Latest / Called BEYOND / S2 Ep3 Creativity, Intimacy, and Mission

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S2 Ep3 Creativity, Intimacy, and Mission · Called BEYOND

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When you realize how much Jesus loves you and how much He wants to call you
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into His space, into intimacy with Him, you don't forsake that.
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So when we come into an understanding of the intimacy that God invites us into,
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that the triune God invites us into, it's out of His crazy heart for us.
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And you can't help but respond to that. And the intimacy that's there vertically,
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but also the equipping it has for me, it changes my heart for the world and
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the people around me, even the hardest parts of the world and the people around me.
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There was a tipping point when I realized that my Heavenly Father was setting
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a place for me every day, waiting for me.
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And I don't want to miss that. And I love being in His presence.
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Music.
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Welcome to Called Beyond, a Novo Mission podcast.
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We love sharing stories about how we can hear God speaking to us,
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as well as what happens when we say yes to His calling in our lives.
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During this second season of the podcast, we're highlighting three spiritual
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rhythms reflected in the life of Christ.
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Cave, the place of encounter with God's Word and presence.
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Table, the place of belonging with supportive family and friends.
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And Rode, the place of spiritual engagement in the world.
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Well, welcome back everybody to another episode of the Called Beyond podcast.
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I'm your host, Tim Schuck, and I'm joined by Alice Collier.
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Alice, she's living in her hometown right now in Mississippi,
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but that's after 20 years of serving with Novo abroad in Asia.
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She leads the Novo Makers team and is just exploring what gospel movements look
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like through a a creative lens.
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One of the things that you may love to learn about Alice is she actually loves
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to roller skate. Man, that is so fun.
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And Chris Samoji is also joining us from Southern California,
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where she's lived most of her life.
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And she gets to serve with the NOVA lead team, working on strategy and special projects.
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Chris has become a dear friend of mine. She's a spiritual director,
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which is just really being called to cultivating space within leaders and team
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to experience the fullness of what God has for each of us for the sake of mission.
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You know, one of the things that Chris absolutely loves is being Nona,
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a grandma, and she promises that it is everything that it is chalked up to be.
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Another thing that I love is she usually is covered in hair from her two golden
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retrievers who just have full reign of the house. Welcome, ladies.
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It's so good to have you guys on the podcast. Yeah.
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Good to be here. Yes, good to be here. Yeah.
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So, you know, as we explore stories, I know that you guys have a ton of things that you could share.
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And one of the things that I think is beautiful about Alice,
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your story, is just getting to serve in such diverse backgrounds and then to
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be settling into this place of leading a team of creatives.
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You know, I kind of I kind of laugh a little bit because I think about what
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that looks like in my head. It kind of feels like it must be like leading a team of cats.
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Just the introspection, the artistic process, and all of that entails.
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Maybe tell us a little bit about what that looks like on a day-to-day basis,
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leading a team of creatives.
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Yes. Well, it's a joy and a privilege to lead artists who are all exploring
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what gospel movement looks like through a creative lens and using their creative
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gifts to infusing those into gospel movement in their contexts.
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And so visual artist, an actress, songwriter, and a poet, and myself, we are the core team.
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And we come alongside Novo's gospel movement teams to help them see through
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a creative of lens and explore what does prayer walking look like?
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What does activating prayer look like?
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Coming alongside with, we can do creative retreats.
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Yeah, lots of different things.
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Yeah, I love that. It's almost like you're trying to infuse into a lot of us
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think of these things from just like a purely mental or an outcome-based planning or strategy.
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And it's almost like you guys come in and it's a little bit like,
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well, how do we create fun?
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And how do we create an atmosphere?
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And how do we shape the experience of people that are moving into these more
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cerebral minded believers that are thinking about gospel movements and all that?
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And so I find that to be actually really fascinating to come alongside on the
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creative side of a process that really involves the whole person from an experiential standpoint.
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Do you have any, maybe an example of what that kind of looks like,
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exploring, bringing creativity into a normal scene?
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Do you have any examples of what that could look like so that people can see
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what you mean? Yes. And in this creative space, we know our creator God is the ultimate creator.
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And just like in the creation story where the spirit was hovering over the deep,
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that kind of space is where we create from with the creator,
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the spirit hovering over us. And so it is creative.
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Such an intimate space of worship where we do that together.
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And one example is that when we were in Cambodia,
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my husband and I and Dan, who is Novo's resident prophetic poet,
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I had him listen with me in listening prayer over a festival that took place every year in Cambodia.
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And it was really drawing in darkness, this festival, conjuring up ancient Chinese
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spirits to come in and have it.
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People and they would pierce their tongues with spears and it was just really dark.
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And so every year we would have a intercessory prayer time during that festival
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where we would worship and pray and prayer walk.
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And that particular year, I asked Dan, it's like, Dan, I wonder if God might
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give you a poem or something. Would you be listening in prayer?
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And God gave him this incredible poem that was like a declarative prayer of
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blessing over Cambodia, over Phnom Penh, over the people that the blood of Jesus
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covers them. And I read that.
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And it was like there was this immediate shift. And you know what?
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That festival doesn't take place anymore in that location.
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You're kidding. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
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Wow. So that's very, very powerful. So it's a little bit like calling on a team
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that has this diverse skill that the Lord has just gifted them with.
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And basically, it's creating an all play out of the multitude of giftings and
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ways of relating to God and to people kind of into the mix for the benefit of all.
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And in that example, what's really cool is it's just sort of like there was
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this probably this receipt in this emboldening that you guys experienced as
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a result of Dan listening on
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your behalf and then like the creativity and the flow that came out of it.
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Yeah, we were like, whoa, what is this?
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And God, what are you inviting us into? Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing.
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Well, we're going to pick up your story here in a minute. I want to explore
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Chris a little bit in just this idea of cultivating space for leaders and team
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to experience the fullness of what God has for them.
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It sounds like an incredible, it's almost like a tour guide a little bit into
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spiritual things in order for you to uncover the beautiful thing that is wrapped
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up inside people's own skin.
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What does that look like, Chris, for you as you've, I imagine you just didn't walk right into that.
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What's it been like to kind of grow into this place of walking alongside others into deep places?
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First of all, it's such a privilege. But before I go into what's it like,
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and I want to remember that you've asked me that question, what's it like?
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It kind of, as Alice was speaking, and for the...
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To explore applications in gospel movements.
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Similarly, holding space helps us push away the preconceived boundaries,
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the self-limiting beliefs, the do it the same way and expect different results mentality.
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I've had the privilege of seeing Alice at work and worshiping a creator God
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and bringing that space to come to bear on teams,
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it blows out the dimensions and the limitations that we bring with us into the room.
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And so similarly, when we cultivate and hold space for other people,
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we provide the opportunity to push against things that really are our self-limiting beliefs,
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are things, narratives that we've said to ourselves or that people have spoken
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over us that really aren't a part of God's identity for us.
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And that's just one element of holding space.
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It's just being in community, establishing a community where for that moment,
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there are three of you present, or maybe you're doing it in a group process
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where you are seeking to align yourself with the Holy Spirit and hear what he
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has to say to you for the sake of your own intimacy,
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for your community, but also for your mission.
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So it's that cave table road piece.
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And I guess what it's like, it's a privilege. And it's one of those things where
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you're, the concept of flow,
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some of you have been in the last 20 years, the concept of flow has come to
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bear on when are you at your best and when do you have energy to just go all
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day and all night doing something that you love?
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I experienced that. I experienced that kind of flow, holding space with people,
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which tells me that the spirit is in this for me.
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Yeah, that's so good. I think for maybe for the benefit of the listener,
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you know, we've talked a little bit about gospel movements and gospel movement teams.
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And just if that, if those words or phrases are hitting you in a place where
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it's just like, I think I know what they mean, but maybe not as,
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you know, within Novo, we have gospel movement teams kind of all spread across the world.
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And think of it as these guys' mission is to see and watch and influence what
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God is doing in a place where the gospel just begins to spread almost virally among the people.
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It's kind of like starting something, but it's not so ingrained in who these
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teams are that it becomes about them,
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but it's about seeing rapid multiplication of the gospel reaching people wherever they are at.
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And so when Alice is talking about partnering with that,
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you can kind of see how it's like, how can a creative lens serve the multiplication
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that we desire to see men as Chris is kind of relating to that same story and just seeing how.
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We do serve a creator God and allowing that part of who God is to begin permeating
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the intensity and the drive and the desire to see new disciples of Jesus made
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is it can become a game changer type of moment.
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And so anyways, I hope that that context kind of helps you understand a little
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bit how Alice coming alongside these people and Chris coming alongside people in her way, it really is
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about releasing greater effectiveness for the kingdom of God to pervade and
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almost overtake these places around the world where we have people serving.
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So, we're kind of in this theme of cave, table, and road this season on the podcast.
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And I want to ask Alice a question for you is, and it's maybe a two-part question,
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it's which one of those practices or each, which one of those those lanes or
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disciplines feels like it comes the easiest for you.
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And then as you may guess, which one do you feel like you have to maybe work
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on a little bit, you know, in this season of your life?
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Well, I think cave is, is my favorite place.
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It's the easiest place intimacy with Jesus. We know it's where everything flows from.
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And I feel like that's what, what I'm called to first is to is my intimacy with Jesus, But also prayer.
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Prayer is my passion, whether it's listening, prayer and listening to what God's
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dreaming for a city or a nation or sitting with someone and holding space for
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them and listening with them, like Chris said.
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I'd say that probably, well, table would be a little bit of a challenge for
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me now, just because our team is virtual.
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And so we meet every Thursday, we have a call online.
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And I was just reading from Romans this morning when Paul is talking about how
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he longs to see them and he's writing. And I'm like, yes, I feel that way.
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We have Zoom now. But to be in the same room, there's something so different
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when you get to do table and community, you know, sharing together,
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praying together, eating together.
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Yeah, that's, we're trying to figure out what that looks like from a virtual
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space. Yeah, that is really good. I was a part last week.
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I was a virtual attender of an in-person retreat for a team.
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And literally, like the camera was pointed at a table full of Trader Joe's peanut butter cups.
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And I was dying on the inside because I couldn't reach through my computer screen
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to grab one of those things. So I know what you mean.
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It is so difficult to establish the community that you would do if people were
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just sitting around your table where you can all reach the snack bowl,
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which would be my favorite part of that. But yeah, that is so good.
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Good. Chris, I would say almost same question to you. What is something that
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you just absolutely, this is just a part of the fabric of who I am.
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And then maybe one that is like, I mean, I don't know.
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I mean, you've got two golden retrievers. So maybe that like leads you straight
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to the road, like every single evening for like daily walks.
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I feel like dogs are the best evangelists that exist.
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Dogs and small children, icebreakers. There we go.
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That's right. Yeah. What would you say? Well, it's interesting.
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To answer this question now is different than like maybe five, 10 years ago.
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Five, 10 years ago, I was all about road and table.
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And I was a practitioner of cave, but my heart, it was more of a discipline.
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You all have heard from Bill Wendell.
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He talks about the risk benefit of disciplines becoming legalistic.
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So I had my quiet time but probably seven, eight years ago my cave time shifted
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and much like Alice discussed I shared from her heart when you realize that,
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How much the God, the universe, how much Jesus loves you, and how much he wants
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to call you into his space, into intimacy with you.
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It's hard to, it's, you don't forsake that.
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So when we come into an understanding of the intimacy that God invites us into,
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that the triune God invites us into, it's out of his crazy heart for us.
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And you can't help but respond to that. And so like Alice,
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my favorite place is Cave and the intimacy that's there vertically,
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but also the equipping it has for me, it changes my heart for the world and
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the people around me, even the hardest parts of the world and the people around me.
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So sorry for the emotionality of that, but there was a tipping point when I
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realized that my Heavenly Father was setting a place for me every day and waiting for me.
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There's a wonderful allegory story about the king who waits,
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who has this beautiful place that he invites his people to, and he waits for us.
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And I don't want to miss that. And I love being in his presence.
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And table is my next favorite. Those two, cave and table, kind of run together now.
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Road is probably the most challenging for me, even though I do get brought into
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road through, you know, like my hairy friends that you mentioned.
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But I'm aware that I can get so involved in my intimacy with Jesus and cultivating
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space for others to encounter that and hospitality that I want to be mindful
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of the missional aspect of that.
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And just making sure that my motivation is in check, that this is truly for the sake of the kingdom.
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But that's just an ongoing sweet tension. Yeah.
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You know, the word that's kind of coming to mind right now, as I hear,
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you know, both your responses to this is it's like not easy, right?
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And yet there's this point where we've kind of unpacked this a little bit in
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previous episodes, but this idea of balance.
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And, you know, in finding God in all three and then finding ourselves in all three.
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And then you know i want
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to ask you guys about maybe a sweet spot right where you've
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seen maybe balance come into this and maybe this the cave table road paradigm
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doesn't really fit into this sweet spot either memory or moment but is there
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something that comes to your mind when you think of like man that was a that
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was a moment where you know i was firing on all cylinders or where
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effectiveness or something really beautiful happened as a result of X, Y, and Z.
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I'm just going to throw this out there for either of you.
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Can you think of a moment and maybe share that with us?
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Well, I actually, as we're talking about cave and table,
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I went on a quiet retreat to a Jesuit retreat center in Colorado Springs about
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four years ago, and it was transforming for me.
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Three days of just quiet with the Lord and the Lord set a table for me,
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and that I was engaging my imagination in my prayer time and just imagined this
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table that the Lord set for me.
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And there were many table, many placemats. And I was like, well,
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I'm here. He said, yes, but you didn't bring all of yourself.
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The parts that you're ashamed of, Alice, wants you to bring those parts that.
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So it was really a deep healing work for me, for the Lord, to speak to each
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part of me as the limitations, the insecurities. And that was...
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Pivotal for me to encourage me to step up and say, yes, I feel like God is doing
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something with creativity in this season.
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And He's inviting us artists to come together and explore together how to see
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kingdom come through our creativity.
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And so that just overflowed out into what's happening now with our team as we're
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coming alongside others who are seeking for God's kingdom to come in their neighborhoods
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or in their country and now collaborating with the couple in Japan that are with our organization.
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And we'll be heading there in October to come alongside them in person and do
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some creative things and do some prayer walking.
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And so, yeah, I just felt like everything, it was just this season of overflow
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from that space of intimacy with Jesus where he did healing in my heart.
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Yeah. I'm just thinking back to our kind of entry episode into season two and
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Darren Prince talked about the cave as being a place of subtraction where you
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kind of retreat back in spending time with God.
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And I love that there was this healing time that you had in that retreat area
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in Colorado Springs and how the outflow of that was to bring that healing,
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bring that kind of newly realized and fully alive self to your team.
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And then as a result of that, you've seen that spread through them and through
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you out to the road, into the places where people are ministering,
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where the feet hit the street, so to speak. Well, that kind of rhymed. That was good.
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So Chris, as you've heard Alice's story and as you've had a little bit more
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time to think, is there an area or a story or what comes to mind first as you
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think of something that you've seen or done or where you felt balance in your own life? Yeah.
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Yes. I can recall a time where I was actually at a table with friends.
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But preceding the table, I'd had a sweet, quiet time and my prayer had been,
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Lord, just expand my vision.
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Who's in my queue today? What am I praying for?
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Help me see in a new way. You know, just, I was kind of in my groove and realizing
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that I needed a little bit of holy disruption in that group, if you know what I mean.
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So we were at a restaurant. I was at a table with some friends in various stages
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of their walk with Christ.
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And we had a server come to our table who just was buoyant, remarkable impact in the atmosphere.
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And I just kept noticing her. And so as we gathered to pray,
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we started to pray for our food, she was serving us. And I just remember the
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prompt of the Lord to say something to her.
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And I just said, can I just thank you? You're just such a bright spot.
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And we're about ready to pray for our meal here.
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And we'd really love to pray for you. How can we pray for you? Would you let us know?
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I mean, I know you're busy, but if you want to pray with us,
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you're welcome to. But we want to respect your time.
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It was a little shorter than that. I didn't give her the whole monologue like I just gave you.
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But she kind of burst into tears in that moment.
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She said, thank you. I'm really trying to make a go of this,
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but my heart is really heavy. Home is really a hard place.
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So I got to go, but thank you. I'll receive any and all prayer that you want to pray for me.
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And I just, so we prayed for her and the meal carried on and there was the conversation
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around the table shifted as a result of that.
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And I just thought, boy, Lord, thank you for this invitation to step into this.
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And it's helped me realize, You know, we tend to think of cave,
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table, and road as linear, you know, or you go through one and then you do the
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other, but they're not linear.
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They're inextricable. They play off each other. It's almost like some of you
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are familiar if you've been in the Activating Prayer cohort.
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We talk about the Venn diagram of a word, deed, and power, and that we look
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at Jesus as being perfectly balanced, having the perfect balance,
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living in the center of that.
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And I think Cave Table Road is the saying that they're all essential.
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They all play off each other. And we see Jesus in the middle of that,
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in that perfect balanced place.
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And I think I got a taste of what that was like.
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Realizing that it's still okay to have a favorite or a come from,
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you know, like we talk about.
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So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's one example. No, that really does.
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Yeah, that is so good. I often reflect even with that word deed power idea,
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which yeah, if anybody wants that, it's a free resource on Novo's website.
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It's just a little booklet you can read and it's a really effective paradigm
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for just thinking about how we relate to God.
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And I often say like, one of those feels like a spiritual home,
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you know, whether it's the word, the Bible, deed, you know, compassionately
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moving towards others in Jesus name, or even the power and, you know,
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seeing God show up through signs and wonders in those things.
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One of those usually feels more like home.
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It's the same with, yeah, with Cave Table Road.
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Well, one of my favorite things that we get to do this season is to ask guests
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about practices that they can leave behind for every listener to experiment with.
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And so I've had the pleasure of joining the Makers team for a few of their events and have just been.
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I would say, enthusiastically engaged to try some fun things.
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And so not to put you on the spot, Alice, but I wonder, is there something from
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a creative lens that's a small,
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short, easy to do practice that every listener could maybe try out just to see
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how to integrate creativity into this process of finding balance?
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Yes. Well, I guess you could put this under the theme of cave or road or both,
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because one of the practices that
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we encourage people to do when they're beginning to do listening prayer,
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listen to what God's heart might be for their neighborhoods,
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for their region, is listen from the perspective of the land. Right.
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An I am poem for about the land is what we call it. So just say,
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I am was, what is your land feeling?
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What is your land? What are the wounds?
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What if you're, if the land could talk right now, what would the land say? What does it long for?
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So those kinds of questions that we ask, it's been very interesting.
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The insight that we feel like the Lord has given us as we, we listen from the
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perspective of the land.
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Wow. Wow. Blowing my mind. Okay, Chris, same, kind of same question for you.
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Is there a practice that you could leave behind as an entry point for the listener
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to explore one of these cave table or road?
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It's something that I'm actually fooling around with right now.
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It's actually more of a posture than an absolute practice, in that it's a posture
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that I can take into a different kind of setting of practices.
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And that is, it kind of relates to how we began with creativity and pushing out some boundaries.
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So it's the idea of practicing the presence of God and inviting Jesus to be
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with you as you take on something without perfection, without having to nail the perfect message,
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the perfect prayer, the perfect table, the perfect meal, the perfect choir time.
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It's, Lord, I'm releasing any proclivity that I have around perfection or control,
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and I'm going to take this next step with you. And I want to be guided by that.
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And I want to risk, you know, set aside this whole risk and need to control
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the outcome. Yeah. Oh, that's so good.
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Music.
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Well, as we recap for you guys, the amazing conversation that we just had with Alice and Chris,
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there's just a few, I mean, there's a lot of things that stand out,
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but I think a few things that really resonate so well, I think with me and hopefully for you.
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And I think the charge that they left each of us with is there's this kind of
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subtle, it's a part of every story that was shared today on the podcast,
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but just this idea of knowing who God says you are and knowing who God is.
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Is so crucial to operating effectively as believers and disciples of Jesus everywhere that we go.
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And I think for both Chris and Alice in their story, the cave was a place where
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they They have received so much from God that has allowed them and almost unlocked
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in a way greater effectiveness in their ability to influence others in their life.
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And I'm reminded of this quote from Joseph Campbell.
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I mean, this is, you see this in movies nonstop. You see this in stories and
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written, and it's this whole idea that the treasure that you seek resides in
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the cave that you fear the most.
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And this is in a lot of ways a different cave than what we're talking about in this paradigm.
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But this idea that this place of subtraction is a place of great growth.
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It is the place where we deal with some of the things that we don't like about
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ourselves or the things that aren't true yet about us.
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And it's the place where God meets us and allows us to see things more clearly.
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And so I just want to encourage you that if the cave feels like a scary place,
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that you would realize that it unlocks so much of the potential that God built into your God journey.
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Given DNA, that's where it happens. So, I encourage you to be there.
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And also, I love the non-linear aspect to Cave Table Road, but really it's about
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finding Jesus in the center.
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And so, as we heard from them in their stories where everything clicked,
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or those moments where, you know, God showed up and you know you were being
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your best self as a result of it,
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I just want to encourage each of you as listeners of this podcast to think of
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those moments that you have in your story as to where things were clicking,
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where you found great, great effectiveness and where everything sort of became
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fun. It wasn't about you.
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It wasn't about God, but God was there and you were there and this thing happened.
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Spend some time thinking about that, giving God some glory for it,
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giving maybe yourself some credit for where it's due and how you were able to
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be the best version of yourself.
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And all those things were kind of clicking and firing off. And so it's a joy
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again, just to be with you.
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And I encourage you just to try those practices out that they left with us.
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Consider what the land might say around you.
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And also consider doing something imperfectly and being okay with that and finding
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God in it who makes all things new. So bless you with that.
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Say yes. The adventure awaits.
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So as we wrap up this episode, we want you to know that you too are called beyond.
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We believe there is more that God desires for your life than you could possibly ask or imagine.
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Are you eager to cultivate a healthy, fruitful, and holistic walk with God?
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We bless you in Jesus' name to experience spiritually rich times in the cave,
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around the table, and on the road.
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We pray and believe for transformation in your personal relationship with Jesus,
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your community with other believers, and in the missional spaces the Spirit
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of God is inviting you into.
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Music.
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Thank you for listening to today's episode. Called Beyond is a production of Novo Mission, Inc.
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To learn more about Novo's commitment to multiply movements of the gospel and
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mobilize the church for that mission, we invite you to check us out on our website
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at novo.org or follow us at Novo Mission on Facebook or Instagram.
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The music in today's episode was written by the band Wild Earth and used with
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permission from the artist.
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Thank you again for giving our podcast a listen. We hope you'll join us for more called Beyond.