Latest / Brian Thomas / IHeartMedia Aviation Expert Jay Ratliff

Transcript

IHeartMedia Aviation Expert Jay Ratliff · Brian Thomas

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  Speaker 1: KRC the talk station 830.
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  Speaker 2: 55 KRC the talk station always extra special Thursday Friday
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  Speaker 2: Eve because we have to hear from iHeartMedia aviation expert
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  Speaker 2: Jay Ratliff I really appreciate you being on the phone
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  Speaker 2: Jay and on the show on Thursdays topics can be
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  Speaker 2: light but of course with tomorrow the 25th anniversary of
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  Speaker 2: an event that I think everyone who was aware of
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  Speaker 2: it when it happened feels like it literally was yesterday
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  Speaker 2: 9-11 um Less than a fun and games topic this morning.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think I ever recall talking with you
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  Speaker 2: about where you were on 9-11. So I kind of
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  Speaker 2: just want to hit the ground running with that one, Jay,
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  Speaker 2: since you had such a storied career in aviation.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The Northwest Airlines at the time. And leading up to then,
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  Speaker 1: we were getting monthly briefings from the FAA and the
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  Speaker 1: FBI about the Osama bin Laden planning some sort of
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  Speaker 1: a spectacular attack. And it had elevated to the extent,
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  Speaker 1: from an intelligence standpoint, that it was beyond a credible threat.
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  Speaker 1: So we were worried about surface-to-air missiles. We were concerned
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  Speaker 1: about checked luggage, which domestically wasn't being screened. Literally, it
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  Speaker 1: went from the counter to the tug to the plane.
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  Speaker 1: And we thought, okay, that might be compromised. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we were just waiting. And then, of course, when The
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  Speaker 1: attacks happened when the second plane hit. We knew we
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  Speaker 1: were under attack. We knew it was bin Laden, and
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  Speaker 1: we knew more planes were probably involved. And that's why,
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  Speaker 1: to me, one of the many heroes that we had
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  Speaker 1: that day, and we had so many, but in aviation,
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  Speaker 1: certainly the 33 crew members that we lost on the
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  Speaker 1: four flights, but also in aviation was Ben Sliney. Ben
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  Speaker 1: was the operations manager of the FAA that was in
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  Speaker 1: charge at the top that made the call, look, we
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  Speaker 1: have 4,200 airplanes in the sky. We've got them all now.
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  Speaker 3: Now, the issue.
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  Speaker 1: Was that had never been thought of. There was no plan.
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  Speaker 1: There was no procedures, nothing other than each air traffic controller,
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  Speaker 1: these planes within your control, get them on the ground now.
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  Speaker 1: That meant any plane in the air was a possible threat.
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  Speaker 1: And it was the only way to deal with what
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  Speaker 1: was going on. And Brian, the thing about that, Ben
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  Speaker 1: Sliney made this incredible gutsy call on his first day
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  Speaker 1: on the job.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Baptism by fire much?
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  Speaker 3: Whoa.
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  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, we had the right guy at the right.
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  Speaker 1: He was very intelligent. He had been an air traffic
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  Speaker 1: controller before. He was a lawyer, so he had that
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  Speaker 1: brain process from a, okay, let's work through this issue.
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  Speaker 1: And he did a great job. And once every plane
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  Speaker 1: was on the ground, I think they did that in
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  Speaker 1: 90 minutes. It was unreal. But once it was done,
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  Speaker 1: we could identify the few airplanes that remained, including United 93,
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  Speaker 1: that gave us at least the opportunity to initially dispatch
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  Speaker 1: a military intercept. So, yeah, that was just a horrific day. And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have any planes flying for like,
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  Speaker 1: I think, three or four days after that. And to
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  Speaker 1: walk anywhere that day and the days after, for me,
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  Speaker 1: you'd look up and see no airplane anywhere.
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  Speaker 3: Other than an occasional military aircraft.
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  Speaker 1: So I remember thinking how depressing it was that something
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  Speaker 1: that was near and dear to my heart, as far
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  Speaker 1: as my love of aviation, was actually used as an
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  Speaker 1: instrument of terror. We had never considered airplanes being used
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  Speaker 1: as a missile, ever. Airline crews were taught bank teller mentality.
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  Speaker 1: You talk with the hijackers, you do what they want,
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  Speaker 1: you fly where they want, you land where they want.
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  Speaker 1: You do exactly what you're told. Everybody from the security
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  Speaker 1: checkpoint to the people on board the airplane were following
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  Speaker 1: established protocol. There was no breakdown in security. There was
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  Speaker 1: no breakdown in procedure on the flights. Everybody was doing
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  Speaker 1: what they were trained to do. And, yeah, it was just,
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  Speaker 1: you know. And I also thought at that time, Brian, that, okay,
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  Speaker 1: that's the new norm. We're going to start having shopping
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  Speaker 1: malls attacked, bus stations attacked. We're going to be like
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  Speaker 1: a lot of these other places in the world. And
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  Speaker 1: had you told me back then that 25 years would pass,
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  Speaker 1: absent of any of those things, I wouldn't have believed it.
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  Speaker 1: But it's really a testament to a lot of the
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  Speaker 1: men and women behind the scenes that we know nothing about.
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  Speaker 3: They continue to.
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  Speaker 1: Thwart every other type of attack.
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  Speaker 3: That is put against this country. Because they're active. They're ongoing.
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  Speaker 3: You and I know that.
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  Speaker 1: And they're doing a great job of keeping us safe. But, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's a day I'll never, ever, ever forget. If you've
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  Speaker 1: ever seen that documentary from the two French brothers that
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  Speaker 1: were actually doing a summer intern report type thing at
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  Speaker 1: one of the fire stations in downtown New York, it
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  Speaker 1: is one of the most riveting documentaries of that because
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  Speaker 1: it was real time as it was happening before, during,
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  Speaker 1: and after. And I've never seen anything like it.
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  Speaker 2: Jay Ratliff, we will continue this discussion, remembering 9-11, which, again,
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  Speaker 2: the anniversary 25th is tomorrow, believe it or not. It's
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: 835 right now. We've got more, and we'll find out
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  Speaker 2: what the hell happened with that Amazon plane in Miami.
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  Speaker 2: A different station. You ever been in a cockpit before?
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  Speaker 2: Jay Ratliff has. He's iHeartMedia aviation expert, and we get
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  Speaker 2: him here on the 55KC Morning Show every Thursday for
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  Speaker 2: a few segments, which I thoroughly enjoy. Talking about 9-11,
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  Speaker 2: the 25th anniversary tomorrow. A date that will live in infamy.
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  Speaker 3: Of course.
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  Speaker 2: And I had a couple of questions and you were
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  Speaker 2: talking about your experience with that. And you mentioned that
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  Speaker 2: before the terrorist attacks that you've been getting as being
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  Speaker 2: in the aviation industry, you've been getting reports of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: this potential attack by Osama bin Laden. You were thinking
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  Speaker 2: about rockets or at least our intelligence officials were thinking
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  Speaker 2: of something like, you know, surface to air missiles or
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  Speaker 2: something along those lines. Did you did say, you know,
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  Speaker 2: just kind of want to double down on what you
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  Speaker 2: said that they didn't. The powers that be, the intelligence officials,
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  Speaker 2: nobody thought about a plane being used as the missile.
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  Speaker 2: Is that accurate?
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  Speaker 1: In none of the circles that I was around, I
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  Speaker 1: was heavily involved in the security side of things. And
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  Speaker 1: it was never discussed. There was a lot of things
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  Speaker 1: we were concerned about. And as you went through the list,
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  Speaker 1: it was always a look back at what had happened
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  Speaker 1: before and how can we prevent that from happening. there
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  Speaker 1: was very little forward thinking about what else could happen.
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  Speaker 1: People had tried to blow up planes. They had tried
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  Speaker 1: to shoot planes down.
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  Speaker 2: Carlos the Jackal back in the 70s, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: That's it. That's it.
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  Speaker 1: So what we look at is what's happened before. But
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  Speaker 1: we were so caught off guard by that that, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And literally when it was apparent after that second plane hit,
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  Speaker 1: They sent ACAR messages or electronic messages to all the
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  Speaker 1: flight crews to the cockpit saying to do what you
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  Speaker 1: could to barricade the door, put the seatbelt side on,
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  Speaker 1: make sure everybody remained seated. In essence, we were under
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  Speaker 1: attack and planes were being used. So that's why after
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: the first two planes hit, the other two planes, the
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  Speaker 1: Pentagon and the United Airlines Flight 93, those crews knew
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  Speaker 1: what was going on. And it was just a horrific
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  Speaker 1: situation because, you know, they were using those airplanes as missiles.
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  Speaker 1: And the idea that somebody would remove the pilots and
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  Speaker 1: themselves fly the airplane, no. That was something that, at
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  Speaker 1: least in the circles that I was around, was never
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  Speaker 1: even considered. And we had some outside-the-box thinking big time
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  Speaker 1: on security issues. And my biggest concern at the time
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  Speaker 1: was the fact that check bags weren't strained. Because I thought,
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  Speaker 1: you know, if we've got 40 or 50 people willing
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  Speaker 1: to die and they check a bomb, they can bring
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  Speaker 1: down 50 airplanes.
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  Speaker 2: And that will be more consistent with prior terrorism scenarios
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  Speaker 2: where they basically blew themselves up and blew the plane up.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: That's it.
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  Speaker 1: They strap a bomb to themselves and away they go.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly.
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  Speaker 1: And at the time we had positive passenger bag match,
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  Speaker 1: which meant if you didn't fly, it didn't show up
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  Speaker 1: for the flight. The plane didn't leave until your bag
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  Speaker 1: was removed. But there was a time before that that
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  Speaker 1: we didn't have it, meaning you could check in at
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  Speaker 1: the ticket counter, put whatever you wanted in your bag.
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  Speaker 3: It'd go to the plane.
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  Speaker 1: You could go home. So it was after the bombing
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  Speaker 1: of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, that the investigation said, hey,
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  Speaker 1: we really need to start screening checked bags. That has
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  Speaker 1: to happen. We can't have a loss of life on
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  Speaker 1: this because, in essence, we could see it happening. Now,
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  Speaker 1: this explosive took place inside the cabin, but still we
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  Speaker 1: recognize that checked luggage not being screened domestically was a
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  Speaker 1: big-time issue. But instead of screening bags, they said, here's
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  Speaker 1: what we'll do, and they asked those stupid questions that
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  Speaker 1: we asked a billion times. Did you pack the bags yourself?
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  Speaker 1: Have they been in your possession the whole time? Has
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  Speaker 1: any unknown party approached you asking you to carry anything
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  Speaker 1: aboard the board's plane? That was our response to Pan
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  Speaker 1: Am 103, which was the dumbest thing in the world. But,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we could check the box that we've done something.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why I was so infuriated. And I used
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  Speaker 1: to get in so much trouble from walking out of
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  Speaker 1: meetings with the FAA because we were talking about the
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  Speaker 1: same topic month after month and year after year. I said,
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  Speaker 1: we're not serious about this. And it's a waste of
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  Speaker 1: my time. And I'm leaving because it's absolutely ridiculous for
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  Speaker 1: us to think that The fact that people think bags
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  Speaker 1: are being screened to be okay with it not being screened.
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  Speaker 1: And I was told that by numerous airline safety executives
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  Speaker 1: that said, Jay, we're not worried about that because the
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  Speaker 1: perception is the bags are screened. We're not going to
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  Speaker 1: tell them anything different. I remember a CNN producer once
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  Speaker 1: going toe to toe with me saying, Jay, what you're
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  Speaker 1: saying is wrong. Of course, the bags are screened. So no,
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  Speaker 1: they're not. They are not domestically. Now, occasionally there might
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  Speaker 1: be if there was a threat or internationally, there was
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  Speaker 1: a percentage that was, but none of the domestic bags
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  Speaker 1: were being screened. So We were told you couldn't do it.
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  Speaker 1: People would have to show up five hours early. The cost,
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  Speaker 1: the delay, it would change aviation. We just can't do it. And,
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  Speaker 1: of course, when the attacks happened, one of the things
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  Speaker 1: that we knew we had to do was say, hey,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: this has to be fixed now. And we went to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: screening bags, and we got very good at it with
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the technology and training. Now people still show up an hour,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: hour and a half before departure. On the plane they go,
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  Speaker 1: the bags are screened, no problem at all.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It's amazing what we can overcome by way of challenges.
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  Speaker 2: We just put our mind to it, Jay Ratliff, or
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: are threatened by death and destruction. That'll motivate people. Anyway,
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  Speaker 2: real quick here, just an observation. You had mentioned that
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  Speaker 2: the passengers on Flight 93 and the crew were aware
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: that their plane had been hijacked. And of course, the
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  Speaker 2: heroism cannot be understated in them basically flying it into
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  Speaker 2: the ground to save life and people on the ground.
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  Speaker 2: But the whole notion of of scrambling a fighter jet
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  Speaker 2: that might be required to shoot the plane down with
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  Speaker 2: a bunch of innocent civilians on to keep it from
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  Speaker 2: doing even more harm. How would you like to have
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  Speaker 2: to have that responsibility land in your lap?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, at that point in time, the order
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  Speaker 1: was these planes were not going to hit any other
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  Speaker 1: government facility. If the Capitol was being targeted, that plane
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  Speaker 1: was coming down. And you would deal with the aftermath later.
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  Speaker 1: But you had to protect the lives on the ground and,
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  Speaker 1: in essence, what some of these things that represented our
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  Speaker 1: country as being as far as some of the buildings,
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  Speaker 1: different types of things, and obviously trying to protect lives.
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  Speaker 1: And now that is a standing order. That's why we
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  Speaker 1: had a– it was a Cathay Pacific flight that was
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: flying Hong Kong to London. The crew went to a
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  Speaker 1: different frequency by mistake. They went radio silent for a
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  Speaker 1: period of time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And what happens is when a plane goes radio silent,
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  Speaker 1: you fear the worst. And they dispatch military intercept. And
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  Speaker 1: the crews sit there in the airplane.
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  Speaker 2: What the hell?
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  Speaker 3: They got fighter jets on both sides. They're like, hey,
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  Speaker 3: what's going on? They realize they were.
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  Speaker 1: On the wrong frequency and quickly got on the right
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  Speaker 1: one and apologized, I'm sure, repeatedly. But that's the protocol
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  Speaker 1: around the globe. We take no chances because we can't
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  Speaker 1: afford to. And airplanes being used. That's why I keep
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  Speaker 1: saying that these airplanes will remain overnight, that people can
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  Speaker 1: jump the little fence, get onto the ramp, grab an airplane, taxi,
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  Speaker 1: take off before we can have that military intercept, is
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  Speaker 1: to me one of the biggest concerns I've got right now.
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  Speaker 1: Because that's a hole we haven't plugged. And anytime we've
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  Speaker 1: got a stowaway, anytime somebody's strolling across a tarmac or runway,
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  Speaker 1: it's a very, very clear sign we're not doing enough.
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  Speaker 2: Jay Ratliff putting an exclamation point on that one. We'll
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  Speaker 2: come back and find out what the hell happened to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that FedEx plane in Miami and maybe why that guy
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: got duct taped to his seat. Is that standard protocol?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Because it wouldn't be real easy to deplane in an
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  Speaker 2: emergency that way. More with Jay Ratliff. It's 847 at 55KRC,
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  Speaker 2: the talk station. 55KRC. Hop into our time machine because
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I'm taking you to the talk station. 850 on a
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Friday evening. Happy one to you. Tomorrow, Tech Friday with
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  Speaker 2: Dave Hatter. And, of course, the real anniversary of 9-11.
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  Speaker 2: Talked a little bit about that with our media. I
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  Speaker 2: heard aviation expert this morning here, Jay Ratliff, on the line.
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  Speaker 2: Let's pivot over. The plane was going too fast, this
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  Speaker 2: FedEx or the Amazon plane. And it should have. I
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: got the idea. I keep hearing that maybe they should
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: have pulled up and taken another pass at it. But
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  Speaker 2: clearly the reason for that is obvious since it crashed.
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  Speaker 2: How did this happen, Jay?
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  Speaker 1: Apparently, there was a time during all this that they
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  Speaker 1: thought about doing it and actually started to go around
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  Speaker 1: and then stop. But a lot of moving parts here.
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  Speaker 1: And one of the things that we do know, the
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  Speaker 1: plane was coming in too fast. In fact, we know
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: from the flight data that it crossed the runway coming
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: into land at roughly, round numbers here, 200 miles an hour. Typically,
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  Speaker 1: you've got an airplane that's coming in, it's going to
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: be 160 miles an hour and less as it's coming in, landing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: You've got a runway, and divide that runway in thirds.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: The first third is typically when a jet will land.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: The second third is as it slows, and the third
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: is kind of the taxi and turnoff to go where
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: we are going. These guys didn't land until halfway down
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  Speaker 1: the runway, way farther than they should have. And when
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you look at the video, the first thing that I
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: saw that was an immediate concern was the first gear
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  Speaker 1: that hit. You know, typically an airplane comes in, the two–
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Main back gears land, and then you rotate forward, and
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  Speaker 1: the nose gear comes to a rest on the runway.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It was the forward nose gear that hit first. Now,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I've seen that happen with such force that it collapses
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: that forward landing gear. It didn't happen here. But the
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: forward landing gear hits, and then the right one, the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: left one is still up in the air. It's going
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: down the runway, and it's tilted to one side. By
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the time they were able to get that left gear down,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they're so far down. Yeah, that would have been the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: time to do the go around if they would have
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: had enough real estate. They were quickly running out of it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: The problem was the speed that they were going at
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: that time, let's say 170 miles an hour. The wings
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: are trying to do what the wings do and lift
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: that airplane off the ground. And you've got a crew
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: that's trying to get the airplane on the ground.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: And there's three.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Speed reduction systems, if you will. The first one is
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: obviously the brakes, the primary thing. Then after the brakes,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you have the spoilers or the air brakes, the things
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that pop up at the back of the wings. It
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: helps to kind of provide a little bit of a
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  Speaker 1: brace there. And then you've got the reverse thrusters. The
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  Speaker 1: problem is those can't be engaged until you've got both
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: mains on the ground to activate these other systems. So
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  Speaker 1: they simply have no time. And the investigation is going
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to be in eight to 12 months. We're hearing little
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: bits and pieces from the NTSB. We'll get a 30-day
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: briefing and then nothing until the final report. We don't
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: know if it was a mechanical situation or if the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: pilots were in error. And one thing we have been
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: told is that apparently from the cockpit voice recorder that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the NTSB were covered, one of the pilots was telling
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  Speaker 1: the other pilot, we're coming in too hot, too heavy,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: too fast.
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  Speaker 3: And apparently those.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Were repeatedly mentioned without a response from the other pilot. Now, again,
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  Speaker 1: this is preliminary.
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  Speaker 3: We don't know.
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  Speaker 1: We've got to see what's going on. But, yeah, just
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  Speaker 1: a horrific situation. They landed long. They go off the
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: end of the runway. And some airports have what's called
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: an EMAS system. It's like the truck runoff you see
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: on the interstate where the truck loses its brakes.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: The issue is if you've got 1,000 feet past the runway–
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: As a safety barrier, you're not required to have the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: ski mask material, the engineering materials arresting system, is I
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: think what they call it, where the aircraft would basically
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: kind of fall down into this, and it would slow
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to a stop. They did not need it at this
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: runway because of the excessive amount. Well, they went not
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: only 1,000, but 1,300 feet past. before this airplane came
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to a halt. And Brian, when you look at the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: moment that the cockpit voice recorder stopped, it's a suggestion
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of when the crash occurred and the airplane was moving
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: at 75 miles an hour. Now, if that's true, and again,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: this is preliminary data we're looking at, that's the speed
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: at which they hit the vehicles that contain the people.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine- that kind of an impact at that
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: speed with something that big it just it's just beyond
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: horrific and sadly uh lives were lost but i tell
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: you what the head of the mtsb she's a bulldog
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: she's going to get to the bottom of it she's
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: got an all-star team they're going to do a great
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: job we'll know exactly if there was mechanical situations pilot
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: error a combination of.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Things jay ratliff we'll talk we'll keep the duct tape
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: guy on the list for next week's we're out of
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: time and Real quick here. We had two karma events
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: this morning. I looked up as you were talking about
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: running off the end of the runway. Enter the Babylon Bee. Attribution,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: of course, necessary given the sexist meme they sent out.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Delta Airlines adds a little hanging tennis ball to the
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: end of runway for female pilots. Too soon, Jay? Too soon.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Fair enough.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Wait, wait. Way too soon.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I just say, listen, it's their post, not mine. It's
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: felt necessary to read it.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Jay Ratliff, God bless.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: You, sir.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: A lot of times when people are joking, certainly about
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: accidents and things that happen, or there's injury or a
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: loss of life, I never go there.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: You're a better person for being that way, Jay Ratliff.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: That's your personality. You are a good man, and I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: appreciate your Facebook posts throughout the week because they're always
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: very inspirational and uplifting. Not enough out of there around
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: like that. Jay Ratliff, we'll do this and then next Thursday.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the time you spent with my listeners and me.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And as always, we'll end on best of health and
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: love to you and your better half.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I appreciate it, Brian. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Jay.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: 8.56 right now. If you get a chance to listen live,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: FOP President Ken Cope.