Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Police Association President Paul McCue says there was a perception of political interference in the charging of Zachary Rolfe

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Police Association President Paul McCue says there was a perception of political interference in the charging of Zachary Rolfe · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: And the Northern Territory Police Association has accused the Gunner
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: government of creating a perception of political interference surrounding the
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  Speaker 1: arrest of Constable Zach Rolf. President Paul McHugh said yesterday
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  Speaker 1: in a press conference that political interference was alive when
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  Speaker 1: Constable Zach Rolf was charged with the murder of Kumen
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  Speaker 1: Jay Walker in twenty nineteen, and is now calling for
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  Speaker 1: that independent inquiry into the investigation of the un Demu shooting.
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  Speaker 1: The Police Association President Paul mchue joins me in the
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  Speaker 1: studio right now.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Paul, Good morning Katy. Paul.
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  Speaker 1: Firstly, we know that you have certainly made comments over
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  Speaker 1: the last couple of days around those comments that the
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  Speaker 1: Chief Minister, Michael Gunner said just days after that fatal
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  Speaker 1: shooting that consequences will flow. The Chief Minister joined us
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  Speaker 1: just a couple of moments ago and had said that
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  Speaker 1: you've launched some kind of extraordinary campaign against him.
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  Speaker 2: Is that the case?
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  Speaker 3: Look, I don't know, Katie, in all honesty, if I've
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  Speaker 3: ever heard a more tone deaf response to concerns of
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  Speaker 3: our members and members across the country. I talk about
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  Speaker 3: police officers and community members that have contacted me directly. Now,
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  Speaker 3: you've got to remember way back when this occurred, and
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  Speaker 3: it was well over two years ago now, and the
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  Speaker 3: Chief Minster went down to you and the Moon he
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  Speaker 3: made that comment. He said the word consequences. He didn't
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  Speaker 3: say recommendations, he didn't say anything of that other nature.
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  Speaker 3: And now we know, we know he was talking about
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  Speaker 3: a crayon investigation. But this was two or three days
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  Speaker 3: after what that community would have been going through a
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  Speaker 3: traumatic experience of traumatic time, not to mention what Constable
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  Speaker 3: Rolph and the other members involved in that situation we're
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  Speaker 3: going through. So for him to say that it's some
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  Speaker 3: sort of orchestrated campaign, when I am simply representing the
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  Speaker 3: concerns that we had back then, the members represented to
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  Speaker 3: us and they still do today. If he wants to
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  Speaker 3: take that as some orchestrated camp, then I'm sorry, you're
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  Speaker 3: not fit for the job, Chief Minister. Our job is
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  Speaker 3: to represent our members. That's exactly what I've done. And
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  Speaker 3: if he believes in some way that he, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I guess what's even more concerning, Katie is his lack
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  Speaker 3: of understanding, or his lack of ability to understand what
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  Speaker 3: I'm actually trying to say. I'm not saying he had
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  Speaker 3: any interference in the charges. I'm not saying that whatsoever.
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  Speaker 3: It's the perception of what took place down at Yondermou
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  Speaker 3: on the Tuesday after the shooting. Perception is reality. And
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  Speaker 3: he was there, The Minister was there. He said what
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  Speaker 3: he said, and it was the wrong thing to do.
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  Speaker 3: And I gave him an opportunity that very night. I
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  Speaker 3: rang him as soon as he landed back in Darwin.
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  Speaker 3: I questioned him. I said, these are the concerns that
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  Speaker 3: have immediately been raised to me, and I would like
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  Speaker 3: you to clarify it exactly how he's done now two
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  Speaker 3: years after the event. I wanted him to do that
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  Speaker 3: the next day and it would have put all of
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  Speaker 3: this to bed. But no, he's waited, and now he
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  Speaker 3: believes over two years we've orchestrated some campaign. Well, that
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  Speaker 3: is utter nonsense.
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  Speaker 2: Is it too little, too late, thy, Paul?
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  Speaker 3: Obviously? I mean, you know, our members have had a
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  Speaker 3: gupfull of listening to the excuses from the Chief Minister
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  Speaker 3: over what he was attempting to do down there. Fact is,
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  Speaker 3: he should never have been there. I don't care whose
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  Speaker 3: decision it was that he went down there, and look,
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  Speaker 3: he's the Chief Minister. Of course he feels you know,
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  Speaker 3: he probably was trying to do the right thing. He
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  Speaker 3: probably wanted to go down and try and address that
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  Speaker 3: meeting down there and you and to move But you
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  Speaker 3: know the fact is it was a wrong decision at
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  Speaker 3: some stage. When you're in positions such as he is,
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  Speaker 3: if you make a mistake or if you think he
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  Speaker 3: could have done better, just put your hand up, say
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  Speaker 3: it and people will respect you. But by going on
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  Speaker 3: the attack against us, he's just creating more of a
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  Speaker 3: divide and it's unnecessary.
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  Speaker 2: Paul, let's make no bones about this.
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  Speaker 1: Are you on some kind of campaign here to discredit
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  Speaker 1: the Chief Minister.
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  Speaker 3: No, my job is to represent the membership. That is
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  Speaker 3: exactly what I did. And what's really sad about this.
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  Speaker 3: Two young lives have been one was lost that night
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  Speaker 3: and another a young constable. His police career is in tatters,
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  Speaker 3: and this Chief Minister wants to make this an issue
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  Speaker 3: between him and I, the Police Association and his government.
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  Speaker 3: Let's just stop for a minute and think about what
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  Speaker 3: these people have been through, all the members of the
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  Speaker 3: Northern Territory Police Force, what they've been through over the
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  Speaker 3: last two years. For heaven's sake, stop take a breath
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  Speaker 3: and show some consideration to what everyone has been through
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  Speaker 3: instead of trying to launch some ridiculous attack against genuine
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  Speaker 3: concerns we've held for our membership.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what are officers saying to you over the last
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  Speaker 1: couple of days, following on from this outcome being delivered
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  Speaker 1: and following on from some of the comments that have
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  Speaker 1: been made.
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  Speaker 3: Look, it's been a tough time, you know, the last
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  Speaker 3: two years. There's been a lot of questions that haven't
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  Speaker 3: been able to be answered and they still can't today.
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  Speaker 3: What we saw on Friday was obviously the justice system
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  Speaker 3: play its part of the criminal aspect. We do know
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  Speaker 3: there's a significant Cournal investigation to come I understand later
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  Speaker 3: this year in September, and now obviously we've made it
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  Speaker 3: quite clear that's what should have occurred in the first place,
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  Speaker 3: rather than laying criminal charges at such a rapid rate
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  Speaker 3: of what they did that horse as well and truly bolded.
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  Speaker 3: But we know this Corona investigation, you know, and we
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  Speaker 3: hope it will bring out even more information about how
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  Speaker 3: this occurred. And obviously there will be a whole lot
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  Speaker 3: more to look at through that process.
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  Speaker 1: You have also, you guys also want to see a
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  Speaker 1: full independent inquiry here into this perceived political interference. What
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  Speaker 1: are you hoping that that would glim look?
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  Speaker 3: Obviously, you know this is a really unusual circumstance. What
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  Speaker 3: we saw here was a member of the police force
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  Speaker 3: on duty. He was tasked to go with others to
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  Speaker 3: arrest high risk offender, and you know, a police shooting
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  Speaker 3: occurred and a young man died. Now, police shootings sadly
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  Speaker 3: occur from time to time. We know it occurred before
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  Speaker 3: this incident, and it's occurred since and most recently not
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  Speaker 3: too long ago. Of course, we know. What we need
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  Speaker 3: to know is why the concerns, the genuine concerns of
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  Speaker 3: people tasked to investigate this shooting in you and to
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  Speaker 3: me initially? Where they were raising concerns about the speed
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  Speaker 3: at what charges you know, were being looked at? Why
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  Speaker 3: were they ignored? Why were charges laid just four days?
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  Speaker 3: You can't tell me there was enough evidence to put
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  Speaker 3: to the DPP when those concerns were being ignored by
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  Speaker 3: those those investigators.
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  Speaker 1: What did you make of the Chiefinesster's comments when I
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  Speaker 1: asked that question and you know, whether, upon reflection now
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  Speaker 1: after that light really being gleaned in this space, whether
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  Speaker 1: he was concerned that those charges were laid so quickly.
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  Speaker 2: What did you make of his comments about that?
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  Speaker 3: Look, you know he's obviously going to be concerned about
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  Speaker 3: making any comment around the police charging. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not one minute trying to suggest he was involved
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  Speaker 3: in those charging or had anything to do with that.
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  Speaker 3: I think what we need to really make sure occurs
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  Speaker 3: is a full review to make sure if there were faults,
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  Speaker 3: if there was any concerns, and these are legitimate concerns,
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  Speaker 3: and the membership, I mean for two years, they've been
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  Speaker 3: sitting there going how on earth did one of my
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  Speaker 3: colleagues get charged for a no duty incident when they
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  Speaker 3: were using force which you're trained to do. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: no one can answer that for over two years. So
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  Speaker 3: it was a concern from the start from us.
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  Speaker 1: Paul the Chief Minister said just a short time ago
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  Speaker 1: that you know, these calls for an independent inquiry and
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  Speaker 1: for them to not take place will then to be
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  Speaker 1: separate from the coronial and also separate from an IKAC investigation.
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  Speaker 1: That it's conspiracy nuts that you know that I was
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  Speaker 1: asking him whether I subscribe, whether he subscribes to the
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  Speaker 1: views of conspiracy nuts.
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  Speaker 2: But is this something that is genuinely being.
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  Speaker 1: Raised by the rank and file of the police force
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  Speaker 1: right now.
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  Speaker 3: One hundred percent, no doubt whatsoever. And I think I
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  Speaker 3: made it clear yesterday that obviously we need a cranial
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  Speaker 3: investigation to occur. We need that process to take place,
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  Speaker 3: and that's supposedly in September of this year, no doubt.
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  Speaker 3: As I said, there'll be much more information come out
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  Speaker 3: through that about the processes, the procedures, decisions, all of
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  Speaker 3: that will be really important to determine what sort of
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  Speaker 3: an inquiry might be needed, if any. But you know,
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  Speaker 3: we need that process to take place first, because you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's a very stressful time and it's going to continue
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  Speaker 3: that way for many officers sadly.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, I want to take you to comments that were
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  Speaker 1: made yesterday on my show with Richard Rolf, the father
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  Speaker 1: of Zach Rolf, in a pretty explosive interview.
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  Speaker 2: I'll take you to what he had to say yesterday.
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  Speaker 4: No commissioned officer has ever checked on Zach's welfare or
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  Speaker 4: his family since the arrest, and they have persecuted him relentlessly,
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  Speaker 4: without doubt. They are the worst employer in the country.
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  Speaker 4: They have no duty of care, so they're start for
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  Speaker 4: satrocious and the only way the Northern Territory Police Force
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  Speaker 4: can rebound to be the great police force that they
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  Speaker 4: once were is to immediately remove Jamie Chalker.
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  Speaker 1: So you are calling for the Police Commissioner, Jamie Chalker
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  Speaker 1: to be removed from his job.
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  Speaker 4: Whether he is sacked immediately or he resigns, I don't mind,
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  Speaker 4: but he must go.
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  Speaker 1: So that was Richard Rolf, the father of Constable Zach Rolf,
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  Speaker 1: on the show yesterday. Paul, does the Police Association support
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  Speaker 1: the commissioner?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I actually went and saw the commissioner yesterday afternoon.
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  Speaker 3: Now what we heard from mister Rolph yesterday was a
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  Speaker 3: father who for two years has any son sitting there
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  Speaker 3: on a murder charge, wondering whether he'll go to jail
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  Speaker 3: or not. He's emotional, there's a asolutely no doubt. He
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  Speaker 3: had every right. People will criticize Richard Rohl for a
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  Speaker 3: lot of his commentary, but he had every right as
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  Speaker 3: a father to say what he likes now in some respects,
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  Speaker 3: and obviously went and saw the commission yesterday. I had
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  Speaker 3: a really good conversation with him. There are a lot
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  Speaker 3: of members that have come to me talking about the Commissioner,
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  Speaker 3: his tenure, his position, and right now I've relayed those
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  Speaker 3: concerns to the Commissioner. He's fully aware. I'm aware he's
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  Speaker 3: off to Alice Springs and Tenant Creek to go and
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  Speaker 3: visit the membership. Is exactly what I'll be doing. This
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  Speaker 3: is very raw, it's very new. I need to get
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  Speaker 3: outsee our members, have some meetings with those members, determine
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  Speaker 3: what they expect from me and what they expect me
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  Speaker 3: to convey to the Commissioner. Now, whether that's asking him
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  Speaker 3: to resign or not, I have no idea at this stage,
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  Speaker 3: but there's a lot of anger out there.
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  Speaker 2: I know that do the rank and file support the
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  Speaker 2: Chief Minister.
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  Speaker 3: Look judging on some of the commentary received of late,
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  Speaker 3: absolutely not. But you know, we know, as I've said,
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  Speaker 3: this is a pretty emotional time right now. We're only
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  Speaker 3: a few days out from the criminal trial concluding. There's
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  Speaker 3: a lot of emotion. There's a lot of commentary and
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  Speaker 3: a lot of messages. I'm getting that all needs to
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  Speaker 3: be digested and will take appropriate action from you.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet it does.
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  Speaker 1: I have got a message here on the text line
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  Speaker 1: that said could there be strike action from the police union?
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  Speaker 2: That one there from Russell.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, not at this stage. No, I don't think that
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  Speaker 3: will be good for anybody. I think we're above that
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  Speaker 3: right now. Our police do an incredible job in the community.
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  Speaker 3: In the community need to know that they're going to
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  Speaker 3: be there for them. There's other ways of conveying those concerns,
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  Speaker 3: and that's what we'll be doing.
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  Speaker 1: Paul. Can I ask what is the situation right now
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  Speaker 1: with Constable Zach Roff.
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  Speaker 3: Constable Rolf obviously is digesting what's taken place. For two years.
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  Speaker 3: He's had a lot of unknowns in his life, and
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  Speaker 3: as I said earlier, his career sadly is in tatters
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  Speaker 3: right now. You know, he had a promising career which
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  Speaker 3: is now all but likely over in terms of his
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: police career. To be quite frank, that'll be ultimately a
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  Speaker 3: decision for him, you know, in terms of internal matters,
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  Speaker 3: in terms of any of that. Look, that's quite confidential.
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  Speaker 3: I know people are pretty keen to know what's happened there,
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  Speaker 3: but I respect Zach's, you know, wishes. I'll be keeping
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  Speaker 3: that confidential. We're continuing to represent and support him as
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  Speaker 3: we have done since day one, but rest assured we're
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  Speaker 3: supporting him in the best way possible.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, based on what has happened over the last few days,
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  Speaker 1: how would you say the morale of the police.
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  Speaker 2: Forces right now?
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  Speaker 3: Look, it's pretty tough, you know, it's pretty pretty low,
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  Speaker 3: you could say, But I think what we need to
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  Speaker 3: do is get out there and see people. As I said,
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  Speaker 3: we've got a lot of other matters going on. Police
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  Speaker 3: are dealing with a lot of other matters every single
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  Speaker 3: day out there, none none less, and making sure the
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  Speaker 3: community is safe and obviously making sure we've got enough
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  Speaker 3: police to do the job. And that's our role, and
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  Speaker 3: we'll be out there to talk to them as soon
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  Speaker 3: as we can to determine how they're feeling.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, I've got to say, I think that to anybody
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  Speaker 1: who really watched much of the you know, many of
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  Speaker 1: the statements that had happened on the stairs of the
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  Speaker 1: Supreme Court on Friday afternoon, you could see that it
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  Speaker 1: was such an emotional time for everybody, for the Police Association,
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  Speaker 1: for Zach Rolf and his family, for the people of
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  Speaker 1: you and Demu. You know right now, I think it's
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  Speaker 1: such a difficult time for so many territori ens where
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  Speaker 1: we do all want to band together. We understand that
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  Speaker 1: people have got very different views in this space. But
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  Speaker 1: like you've pointed out, it's such an emotionally charged time,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it?
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  Speaker 3: Look it is? And I think you know, we can
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: have the blame game if you like, but it's not
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  Speaker 3: going to help heal things quickly as we need to.
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  Speaker 3: But it is an emotional time. Spare a thought for
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  Speaker 3: all those officers that were involved in this matter outside
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  Speaker 3: of Zach as well. Many of them had to give
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  Speaker 3: evidence in court over that five week period with one
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  Speaker 3: of their own sitting there on a murder charge. It
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  Speaker 3: was emotional, It was tough, and you know it's not
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: been easy, and of course it was emotional because you know,
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  Speaker 3: we are a small community and we all we all
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  Speaker 3: do band together, and we need to make sure we
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: keep doing that to make sure we can obviously get
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  Speaker 3: through what we get we have to get through now
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  Speaker 3: and obviously make sure things are improved for the future.
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  Speaker 1: I know there has been calls from some in remote
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  Speaker 1: communities and particularly from some in the You and demove community.
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  Speaker 1: You and demove Elder need hard grieves outside court questioning
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  Speaker 1: whether whether guns or you know, whether police officers should
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  Speaker 1: be should be armed.
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  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts in this space?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I did hear those comments. You know, we
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: made it clear yesterday we don't support the removal of
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: firearms off police officers. I mean, they are trained and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: equipped to deal with some really dangerous and horrific situations.
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  Speaker 3: And often it's, as we saw with this matter and
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  Speaker 3: many others, it's their own safety on the line, or
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: often it's the safety of others. And you know, I
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: think there's a whole lot of other work that needs
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: to be done in terms of, you know, why people
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: are being violent, why they're attack police. You know, that's
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: member safety's paramount, Katie, to be quite frank, and we
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: would never support a notion to remove firearms off our police.
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  Speaker 1: No Police Association President Paul McHugh, I always appreciate your time.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming in and speaking with
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: us this morning.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Thanks Gatie, thank you