Latest / The You Project / #1611 Performance Intelligence - Andrew May

Transcript

#1611 Performance Intelligence - Andrew May · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I get our to him, I hope you're bloody terrific,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: welcome to another installment, and that you project. And when
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I say that, you project.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Kind of.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: So as you know, I go on other podcasts and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes I do an interview or have a conversation with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: someone else on their show. I really enjoy it. I
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: think it's high value conversation, and so with their permission,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: we kindly do what's called a co share, and that
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: happens both ways. Sometimes people are on my show, I
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: interview them, and then they take that episode back to
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: their show for want of a better term, and then
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: they share that with audience.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: We call that a co share.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: So recently, with all that in mind, recently I was
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: on Andrew May's podcast which is called Performance Intelligence, the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Performance Intelligence Podcast, and here's a bloody gun. He's a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: slightly better version of me. I'm being honest.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe I guess, I'll let you decide, But anyway, he's brilliant.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Loved him him, loved our conversation. And because of that, look,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: there will also be if you're very familiar with me
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and my stuff, there'll be a fair bit of familiarity
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: about the conversation. So feel free to have a bit
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of a squizze and see whether or not you want
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to keep going. You might not want to because there'll
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: be some repetition, but we do cover new ground. He's
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: a good interviewer. He also shares his own thoughts and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: ideas which are really worth listening to. But before you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: listen to it, I want to tell you that next weekend,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: as I'm recording this and recording this Sunday to be
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: up Monday, So next weekend being August the eighteenth, I'm
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: going to be in Bendigo doing my Understanding You workshop.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Understanding You it's brand new workshop, new content, a bit
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of old stuff but new stuff, bit of a synthesis
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: of both, bit of convergence of the old and newer,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: bit of fun, a bit of storytelling, a bit of science,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a bit of my PhD, a bit of research, a
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: little bit of interaction. It is called Understanding You. It's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: three our workshop. You can book in via my site
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Craigharpa dot net. Also, so that's next week Sunday the eighteenth,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: same workshop happening in melbs on September eighth. September eight
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: happening in Melbourne. Also go to my website if you
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: want to have a look, if you want a book,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: if you want to get involved. But without further ado,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Andrew may me you us it ready, steady go. I say,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: put up your hand if you've ever heard your voice
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: on audio recording.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And everybody goes, oh god, oh my god.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Then I go all right, hands down, Now put your
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: hand back up if you think you sound like shits,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And every hand goes up, and I go, well, the
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: bad news is that's how we hear you all the time.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then you say, well, what's more in
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: your life or your house? And people go, what a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: stupid question? Well, of course my life.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: What You spent a year designing your house, but you
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: won't spend a week designing your optimal life, you know,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: And again not trying to be critical, but just you know,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. None of us are going to accidentally
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: end up succeeding. Letting people see your metaphoric wartz is cool,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: you know. It's it's the space between persona and person persona.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: This is me, hey who and this is me?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: This is me just talking sharing, And I think there's
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: always going to be a little bit of something performative
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: because I'm a bit of a performer, like I love
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: fucking making people laugh, I love telling stories. But then
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: woven through that is vulnerability and a bit of pain
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and a bit of embarrassing stuff, and a real insight
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: into a real human experience that isn't all shiny and beautiful.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Optimized performance through adapting your physical, psychological, and emotional states.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Craig Harper is obsessed with human behavior, and over the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: past four decades he has worn multiple hats including exercise scientists,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: personal trainer, corporate speaker, university lecturer, AFL strength and conditioning coach,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: business owner and self proclaimed bogan. Harps his host of
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: the wildly successful podcast The You Project, and he is
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: a true jack of all trades speaker, author, podcast entrepreneur, scientist,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: and PhD candidate. His PhD is about how others experience you,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: diving into principles including meta cognition, theory of mind, meta perception,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and meta accuracy. And today we've tracked the big man
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: down to explore the practical applications of his research in
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  Speaker 2: our everyday lives. Craig Harper, Welcome to the podcast. Hi buddy,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: that was nice. You've done a little bit of writing
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and prep look at you like a grown up. It
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: wanted to do a different intro from the normal one
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: that everyone gets off your website. Hey, we had a
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: lovely conversation a couple of weeks ago, you me Tiff
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: on the You project, and that stimulated to have this
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: discussion where at the end we said, hey, let's get
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you on performance intelligence podcasts. But I love that chat
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: we had made around purpose, passion, and also talking about
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: all other things starting with pe potential. Yeah, me too.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I really loved it.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And I've people maybe who don't do what we do,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: who don't do podcasts and stuff, might not realize how
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: fun this is.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Like for me, a really busy day yesterday.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I got up this morning and I wasn't too I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: knew that I was talking to you today. At some
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: stage I looked at my diary and I went, oh, awesome,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: because that's for me. It's a fun hour. There's nothing
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: about this that's like work. And like I'm genuinely I mean,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sixty, like you said, four decades. I've been doing
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a version of this for ever, learning, growing, being the student,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: being the teacher, being the coach, you know, fucking up,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: getting up, falling down, winning, losing, failing, succeeding, all that
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: normal human stuff, and I'm just as excited as ever.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Like genuinely, I love human potential.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I love trying to understand who we are, how we are,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and why we are the way we are.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: So and it shows see you again, it shows in
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: your podcasting. And it's nice now me being the podcast
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and interviewing you. The talent rough frame, because I know
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: you're you say that your free range, loose, unscripted, I
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: call bullshit. You're much more than the former fat kid
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: from Mawi. I've said this to you, and you get
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a little smile, the little lips light up. You know
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: where I'm going. You've done forty years of research, mate,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: so you've done a bit of prep. So a rough frame.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I'm really curious why did you choose the topic of
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: how other people experience you? I want to pull on
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that thread. Is there a story or stories that lead
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: to that. I've never heard you talk about that, so
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: full disclosure. When I started my PhD, I started looking
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: at motivation. So what often happens with a PhD, especially
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: in psych, is that people will start and then a
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: month or two or three or four in they're like
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: this is this is going to be a big problem,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: like a bigger than big problem, or there's you know,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: this is there's too much already done. Or you come
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: to a realization and you take a slight left turn,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: or you do a one ad I did a one eighty.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So I was looking at motivation, the role of motivation
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: in creating you know, change, and you know all that
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: kind of general stuff. But there's just a huge amount
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of divergence and ambiguity around the concept of motivation in psychology,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and it was probably going to be really messy, and
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: so not that long in probably three months in I
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: changed tact And so, as you said in the intro,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at a thing called colloquially we would call
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: it the you experience, which is you the listener, you
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: who are listening, your ability to understand what it is
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: like for other people to be around you, which we
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: call metaperception, and then how good you are at that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: we call that meta accuracy. So the genesis for that
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: was lots and lots of conversations with leaders and bosses.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And managers and coaches who really had no idea what
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: it was like for their tribe, their team, their group,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: to be around them, and I thought that was fascinating.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And their understanding of themselves for the group was not
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the groups I'm understanding. There was a lot of divergence, right,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of separation in the perspectives. And
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the bottom line was, you know that there were some
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  Speaker 1: bosses who were in some ways really good, great business skills, knowledge,
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  Speaker 1: you know, like high IQ, but at the same time
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  Speaker 1: they couldn't build rapport, connection, trust, respect because they really
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: didn't know how the group saw them or perceived or
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: processed them. And maybe even more importantly, they didn't seem
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to care. And I was always curious about that. Where
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I would go into I would get called in to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: do some work with a company, and you know, the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: kind of the directive was, oh, that's you know, the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: culture is not great, communications not great. It's just not
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: it's not a great energy or environment to be and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: could you come and kind of do your thing. So
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I would talk to a few people, and then I
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: would often talk to the boss and I'm like, I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: found the problem that's up in this office. It's this
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: office up here in the corner. Here's the problem that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: bell end of the corner. Oh, it's you, there's the problem.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Brian or Sally up in the corner office, right, so,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: and that you know, just that, and nobody's trying to
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: be you know, difficult, that's nobody's goal. And yeah, so
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  Speaker 2: that just opened the door for me. Mate. I didn't
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: even know what.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: It was called, but I used to say to these people,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: what do you think it's like being around you? And honestly,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: most of them are never deeply thought about it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or some's in total disconnect. It's frickin awesome because
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I'm the CEO c sweet, so everyone must have a
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: great time when they spend time with me. You go, actually, mate,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you're a bit of a wanker, do you know that?
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: How would you frame that? Is your research helping you
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: not just understand it, but how to communicate that to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Brian in the corner office, who's a bit of a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: nolburn disconnect between everyone else. Look, I mean the responses
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: range from oh, fucking hell, that's interesting, I've never really
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: thought about it, and then there's a bit of for
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: some of them, there's a bit of a light bulb
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and a moment of self awareness and it's really the
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: beginning of something and like you said, almost at the
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: opposite end of the scale is well, I don't really care.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not here to make friends. You know, they're here,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: they're paid to do a job. I'm here to tell
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: them what to do, and it's kind of that. And
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, yes and no, but you're not employing robots.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: You're employing humans with emotions and feelings and you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: beliefs and values and expectations and a need to be
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: respected and valued and all of those things. And so
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: the responses were really varied. But these days, like we
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: were chatting before we pressed the go button. Yesda.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I did two gigs with two different groups, two corporate groups,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and I talk about this a bit as part of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: my presentations, depending on the focus of the presentation. Of course,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: one of those was a one hour keynote. One was
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: a two hour workshop. But most people are like, oh wow,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that's actually that's actually really interesting. And the way that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I open the door and get people to have a
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: little bit of an insight is I say, put up
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: your hand if you've ever heard your.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Voice on audio recording, and everybody goes, oh god, oh
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: my god, and I go all.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Right, hand down, now, put your hand back up if
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you think you sound like shit, and every hand goes up,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and I go, well, the bad news is that's how
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: we hear you all the time.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: And it just gives people a little bit of an analogy,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a you know, it's like, oh really,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I go, Yeah, that's that's the version or that's the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: audible version of you that we get. So that's kind
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of a sample or an example for you of you know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the distance between your version and our version of you. Yeah.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So it's just it's a tipping off point, and it's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I think also point out that it's not something to
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: be worried about, but rather curious about. Like we're not
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: talking about, oh my god, do they like me. We're
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: not talking about insecurity or fear or self loathing. We're
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: talking about if I can understand their version of me,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: then perhaps I can build rapport on connection and.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: We can work better together.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: We can be a better team, we can resolve conflict quicker,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: we can create better, we can solve problems better, you know.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: So it's it's really about trying to create positive interpersonal
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and professional outcomes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Before we jump into the research and some of your
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: findings because I know you've got this self awareness pyramid,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: which I love. I heard you in the Irish Lad
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Paul Taylor. It's hard to have sort of audio subscriptions,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: isn't When you're talking to the Irish Lad. He is
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I've known him for a while, but yeah he does,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and especially when he talks fast. Yeah, man, good man, Pete.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: But a question I've got for you. You've got a
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: story of you've got a recollection of where you have
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: shown up differently, and then you've got feedback down the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: track and you went, oh shit, really is that what
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: they thought? And I'll give you one. I've had to
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: give you some time to think of. One. Sold a
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: previous business to KPMG when in there as a partner,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: which means foreigner. When you're a lateral higher, I had
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: no idea about risk compliance, stakeholder engagement. And there's five
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: hundred other partners that all have their hands on the
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: ship as well. And I had an amazing coach who
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: work with me, and she said, Andrew, you're used to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: being a fighter pilot and everyone is around you putting
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the fuel in right, go off, the ship out and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: the sea. You told when to take off, when to
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: land and everyone's doing everything for you. Now, Jill said,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you're flying at a three eighty and there's five hundred
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: other people you need to share the controls with. And
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: you come across as being too fast paced, sometimes not listening,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: do your own thing, and a little bit selfish. And
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I went fuck Jesus because I wouldn't have thought I
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: was selfish. I wouldn't have thought that I was too fast.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: But my skill set Harps had been so trained, and
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: you've worked on running a small business and being a
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: keynote speaker. Were you're talking at not talking too The
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: perception I had on other people's experience with me wasn't
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: exactly the same. And then the team I had as well,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: we did a proper three sixty, not a three sixty
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: when you own it and hey, what do you think
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: of me? We'll go out to lunch after, but a
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: proper independent three sixty. I've got similar feedback that people
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: said they liked me, they saw the passion, but I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: was too pushy, and that it was very much we're
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: doing it this way, jump on or jump off. Also,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that had been strengthened by sport. You've worked in sport.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: You don't actually coach in sport. You tell because you've
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: got a whole bunch of men and women to make
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the team and they're highly competitive. So that was a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: slab for me. It was like a big wet fish
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: across the face harps where it's like, God, I think
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I can communicate, and I pride myself on being caring
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: and collegiate, but I'm coming across to some people as
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: a bit of a knob shit and it hurt. The
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: feedback hurt.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I can understand that. But if it's true that it's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: better that you know it, that I know it, that
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: we know it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Also, your intention, albeit good, your intention will not always
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: be someone else's experience true. Right, So my intention might be, hey, mate,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I want to give you know, we finished this, we
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: wrap it up, and I want to say, hey, you're
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: doing a great job, but can I just share a
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: couple of thoughts with you?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Right? And then all of a sudden you're like, fuck
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: your thoughts, I don't want your thoughts. Fuck you what
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: now I might and by the way, I'm not going
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to do that. I wouldn't even think of it because
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: you do a great job. But in this hypothetical. My
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: intentions are good.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I want to help you build a better business and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: brand and podcasts and give all that. Right, So my
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: intention in this hypothetical might be good, but your experience
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: might be why is he criticizing me? Why is he
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So positive intention, negative experience happens all
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the time. So that's the first problem that's happening constantly
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: in business and various organizations. The second problem is that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the boss or the leader or the coach doesn't know
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that it's happening because they just assume that other people
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: think like them. There's this I don't know if we
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: spoke about it last week, but there's a thing in
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: psychology called false consensus effect.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Did we speak about that? No, we didn't, so I've
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: heard you talk about it. Jot that down.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: So that just means that we, without thinking about it,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: we kind of assume that people think like us. So
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: false consensus effect, right, And the truth is that the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: only person in the world who thinks like Craig Harper
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: all the time is Craig Harper. And so I would
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: be silly to assume that what means ABC for me
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: means ABC for Andrew and the listeners, And so I
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: am constantly at least aware of this idea of how
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: do I share this thought, this idea, this message in
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a way that connects optimally with Andrew or with Andrew's audience.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: How do I do that? What does that look like?
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Because I'm not talking to me, And back to that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: thing of you know, I can't be objective about me
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: because I am me, so in a way, I care
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: more about what you think of my speaking skills than
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: what I think because you're more representative of the audience
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: than I.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Am, because you're an outsider looking in. I'm it. So
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: this idea of and some of the things that we
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: need to own up to and think about we don't
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: like owning up to and thinking about because it means,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I've got a like you. Oh well, maybe
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I am selfish or maybe I am or That was
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the big one for me, and it was part of
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: my evolution from being x in external exogenous other people
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: giving feedback, which is part self esteem or low self
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: esteem part again, just you get so used to the
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: external validation and you don't maybe sit and reflect what
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: does it mean to me? It was a huge pivotal
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: point and just piecing it together as I'm talking to you.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Not long after that, about a year eighteen months, I
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: did a deep dive on purpose because it started to
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: open that Oh, okay, what is this about? How do
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I get that nice blend between X? And you wouldn't
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: have done the two gigs yesterday, You wouldn't have one
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: of Australia is in podcast if you didn't have people
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: connecting with your message, following and liking. So you do
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: need that, but you got to marry that. And I
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: think that's that authenticity. I see, you've got you rock up,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: You're comfortable who you are. Hey, take it or leave it,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: this is me. But you've got that nice dance between
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: the two. So it's inner and there's a real drive
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: and purpose and connection. But you're connecting with others. So
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: back to that question. Have you had an experience like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: me where you thought you were showing up in one
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: way and you got feedback that was really disconnected to
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: how you thought you were connecting or showing up. Yeah,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: many times.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: But the one that is the standout for me, which
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: was the stepping off point for having this other awareness,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: was when I back in the day, I used to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: lecture what in Victoria called vic FIT courses, so teaching
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: CIRT threeand cert for would be personal trainers and gym instructors.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And one of the reasonably consistent bits of feedback that
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: came in with the feedback ORMs that all their students
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: would fill out is that, you know, mostly Craig's not terrible.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: We like him, he's a bit funny, he's done.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: But probably about one in ten said something like he's intimidating.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, who fucking said that? What are their names?
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Where are they give me their addresses? You know, you
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: stand up the front of the class next time. All right,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: some of you fucking bastards have said I'm intimidating, stand up,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: stand up right now, get up here, And I'm like,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know what anyone means. But it was, of course,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: of course it was.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: They had every right to say that, and clearly for
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a percentage of the people I was.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And just for context for people listening to this, and
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: you can follow this on YouTube now as well, the
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Performance Intelligence podcast. So I did there, mate, just got
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: a nice little YouTube lug. But when I first met you, gosh,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, you were seriously jacked. So you
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: were you were the gym Jim junkie, right. You owned
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Australia's biggest I think Southern Hemisphere is biggest personal training studio.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So you were the weights guy like you. You had
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: biceps on biceps, So I'm imagining back then you'd have
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: your happy pants, you weightlifted pants. You'd have your boots
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: or you know, shoes are tight T shirt that's probably
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of sizes too short because you got the
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: pecks and got the delts, so physically you would have
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: been quite intimidating. Yeah, I was. I probably was. I
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: was probably well put in context on five five ten
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: ish and I'm now I'm about eighty five kilos. Then
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I was probably about one hundred and five and maybe
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: leaner than I am now, so muscles on my eyelids
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: and all of that, and probably mildly happy with myself
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: if I'm being self aware and all of that. But
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't, I mean, it wasn't my intention, Like nothing
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: in me had that as a goal to be intimidating.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But I mean the bottom line was that I was
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to some people, and so I had to I had
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to think about that. I had to lean into that
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and try to understand what I was doing and how
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I was being that created that impact or.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Effect for some. And of course you can't control everyone's response.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: But you know that was good for me because and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: since then, I've kind of like, I realize that I am,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: even forty years later, I'm a work in progress. I'm
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I get trapped an ego, I'm insecure at times, I
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: have imposter syndrome at times, still all of those normal
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: human things. But I think what is you know, what
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: is good is somebody in your position who you are
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: a leader, you have followers, you have you.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Stand in front of groups. So do I all of this?
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: But I think when you genuinely, not disingenuously, but when
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: you genuinely talk about your own bullshit and your own
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: fuck ups, and your own idiosyncrasies, and your own insecurity
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and your own fear, while also sharing some strategies and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: stories and techniques that might help people think.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Do be better.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: People value that more and trust you more because you're
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: not some fucking guru pontificating from a stage who's living
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: this flawless perfect existence, in this perfect marriage with these
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: perfect fucking genetics. You know, there's some I can't start.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: That's and so for me, like there's a lot of
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: similar models to this, but I put people into kind
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of all our different cells into five categories. The first
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: is public you. These are self explanatory, then personal you,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: then private you, then secret you, then future you the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you that you want to be so personal public you
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: is the one that everyone sees. There's no real filter.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: You know, you're not you kind of You'll let that
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: version of you connect with the world, and the world
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: see that version of you. Then there's kind of personal you,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: which is more you know, family friends, maybe five to
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: ten people get personal you.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And then private you might be your.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Partner or your mum, or your sister or somebody one
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: or two maybe that are very close and pretty much
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: know everything. Then secret you that's just you. That's the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: shit that you're telling no one, the feelings that you're
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: sharing that insecurity that you. And then future you is
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: or potential you is who I might want to be
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and who I might want to become. And I try
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: as much as possible to share private me with the world,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: like the stuff that most people wouldn't the stuff that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I'm genuinely scared of. The stuff that I think I
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: might do well or poorly, my own insecurity, my own
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, the space between my values and my behavior.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Am I a great role model?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: No?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Should you be like me? No?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: But I'll you know, I try to be less performative
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: than I used to be. You know, I know that,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: see you, And I know this right as a speaker,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and people who don't do this job might not think
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: about this, But as a speaker, I know that I've
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: got pretty good skills. I've got lots of miles on
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the clock, a pretty good situational and social and public
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: awareness in that context, and I know that I can
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: walk out on a stage do my job forty five minutes,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: sixty minutes, bibbity bobbedy boo skills, blah blah blah. Tell
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the stories, you know, share the messages. Thanks very much.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I'm Craig Harper. You're all fucking awesome. Yeah, there's that,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and that ain't terrible, but for me, that's more choreograph,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: scripted and performative. But the stuff that blows me away
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and people away, and it's not about Craig Harper, but
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: is when you get beyond that show and you start
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to create a level of emotional, psychological, sociological, maybe even
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: who knows, spiritual connection that's got nothing to do with
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: any performance or script or plan. You're just raw, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you're just in the moment. And you know, I don't
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: not that they're bad, but I don't use videos or
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: slides or I just get up and see where we go.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's it's fucking amazing. And
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: as you and I have said before, the amazing's got
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. I'm just a conduit to
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the amazing. And when that sounds like bullshit and people go, eh,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: but there's stuff that's happened in my own workshops and
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: seminars that I can't even explain, but something happens.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And for context, you said this before we went on.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: You're still banging out about one hundred presentations a year,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: so you're not like one of those people that does
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: two keynotes and has all over their website International Keynotes
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: speaker as seen on the stage back in nineteen eighty
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: four when we both down. So you're doing a lot up.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Couple of things. One is it's this awareness when you
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: move from denial and say that river floating in Egypt.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: So I was in denial about some of those habits
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and behaviors often linked to not low self esteem, but
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: absolutely not confidence where you can be there in your
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: own skin. So that was a big shift for me.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: And I can hear that's happened with you from the
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: VIC fit and other examples. But when I listen to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: you and I catch up with you, I've seen you
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: present a few times as well. You're really authentic. There
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: would be a bunch of people here listening who are
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: shit scared going I can't let people know the private me. God,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not going there, let alone the personal mate, because
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I've been taught my leaders said, all right, young fella,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: young lady, when you turn up, leave your shoes and
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: your personality at the door. And when you're working for
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: this bank, consulting firm, telco, insert government organization, you've got
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to be the job description of the role. We don't
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: want your personal shit. Now that's changed a lot, thank goodness.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: But it's authentic authenticity rather than the hey, now, let
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: me be authentic with you. I don't think i've shared
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this story with you. A guy that I used to
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: work with, lovely guy. It leads a big and he said, Mazie,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: can you come and watch me speak. I'm speaking at
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: our open forum town hall, and I want you to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: help me because you do good speaking and stuff. So
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I'm watching him and he started a bit nervous, a
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: bit dry, and then he opened his arms and I
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: think he'd listened to Brene Brown. He said, now, let
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: me be authentic with you, and I felt like saying, now,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: let me kick you in the balls. God, don't say
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: to people let me be authentic. You be authentic. You
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: do authentic. I see you do that beautifully. I see
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: some people now they do it, and I feel like
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I need a shower.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Well, if it's choreographed, there's not fucking authentic. So it's like,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: you know, fake authenticity. And I think letting people see
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: your your metaphoric.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Wartz is cool. You know.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: It's the space between persona and person you know, persona,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: this is me, hey who? And this is me this
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is me just talking sharing, And I think, look, if
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: we're well, if I'm honest, there's always going to be
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a little bit of something performative because I'm a bit
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of a performer, Like I love fucking making people laugh.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I love telling stories. I love manipulating the crowd in
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: a good way, you know.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: But then woven through that is vulnerability and a bit
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: of pain and a bit of embarrassing stuff and a
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: real insight into a real human experience that isn't always
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: shiny and beautiful. But I think, you know, that's the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: thing of trying to create this synergy and symphony of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: messages and entertainment and connection. Because the other thing, too
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: is like what people don't think about.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: You could get on stage, or I could get on stage,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and we could share what is the most mind blowing
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: information of all time, with no nuance, with no story,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: with no peaks and troughs, with no humor, with no
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and not only does it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Not have a good impact, it has a terrible impact
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in you. And I never get any more work. You've
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: gotta have a bit of Joe's hands, halps jazz hands.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: But if you've got too much Ja's hands, you don't
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: get booked to do the jazz. It's like Goldilocks and
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the Three Bears. Right, this porridge is just right, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: that's it. That's a skill to adapt that to an
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: audience as well. Well.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: It's a real challenge because when you start, as you know,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: when you start, like firstly, when I started.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I was fucking terrible. It's so bad.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: But you can't get good at what you're not doing right.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You can't get better at the thing that you won't do,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and you can't get better at the thing that you
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: won't acknowledge. Hey, Craig, you're intimidating.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not. Fuck off? Who fucking said right? So
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I can't get better at being less intimidating, or at
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: least trying to, you know, unless I first go Okay, cool,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: thank you. I'm aware now, so I need to lean
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: into that.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: But you know, this whole I feel I'd probably sound
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: old when I say this, but I feel like a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: lot of people are very impatient now. It's almost like
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: they want ten years worth of experience in a year.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: We want a hack like download it, mate, Can you
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: give me the Craig Harper the U Project hack? What
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: do you mean You've been spending forty years trial tribulation, triumph,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: stuff up, setbacks and you've got this experience, But can
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: you give that to me in a download? No, you
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: can't get in a download. That's a huge problem I
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: see with my kids now, you and I, little Craig,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: little Andrew used to go the library for people listening.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: There's this thing that used to have in councils where
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: you'd have books withz They used to have real books
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: where you go there and you'd actually you'd put your
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: name and you'd wait for a book. But at Glennys
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: where I grew up, James Collin, great kid, James, real nerd,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: but he was always the first to get the book.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So harps. I'd have to wait two weeks to do
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: my geography assignment. Can you imagine saying that to a kid, Now,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: wait two weeks until you go get the books? They go, No,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I was just downloaded off the internet. So that's part societal. Yeah.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I do some coaching with a guy, a young guy
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: called Brad who's a jiu jitsu black belt, And arguably
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: jiu jitsu is the hardest martial art in the world
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to get a black belt, and it takes if you're
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: consistent and you start today and you've got some talent,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: it'll take you about ten years. Right, So it's not
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: one of these martial arts where you start on Monday
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and by Wednesday week you're a black belt, right, And
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I was talking to him about I said to him,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: if I started now, when would I get my black belt?
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: If I went three four days a week and I'm
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: sixty You said, well, you might never get it.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Let's say that. I'm like, okay, thank you.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: And then he said, but oh, probably, you know, if
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: your body didn't fall apart ten to fifteen years.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, really, It's like yeah, yeah.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing, and that's why they're held in
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: really high regard. He's a second or third dan black belt.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: They've earned it. It took him, and he's good at it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: It took him a decade to get his black belt, right,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: and he's good. He's a natural. But this is the thing,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: is that whatever we do, whatever we're doing for the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: first time, we're a white belt, and the journey of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: getting you know, metaphorically strangled and choked and tapped and
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: kicked in the dick and punched in the face and
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: all of those things.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: You know, this is the journey.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And also not only is that the journey, that's the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: practical reality of becoming good or mastery or high performance
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: or human optimization or whatever you want to call it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But not only is the outcome then worth it, it's
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the journey that is the real value because the journey
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: changes you. You know the thing that we the thing that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: we want in our culture, which is we want success.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Everybody.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be a failure. Of course, success means
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: different things to different people, and nobody wants to be
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: a dud. Nobody wants to be unhealthy, nobody wants to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: be broke, nobody wants to be unpopular, nobody wants to fail.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: But also nobody wants to be uncomfortable. Well, guess what
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: if you're not at least prepared to get uncomfortable on
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a semi regular basis that growth, that learning, that adaptation,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that improvement, that high performance, it's unlikely.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And thank goodness, we've got research now around post traumatic growth.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Because everyone was saying, oh, stress will break you, but
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of people that go through high
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: levels of stress, even trauma, and they grow and they flourish.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: So we're seeing more research come out of that from
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: especially Martin Seligman started that with the US military. Hey
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: on the research frame because we could talk stories and experience,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: but there's a real rigor to what you do, which
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I love as well. So you can tell us a
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: little bit about the self awareness pyramid, and so is
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: that something you've come up with or have you adapted
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Maslow Blooms taxonomy. I'm thinking of a whole bunch of
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: other frameworks.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Look, I could make that. There could be lots of
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: different layers to that. I just I developed that. But
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: obviously all of those terms are not my terms. It's
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: just a way like I kind of developed this simple
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: pyramid to get people to understand, you know, my stuff
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: quite easily. I've got a really good little graphic that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I will send you that you might want to use that.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Will put them in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway, So in this pyramid, at the bottom of the pyramids,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: so there's four levels. The bottom of the pyramid is
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: what's called metacognition, which is thinking about thinking. And you know,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the truth is that most people don't think about how
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: they think very often, if at all. They just think
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and they believe their thoughts and those thoughts become beliefs.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: And also the idea of thinking about the origin of
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the way that my mind works, like why do I
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: think and distill information? And see the world the way
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that I do. What is the lens or what is
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: the window through which I view and understand and process
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the world? What are the things that create my windows?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: So like blease, values, ideas, experiences, bias, faith, prejudice, like
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: all of those things which we all have to some extent,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: that kind of forms the window through which I view
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: the world. So if I'm a you know, I'm a Vegan,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to look at the world a certain way.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: If I'm a Catholic, so too, if I'm a black
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: belt in jiu jitsu and some guys coming up to me,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I might view that quite differently to if I'd never
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: done any kind of self defense. And so, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I'm an only child who grew up in a Catholic family.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I was a morbidly obese child, I went to only
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Catholic schools. I grew up in rural Victorious. So all
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: of these things are variables that shape or inform my thinking.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: So that one of the biggest challenges for us in
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: this journey towards what we might call greater self awareness
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: or even consciousness, is to become aware of our lack
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: of awareness. It's like I become more conscious when I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: read recognize my lack of consciousness, and by that I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: mean the autopilotness of our existence.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Which is the way we live now. We just wake
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: up and we grab the weapon of mass distraction and
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: we scroll and we go to meeting after meeting. It
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: is groundhog Day. It's such a good metaphor Pensacola fild.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: You just wake up and before you realize you wake up.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I've heard you say five years later. It's not five
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: for a lot of people, it's ten, twenty thirty. Jesus.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I've got to the end of my career and my
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: kids are now having kids. I'm not really connected with
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: them because I've just been on this conveyor belt for
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: years and years. And then it often takes a crisis,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: a relationship breakdown, losing a job, a big life event,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: and that can sometimes shift. But people don't have enough pain,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: so they're comfortably uncomfortable. It's like the just the tapping
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: of a wall. You tap, tap, tap, tap. The wall
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't crumble thirty years later, it's one tap and the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: whole jipprop comes tumbling down. That self awareness and just
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: flying through life on autopilot.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: So let's summarize that into four or five words. Don't
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: wait for the catastrophe. I mean, this is what we do.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: We wait till shit breaks and then we go, oh
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I should get in shape. Oh I should be nicer
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: to my wife. Oh I should or whatever it is.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's about being proactive, you know, not reactive,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and leaning into that a little bit. So that's understanding that,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: you know, we've all been programmed and conditioned and recognizing
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: where my programming, my cognitive, behavioral, emotional psychological programming ends
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and where me, Craig Harper, the clean slate, where do
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I start? Who am I beyond that? Like, beyond my
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: programming conditioning beliefs and very kind of set ideas and
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: ideals and ideology, like who am I beyond that? For me,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: that's a really curious kind of exploration.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And thoughts are not facts. That's something I find people
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: really connect with. And you go, hey, you think the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: way you think, let's talk about thinking about the way
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: you think. And you get some really weird looks metacognition,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: what's that shit? I just think, Champ, thoughts are not facts.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: And on your mobile phone, I've asked Wizard this and
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: he's on Android, so he said Android had just better.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So there's no answer to this story. But if you're
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: an iPhone, you regularly have to do an iOS upgrade.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And the people harps going through decades on autopilot, they
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: just wake up their gray They're a monochrome version of gray,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: gray clothes, gray car, gray skin, gray hair, if they've
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: got any gray life, because there's no thinking about how
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: can I challenge this or what can I upgrade? So
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I love that whole notion of the regular iOS upgrade.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: And you've heard me bang on about this. Do you
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: want your body to be stronger, fitter, fast, and more flexible,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: You've got to do reps and sets. It's exactly the
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: same with your thinking. Get out of that laziness or
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: that comfort zone.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's really difficult at times to be objective
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: about the thing you're in the middle of, if not impossible,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: to be objective about the thing that you're in the
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: middle of. And what we're all in the middle of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: is our own life, right, and that is why it
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: is easy to close your eyes and open them again.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And it's a year later and you're essentially you've blinked
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: and That's why it's very easy to keep doing things
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: that don't really work because they're habitual, they're programmed. And
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: so this is not an easy idea. This is an
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: idea though it's not an easy do. But it's an
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: easy idea. It's just a construct. But the idea is
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: to find a way to be able to do an
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: inventory or a stock take on your own existence. And
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: so the question that I ask people, individuals and audiences
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: all the time is what's not working? Like, what's the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: thing that you're doing that doesn't work. What's the thing
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that you're doing with your body that doesn't work. What's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: the thing that you're doing with your kids you're parenting
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: your relationships that doesn't work. What's the thing that you
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: do with money that's fun looking stupid, but you still
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: keep doing it? Like on Planet you, you are always
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: getting data, You're always getting information. Now, the challenge in
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the middle of the mayhem and the chaos that is
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the continuity and the never endingness of our existence, the
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: challenge is to be able to hit the metaphoric pause
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: button and say, okay, if I continue on my current
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: trajectory of habits and thinking, beliefs and behaviors and outcomes.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: If I continue on this trajectory, will my life be
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: better or worse than a year, two or five? The
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: answer for many of us is worse. Okay, that's not
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: self loathing, that's awareness. Now what to do with the awareness? Okay,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: easier said than done. But how do I shift this?
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: How do I get out of this groove, this pattern,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: this behavior that is more self sabotaged than self serve?
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: How do I do that?
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, we think about building a business,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: our best business or best brand, or our best bank balance.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: You know, even we think about how would we build
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: a house if we're starting from scratch. You know, you
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: would spend a year designing and developing and finding the
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: land and colors and fittings and blah blah blah. But
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: when it comes to building our best.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: It's just just on that. You're so right, graphic simulation.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: So you've got all these different designs. What do you
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: think we'll go to a different show. We'll go to
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the trade warehouses. People spend hours, days, weeks, months planning
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: rebuild of the house which they might be in for
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: ten years. Yeah, exactly.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: And then you say, well, what's more important your life
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: or your house, and people go, what a stupid question? Well,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: of course my life, what house set up question? You
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: spent a year designing your house, but you won't spend
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: a week designing your optimal life, you know. And again
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: not trying to be critical, but just you know, here's
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the thing. None of us are going to accidentally end
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: up succeeding. It's so easy to live an unconscious groundhog
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: day existence. And it takes courage, and it takes effort
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and energy and probably a bit of discipline, self control
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and discomfort, which are not very sexy things in twenty
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: twenty four. But you know, it's just that's just what's required,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: you know. And I always say I can tell you
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: what you want to hear all the truth to an audience.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: And I go, what do you want? They're like, oh,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I guess the truth. That's going to hurt all right.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: So metacognition is the base they metacognition yep. Theory of
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: mind is essentially our ability to understand or try to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: understand or be curious about how other people think, which
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: you're not going to get my assumption, unless you understand
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: yourself first, then you can understand others so hence the framework.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: And also being able to in real time realize that
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Andrew and I are in the same conversation but not
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the same experience. And then with that in mind, what
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: is Andrew's experience right now? What is Andrew's version of me?
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: What is Andrew's version of our story about this conversation,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: this moment in time? What is his story about this interaction?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: And these are questions that we ask not because we
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: necessarily have to agree with the other person or endorse
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the other person, or let's be honest, even like the
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: other person, because in some situations we're going to work
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: with people we don't really want to. That doesn't make
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: us terrible, it makes us human. But the point is
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: not to align or connect or endorse or agree, but
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: rather to understand, you know, seek first to understand and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: then to be understood. So me trying to understand. And
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I've worked with many people that are so not like me,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: not better or worse, just different. But everything from you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: the military and Victoria police, to blokes in prison, to addicts,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: to alcoholics, to the general public to people with all
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: kinds of abilities and disabilities. And in the middle of that,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand them so I can work
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: with them or help them or support them.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So that's theory of mind I'm going deep at the
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: moment on mindfulness. And I used to think mindfulness was
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: a crock of shit. I think because I'd watched the
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: wrong videos where you have this yahwei profit in the
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: modern age, walking in romes and just just talking absolute bullshit,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: making it sound like this all encompassing just every part
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of your life. But when you look at the definition
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: of mindfulness, you go back to the Japanese samurais two
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and a half thousand years ago. Similar time, Yogis were
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: starting to come up with similar principles. It's about being
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: present in the moment without judgment. So if you're on
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: your mobile phone scrolling all the time, if you're on
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: autopilot through the decades, there is no mindfulness. It's the opposite.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: It's mindlessness, and it's often driven by distraction. So I'm
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: really curious, have you looked at that thread of mindfulness,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: because as you're saying a lot of that about both
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: my self awareness of that metacognition and then other people
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: just being able to drop into that mindful state, being
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: present in the moment without judgment. Where does the mindfulness
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: research sit in with this? Yeah?
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: So for me, mindfulness is it's sometimes almost better called
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: mindlessness so or mind emptiness, like because in a way
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: you're trying to get out of your mind. You're trying
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to get out of thought in a way, you know,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and to be the kind of the mind fuck no
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: pun intended, but is because we're trying to understand the
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: mind using the mind as the tool that we're trying
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: to understand itself with. Right, It's like I'm analyzing the
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: mind with my mind. Oh great, how's that going? But yes,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I trying to turn down the chaos, trying to be
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the calm in the chaos. That Eastern philosophical construct of
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: equanimity is being able to be in the busyness and
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the mayhem, but without being chaotic or without being busy myself,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you know. And for me that's been a real journey too,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: because my mind is busy, busy mind. Not so much
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: an overthinking mind because that tends to be more.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Feared, but busy creative mind.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Busy creative, busy, you know, solving problems, coming up with ideas,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, yesterday on the way back from Sydney
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: to Melbourne. I just had my notes open in my phone,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: so just basically writing stuff electronically, and I literally came
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: up with about five potential ideas, new ideas for new
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: things that I definitely don't have time to do, but
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I just put them with this collection of ideas and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: thoughts that I have that I might, you know, open
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: the door on one day.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Well that's a technique in itself. And my iPhone's got
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: multiple notes and layers and folders, and the science behind
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: this is if you don't distill what's in your mind
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: and put it on the paper or put it onto
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: your digital format, it just circles around, so you're distracted.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: And it's been like Homer Simpson with the monkey and
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: the symbol doing the backflip. So metacognition got it. Theory
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: of mine having more of an awareness of others. Then
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: we go up the next layer.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: So up the next one, which is what we've already
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: covered to some extent, meta perception is what's it like
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: being around me? And again this is really this comes
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: from a space of or a place of wanting to
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: be able to create better interactions with others, to be
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: a better leader communicator, teacher, you know, employer, employee, athlete,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: So that whoever it is that I'm interacting with, that
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I'm working alongside, that I can understand or have some
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: insight into what it's like being around me, just so
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: that we have better communication, we have better apport, we
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: have better connection. We can in work situations, you know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: figure things out, solve problems, resolve conflict, agree to disagree.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I've got lots of friends who don't have a lot
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: of the same beliefs that I have around certain things,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: But my friendship with them and my love for them
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: is not conditional upon them thinking like me. If that
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: were the case, I'd be living in an echo chamber
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: or confirmation bias we call it, and I'd only pay
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: attention to people who sound like me, believe like me,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: and think like me, which would make me one an
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: ego maniac and two pretty lonely or essentially a cult member.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think we have a lot
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: of cult members on this We might have one or two.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: So majority of this audience aren't in cults and have
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: not been a cult member. Well, there are lots of
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: cults of thought, though you can identify cultka. You can
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: identify a cult of thought online very easy. And like
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the irony is or I guess, and this is true
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: for me too. So I'm not saying, hey, I've figured
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: this out, nobody else has. I have to be really
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: prepared to hold onto my beliefs loosely, because you think
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: about beliefs and ideas that they are intertwined with who
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: we are. Then now my identity is tied in into
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: being right about that thing. Now, when I truly believe that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: When it comes to this issue or this question or
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: this topic, the thing that I think is right, therefore
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: everyone else in the world who disagrees with me on
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: this is wrong. That's kind of a dangerous position to have.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: And so like I grew up, as we've spoken many times,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: in a very religious household, and subsequent to that went
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: and did a whole lot of other stuff in a
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: different version of the same religion. So I spent a
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: lot of my life reading the Bible, being philosophically theological,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: you know. And so I have a very specific background
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and training and programming and over the years, relationships and
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff that I was fully immersed in,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and now all of these years later, what I have
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to what I have to say anyway, based on how
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I now see the world and see myself in the world.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: That truth is I don't know, like and people don't
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: like saying I don't know. But is there a God?
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know?
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Is there is there a you know, eternity as we
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: understand it in the Christian sense?
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Is the Bible, you know, really the inspired word of God?
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: But I can think things and believe things. But also
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I have to be courageous and say this is what
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I think, This is even.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: What I believe. But could I be wrong? Yes, I
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: could be Could I be wrong? Yeap? What did they
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: let you into the monastery saying fucking your sermon? Well,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: this is the thing? Did you swear back then? Because
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you dropped the bomb a lot, and I even noticed
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: on the podcast I did with you, yes, like my
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: my fuck ratio went up. Yeah, of course, Now you
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: need to listen to the background to that. If Wizard
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: of You just do a bite size my fuck ratio
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: went up, that that might go off on the internet.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: But because like it's just you's being authentic, So I
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: can't imagine you were swearing at that age.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: No, so I so this is nobody needs to know this,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: but Catholic Church. And I always, I don't know if
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I ever told you this, but I always I had
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: all of these people coming into my life constantly telling
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: me that. And this is not even from within my circle.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: But God's got his hand on your life, whatever that means.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: God's got a purpose for you all these things. Anyway,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: through a range of really kind of weird and wacky
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: from the outside looking in weird and whacky events, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: ended up going to what was essentially a fundamental Christian church.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, I was, for one of a better term,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: balls deep. And I went to that church for about
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: four years, and I was nineteen to twenty three, maybe
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: five years, four or five years. And honestly, most of
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it was good in that I learned about, you know,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: like humility and purpose and a whole lot of things
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: that I needed to learn. And you know, I definitely
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: didn't master anything, but I I was a pretty good
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: student because I was genuinely curious about all of that.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: But one of the byproducts of that is so for
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: five years, I didn't have sex, I didn't swear, I didn't.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I lived a very monastic, disciplined life.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: And that's your late teens, early twenties. That's where people
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: literally come alive. Hormones are pulsing through your body and
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: with other people you're around. That's really that passage to adulthood. Yeah.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Well I was engaged to a woman I never slept with.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend who became my fiance within the church,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: and I was with her.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: We didn't get married.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I pulled the pin on that, which was, you know,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: the right thing to do, but also for her the
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: right thing to do. She dodged a bullet. Fuck imagine
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: marrying me, but that would have been a nightmare for her.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: So that worked out well. She married somebody and is
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: living happily ever after, which is nice. But but for me,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that was just that was what was required.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I had no idea about that part of your life.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Did you do you talk about that normally? That part? Yeah,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: very very committed. Yeah, yeah, whenever. It's just not that
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: relevant that often. But my point is that like I
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: grew up in a very a very specific model of
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: thinking and believing and faith and behavior, right, and you
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: are programmed, You are programmed. You are you know, I
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: chose it all.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can't question much because
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: if you, you know, like, if you question too much,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: you're out.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Of the group. Like it is very mid a line
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: in doctrination.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Well, it was quite The church I was in was
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: quite culty, right, and so it is very much an
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: echo chamber of thinking and believing. The truth is in cults,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: be they food cults, religious cults, political cults, sporting cults,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: cults of ideology, any ideology, you are not encouraged to
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: questioned the doctrine. You are discouraged. And not only are
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: you discouraged from thinking critically, you are criticized and you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: are cast out into the metaphoric darkness. And so this
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: is the problem that I have with any of these
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: ideological cults of thought, is.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: That one of the reasons if I pull on that thread,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons why you were so passionate about
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: human behavior and connection and people having a voice and
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: diversity because you had that block of life that wasn't
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Is that something you've reflected on and look back, is that, well, yeah,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: that is true.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: And there were questions that kept coming up for me
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: in that time, which I was told well, I'll tell
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: you what I was told. I was told that's the devil,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: that's Satan, trying to undermine God in your life and
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: all of these things. And I'm like, oh, well, that
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: kind of But the thing is also what people who
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: are And I'm not saying that there was any sinister
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: or a gender. I'd think all of the people they
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: actually believed it and meant well, right. But you know,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: there are certain people who can say pretty much anything
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: and back it up biblically. And this might sound weird
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to some of your listeners, but in certain environments you
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: can make pretty much anything sound reasonable with the right
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: scripture if you're talking to a vulnerable person, you know.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: And so for me, I wanted to go deeper than
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: just thought. I wanted to open a spiritual door. I
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to see what was there, what was beyond the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: cognitive curtain. And the thing is that, you know, this
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: is maybe another day, but you think about when we
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: open that door, and we kind of think about what
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: is and this is getting out of the psychology in
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the cognition space, of course, but even there is there
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: such a thing as a spiritual world, what does that
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: even mean?
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: And there's so.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Many things that we will experience in a lifetime that
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: don't make sense in inverted commas in psychology, and so
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: we go, well, that's bullshit, that's not real.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's not real. Maybe it is real, maybe.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: We just can't understand it with our understanding, with our
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: frame of reference, with our version of what is real
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: and what is not.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: This is what I love about a podcast, and you've
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: taught me this too. I don't rock up. I would
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: get anxiety rocking up with no script. But I've gone
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: from having question one answer question two, which is a
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: bit like a tennis game. I've got a running sheet here,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: and as I said at the start, three sort of
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: loose areas. Number one, why are you so passionate about
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: this topic? Number two, Let's dig into the science, and
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: we've done that metacognition at the base theory of mind,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: metaperception and meta accuracy, and I've got a question on
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: metaccuracy to wrap up. And then three I wanted to
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: talk to you about transitions, but I had no idea.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: We talk about that, and I understand a lot more
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: about you and what has driven you to do this,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing all that.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: I spent a long time studying and reading them. You
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: would not believe how many scriptures I could recite, which
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: nobody needs to hear. But yeah, like I studied it
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: like somebody would study at PhD for years. Every day,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: pray every day, quiet time every day, read every day,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: study every day every day.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of there's a lot of good
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: in prayer and with the Pacific boys. I told you
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: this woman caught up last time. So NRL now is
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: fifty four nearly fifty five Pacific or indigenous, much larger
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Pacific population. And when I was putting together a framework
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: at the start of the year, so we talk about
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: being in that peak performance zone inverted you. If you're
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: feeling a bit tired or fatigued, you add some fire.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: If you're feeling a little bit too revved up, you
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: add some eyes. So I put this nice model together.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: As you know, working with sporting teams, mate, you've got
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: to have a science base or an evidence base, but
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: keep as simple so the boys and the girls understand that.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: So we're doing all this work around fire and ice.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: It was really landing. What do you do to up regulate?
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: What do you do to down regulate? And then one
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: of the players come up and said, where's prayer. I'm like, ah,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: how remiss of me. So we've added prayer because prayer
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: can be meditative and it can be calming effect. Or
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: prayer can be tapping into purpose or a higher power
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: to add a bit of heartbeat and add a bit
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: of fire as well. So just surrounding that out for
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of people who do listen. Obviously we're talking
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: about extreme, but a lot of people will do prayer.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: And I say this to a lot of my Pacific boys,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: they go, I find it hard to meditate or do mindfulness.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Do you go to church every Sunday? Yeah, just drop
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: into being present in the moment and connect with your
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: heart rate and just think about other stuff and just
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: be in the moment without judgment. Now, transitions, Do you
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: consciously transition from one thing to the next, Because when
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: I look at your job description, it's pretty similar to mine,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: and you'll go from a podcast to a meeting about
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: a future project or a book, and then you go
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: to lots of workshops and you've got your hands and
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: lots of different things. Do you have a process where
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: you transition in and transition out? Because when I look
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: at that model, that whole metaaccuracy. I can't help but
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: think there's something you do either naturally or it's just
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: started the process way way way back to transition and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: to actually think how do I transition into this group
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: and how do I show up authentically but for what
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: they need.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have any set transition kind of process, but.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I be aware.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I think about who I'm going to be with and
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: why I'm going to be there, and what I want
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to do be create in the time that I'm with
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: that person or those people in that situation, like what's
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: my reason for being there?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Why do they want me there?
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: You know, as long as I show up knowing why
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I'm there and what are they Like yesterday I did.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I told you I did a real estate industry conference
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: in Manly, and I had basically quite a brief brief
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: so to speak, the organizers, and you know, I could
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: go wherever I wanted as long as I was talking
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: around that subject and I know, and then I had
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: a different brief for the gig that I did in
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: the afternoon. But as long as I stay in that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: in that domain, then I'm okay. But I don't I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: don't have any big kind of preparation process or you know.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: And I I think, because I've been doing it for
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: so long and talking for so long, I try not
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: to open doors that I'm not really knowledgeable about or
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: qualified in, because it's just if I don't know a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: fair bit about it or understand it, then I shouldn't
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: be talking about it.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I do.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I find it quite easy to transition from podcasts to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: speaking gig, to coaching session to you know.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Whatever, because it's for me, it's all just talking. Is that?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Though I love that model you said before about the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: public you, the personal you, the private you, the secret you,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: and potential you, I can't but think if someone is
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: very public when they transition from one thing to the next,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: it is a persona. And I openly say that I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: have a persona when I'm on a big stage. Got
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: to bring a bit of the jazz hands. But I
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: think what you're helping me understand to I love that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: you to call this episode something like Jazz Hands and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: metap Perception or something Jesus Jazz Hands and five years
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: with no jeers, Jesus Jazz Hands and a less existence
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: where I just cracking myself up of my own jokes.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: I'm doing harp jokes on my podcast.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: You know the other thing about five years with no Jeers,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: there really was five years with no jeers because the
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: other way that that Jez happens, that wasn't endorsed either.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a whole different podcast in it
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: something nobody needs to think about. Waited to almost the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: sixty minute mark, and people are just like similarly just
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: choked on the haven't they. Let's go back to what
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: I was talking about. Why have you gone red? That's
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: coming on? Do you look so uncomfortable because do you
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: need a glass of water or something? You're right, I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: don't know whether we've sort of gone with the secret
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: or private. We're sort of dancing between the two halfs.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: Love the authenticity, mate, but that public face. Love the authenticity.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: But stopte it's we're talking about self awareness and metacognition.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: But and you're showing a really good example. It actually
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: is a good example that you you said that before
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: and lets it open the window. You go, all right,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: big fellow, bang here it is no whacking off for
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: five years. Take that in your face. You're welcome world.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: But I just see there's there's almost no delineation between
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: that for you, so you're showing us even in this conversation.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: And so from an energy shift, you don't need to
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: shift energy because you're doing what's authentic. You're doing what
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: fuels you, so you can be personal private in public.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: So there isn't a real need to ramp up. So
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to catch up with that because I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: still teach. It's really important for corporates, especially before they
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: go into a meeting, to transition because some matter up
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: more performance moments, and I'll always go through a framework
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: three questions, and it's very much sport and military influenced.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Number one, who's in the room to what's the context?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Number three what does success look like? And if you
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: can ask those three questions before every meeting, podcast performance moment,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: you do pretty well what we miss. So a lot
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: of people come out of that straight into the next thing.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a look back in the
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: review mirror. Three more questions, what worked, what didn't? What
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: can we improve next time? So sort of rolling between
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: these performance moments. Yes, yes, look, yeah, I mean definitely
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: I prepare in the sense that I'm well aware who
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I'm talking with and talking for and the outcomes that
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I want to create. But yeah, I try to bring
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: that very comfortable energy too, you know, there's not so
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: much rah rah, you know, and that works for me.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: But I think what's really important to say here too,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: is that so for anyone who is thinking about whether
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: or not it's doing a pub having your own podcast,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: or becoming a presenter or a professional speaker or a coach,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: or the way that Andrew does it in the way
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: that I do it, that's just the way that we
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: do it. That's not the best way. That's what works
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: for us.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: And I think that just like you know, we don't
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: say what's the best diet, we say what's the best
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: diet for you based on you know, your body, your
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: your training, your you know, your age or your genetic
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: dispisition all of that, you know, So it's trying to
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: find in the middle of all of this. You know,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: I've worked with other speakers who are so different to
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: me but amazing. But I couldn't do what they do
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: because I would be faking.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: It and they couldn't do what you do. E That's
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: a flip side because you're you're in your lane, and
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: so it's not like, oh, the Craig harp Away is
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: the way. No, No, that's the way for me.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: It's like I also like, I do lots of things
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: I do that work for me that I would not
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: recommend for others because nobody is me but me.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: If I share kind of a revelation about how I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: do something and somebody wants to give that a go,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: that's fine, but there's no guarantee. You know.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: It's like I decided when I was twenty one or two,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to have a.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Job per se. I wanted to work for me. I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: didn't want a bus, I didn't want to go to work.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to sit in a cubicle. I didn't
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: want to wear a suit. I figured out all of
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: these things I didn't want to do, and I'm like,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: what's the antidote to that? Well, the antidote is that
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: I figure out how I can build something that's a
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: synergy of making dough and having fun and learning and
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: evolving and working with humans. And that's kind of what
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: I did. But I've spent thirty four years.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Not having holiday pay, not having sick pay, not having
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: any guarantees, not knowing what I would make next month.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: You know, a whole lot of vulnerability and exposure that
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: most people would not like at all, but I thrive
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: in that. That's my jam. I love that shit. But again,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend it.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: You know. It's just like I eate two meals a
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: day because that works for me, but it's not something
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: I would recommend to people. So I think, you know,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: even with these podcasts, you know, lean in and listen
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: and see what resonates, and then maybe if something resonates.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: You know, take that for a test drive and see
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: what the outcome is. You know, because it's different things
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: work for different people.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Just go back to one open loop. There's many. I'll
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: close one and then we'll start to bring this baby behind.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: On the speaking I've seen and I know you've seen
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: as well. There's certain speakers. So you see them and
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: they're on stage and it's a wonderful show. It really
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: is persona and you watch it and go, oh, wonderful choreography,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: look up and the music starts or fade left, fade
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: right and tell the story. You know where I'm going
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: with this. We're probably thinking of some similar speakers. You
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: see and you go, oh, that was awesome, and then
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: you see them the second time and go where's you. Yeah.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: So for people listening to this, I think you're the
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: extreme with respect on just free range. But you've done
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: loads of fucking work, made decades and decades, so you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: can rock up and you are that you projected you,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: and it's that beautiful blend public personal, private, a little
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: bit of secret every now and then, but it's the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: narrative you're happy with. We see some other people are
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: so choreographed, probably so uncomfortable with the real them that
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: they put on this persona and mask, and that's draining.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: It really is draining. So I think for people listening
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: to this, just think where are you on that spectrum
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: when you show up? Are you putting on the mask?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Are you the phantom of the opera every single time?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Or you're just rocking up as you probably for most
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: people this summer in the middle. And I think one
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: of the lessons for me in this this discussion with you, mate,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: is about well, where am I happy being? And you've
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: said this on your podcast when you've interviewed me. I'll
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: do a bit more prep and I'm a bit more
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: jazz handy on that stuff as well. But I found
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: the lame way that suits me. And it's taken a while.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: And I love the feedback you gave me before, and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: I felt it the last podcast we did, I felt
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: we really connected. We did one a couple of years ago.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: I think I was more jazz hands sort of speaking
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: at as well. As you get more comfortable in yourself,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's just it's energy fueling rather than energy draining.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: So that's a real takeout from this conversation.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but and I'm not pissing in your pocket. But
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: you're You're great. And what is interesting is that you know,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know how old you are.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: How old are you fifty or fifty one?
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: I mean this is interesting because you are getting better,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: not like, oh, you're just hanging in there. And I'm
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: not saying this to pump you up in front of
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: your audience, but the you that i've over the decades,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: you're better.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: Your skills are better.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: You're understanding your awareness, your self awareness, the way that
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: you communicate, the way that you frame things and structure
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: things and tell stories. You know, it's like you're better.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: And what's great is that at fifty one, you're still
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: growing and learning at sixty I'm still growing and learning
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: like this is not normal, but fuck normal, fuck typical,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: like you know, and it's not about that We've got
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: to be you know this in this endless pursuit of excellence.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: But you know, I know that if I can keep learning, evolving,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: growing while enjoying the journey and being me and still
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: having a degree of contentment and calm, but also side
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: by side, were still a little ambition, then why not you.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Know two things about one? Thank you? I still want
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: to acknowledge that it means a lot coming from you.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: And I was going to make a flippant joke, and
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: that's a dubo boy me coming out going. He's giving
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: me feedback. I've got to be a bit of a
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: and not take it. But I'm going to sit in
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: it and say thank you for someone I've looked up
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: to for years and someone who's had a big influence
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: on my life. You. I really appreciate that. And secondly,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: why not at fifty one or sixty one or seventy one,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: or if someone's listening to this and you're twenty one,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: why not be in a stage of constant growth? And
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: if we're going to get to one hundred, which I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: want to. I'm halfway there. And I just think on
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: the mental skills side of my business, working with sporting
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: teams and literally having the opportunity to work with great
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: men and great women around the world. Now harps, I'm
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: fucking loving it. But I'm just scratching the surface, mate,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: And I really can see in five years and that
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: and even ten years, I'm going to have so much
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: better experience and better skills and better service in that area.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: That shit keeps me awake at night.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny is just backtracking about three minutes
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: you said cheers, no, no, no, you said something about
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: the Phantom of the opera, the Phantom of the So
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: the guy who is the Phantom, who played the Phantom
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: on West End in London and in Australia. His name's
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Josh Pittman, and I coach him, I work with him. Yeah,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: he's awesome. And he has a podcast called Behind the
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Mask as well, which is just kicking off and it's
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: it's really it's funny hearing you say that, and we
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: talk about this mask and we've spoken, he and I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: are spoken. You should get him on Old chats him
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: and see if you're interested.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: He'd love to. He's great mate. He's a high performer.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: He's a freak, but he's just a deep thinking, creative
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: clever like deep you and him will go great.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: I said to him the other day.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: We're having a coffee and talking about I'm coaching him
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: a bit in doing some keynote speaking, right, I said,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you know, And I said, look, sometimes you're going to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: be in a boardroom with ten people, and sometimes you're
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: going to be you know, wherever in front of a
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: thousand people. And you know, I said, what's the most
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: you've ever sung in front of? And he goes ninety
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: two and a half thousand, and I go, all right,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: well you've got me covered.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: Jeez, like live at nine. I was going to say
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: it'd be a big sporting event.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, live singing in front of ninety two and
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: a half thousand peral bet him singing in front of
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: ninety two and a half it's performer, yeah, and persona
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: and then he steps back into the person I bet
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: it's scarce a shit out of him thinking of standing
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: in a boardroom having an authentic, open, real conversation to
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: ten people without the metaphorical mask, so I can see
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: exactly the utility you have for Joel Well and also
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: just on that same thing, similar thing like I love comedy, right,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: I love I love There ain't that much great comedy
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: around at the moment, but.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: I love making people laugh.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm hilarious by any means, but but
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: I've always I've had this secret thing to get up
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: and just do five minutes of an open mic. I
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: am more terrified of doing five minutes of stand up
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: comedy in front of twelve disintransted strangers than I am
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: of doing pretty much anything else.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: All right, well, so you have a dart. No, no,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. No, no, listen, listen. I registered
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: and people regular listeners have heard this. Before I went
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: to KPMG, I wanted to scare myself because I've been
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: in my comfort zone. And I enrolled in a four
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: week comedy course and the final week was at Star
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: City and you invited family members, friends, and you did
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: a five minute open mind. I went to the first
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: night and they got us up on stage and I
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: didn't read the brief. Typical me, you'd understand this, and
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: I just rocked up, thinking they'll get to talk to us.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: And then they said, all right, now we're going to
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: get everyone up and just do one or two minutes,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: and we're going to look at the progress and we're
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: going to film you. And I went first. He said,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: all right, do you It was I feel uncomfortable listening
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: fu awful. I wanted to some sort of keynote presentation,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: which is funny with context, like I wouldn't say that
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: I'm hilarious, but I think I'm situational funny or slapstick funny,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: so I know how to make a crowd laugh. I
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: did that, and you could hear crickets cricket. So guess
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: what I did? What did you do? I didn't go back?
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: I used. I used the excuse that I just started
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: at KPMG. So when you say that, I will, at
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: some stage get the balls and go back because I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: don't want to be a comedian, but I talk regularly,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: as you do, to people about getting out of that
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: comfort zone. So I've got to go back and do that.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: So I'd love you to do it. I think it
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: would seem like scare the shit out of here, but
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: there'd be a big learning in it.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Well, see when you've got a warm audience. Right, you're
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: there and you're doing something and a group is there
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: to hear you, right, and you're not there to be funny. Well,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: then you can be incidentally funny and they laugh. But
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: people are not there for that purpose. But when you're
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: a comedian, well make us laugh, dumbass.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: It's like it's such a skill. I've seen Lawrence Mooney
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: probably more than any other comedian and just so clever
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: and deprecating and takes the piss and you can see
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: the theory. There's a formula there. It scares the shit
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: out of me getting up on stage and doing that.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't be doing it anytime soon. You can
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: just tell us how you go.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you for today. Thanks mate, it's been great. I
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: love it. For people who want to get more of
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Harp's the best way to find you listen to you?
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Where should they go?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: So maybe just the You Project, which is my podcast,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: or I'm actually going to launch some public events in
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: the next week or so. You can find those on
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: my website which is just Craig Harper dot net. And
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I'm quite prolific on Instagram, which is just Craig Anthony
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Harper or.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: One word good work on the public ones. Are you
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: doing that yourself or you're doing it with the events
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: doing that?
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Melissa, who runs my life and who's much smarter than me,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: she's putting all those up. So we are running them.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: The U Project is my company, so we're running them,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: and I'm doing I'm doing a big Melbourne workshop Brisbane,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: Melbourne and one in Rural Victor Rural esh Bend you go.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm doing a kind of a
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: half day workshop called Understanding You.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I really like it. It's new content. I'm really excited
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: about it. And then I do these other things where
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: I go into state this is a bit cheeky. I shouldn't.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't pull back the curtain. But I'll tell you.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: So when I've got Sometimes when i've got a corporate gig,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: say on a Friday, I'll go up the Thursday and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: I'll do what I call a private workshop for say
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: thirty people where I'm staying, so I'll book a boardroom,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: and the night before my corporate gig, I'll just I'll
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: do a thirty person private workshop, twenty to thirty people,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: so it's small, it's intimate, and I spend about three
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: and a half hours with people and it's you know,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: there's a bit of presenting, but it's more organic where
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: people can just ask me stuff and we can go
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: wherever we go. So I've been doing those a fair
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: bit as well, and they're fun. I like those because
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's very intimate and I'm used
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: to being on a stage, but it's not that.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: It's probably given you a whole lot of different material
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: as well, the reps and sets to now do the
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: half day, So there's been method in that process. Yes, yes,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: so all that more. Love your work mate, love you,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: and thank you for making me blush.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: I love you too, be boy, it's great seeing you
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: that shade of Crimson. It was worth it just for that.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much