Latest / The Ethnos360 Podcast / When Strength Runs Out
Transcript
- Ethnos360: Welcome friends to the Ethnos360 podcast where we talk about vital topics, have honest conversations, and unpack the Great Commission. This episode is part of the series we call Real People, Real Stories. We hope you can see and hear your own story in today's conversation and be reminded that God is going to be as faithful with you as He has been with our guests. Hey Sharon, thanks for being here with us. You're welcome. Glad to be here. Okay, so I would love to start off by you just telling us a little bit about ⁓ your background, how you grew up, your childhood, what life was like in the beginning for you. Okay. Yes, I was born into a Christian family. My parents were saved in their early adult years, so they did not grow up ⁓ with Christian influence or with Christian parents. So when they became believers, they were on fire for the Lord ⁓ right away. And they decided they wanted to go to a Christian university to learn more about God's Word. And so that's where they met was when they were studying God's Word and heard about missions during that time. And then God worked in their hearts for them to desire to go to the mission field. So of course that was not very popular with their parents who didn't know anything about a relationship with God or the need to reach the lost with the gospel. So that was a pretty big, huge thing for both sides of the family. But my mom and dad chose to follow the Lord and they got heard about new tribes mission. so they decided to... go through training. And that's when I was born. My sisters and I actually, I have two sisters who were born one year apart from me, one older, one younger. So I was the middle one. And when I was around five years old, right before we were about to head to West Africa as missionaries, as a family, that's when my mom, she had been teaching us, reading us Bible stories, like she had been faithfully. sharing truth and my dad too. But it was when I was five right before we were going to head off on the, we were actually going to go by boat first. Okay. But then they, the, canceled and they were not able to get enough places on some cargo ship or something. So God provided enough money that they could go by airplane. Hallelujah. Yeah. Right. ⁓ my goodness. I found that out not too long ago. I had never really realized that. Anyway, so my mom was one night before bedtime talking with my sisters and I ⁓ about Christ and about his sacrifice on the cross and just kind of giving us the gospel in a different, maybe in a different way than normal. I'm not sure, but that's when I remember that really clicking in my heart and mind to understand that I was a sinner separated from God and that he paid for my sin and ⁓ that he wanted to give me eternal life if I believed in him. so I believed that he was my savior then along with my sisters. So that was a pretty special evening. And then I think it was really just two months later that we took off to go to West Africa. ⁓ my parents worked for... So I grew up there from age five till I was 17. So that was all my formative years pretty much. And ⁓ God used them in many different support roles over the years there. I got to see them just serving faithfully in behind the scenes roles, guest house and government representative and hospitality, ⁓ taking care of kids. ⁓ leadership roles and all of that. And then for my teenage years, they actually finally got, well, they had wanted to go into a people group to start learning a language and culture, but that it actually didn't happen until I was a teenager. And so during those couple of years, my last year of high school and the year following, I stayed and helped them work. just helping out. My brother had been born by then, so I was helping homeschool him, which was kind of hilarious because I didn't know what I was doing, of course. I don't think any mom, sister knows. My mom had been a ⁓ pre-K teacher. OK. So she, I felt like she knew way more than I did, but it was to help her out so she could actually ⁓ do some language study and things like that. So it was during those two years that ⁓ I really learned more as a young adult what was actually really happening on the mission field. I was paying attention, I guess, more in those years and asking God what did he want me to do with my life? so I had had a wonderful experience growing up there. I had had so many been exposed to so many different types of missionary work during that time, which I actually, as I've gotten older, I'm so appreciative of because it gave me a taste of the whole team that it takes to get the gospel to these people who have never heard. ⁓ at the time, I wasn't knowing that that's what God was exposing me to, of course. But anyway, in my senior year and then the year after, I was able to ⁓ start to learn some of the culture and language of the people group where my parents were at. Okay. And see that they had, cause they had never had the gospel yet. So just see team dynamics, see what it was like to live and build friendships with a couple of the teenage girls there. One of the gals that was our best friend, she was, had had polio as a child. And so she would, she actually was our health house help as well. She would come, but really was our buddy, know, me and my sister who were there at the time. And so getting to know her was just a joy. And we got to see how real, I wouldn't say that I hadn't seen that before in my previous experiences, just getting to know people as a child, but that was for sure one that stands out, a relationship that made ⁓ an impact on me. And knowing that she did not know Christ as her savior, she didn't understand the Bible yet. No one had been able to teach through the Bible yet at that time. So that was heavy too, because there would be ⁓ deaths that would happen in the village and you'd hear the mourning and you'd go to the funerals and it was just, super heavy, which was good for me to experience that these people do not have the truth. They don't know Christ yet. And so was... the sadness of that was very deep for me. Well, during that time, I got the opportunity to also go visit another three people groups that were in the eastern part of the country, along with one of the leadership families, couples. And so that was quite the adventure, getting to go, you know. over the river and through the woods on these really rough roads. But the best part was getting to see the different stages of the gospel getting to these people groups. And one of them had just ⁓ had seven teenagers become their first believers. And they gave their testimonies. And that just impacted me to see them. talk about going from darkness to light, from fear to peace, from bondage to freedom. I remember them using those contrasts. I don't know exactly what they said in their testimonies other than that Christ was the one who had delivered them. And it was really right in that trip and during that time that I remember just saying to the Lord, I want to be a part of this. There's people like this all over the world, not just here in Africa. I want to commit my life, surrender to him, to do with me whatever, but to be able to be a part of that I knew would be a privilege. So in November, we went back to the country I grew up in. We were there for a leadership forum. one of those, that same people group, one of those believers is now, he's my age, but he was at the conference we were at with his wife. got to meet him. I hadn't seen him since that one incident. And ⁓ that was just such a joy. he remember you? He did, but he would remember my parents more. But he didn't have any idea that his testimony had impacted me like that. So I was able to share that with him and his wife and then to thank him for having chosen to follow Jesus and how that was a domino effect into my life. then, you know, he's now still serving the Lord and ⁓ is one of the, is the director of Campus Crusade in the capital city of that country. So it's like so crazy. so cool. What a cool, man, that's so cool. Like a full circle story. And then just to get to see, know that God has used both of our lives in all kinds of different ways, but that I got to meet him again. Yeah, and that the Lord was like allowed for you guys to meet again and for you to be able to talk to him. That's so cool. Yeah, so that was really encouraging. OK, so I have a question that jumped to the present. That's OK. OK, so you became like you really you trusted the Lord at age five and then you really felt like a pull to working, you know, as a missionary yourself in your teen years. Where like did you always? have like a really tight relationship with God or did it ever switch from being like I know who God is to he's my friend and I talk to him all the time? Yeah. I would say I kind of skipped that in my first part of the story, but I would say when I was ⁓ starting into middle school ⁓ at the school that we were going to there in the country, ⁓ one of my dorm parents would teach us every night from the word of God and emphasize how much we could have a relationship with God as well. It wasn't just for the adults, you know, we as growing up kids could could really know God. It not just because I knew all the Bible stories, of course, and I knew just all the facts, like lots of facts that kids know. I knew how to do the whole books of the Bible and things, all those. information things. But it was at that point that I remember God really starting to wake me up to call me, to pull me towards himself, to start to know him personally in a walk with him and that I could start learning how to do that. So through my middle school, high school years, I was learning and growing in that. There was definitely some influential mentors and people in my life that I saw. have a authentic walk with God that really, and my parents too. Of course, my parents were a huge influence all through those years and I am so grateful. could not, yeah, I can't even thank them enough for that. That they were, of course, having their growing pains and going through all of their maturing in Christ walk with him. ⁓ experiences, but they were always impacting our lives for the truth and guiding us towards the Lord, too. But it was, during those years that I really started to get a hunger to learn how to walk ⁓ and believe God's word for myself personally. But I would say then, okay, so I graduated, was impacted, wanted to become a missionary myself, came back to the States, went to Bible college. to start being trained. ⁓ It really wasn't until the end of my, and so, you I'm learning, you're learning lots more. But I kind you have a new culture too. Yes, adjusting back to another culture, what's big, how to get your driver's license, to do banking, all of those things. Yeah. But I kind of, in my heart of hearts, you now when you look back on life, you can see, I pretty much thought I knew. whole lot. I know a lot. You know, I was barely 18. Oh, I know, I know the Bible. Do I really need to do this Bible training? Oh, yes, I really should. I know that's what I should do. But it really wasn't till the end of those two years that God actually really showed me my heart attitude and how knowledge had puffed me up. and how I really was walking mostly in performance. People seeking people approval, trying to impress people that I was so mature. It's like embarrassing when you talk about it, but it just really was revolutionary that that he opened my eyes to that because I was about, I'm skipping ahead again, but. I was about to get married to Steve, my husband. And I remember just going through these few weeks talking with some of the other missionary kids and they were going through the same kind of enlightening of, ⁓ maybe we're just kind of doing all the things right and performing and basically trying to walk with God in our own self effort. That's really what I didn't realize I was doing, but I was... I needed to see that. And so there was quite the breaking experience that God did for me. I remember crying, I think, for a whole week on and off straight because I started to realize what I'd been doing with the knowledge he'd privileged. He had given me as a privilege of knowing his word, but I was just kind of using it as a being a good girl thing. You know, I was just trying to be as good as I could be and perform as good as I could. But you were young and that's what you thought too. Yes. know, like. And I'd been told that I was a good girl all my life. you know, I started to believe it. Which, ⁓ yeah, just the pride involved in that was starting. God started to begin to open my eyes to see what was going on in my heart and that I was not really trusting Him to walk with Him. I knew I was saved and I had believed that Christ was my savior, but then I was trying to do the rest kind of in my own. it down. You had it. And I thought I was doing a pretty good job of it. Bet you did. Thankfully, by God's grace, he broke through in my heart during those weeks, actually, because I was starting to think, how am I going to be a godly wife? I don't know that realm, how you start walking into that. that just was making me panic a bit, But it was so good what he was doing in my heart. And he's done that layer by layer, like gone deeper and deeper all through the years in that same vein of this is not about you, Sharon, trying to perform all of my... requirements, you know, like I would take all the do's and don'ts and then just try to do them all or not do them all as best as I could. And so he started to show me about how. the real truth of how in Christ, he looks at me through being in Christ, that I'm wrapped up in his righteousness, not my own, that I'm, you know, I'm still a needy sinner who cannot walk with him on my own strength. That's why he gave me the Spirit so that he, to indwell me and to empower me and to enable me to do his will, not me always trying to help him out. ⁓ yeah, but I've still got to work really hard to do this. So I just was wearing myself out with trying so hard to be this good Christian girl. And he's so that's he started then and he's continued, of course, that's sanctification, right? That's being changed and transformed by him and his word. But I am so, so thankful. Even though as painful as that was that I had to realize I don't really know how to walk with God very well at all. I'm just at the beginning baby stage. It was then that I really can point back to seeing him start that ⁓ opening my eyes to be able to be broken before him in a good way and then to just start letting his spirit. transform my thinking towards my identity in Christ and who I really was and how he could really ⁓ propel me or be the one to empower me to walk with him and to then serve him. Okay, I want to, I know we jumped ahead to Bible school. Can we, I want to know what it was like as a senior, you said you were a senior in high school and your parents moved into an actual like, tribal location, correct? What was, I feel like for a lot of people, they would think, why on earth would you take, your kids are almost graduating, why would you start then? And you seem to have a pretty good experience with it, but what was that like, what did your other friends maybe who were in the same area, what did they think about this? And what did you think about it? I remember being excited about it. I don't remember it being any big, huge, traumatic thing for me. It was just a two-hour road trip from where I was going to school. So they were closer in proximity to where we were going to school versus a 16-hour bus trip up to the capital city where they were working in the guest house ministry. So that change actually was like a positive for us and my parents, you know. So I don't really know, don't remember it being anything but positive that we were excited to get to do that with my mom and dad. And we knew it was something they had always wanted to have a taste of or to be involved in. But yes, I don't. I think of it as any big traumatic thing at that time. I'm sure if maybe we had just come as teenagers from our home country to that country, that there's another whole realm where people have a lot more adjustments as a teen teenager. yeah. Okay. So you went to Bible school and where was it located? In Michigan. In Michigan. ⁓ And when did Steve, your husband, when did he? pop into the picture. yeah, I had never dated anybody because I grew up in a small missionary community and I was scared of all that and decided I was not going to get in any relationship. ⁓ yeah. You know how that is. yeah. Until I had finished my college years. So that's what I went in with and two months into my freshman semester. Steve was a senior. OK. Yes. And he had his eye on me, I guess. And ⁓ he asked me out. OK. And I did not even know how to respond to that because I didn't know about dating it. I figured you don't date until you are starting to think this person could be a potential ⁓ spouse. so I was scared of all that. ⁓ I was scared of all kinds of things. But I went out with them and then started to just hang out here and there getting to know them. And it was uncanny how many things just we wanted to both do the same thing with our lives to do church planning with an unreached people group to raise our family in that realm. Of course, we had no idea at that point what that looked like. ⁓ So our goals in life were the same and then a lot of similarities in our backgrounds and upbringing. so even though I was scared of the whole thing, I think by the end of a couple months, probably, Steve says he knew right away that he wanted to marry me, but it's a good thing you didn't tell me that. I'd have probably run away. ⁓ Yeah, by the time he graduated, we had agreed to keep in touch. Okay. You know, and so he decided to go to Venezuela and work with his brother for that year while I was working through my Bible college years. Okay. Yeah. When you saw yourself serving as a missionary, like, did you think, I want to come back to Africa? Like, was that on your heart? Or were you very just open to Lord just wherever I just want to do church planting like where was your heart in that? Yeah, I think I probably initially was thinking I'd go back to Africa. but then when I met Steve and he was interested in Venezuela I just thought well, I think I'd be okay with that You know, I didn't and I did get a chance to go visit while he was down there as well Okay, so then that opened my heart to it in a whole different way and I was totally willing to go wherever God would take us. Yeah. Okay. And how did, where was his pull towards Venezuela? Where was it? Like how did he, how did Steve, like where, where did his desire to go to Venezuela, where did that come from? Because he had, was there visiting his brother, working alongside, but visiting his brother. Okay. So basically his brother is what brought him there. And that gave him the exposure to the country and to what was going on there. And so then he was interested more there. Yeah. OK. So you're a freshman. You're like, OK, I don't know what to do. We'll keep in touch when he graduates. What happened then? You went to visit him, obviously. Yeah, we wrote letters. You know, it was just snail mail. Yeah. So about once a month, I'd maybe get a letter from him and then he'd be. waiting for one to come in the mail bag on the airplane all the way in the middle of the jungle from me. And so we just kind of wrote back and forth. And then he started to suggest that I come visit him so I could see what it was like down there. And so I did that summer in between semesters. Went to visit for three weeks. And so then that was, yeah. But it was all just letters. OK. Yeah. total old fashioned snail mail. ⁓ And so how far after you graduating from Bible school, like when did you guys get married? Three weeks after I graduated. Okay, there we go. Okay. All of that that I was sharing earlier was happening like in that short amount of time. What did that look like with having missionary parents? What did that look like? What did your wedding look like? Were you able to have all your family? Were you not like? Sure. Well, it was really hard for my parents. They didn't see me for two years. I left and we had, you know, just corresponded back and forth, maybe two phone calls in that whole two years. Oh, wow. OK. Because it was five dollars a minute to talk on the phone and you could barely hear. OK. Yeah. So. It was hard for them because they weren't watching me grow and being able to grow with me. And then they had never even met Steve. Yeah, that's why. So that was tough. OK, now that I have gone through life and my kids are now married, I'm thinking I've apologized to my parents. I'm so sorry that that you didn't have a chance to even watch me growing or meet my future husband like that. That's a thing. So they really were trusting God. Right. I mean, that's kind of what you sign up for, too, being a missionary. You know, know, you're to have to make sacrifices, especially in realms of, you know, kids and grandkids and where you can be. And, you know, all those things come into play when you think about giving your life for the gospel. yeah, it's a tough one. OK, they survived. Yeah. And they knew they had met Steve's parents a couple of times. And they knew some people who knew. him and his parents that helped to ease their conscious, their other hearts about me or about him. And then it was how about Sharon? What about your sisters in this? Like did they did anybody else have a chance to meet Steve? Yes, ⁓ my older sister did. And then all of our family did get to be at the wedding. OK. But it was my mother-in-law who planned our wedding. and did so much for me. I had no idea what to do or how to go about it. So she was a huge blessing and so accepting and kind to me all through that time. yeah, we were able to have all of our siblings who were, there was a lot of missionary involvement on both sides of the families, but we were able to have everybody there in our immediate families. ⁓ and we're married on a Monday night at seven o'clock because that was the only day of the whole year they could all be there. So, okay, there you go. You do what you gotta do on a Monday night. On a Monday night. Yeah. Okay. So you guys get married and then what happens next? So we got married. We ended up going back. That was in Pennsylvania. Okay. Cause that's where Steve's home area is. And that became our home area as a family. ⁓ We went back to Michigan and worked and just adjusted to being married for about six months. And then we started into missionary training in Kentucky at the time. how long was that program in Kentucky? So that was a year. OK. Yeah, ⁓ we were there for a year doing more of the practical training of learning how to live. in tougher situations, learning the whole biblical foundations, how to teach Bible foundations to do church planning, relationship building, how to work as teams, different things like that, a lot of practical things during that year. And then we, at that time, then you needed to move to Missouri. for a year of language training, ⁓ how to learn a language and how to do linguistics and translation and a bunch of things like that, which that is not my, you know, not my... Your strong suit? Strong suit, no. And in that year, our first son was born ⁓ during that training time. So, yep, he was born. Then, and during that time as well, my husband's dad... had a brain had brain cancer and we were going through that with them as well, which is a sad time. ⁓ yeah. Of just, you know, I never got to I didn't get to know him or get to be with him as a father-in-law very much after we got married because he brain cancer a year later. And then he passed away as soon as we were finishing ⁓ missionary training. So and they were in Pennsylvania. Yes, they were in Pennsylvania. What was that like? Like, did you feel like you guys had the opportunity to mourn or did you feel like we're on a track and we got to keep going? Like, what did that look like? Yeah, well, we moved back to Pennsylvania to start our ministry partnership development, which we called it something different back then, but started raising our support team. And I think during that year, that was probably a good year for that, but it was also very occupied by, ⁓ okay, we've got to go to visit churches and build relationships and all of that at the same time. there was, there's a combination of, of a lot of stresses going on that year for sure. so I can't really answer that question super well, cause I'm not, I think my husband grieved well, but I don't. He would have to answer that for himself more. How long did you guys have in Pennsylvania then before you were able to move overseas? Yeah, so we were there about a year. OK. And the thing that was an advantage for us was that Steve's dad had been a representative for our mission for 30 years. And so he had contacts all over the Northeast, especially. And we wanted to kind of stay in that area. So Steve just would call up church after church after church that knew his dad. And that really was a nice way to get into a lot of those places. And quite a few of them took us on to be, you know, to support us and to get behind us. So that was a huge blessing during that time. Yeah. Okay. And we had decided to go to Venezuela ourselves. So, yeah, that was that decision was made. Do you feel like you had as much? of a say, I don't want, maybe that's the wrong way to put it, but because it was on Steve's heart and his brother was there, did you feel like, ⁓ we're just going there because. I was really fine to go, I think because I had gotten to visit and I also just knew there's needs everywhere and it wasn't that there was a wrong place to go. We wrestled with it during our training year time of is there a right place and how do you know and all of these things and. I think Steve probably wrestled with it more than I did. But I was like, I'll go wherever. I was so glad we could go together at that point. Yeah, I get that. OK, so on your way to Venezuela, you have one son. and upon arrival, were your first memories of arriving in Venezuela? Oldest son was almost two at the time. And we lived with my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, not the same ones who Steve is actually Steve's sister. We lived with them a few weeks before our apartment opened up. And I just remember for me, because I had grown up in Africa, it just seemed nicer to me. Like there was more things available in the stores. ⁓ there was nicer places to live. And it just was, I had this expectation that it was going to be horrible, terrible, no good. You're going to have a really rough adjustment. And it was actually a lot easier than I thought. Now for Steve, it was different story. He thought it wouldn't be so hard and then it was extra hard for him that first year. we- Guess your expectations really play a big part in our experience, don't they? But different language to learn and culture for sure, different language and culture. But ⁓ so there was a lot of tough things that first year of learning the trade language and just learning how to go to the store and be able to buy what you needed to. But there was other missionaries around who helped helped us out and whole held us by the hand and took us along with them for a while until we could actually start learning how to. communicate little by little on our own, you know, and how to get transportation and different things like that. So that was definitely a huge blessing that we had people alongside us. We weren't all by ourselves. you guys, was there like a base that you were on? Were you encouraged to live in the city? I guess I don't know, like where, where it was in a city. Okay. And there were people, we just all, the different ones who were studying the national language at the time were in just different apartments that were being rented around the city. So there wasn't like a collective place for that part. So did you guys have classes that you did or was it you guys have a language helper and that's how you, like what was the learning style? We had classes we attended and then we would have practice time. in the afternoons and study time. And we were encouraged then to get out and use it, know, what we had studied in our classes. what was that like with a two-year-old? Yeah. So one of the ladies, the Venezuelan ladies, ⁓ who was a believer too, she took care of our son, Seth. ⁓ he became really close with her, even though they couldn't communicate. Like initially she couldn't really speak much of any kind of English and he couldn't speak Spanish, of course. So it was ahead of its adjustment time. And he was a pretty clingy kid because we had just gone through all of these transitions and changes in order, you know, to get to that point. So, yeah, that was definitely some adjustment. And then I got pregnant with our second son during that year. And so there was all the things of... being pregnant in another country and expecting a baby and learning how to go to doctors. And thankfully there were other missionaries that helped us out with that too. I don't know how you do it if you were there all by yourself trying to figure all that out. But were you nervous about delivering in a different country or was that just like, yeah, yes, I had lots of fears all the time. Lots of fears, but it ended up working being that my sister got married around the same time that our baby was due, our second son was due. So we came back to the States for the summer and I ended up having him here in Florida. So that was a blessing. Yes. A combination of things that ended up working out that way. But other ladies were at that time having their babies there and it would have been okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I was actually relieved to that it worked out the other way. Gotta get out of here. Okay. Okay. So now you have two. And how quickly after your second was born, did you guys transition into moving into a tribal location? Yes. So we knew by the end of that year of language study, we'd been talking with our leadership there and they had a couple of options of places that they thought we would fit or that we were open for doing church planting at the time. And so that had been decided by then. And so when we knew, when we came back to have the baby to the states, that we were then going to be going back, getting our stuff ready, heading into the village, which was very remote. So all of that was quite... ⁓ That was all very huge for me. Steve was so excited to finally be getting to the place that we had said we were going for all these years. And I'm starting to get more and more insecure, more and more ⁓ fearful. ⁓ no, now I have a newborn baby and a toddler. was our oldest was three by then. And so there was just all of those mom fears and insecurities about what would happen if they got sick and what would we What would I have enough food for our family? Was I ordering enough food ahead of time? How would the people receive us? What would it be like in so many different ways, you know, going into a place that I had never been? Steve had visited there once, but I had never been in until the day we moved in. With our very white little two and a half month old. He looked extra white by the time we got in there. the bugs loved him too. They started biting him right away. So there was just all of the, just remember thinking as that airplane, because we had aviation, mission aviation that would fly us in and out of this little airstrip in the middle of the jungle. And ⁓ I just remember as that plane took off, just kind of thinking, ⁓ maybe I want to be on that airplane. Am I sure I want to be here? Yeah, there was this kind of some real panicky moments in my heart during that time. I can imagine. But then I also knew, this is where God was leading us and this is where we're supposed to be. He was going to be with us. He didn't leave on the airplane. Hallelujah, right? That he goes with us every step of the way and his presence and his word and his spirit, his strength is always available to us. Of course, I still was at the very beginning stages really of learning how to walk in that in a practical everyday sense. you were young, I mean, that. Yes, I was just 23 years old at the time. yes, I was. That's a lot for a 23 year old. OK, so moving into the tribe, watching the plane fly away. Did you guys have a house already built? Was it like kind of set up already? you like, are we like talking brand spanking new? Right. We were not the first missionaries there. We joined an existing team and there were houses there. One family was on furlough so we could use their house initially. And then there was another one that we then ended up moving into that was kind of the oldest house on the little base. we fixed it up and lived there for the rest of our time. So thankful, we were very thankful for that. We were not just sleeping in tents or in some little mud shack, you know, with barely a roof over your head. So we had screen windows and cement floors and tin roof and walls in a house and a bathroom that had You had an indoor bathroom? Yes, we indoor plumbing. look at you go. I know, running water. It's the dream, living the dream. That's awesome. awesome. awesome. awesome. That's That's That's That's That's That's That's Yes. So that definitely was a huge, huge helpful thing for adjustment. Yes. Yep. Yes. You're still isolated. You still don't speak a lick of the language. You don't know anything about the culture. there's, you know, just one little way that, you you were able to... Yes, that definitely helped to have some of those comforts of American feel. I mean, it still was not American at all, but it was, you there were places to, there was a table and chairs or somewhere to sit. You weren't just living in on the dirt floor. So that definitely was definitely helpful for me. Right away. I was very intrigued and wanted to start to get to know the ladies and they all had, most all of them had babies, know, of course. So I had a baby and a toddler. They had babies and toddlers. That was an immediate, like that was one of the blessings of as hard as it is to be a young mom in that new situation, it was a huge blessing to just have that icebreaker where I couldn't say anything yet, but and they couldn't say anything to me. We could smile at each other and look at our babies. And ⁓ and I think they they really love that, too, you know, that there was. Not that they had never seen any little white babies, because there had been missionaries there for 25 years when we got there. OK, so pretty established work. OK, being as it was pretty established, did you guys have, was there anything in writing, was there anything that made it easier for you guys to learn language or was it still pretty primitive in that way? It had, it had, they had developed an alphabet by that point. OK. There was. one of the missionaries had become fluent in the language and the others knew to different levels. So they definitely were a big help to us at the beginning and helped to guide us along and teach, you know, get us started into learning. ⁓ Right ⁓ three weeks after we arrived, one of our literacy consultants came in and was helping, helped to put the language into Primmer, know, helped develop Primmers and do that whole process to start. Actually, I think the Primmers were mostly developed before then, but she was doing all the finalizing help with that and then helping to learn, excuse me, how to teach us how to train the teachers, not us, but the other missionaries, train the teachers, how to teach their own people how to read and write their own language and the people we were with. They were just so eager to learn. They loved learning. They were smart at it. They were motivated. They were a monolingual group. they just ate it up. And that doesn't always happen. There's a lot of times lots of struggles with that. So that was exciting. Like right away, here we are three weeks in there and we get to see, we kind of got to be in there for the best parts of the whole church planting really. And I would like to say at this point that I know God had used all those years of other missionary families being in there. People had had to leave for different reasons and the language was super duper complex and hard to learn. So it's hard to get past a certain level to fluency. But I know that the missionaries that were there that sacrificed their time, their lives to be there. as well as all those back home who had prayed for this people and had ⁓ given their finances and been a part of encouraging those families how God saw all that and that they are a part of these people coming to Christ. know, like they had had a part in the whole process. When we got there, there was a team, but It wasn't working with all the ones who had been there all those years, you but I just wonder if what it'll be like in heaven of how God will reward all of those prayer warriors and those missionaries that didn't get to see the fruit, but were truly ⁓ used by God during those years. And I just want to honor those people because I really feel like We're gonna be surprised in heaven at how he rewards those who have prayed so faithfully for so many years and maybe never got to even hear that the people came to Christ, you know, and that a church was planted. that is ⁓ truly on my heart to ⁓ appreciate and give honor to those people. And I've gotten to meet a couple of them, but not most of them. So... I'm just, it was an honor and a privilege to get to be there, to be a part of that team. There were definitely challenges and hard things throughout those years ⁓ that they were really probably the hardest years of my life for my own growth and how God used some of those challenges and even, you know, relationship struggles to show me how proud my heart really was that I kind of had thought. that I could be this good missionary wife and mom and do all the things of missionary life that I somehow could pull that off. But really, he showed me that my heart was so that maybe I receive some glory for it or that I could impress those who back home who have sent you or other missionaries. I'm not even quite sure where my mind was in all of that. He just used a lot of the trials and the hardships of being in an isolated place and raising kids. It was a great place in one sense for raising kids, but then a very hard place too. was because it was so isolated. ⁓ Home schooling was a very big challenge for me day in and day out and learning how to depend on God for that because I didn't have the wisdom in each of our boys. were different and how to meet their needs and where they were at and how to be make school fun. wasn't a very fun teacher, I don't think, but ⁓ just learning how to trust God day after day in those kinds of things. And the weather was another, it sounds kind of funny. No, it doesn't sound the weather was so oppressively humid. don't even, rarely did I ever wake up in a day and feel like I had much energy. ⁓ I just would wake up and drag through the day. ⁓ I think as oppressive humidity, if you lived here in Florida without air conditioning, we would all be really dragging. So that was a big thing. I wasn't sick and ill a lot, but I just didn't have much energy. So I felt like I was always pushing myself through. And then now I look back and say, wow, that was God. Constantly reminding me that I was weak. I could not live there on my own strength I could not live there in my own wisdom for sure because that ran out real fast or the my my personal love for say Being that for the people for being a church planter for being a good co-worker or wife Like that love that we have naturally just in a friendly kind of way it just runs out real quick, you know, as soon as you hit the afflictions and hard times. And so those were definitely what were some of the ways that God like in those times when it was like really hard, are there any particular moments that you really are able to like as you were praying, as you were working through things that you're able to look back and be like, this is how God answered this prayer or this is how how he met me where I was, and this is exactly what I needed at that moment, and it was just very apparent that he was with you. Do you have? Yeah. Yeah, many. Too many stories to tell on that one. Pick your faves. think ⁓ it took a while for me to get desperate enough that I realized if I did not have God's word, the Spirit, Jesus, speaking into my life, coming into my mind daily, I was not gonna make it. Like there was just the moments of loneliness and God was taking away a lot of my crutches that I always had leaned on, which would have been really close friendships or conveniences, being able to. go to the store when you want to go to the store. There was no store. Being able to just get away quote unquote from your little environment. There was the airstrip and there was a little river and a creek and that was it. It was all jungle. And Steve and I were not very, we were not Tarzan and Jane. Like we were not, yay, let's go for a hike in the jungle and explore. just, that wasn't us and we didn't. We didn't really love all of that part of living out in that area. as far as ways that God, I think, like one of the things I appreciate so much was that someone had given me some Bible study, ⁓ work, not workbooks, like written Bible studies by certain, you know, great. Bible study writers, authors, what do I want to say? And being able to kind of get with Jesus in my little corner, in my chair, in the afternoons when my kids were napping was really where I started to grow in love with Jesus in a way I had never experienced before because I desperately needed him. And I wasn't going to be able to functioning there if I didn't. I went for a while where I was just kind of snacking on the word of God, I guess you would say. But it was, I got desperate to a point where I started to be able to really sink my teeth into the meat of the word and to study and to, I guess that would be one of those answers to prayer was like, Lord, show me how to have this relationship with you that will sustain me and where I can have satisfaction and security. Because I was... Well, I guess I was looking towards my husband to be that security and like a safe place for me. And he could, he's not Jesus. Nope. Like he can't be all of those things for me. And I was kind of sucking him dry, I think for a good while and just being more of a burden to him than a helper. And I would give him all my woes instead of taking them to Jesus or, and there's a time for that obviously, but just learning how to. depend and walk with the Lord in a situation that doesn't change. It just keeps, it's hard every day. It's always hard and there's no light. Yeah. Yeah. Like that drove me to a desperateness for, for getting into the word of God and actually really learning to feed myself and find my security in that, in Him in that. ⁓ I There was a time, okay, so after our first four years there, we came back to the States and then had our third son. And this is one of the times that I think you might be referring to. He was born here in the States on one of our home assignments, but he was born with a cleft lip and a cleft palate. And we didn't know that until he was born. And I had always wondered, what does it, how would I react to something like that? you know, a hard situation that is beyond your control and God has obviously gave him to us that way. And that was one of those moments of experiences, experiencing his grace, his peace, his strength that just flooded over me in those, in that time, because we didn't know how that was going to affect our lives for going back to the mission field. didn't know. how he was gonna be, how God was gonna provide help. But I just remember walking through those days with people praying for us and then just experiencing such a peace and a strength to just do the next thing, to take care of this, whatever it took to take care of him and to be a part of, because he had surgeries, repairs and all of that. after he had his first surgery to repair his lip, then we went back to Venezuela. Like we ended up being there for another eight years, know, beyond that. No, not eight years, six years. But ⁓ that was one of those times where I just remember ⁓ just experiencing like such strength in it. Now it got harder when we went back to the village and we His feeding was a challenge and he had ear infections and all of those things and then homeschooling our kids. we also, yeah, just had a lot of hard things that happened that year. But just to see God's faithfulness and when we just were brought to the end of ourselves over and over again and how he just would always remind me of how you gotta come to me. I will give you strength. I will give you what you need in this. You can't come up with what you need on your own. Did you guys ever get to a point where you were ready to just throw in the towel and be like, you know what, this is actually, we're done, see ya. like that year that we went back in, I remember feeling that way, yeah, couple of times. Then what kept you? Like how did you, what kept you? Yeah, what kept us? ⁓ I think there was just a long period of loneliness for me at one stretch during that time. Number one, it was hard to get in and out of the place. So you couldn't just jump on an airplane and say, see ya, I'm done. Also, you've put all this effort into learning, trying to learn this language and culture. And our pride probably was linked in there of not wanting to be a failure and give up and all of that. ⁓ really what keeps you is the spirit of God in you just like bearing witness to your heart that this is worth it. I am with you. I am guiding you. Hang in like hang in there with me, know him just giving that encouragement when it's needed. But it really was going back to the word of God and you know, versus like my grace is enough for you. My strength is made perfect in weakness. His power resting on us in those times of weakness. And I still am weak. Like I still don't, I think now I embrace it in a whole different way than then I was fighting against it. I hate this feeling. I don't feel adequate. I'm not enough. I don't have enough strength, not enough wisdom. This is frustrating. And I would just fight in my heart with the Lord on that instead of just being open to receive what he had to give me. I was really. not hadn't learned it wasn't wasn't getting that it took me a long time to get that and i'm still learning about that of course but but then also ⁓ the passage in matthew 11 28 was always over the years he's always encouraged me with that come to me he invites us to him yeah all you who are weary and heavy laden and that's our lives are often that right and he will give rest And so just what does that rest look like? It's not always physical, but it's that deep down soul rest that he wants to give to us. He wants us to be letting him carry the heavy burdens. He wants us to be surrendered to him and submitted to him to let him lead and not me yanking my way like, you know, to cattle in the yoke. I always picture myself when I'm being rebellious. Here I am. young little cow yanking over this way and God's trying to lead me and I'm just fighting against it. Well then you have more pain and yourself and all of that in the midst of it. learning how to submit to him and his authority in my life was huge during those years. ⁓ That is definitely a lifelong lesson that we're all. He's always trying to teach us. But he's just so kind about the way that we go through the hard things and they don't feel kind or good. But it's in his kindness that he is growing us to be more and more like him and to learn who he is and how much he loves us. And that the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings is a part of living in this life that he uses to transform us to be. and conform us to be more like Jesus. So learning to accept suffering or hardship as actually a privilege that we are with him in it and he doesn't leave us. But he has so much to teach us. And he cares enough to give us those things so that we can grow and we can be sanctified. Right. It's a part of living in this world too, you know, but Okay, so what was the transition then going from being in the tribe to needing to leave and what was that like? Yeah, so there a church was planted in the 1999. That was the first group of 150 believers and that truly privilege of a lifetime, joy of a lifetime to get to be a part of that. It was all glory to the Lord because we saw how fragmented we were, how weak we were as a missionary team, yet God through His Word and His Spirit, and it being clearly understood, just did an amazing miracle to bring that, you know, about 150 at the beginning. And so they were being discipled for about seven years before we had to leave. And about a year before, the government declared that we needed to be out of there. There was definitely signs that it could happen. And so we all were a little on edge. We all were praying. We realized this is a possibility. We don't know what God's going to allow. That was that was a year of a lot of ⁓ insecurity, trusting what does God have for us? If we do have to leave, what is that transition supposed to look like? I remember him using ⁓ the verse. And Psalm, I can't remember the chapter now, but it was like that he is our sure foundation. ⁓ The stability that we need in times of insecurity. And I just remember grabbing onto that and hanging on for dear life. Yeah. It's like, ⁓ yes, Lord, that's what we need. He is our foundation, you know, and he's the one who doesn't change, even if our life circumstances start to change and we don't know what's next. ⁓ So. We just were going along, know, we're functioning as best we could with our, ⁓ in the middle of the jungle at that time, continuing discipleship. And then when we knew we had to leave and it was made clear, ⁓ we were able to have at least three months to get ready to leave. so we were able to, our kids were at that time, two of them were in the city going to school. living with their uncle and aunt. And they were able to come back for the last Christmas together there. And so we really just made the most of all of those months for teaching the people, training them, preparing them for what might be coming. ⁓ But the blessing was we knew that they had a good foundation and had already been sending out their own missionaries by that point. Like they were already... reaching to their people. seven years. Yeah, they were amazing. It had been probably about three years in that they were already sending their own missionaries out. they were functioning well, but they were scared too. know, and it was, it was lots of unknowns during that time. But God has remained there with them. I remember when we flew out for that last time, the people in town had been able to print the book of Titus. for that last fly in to come get us. And so we were able to hand out the Book of Titus to them. And they're very non-emotional people as far as showing ⁓ their feelings or what's really going on inside of them. All of them grabbed their little Book of Titus and had it up here in front of their faces and were just reading, all of them reading out loud because this was a new... piece of scripture for them. So they were just soaking it up. But also it was like a protection for, oh yeah, and they're leaving and yikes, what's happening next? But that was one of the most beautiful pictures to leave with, even though I was just bawling my head off. You couldn't see anything. And I was trying to say goodbye to them, but they don't really do that. And so it was just like, oh man, I don't know if I'll ever, I knew I'd see them in heaven. So that was huge comfort. But just as we flew away knowing they have the Spirit of God that's staying with them and will care for them and teach them, guide them, do all the comforting that, and then he, the Spirit's going with us. Like, I don't know, that presence of God in us is just such a blessing that I've learned more and more about to appreciate because, wow, that is an amazing, amazing gift that God the Father gave as Jesus went back to heaven. And we just take it for granted so much of the time, don't we? We have the resurrection power of Jesus in us to obey Him and to do the things He calls us to do and directs us to do. So many times I've just stifled that or taken it for granted or totally not believed it. Yeah, absolutely. And tried to do it on my own again. But during that time, that was a huge comfort just knowing. Spirit was still there with them and they have continued to spread his word and disciple their own people and there's 1500 believers at this point. We don't know a number. Yeah, because we've just had fractured communications and liaison with our co-workers who've gone back and forth to the city. that yeah, just a wonderful work of God there. Miracles. Yeah. But then as we left, We didn't know if we would stay in the city there. We had three school-aged boys at the time. And they would still allow you to stay in the city. You didn't have to completely leave the country. Eventually, most everybody did, ⁓ as the thing has got worse. But ⁓ at that time was when Steve's older brother had Wyumi, the idea of Wyumi in his mind, ⁓ and needed staff for that. And so that's how those who don't know what why you mean. yes. ⁓ So you mean why you me is a ethnos 360s ⁓ mobilization center in Pennsylvania, central Pennsylvania. And it's an experience. People can just go for a weekend or a week and experience ⁓ in a nutshell what it kind of looks like to to go with the gospel with. the Word of God to an unreached people group and plant a church. like from start to finish, what does that kind of look like? It's an experience, educational, also hands on. And then there's a missionary team there that we've all been on the mission field. So we were there. We ended up then helping start that in 2006 and seven. And then that has gone. So his brother just had this idea. Yeah, had the idea to bring college groups, youth groups, church groups to that location and kind of do like a retreat. Okay. Host them, feed them, have them just stay there and you have their undivided attention then, you know. They're stuck. Yeah, stuck. And that has, yeah, God has really used that in lot of ways to raise up more, more laborers, more missionaries to go out to the field and. All right. And then you jumped into Wyoming. Well, it was just starting. So none of us knew what we were doing. So you planted Wyoming. It was just a gradual ⁓ starting of all that. ⁓ It's just been cool to be able to continue to share that story for all these years and continue to just praise God for what he did, but also to let it see God, to let God use it to affect other people who might challenge other people to go. Okay, so how long did you guys, how long were you in Pennsylvania working at Wyoming, working on and at? On and at. We lived on the campus there for 17 and a half years. Okay. And ⁓ so our sons finished raising our boys there. They graduated from high school there. We're in sports. And we were a part of the community there through their schooling and sports, especially, and got to learn a lot, experience a lot in just what it's like to be now back on the home end of the team that God has around the world, you know, now on the end of helping to raise up more missionaries. Yeah. And so. That definitely, you can lose perspective on that when you're on the state side end of the team in the behind the scenes ways. I was in the ⁓ kitchen and helping with the hospitality team and cleaning bathrooms and rooms. And there were definitely times cleaning a toilet. I think we had 37 of them on our campus when I would just, yeah, I knew I did not have the right attitude. would, and then the Lord would show me. that I could actually be doing that is unto him. I didn't have to be, oh, I got to scrub another toilet, you know, but just learning how to serve with joy in whatever he puts before us was a big lesson during those years. And also learning how to share what he has done with others in effective ways to. And men start, I got started to give me opportunities to mentor younger women during those years in Pennsylvania, especially. And just, man, I loved that. I didn't realize how much I would really, really enjoy that. But just sharing what God had done in some of my hardest years to teach me about walking with him was what he started to use to just overflow into some, into others' lives who were learning the same things. And so that's been a joy and a passion of my heart that I love to do. over the years. It's interesting hearing you talk about ⁓ being in the tribe and the isolation and the hardships and the struggles and then getting to see ⁓ how God blessed you then with a community where you were able to, not that you weren't able to impact people in the tribe and have community there. know you had a good community there as well, but ⁓ just to see the joy in your face talking about being able to pour into. you know, young women. Yeah. And I think in the tribe, was more because I was doing so much like home, you know, homeschooling kids and taking care of my family, trying to be keep Steve going. He was learning the language more than I was so that he could help with the teaching process. And in that particular area, the men and women met together. So they were all learning together that way. But I think What God showed me there with even just being a life example, men, ⁓ discipling by them watching our lives, I guess is what I was thinking, was just being challenged to be faithful to my, in my own family. And of course, in building friendships outside too, but just them watching us teach our own kids, ⁓ train our kids. ⁓ Of course we were. not doing that in any perfect way, but because we're not, there's no perfect parents, right? But just like ⁓ seeing a family function in front of them, I think was an impact to those, to the tribal people too. ⁓ And then I remember at times when I'd be frustrated that I couldn't communicate as well as I wanted to, being encouraged that our actions. show Christ's love as well. It doesn't have to all be in words. And I was comforted by, you know how 1 Corinthians 13 says, you have, you could have the speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but if you don't have love, it's nothing. And then like the flip of that, they encouraged me was cause I was thinking, I'm not speaking very good in these tongues and you know, of men anyway, but that you can show love even when you aren't speaking it fluently. And when you, and I know that's always the goal, everybody's trying to get to this, but I didn't ever get there. I didn't get to a fluent level and I couldn't have said I did a specific language thing to help the team. I helped the team in hospitality and friendship and all these other ways, which is really where my gifts are anyway. So I'm like, okay, God was showing me that then too. That's very valid. being a part of the body is varied gifts, you know, but that we can show love. And I think the ladies really knew I loved them, even though I couldn't teach them the Bible. Yep. know I Absolutely. But then that in the States, I did get to start with my, with my words saying more about what, yeah, yeah, what God's doing and what his truth can do for us, you know, in our lives. So you got to be an amazing blessing in Wyoming. When did you guys or when did I guess the mission reach out about ⁓ Steve potentially becoming the CEO and what did that look like and how did you feel about that? Well, he had been on the executive leadership team for 10 years, I think about around the time that the team was talking about, okay, who's gonna be the next CEO? both of us were just like, oh yeah, no, mm-mm, that would not be us. There's definitely a better choice out there. So we kind of at first were just no thanks, mm-mm. And then after a while, Steve would say to me, well... They keep coming back and mentioning my name and I'm not sure what to think about that. And so he was, you know, real not wanting to, but we both decided we at least need to ask God to help our hearts and minds to be willing if God wants us to, you know, if this is from God and what he wants next in our lives, then ⁓ Lord help us to start to be willing to surrender to him. in it. And so we saw like, ⁓ I could see that happening in my own heart for sure. And I think I realized probably sooner than Steve that we were going to probably do this thing sooner. And I thought, man, Lord, I guess maybe you've been preparing my husband for this for some years now, you know, I don't know. But so we were both scared of it at first, for sure. And then as God started to work in our hearts, I just it was He did help us to be willing. And then he did start to even give us the desire to follow him, whatever that would look like in it. So many unknowns and so, ⁓ I guess, had God not been working in my heart over the years, freeing me from the fear of man problems that I had, the fear of disapproval by others or criticism by others or... wanting to always be liked by everybody around me. know, like that drove me for many years in a wrong way. It was a snare to me. And God had been constantly working in all kinds of different ways, relationships, situations throughout the years to undo that and to break that and to help me to fear and reverence and honor Him more to learn how to do that. Like, okay, that's the answer. The key is to learn to fear God the most and to love him most and not be loving myself or being afraid of what others thought. So thankfully that had been happening in my own heart that really made it to where I could be open handed to say, Lord, well, if this is what you want, it's you who's going to guide every step and it's you who's the one who gives wisdom. We're not adequate. Of course we're not. We're not wise enough. We're not able to carry the loads, but he says, well, I'm not asking you to just come to me and I'll carry those, heavy stuff and I'll give wisdom. You like it. Yep. You like it. But I am, he has a store of wisdom that's that he generously gives when we will receive it and when we'll ask him for it. So, ⁓ I had a couple of friends who started praying for us to one, there were special special prayers, I felt like one friend encouraged me with that we would start to anticipate it with joy. This was when we were in our last year at Wyoming and starting to say kind of our goodbyes in one sense there to end well that we would anticipate it with joy and that God would give humble courage to especially Steve, but it's it's taken a lot of courage for me to God's courage. ⁓ And it was just so sweet to see how God has been doing that. Like he has, he helped us to then start to anticipate it with joy, even though there were so many unknowns and the transition is still ongoing. Like day to day, I often don't know what does he have me doing next, you know? But then to see courage for my husband, especially, it's been really, you just know that's God, it's him doing that. It has gone actually well. His grace has been enough and there have been the heavy hard things, but he's reminds us that he's right with us and this is his, this is his thing, you know, it's not ours. So we just keep hanging on to him, those truths in him and it's been a privilege to travel together. We didn't really do that hardly ever before into Just be a part of what God's doing in ethnos 360 here in the US centers as well as getting some international travel into. Thank you so much for being here and sharing with us all your stories and your life and being vulnerable and transparent. It's been really encouraging to listen to you. So I just want to say thanks. You're welcome. And? My privilege. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for investing the time to listen to today's episode. It's our prayer that what you heard causes you to think more about your next step as a believer who understands the Great Commission. If this was encouraging to you, please take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. We don't take the privilege of your time lightly, and if we can help answer any questions this episode may have raised in your minds, Feel free to reach out to us at podcast at ntm.org or you can contact us via our socials. And finally, this podcast is a production of Ethnos 360, all rights reserved.