Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Blackrocks NEW Bitcoin Product is ATTACKING Michael Saylor?? | EP 1475

Transcript

Blackrocks NEW Bitcoin Product is ATTACKING Michael Saylor?? | EP 1475 · Simply Bitcoin

0:02
BlackRock has come out this week and launched a new Bitcoin
0:06
product and everyone's wondering is this a direct competitor to
0:11
Michael Saylor Stretch or actually just more Wall Street
0:16
products competing with the likes of the JP Morgan's and the
0:19
Morgan Stanley? Now ignoring their differences
0:22
for now, Stretch from micro strategy has proved there is
0:26
significant demand for this type of product.
0:28
Over the past four weeks, Stretch by itself has helped
0:32
micro strategy by over 50,000 Bitcoin and in the last four
0:36
days alone has acquired over 4500 Bitcoin.
0:41
It's, it's really insane what we're watching with Stretch.
0:44
But are these new products going to accelerate the supply
0:47
suffocation or does Wall Street have a different agenda in mind?
0:53
Guys, obviously I think you know where my bias is going to be on
0:57
this, So let me just jump into these Bitcoin mag article kind
1:01
of explaining this. And here we have BlackRock files
1:05
ticker for Bitcoin premium income ETF.
1:08
As Bitcoin strategy expands, BlackRock advance a new premium
1:12
income ETF strategy revealing the ticker.
1:14
It's BITA BITA for a new fund position as A and this is the
1:19
big I think emphasis here yield focus sequel to its existing
1:23
Bitcoin ETF lineup. We've been hearing this forever
1:27
in terms of Bitcoin. What do a lot of people usually
1:30
say in regards to why they will not invest in Bitcoin?
1:34
Well it's because it doesn't have the the same
1:38
characteristics that most people look for when they do doing when
1:42
they go to invest and one of them is where is their yield?
1:45
How do you get yield on Bitcoin? What do you just do with
1:48
Bitcoin? You just buy it and hold it like
1:50
I want yield on top of it Well, we're starting to see that Wall
1:53
Street is trying to launch these products so here we go of course
1:57
they revealed the ticker and oh sorry, sorry, I thought I
2:02
thought it booted me off guys again describing this as sequel
2:06
to their existing Bitcoin ETF line up.
2:08
We still don't know what the management fees are going to be,
2:11
but suffice to say they're probably going to be pretty low
2:15
considering that Morgan Stanley just dropped their latest ETF
2:18
offering or announcement and it's about 14 basis points, so
2:23
it's probably gonna be pretty low.
2:24
Now this is where it gets a little interesting.
2:27
Again, this isn't a one to one comparison to Michael Saylor's
2:30
Stretch product, but you can see that this idea of yield on top
2:36
of Bitcoin is catching on on Wall Street and here's the you
2:40
know, technicals. The proposed ETF is designed to
2:43
combine direct Bitcoin exposure with an income generating
2:47
options overlay. According to the prior SEC
2:50
filings, the structure is intended to hold Bitcoin linked
2:52
assets, basically the I bit ETF, while also writing covered call
2:58
options on those holdings. The strategy aims to generate
3:00
premium income while still tracking bitcoins price
3:03
performance net of expenses. The fun is of course just a new
3:08
product in this institutional Bitcoin product roll out beyond
3:12
just passive exposure and into the quote yield focus
3:17
strategies. Of course.
3:19
It's just a a constant theme we've been seeing since the ETF
3:23
launch in 2023 or was it 2024? I forget I think.
3:26
I think it was 2023. January of 2024.
3:30
OK, well my, my, my dude, I don't know what time it, I don't
3:34
know what days are anymore. Anyways, you're starting to see
3:38
this has happened or this is actually happening.
3:41
Remember, you know, a little flashback here, JP Morgan
3:45
offered a Bitcoin structured note.
3:48
This was the end of November, beginning of December, and it
3:52
seems like they are doing something similar.
3:54
They're trying to harness the volatility and offer yield to
3:58
investors because that's what they're looking for.
4:01
They don't want to just sit on Bitcoin and get number go up.
4:05
They want to hold Bitcoin and get paid on top of it.
4:09
And I don't know if you guys saw this yesterday, but Sailor did
4:12
do a pretty interesting tweet here and every I literally saw
4:16
people wondering what is he even tweeting about?
4:19
And I'm like, guys, he's talking about the stretch product.
4:21
Like it's not that difficult. Here's his tweet. 3 perfect
4:24
products, a car that drives you, a robot that serves you and an
4:27
asset that pays you. Again, one of the things we've
4:31
been saying here in regards to, I wouldn't say Sailors recent
4:36
shift in rhetoric, but he's no longer just talking to the
4:40
plebs. You know, he's no longer just
4:41
talking to us. He's talking to the
4:44
corporations, the institutions, the sovereign nation state
4:48
level. He's talking to them in terms
4:51
that they understand, especially now that they launched the
4:54
Stretch product, which is catching on like wildfire.
4:57
It's absolutely insane what they're doing with Stretch.
5:01
So let me show you what they've done in the last week alone, let
5:05
alone what we've seen in the last couple of months, or
5:08
rather, you know, month or so. So this is the Stretch product
5:12
just this week and it is a short week.
5:14
Today is Good Friday. Most you know, Wall Street
5:18
trading houses are closed right now.
5:20
So in a short week strategy Stretch STRC was able to buy an
5:27
estimated 4535 Bitcoin this week.
5:31
Just this week alone doesn't account for all the other
5:34
Bitcoin that has been attracted to, or rather the capital that's
5:39
been attracted to Stretch so that they can buy more Bitcoin.
5:42
And here we go, you know, March 31st saw Stretch erupt with an
5:46
estimated 2724 Bitcoin purchase on a staggering $367.36 million
5:52
in in volume in a single session.
5:55
Now this week, the four day week produced an estimated 4535.58
6:02
Bitcoin brought through Stretch Bitcoin funding activity
6:05
totaling approximately $741 million in volume.
6:11
Again, for context, Bitcoin mines produces 450 coins per
6:18
day, meaning that Stretch alone this week has bought more than
6:22
2.5 times the total new supply mine during that same period.
6:27
It's what we were saying yesterday.
6:28
Yes, there might be a consolidation in terms of
6:31
Bitcoin treasury companies, but what we're seeing with Stretch
6:35
and further what we're seeing from Wall Street trying to
6:38
create these yield products, you're seeing that this is
6:42
probably going to be the trend that is building up now a 1 to
6:46
one comparison between Blackrock's new BITA ETF and the
6:51
stretch product. It it's not necessarily a one to
6:54
one comparison again guys above my pay grade, but I did do a
6:57
little ChatGPT ING here just so I can kind of wrap my head
7:00
around is there a comparable here?
7:03
And even though the products aren't the same, there is
7:07
something that you can compare here.
7:09
So I'm, I'm not going to pull up the ChatGPT, but here is the
7:12
Black Rock Bita ETF strategy. It's basically, like I said,
7:16
sell covered calls on Bitcoin to generate income.
7:19
It's a yield ETF built on top of Bitcoin volatility.
7:23
Now the stretch product and the bit of product are obviously
7:26
they're not the same, but they're conceptually converging.
7:29
That's you know, ChatGPT here both are trying to answer the
7:33
same problem and This is why the comparison is very interesting
7:37
and the question is how do we turn Bitcoin into yield for
7:40
Tradfi investors? That's what the investors want,
7:44
yes. Maybe from a purely Bitcoin maxi
7:48
Bitcoin only just Hoddle Bitcoin.
7:50
Take it into self store self custody.
7:53
It might not be up your alley here, obviously.
7:56
Could you could you go like this?
7:58
I want to understand the mechanism.
8:00
So essentially it depends on the volatility of Bitcoin for it to
8:04
generate. Yeah, yeah.
8:06
So essentially what the bit of product is going to do, they're
8:09
going to hold spot Bitcoin or sorry, not even spot Bitcoin.
8:12
They're going to hold the I bit ETF and then they're going to do
8:15
covered calls. So as we saw with the JP Morgan
8:19
structure, note, it is basically how do you put this like
8:25
understanding that Bitcoin is volatile and then BlackRock is
8:29
trying to sell that volatility as income, which we've heard
8:32
sailors say? I mean, I, I've heard there's
8:35
other, there's other stocks that that do this already.
8:38
Yeah. No, this is like a very normal
8:40
thing for most commodities and ETF.
8:42
So they're essentially doing the trad fi kind of playbook now
8:47
with Bitcoin, which is very interesting in terms of the kind
8:51
of the new trend that we're seeing from Wall Street of
8:53
Bitcoin being as collateral. It's really starting to feel
8:56
that Bitcoin out, like Bitcoin is pursuing collateral moment.
8:59
I mean it, it's quite interesting to me like the
9:01
different mechanisms between like, for example, stretch and
9:05
then the the I bit, you know, kind of solution from like a,
9:13
like from a stability standpoint.
9:16
The I bit one, because it's just relying on Bitcoins volatility,
9:22
I would say is more of a, it's more of a safer bet from
9:27
BlackRock, which I think I, you would assume since it is this
9:30
large asset manager, they have no need to take huge risks.
9:35
The Sailor one, I would say it's a bit more risky because it
9:39
really kind of depends on, and I know Sailor has said something
9:42
differently, but it really does depend on that thesis that
9:47
Sailor basically that it by 2045, his base case is that
9:54
Bitcoin's $13 million per coin. And that implies that Bitcoin
9:59
from here to then is going to have an average of a 20% CAGR,
10:03
which allows him to, and he's, he's, he's shown graphs on this
10:08
and stuff. It allows him to essentially
10:12
take away the volatility from the person that does want that
10:15
fixed income return, and then he's able to keep the difference
10:19
right. Someone in the chat said.
10:21
JRR Token says the BITA prospects reads a lot like
10:25
BTCIBTCI and other covered calls.
10:29
ETF Stretch is truly unique in its approach.
10:32
Without a doubt, without a doubt.
10:34
But but Sailor is taking on more risk with the Stretch product
10:39
because again, it really relies on the thesis of Bitcoin hitting
10:44
$13 million per coin because that's how it makes sense.
10:47
If Bitcoin is giving a a yearly 20% kagar and sailors saying,
10:52
listen, I'll take the volatility away from you.
10:54
I'll take the volatility away. I'll give you 11% instead.
10:58
I'll shoulder the volatility because I'm expecting the asset
11:01
to appreciate 20%. Then essentially MicroStrategy
11:05
makes the difference. That's how the stretch product
11:07
works in my mind. And it's it's super attractive
11:11
that 11.5%. I hate using the word yield.
11:16
I don't even want to use it. I know.
11:17
Right. It feels dirty.
11:18
It really does want. To use the word yield, the the
11:20
word yield in our industry has amounted to disasters.
11:25
Every time I hear you're going to get.
11:27
Go wrong with black you're. Going to get a yield on your
11:29
bitcoins. Like no, dude, you are the yield
11:31
bro. The reason the stretch product
11:34
is different and I think it really kind of differentiates
11:37
itself from like, you know, what they were doing, what what the
11:42
crypto industry was doing in the past is sailors making a very
11:47
calculated bet, right? He had, he made this
11:50
presentation in 2024. It didn't really change.
11:54
That was the year that President Trump or, or he was he was
11:58
running for election. Now he's president made his
12:02
famous speech at the Bitcoin conference.
12:04
That's where Sailor had this epic presentation and he showed
12:07
it off and he was like, listen, my base case is I think we're
12:10
going to hit $13 million per coin by 2045.
12:14
If that come. And you know, there's a bull
12:16
case and there's a bear case. But if that is true, then again,
12:20
you're going to get that 20% CAGR it, it averages out to that
12:24
20%. And if you do get that 20% CAGR
12:27
for the next 20 years, then they're in the, they're, they're
12:31
making money with that stretch product, right?
12:33
They're taking away the risk from you, the perceived risk,
12:37
right? They're giving you a, a, a 11.5%
12:41
a dividend payment. Much better to say than yield,
12:43
right? And you know, they, they get the
12:47
upside, right? So it's, it's genius sailors
12:51
taking a lot more risk. But I mean, look, at the end of
12:54
the day, you know, we're on the side, we're simply Bitcoin guys.
12:57
Like we're on the side of sailor.
12:59
Like I think that if Bitcoin doesn't at least reach the
13:03
market cap of gold, I think Bitcoin has failed.
13:06
My that's my honest that's my honest opinion.
13:10
I think you know, you have the famous total addressable market,
13:13
right, which is 400 trillion right now Bitcoin sitting at
13:16
1.5. So are you trying to tell me
13:20
that Bitcoin, if this is the best money the world has ever
13:23
seen, if this is the scarcest asset the world has ever seen,
13:27
if this truly is a monetary black hole that sucks everything
13:30
into it, right? And all the memes and all the
13:32
thesises and all of the things that we've been saying, right?
13:35
VJ Boyapati's the bullish case for Bitcoin.
13:37
Like we, we, we've, we've heard all the bullish cases, like,
13:40
we've heard all the theories, like we've, we've heard it
13:43
written in many different ways, But like, it's at a point where,
13:47
OK, it's put up or shut up time. Is Bitcoin going to do that?
13:51
I fundamentally believe it is. But if everyone believed it was,
13:56
then Bitcoin would be at a much higher price right now.
13:58
The, the risk would be taken away, right?
14:00
Sailor has said this famously when he went on stage, he was
14:03
basically like, look like by the time the bankers tell you to buy
14:06
Bitcoin, it's going to be at $10 million per coin, right?
14:10
So there is an element of risk that you're taking.
14:13
But with that element of risk, I'm gonna use Sailor's quote
14:16
again. Volatility is life, right?
14:19
The volatility to the downside that we currently experience is
14:22
the reason you're gonna get volatility to the upside.
14:24
Opti and I are yearning for the days where you would have a 50%
14:29
drop in a day, right? Back in the day, it was like so
14:33
painful. And we're like, dude, like this
14:34
is, this is terrible. But like it's like you don't
14:36
you, you kind of had don't have those days in Bitcoin anymore,
14:41
which again, it sucks to the downside, but it's also really
14:44
good for the upside because you would have these crazy days in
14:47
Bitcoin where Bitcoin would be up 50% in a day, right?
14:52
So yeah, the volatility is decreasing.
14:54
I don't think it's decreasing rapidly.
14:56
Like we're down 50% in like 6 months.
14:59
Like that's pretty effing bad for any asset.
15:01
So you can't say, oh, the volatility is completely gone.
15:04
The volatility is there. And if the volatility is there,
15:06
that means that there is definitely upside.
15:08
And let me, let me know guys, what other asset do you think is
15:13
going to give a 2 to 3 to 400% return over the next three to
15:19
four years? Nothing's guaranteed in life,
15:21
right? Nothing's guaranteed.
15:23
But what other asset would be able to deliver that type of
15:27
performance? I don't, I don't think there is
15:29
another one. And from like the people that
15:32
you know, perhaps you, you guys are class of 21 or, or you guys
15:35
are class of 24. You guys are currently playing
15:37
your dues right now like from a risk adjusted return
15:41
perspective, right? 2017 like my class and Opti's
15:46
class 20/16/2017 Bitcoin was not a sure bet at all.
15:52
There was no content you you couldn't look up Bitcoin content
15:55
on the Internet. It was Andreas Santonopoulos.
15:57
He was the only one. And Max Keiser, Max and Stacy
15:59
shout out to them. But that was it.
16:01
Bitcoin content didn't exist. All the literature that exists
16:05
now, all the guides, all the educational stuff that exists
16:09
today did not exist back then. It was it, it was, it was
16:13
barren, right? So you were taking on a lot more
16:16
risk. There's the there's the block
16:18
size wars, there's a China mining ban.
16:21
You were taking a lot more risk. Now with risk came greater
16:25
upside. But to think that you would be
16:28
as comfortable in investing in Bitcoin in 2017 and you would
16:33
have that same mindset today is completely dishonest and
16:38
disingenuous because it, it felt like the Wild West.
16:42
And I think the only reason that, you know, people like me
16:45
and Opti did it was because we were, we were desperate.
16:48
We, we didn't, we didn't have another choice.
16:50
Like we looked. Opti has this famous story where
16:53
he goes and tries to open a Schwab account and they're like,
16:56
they laughed him out of them. They're like, get out of here.
16:58
This was the days before Robin Hood and all that stuff.
17:01
So it was at a point in my life I was 23 or 24 years old and I
17:06
was like, dude, I, I don't have anything else to lose, right?
17:09
That's the key. That's the key thing.
17:11
It's like, look, like I, I, I don't have anything else to
17:13
lose. If I put my money in the stock
17:14
market, what I'll get 10%, you know, like a year at best case
17:18
scenario. Like what good is 10% if you
17:21
have $100? Like what good is 10% if you
17:24
have $1000? Like that's not really going to
17:26
get you far, right? So we saw it as a way out.
17:30
I would say, I would say I, I would think that's.
17:32
Accurate. The only way out I'm.
17:34
I'm, I guess I'm, I'm speaking for you, but I saw it as a way
17:37
out. Like I was not in a good place
17:38
in my life back then neither. I don't think Opti no Opti would
17:42
fall into that same category. I was broke and Bitcoin was
17:45
still broke, still broke. We don't have any different, but
17:49
you know, it's like Bitcoin was literally the the only option.
17:52
You're like, OK, I, I see this And I mean, they're going to go
17:55
down with the ship or you go up with the ship.
17:56
And the awesome part about like holding Bitcoin is you don't go
18:01
down the rabbit hole before you start holding it.
18:02
You start holding it and then when you realize that a that a
18:06
big portion of your net worth is in Bitcoin, then you start
18:08
asking really good questions about money and you start asking
18:11
really good questions. You're like, what is the Federal
18:13
Reserve? What is Fiat money?
18:15
What is Bitcoin? What is the problem that Bitcoin
18:17
sets out to solve? And then you start having all
18:19
these like euphoria moments in your head and you start
18:22
connecting the dots and you're like, Oh my God, I am holding
18:25
the best asset the world has ever seen.
18:28
Now, we are at a crossroads right now, ladies and gentlemen.
18:32
We are at a crossroads in the sense that I think the retail
18:35
phase, there always be a portion of of Bitcoin buyers that are
18:40
retail, but the retail Phase I think is behind us.
18:44
I think we're in the crossing the chasm currently.
18:48
This is what we're currently doing.
18:49
I really believe this. I strongly believe this.
18:51
We're currently crossing the chasm into the early majority
18:57
phase, right? You have like the typical, you
18:59
know, bell curve adoption, right?
19:01
First you have the innovators and you have the early adopters,
19:04
and then you have the early majority.
19:05
We're entering the early majority phase.
19:09
And with the early majority phase, you have the institutions
19:13
coming, you have sovereign wealth funds coming, you have
19:16
nation states coming. And like every single bear
19:21
market before this, guess what? They're capitulating like we all
19:27
did, like retail all did. It's the same thing.
19:30
It's the same thing. It's just happening on a much
19:33
bigger scale, right? So listen, I'm on team Sailor.
19:38
I, I, one of the things that I didn't like about this
19:41
particular cycle was that it was so institutionally driven, was
19:46
that it was so driven not by retail, but by institutions.
19:50
You know, that's where the meme came out.
19:51
Paper, Bitcoin, summers, suit coiners, all of that stuff.
19:54
I think people forgot the importance of self custody and
19:58
the power that comes with self custody.
20:00
That's one of the things I didn't like about the cycle.
20:02
And then this cycle, we didn't have a euphoric top like we
20:05
normally do. We topped on apathy.
20:07
We topped on people just getting tired saying I've had enough.
20:12
I, I'm, I, I think I could find better returns elsewhere, right?
20:17
And I would say that is nature healing itself, that that's what
20:20
Bitcoin has always done throughout its history.
20:24
The halving cycles have been followed to a tee.
20:26
I don't think this time is any different.
20:28
I think the halving cycle's intact.
20:32
If Bitcoin goes up 100K in the next four or five months, I'll
20:35
I'll I'll I'll be sure to offer Opti and everyone else an
20:39
apology, but until that happens, how?
20:41
About some sets. I give you.
20:44
Sad. I'll just I give you sad.
20:47
I'm trying so, but you know, like I, I think, I think what,
20:51
what sailor is doing, which stretch is bold.
20:54
It's, it's very, very bold because if it works, if it works
20:59
right and it's working right, But if it works for a period of
21:03
time, like, you know, taught, let's say a decade, right, or
21:10
like 15 years or like 20 years, it is a fundamental game changer
21:17
to society and investing as a whole because people, an 8 to
21:25
10% return is considered ideal, right?
21:29
The fact that a fixed income product is giving you that on a
21:33
yearly basis is gnarly. And then they're using that
21:38
product to do what? To buy more Bitcoin.
21:41
And Bitcoin has absolute scarcity, right?
21:44
So Opti pointed it out just this week alone, 4500 Bitcoin that it
21:50
might. It might have got to a billion
21:52
dollars this week if it wasn't a short week.
21:54
Stretch by itself is buying more Bitcoin than the, the active,
21:59
the, the, the amount of Bitcoin that's actively being mined.
22:03
And by the way, that's only going to get thinner.
22:07
Like there's a halving and it's less, I think it's less than
22:09
like two, 2-3 years away, right? I don't know when the next
22:14
halving is. The next half, the last halving
22:16
for two years, 24, So yeah. So 22 years, 26 so in 28, so
22:20
next halving is in 28. So that it's just going to get
22:25
more scarce, ladies and gentlemen, like it's just going
22:27
to get more scarce. So like it's not it's not easy.
22:31
It's not hard to do the math here.
22:33
And I know that like we as humanity went back to the moon
22:38
before Bitcoin did, but there's. Still time.
22:42
There's still time, right? No, I think those astronauts are
22:48
gonna. I think they're gonna, I think
22:49
they're gonna get to the moon before.
22:50
And let's be fair, 100K is not the moon anymore.
22:53
That's just like baseline. So I mean, I think 100K was like
22:57
very symbolic and it felt really good.
23:01
But you know, I think we were all expecting more.
23:03
And, and, and here's the thing guys, this is the crunch time.
23:07
This is the crunch time. But Bitcoin has been in these
23:09
situations before. First time Bitcoin hit a dollar.
23:13
Like you look at those old videos of those people, like
23:15
they were losing their minds. First time Bitcoin hit $100.
23:19
First time Bitcoin hit $1000, The first time I hit Bitcoin hit
23:23
$100,000. It was unbelievable.
23:25
It was theoretically possible, but it was unbelievable every
23:29
single time it achieved and reached those levels, right?
23:33
So saying Bitcoin at $1,000,000, again, just put yourself in the
23:39
past and try to, you know, try to look into the future and
23:43
you're like, OK, you know, I could, I could see that
23:46
happening, right? Like even saying, even saying
23:48
$5,000,000 Bitcoin, even saying Hal Finney's like famous $10
23:52
million prediction. Like think about that for a
23:55
second. Like that sounds nuts.
23:58
Like you're like, that's, that's crazy.
23:59
Like that's absurd. Only sounds nuts when I tell it
24:02
to annoy me. It sounds, I think it, I think
24:04
it sounds, I think it sounds absurd.
24:05
I mean, like with with I, I think it sounds absurd.
24:08
Like with Bitcoin's current price action, like I got to be
24:11
honest, guys like 2021, I thought Bitcoin was going to hit
24:14
100K and I think it was destined to hit 100K.
24:17
But the China man mining ban happened and then this cycle I
24:21
was at least expecting, you know, a quarter $1,000,000
24:25
Bitcoin. So right now it's kind of put up
24:28
or shut up right now. So like let's see if Bitcoin can
24:33
reach a quarter $1,000,000. Let's see if Bitcoin can reach
24:36
half $1,000,000. We have all the theories, we
24:39
have all the literature, we have everything like we had all,
24:42
every good book about Bitcoin has been written already, right?
24:47
Everything that there needs to be said about Bitcoin has been
24:50
said right now it is time for Bitcoin to prove itself as an
24:56
asset. And if we're right, if Sailor's
25:00
right, the world is going to fundamentally change completely
25:07
and it's going to be a world where you won't be able to
25:12
ignore Bitcoin for conservative or ideological reason reasons.
25:18
You're going to be forced to own Bitcoin or risk getting left
25:22
behind. It's like that.
25:24
So it's really black and white. I've always said the success of
25:27
Bitcoin is binary. It either goes up or goes to
25:31
zero. There is literally no in
25:32
between. Let's see what happens, man.
25:35
Let's see what happens. But that that's crazy that that
25:39
and you know what's interesting too, Opti to connect it with the
25:42
intro story. I actually got a text from a
25:46
friend of mine who works at I, I can't say the specific bank, but
25:50
like one of these big banks that you guys all know.
25:53
And he was like, Hey, Nico, look, we're launching a product
25:57
and it's a it's a Bitcoin based product, right?
25:59
It's like one of those like I bit type of things like covered
26:02
calls, whatever, stuff like that.
26:05
And this is a very conservative bank.
26:07
Like this is a bank that has never really like liked Bitcoin,
26:11
has never take a positive approach on Bitcoin and they're
26:14
coming out and they're launching products on that.
26:16
Do you think they're doing that out of the goodness of their
26:19
heart or because they've watched simply Bitcoin and they just all
26:22
of a sudden got orange built and they're like, Oh my God, yeah,
26:24
Separate money from state parole, Bitcoin or slavery.
26:27
Like, no, dude, they're looking, they're looking at it and
26:29
they're looking to make a buck. The same reason that the
26:31
Citibank, you know, representative showed up to
26:35
Bitcoin for corporations, like she showed up there because
26:39
Citibank sees an opportunity. And I'll tell you what guys, if
26:43
we're right about this stuff, I don't know.
26:46
We've been saying this for I've been saying this for six years.
26:48
So, so far we've been right. So far we've had a pretty effing
26:51
good track record on Bitcoin. But if we're right about this,
26:56
20 to 40% of the ultra high net worth population of the world is
27:06
going to be bitcoiners. That that percentage of the
27:11
world is the percentage of the world that has the most amount
27:15
of influence. They influence governments, they
27:20
influence societies. And think about that 20 to 40%
27:26
of those people in 1020 years are going to be ideological
27:31
bitcoiners. What does that tell you about
27:34
the future? Man, I'm, I'm honestly really,
27:37
really effing excited, right? I mean, if you just take a look
27:41
at, I think Trump, like kind of, you know, he did, I think he did
27:46
OK. I think he could have done
27:49
better. I think he did OK, though.
27:52
I think getting Ross freed, the, you know, the executive order,
27:57
strategic Bitcoin reserve, if clarity gets passed, I think the
28:00
genius act is a good thing. So I think he did good, but we
28:06
need more. We need to ask for more, right?
28:08
This was a good first step. It's a good first step, but we
28:12
need to get to a point where it doesn't matter whether it's a
28:16
Democrat or Republican, They're they're both Bitcoiners, right?
28:21
I don't, I don't like this partisan divide because it, it,
28:25
it essentially risks a, a, a huge pendulum shift And, and you
28:30
can like, you already know that the, the, the Republicans are
28:34
going to get smoked in the House and they might actually lose the
28:38
Senate too. So anyways man, update any more
28:43
thoughts before move on to the next segment.
28:47
No, not really. It's really the only thing I
28:50
would add is what the what the chat is saying.
28:52
It's where is it? We are right.
28:55
There is no if the only thing we don't know is the timing on
28:58
this. And I think Sailor Stretch
29:00
product is it's really, it's really, really, I hate using the
29:10
cliche iPhone moment, but the amount of capital that is coming
29:13
in to it, the amount of capital that's attracting, I think it's
29:17
just, it's really showing one thing, you know, Nika said, like
29:21
we've been right about everything.
29:22
I think the only thing that we overestimated as Bitcoiners as a
29:25
community is just the demand for Bitcoin and really the
29:29
resistance from people with capital looking at Bitcoin and,
29:33
and not really thinking from their perspective.
29:35
And now we're seeing that these products are coming out and
29:37
people are getting a lot more, I don't know use used to the idea
29:42
of Bitcoin, but once that capital does get attracted to
29:46
Bitcoin, once there's that demand that we all expect.
29:49
And it seems This is why I'm putting in the context of
29:51
Stretch and it seems to maybe be coming from Stretch and maybe
29:55
other products similar to that. It's going to get crazy like if
29:59
Sailor basically buys a billion dollars a week through the
30:02
Stretch product and I think that would probably increase with
30:04
more demand that unlimited buying pressure is going to be
30:10
there and that things are going to fundamentally change.
30:13
So that's the only thing I really want to add.
30:14
But on that note, guys, for today's show, I got a clip from
30:19
the Vanek CEO talking about the war, and we got some new numbers
30:23
about the war in the Middle East.
30:25
So it sounds like Larry Leopard is right and the big print is on
30:28
the horizon. I'm going to show you that.
30:30
And then Matt Hill should be here like literally right now.
30:34
So we started a little late. He should be here in like 2
30:36
minutes. Matt Hill is the founder and CEO
30:38
of Start Nine. They, they're all about
30:41
sovereign computing. So we're going to be talking
30:44
about that at this point. You know, first step is
30:47
obviously taking self custody of your coins.
30:50
Second step is running your own version of the Bitcoin software,
30:53
AK running, running your own node.
30:56
And start 9 has these amazing products where you could just
31:00
buy it outright. It's open source, you plug it
31:04
in, boom, you're running a Bitcoin node.
31:05
You can connect that with your whatever wallet you use, your
31:10
Electron wallet, your, you know, your Sparrow wallet, you know,
31:15
depending on what you like, right?
31:17
I'm old school. I, I really like the Electron
31:19
one. I, I, I, I Sparrow's cool.
31:21
I just, I just haven't been able to migrate.
31:25
Anyhow, let's start the show. We're going to be right back.
31:30
Today's episode is brought to you by Bitcoin Well Infinite.
31:34
If you're a serious Bitcoin buyer, you've probably hit the
31:37
same wall. Most platforms make you give up
31:39
custody just to play by the rules.
31:41
Bitcoin Well Infinite fixes that.
31:44
They're North America's only publicly traded, non custodial
31:48
OTC desk listed on the TSX Venture Exchange, which means
31:52
transparent operations and 0 counterparty risk.
31:56
You buy Bitcoin, you take immediate control period for
32:00
trades over $50,000, you get a dedicated executive Bitcoin
32:05
advisor, competitive spread starting at 1%, and immediate
32:09
delivery straight to your own wallet.
32:11
No custody risk, no withdrawal fees, just institutional grade
32:15
execution with full asset control.
32:18
If you want to buy Bitcoin the right way, book a free
32:21
consultation at bitcoinwell.com/OTC or e-mail
32:25
infinite@bitcoinwell.com. I want to give a shout out to
32:29
our partner stamp seed. Is your Bitcoin and cold storage
32:33
really secure? Are your seed phrases really
32:35
secure? Stamp seeds do it yourself kit
32:38
has everything you'll need for you to hammer your seed words
32:41
into commercial grade titanium plates instead of just writing
32:45
them down on paper. Paper is fragile.
32:48
Titanium plates are strong. Your words are actually stamped
32:52
into the titanium plate with this hammer and these letter
32:55
stamping tools. Once the words are in, they
32:58
aren't going anywhere. No risk of the plate breaking
33:02
apart and pieces falling everywhere.
33:04
Titanium stamp seeds will survive nearly triple the heat
33:08
produced by a house fire. They're also crush proof,
33:10
waterproof, non corrosive, and time proof.
33:14
And now you can customize your titanium seed plates.
33:18
You can upload your design or logo and they will laser engrave
33:22
it on the back of your seed plate, the opposite side of
33:25
where the words are. Stamp your seed on stamps and
33:29
use promo code simply to get 15% off anything on the stamp.
33:34
Se-ed.com store all. Right guys, we are back.
33:42
What's up Matt? Good to see you man.
33:44
It's been a minute. All right, let me let me go run
33:47
through the numbers real quick. Matt, we we have changed it up a
33:51
little bit. We we start the show live, then
33:53
you pop in we'll talk about a few things, but anyways, the
33:56
current Bitcoin price. Can you hear me?
33:59
Can you hear me? Oh, Matt.
34:01
All right, all right, The current Bitcoin.
34:04
Oh, all right, the current. Here, right now or no?
34:06
Should I? Yeah, yeah.
34:07
I mean, if you got other things to do, you can pop back in in 10
34:10
minutes. Whatever you want to do, man.
34:11
I'll. See you in 10.
34:12
All right, OK. All right.
34:14
All right guys, The current Bitcoin price is $66,900.
34:20
The discount from all time high is 47%.
34:23
The market cap is at 1.34 trillion and the block height is
34:27
943,527. So obviously, guys, we are all
34:35
totally aware at this point of what's going on in the Middle
34:39
East. And if you guys all watch the
34:43
primetime announcement the other night, from everything we know,
34:50
it's going to be, you know, two to three more weeks.
34:52
And then yesterday, I guess we went back in and started blowing
34:57
some other stuff up. the US is. And when it comes from a
35:03
bitcoins perspective, there's always the idea of, you know,
35:09
Fiat is the money of war, Bitcoin is the money of peace.
35:12
And I saw this interesting clip this morning.
35:15
It was on CNBC and it was the Vanek CEO and they're kind of
35:20
asking him what he currently think is thinks is going on.
35:24
And then I saw a lot of other Bitcoiners kind of mentioning
35:28
something very similar. So let's play the clip real
35:30
quick. And then I will, I think maybe
35:33
put some pieces together. And it might not be the most
35:36
favorable conversation, but this is the most latest news that we
35:40
have coming out of the Middle East, potentially the time frame
35:44
and how much money this is going to cost, just to put it bluntly.
35:48
And shortly, it seems like the big print is coming.
35:51
It's on the horizon, guys. And I know there's a lot of
35:53
friction and there's a lot, a lot of things that could
35:56
potentially push back on that. But let's watch this clip and
36:00
then I'll, you know, add a little more details, a little
36:03
more spice to this conversation. Here's the Vanek CEO and.
36:07
Bitcoin in particular, because it's far and away the biggest
36:09
one out there. There are now retail avenues,
36:13
institutional avenues by which you can use exchange traded
36:15
products. You don't have to have a digital
36:17
wallet yourself. What exactly does that kind of
36:20
demand profile look like and how has it changed, say, since the
36:25
beginning of the war to where we are now?
36:27
Has it materially been affected by the kind of price volatility
36:30
that we've seen? The adoption continues to grow.
36:34
And the best leading indicator is the surveys, whether you ask
36:37
retail investors or institutional investors, do you
36:40
plan to allocate more to this asset class in the future?
36:43
The answer is yes. And we're seeing that at the
36:45
sovereign level where the first central bank has just bought
36:48
Bitcoin for its foreign exchange reserves.
36:51
We're seeing that obviously across Wall Street, you know,
36:55
whether it's Morgan Stanley filing for a Bitcoin ETF and the
36:58
retail investor, especially outside the US, you know,
37:01
continues to allocate. So at some point the bill for
37:05
this war will come due and the fiscal and monetary largesse in
37:10
G7 will become dominant again from a narrative perspective.
37:16
Now, I really want to emphasize just that one quote.
37:19
At a certain point, the bill for this war will come through and
37:24
we will start to see, depending on how long it is prolonged, how
37:28
long this is going to happen for.
37:30
There is a cost to this. Now, we also saw this get
37:34
tweeted yesterday. Oops.
37:36
Wrong one, guys. He'll be back.
37:42
He'll be back. Hold on, guys.
37:45
Oh, here we go. Wrong one.
37:47
We're on the wrong one. OK, so we saw this.
37:51
Apparently it reported from Reuters.
37:54
Trump unveils $1.5 trillion defense budget, the largest
37:58
yearly U.S. military spending increase since World War 2.
38:02
Obviously, from a Bitcoin's perspective, I think Samson and
38:05
Mao kind of summed this up perfectly.
38:06
War and money are inextricably linked.
38:09
And then I saw this from Larry Leopard, and this charge is, I
38:16
think it really puts everything into context here, Larry Tweet.
38:20
As my book details, nearly every major inflation in the US
38:23
history came from wartime spending starting in 1776 and
38:26
1812. World War One doubled the price
38:29
level, as did World War 2. The only exception was 2020,
38:32
which involved warlike spending. So what comes next?
38:36
How are we going to pay for this?
38:40
It is the big print. And you can see here US defense
38:42
spending total National Defense in billions.
38:45
As you can see, yes, it's been slowly increasing, but next
38:50
year's defense spending is going to dwarf everything before
38:55
literally adding a 50% increase in spending.
38:58
And obviously I know some of you guys in the chat are maybe more
39:03
Trump favorable. We got we got a lot of Flack for
39:06
being anti war on this show, but as we can see that I still.
39:11
Stand. On the I agree, I agree there's
39:14
still, there's still this idea the big print is coming.
39:18
We just don't know exactly where it's coming from.
39:20
If you guys have been following along with what's going on with
39:22
the Fed, we're seeing literally record-breaking Treasury
39:26
buybacks right now. You could argue that we are
39:29
already in a QE, not QE environment, but it might be a
39:33
little different than it was before.
39:35
It's not going to be helicopter money like we saw in 2020.
39:39
We are just saying that the amount of money that they're
39:41
going to be spending is going to start dwarfing the amount of
39:45
money that we've spent in the past.
39:48
That's saying he's just waiting I'm.
39:51
I'm here. Oh, he's here.
39:52
Oh, OK. Oh, oh, I don't know.
39:54
What? You wanted me?
39:55
I came in. I thought you said you'd come
39:57
back. I thought you said you'd come
39:58
back. Waiting for.
40:01
A cue of some kind I. Got Matt.
40:02
Matt Hill is here, ladies and gentlemen, founder, CEO of Start
40:06
9. You see, one of the things that
40:08
we have back here on this TV is a Start 9 logo.
40:11
I'll point it out when it pops up.
40:13
But anyways, super happy to have Matt on the show and Start 9 has
40:20
a major announcement in terms of a product that they've been
40:25
working on for for a period of time now.
40:30
There it is. See, Matt, look at that.
40:34
And you guys are releasing a router, which is a big deal.
40:39
So let's talk about that. Matt, welcome to the show.
40:43
Thanks. For having me back, Yeah, let's
40:46
talk about it. So the big, big elephant in the
40:50
room for start 9 has been start OSO 4 off.
40:53
That is something we kicked off 3 years ago in March of 2023,
41:01
and we have been working on it for three years.
41:05
We thought it was going to take like a year to a year and a
41:07
half. So we were exactly double wrong.
41:10
And people have been very patient with us along the way.
41:14
But we finally wrapped it up and went into public beta 2 days
41:17
ago. And we'll be iterating that very
41:19
quickly now. But public beta is considered
41:22
stable and usable and we are encouraging people to update.
41:26
We don't promise that it's bug free, but it is absolutely
41:28
stable and ready for production use case.
41:31
What also happened during that time is what you're showing on
41:33
the screen here is the router caught up to start OSO 4 O
41:38
because we were working on it in parallel, we expected O4-O to be
41:41
done probably a year before the router was.
41:44
But O 4 O took a lot longer than expected and the router actually
41:48
went faster than expected. And so they're coming out at the
41:50
same time. So Start 9 is as of now
41:55
releasing Start OSO 4 O and the RISC 5 router.
41:59
So quick highlights of this router.
42:02
It is based on RISC 5 architecture.
42:05
It is as open as a computing device can be in this world.
42:11
It has fully open software stack from the firmware.
42:16
The board schematics are published on GitHub.
42:19
The firmware itself is open source.
42:22
The operating system is open source and so this is a fully
42:27
open router based on open WRT, which is a maximally powerful
42:34
open source router operating system that we then extended
42:38
wrapped in order to make it actually usable.
42:40
Because open WRT is notoriously difficult for anyone, even
42:45
network engineers, to use successfully.
42:48
But it affords all the primitives that are necessary to
42:51
do anything you could possibly want to with a network.
42:55
So we simply created some abstractions on top of open WRT
42:59
that make it actually accessible and usable to a normal person.
43:03
I feel confident in saying that this router is the best router
43:08
in the world, and that is with vetting quite a few, using many
43:12
more. And I think that we have the
43:15
most powerful, most user friendly, most accessible, most
43:18
open and secure router on planet earth.
43:21
And it is entirely open source, so you don't need to buy
43:23
anything from us. You can simply grab your old
43:26
router. So long as it is compatible and
43:28
capable of running open WRT. You can flash it with start WRT
43:32
and be up and running with the best router in the world for
43:34
absolute free. That man, that's incredibly
43:38
exciting at Matt. I think we've been talking about
43:40
this moment for years now, so it's really cool to, to to see
43:44
it build up to this point. Guys for for anyone who doesn't
43:49
know, you guys know that not only am IA huge fan of start 9,
43:52
but we're big advocates of running your own node here at
43:57
simply Bitcoin. If you don't run your own node,
43:59
you don't you don't run your own version of the Bitcoin software.
44:02
So I remember asking Matt this question many years ago when I,
44:06
when I bought the Start 9 Pure, which I know is on a clearance
44:09
sale right now on, on start9.com.
44:12
I and I, and I got one of the 1st 100 editions with the, with
44:15
the custom Madex packaging and everything.
44:18
And I got all giddy and stuff. But I, I remember having this
44:22
conversation with Matt. I was like, look like if you
44:26
think about a note, it's like this box where it's like
44:29
literally, you know, plugged into your router kind of like on
44:32
the side of it. And it's just kind of like this
44:34
like little box and it's just this computer.
44:37
And then I remember talking to you, Matt.
44:39
I was like, Matt, like why can't the router in the node be the
44:43
same thing? And then you're like, yeah,
44:47
Niko, I'm working on it. And this is this is like a multi
44:51
year type of conversation. And now I've gotten to this
44:54
point where start 9, you guys have released the first easy to
44:59
install open source router in the world.
45:02
Is that would that be correct to say that?
45:06
I don't think it's the first open source router.
45:08
I believe it is the first RISC 5 router and RISC 5 for those who
45:14
don't know. Is it alternate instruction set
45:16
for low level computing operations?
45:19
So the traditional ones are X86, also known as AMD 64, and then a
45:25
ARCH 64, also known as ARM. Those are the two instruction
45:29
sets that almost every computer on the planet run.
45:31
But RISC 5 is a new instruction set that's going to give these
45:35
old boys a run for their money. And it is sort of inherently
45:39
open source. You can do closed source things
45:41
on RISC 5, but the the ethos of the RISC 5 ecosystem as well as
45:45
most of the the products that exist are open source and it is
45:49
customary to even publish the schematics for the boards
45:52
online. And so we're talking about open
45:54
source hardware here, not just an open source operating system
45:57
and open source firmware as well.
45:59
There's a couple caveats and these are listed on the router
46:02
presale site, which is that there is no such thing as a
46:06
Wi-Fi 5 or Wi-Fi 6 module that is fully open source, doesn't
46:12
exist in the world. So you don't have to use Wi-Fi
46:16
with this router. You could just use Ethernet,
46:18
right? And that would exclude the Wi-Fi
46:20
card. But if you want Wi-Fi, there are
46:24
some closed source blobs in the Wi-Fi firmware and there's no
46:26
way around that. So we do not claim that our our
46:29
Wi-Fi router is fully open source.
46:32
It is as open source as a Wi-Fi router could possibly be in this
46:36
world. It is the most open source
46:38
router in the world. Let's peel back the onion
46:42
layers. No pun intended here, right?
46:46
Why is that so important? Because I think that most people
46:50
that are watching us right now, first of all, we've run polls.
46:53
Opti, why don't you run a poll right now?
46:54
How many people are running notes?
46:56
Let's run that poll. When we normally run that poll,
46:59
Matt, we get a the majority are not running Bitcoin notes.
47:04
And then the conversation about, you know, sovereignty, right,
47:12
which is not only about having Bitcoin in self custody and this
47:15
that's part of the sovereignty aspect, but it's also running
47:19
your own version of Bitcoin software.
47:20
So you don't have to trust anybody else.
47:23
The router falls into that stack, right?
47:26
And could you talk a little bit about how current mainstream
47:31
routers are right now in terms of what, what type of code are
47:35
they running behind the scenes that no one is really looking
47:39
and paying attention to? Why is it so important to run an
47:43
open source soft, an open source router?
47:46
Why is that important, Matt? So you're right, this is 1
47:51
component, right? The router is 1 component of a
47:54
computing infrastructure. We started with the server
48:00
because the server is the brain of computing infrastructure,
48:03
right? It's where all data are
48:04
processed and stored. And the vast majority of people
48:07
in this world are not using their own servers to store and
48:11
process data. They're using third party clouds
48:13
for everything from Bitcoin nodes to their messaging and
48:17
their data storage. And so our goal, broadly
48:22
speaking, is to facilitate the emergence of a decentralized
48:28
architecture for personal computing where people are
48:33
utilizing client devices such as cell phones, laptops,
48:37
smartwatches, you name it, that are connecting over private
48:42
networks to personal servers that are running open source
48:46
software that stores and processes all the data
48:49
associated with their lives. Effectively reproducing the
48:52
current computing model with no loss of convenience or security.
48:57
With a totally self hosted, private, secure and sovereign
49:00
model where only the things that you explicitly choose to share
49:05
with anyone and for any reason get shared.
49:07
Everything else is inherently private and secure and stored on
49:10
physical hardware that you personally control for yourself,
49:14
your family or your business. We call this sovereign
49:16
computing. In order to facilitate the
49:19
emergence of sovereign computing, we had to start with
49:21
the servers, the biggest piece of the puzzle that has been
49:24
inaccessible to people for many, many years.
49:28
We have with start OSO 4 O now I think achieved a level of
49:33
reliability and user experience that will make running a
49:38
personal server accessible to 70% of the computing literate
49:42
population, which we consider to be a huge milestone.
49:46
It is now possible. Not only possible, but it is
49:48
reasonable for you, anyone watching this, anyone who
49:51
basically knows how to navigate a computer to run your own
49:54
server until every SAS provider and 3rd party intermediary and
49:57
custodian that you have ever done business with that is
49:59
currently acting as a surveillance deputy of the state
50:02
to take a fucking hike. It is now possible beyond just
50:06
the server. We have now the router, OK,
50:09
Because the router is the traffic controller, right?
50:11
The router is what decides what devices get to talk to other
50:15
devices, what packets leave your house and hit the Internet and
50:20
what packets from the Internet can enter your house.
50:22
The router is the traffic controller, the gateway and the
50:25
guardian of your home network. And as we introduce more and
50:29
more IoT devices, smart TV's, doorbells, etcetera, and as we
50:32
introduce AI powered devices, the access to your devices is
50:38
increasingly important, right? We don't want a scenario where
50:42
lockdowns take on a whole new meaning, right?
50:44
You can imagine a pandemic where you're locked to your house, but
50:48
this time you're physically locked in, right?
50:50
Like your doors will not open and if you leave, everyone
50:53
knows, etcetera, right? Like we are entering an era
50:56
where control over information and IoT devices using artificial
51:01
intelligence can and will unleash the largest dystopian
51:06
slave based era of human history unless we are able to utilize
51:11
our computing devices without the intermediation of
51:13
custodianship of these big tech giants and governments.
51:17
So the router is an essential part of the computing paradigm.
51:22
And for the last five years, our customers and community members
51:25
have been asking us what router they should use to remain
51:29
private and secure in their networks, especially from their
51:32
ISPs and all the websites and everything that they visit from
51:37
their home. And we have not been able to
51:39
give them a really good recommendation because every
51:42
router that has the requisite power, privacy and security that
51:48
they would want is basically too difficult to use.
51:51
It's too technical. And the routers that are easy
51:54
enough to use are usually the ones provided by your ISP,
51:58
right? You sign up for Internet, they
52:00
drop a router off at your house, they plug it in, they show you
52:03
how to set the network name so that it can be something funny.
52:05
And then you can set your own passwords that can be something
52:07
you remember and give out to guess.
52:09
And that's about the extent of your interaction with your
52:11
router is you just accept this device some mega company dropped
52:16
off at your house. You name your ID, some your
52:18
SSID, something, set a password and then boom, Internet happens
52:22
and you just sort of move on with your life.
52:23
What you haven't realized is that that device that got
52:26
dropped off at your house is not your device.
52:28
Every single thing that you do in your home now, every button
52:33
you push that goes to any other device in the home or outside
52:36
the home, is 100% visible and intermediated by your ISP.
52:40
They have invaded your home in the most inappropriate way
52:44
possible. And you did this passively
52:46
because 1. You didn't think about it or
52:48
two, you accepted that there was no other way to do it.
52:50
The only way to reject this is to reject their router, to tell
52:54
them that you don't want their router, that you will provide
52:57
your own. In this case, you have to go to
52:59
the secondary market and shop for a router.
53:01
Most people stop there because the choices are, there's
53:04
enormous amounts of choices. And like I said, the really good
53:06
ones are very, very difficult to understand and use.
53:10
So we set about solving this problem.
53:12
I didn't want to build a router. I wanted to recommend a router
53:14
to people, but we could not find a good one.
53:16
We couldn't find one that properly balanced power with
53:20
ease of use. So we built it.
53:22
We have the most powerful router in the world and it is insanely
53:25
easy to use for even an average person.
53:28
And it's not on the shelf yet, but it will be in the next, you
53:31
know, few weeks. Man, that's first of all, it's
53:35
incredibly exciting and necessary, right?
53:41
You said specifically, you know, you didn't want to do this.
53:45
You felt like you had a necessity to do this.
53:47
Where does the Bitcoin node fall into this map?
53:51
Does it have it built in or is the pure something that you plug
53:55
into the router itself? So we back you had mentioned
53:59
earlier when when we were first talking about this a few years
54:01
ago, there was an idea that we would have these be the same
54:06
device that we would have the server and the router be one in
54:10
the same, right? Basically a server that can
54:12
perform routing functions. And it very quickly as we set
54:16
about building out the server, we realized that this this was
54:19
not the correct approach. It's sort of like putting a
54:21
microwave in your refrigerator because every kitchen needs
54:24
both, right? Or something like that.
54:25
So, you know, different appliances have different
54:28
purposes and division of responsibility.
54:32
Modularity is the proper approach to engineering.
54:35
You don't just add more and more functionality to 1 device.
54:39
And the, the straw that broke the camel's back on this
54:41
decision was that we realized people are going to have
54:45
multiple servers, right? You should have multiple servers
54:48
because you want to divide what the purpose of each of those
54:51
servers is. Like 1 server is handling, you
54:53
know, your Bitcoin and lightning node.
54:54
And then you have a different server which is handling your
54:56
family photos and data and messaging.
54:58
Then maybe a third one for experimentation.
55:00
You don't want those to be the same server.
55:02
So if you have 3 servers, they all need a router.
55:05
But if all three servers is a router, now you have 3 routers
55:07
and they're all competing for who does the traffic
55:09
controlling. So it really didn't make sense
55:10
to make these the same one in the same, right?
55:13
You have potentially many servers, but you also have many
55:16
other devices on your LAN. But you don't necessarily want
55:20
your router to be your server because what happens if you have
55:24
to restart your server? Now your Internet is out, right?
55:28
You, you can't access the Internet from your phone or
55:30
laptop because your server is restarting and your server is
55:33
your router. So for those reasons and more,
55:35
it became very clear to us that the router is a dedicated device
55:40
whose responsibility is the privacy and security of the
55:44
local area network and the gateway to the Internet.
55:47
That is the purpose of a router. And so we just set about
55:50
building the best router possible.
55:51
Has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It has nothing to do with this
55:55
space. It's just a router.
55:57
But routers are really, really cool and we're going to try to
56:01
make them make people aware of that because you can do some
56:05
really advanced, fun, secure privacy things with this router
56:11
that you probably didn't imagine you would be able to do.
56:13
Now the server sits behind this thing and does whatever you want
56:18
it to do, which you know on this show.
56:19
What a lot of people would want to do hopefully is run a Bitcoin
56:22
node, which made easier than ever with O4-O.
56:25
Absolutely a huge fan of of the. I don't have a technical
56:29
background. Huge fan of the Start 9
56:33
operating system and you know the really cool things you could
56:36
do, you could download a multitude of apps, not just the
56:40
the Bitcoin software that you want to run, you know, privacy
56:44
private messaging app. It's so so so so so so cool.
56:49
One of my favorite things is when I'm traveling abroad, like
56:52
not only does my Bitcoin wallet connect with my Start 9 node at
56:56
home, but I just like logging into it remotely over Tor.
57:00
It just I don't know. I, I, I, I feel like a
57:02
cypherpunk, even though I don't really have, you know, the, the
57:08
the tech background, but I sure do feel like it when I'm
57:12
connecting to my start nine start nine note over Tor.
57:16
So it's really cool guys. There's a link in the
57:19
description like in every other other show and Matt's been a a
57:24
great friend of the show for many, many years now and really
57:27
exciting to hear. You know the the, the server
57:30
launch, I mean the router launch.
57:34
I have more info here. I'm going to drop it in the
57:36
chat. You guys could go check it out
57:38
on Solo Satoshi. There's an article on it and you
57:42
guys could you guys could check it out.
57:47
Someone asked the question but someone asked a question. 2
57:49
questions asked. Let me start with this one.
57:51
Buck 52,000 said Does the router software have AVPN in it?
57:58
And then some. So the the router has first
58:03
class support for wireguard VPNs, but not just clients, also
58:07
servers and multiple of them right?
58:10
So you can set up as many VPN clients on the router as you
58:16
want simply by clicking add client and pasting or uploading
58:21
the Wireguard config file that is given to you by your VPN
58:25
provider. So Proton VPN, MOBA VPN, you
58:28
name it, right, you just paste it in and boom, now you're you
58:31
have that capability on the router.
58:34
You can then add another Wireguard VPN and actually chain
58:39
it to the first one and Start WRT will actually show you a
58:43
chain visually in a graph. So for example, let's say you
58:50
want all of your home's traffic to go out through your Molvad
58:54
VPN, right? You would add the Molvad VPN to
58:59
the Start 9 router and then select which profiles you want
59:03
to use it. In this case, you would select
59:05
them all. So that way everyone who's on
59:06
your in your home, every request they make to the Internet goes
59:09
out through this VPN. But now you say you have some
59:12
guests coming over or whatever, and you say, OK, anyone who's
59:18
using this profile, I actually want their traffic to go out
59:21
through a chain VPN structure. I want the request to hit Mobad
59:25
VPN, then to hit Proton VPN, then to hit the Internet.
59:29
And you could do this indefinitely.
59:30
You could put 7 VPNs in a chain. Your Internet traffic would slow
59:34
down considerably of course, but unraveling that would be nearly
59:38
impossible for anyone. So you know, our basic stance is
59:41
as follows. If you need extreme privacy,
59:44
like privacy from the state, in most cases all you need are two
59:50
VPNs in competing jurisdictions. Non cooperative jurisdictions is
59:55
actually the correct word. So if you get AVPN in one
59:58
country and AVPN in another country, and then you chain them
1:00:01
together, it would require the cooperation of both states.
1:00:08
Forcing both companies that provide the VPN service to
1:00:12
collaborate with each other in order to unravel your Internet
1:00:17
activity. So in most cases you only need
1:00:19
2. So long as they're in competing
1:00:21
jurisdictions or non cooperative jurisdictions.
1:00:24
You could change as many as you want together.
1:00:26
That's for outbound VPNs. For inbound VPNs, you can add as
1:00:28
many VPN servers to the router as you want such that you could
1:00:33
access your LAN and control your home devices remotely.
1:00:36
But you could also allow friends and family to access your land
1:00:38
remotely to control specific devices, right?
1:00:41
So I could, you know, give one person in my family access to my
1:00:46
home so that they could, you know, drive the robot around and
1:00:48
another person access to my home just so they could use my
1:00:50
Bitcoin node. And then I get access to my home
1:00:53
remotely so that I can do everything no matter where I am
1:00:55
in the world. And these are all different VPN
1:00:58
servers assigned to different people.
1:00:59
I know that sounds technical, but once you're in the UI, all
1:01:03
of these things are buttons and they're very, very clear.
1:01:06
So again, very advanced networking capabilities made
1:01:11
very simple, which is just not present in any other routers.
1:01:15
That's awesome, man. Very, very cool.
1:01:17
I we have some more questions. We're going to address them
1:01:19
right after the break. We're going to be right back in
1:01:22
just a little bit. Here we go.
1:01:26
I want to give a shout out to our partner Leaden, the leader
1:01:29
in Bitcoin back loans. Leaden lets you unlock the
1:01:31
liquidity in your Bitcoin without ever having to sell it.
1:01:34
Since 2018, they've issued over $10 billion in loans to more
1:01:39
than 10,000 customers worldwide. I love these guys and not only
1:01:43
do you have an account with them, I also have a loan.
1:01:46
And here's what really sets them apart.
1:01:48
There are no monthly payments and you can pay back the loan at
1:01:51
any time. Once you send your Bitcoin as
1:01:54
collateral, you can have cash in your account within 24 hours.
1:01:58
Lennon has over 1005 star customer reviews and they've
1:02:02
never lost a single dollar or single sat of customer funds.
1:02:06
So if you want to tap into the wealth of your Bitcoin without
1:02:09
having to sell it, head over to learn dot leaden dot IO slash
1:02:14
simply today and you'll get .25% off your first loan.
1:02:19
I want to give a shout out to our partnersat123.com.
1:02:23
Sovereignty isn't just about your money, it's about your
1:02:25
communications too. When the grid goes down, most
1:02:28
people go dark. Cell towers fail in hurricanes,
1:02:31
cyber attacks and blackouts. The satellite phones, they don't
1:02:34
rely on local infrastructure, already has 77 satellites in
1:02:38
orbit, giving you a Direct Line anywhere in the US, even
1:02:41
offshore. If you hold your own Bitcoin
1:02:44
keys, you should hold your own commstoosat123.com also has
1:02:48
everything you need to start building your Bitcoin Citadel
1:02:51
Starling, battery backups, Faraday bags to protect your
1:02:55
hardware wallets and much much more.
1:02:57
It's a one stop shop for anyone serious about resilience and off
1:03:01
grid independence. Stay connected, stay
1:03:03
independent, stay sovereign. Go to SAT One 123.com/simply
1:03:08
today and use promo code simply to get 15% off anything on the
1:03:13
store. I want to give a shout out to
1:03:14
our partner Bit Key. If you already self custody your
1:03:17
Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets by now.
1:03:20
Complex setups, clumsy interfaces and a seed phrase
1:03:24
that can be lost, stolen or forgotten.
1:03:26
Bit Key fixes that. Bit Key is a multi sig hardware
1:03:30
wallet built by the team behind Square and Cash Out.
1:03:33
It packs a cryptographic recovery system and built in
1:03:37
inheritance feature into an intuitive easy to use wallet
1:03:40
with no seed phrase to sweat over.
1:03:43
It's simple secure self custody without the stress time names
1:03:47
bitkey one of the best inventions of 2024.
1:03:50
Get 20% off at bitkey dot world. That's BITKEY dot world with the
1:03:57
code. Simply, I want to give a shout
1:04:02
out to our partner Hive Digital Technologies.
1:04:05
Fueled by clean energy, Hive has quadrupled its global Bitcoin
1:04:10
mining footprint and channels that same scale into high
1:04:14
performance compute, where their AI cloud is now ranked number
1:04:18
one in the world for network performance.
1:04:20
At Hive, you've got dual engines, Bitcoin and AI humming,
1:04:25
roaring, accelerating and unison.
1:04:27
They're lean and mean. They're green and clean and
1:04:30
they're rewriting the playbook on sustainable digital
1:04:33
infrastructure. You can catch the latest buzz at
1:04:36
Hive Digital Tech or at Hive digitaltech.com.
1:04:44
All right, everybody, we are back.
1:04:46
And of course, you got the one the only Matt Hill joining us on
1:04:50
today. Let's go through some more of
1:04:53
these questions. Second question, is Wireguard
1:04:56
compatible? I don't know what that means,
1:04:58
Matt. He he answered that.
1:04:59
He answered that. Next 1 is when did I ask that?
1:05:04
I thought you asked about the VPNs in VPN.
1:05:07
Yeah. Oh, so it was like killed two
1:05:09
birds with one stone. Got it, got it, I got it.
1:05:10
I don't even know what wireguard is, but that's a good question.
1:05:14
Down Under Blues Dash F3T says does the ability of remoting and
1:05:22
make it vulnerable to hacks. Only if you're vulnerable to
1:05:26
hacks, which is what all hacks are, right?
1:05:28
All hacks are social engineering.
1:05:30
If you don't keep your passwords and access control credentials
1:05:34
safe, you are vulnerable to hacks.
1:05:37
Period. Rather, that's remoting into
1:05:38
your home through the Start 9 router or just signing into X,
1:05:42
right? So keep yourself safe and you're
1:05:43
fine. Next question we got from GFY
1:05:49
custom software or DDWRT. Start, we call it.
1:05:54
Start WRT is the name of our operating system and it's based
1:05:58
on Open WRT. So Start WRT is an extension of
1:06:01
Open WRT. We have not changed anything.
1:06:03
In fact, we have explicit buttons in the UI that enable
1:06:07
you to launch the LUCI GUI that comes stock with Open WRT, in
1:06:12
case you want to do something extremely advanced that we chose
1:06:16
not to make accessible through our own GUI.
1:06:19
And those changes will be, as best as they can be, reflected
1:06:22
through the Start WRT GUI. So you can think of Start WRT as
1:06:27
a user can, you know, as a convenient coherent wrapper
1:06:33
around Open WRT, which is again infinitely powerful but
1:06:37
notoriously difficult to use. So the next question is, can
1:06:45
Matt come to my house and set me up?
1:06:49
That's not a serious question. Virtually sure.
1:06:55
They do offer that, by the way, on the Start 9.com website.
1:06:59
Next question, Let me see. I wish, I wish I could heard
1:07:06
what what Matt was saying about the VPNs.
1:07:09
Just dude, it's, it's DVR. You can, you could, you can go
1:07:12
back. I think that's all the
1:07:14
questions. Matt, thank you so much for
1:07:16
joining me on today's show. Always learn something when you
1:07:21
come on. Congratulations with the launch
1:07:24
of the router and dude. Wait, when, when is the router
1:07:28
live? Like how?
1:07:29
How can people go check it? Check out?
1:07:30
You know, I 'cause I'm looking at the Star Night website, I
1:07:32
can't find it over there. So what?
1:07:34
What? Because we haven't actually
1:07:35
launched it. So OK, like it it works.
1:07:39
I'm using the router in my house.
1:07:41
It works, but we haven't we haven't shipped devices yet or
1:07:45
released the OS software yet. We want to make sure it's really
1:07:50
good. It is at an advanced stage at
1:07:52
this point and we have the presale open.
1:07:55
So if you go to router.start9.com, you will see
1:08:00
the presale page. We are taking orders at the
1:08:03
moment in Bitcoin only. We're not accepting any Fiat for
1:08:08
the router at this time, Bitcoin or Lightning payments only.
1:08:12
And you will be the first to get the device.
1:08:14
We expect them to ship this summer.
1:08:16
So I. Don't know.
1:08:18
July, June, July, but no later than that.
1:08:21
Matt, another question for you Francisco is asking, does Start
1:08:27
9 have a Volvo and disclosure program?
1:08:30
Would love to help out how I can.
1:08:33
I mean our we have an e-mail address for for security
1:08:37
vulnerabilities if someone discovers 1.
1:08:39
So dev at start9.com is the correct e-mail to use if you
1:08:44
discover vulnerability of any kind and it needs private
1:08:47
disclosure. Otherwise, if it's a, you know,
1:08:51
non serious vulnerability, something that wouldn't, you
1:08:54
know, be devastating or largely affecting lots of users, you can
1:08:57
just create a GitHub issue for it.
1:09:00
Awesome. All right, everybody, before we
1:09:01
wrap the show, Matt, thank you so much for joining us.
1:09:04
I do want to give a shout out to our sponsor, the Bitcoin
1:09:08
conference. Bitcoin 2026 is coming up in Las
1:09:10
Vegas, NV, April 27th through the 29th at the Venetian Hotel.
1:09:14
You're not going to want to miss it.
1:09:15
This is the biggest Bitcoin conference of the year.
1:09:18
Again, Bitcoin 2026 in Las Vegas, NV, April 27th through
1:09:22
the 29th. It's this month.
1:09:24
Get your tickets quickly. Ladies and gentlemen, Matt Hill,
1:09:27
thank you so much for joining us today on Simply Bitcoin Live.
1:09:30
We appreciate it. Thanks.
1:09:33
For having me on. All right, all right, everybody
1:09:34
enjoy the weekend. What's the happy Easter, right?
1:09:38
Yeah, Happy Easter, Happy Easter.
1:09:40
All right, everybody, see you guys later.
1:09:43
Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
1:09:46
Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
1:09:49
independence.