Latest / Skin Anarchy / Embracing the Winding Path to Success with NYT Bestselling & Award-Winning Author John David Mann

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Embracing the Winding Path to Success with NYT Bestselling & Award-Winning Author John David Mann · Skin Anarchy

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the new episode of Night Mondays with Skinker Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and I have such a phenomenal guest with me today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's truly a visionary and a wonderful and amazing author.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to learn from him and to learn all about the wonderful work that he's done.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I want to give you a little bit of understanding that the whole idea of this series, for those of you joining us for the first time, is to really dive into topics that are beyond beauty.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like skincare, you focus so much on brands and beauty, but it's really to mindset Mondays is all about let's talk about things that are related to our overall mindset.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that also contributes to how we feel and what we think of ourselves.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the vision with which we started it.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't think of a better guest to host.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, John David Mann, who is the award-winning author of multiple amazing books.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, John.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to host you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Ekdown.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't see my beautiful face, but I'm pleased to be here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's an honor to host you.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, really love fan of your work.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to dive into that with specific questions I have.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if you could get us started, John, it was just a walk down memory lane.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what got you into writing and going in this direction of your career?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the truth of it is, there was never a moment where I know a lot of writers who will describe how I wanted to be a writer since I was six years old or since I was a kid, I knew I wanted to be a writer.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't me.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: There was never a moment where I stood up and said, I want to be a writer.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of just happened.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: The truth is, I did a lot of different things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have kind of pinballed in my life from career to career to career.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I started out as a musician, as a composer.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was an award-winning composer when I was a kid.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: When I was in junior high school, I dropped out of school and started my own high school with a bunch of friends and went on to teach at that school.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that school had many years of success.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was kind of in education.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got involved in natural foods and natural health and kind of that whole sphere, which took me in in all kinds of places.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I ended up in business and in sales of all places.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in all of those different places, I was the guy who ended up editing the newsletter or writing the article or writing the, you know, whatever.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of fell into ghost writing, editing articles for journals that I helped co-found.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually one day I pretty much woke up and said, Hey, looks like I'm I'm a writer, which is really what I was grooming myself to be my whole life.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't realize it.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I've written over 30 books, close to 40 now, but I didn't start being a published author until I was over 50.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a latter part of my lifetime career, really.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I mean, that's so impressive.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you have such a diverse background because I feel like the culture that we grow up in, it's kind of preached to us from the beginning.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know for me it was.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm the daughter of two immigrant parents.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was like, well, you better pick your career path.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like just figure it out and just go down that path until you reach maximum at that level.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like no one really talks about how important it is to explore before you settle down into something that you think is your calling.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Completely, completely.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so many famous writers didn't have their first published until they were in their 40s or 50s or even sixties.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that today, more than ever, really, it's important to explore, it's important to pursue your passions, it's important to follow interests and develop a variety of skills and a variety of life experience.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's less true than it ever was before that the way to succeed in life is to pick a path early on, stick to it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the world is just diversifying and changing too rapidly, and we're multi-interested beings.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree more.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to ask you, John, kind of like a start-off question is because you've had this diverse career that has spanned so many different industries, different areas, and you've written such influential books.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how has your mindset really played a role in navigating these different endeavors and kind of shifting from one thing to another?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's important to cultivate your curiosity and to it's almost a cliche actor, really, isn't it?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people are always talking about having beginners' mind and not to lose sight of the curiosity we had as children, as a child.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's really a lot to that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so important to stay curious and stay inquiring and not just to settle for the assumption that, okay, the way things are now, I'm 20, I'm 30, 40, I'm 50, pick your age.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: The way things are now in my life is just the way they're going to be, is to be open to change and open to new avenues.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing though is really when I become interested in a field, I go look for role models.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like who is the best in that field and try to kind of attach myself to them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I mentioned earlier that I dropped out of high school.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've never got any degrees.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated from the school I started myself.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Does that count?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always pursued what, you know, maybe in the middle of ages would have been called an apprenticeship or a guild kind of path, where I've looked for people who excelled in the fields that interest me and made friends, connected with them, or you know, emulated them to whatever degree I could personally.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if I couldn't make personal contact, then just you know, from afar.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to have heroes that are that genuinely represent real live examples of what it is you want to do, who it is you want to be in that area, and then go pursue that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's such wise words, is what I want to say there, because I feel like that's something that, you know, I've noticed is very lacking in the sense of many people think that, you know, you can watch a clip on social media where someone's suggesting, hey, you're gonna need a mentor at some point in your life.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna need a guiding light in whatever career path you're in.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then people kind of look over that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: They like don't really follow that advice.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I always wonder to myself, why wouldn't you want to find that person who's really made it in this area and they know what they're doing and you're treating it as a learning opportunity.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I always wonder like how much of that ego plays a role in that when people make those kind of decisions when they're not open, you know, to learning.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, extraordinary though that you brought that up because it's such an important thing to really understand, and especially if you want to like grow as in any industry.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a friend who is a chef who's like an eight-time Olympian.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: There is a cooking culinary Olympics actually held every four years, just like the sports Olympics.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just an amazingly accomplished chef.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's an executive chef at one of the largest country clubs.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I mentioned because he and I wrote a book together, it's called The Recipe, and it's a parable about a young boy who's lost his dad and learns life lessons at the hands of a master chef.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I remember him saying once, you know, I look at all these chefs on these cooking shows, all these young chefs and all these cooking shows on food network, master chef, and all these shows, and they're always saying, like, I'm looking for my approach to food.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my approach to food, here's how I interpret food.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And his comment was these guys should not be all wrapped up in what is their unique signature approach to food.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: They should be learning from masters what their approach is and not putting so much emphasis on their ego and their brand.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like putting yourself at the feet of a master.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: You brought up a great point, Ecta, which is that social media makes clips, you know, YouTube clips and Instagram posts and so forth.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like everybody's so available to your phone or to your laptop that it almost feels like you're having the experience of being at the feet of a master, and you're not.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's not it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: What really is actual person-to-person interaction with somebody who is a master in their field.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And in my little book, The Goal Giver, which we'll probably mention at some point, but there's this parable called The Goalgiver, which I wrote with a friend, which is the book that I'm best known for.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And early on that book, the young guy who's the hero of the book goes to meet this legend in business and kind of marvels at how he got in so easily.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm surprised you'd open your house, you know, to a stranger on a Saturday.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the Pindar, the mentor, the guru of the story, says, you know, you'd be surprised how many really successful, accomplished people will be willing to get into dialogue with someone like yourself.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's true, it really is true.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I feel like that's the idea that it kind of baffles me is that how far removed we've become of accepting that people are willing to give, you know, and that really is something I wanted to ask you about, the Go Giver was you do explore this idea of the power of giving as a powerful business idea.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And how can that apply to businesses?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because we interview a lot of people here, and a lot of the conversations I have are around, like, for example, like, you know, entrepreneurship or executives from these large companies, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, where does that really play a role in like a team dynamic?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you were to kind of extrapolate what you've written in the Go Giver.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the Go Giver, when Bob and I wrote that, we were actually kind of a little overwhelmed at how it took off.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: It became really, really popular in, as you say, CEOs, um, big business circles, and so on.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it seemed to strike a chord with people.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: It resonated with people.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the basic idea of the book is that if you put your focus on providing value for people, on giving value, it's gonna come back to you in spades.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not some mystical thing, it's not about karma, it's not some woo-woo concept.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, there's a line in the book where the mentor Pindar says, asking the question, is this gonna make money?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: is not a bad question.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great question.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a bad first question.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: The first question you want to be, let's say you're an entrepreneur starting a business or you're creating some kind of team endeavor or you're doing something within the context of a given company.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: The first question should be, is this going to significantly add value to the people it comes in contact with?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is this gonna create value for people?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: If the answer is yes, then does it make money is a great second question.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's a lousy first question.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, let's say you're in high school or you're just in college or you're whatever, and you're just starting out in your life and you're looking at where do I want to focus on building a career?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you say, well, where can I make the most money?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is a lousy way to go carve out a career, to start looking at a career choice.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a great second question.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the first question should be where do I have a passion for something that's going to significantly add value to people's lives?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do that I'm in love with that's gonna make the people who come into contact with what I'm doing inspire them, change their lives, give them a great experience, enhance their lives, whatever, whether it's anything from cooking to creating a gizmo to offering a service in the world to whatever.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when you find that, then you've got to ask, okay, is that gonna make money and how?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's an important question.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a bad first question.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes total sense.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what that reminds me of also is in the field of medicine, we get a lot of early on, you know, there's a lot of uh scrutiny for a lot of pre-med kids, you know, because people tell them, you know, if you're going into medicine for money, this is the wrong idea, you know, like that is not what you want to do.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen this a lot in STEM careers in general, where professors are now starting to like try to educate kids on like, well, I know that it looks like this is gonna be your answer to whatever financial worry you have where you want to be, but you have to really evaluate being in a career that's associated with interacting with people is gonna require a lot of energy from you.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like instead of learning that, where it's like you're learning to then interact with people, how can I do this without losing my own energy?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like instead of doing that, there's a lot of kids who will be like, No, I'm just focused on the end game, you know, like how much money am I sold?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a very relevant topic across the board, I feel like, you know, isn't it though?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's not, and this isn't a moral issue, it's not a moral question or a moral judgment that you and I are both making.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's not that does it make money as a bad first question because there's something morally wrong with that, or it's like morally better to be a generous person.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we're saying at all.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: What we're saying it's not pragmatic, it's not practical to make that your first question because yeah, we want you to be successful, clearly.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love you to be massively successful.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: But going after a career path, as you're describing in STEM or in any kind of services or in healthcare, because that looks like it's the most lucrative, is gonna cause you to make blinkered, blinded judgments in so many steps along the way that you're gonna end up not doing a good job and not living a life that you're happy with.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do a better job, be happier, and also, by the way, be more financially successful if you put your priorities in the right order.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that actually brings me to your book, Code to Joy, because happiness really is where it's at, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel like as a society, we're just not keen on just focusing there.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: With no ifs, ands, or buts.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to get your insight here in discussing like what is that role of that happiness thing, like that component when it comes to making decisions and when it comes to taking practical steps in your overall mindset, whatever you're approaching, whether that's career, family, whatnot.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let me kind of go and sort of fork off in two different directions there, just because first off, the book itself, Code to Joy, which really was a fun book to write, a lot of the books that I've written have been in partnerships.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've co-written with people who have expertise in whatever their field is.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So Code to Joy, I wrote this with two brilliant psychologists out of Scripps Memorial in La Jolla, California.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And these guys specialize in what's called energy medicine, which is not voodoo or seances.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: It has to do with sort of treating the psychology of how trauma and past negative experiences have an impact on the body on a cellular level.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, trauma is held not just in our brains, but in our cells and the whole body.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what that book specifically deals with is an approach they have to helping you clear away some of the impact from past trauma that we may not even be aware of, that we may not even be cognizant about the having an impact in our current lives.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what that book is about.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a specific method.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But to get to your broader question about happiness, you know, the whole area of thought or a field of study in what's called positive psychology has only been in existence for two to three decades.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty new field of science.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was based on the work of some people who said, Hey, you know, psychology up until this point has all been based on what's wrong with you.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a study of sickness, the study of sickness of the but no one has really asked the question or made the inquiry what makes a healthy mind, what makes a healthy mood, what makes happiness, what are the factors that create a normal, happy person?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most significant things, I think, you know, Freud was famously asked what creates a successful, happy person.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I forget the German words, but it translates love and work.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what a lot of us have, I know I and many in my generation have grown up learning is this paradigm where we work really hard now for the sake of happiness later on.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sacrifice today for joy tomorrow.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Work hard, be industrious in our career, 40 years for retirement at the end of our lives.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what so many of us have wakened up to is that formula doesn't really work.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that there aren't times where delayed gratification is a valid tactic in life, but only to a certain degree.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to learn how to be happy today.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to learn what makes for a satisfied, happy experience of life today for you, now, not as a result of some objectives or goals that you're aiming at.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you, Ecto, for the first, I'll say 40 years, 45 years of my life, yeah, awful lot of my sense of fulfillment was wrapped up in what I hoped to accomplish.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was very much living for the future.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see this book hit a bestseller list.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait till I get to this point where my books are earning this much.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to get to this point where we live here instead of there.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's only been in the last recent years of my life, since I was maybe 50, that I suddenly woke up to the importance of being happy today, like right now.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have so much ambition.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many things that I want to accomplish that I haven't yet.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I got a lot of stuff that I still want to do that I'm burning to get done.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a lot of stuff, you know, pinned off in the future that I'm aiming at.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I no longer attach to that as my source of satisfaction.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: My source of satisfaction is right now standing here on this carpet in my little home office talking to you on this Zoom.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: My life today.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that isn't taught.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: We aren't taught how to pull, you know, how to suck joy out of the moment.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I could not agree more.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you really are telling this to everybody because I really have believed this myself for a long time.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the first time I was ever introduced to it was when I'm a millennial.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up with like discovering Wayne Dyer and Abraham Hicks and like all of these like people that were teaching about mindfulness, right?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then like you go back into like ancient Asian text, and it's all there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a message that has resonated for so many centuries, is this concept of exactly what you said, which is be here now, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like be present, enjoy every moment because that is your life.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, life is in the moment, it's not in the future.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's so it's there, but I just feel like for me, I'll tell you honestly, from my perspective, in my everyday life, there's pressures and there's different things that are urgent that come up, you know what I mean, that take me out of this moment, you know, and that's a big problem, like for me personally on my own journey to be at that place where I'm constantly in the moment.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm more curious, you know, for those of us who might struggle there, where it's like something pulls you away, you know, or it puts like immense pressure on you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know in another book I wanted to reference was Total Focus.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you talk in that book about making decisions under pressure, you know, and this makes me think of this as well because high pressure situations are very much relevant to all of us.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, how does that really tie into what you just told us?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like, no, you have to learn how to be happy in the moment.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, total focus is a fun book.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote that with a buddy of mine who is a former Navy SEAL sniper, and he was part of a platoon that was one of the first boots on the ground in Afghanistan after 9-11.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when he came back, he and a friend were tasked with renovating the sniper training program, which is probably one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult, training programs on the face of the planet, the Navy SEAL Sniper Program.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's fiendishly difficult, very high standards.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they completely renovated the program and they were supposed to bring it, you know, make it a 21st century program.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: They brought in new kinds of technology, they restructured the whole program kind of from top to bottom.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the single most important change, he says, he made in the program was instituted a syllabus of mental management, mental self-training.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It what you could call positive attitude, which sounds again kind of woo.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's those snipers are doing this stuff, but no, the importance of how to manage the inner dialogue you have in your mind, what you're saying to yourself thousands of times a day, whether it's negative, don't screw this up, or whether it's positive, this is gonna be great.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is that you're saying to yourself, how powerful a factor that is in your performance.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: He found he lowered the attrition rate in the program from like 40% to 2%.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was just astonishing.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the book Total Focus is kind of about the Navy SEAL Sniper's approach to living here in the ordinary civilian world, business and personal.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I got from my experience with Brandon in that book is they talk about the Navy SEAL Sniper, they talk about what they call frontsight focus, where they're you're looking through the scope of, and by the way, sniper's primary role in the military is not shooting and killing people.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: A sniper is first and foremost an intelligence asset.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So 99% of the time, what a trained military sniper is doing is reconnaissance.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're learning, observing, studying.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Their goal isn't to shoot people, their goal is to prevent people from being shot.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And their principal role is to observe and analyze.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So frontsight focus is ignoring everything else in the world but what you're seeing through this tiny little circle.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: at the same time, you're also aware of everything else.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually lose awareness.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually lose your peripheral awareness.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, one of the most critical parts of a sniper's training is to learn how to be aware of your peripheral field of vision and process that information while you're consciously focusing on this little tiny thumbnail size dead center in your field of vision.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And applying this to our lives, the number one principle I think out of the book is that most of us are doing too much.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Most of us are involved in too many things.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're scattering our brains in too many directions.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's this popular concept these days called FOMO.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I'm sure every one of your listeners knows exactly what that is, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fear of missing out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have a friend who talks about JOMO, which is the joy of missing out.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: The joy of missing out is learning how to say, nah, love to, but I'm gonna skip that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna read that article, I'm not gonna watch that show, I'm not gonna volunteer for that effort, I'm not gonna participate in that Zoom.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Learning how to say no and enjoying what you're missing because it's amplifying the satisfaction of what you're doing.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: To keep your life in focus, do one thing at a time and just that one thing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you describe, Ecta, is that stress and that under pressure is that a lot of that for many of us that are ambitious and doing many things, it's amplified by how many little directions you're tugging at us, you know, we can sort of never quite let go of and forget about.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, a hundred percent.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like you really, really nailed it in terms of this idea of missing out because I think a lot of ambitious people, we have, I'm sure like a lot of people out there can relate.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: How many meetings per day do you have on your calendar?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And how many of those meetings are actually something that's going to truly contribute in a really meaningful way?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that I feel like just backstory on me, John.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was in corporate for a little bit because I got sick of medicine for a year and I was like, screw it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go into corporate America and go into IT.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that, and I remember one of the biggest, like annoying things, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Was this like constant, like your calendar is booked from like 8 a.m.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: to 5 p.m.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, when am I supposed to sit down and breathe for a second?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was so much.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about how people we go through that day in and day out, and a week goes by and you don't even know that it went by because of exactly what you said.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like people are afraid to miss out, even though an event is small and it may be even irrelevant.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're still gonna go there because you're scared who's gonna show up and I'm not there, you know, or like who's doing it and I'm left behind.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this keeps coming up, you know, it just keeps coming up.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I hear about it from friends, I hear about it from our listeners that, you know, even in like skincare, for example, you know, we're a skincare podcast.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many listeners will write to me and be like, Well, wait a minute, I just bought this, but I need to also buy that too, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, you know, you don't, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really serious thing that we suffer with, I feel like anxiety where I don't know, it's just like a vicious cycle is this idea of missing out.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely resonate with everything you said.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that a lot of blame is cast at the feet of social media these days for everything imaginable.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think that the social media environment does have the effect of amplifying that because there is like I'm an author, so I write books, and what most people who aren't in publishing don't fully understand is that publishers don't sell your books, they just make them available.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Authors really have to sell their books.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Books don't sell automatically.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: If there's like four million new titles published every year, it's an enormous amount of noise out there.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when you take on the job of author, it's an entrepreneurial role, which a lot of people don't realize is like hard to make a living as an author.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you do?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things you do is you try to promote your books and social media.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, what a merry-go-round that could turn out to be.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of a sudden you're checking every platform.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're checking Twitter and TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn, and you're tracking every person that likes you, and you're responding to every one of them, and you're trying to get more followers, and you're trying to post every day, you're trying to make videos, and it's like an endless game of catch up that almost nobody can win at.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the people who do win at it, it's like their full-time job.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's all they do.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we see the people like Ben and Zara or whoever who are just delightfully having obviously a wonderful time and they got a million and a half followers, but that's like one person out of a million.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: For most of us, it's an absolute losing game.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a zero-sum game because we're in this constant chasing our tail scenario.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there has to be a sort of an accounting of what is critical, important in your life in terms of what gives you fulfillment.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like not chasing what makes money first, but chasing what gives value first and then making sure that you have a way for that to make money.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Similar here, how do I make an impact in the world?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do I, I guess I could use the word monetize, how do I design that into a life that's going to allow me to survive physically too?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, that is such a solid point.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to actually ask you because I know in the secret language of money, you really dive into the subconscious meanings of what money really means to all of us.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love for you to kind of talk a little bit more about this because I think money means so many different things.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I literally, everybody I talk to has a different connotation that they've tied with money.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like there's some people that are like, oh, well, I don't really care as long as I'm getting food on the table every day and I have the little things that make me happy.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's others who literally cannot stop chasing money.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter how much is in their bank account.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to kind of shed some light here.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You are definitely taking me on a tour of every book I've written.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I really am.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going down because there's so many good points, and I really want to get your take on it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is like an old Vermont general store where you know we're walking through the aisles and there's a little bit for everybody.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So Secret Language of Money is a book I wrote with a guy who is a former psychiatrist.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: He calls himself a recovering psychiatrist, Dave Krueger.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful man.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's now a high-level executive coach, and he is a specialist in money and thought.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess the main thing I'd say about that book is it's amazing how much our own mindset about money, our interpretation of what money means in our lives, it's amazing how much impact that has on our actual money situation.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And here's an example.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dave says he's done this for many, many years, for decades now with clients.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: He will do this quiz where he asks somebody first to say how much money they earn annually.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just say$50,000 a year, make that the number.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then they say, then we'll figure out what you would need to be making annually to get all your basic needs handled.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean by an island in the Pacific or a private jet.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean just like to handle things in your life so you had no real money worries.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Live in the kind of place you need, all the monthly bills handled, live in the style to style that you aspire to.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, it'll typically be twice that$50,000, say$100,000.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Then he'll track that same client.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And several years later, when they're actually making$100,000, they've doubled their income from$50 to$100, he'll sit them down and say, okay, now what do you make right now?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: $100,000.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: What would you need for your life to be perfect just the way you need it?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer will be$200,000.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: He said, no matter how much people make, what they think that they need to be living life the way they want, going to be about double that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which is interesting because when they then make that, it's so there's something about money and how we live that's askew there, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: For many of us.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the book really talks about.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about getting clear about what you're saying to yourself about money that's creating your reality.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people will earn up to a certain level, people in the entrepreneurial world, for example, will earn up to a certain level of income and hit a sort of a ceiling where they can't quite seem to get past that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in sales and sales management a lot, and I've seen this a lot with independent salespeople, contract agents, where they'll hit a certain sales level and they can't go beyond that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's completely 100% about the picture they have in their minds, their view of themselves and their monetary, their financial world.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really kind of fascinating.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very subjective thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I feel like that could, I mean, it's interesting you mentioned sales because I feel like a lot of people experience that in a lot of like technical professions as well.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I've seen in like, for example, like academia, like there's colleagues I've had that are like, well, once I reach like assistant professor or something, you know, I'm good.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then they can't get past that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not because they're not qualified, it's because for some reason their brain and their mind just get stuck on this idea of I can't do it, or whatever that is for them, or like some sort of subconscious hindrance that they have with breaking that ceiling and going above and beyond.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I've definitely seen it myself in other areas as well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting to see how our mind can do that, you know, and yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: This goes back again to the total focus and Brandon's finding in the seal snipers, that tremendous amount of the limitations of our capacity, technically, physically to perform is created by the picture that we painted in our minds.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And changing the picture in your head is all about changing your performance.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I'm curious though, because I think that there's a lot of things, and I mean this with all love for anyone out there who owns anything that has to do with mindfulness material, because I think there's a lot of information out here, right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of information about meditation and do yoga or go and listen to affirmations or go and listen to, you know, whatever, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so much available for people where I feel like it's almost like it's hearing some people, you know what I mean?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like in terms of like, where do I start or where do I stay rather, you know?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I got started in being more mindful by meditation, but then how do I grow in my journey?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like a lot of us hit that point.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know I have where it's like you feel like on that personal journey you're taking to kind of beat these subconscious limitations you have, you even hit those walls of I don't know how to get my personal growth to go beyond this.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when it comes to balancing that personal growth and how it's manifesting in our professional realm, what are some key insights that maybe you've seen over the course of collaborating with so many people and writing such amazing books?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are some things you've seen that have helped people get past that wall or like that could help?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's a significant piece, I guess a significant ingredient in the stew, I guess, is this whole thing of meditation, self-work and all this stuff can start to feel kind of self-indulgent.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like me, me, me, me, me.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that going back to this whole thing of does it make money is not a bad question.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a bad first question.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take money out of that and say it in a different way.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Does it help me?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is not a bad question, but it's a bad first question.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Does it add value?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does it make a difference in somebody else's life?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Does it change the world around me for the better?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great first question.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Then does that help me is a great second question.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that, you know, it's important to add into the equation the authenticity of it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what do I actually want to do?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the advantage of working lungs and a heart and a bloodstream and a brain.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I want to do with it that's going to add to the quality of life on the planet that I'm living on?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes it's important to kind of forget ourselves and just give ourselves to the world around us in whatever way that we're suited to best and that gives us the most satisfaction.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when politicians talk to us about how important it is to go volunteer, I'm never quite sure what their motive is, but it's a good thing to say.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good thing to recommend.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing as satisfying as having an impact on other people's lives.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing as satisfying as that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: As an author, it's important for me to earn a living with the books that I write because that's how I keep my lights on and food in our larder and you know, pay for the place we live.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, so is it satisfying when I get a royalty check?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I mean, sure, that's kind of the idea.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: But there is nothing as satisfying as somebody I've never met before, never heard of before, showing up in my inbox and email saying, Your book changed my life.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's no feeling.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the feeling that you get when you look down and this child you've created looks up at you.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had something to do with that, but it's giving back to me much more than I ever gave to it, you know?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about self-improvement and self-awareness and self-development.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it gets a little bit self, self, self, self, self.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that's so important to recognize.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think a lot of us can do that.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've actually noticed in the Western world, it's easier as well.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean that in the best way.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, no, I was born in India and I came here when I was five years old, and I watched my parents growing up, my whole life.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've watched them, and they grew up in rural India.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the things that they needed throughout their life is so different than the things I even need, like now.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I look back on when they were at my age, I'm like, they never even, it wasn't something on their mind.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't because it wasn't.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I look at the Western world, I'm like, we've somehow entangled ourselves so much in exactly what you were speaking on a minute ago about this whole self-self-self thing.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: How can I improve?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: How can I do this?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is like it's the most counterproductive thing if you're really trying to rise above or whatever you know the term is.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do that if you're not able to ever see the aerial view of where we are as humanity and where you are and what that means in relation to everyone around you.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this idea of like individuality, which has been cultivated in the West, I feel like has almost it's reared its ugly head in some ways because people have now used that concept of individuality and made it a self-centric, just I don't know, like this bubble that they live in where it's like you're competing with yourself, you know what I mean?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're not competing with things out here, you're competing with yourself, like the most mean individuals in your own mind, you know what I mean?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's driving them to keep it staying in the cycle.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very interesting, you know, to watch that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, like it's very, very, I don't know.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's really well said, yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really well said.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of goes back again to my friend Charles, the the chef, talking about he says all these young chefs talking about, well, my approach to cooking and what I want to demonstrate is how I see, you know, food.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Yeah, it's all about kind of me, me, me, me, as opposed to I want to participate in this amazing culinary world and you know, these incredible chefs I've learned from.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is homage to my grandmother, or this is homage to my, you know, it's when you get really caught up in the me, me, me of it, it's as you say, yeah, you're competing with a very mean competitor.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you are.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really intriguing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask you, honestly, because you have a wonderful thing that you're providing for anyone that's curious out there, which is your coaching program.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to learn more about that if you could tell our listeners about your coaching program and what it entails.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so for years I've had people who would write to me and say, I just want to ask you some advice.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Could I pay you to look at my manuscript?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Could I pay you to coach me through writing this book?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never done that, I've never charged for coaching because I could never figure out a way to take on mentees in a practical way that would work without, you know, just totally taking away time from writing.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I finally created this program where I it's kind of a hybrid between online teaching and personal coaching.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: How it works is this.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I have this one-year program where people who want to write a book sign up with my program.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I have about 30 hours of teaching of how to write a book A to Z, from the writer's mindset and how you start and how to get an idea and how to organize your workspace and your daily routine, all the way through the right characters and dialogue and plot and you know, develop the book and get an agent and publish and everything.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I have this whole curriculum.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also have, which is online, it's all you know available in video archive.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also have live coaching twice a week, where I do a I did one actually just before you and I recorded this twice a week.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have a live session where whoever wants to do that session climbs on Zoom with me and talks about where they are and any problems they're having and issues they're dealing with and questions they've got, and we talk through it and in the context of a group.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's usually like no more than three, four, five, maybe six people on the line at once.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very intimate um sort of feeling of group of colleagues, like a little college MFA program in a little liberal arts college somewhere, but it's on Zoom.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I have uh somebody in Australia, I got somebody, you know, I got people from all over the world who participate, and it's really a sweet program because people come for the instruction, but they stay for the community, they stay for the sort of support that they get.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned something late in my writing career, which I didn't really understand at the beginning, which is how valuable it is to develop friendships with other writers in my field.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that kind of atmosphere and support and camaraderie that you get, as I say, like an MFA program, which I've never done.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've never participated in myself, to recreate that with people in your own life.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so, so important.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what the program delivers.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I get to share whatever I know about writing and publishing with people, and then we also get to participate in this camaraderie of this sort of mutual support group.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's so, so cool.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's much needed.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I've definitely met people that are like, Well, I want to write my own book, but I don't even know where to start.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, exactly.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've got people in the program who are already published, got one guy who's a twice award-winning author, and I've got a quite a few people who've never even tried to write a book before.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've got people who signed up and weren't even sure what they wanted to write when they joined.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of, you know, fiction, nonfiction, novels, fantasy, memoir, you name it.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've got everything.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's really amazing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that you're doing that because yeah, it really goes back to that idea of mentorship.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I really yeah, I don't know.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just I really believe in mentorship.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, I've said it before on the show and you know, in another context, but I remember even in medicine, you know, when I was getting into medicine, I didn't have any mentors like in the beginning.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like I was dying to meet somebody, you know what I mean?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where it was like, can I please pick your brain and learn from you?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like it's just a concept that, you know, back in the day they had gurus.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a saying in like the East that says, you know, you have to have a guru if you really want to learn something in the proper way, you know, in the sense of like understand it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know, I'm just a huge believer in mentorship.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so needed.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I really commend you for starting that.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think so many people could benefit.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, a real mentor or a guru or a master or a sensei teacher originally wasn't, as you know, wasn't somebody that you follow like a messiah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't somebody you follow like, you know, an autocratic leader.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was somebody you interact with, somebody who's just done what you're trying to do.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: They've already done it, or they've done more of it, or they've done it longer, and you just interact with them.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: They know stuff you don't know.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I studied with a screenwriting teacher many years ago in Hollywood, some of the best teaching I've ever had.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy learned so many things from so many specifics of craft and technique.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: But in his top-level course, he said, you know, all these techniques, all these crafts are all valuable.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to tell you the two skills you need to be a successful A-list writer in Hollywood.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: These are the two top must-haves.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the first is to work every day on making your writing just undeniably exceptionally good.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So good that people can't deny it.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you have to get just go to the top of your craft and then top yourself.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Improve, improve, improve, improve.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got that.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing he said was to not be a jerk.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That skill is to become easy to work with.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: There we have a sort of a mythology about the prima donna person who's like temperamental and throws fits, but they're a genius and say everybody wants to work with them.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: He said it's it's nonsense.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you throw fits, if you're a prima donna, if you're temperamental, nobody wants to work with you, and they won't in Hollywood.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: They will shun you.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You will wonder why this guy hasn't made a movie in 10 years, a big movie.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's because nobody wants to work with him.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: As a writer, you have to be open to the suggestions of people who know more than you.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that to be the single most important success principle in every career I've gone through is to be, yeah, follow my own heart.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, follow the march to the beat of my own individual drummer.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, nobody knows my heart like I do, and nobody knows my dreams like I do, and yes, yes, and all that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there are people in the world who know more than I do.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: There are forces around me that have a better idea of what's going to nourish my success than I do.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta stay open.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't get that from a YouTube.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: You really can't.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's definitely so much to be learned if you follow that route.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if when it comes to learning, I think it's it's really about not really ever thinking about just, you know, what can I do?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's about, well, how much can I observe?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've noticed, you know, in my profession.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's just it's an observation.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people, my mentors when, you know, in ZEM and science, we're always like, well, science is just observation.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: The more you observe, the more you're gonna learn, you know, and it's like also like going back to what you said, like the pre-modana thing.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how many times have I know a lot of people can relate to this?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've all gone through it, where you might work with somebody who is not on the very top of your list, right?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: As your ideal person to work with, but then you see the best come out in them when you're working with them because you've cultivated an environment that's really, really conducive to interacting and and communicating, and all of that plays a role.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's such wise words, absolutely.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, but um, I want to thank you so much, John.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is so great to learn from you and to host you.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for for coming.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you are so welcome.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: We are having a good time, aren't we?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is amazing.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I could do this as many times as you know your schedule allows.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, yeah, I understand not enough time in the world to talk about these things, you know, because they're really it's the meat of the what we're doing.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate what you're doing.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I this is great.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that you have a podcast that goes in these directions.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I thank you for your far-ranging questions.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've taken me all over the map, and it's really good.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of went uh I went into all random directions, but thank you so much for entertaining that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've really, really enjoyed hosting you.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And for anyone listening, if you are interested in the mentorship program, please let us know.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: We will also be linking everything in the podcast information for this episode.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to reach out for extra details if you need them.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you again, John.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was an honor to host you.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 40:36
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• 40:41
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• 40:43
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• 41:15
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• 41:19
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• 41:24
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• 41:29
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• 41:35
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• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.