
actually came about with
36:32
SPEAKER_01: social media.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: We are so now externally focused around
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Likes, public acceptance, being seen, being influenced, whatever.
36:39
If we could just get back to people just trying to be authentic
36:42
selves and you see
36:43
them when you come across artists or speakers or novelists or
36:47
people in creative
36:48
SPEAKER_01: professions where they're incredibly authentic.
36:50
like Banksy or like a wedding dress designer whose name you
36:53
don't know but you know
36:54
her work they just do what they do they don't give us a damn
36:57
about what everyone
36:58
else thinks they're just being authentic I think I'm starting
37:01
to see over the last
37:02
decade we've lost authenticity so when you see people who are
37:05
truly authentic like
37:06
Greta Thunberg she's polarizing but she's a passionate young
37:09
person who's actually
37:10
moved the needle right she doesn't care about popularity and
37:13
obviously that's maybe
37:14
part of her mechanic as well too I think we need to return to
37:17
authenticity return
37:18
SPEAKER_00: to ourselves Be unapologetically you
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's beautiful.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to claim that.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: I said that first.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Hashtag.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's see how many likes or followers you get.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Chris.
37:31
And if people want to come and check out the platforms that
37:33
you're building or come
37:34
SPEAKER_00: follow your work,
37:35
SPEAKER_00: where's the best place they can go?
37:36
If you look up Chris Reese on LinkedIn,
37:38
you'll be able to see pretty much everything.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: It's the only social platform I'm on.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: We break news as we're doing new stuff.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, just Chris, R-H-Y-S-S on LinkedIn.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: You'll find my whole name there and yeah, you can follow me from there.
37:48
Amazing I'll put those details in the show notes for everyone
37:51
too well I hope for
37:53
everyone listening you have some insight into the AI doesn't
37:57
have to be as scary as
37:58
SPEAKER_00: we think it is but also to
38:00
I guess use your own discernment through all of that you know
38:03
check in with other
38:03
sources around you check in with the bigger things but it can
38:07
also be a powerful
38:07
tool if you choose to use it correctly so a big thank you Chris
38:11
for sharing your
38:12
knowledge and your journey and then for anyone listening if you
38:16
enjoyed this please
38:17
feel free to like lol but like share or subscribe and if you
38:22
have someone that this
38:23
conversation might resonate with feel free to direct them to
38:26
here or to Chris's
38:27
SPEAKER_00: work because it's always nice when
38:29
you share something that you feel someone else might resonate
38:31
with too so a big
38:33
thank you again Chris for being on the show and thank you to
38:35
everyone for listening
38:36
thank you for having me hey beautiful souls I wanted to have a
38:39
chat with you about
38:40
SPEAKER_00: a really amazing
38:41
Cacao that I drink to help me get in ceremony to help me ground
38:45
but also just
38:46
because it tastes freaking good so if you're curious and want
38:50
to know about
38:50
drinking something other than coffee or your standard tea why
38:54
not check out
38:55
Creation Cacao I love this with a bit of honey and cinnamon
39:00
sprinkled in and just
39:02
SPEAKER_00: letting it brew and having that whole intention as you create this cup
39:06
SPEAKER_00: So if you're curious and want to know more,
39:09
SPEAKER_00: check out the link in the show notes and enjoy your cup of cacao.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Willow Healing Matters the podcast.
39:17
We have so much love and gratitude that you are taking the time
39:20
out of your day to
39:21
SPEAKER_00: empower you on your healing journey.
39:23
The views shared by the person being interviewed might not
39:27
necessarily reflect that
39:28
SPEAKER_00: of the host and should be used in your own discernment.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Trust what resonates with you and follow your heart and soul guidance.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: If you have any underlying medical conditions or mental health
39:39
SPEAKER_00: This can be found in the show notes.
39:40
Remember to activate,
39:41
align,
39:41
heal,
39:41
empower and find love in everything that you do.