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Joshua Báez Debuting Soon? Prospect Talk, Dodgers Breaking Baseball? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with Jeff Jones. It's a media day. Jeff
• 0:13
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  Speaker 1: Well done, okay, And before we get started into the
• 0:48
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• 0:51
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• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, tell them to subscribe to Okay, So the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Cardinals did the dealing that we anticipated they would do
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: before the trade deadline. Him. I Thinky did exactly what
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: he said he would do. They made a couple of deals.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: They picked up Alexander Frias Josiah Ragsdale. Those are two
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: outfield prospects also for two pictures, Daniel Egan and Sando Santana.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: They gave up the guys that we kind of thought Jojo,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Dustin May and newpar who I figure was probably gonna
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: go because they do have some outfielders they'd like to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: eventually see. I think Him has been getting really good
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: reviews on this because of prospects they've gotten for guys
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: that aren't in their short term plans seem to be
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: legit Your.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Thoughts, Yeah, I think that they did well from both
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: an interim and or intermediate rather and also kind of
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a long term perspective. I think of the four guys
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: plus a player to be named that we'll hear about
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: later that the Cardinals brought him in the deadline, free
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Ass is for sure the guy that the people are
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: most excited about, you know, depending on which prospect service
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: you louse you use. I think Baseball America just had
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: their update out today and had him in the back
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: half of their top one hundred and out that Fangrafs
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: had him, I believe, forty third as of deadline day.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And look, if you want the optimistic version of of
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Alex Frios, I guess two things. I would point out
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: our number one Fangravs had him ranked about fifteen spots
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: higher than Zayre Hope, who was the headliner in the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Trek Schoogle deal. So that is at least, you know,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: a prospect of similar vintage where the Cardinals are ranking
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: out pretty good there. But number two, you know, when
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I talk to folks around the Brewers who know that
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: system that process a lot more than I do, the
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: explanation I got was that Frius was sort of their
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: next great Hope. You know, you look at guys like
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Jackson Chorio and Luis Laura, who were really raw athletic
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: talents that were young when the Brewers signed them. They
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: put them through their very strong player development apparatus and
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: spit out productive solid ballplayers at a really young age. Now,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: you know, that's not to say the outcomes are going
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to be identical or even similar with Freasis of those
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: two other guys. Obviously, being traded changes a lot. Being
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: a different environment changes a lot. He's eighteen years old,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: so who knows, But he at least is a guy
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: who the Brewers had an eye on being sort of
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: the next one along that path. So I think if
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: you're the Cardinals, that does give you optimism that there
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: is definitely some raw material there that you can work
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: with and that will be kind of an interesting I
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: don't know about first Facial had been kind of an
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: interesting test of the way that their revamped player development
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: apparatus can really help improve guys.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: He's the guy that from what I agreed, because I
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: haven't I saw a couple of clips.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I've seen him swing, yep.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people love a swinging He drives the ball, hard
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: line drive type guy. The other outfielder, Ragsdale. Everyone raves
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: about this guy's emerging power. They didn't think he was
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: going to be a power hitter. He's showing power. He's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: a guy with speed. He's got tools too. He's another
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: interesting guy to keep an eye on.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that you know on on deadline. Gay
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Lance Prostowski, who works at Marquee among other places, has
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: sort of made a name for himself merging kind of
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: data stuff with prospect stuff. Pointed out that the type
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: for heim Bloom, at least recently has been if you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: swing hard and make hard contact, the Cardinals will be interested.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And you know, the number that you saw going around
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: about free us on deadline day was that he's got
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: a max exon velocity on record of like one seventeen,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: which is pretty hard to do when you're eighteen years old, right,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: That tells it, and the pop is definitely in there.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: And Ragsdale is a guy where the home have jumped
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: this year. Now he's a double A. The Homers tend
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: to jump at double A just going to give in
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: the league, in the ballpark and the run environment down there.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: But all of the data would tell you that that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: is pointed in a really strong direction for him. So
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: you know it's as of today, August fifth, two days
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: after the deadline, it's hard to complain about anything the
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Cardinals did on deadline Day. They did what they had
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: to do more or less, and got away with you
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: know what looks like some interesting pieces and check back in,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe two or three years. In Raxdal's case
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: maybe three four, five years, and in the case of
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Frios and in the case of some of the pitching,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the pitching probably a little bit closer. Actually, with poll
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Vegan in Santana, check back in a little bit and
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: see if there's perhapsive big leaguers in there.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: What percent because we were talking about this before we
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: rolled the tape, what percent of top ten, top fifteen
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: prospects eventually become all stars? Now I did ask Rock
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and I think I said the year two thousand, what
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: percentage become all stars? And Grox said in that fifty
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: percent range, which seemed to high to me. Look, you
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: roll on the dice with the prospects because you're dealing
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: with human beings, and no one can really predict outside
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: of the can't miss guys, right, no one can predict
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: how they're going to get to the next level and
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: how they react to that and then readjust and get
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: to the next level. It's a difficult thing. But I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: think Kim's done the right thing because you overcome odds,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: what's sheer numbers right, and he has accumulated a ton
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: of young controllable talent, which speaks well for the future
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of the Cardinals under hind Blue. Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: You know, you saw some folks pointing out in the
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: immediate aftermath of the deadline that the outfield, for instance,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: at Springfield is really really crowded right now. There is
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: a push for it bats right now. You know. I'm
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: sure we're going to talk about this later, but there's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: enough catching with the Cardinals at the upper levels that
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it's hard to figure out where all of these guys
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: fit right now. That is to the credit of both
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: this front office and the prior front office. Some of
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: these guys were brought in under Jean mose Locke and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: part of that administration as well, But definitely you have
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: seen an accumulation of talent now. You know. The one
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: thing I would point out here, and I wrote about
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: this on Monday, is that this is the part of
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a rebuild that is supposed to be the easy part, right,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the tear down part, the part where you trade away
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the guys whose control is dwindling and you get back
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the giant pile of scratch offs. This is the part
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: that you have to be able to do right. The
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: hard part is the development part. And executing and keeping
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the guys in the system that you want to be
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: a part of that. And I thought that it really
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: stood out to me that while the Cardinals are doing
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: this executing this deadline day where they are an ultimate seller,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the Red Sox are trading Marcelo Meyer to San Francisco
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: for a left handed reliever. Now it's a good reliever
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: with control. Eric Millers is a good left reliever who
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: will definitely help Boston. But Marcella Meyer eighteen months ago
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: was like an untouchable top ten prospect in all of
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: baseball and was, you know, give or take a Romanante,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: kind of like the crown jewel of the Red Sox
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: system when Bloom was running it. And now he is
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: being moved at the deadline in his like his second
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: big league season for relief help and is a far
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: below average at this point major league hitter. Which is
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: all to say that development is not linear, it's not simple,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: it doesn't come easily for all of these guys. Whatever
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: you think that you have in tools right now, you're right.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: The only way that you can be sure that you're covered,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: if you're a team, is to throw numbers at the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: problem or to throw numbers in a situation, I guess,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: because not all of these guys are gonna work out,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: and even guys who you would say were no doubt
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: or is you know, I in my time around the Cardinals,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the most absolute slam dunk, no doubt prospect that I
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: saw up close was Alex Rayes, no doubt, absolute, no doubter,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: and the body fall apart. His arm is good in
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the hold up. And so there are things like that happened,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and the only way that you overcome that is through depth.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: That's a shame what happened ter Reyes, because he went
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: through a laundry list of injuries and I remember seeing
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: him when he first came up, and you saw this
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: guy was different. It's a shame because I really had
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: high hopes for that guy. But again, you know, the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: only way to beat the odds is with volume, and
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I think the Cardinals have approached it the right way
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: because they're not a farm system where there's two or three,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: as you would say, Crown jewels, and if you crap
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: out with those then you got nothing. They have a
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: lot of talent at a lot of different levels, so
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: hopefully they can develop it. You mentioned the catching situation,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and I was certain that the Cardinals would in the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: mix have a catcher in there because they have depth
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of catcher, but also because they want to give paths
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: to people, and I think it's a little overcrowded. Now,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: were you surprised that a catcher wasn't involved.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It was I expected in the Treddity catcher. I thought
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: it would almost certainly be Pedro Pahz. You know, when
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: you sort of read into some of the reporting that
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: was going on around the deadline around von Herrera for example,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: to me, what I take that as was teams calling
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: me talk about catching the Cardinals wanting to talk about
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Paz and other teams wanting to talk about Herrera. That
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: was at least how I interpreted some of that, And
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. Obviously. Herrera is a guy who, you know,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: last year we sort of saw what the offensive potential is.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: This year hasn't really been there. So if you're a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: team that's going to be opportunistic, I can see where
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you would maybe view him as a potential by low
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: sort of candidate. You know, I've talked about this a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: little bit over the last couple of the last couple
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of days, just in the context of the broader season.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: To me, the guy who has been honestly disappointing this
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: year has been Jimmy Crooks, because if you had asked
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: me on Valentine's Day, I would have told you that
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Crooks by this point in the season would have probably
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: taken over as the starting catcher, no doubt, and been
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a productive hitter. And he really hasn't been. He's been
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: pretty significantly below Big Way gaverage hitter even for a catcher,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: has been a below average hitter. I think the handling
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: of the staff has left something to be desired. I
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: think that the blocking has been a real problem with
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Crooks throughout this year. And you know, it's it's
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: hard not to look at this year as a step back.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: At the same time, he's still want twenty four to
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: twenty five years old. If that a guy who I
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: think they do have a lot of belief in, a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: guy who has a lot of fans among the pitchers
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: that are sort of of his vintage, right Him and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Quinn Mathews are especially close him. Michael mcgreeve, you have
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: a good relationship. So there are things that you see
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that that make it that you see the optimism there,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: but you do have to start clearing some of these
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: guys out because Leo Bernal is having a really strong
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: season in Memphis and is not only like close to
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the big leagues, he's on the forty man right. He
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: is part of the conversation and part of the day
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to day here and may still even be someone that
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: we see in the big leagues before this season is up.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think it's entirely possible, if not,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: if not probable, that they will need to clear this
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: up over the winter. Now, you know, does that shock
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: me that they weren't able to do it at the deadline.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Your opportunity is stick of the deadline because teams are
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: moving guys around. But I can understand where if you're
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: heinm Bloom, you don't want to feel like you're boxed
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: in and have to make a move rather than wanting
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to make a move. But it definitely does feel like
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: something that is going to require a resolution, maybe sooner
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: than later.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a fan of crooks behind the scenes. I watched
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the way you know he is in those meetings, takes
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: everything very seriously. But I agree he has work to do.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: He's young enough to get there though, and I just
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: think what he brings to the table that skill set
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: is pretty impressive. You know, there are so many things
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to do during the summer, and that's where our friends
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: at sea geek come into play. Sea Geek has seventy
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: thousand events listed on their website. I'm talking about sports, concerts, festivals,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and they have such a wide variety, Like whatever your
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: interests are, go to see geek and they'll find something
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: for you. And we have a special deal for you.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: If you go to sea Geek and you use code
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Territory ten, you'll get ten percent off your next purchase
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: of MLB tickets. Seek Geek is the official marketplace of
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, so we say thank you seek Geek.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: All right, after the trade deadline came and went, the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Cards decided we're going to send down Quinn Matthews. I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: get it. Hunter Dobbins in the rotation, I think, quite frankly,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: he's earned it. But they also bring up Prieto. People
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: thought they were going to see Joshua Bias right the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: way I tell in my little circle, come the sixteenth,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you're going to see these guys, right, Because if you wait,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: then you don't jeopardize rookie status.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Explain that to people in a better way than I can.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So the way the rule is written is that in
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: order for a team to be lligible for what they
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: call the PPI pick, the Prospect Promotion Incentive pick, a
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: player on your active roster has to have rookie status, right,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: has to has to be inside your top whatever prospects
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: and have rookie status going into a season. We saw
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: this in twenty twenty three with Mason win where the
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Cardinals thought maybe he'd be a candidate for twenty twenty
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: four Rookie of the Year. And if you, I don't
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: even think you have to win, I believe if these
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: need to be a finalist in the top three in
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: the Rookie of the Year voting, and then the team
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: receives not only a supplemental draft pick as a reward
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: essentially for promoting a prospect, but also kind of more crucially,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: you get the bonus pool money that comes along with
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: that pick. Right, And so it benefits a team to
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: not only promote their prospects early, but also to have
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: those prospects be technical rookies in order to do that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So in this case, the rule is that in order
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to be considered a rookie, a player cannot exceed forty
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: five days of major league service time or one hundred
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: and thirty et bets for a position player. So we
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: saw this with Mason Winn in twenty twenty three, where
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: he was promoted on the exact day where he would
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: have exactly forty five days of service at the end
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: of that season. This year, in this case with Biaz,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I have to double chuck the math, but I believe
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: that would fall on August fifteenth or sixteenth, So either
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: the Saturday or Sunday of the series at Wrigley against
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the Cubs next weekend would be when Bias would be
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: eligible or not eligible, but when Bias would fall inside
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of that forty five day period where he would still
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: be guaranteed to maintain his rookie status for next season.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I do think that is a major factor in sort
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: of timing out what the promotion looks like. You know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: in terms of prieto, I think that this is a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: guy who has been a good soldier for a long
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I say a long time. He's been a cardinal since
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: they make dream Big got him the Jack Flaherty trade.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Also in twenty twenty three, but has been a good
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: soldier for a couple of years, has been a productive
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: triple A player was not you know, I think was
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: like over fifteen, over sixteen when he was up briefly
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: in the big leagues earlier this season. So it hasn't
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: shown a lot at this level. But a guy who
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: the cardinalsy at least can trust to be a part
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: of that bench. And also, you know, there is something
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: to when you're at this point in the season rewarding
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: guys in the organization with time, if you can reward
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: them with it in order, you know, in order to
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: kind of like you keep folks happy, right, Like, this
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: is a human thing. There is a side of this
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: business that does require teams to be involved in that.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: All of that to say, I don't think, sayzar Prieto
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: is a guy who's playing time they are especially concerned
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: about protecting. I don't think he is a guy whose
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: development is maybe like real high on their list of priorities.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And so if somebody is going to come to the
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: big leagues and more or less sit on the bench
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: for twelve days before Josh Biaz is under series consideration,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Preato is sort of the guy who fits into that gap. Now,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: that's not to say that it's a guarantee that Biaz
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: comes up on August sixteenth. There are sincerely some real
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: concerns about the way that some of the things have looked.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: It has been better recently, but it has been a
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: little bit cyplical this season in terms of going through
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: stretches where the whiff is really really high. He's just
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: not making nearly enough contact to access the power that
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: he has. And you know, the Cardinals have seen this before,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: right Like, he's not Nolan Gorman, They're not the same player,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: but they do know what it looks like when you
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: have a guy whose primary tool is power that he's
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: not able to access because the contact tool is not
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: strong enough for the big leagues. At the moment, Bias
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: does a lot more things, I think, all over the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: field than Gorman does, sort of broadly, but I do
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: think that there will at least be I guess the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: thing to say is, I'm not certain that it is
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a foregone conclusion that Bias is in the big leagues
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: on August sixteenth. I do think it's more likely than not.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, if I were betting, I would say yes,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: part of it, I agree is Cardinal fans are itching
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: to see him, and if it doesn't getting away of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: his progress, I would say the Cardinals will be on
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: board with him, mostly because, like we saw last night,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: they put out a lineup. I don't think it inspired
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. You want to give your fans something, right,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, you talked about being human. You want
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: to kind of reward your fans too. It doesn't hurt
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: anything to let them take a peek at this guy.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I understand the swing and miss rate for him is
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a little high, but like you said, he's getting better
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and I think fans want to see him. I think
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: there's a good chance we're going.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: To see him.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. So the Cardinals make
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: their moves and again well received, kudos to them, But
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: what about the rest of the season. Is it just
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: giving guys pathway? What's in it for the fans to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: stay tuned? Because look could be a lockout coming. Baseball's here,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: fans want to enjoy it. What are we going to
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: see the rest of the way this year?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, when I think about what the rest
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: of this season looks like, I do think a lot
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the end of that twenty twenty three season, And I
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: feel bad what I mentioned these guys in this context
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: because the veterans that they brought in that pitched for
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that team at the end of that year were nice
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: guys who worked hard, who gave their best of the
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Cardinals did what they could, but like Casey Lawrence and
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Andrew Suarez did not need to be pitching every other
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: day for any big league team in twenty twenty three,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and they just were there to soak up innings for
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: those Cardinals, right like you look at the lineup from
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the last day of the regular like you know, again,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: these things are always offward because these are these are
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: professional athletes who worked really hard to get where they
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: were at. But on the last day of the regular
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: season in twenty twenty three, Ali Marmle made a concerted
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: effort to get Irving Lopez every opportunity to record a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: hit in the big leagues because everyone kind of knew
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: that Irving Lopez was never going to be back in
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the big leagues again, and it didn't happen. Nice guy
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: made it to the major leagues. Good for him. All
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: of that to say, I don't know that that necessarily
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: brought out a lot of excitement how that team looked
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: down the stretch, and I don't know that it was
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the best development environment either. You know, when I spoke
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to Mason Win before the deadline kind of about what
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: he was expecting, and he was pretty upfront in terms
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of not only saying he expected them to trade just
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: about everyone, but also in terms of, you know, describing
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: when he came up in twenty twenty three, even in
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: the middle of August. You know, he described a clubhouse
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: where everybody was ready to be done or guys were
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: eager to get out of there, and nobody was hanging around,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: nobody was really wanting to stick around and do a
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: lot of extra work because everyone knew that the season
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: was pretty well cashed at this point at that point. Rather,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and this team is not in nearly so deep a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: hole as that team. You Know, this team goes on
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: a stretch where they went like seven of nine, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you're looking around and going, yeah,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: they're game and a half bag. Okay, hey have fun
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and if that's what it takes, then go for it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: That's not the primary goal for them moving forward. The
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: primary goal is I think to maintain a competitive environ
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: that looks a little more representative of the product they
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: want to have on the field, and that, frankly, to me,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: explains why they would go and get killed Ferguson, right,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: like kiled, Ferguson is not necessarily a market mover, but
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: he's a bona fide big league relief pitcher. The guy's
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: got seven years in the big leagues. He's a left
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: handed reliever who you can trust to take the ball
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and get guys out once in a while. Right, You
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: do need, I think, to maintain a baseline level of competence,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: if nothing else, because otherwise you end up with environments
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: that are not going to be good for anybody's development,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: or fun for fans, or good for anyone at all.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. I want to ask you about
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Mason Win then we'll move on. I'm a big Mason
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Win guy. I have since they drafted him, and he's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: had some injuries along the way. I was surprised that
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: lancelin I put him on the spot on this podcast
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and said, give me, if you were aind blow and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: give me a controversial move. Wasn't his idea, but he
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: mentioned something about trading Win. I just want to because
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: he brought up some points too that you know, you
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: got to keep one happy, and he was the guy
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: then and he wanted to lead off. And then they
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: bring in JJ. They signed JJ and he leads off,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: which he's been fine, and also he gets the extension,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and you wonder, do you have maybe some Bruce feelings
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: from Mason Win? And the reason I ask you this,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to put it in context. I think
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Mason Win and JJ weatherholt up the middle, and I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: think we're seeing Win start to hit more. I think
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that's in his future too, He'll tap into his offense.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I think that's the future of the team. Outside of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: starting rotation, it's those two up the middle.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Do I have it wrong? I think the challenge with
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Wynn is going to be kind of where he is
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: at in his career control wise and where the Cardinals
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: are at in their competitive cycle. He will be first
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: time oritration eligible this winner. This is the end of
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: his third full big league season, so he'll go into
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: our for the first time this winner. So you're talking
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: about three more years of team control with Mason Win.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, even if the Cardinals were eager to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: discuss an extension with him, and I'm not of the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: belief that they are at the moment. It would be
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: difficult because if you're the Cardinals, you would be approaching
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Mason Win after what is undoubtedly, or I shouldn't sayundoubtedly,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: what you sure hope is a really down offensive season
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: for him, and you would be approaching him for an
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: extension with that as his most recent body of work.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: And if you're Mason Win, I'm sure you're making the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: argument that I'm a better offensive player than this. You know,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: look at last year, look at how what the production
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: has been in years prior. Maybe this year you would
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: say is some sort of aberration for him, but that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that's a tough sell and that it's hard for the
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Cardinals to make that kind of commitment. And so, okay,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: if the extension is not there, if we're talking about
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: going into a situation where whether there's an extended works
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: age or not, who knows what the union environment looks
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: like next spring, But a time folks reconvene and and
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: start having those conversations. And then now you're talking about, okay,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: does Win have like two years of team control left
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: before it becomes time to talk about an extension, and
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: if so, what does the development process look like behind
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: him and who's doing what? And is Jizouspa as a
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: third baseman? Is he a second basement and he was?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: If he's a second baseman, is whether hold a short style?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: There are all these things that can happen over the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: next year or so, and it's unfortunate. Like if Mason
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Winn had had a year where you know, he's like
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a one to oh seven no ps plus guy, where
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: you know, a slightly above league average hitter and an
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: absolutely stellar defender, then I don't think you would have
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: any consideration that that weather Holt jumped the line on him,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: because I think they would have been eager to talk
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: about an extension with Win, but that just hasn't been
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the case. And the other thing too, that you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: there will be some of this I don't think that
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: we have seen a lot of, but there will be
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: some parts of a Bloom administration that will value players
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: differently than the Moze Lock folks did. And whether wind
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: falls into that category, I'm not I don't feel comfortable
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: making that assessment right now, but there will definitely be
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: guys who fall into that group, and so you do
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: start to wonder if some of those guys do find themselves,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: if not phased out, at least less prominent, because there's
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: there is a different set of eyes making a decision
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: these days.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Fair, it's fair, and I just love win because he
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: makes defensive plays I've never seen made before. I mean,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: he's that kind of talent, and I do believe offensively
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: it will come around and he will have a productive bet.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: All right, last thing I wanted to ask about another
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: thing Lancelyn said about the Dodgers. Basically, any owner could
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: have spent the money and they chose not to. I'm
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: gonna phrase it differently. Do you think the Dodgers have
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: destroyed the game of baseball, major League Baseball as we
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: know it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I do not think the Dodgers have destroyed Major League
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Baseball as we know it. I think that there are,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: if not twenty nine, like twenty six or twenty seven
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: owners who are happy to let them take the brunt
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: of the blame for that because it puts them in
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: a much stronger bargaining position. Calm CBA time here this winter.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: That's fair, do you But do you think there's certainly
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: mid market teams that can't risk a player that they
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: went all in and put all the resources in getting
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: injured or just not being good. But the bigger markets,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: to me, that's the difference. The Yankees, the Red Sox,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: We've seen it every year. They spend a lot of money.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: To the Mets, spend money, a lot of money on
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a guy he's not good. They just get somebody else.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: You're hampering the smaller market teams if if you have
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: that sort of situation for them, and I think that's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the real difference. Am I wrong?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Do I have it wrong?
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not saying that the other owners
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: aren't billionaires. I'm not saying that, oh the value of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the team went down because they're free agent, that they
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: just spent a lot of money on is hitting two thirty.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, if you're trying
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: to run an organization and you have limited resources, it's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: a lot more difficult to go all in on one
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: of these guys. And tell me where I'm wrong.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: And if I am so, you are not wrong that
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the Dodgers are in an advantageous financial position compared to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: basically everyone else in baseball, Right, there's no doubt that
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: that's the case, both because of the size of their market,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: the appeal of the team, and also because they do
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: have a really favorable media rights deal that gives them
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: some exemptions from some parts of their media revenue sharing.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Because of what MLB had to do to or show
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: to do, I guess, to settle out Frank McCourt when
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: he went into bankruptcy, the Dodgers went into bankruptcy, and
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: they had to deal with all that. There are definitely
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: unique circumstances. The Dodgers also have a singular figure in
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: baseball in the person of Shohotani. Right there's no way
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: around the fact that Otani himself. You know, whatever you
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: may think about deferred salaries, which by the way, teams
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: have to askcro payments on those basically immediately, that's not
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: some huge advantage the Dodgers are paying right now. Regardless
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: whatever you think about the value of the Otani dealing
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: well at seven hundred, but it's actually for aighty blah
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. He is worth hundreds of millions
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: of dollars in advertising all by himself. You go to
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Dodger Stadium, now there is hardly an ad in Dodger Stadium.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: That's in English. They're all in Japanese, right, And the
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: reason is because they can sell a singular figure to
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: an economically strong market thousands of miles across an ocean,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: who will buy everything. I've told this story before, but
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: when the Cardinals opened in La in twenty twenty four,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I went to in and Altburger on the Sunset Strip
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: after the workout day, I'm sitting inside waiting on my
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: food at a tour bus. A full tour bus pulls
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: up outside. Off of this bus gets probably fifty Japanese folks,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: the youngest of whom was probably sixty five years old.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: It was a bus full of old Japanese tourists. Every
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: single one of them had on a piece of Otani merchandise.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Everyone right there. There are there are levels to this
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: that are hard to comprehend, and you will never be
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: able to convince me that the Dodgers didn't pay for
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Otani's deal within I had two weeks probably of him
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: signing it. All of that is to say, all of
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: that being true does not mean that other ownership groups
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: are doing everything they can to maximize their competitive edge.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I think that something that people really need to open
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: their eyes to is the fact that professional sports franchise
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: is are not what they used to be in the
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: context of like the portfolio of something you own right
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: like George Steinbrenner doesn't exist anymore. There are very few owners,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: maybe no owners whose whole thing is just win. Whatever
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: it is, just win. Even Steve Cohen, who grew up
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: a Mets fan and who is the wealthiest owner by
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: a magnitude of whatever. Steve, all of a sudden has
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: this casino permit and they're going to build that right
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: next to City Field. And I'm real curious to see
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: if all of a sudden Mets payroll takes a nosedive
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: now that the pr wheels have been greased and and
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Cohen has kind of gotten what he wanted out of
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that development project. Right. There are levels to the financial
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: maneuvering here. There are tax incentives to showing a loss
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: for a baseball team that you can write down based
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: on the rest of your portfolio. There are you know,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: there's a need to maintain the valuation of your franchise
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: more so than the cash flow of your franchise, because
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: if you're going to sell some or if you're gonna
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: leverage the asset, the valuation is important. This is a
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: lot more complicated than the Dodgers have money and the
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Dodgers win. Therefore the Dodgers broke baseball. If Isaiya kind
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: of Philiffer, kind of Fileffer, good lord, I'm Mike Francesso
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: over here. If Isaiah kind of philefa is one step faster?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: In the World Series? Last year, the Dodgers won one
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: World Series and then the Blue Jays one one? And
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: are we talking about the Blue Jays as like the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Goliath or the David that knocked off, like the team
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: that was ruinning baseball? I don't know. I'm not convinced
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: of that, right, but it just didn't work out that way,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: because that's baseball. And are the Dodgers likely to win
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the World Series this year? No, they're not. They are
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: more likely than anyone else, but they are not likely
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: to win the World Series this year. It's whatever eighty
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: twenty eighty five, fifteen against them winning the World Series
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: this year. But if they do, it's gonna make for
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: a really long cold winner.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it there, well said, Well said Sir
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Jeff appreciate you coming on the show. As always, don't
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: forget to check out words about birds uh subscription based,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and also check out his stuff in the Belleville News Democrat.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: That's going to do it for this.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you for the next
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: episode and hopefully that one won't suck.