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THE Most Powerful Factor That Limits Girl’s Development · Raising Daughters

0:14
Speaker 1: Hello friends, Doctor Tim Jordan back here with a brand
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Speaker 1: new topic, a brand new podcast, And this is a
0:23
Speaker 1: really important topic. I think all my podcasts, I hope
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Speaker 1: are important. And for any of you who are listening
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Speaker 1: to this, who are raising children or if you work
0:33
Speaker 1: with children, there may be nothing more important than this topic.
0:40
Speaker 1: And the topic is limiting beliefs, which are, in my experience,
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Speaker 1: the most powerful factor that can limit or enhance a
0:49
Speaker 1: girl's development. I had two weeks of summer campus summer.
0:54
Speaker 1: One week I did the learning sessions with the little kids,
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Speaker 1: the grade schoolers, those are four fifths and sixth graders.
1:00
Speaker 1: The second week I was with high school girls, and
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Speaker 1: I was reminded of how powerful those beliefs are that
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Speaker 1: we have acquired along the way in life. And I've
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Speaker 1: been talking about this at camps into parenting talks and
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Speaker 1: things for years. And I also read two books recently
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Speaker 1: that kind of validated my belief system. One of them
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Speaker 1: is called The Myth of Normal, Trauma, Illness and Healing
1:28
Speaker 1: in a Toxic Culture, The Myth of Normal by Gebora Mattee,
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Speaker 1: and the other is called what Happened to You by
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Speaker 1: Oh See I can't remember his last name is Perry,
1:41
Speaker 1: Bruce Perry, and I remember I was reminded of in
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Speaker 1: reading those books and also in listening to the kids
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Speaker 1: at camp, is that if kids are growing up in
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Speaker 1: a home where they don't always get the attention or
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Speaker 1: the love or the love that they need and deserve,
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Speaker 1: I think they have two potential options to try and
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Speaker 1: process their experiences what they're going through. Number One, they
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Speaker 1: can conclude that the people they rely on for love
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Speaker 1: are incompetent, they're bad people. There's no way they're ever
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Speaker 1: going to be there for me, and therefore I'm alone
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Speaker 1: in this scary, scary world. That's one option. The second
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Speaker 1: option is to say to themselves, I'm the one who's
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Speaker 1: the fault here, I'm to blame for everything, as painful
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Speaker 1: as it is. That's preferable to the first one. But
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Speaker 1: the first one you have no control, no recourse, no power.
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Speaker 1: So in some ways it might be better to believe
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Speaker 1: it's my fault. I'm a bad kid, and therefore if
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Speaker 1: I work harder, if i'm good, if I keep achieving,
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Speaker 1: I'll be loved and I'll be enough. Now that doesn't
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Speaker 1: usually work that way, but kids are trying to do
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Speaker 1: the best they can to get through tough times to
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Speaker 1: adversity and self blame protects them from this overwhelming feeling
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Speaker 1: of I will never have my parents' love, i will
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Speaker 1: never be loved, I'll never be able to trust anybody,
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Speaker 1: I'll never be able to have closeness, et cetera. There's
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Speaker 1: lots of judgments the kids here growing up about their emotions.
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Speaker 1: They hear a lot of times that you shouldn't have
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Speaker 1: angry feelings or sad feelings. People brush through grief really quickly,
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Speaker 1: and so their choice there is but I can hide
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Speaker 1: my feelings, I can stuff them and get the best
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Speaker 1: care I can, or I can be myself and express
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Speaker 1: all those emotions and then have people be upset with
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Speaker 1: me and people go away. And of course they're going
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Speaker 1: to pick the first one because they don't want to
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Speaker 1: feel unloved and abandoned. So their response is, if I'm good,
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Speaker 1: if I give them what they want, if I give
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Speaker 1: up what I want, I have a chance of receiving
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Speaker 1: the love that I want and need. And a lot
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Speaker 1: of times kids are getting messages all the time, but
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Speaker 1: certain parts of them are okay, other parts of them
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Speaker 1: are not. Sometimes it just happens with distracted parents. Any
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Speaker 1: of you listening to this podcast ever get distracted, I'm
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Speaker 1: sure you are. There's a lot of kids who are
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Speaker 1: growing up in homes where their parents spend a lot
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Speaker 1: of time at work, and when they're at home, they're
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Speaker 1: still working, or they're still on their devices. In all
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Speaker 1: kinds of ways, kids are also on their devices. So
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Speaker 1: people are sitting around on devices and not connecting, not
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Speaker 1: making eye contact, and I think a lot of times
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Speaker 1: they even though they may have a parent there, they're distracted,
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Speaker 1: They're not present, and that gives them a sense of
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Speaker 1: maybe I'm not worthy of my parents' attention, I'm not
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Speaker 1: worthy of my parents' love, and so I'm got to
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Speaker 1: work harder, be a better kid, et cetera. Everybody, all
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Speaker 1: of us want to have a sense of belonging. We
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Speaker 1: want to be connected, we want to have a sense
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Speaker 1: of autonomy. We all need a sense of control in
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Speaker 1: our life. We all like to have a sense of
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Speaker 1: purpose and meaning in our lives. And of course we
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Speaker 1: just want to be heard and seen and loved for
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Speaker 1: exactly who we are warts and all. So one of
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Speaker 1: the things I did this summer with the older girls,
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Speaker 1: this is the high school girls this is the first
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Speaker 1: or second day is we showed them a list of
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Speaker 1: limiting beliefs, and the things on that list I'll read
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Speaker 1: out to you right now, and I'll try and marror
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Speaker 1: to put those in my show notes as well. Here's
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Speaker 1: some limiting beliefs that sometimes kids will adopt because of
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Speaker 1: not getting what they need. I'm responsible for how other
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Speaker 1: people feel, and I must never disappoint anybody. I am
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Speaker 1: not worthy of attention. I have to work really hard
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Speaker 1: to earn it. I'm not enough in of itself. I'm
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Speaker 1: not important, I'm not lovable. I have to earn it.
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Speaker 1: Some kids even have a belief that says I was
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Speaker 1: a mistake. I've seen a lot of kids in this
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Speaker 1: day and age who have believed that says have I
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Speaker 1: done enough? Am I enough? Are worse? I'm never enough.
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Speaker 1: It's never good enough for my parents. I will never
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Speaker 1: be good enough for them. I've seen a lot of girls,
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Speaker 1: especially those in those sort of middle school awkward ages,
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Speaker 1: where they'll they'll start to develop a belief that says,
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Speaker 1: I'm socially awkward, I don't fit the mold. I'm ugly,
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Speaker 1: I'm not pretty enough or cool enough. I'm different in
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Speaker 1: a way that makes other people not want to be
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Speaker 1: with me and not like me. Kids who struggle in
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Speaker 1: school sometimes develop a belief that says I'm stupid and
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Speaker 1: not only am I stupid, but I'm not going to
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Speaker 1: have a good future because I have a hard time
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Speaker 1: taking tests. Here's a big one. I did a podcast
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Speaker 1: recently or I interviewed three high school girls. You may
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Speaker 1: have already heard it, but the pressures on them about
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Speaker 1: knowing their whole life when they're like sixteen, and a
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Speaker 1: lot of them develop a Belifa says, I'm behind my
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Speaker 1: peers and it's fast. Name. At that teen camp, los
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Speaker 1: my girls were talking about how they're behind, behind, behind,
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Speaker 1: and then we said, isn't it interesting that you all
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Speaker 1: think you're behind? And what do you think that could mean?
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Speaker 1: I e. Maybe none of us are behind. Maybe we're
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Speaker 1: right where we're supposed to be. Some kids who get
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Speaker 1: yelled at a lot, kids who get punished a lot,
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Speaker 1: they may develop Beliza says everything is my fault. I'm
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Speaker 1: a bad kid. But again, thede a sense but if
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Speaker 1: I work hard enough, if I become good, then I'll
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Speaker 1: be loved and then I'll be lovable. But even worse
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Speaker 1: with that scenario, they sometimes develop a belief that says,
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Speaker 1: I have to be perfect or I won't be loved.
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Speaker 1: I'm only loved. I'm only lovable when I'm doing things
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Speaker 1: really well. If I'm true to myself, I may lose
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Speaker 1: that love. So I have to be very, very good,
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Speaker 1: or people will go away. People won't be there for me,
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Speaker 1: people won't notice me. I'll be unloved. I've seen a
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Speaker 1: lot of sensitive kids who develop a belief that says,
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Speaker 1: I'm too sensitive. I shouldn't feel that way. I shouldn't
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Speaker 1: be that way. I won't be loved. If I'm angry,
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Speaker 1: I i'm if I'm not happy, if I'm grieving something,
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Speaker 1: only certain of my emotions are acceptable and okay to
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Speaker 1: feel and to share with people. Some kids develop a
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Speaker 1: belief that says, showing my emotions is a sign of weakness,
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Speaker 1: so I have to hide and contain my anger, my sadness,
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Speaker 1: my grief. Some kids decide, if I'm true to myself,
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Speaker 1: I may lose love, I may lose a connection, I
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Speaker 1: may lose a friend. So if the choices between hiding
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Speaker 1: my feelings even for myself and gain the basic care
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Speaker 1: that I need and deserve, and want I'd rather go without.
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick that first one every single time. I'd
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Speaker 1: rather go without and have connections. I see a lot
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Speaker 1: of kids in this day and age who are constantly
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Speaker 1: seeking external approval in order to feel needed and wanted
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Speaker 1: and admired. It becomes like a substitute for love. External approval,
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Speaker 1: meaning I get lots of love if I get a
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Speaker 1: top grades, if I get straight a's, if I make
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Speaker 1: the star hockey team or the soccer team, if I
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Speaker 1: score a goal, if our team wins the championship, if
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Speaker 1: I get accepted into a top college, if I get
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Speaker 1: a good grade my AP classes, all externals. They're not
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Speaker 1: wrong to get a good grade an AP exam, but
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Speaker 1: a lot of times kids feel like I need to
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Speaker 1: I need to do that otherwise it won't be seen, heard, validated,
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Speaker 1: I won't be valuable, I won't be loved. Also, some
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Speaker 1: kids grow up in environments where they aren't noticed very
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Speaker 1: much for lots of reasons, so they start to develop
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Speaker 1: a thought and a belief is said other people's needs
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Speaker 1: are more important than mine, or even worse, I shouldn't
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Speaker 1: even have needs. They may have a sibling with lots
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Speaker 1: of problems, and so they're kind of and this kid
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Speaker 1: is doing okay and so not pushed aside. But in
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Speaker 1: some ways they're pushed aside because their parents are so
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Speaker 1: basically putting out fires with another sibling or with each other,
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Speaker 1: and so therefore it's easy to see how they might
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Speaker 1: develop a belief that other people's needs are more important
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Speaker 1: than mine, and therefore other people are more important than me.
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Speaker 1: Some kids give up who they are at school when
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Speaker 1: they're trying to develop friends. They decide it's more important
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Speaker 1: to be liked than it is to be myself, because
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Speaker 1: if I set boundaries, if I speak my truth, I
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Speaker 1: may lose friends. So I will hold on to that
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Speaker 1: and I will fake it until I make it, until
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Speaker 1: I make friends. They may decide, especially females in my experience,
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Speaker 1: that being assertive and setting boundaries is being mean, so
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Speaker 1: they don't do it because they feel like if I
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Speaker 1: set a boundary, if I'm assertive and somebody interprets that
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Speaker 1: as being mean, I'll lose that friend. And losing that
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Speaker 1: friend is like a death, especially for girls in middle school.
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Speaker 1: In high school, some kids develop a belief that they
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Speaker 1: can't trust anybody. There's no one there to confide in.
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Speaker 1: There's no one who's been there for them at home
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Speaker 1: perhaps or at school. They may have lost their friend group.
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Speaker 1: They're alone, and they can decide sometimes that I can't
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Speaker 1: trust anybody, not just this mean group of girls, but
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Speaker 1: they extended to start to believe I can't trust anyone.
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Speaker 1: It's so sad night council girls, or I see girls
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Speaker 1: of camps who don't feel seen or heard. They don't
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Speaker 1: feel understood, they don't feel known, they don't feel validated,
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Speaker 1: and their belief is I am not worthy of other
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Speaker 1: people's time, attention and love. I had a girl at
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Speaker 1: one of my camps this summer who said, I've never
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Speaker 1: been anybody's first choice. I think how profound that is
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Speaker 1: for them. I've never been anybody's first choice. Therefore I'm
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Speaker 1: not good enough. I'm not enough, I'm not important, I'm
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Speaker 1: not lovable. It doesn't mean that, but that's what a
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Speaker 1: lot of girls will go to. I see a lot
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Speaker 1: of girls too, who say that their belief is that
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Speaker 1: they're stuck and they're never going to get out. I've
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Speaker 1: seen girls have with the belief that says I'll always
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Speaker 1: be last, I'll always be the last one, chosen. I'm
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Speaker 1: never anybody's first choice. I've heard that a lot over
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Speaker 1: the years. I'll be forgotten. My friends aren't gonna want
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Speaker 1: me to be around for long because my past friends
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Speaker 1: kicked me out, so it's just a matter of time.
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Speaker 1: I don't trust the people will love me and care
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Speaker 1: about me, and they'll go away. I've seen some kids
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Speaker 1: who grew up too fast because they their parents leaned
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Speaker 1: on them too much, share with them too much. And
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Speaker 1: these kids oftentimes develop a belief that says I am
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Speaker 1: responsible for how other people feel. So so many limiting
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Speaker 1: unhealthy beliefs. I have to be a good girl who
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Speaker 1: is perfect, nice, selfless. I follow the rules. I have
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Speaker 1: to always be happy, never argue, never make waves, wait
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Speaker 1: your turn, only have positive feelings. My friendship should be
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Speaker 1: conflict free with no disagreements. Oh, it's a big one
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Speaker 1: for girls. I must be passive and sweet before anything else.
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Speaker 1: Don't stand out, don't make waves, make everybody happy. Be
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Speaker 1: the kind of girl that all the parents and teachers
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Speaker 1: like and that other girls want to be. Because if
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Speaker 1: I'm not that way, I won't be loved. When I
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Speaker 1: work with girls. In my counseling practice, we did the
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Speaker 1: summer week, we had the girls. We had that list
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Speaker 1: of all those limiting beliefs, and then they added to
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Speaker 1: the list, and then we had them it was in
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Speaker 1: their journals, write down the one or two beliefs that
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Speaker 1: affect them the most negatively. And then we shared in
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Speaker 1: the big group and it was it was heartbreaking the
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Speaker 1: things that these girls have learned to believe about themselves.
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Speaker 1: And then we and then we decided the process process
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Speaker 1: it a bit, and we started to have them ask
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Speaker 1: themselves questions like where did this belief come from? When
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Speaker 1: did it start? How old was I? What happened, who
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Speaker 1: was there? What was said? And most girls can go
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Speaker 1: back to specific instances, experiences where some some adversity happened,
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Speaker 1: and they remember going inside their heads and saying those
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Speaker 1: worse to themselves, like nobody's there for me, I'm not lovable.
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Speaker 1: Those beliefs, also, those that they have in their heads,
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Speaker 1: they're trying to they're trying to fix something. In some ways,
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Speaker 1: it can be of at least a part time positive
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Speaker 1: because at least if I get good grades, I may
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Speaker 1: be noticed. It's not the kind of notice I want
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Speaker 1: them to have. I want them to be noticed. No,
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Speaker 1: matter what their report card says, but it's better than nothing.
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Speaker 1: So some kids, it helps them to not only get
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Speaker 1: in touch with where that come from, what happened, And
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Speaker 1: it makes sense why I may have decided that that's
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Speaker 1: a big switch. It makes sense why I may have
15:48
Speaker 1: decided when I sit back from it, when we talk
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Speaker 1: about it, express emotions about I can realize internally, very
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Speaker 1: deeply that it's not true. But I see how why
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Speaker 1: it felt true and why I developed that belief. That's
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Speaker 1: a huge switch for them to understand themselves instead of
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Speaker 1: judging themselves and being mad themselves and beating themselves up
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Speaker 1: to say I get it. Sometimes I have them to
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Speaker 1: go back in towns, back in time, and I'll have
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Speaker 1: them go back to a time when they experience that adversity,
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Speaker 1: that traumatic experience, and I'll ask them then I'll have
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Speaker 1: them journal with what you know now, would you say
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Speaker 1: to yourself today you didn't back then you said I'm
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Speaker 1: not lovable, there's something wrong with me all that, But
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Speaker 1: knowing what you know now, with hindsight, with more experience,
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Speaker 1: what we've been talking about in my counseling practice or camp, whatever,
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Speaker 1: what else could you say to yourself what's a different
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Speaker 1: belief you could develop based upon that adversity. I want
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Speaker 1: them to know that no matter how much time has
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Speaker 1: gone by, no matter how long they've had that belief,
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Speaker 1: they can always reform their thoughts. They can always reframe
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Speaker 1: those beliefs about their deservability, about their lovability, their self worth.
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Speaker 1: They can always switch and reframe beliefs about their bodies,
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Speaker 1: how to gain and receive love, Why their parents got divorced,
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Speaker 1: why their friend left them out. There's a different explanation
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Speaker 1: than there's something wrong with you. And they can start
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Speaker 1: to think about that, write it down. It can become
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Speaker 1: a mantra, that can become what they focus on instead
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Speaker 1: of the old beliefs. Also, they can start to notice
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Speaker 1: when in their body those beliefs start to churn up.
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Speaker 1: They may get a feeling in their stomach, their heart
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Speaker 1: might pound, they may start to feel shut down, They
17:53
Speaker 1: may lose their energy, they may start feeling depressed. So
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Speaker 1: they can start saying, what is this feeling in my
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Speaker 1: body for? What's the signal telling me? Why is it there?
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Speaker 1: It's a messenger And if I pay attention to it,
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Speaker 1: then I have some power over switching it. Then I
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Speaker 1: can reframe it with a healthier conclusion, a healthier decision,
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Speaker 1: a healthier belief, if you will. I had him ask
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Speaker 1: themselves questions like what else could it mean? What else
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Speaker 1: could it mean besides this garbage I've been saying to
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Speaker 1: myself all this time. I also elected for kids to
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Speaker 1: have a sense of where in their life do they
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Speaker 1: feel like they belong? They do feel loved, they do
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Speaker 1: feel special. I may have him closed their eyes and
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Speaker 1: do a visualization where they try and think, where do
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Speaker 1: they feel that. It may not be at home. It
18:50
Speaker 1: may not be at school for some kids who struggle
18:53
Speaker 1: in school and they may never have that sense of
18:55
Speaker 1: self worth there they could reframe, but there are places
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Speaker 1: in their life but they do feel like they belonged,
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Speaker 1: like they belong. So I'll ask him where is that,
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Speaker 1: who's there? What's there? Why do you think it's different there?
19:15
Speaker 1: I bet every one of you listening to this podcast
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Speaker 1: right at this moment, if you go back in your childhood,
19:20
Speaker 1: maybe at the time when you were struggling, I bet
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Speaker 1: all of you can think of somebody who may have
19:26
Speaker 1: stepped up, somebody who was there, somebody who saw through
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Speaker 1: all the bs and saw you for who you were
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Speaker 1: maybe a teacher, maybe a school counselor maybe a grandmother
19:39
Speaker 1: or a grandfather. Maybe you had a mentor of some kind,
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Speaker 1: a coach. A lot of kids will go think back
19:46
Speaker 1: to a coach you believed in them, Maybe one of
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Speaker 1: your friend's parents who took you under their wing. It
19:53
Speaker 1: could have been a counselor or a therapist like me,
19:56
Speaker 1: could have been a boss, an aunt and uncle. I
19:59
Speaker 1: remember when I I was, Oh, I guess I was
20:01
Speaker 1: in early middle high school, when things were a little
20:04
Speaker 1: bit rough for me at home. I would go to
20:06
Speaker 1: my aunt and uncle's house and I used to play
20:08
Speaker 1: piano a little bit, and my aunt was really good.
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Speaker 1: So the premise for going over there was we'd play
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Speaker 1: piano together. But it was really like just a respite
20:17
Speaker 1: from the storm, if you will, because she liked me,
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Speaker 1: my aunt Patsy, and we would play piano, she would
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Speaker 1: show me some things, we would talk, she'd make me
20:27
Speaker 1: something to eat, of course, because we're half Italian. I
20:33
Speaker 1: had a really important mentor in college. I struggled with
20:37
Speaker 1: some of the sciences in college. Some were okay, but
20:40
Speaker 1: like the chemistry of the physics, Oh, my brain did
20:43
Speaker 1: not like it, and so I was wondering what I
20:47
Speaker 1: wanted to do, and I would go into the pre
20:50
Speaker 1: med advisor's office, Brother John Dona, who went to a
20:53
Speaker 1: Catholic university, thinking I'm an idiot, I'm never gonna be
20:56
Speaker 1: able to do anything, just kind of discouraged because maybe
20:59
Speaker 1: I'd got a test, greade or something, and he had
21:02
Speaker 1: He had a way. I don't remember what he did
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Speaker 1: or said, if I remember walking out of Brother John's
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Speaker 1: office feeling like I got this. My confidence was back.
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Speaker 1: He just had a way of listening and empowering. I
21:17
Speaker 1: imagine all of you, I hope all of you had
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Speaker 1: someone like that. Coach, a teacher, an aunt and uncle,
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Speaker 1: a grandparent, someone who saw you, saw through all the bs,
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Speaker 1: who loved you for who you were, who loved you
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Speaker 1: for exactly who you were, didn't try and change you.
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Speaker 1: And those kind of people can make all the difference.
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Speaker 1: You don't need thirty of them, although that would be nice.
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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just one to give you that sense of
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Speaker 1: I see you, and you're way better than what you're
21:47
Speaker 1: saying to yourself. We had the girls through a lot
21:52
Speaker 1: of journaling this summer. We wanted them to write down
21:55
Speaker 1: all these thoughts and these feelings and the new beliefs
21:59
Speaker 1: and too, and to take those back home with them
22:01
Speaker 1: and start to say that to themselves instead of the
22:03
Speaker 1: garbage they've been saying that, you know, for their whole life.
22:08
Speaker 1: So the awareness is huge. What have you been saying
22:10
Speaker 1: to yourself? How's it been affecting you? Where did it
22:13
Speaker 1: come from? What happened? How could you reframe what happened
22:18
Speaker 1: in a different way. Your conclusion was, I can't trust anybody?
22:23
Speaker 1: Is that really true? Well no, not really. Now you
22:26
Speaker 1: can't trust that person or those people, perhaps, but you
22:30
Speaker 1: can reframe it too. I can't trust those people, and
22:33
Speaker 1: I need to start looking for healthier friends. So noticing it.
22:38
Speaker 1: It may be a body symptom, it maybe a thought symptom,
22:40
Speaker 1: and maybe an energy thing. Catch yourself, take a break,
22:44
Speaker 1: sit down, think, take a long walk, walk in the woods,
22:47
Speaker 1: grouten nature, pull out a journal, pull out some artwork,
22:51
Speaker 1: and just in some way express what's going on, and
22:54
Speaker 1: have a conversation with yourself and make some decisions about
23:00
Speaker 1: what is this going to mean? So I don't have
23:03
Speaker 1: to let it mean that I'm not good enough. I
23:06
Speaker 1: don't have to let it mean I'm never going to
23:07
Speaker 1: be anybody's first choice. I don't have to. I could,
23:10
Speaker 1: but I don't have to. It doesn't have to mean that.
23:14
Speaker 1: So think about create, write down, reframe so you have
23:18
Speaker 1: a better moral of the story. If you will, so
23:22
Speaker 1: you walk away not with those unhealthy beliefs that will
23:24
Speaker 1: weigh you down for the rest of your life until
23:27
Speaker 1: you switch them. Limiting beliefs. We've all got them, every
23:34
Speaker 1: one of you listening to this. I bet you if
23:36
Speaker 1: you came off of some day and we sat down
23:39
Speaker 1: and we talked about growing up and things, I bet
23:41
Speaker 1: every one of you has some of these. Sometimes we're
23:44
Speaker 1: not even aware of them, but there's places in our
23:48
Speaker 1: life where we keep getting stuck, and that's oftentimes the culprit.
23:53
Speaker 1: I'm going to do a follow up to this one.
23:55
Speaker 1: I do some exercises with kids of camp, and I
23:57
Speaker 1: also talk to them about something I call unrevealed commitments.
24:02
Speaker 1: They has to do with these beliefs. So I'll hold it.
24:04
Speaker 1: I'll leave it to that today because this is getting
24:07
Speaker 1: long enough. Help your kids become aware of any beliefs
24:10
Speaker 1: they may have. Ask some things like like I saw
24:13
Speaker 1: that happen unless you lost that friend group looks like
24:16
Speaker 1: they're not talking to you anymore, So what are you
24:18
Speaker 1: saying to yourself about that? And talk about beliefs, talk
24:23
Speaker 1: about limiting beliefs and how it would make sense why
24:25
Speaker 1: they might think that, but they have to be the
24:28
Speaker 1: ability to think something different that would be healthier and
24:31
Speaker 1: more positive and would be beneficial, because these limiting beliefs
24:36
Speaker 1: are obviously not beneficial. This is a good podcast to
24:41
Speaker 1: pass on to all your friends. I think maybe listen
24:43
Speaker 1: to it with your kids. That might prompt a discussion.
24:49
Speaker 1: I will try and remember to put that list of
24:51
Speaker 1: those limiting beliefs in the show notes so you can
24:54
Speaker 1: check on that. And as always, I'll be back here
24:57
Speaker 1: in a week with a brand new podcast. Thank you
25:00
Speaker 1: so much for stopping by and listening in, and thanks
25:03
Speaker 1: so much for always passing these on to your friends.
25:06
Speaker 1: I'll be back in a week with a brand new
25:07
Speaker 1: topic and a brand new podcast. Take care, and thanks
25:10
Speaker 1: so much for stopping by.