Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Little leaguer shot dead on bike, NEW EVIDENCE TO CRACK MURDER OF CHUCKIE MAUK?

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Little leaguer shot dead on bike, NEW EVIDENCE TO CRACK MURDER OF CHUCKIE MAUK? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:08
Speaker 1: Whenever I get my twins ready for one of their games,
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Speaker 1: be it soccer or basketball, or my daughter plays volleyball,
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Speaker 1: and I'm getting their uniform ready for them, very often
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Speaker 1: I think of another little boy in his uniform, because
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Speaker 1: that's how I will forever envision Chucky Mark. He had
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Speaker 1: a little Little League outfit. It was red and white
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Speaker 1: with the white pants and the red shirt and the
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Speaker 1: red white cap, and he's holding a glove. That is
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Speaker 1: the most vivid image I have of Chucky. Crime Stories
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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace today, in a highly unusual program, we
2:11
Speaker 1: have gathered friends of his before he was murdered. The
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Speaker 1: Cold Case of Chucky Mark. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven the Triumph Channel.
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Speaker 1: Chucky Mark, a little boy, a little leaguer, gunned down
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Speaker 1: riding his bike. What happened? We want justice? With me,
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Speaker 1: a panel unlike any other I have ever seen, with
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Speaker 1: me to put this cold case back together again. Chucky's
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Speaker 1: mother now my friend, Kathy Miller, Cheryl McCollum, director of
2:59
Speaker 1: the Oldcase Research Institute, Chris Pate Robillard, a neighborhood girl
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Speaker 1: that saw Chucky the day he was gunned down riding
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Speaker 1: his bike. Still unsolved. Jason Cranford, Chuckie's friend who has
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Speaker 1: put up one hundred thousand dollars reward. Shanda Birch, Chucky's girlfriend.
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Speaker 1: He asked his mom could he give Shonda her Emerald
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Speaker 1: ring to save it for him for their engagement. Chris
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Speaker 1: Panacheck joining me. Chris at a red light in a
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Speaker 1: car with his sister when he saw Chucky just before
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Speaker 1: Chucky was murdered, and he is joining us right now
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Speaker 1: from the scene where Chucky was shot with me. Doctor
3:50
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the Stars and Crime Online dot
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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Levi Paige. First, I want you to
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend is at forty one
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Speaker 1: NBC WMGT. This is Skyler Henry. He lived right behind
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Speaker 1: the Bowling Alley on Burns Drive. He'd ride his bike
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Speaker 1: to a nearby convenience store all the time to buy Kendy.
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Speaker 1: But one February night was different. Sometime when in those
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Speaker 1: ensuing minutes, someone heard a loud pop. One witness that
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Speaker 1: I've talked to actually described or just thinking it was
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Speaker 1: a firecracker and kids playing. This is where Chucky's body
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Speaker 1: was found. He lived in the neighborhood just beyond this
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Speaker 1: fence post. Witnesses say they saw him talking to someone
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Speaker 1: in a light colored car, but they don't know who.
4:35
Speaker 1: We had a lot of witnesses a lot of people
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Speaker 1: saw things. They see a vehicle speeding away as they approached.
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Speaker 1: Within the next two minutes, Chucky's found deceased. What happened?
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Speaker 1: You were hearing our friend at w MGT NBC Skylar
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Speaker 1: Henry speaking to the house and County Sheriff Captain John Holland.
4:57
Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to Chucky's mother, Kathy Miller
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Speaker 1: joining me. Now, Kathy, I'm going to hold on this
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Speaker 1: to this case as long as we have to, and
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Speaker 1: I want you to tell our listeners, our viewers, now,
5:15
Speaker 1: what happened to night the evening you last saw Chucky.
5:19
Speaker 1: The last evening I saw Chuckie. It was a Monday evening.
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Speaker 1: We had just finished supper, and you know, I'm cleaning,
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Speaker 1: cleaning up the table and everything, and Chucky asked me
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Speaker 1: if he could go to Giant to buy candy for
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Speaker 1: the next day at school, which I heard later that
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Speaker 1: he would sell to make money to buy more candy
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Speaker 1: to sell at recess or whatever it was. And I'm thinking, here, no,
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Speaker 1: you really shouldn't go, but I said, yes, I suggest
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Speaker 1: you can go. Not looking at it is just cleaning up,
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Speaker 1: and I didn't look at him, and he walked out
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Speaker 1: the door, and that was it. What happened next. The
6:10
Speaker 1: next thing I know is about thirty minutes later, a
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Speaker 1: friend in the neighborhood came and knocked on my door
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Speaker 1: and said, Chuckie's hurt. I can see him laying up
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Speaker 1: here by a giant, you know, And I thought, oh
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Speaker 1: my god, he's fallen off his bike. He's hurt his
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Speaker 1: leg or something. So Pete, Chucky stepfather, and Greg, his
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Speaker 1: little brother, and myself, you know, we just ran up
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Speaker 1: there to get him. I thought I'd just see him
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Speaker 1: sitting there, and as I'm running, I can see that
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Speaker 1: it is so much worse, and it's like I can't
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Speaker 1: get there. I'm I'm running in slow motion. And Pete
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Speaker 1: stopped me and told me that it was Chucky and
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Speaker 1: that he was dead, and that somebody had hit him
7:02
Speaker 1: with the cars what they thought at first, and then
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Speaker 1: it's a lot of things aren't clear after that. But
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Speaker 1: that was it. So I never I never really got
7:16
Speaker 1: to But he was not he was not hit by
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Speaker 1: a car. No, this little boy, this the leaguer, was
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Speaker 1: shot dead, this little boy riding his bike. It was
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Speaker 1: no more than three blocks. As the crow flies from
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Speaker 1: home to the little convenience store, because I could that
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Speaker 1: was him where he was laying, and um, I mean
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Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was a shot at close up. It
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Speaker 1: was a close up shot, not from far away, and
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Speaker 1: um yeah. And when they rolled him over, they saw
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Speaker 1: where the bullet had X in the space, and that
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Speaker 1: was they didn't want me to see him, so they
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Speaker 1: were trying to keep me out of by this fence
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Speaker 1: that was right there. And I never saw him again, Kathy,
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Speaker 1: these years later, how has your grief changed over time
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Speaker 1: or has it? It's just so hard to explain. It's
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Speaker 1: just always it's always there. It's like about, you know,
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Speaker 1: it's on the back burner, it's simmering, it's always cooking.
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Speaker 1: I'm always thinking. And you know, I promised Chucky. I
8:44
Speaker 1: promised him I will find what happened to you. I'll
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Speaker 1: never ever let this go. And I just it's still that,
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Speaker 1: you know, you have good days and bad days, and
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Speaker 1: like this is really a good day because I'm here
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Speaker 1: from all his friends that have not forgotten him, and
9:08
Speaker 1: it means so much to me. Speaking of his friends,
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Speaker 1: I want to go straight to Chris Panachek. Chris was
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Speaker 1: at a red light in the car with his sister
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Speaker 1: when he saw Chucky speaking to someone in a white car. Chris,
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Speaker 1: I understand that you were right back at that location
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Speaker 1: right now. Yes, I'm sitting. I'm sitting where the carl
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Speaker 1: was sitting and Chucky was talking to the guy Leen.
9:37
Speaker 1: There were his handlebars on his bike with me and
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Speaker 1: Kim passed him and that stop of the red light. Guys,
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Speaker 1: this is the last time that we spoke to you
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Speaker 1: about Chucky Mak's case. And then I appeared on Fox
9:52
Speaker 1: one afternoon and put out information friends, fellow classmates, his
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Speaker 1: girlfriend and at the time, his little girlfriend saw that,
10:04
Speaker 1: and we have all gotten together to help try and
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Speaker 1: solve the case of Chucky Mark this little boy's murder.
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Speaker 1: To Chris Panachek, thank you so much for being with us.
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Speaker 1: I want to hear from you and I witness. Did
10:19
Speaker 1: you ever speak to police? Yes, ma'am, I stop. I
10:23
Speaker 1: come up here after I got home and learned and
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Speaker 1: learned that Chuckie was shot behind the Roy and Roses
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Speaker 1: here on on Burns Drive by the friend of mine
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Speaker 1: and his dad worked at a convenience store across street, Bobby's.
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Speaker 1: A minute, Mark and me and my sister had just
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Speaker 1: got home laying closed out for school the next day
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Speaker 1: and try a friend of mine called me and said, hey,
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Speaker 1: you know everybody we ride bikes with all the time
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Speaker 1: when Good jumped rants and stuff with, he said, he
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Speaker 1: just got shot. Like what I just I just seen Chucky.
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Speaker 1: I mean I just seen him talking to the car
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Speaker 1: behind the roar and rose, tell me exactly what happened.
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Speaker 1: Let's just start. You and your sister are in the car.
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Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. Don't leave anything out, all right,
11:06
Speaker 1: we come up burned and we passed. We get past
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Speaker 1: the right here and check. He's talking to a white
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Speaker 1: gentleman in a white Buick Regal type. Whoa, whoa, whoa
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Speaker 1: Right there, I'm getting information I've never heard before. So
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Speaker 1: the purp is a white male in what kind of car?
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Speaker 1: It's a Buick Goes seventy nine eighty one Buick Regal.
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Speaker 1: Type of type of vehicle Utatan white, oh, solid white
11:39
Speaker 1: car could have been a Regal or a Pontiac Granddam,
11:44
Speaker 1: Grand Prix, Grand Grand right right Grand Prix Hellenbile Cut
11:50
Speaker 1: the Supreme. That type of body style two or four
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Speaker 1: door two door. Do you think there was another man
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Speaker 1: in the car no man. There was this one guy
12:02
Speaker 1: in that card. One guy, one guy and a fi
12:05
Speaker 1: ever knew that, Nancy, me, Either and I have talked
12:08
Speaker 1: about this case. I've talked to cops about the case.
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Speaker 1: I've talked to investigators about the case. This is the
12:13
Speaker 1: first time it's being defined as definitely a white male.
12:18
Speaker 1: I mean we, Cheryl McCollum, you and I have gone
12:20
Speaker 1: round and round and said we think it was a
12:23
Speaker 1: white male either one or two. But it could have
12:25
Speaker 1: been a Hispanic mail it could have been an Asian male.
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Speaker 1: But we are now hearing definitively, Cheryl McCollum, it is
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Speaker 1: a white male. We think alone see all white vehicle
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Speaker 1: into two doors. Nancy, this is a game changer, period.
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Speaker 1: It is overwhelming to me that law enforcement has not
12:45
Speaker 1: put this out correctly. Has not Hey hey, hey, hey hey.
12:50
Speaker 1: As much as I know you love to bask the cop,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl when deserved, let's just keep plowing forward with the facts,
13:08
Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the
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Speaker 1: murder of a little boy who was grown dear to
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Speaker 1: my heart tipline four seven eight five four two two
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Speaker 1: zero eight zero, and we are learning information we've never
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Speaker 1: known before with me, many of Chucky's friends that he
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Speaker 1: knew at the time, one of them an eyewitness also
13:33
Speaker 1: with me, Chucky's mom and his little girlfriend at the time,
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Speaker 1: Chandra Birch to Chris panachek, let me get back to
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Speaker 1: where we were. You're in a car with sister. You
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Speaker 1: look over, you see Chucky speaking to the guys. What
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Speaker 1: was their interaction. Chucky was just had his arms folded
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Speaker 1: in there talking to the g who would laugh. He
13:51
Speaker 1: was like laughing and talking to this guy. And the
13:54
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, the lights, the lights from from
13:57
Speaker 1: the firms man's car, you know, kind of I guess
14:01
Speaker 1: my vision ornything, but I kept on looking back and
14:04
Speaker 1: my sixty was driving stop as they were able to
14:07
Speaker 1: stop signing. I don't think his comedian store was there
14:09
Speaker 1: to the end, but were sitting there, and if we
14:13
Speaker 1: hadn't had the radio up so loud when I sat
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Speaker 1: back down, Tucky was talking. You know, would had picked
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Speaker 1: his front tire up on his bike and turned turned
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Speaker 1: into the turn away from this day, and if I hadn't,
14:25
Speaker 1: we hadn't had the radio up so loud, we would
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Speaker 1: have heard the shot because when he picked his front
14:30
Speaker 1: tire up I turned around and sat down and stopped
14:32
Speaker 1: looking back, and then nasonally was shot in the back
14:35
Speaker 1: of the head. That's very very interesting to me that
14:40
Speaker 1: you watched for that length of time that he actually
14:44
Speaker 1: turned around and you look back. Something told you to
14:47
Speaker 1: turn around and look back. You saw Chucky. He was,
14:51
Speaker 1: I guess, still on his bike with his feet on
14:55
Speaker 1: the ground, but his arms were folded. Did I hear
14:58
Speaker 1: that correctly, Yes, ma'am. He was talking the guy with
15:00
Speaker 1: his arms folded like NICs over. He did so. It
15:03
Speaker 1: was hunched over, arms folded, rode bike that Chucky forever.
15:07
Speaker 1: His arms were actually touching the handlebar, yes, ma'am. And
15:13
Speaker 1: did you say he was laughing? Yeah, it was like
15:16
Speaker 1: they were having a conversation with each other. They were
15:19
Speaker 1: conversating with each other, and you know, Chuck, Chuck, he
15:21
Speaker 1: made a lot of hand jester when he talked. What's
15:24
Speaker 1: he doing that? Yes, the whole time, the whole time
15:29
Speaker 1: I went. He went to walk right out the window
15:31
Speaker 1: into the car, and you know, Keim was like, we're
15:33
Speaker 1: going so like, well, I I blame myself because I
15:37
Speaker 1: could get right out of the room and said, hey, Chucky,
15:40
Speaker 1: and just maybe something would have been different. Chris, the
15:45
Speaker 1: guy in the car, how close was he too? Chucky
15:50
Speaker 1: probably two foot foot the most of the two foot
15:53
Speaker 1: frowy guy was sitting in his car. So was the
15:58
Speaker 1: car closer to the to the parking lot or was
16:03
Speaker 1: Chucky closer to the road. I'm probably five foot from
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Speaker 1: the curve Burners Drive right now, and then I'm sitting
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Speaker 1: exactly where I remember, well not exactly, but where I
16:13
Speaker 1: remember the car sitting, and I'm looking towards the fence
16:17
Speaker 1: down Burns Drive. So how close was Chucky to the
16:20
Speaker 1: actual street? Was he on the sidewalk? It was played
16:23
Speaker 1: by ten foot fifteen foot from the side front of
16:25
Speaker 1: the from the edge of the curb fifteen feet from
16:27
Speaker 1: the curb. Was he in the parking lot of the
16:30
Speaker 1: gas station the seven to eleven? No, the gas stations
16:33
Speaker 1: up towards Russell Park were a little bit more. We
16:36
Speaker 1: were we were Actually he was actually right beside the
16:40
Speaker 1: Bowling Alley and behind Roy and Roses theory. So had
16:43
Speaker 1: he had he already left the convenience store? Yes, Okay,
16:48
Speaker 1: that's important to me because I always pictured that he
16:51
Speaker 1: was in the parking lot of the convenience store. But
16:54
Speaker 1: he had left the convenience store with the candy. Correct. Yes,
16:58
Speaker 1: m looked like he was on the way home back
17:01
Speaker 1: bay mis Kelly. I mean that's yeah. Well I look
17:04
Speaker 1: at it now. I'm like he was heading back home.
17:07
Speaker 1: It's like this guy had to be driving, but he
17:10
Speaker 1: had to be leaning. Like, talk to Chucky. Was the
17:14
Speaker 1: car stopped, Chris? Had he totally stopped his car? Was
17:17
Speaker 1: it in park? Yes? Man, it was just sitting here talking.
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Speaker 1: Chucky's like, I'm sitting here now facing the exact same
17:23
Speaker 1: trying to face the exact same direction. Was he had
17:26
Speaker 1: an intersection or pulled over on the side of the road. No,
17:29
Speaker 1: he's in the parking lot in the There's a big
17:32
Speaker 1: parking lot in front of the bowling alley and beside
17:34
Speaker 1: the bowling alley. It's like one of those many shopping centers. Gotcha,
17:39
Speaker 1: I understand now. So he's not on the street, he's
17:42
Speaker 1: in the parking lot. I just wonder. I guess at
17:46
Speaker 1: that time, there was no surveillance video or anything like that.
17:50
Speaker 1: And you're sure there was only one white male in
17:53
Speaker 1: the car, Chris. One person. That's all that's I mean
17:57
Speaker 1: that I remember this night like it was I mean
18:00
Speaker 1: I remember this night like it was yesterday. It played
18:02
Speaker 1: over and over and over in my mind. I just
18:05
Speaker 1: it's never gone away and it will never go away.
18:07
Speaker 1: And when you turned around and you look back at Chucky,
18:10
Speaker 1: you saw him turn his wheel like he was leaving. Yeah,
18:15
Speaker 1: he picked the front tire up like you know guys would.
18:18
Speaker 1: And when we got to go somewhere and were close something,
18:20
Speaker 1: pick your front tire up and you put your foot on,
18:22
Speaker 1: one foot on the pedal, one foot on the ground.
18:23
Speaker 1: You picked that front at back up and turn, you know,
18:26
Speaker 1: turn to put the bike front where back down and
18:28
Speaker 1: go where you're going. Jason, you don't want talking about Yeah,
18:32
Speaker 1: I see you do that all the time. Chris panna
18:35
Speaker 1: check one more question? Did you what can you tell
18:38
Speaker 1: me about the guy you looked back? Could you see
18:41
Speaker 1: his face? What color was his hair? Did he have
18:43
Speaker 1: a mustache? Anything I gave? I got like they've got
18:46
Speaker 1: a sketch. Uh you think I got a sketch or
18:48
Speaker 1: mean what me and my sister did. And the guy
18:51
Speaker 1: was just a white male, you know, pale skin, acting
18:55
Speaker 1: like red red or brown hair hair, brown hair. I'm
19:01
Speaker 1: looking at the sketch right now, and it looks like
19:04
Speaker 1: he's got a little bit of a mustache going, and
19:07
Speaker 1: he's wearing an open collar shirt and his hair is
19:11
Speaker 1: parted on his left and kangs and I say something here,
19:17
Speaker 1: How well did he look to you? Yeah? One last question?
19:19
Speaker 1: How old did he look to you? Chris in his
19:22
Speaker 1: twenties twenty five six seven? Understand? I think I hear
19:29
Speaker 1: Jason Cranford, is that you Jason? Jump in, Jason, I
19:32
Speaker 1: just wanted to say that that sketch that you're talking about,
19:34
Speaker 1: the guy with a mustache. I was told by Houston
19:37
Speaker 1: County Homicide that that sketch looks nothing like the sketch
19:40
Speaker 1: that Chris Pinoxi did the Night of the or his
19:44
Speaker 1: sister did the Night of the m Chris, Yeah, I
19:47
Speaker 1: heard that was that aged him? They did that, The
19:51
Speaker 1: FBI did that at Quantico where they aged him, But
19:55
Speaker 1: it was not the sketch that was shown to us
19:59
Speaker 1: that night. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace, here at a time
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece joining me. Also is Chris
21:54
Speaker 1: Pate Robillard, a little neighborhood girls saw Chucky the day
21:58
Speaker 1: he was killed, riding his by after school. Chris, thank
22:02
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Yes, thank you, Nancy, thank you, Chris,
22:07
Speaker 1: thank you. Don't don't anybody move, don't anybody go anywhere.
22:12
Speaker 1: Chris pay Robillard, tell me what you saw that day? Well, um,
22:18
Speaker 1: it just breaks my heart even going through all of
22:20
Speaker 1: it right now, it all is. It's surreal. Um. The
22:24
Speaker 1: day of around it was we got out of school
22:27
Speaker 1: at three fifteen and around four fifteen, four thirty, Chuck
22:31
Speaker 1: came over to my house. Um. I lived a couple
22:35
Speaker 1: of blocks away from him, and he just came over
22:37
Speaker 1: to It's funny. He actually had candy and he just
22:41
Speaker 1: came over to talk and we sat in my driveway.
22:44
Speaker 1: I vividly remember we sat in the driveway and we
22:47
Speaker 1: talked about Shanda's a girlfriend which he adored, and I
22:51
Speaker 1: was a good friend to her. And we ate all
22:55
Speaker 1: the candy he had. I'm sorry, Miss Miller, there was
23:00
Speaker 1: a lot of candy that day. Um. And I remember
23:03
Speaker 1: we just sat and talked and hung out just like
23:07
Speaker 1: thirteen year old kids do. And he was off to
23:10
Speaker 1: go jump. I think they were jumping ramps and stuff
23:13
Speaker 1: with Ja. They had built that ramp. Yeah, And but
23:18
Speaker 1: he just came by and we hung out like we
23:20
Speaker 1: always did, and ate candy of course, and just you know,
23:26
Speaker 1: just doing with thirteen year old. And he didn't act
23:29
Speaker 1: like he was scared about anything, did he? Absolutely not? Not, Okay.
23:34
Speaker 1: I always wondered that, no, ma'am, not at all, you
23:39
Speaker 1: know to dodgor Bethany Marshall Psychoana was joining me out
23:41
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. You know,
23:45
Speaker 1: in every case, it seems to me that there are
23:47
Speaker 1: certain facts, whether they're probitive, prove anything or not, sticks
23:52
Speaker 1: out in my mind. I remember the first carjack murder
23:55
Speaker 1: case I tried. It's not the defendant who got convicted,
23:59
Speaker 1: by the way that six in my mind, it's the
24:02
Speaker 1: fact that when the gunshot rang out, a neighbor ran
24:05
Speaker 1: out of the house, and that the victim was either
24:10
Speaker 1: dead or dying in his own driveway. The neighbor runs
24:13
Speaker 1: back in the house and comes out with a pillow
24:17
Speaker 1: and puts under the dead guy's head. And what I
24:23
Speaker 1: just heard Chris Pate Robelard saying, how innocent they were,
24:29
Speaker 1: these little kids twelve or thirteen years old. You know,
24:32
Speaker 1: the big thrill was to go to the seven to
24:34
Speaker 1: eleven and get some candy. And you know he's twelve
24:38
Speaker 1: us years old. He goes, hey, mom. She finds him
24:41
Speaker 1: going through her jewelry and he goes save that emerald
24:44
Speaker 1: ring for me because you know, I'm going to ask
24:47
Speaker 1: Sean did and marry me one day. I'm just thinking
24:49
Speaker 1: about the dichotomy of their their innocence and then what happened.
24:55
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't you didn't think anything about letting
24:58
Speaker 1: them go out like because it was just like right
25:01
Speaker 1: around the corner, you know, because I've always blamed myself.
25:05
Speaker 1: I've always blamed myself for saying yes to him, you know.
25:10
Speaker 1: And doctor Bethany Marshall is with us analyzing a coal
25:15
Speaker 1: case which we are reading heating up today Chucky. Doctor Bethany,
25:19
Speaker 1: I know you just heard Chucky's mom say she's always
25:23
Speaker 1: felt guilty about just letting him go out on his bike.
25:25
Speaker 1: But missus Mark, you can't say no to everything, because
25:28
Speaker 1: if you say no to everything, then you have an
25:30
Speaker 1: imprisoned child and a child who cannot develop and grow
25:34
Speaker 1: and be inquisitive and learn about the world. These stories
25:39
Speaker 1: are so moving and profound to me, and I want
25:41
Speaker 1: to say something that sticks out is Chucky's friend who
25:45
Speaker 1: looked back through the car from the rear window and
25:48
Speaker 1: saw that Chucky's arms were folded over the handlebar of
25:53
Speaker 1: his bike, and that he seemed to be leaning forward
25:56
Speaker 1: in deep in a conversation. And that speaks to the
25:59
Speaker 1: innocent you're talking about, Nancy, that some perpose stopped him
26:03
Speaker 1: and engaged him in a conversation. And how many times
26:07
Speaker 1: has that happened to every single person on this panel
26:10
Speaker 1: in childhood? To our own children are relatives that it
26:14
Speaker 1: always starts with something innocent. The adult says, Hey, can
26:18
Speaker 1: I have a piece of your candy? Or oh I
26:20
Speaker 1: love that bike? Or oh you know what I'm lost?
26:23
Speaker 1: Can I do you know where then your gas station is?
26:27
Speaker 1: It's always to something like that, and Chucky leaning over
26:29
Speaker 1: the handles. He thought nothing was wrong, but at some
26:34
Speaker 1: point something must have crossed his mind, even at his
26:37
Speaker 1: young age, that he was in trouble. Think and think
26:41
Speaker 1: and think what they were talking about. Because the mom,
26:46
Speaker 1: Kathy Miller, has racked her mind. She doesn't know a
26:49
Speaker 1: family friend with that kind of car. The description doesn't
26:52
Speaker 1: match anyone they know. Take a listen now to our
26:56
Speaker 1: friends at WMGT. The call first came in as a
27:01
Speaker 1: hidden run. It was soon determined it he was actually
27:04
Speaker 1: died as a result of a single gunshot one and
27:07
Speaker 1: I say a gunshot one through the head. But who
27:10
Speaker 1: would shoot a thirteen year old boy. We don't expect
27:13
Speaker 1: our children to be shot and killed in House and
27:16
Speaker 1: County in this matter. People during that time quit letting
27:20
Speaker 1: the kids ride their lives. They quit letting him go
27:22
Speaker 1: up the street on the box. Captain John Holland, like
27:25
Speaker 1: the House and County Sheriff's Office, says he an investigators
27:28
Speaker 1: interviewed dozens of people trying to find that answer. They
27:31
Speaker 1: turned the neighborhood inside out. They campus the neighborhood. I
27:34
Speaker 1: think they set up road chicks during that time just
27:36
Speaker 1: to find people that had seen things. And even to
27:39
Speaker 1: this day we do get calls with people that either
27:43
Speaker 1: have some information or have an idea about who may
27:45
Speaker 1: have been involved. There is still no suspect. It's a
27:49
Speaker 1: tough conversation. She still has some hope that one day
27:54
Speaker 1: she'll get some resolution, but it's difficult, don't you know.
28:00
Speaker 1: Oh wait, that was our friend, scholar Henry Henry at
28:02
Speaker 1: WMGT speaking to the Captain John Holland joining me now
28:08
Speaker 1: is in addition to Kathy Miller, Chucky's mother, his friend
28:13
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, Leavi Page, and doctor Bethany Marshall. Shanda Burch.
28:18
Speaker 1: This is Chucky's then girlfriend who to this day is
28:25
Speaker 1: haunted by his death. Shanda Birch. Thank you for being
28:31
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you, Nancy. Shanda, tell me about the
28:37
Speaker 1: day that Chucky was murdered. Um, it's hard to talk about. Actually,
28:47
Speaker 1: my brother's friend gave my brother a call and told
28:51
Speaker 1: my brother that something had happened to Chuck and that
28:54
Speaker 1: he was heard or he was shot. And I totally
28:57
Speaker 1: didn't believe him. I just I thought, oh, if that's
29:00
Speaker 1: that can't be true. I don't I don't believe this.
29:03
Speaker 1: And I was just in a state of shock. And
29:07
Speaker 1: I stayed up that night so I could watched the
29:09
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock news to see if if this was true,
29:13
Speaker 1: if this happened. And um, I stayed up and I
29:16
Speaker 1: watched it, and it happened, and I just remember not
29:21
Speaker 1: believing it. Shanda, you say that to this day, Chucky's
29:28
Speaker 1: murder still haunts you, explained, Well, Nancy, when you're twelve
29:33
Speaker 1: years old, you don't really know how to handle, you know,
29:38
Speaker 1: something so huge like that, and um, it was something
29:41
Speaker 1: that you didn't know what to do, You didn't know
29:43
Speaker 1: how to help, you didn't know who to talk to. UM,
29:47
Speaker 1: And so it took a long long time to process
29:50
Speaker 1: that information, you know, way into adulthood, and to this
29:55
Speaker 1: day it's still it's still difficult to talk about UM.
29:59
Speaker 1: You know, do not trust people, and it makes you
30:02
Speaker 1: feel this is still going on and there's no answers.
30:08
Speaker 1: I love you, Shanda. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Shanda
30:28
Speaker 1: verche with me Chucky's little girlfriend at the time. And
30:33
Speaker 1: let me just pose this question to all of you
30:35
Speaker 1: on the palel, to all of you listening now, do
30:38
Speaker 1: you remember the first person you ever thought you loved,
30:42
Speaker 1: very first person, your first love. I bet a lot
30:45
Speaker 1: of us know where that person is right now, what
30:49
Speaker 1: they're doing for a living, what became of them. And
30:55
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what Shanda has been through. Shanda, how
30:59
Speaker 1: do you believe this has affected your life? It's affected
31:05
Speaker 1: my life tremendously. Um. He was my best friend and
31:11
Speaker 1: we loved each other, we really did. And and I
31:15
Speaker 1: think if he would have lived, I really do think
31:18
Speaker 1: that we would have been together, or at least have
31:22
Speaker 1: been best friends and been in our life. You know,
31:26
Speaker 1: I think he would still be a part of my life.
31:28
Speaker 1: And I've always felt like there was something missing in
31:33
Speaker 1: my life and you just can't replace that. Well, he
31:39
Speaker 1: cared so much, Beth, He did. He really cared so
31:45
Speaker 1: much for you, and I'm so glad that he had
31:49
Speaker 1: a chance in his early years to to fall in love,
31:52
Speaker 1: to be able to experience that, and he did love you. Yeah, Kathy,
31:59
Speaker 1: please tell a story about him finding your emerald ring.
32:03
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. We were going through my jewelry and it
32:07
Speaker 1: was just an emerald, an emerald cut emerald playing you
32:11
Speaker 1: know ring. It wasn't really fancy, but he fell in
32:16
Speaker 1: love with that, and he says, Mama, keep that ring
32:18
Speaker 1: because I'm going to give that to Shando one day.
32:21
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, Darling, I will, And in fact,
32:25
Speaker 1: I buried him with that. Oh. I put it on
32:29
Speaker 1: his little finger because that was one of the things
32:33
Speaker 1: that was so important to him. And he would go
32:35
Speaker 1: on my jewelry box every once in a while and
32:37
Speaker 1: look at it, you know, And I knew how important
32:41
Speaker 1: it was, and I knew how important she was to him,
32:46
Speaker 1: So I thought, then that's where it needs to be
32:49
Speaker 1: with him. To doctor Bethany Marshall's Psycho Walla's joining us
32:53
Speaker 1: out of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany marshall dot com
32:56
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. There's something about and I've had to live
32:59
Speaker 1: with it since the murder of my fiancee. There's something
33:04
Speaker 1: about dreams that never came true. You wonder the rest
33:09
Speaker 1: of your life. Even though now I have a family
33:14
Speaker 1: and my children, sometimes I think, well, I wonder what
33:22
Speaker 1: would have happened. It's I can't really, I'm just a
33:26
Speaker 1: j D. All Right, you're the shrink, Bethany. Can you
33:29
Speaker 1: address what Shanda is saying that it's like something is
33:33
Speaker 1: just suddenly gone in your life and there's you think
33:38
Speaker 1: about it like a Rubic's cube. You keep trying to
33:42
Speaker 1: put it together, you know, Nancy. As I was listening
33:45
Speaker 1: to Shanda, I started to reminisce about the first two
33:48
Speaker 1: boys I ever had a crush on in grade school
33:51
Speaker 1: and in June or high So that was very evocative.
33:54
Speaker 1: I think think of with the proliferation of Facebook, how
33:58
Speaker 1: many people went back to find their childhood sweethearts or
34:02
Speaker 1: the children that they love the most in childhood. Think
34:05
Speaker 1: about seniors when their spouses of fifty years die who
34:09
Speaker 1: do they go back to their first sweetheart. I hear
34:12
Speaker 1: it all the time in my clinical practice, we read
34:15
Speaker 1: it in the news, and I think that the underpinnings
34:18
Speaker 1: are that we attach in a different way when we're eleven, twelve, thirteen,
34:24
Speaker 1: or eighteen. There's a youthful, innocent, expectant part of us
34:29
Speaker 1: where we can idealize in a charming way what our
34:33
Speaker 1: future is going to be like with that person. It's
34:36
Speaker 1: not yet disrupted by all the disappointments that come along
34:39
Speaker 1: the way in adult life. It's pure, it's innocent, it's
34:42
Speaker 1: full of hope, and so we all want to reach
34:44
Speaker 1: back to that. We want to go back to our
34:47
Speaker 1: wedding day or renewing of the vows. Now, things begin
34:51
Speaker 1: in life are so important, just as important as how
34:54
Speaker 1: they end, which I think is what's so beautiful about
34:57
Speaker 1: memorializing Chucky is that we're talking about the beginning, first love,
35:02
Speaker 1: his relationship with his mother, and we're talking about the end,
35:05
Speaker 1: and we're memorializing it. Doctor Bethany, just can I just
35:09
Speaker 1: pause right there, because I don't want to just memorialize Chuckie.
35:14
Speaker 1: I want to find his killer. That's what I want.
35:16
Speaker 1: Good point that's what we all want. And I'm not
35:20
Speaker 1: disagreeing with you, Doctor Bethany. I am trying to find
35:24
Speaker 1: Chucky mocks killer. Say something about that, Nancy, I think
35:29
Speaker 1: the fact yes, I want to give that tipline four
35:33
Speaker 1: seven eight five four two two zero eight zero. Go ahead,
35:37
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Please, Chucky's friend saw the make and model
35:40
Speaker 1: of the car, and we kind of briefed past that.
35:43
Speaker 1: We addressed it briefly. But you know, when cold cases
35:47
Speaker 1: are solved, it's because witnesses who were afraid of the perpetrator,
35:51
Speaker 1: with the cooling of emotions the passage of time, they
35:54
Speaker 1: become less afraid and they're more willing to come forward.
35:57
Speaker 1: Parents who would have once protected a child alto they
36:00
Speaker 1: knew was a pedophile, now say, you know what, he's
36:04
Speaker 1: fifty or eighty and he's or sixty. He's going to
36:06
Speaker 1: keep offending. I'm going to turn him in. So getting
36:09
Speaker 1: the make and model of that car out there, I
36:11
Speaker 1: think is a key to finding the perpetrator. Guys, Chucky
36:15
Speaker 1: mak a little boy who just goes to a convenience
36:19
Speaker 1: store to get candy. It's part of a strip Mall
36:23
Speaker 1: one Robins, Georgia. We still don't have answers, but today
36:26
Speaker 1: we're learning a lot of clues. I want to circle
36:29
Speaker 1: back to Chris Panacheck at a red light in a
36:33
Speaker 1: car with his sister, Seize Chucky talking to his killer,
36:37
Speaker 1: sitting in a solid white car outside the convenience store.
36:42
Speaker 1: Seize Chucky start to drive off white mail Buick type
36:48
Speaker 1: car seventy nine to eighty one Regal or Grand Prix
36:52
Speaker 1: two door. I want you to think, Chris, is there
36:56
Speaker 1: anything rack your brain? Did the guy have his arm
37:01
Speaker 1: hanging out? Did he have a tattoo? Was he wearing
37:04
Speaker 1: a watch? Is there anything the tires on the car?
37:07
Speaker 1: Anything you can tell us. I was put under hypnoticed
37:10
Speaker 1: by by mister Ankler with the house Kang Ferret department.
37:15
Speaker 1: I think two or three times, and I I'm My
37:19
Speaker 1: memory of this car is so the emblem on the
37:21
Speaker 1: on the vehicle. It's being on the fender behind the
37:24
Speaker 1: front tire of that car. That's why I say it's
37:26
Speaker 1: a beaut It's like a busic Regal because it was
37:27
Speaker 1: a it's like a night symbols the crest, the rod,
37:30
Speaker 1: you know, like over in England, that family's family crest
37:34
Speaker 1: and it's a red white and blue crest. And that
37:37
Speaker 1: just I mean, I just always stuck red, white and
37:40
Speaker 1: blue type crest on the back fender, front, the front
37:45
Speaker 1: fender of the car, right on the front car fender,
37:49
Speaker 1: right behind the front tire, on on which side driver,
37:54
Speaker 1: it's an emblem on the on the vehicle. It's like
37:56
Speaker 1: the It's on both sides, right and left. But I
37:58
Speaker 1: know I've seen it on the left side of the
38:00
Speaker 1: vehicle when I was coming to the vehicle. Oh you
38:03
Speaker 1: mean not on the fender, but on the body of
38:05
Speaker 1: the car itself. No, on the fender of the car,
38:08
Speaker 1: right behind the right behind the fender wheel of the
38:10
Speaker 1: front tire. I understand it at a lot of car
38:13
Speaker 1: better A little crest is like gregals, I do believe, Cheryl,
38:17
Speaker 1: I've never heard that, CHERRYL. McCollum. I've never heard that
38:21
Speaker 1: that should limit what kind of car it is. And
38:23
Speaker 1: answer That's what I was trying to say earlier. This
38:26
Speaker 1: is such a money tree. We now know there was
38:29
Speaker 1: only one person in the car. He was white, the
38:32
Speaker 1: type of the car, something is detailed as that crest
38:36
Speaker 1: being behind the wheel and all to me, this is
38:40
Speaker 1: such a visual There's gonna be somebody from making to
38:44
Speaker 1: Warner Robins tips and even that car is significant. This
38:50
Speaker 1: is not the first crime that person committed, and it's
38:53
Speaker 1: not the first crime they committed in that vehicle. U
38:56
Speaker 1: to to Cathy's mom, Wait, let me ask this to
38:59
Speaker 1: leave I pay joining me crime online dot com LEVI
39:02
Speaker 1: was a bullet ever recovered? Yes, the bullet was recovered, Nancy,
39:07
Speaker 1: and I just did a Google search and the Buick logo, Nancy,
39:11
Speaker 1: there was a Buick logo and it was in red,
39:14
Speaker 1: white and blue back in the day, the former logo
39:17
Speaker 1: of Buick. So that could be what Chris saw when
39:20
Speaker 1: he was examining the car. And what's interesting, Nancy, what
39:23
Speaker 1: we know about the evidence in these cases that when
39:26
Speaker 1: Chucky was found, he was still gripping the receipt to
39:29
Speaker 1: the store and the bubble gum in his hand, which
39:32
Speaker 1: means he's left the store. He was also shot in
39:34
Speaker 1: the back of the head, which means that his back
39:38
Speaker 1: was to the perpetrator when the perpetrator shot him, which
39:41
Speaker 1: means that something could have happened, Nancy, that scared Chucky.
39:45
Speaker 1: This guy could have creeped him out, and he tried
39:46
Speaker 1: to get away, and that's when the guy shot him
39:49
Speaker 1: to keep him from talking about their conversation or what
39:52
Speaker 1: he tried to do to Chuck LEVI, if you don't mind,
39:56
Speaker 1: please send me the photo that you managed to get,
39:58
Speaker 1: a red, white, and blue. I guarantee you it's going
40:02
Speaker 1: to be in the shape of an old English coat
40:06
Speaker 1: of arms like which is a shield of sorts. Wow. Okay?
40:11
Speaker 1: You know with me? Is Chris Panachek, who was at
40:14
Speaker 1: the red light and saw Chucky just moments, literally seconds
40:18
Speaker 1: before he was murdered. Shanda Birch, his little girlfriend who
40:22
Speaker 1: was still dealing with the fallout of his murder. Jason Cranford,
40:26
Speaker 1: his friend joining us from Colorado who has put up
40:29
Speaker 1: a one hundred thousand dollar reward. Jason question, for anyone
40:34
Speaker 1: that can give you a call or a tip, how
40:37
Speaker 1: do we reach you regarding that reward? Oh? Well, everybody
40:41
Speaker 1: on this call. I have myself phone number, in my email,
40:44
Speaker 1: my Facebook. If there's any other type of contact you
40:48
Speaker 1: want me provided, I can provide it and the tip
40:51
Speaker 1: line that we have for seven eight five four two
40:53
Speaker 1: two zero eight zero. Chris pet Robillard neighborhood that saw
40:58
Speaker 1: Chucky the afternoon before he was killed. Cheryl McCollum, director
41:03
Speaker 1: Coal Case Research Institute, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Kathy Miller
41:07
Speaker 1: Chucky's mom question out to you, Let me go to
41:12
Speaker 1: Jason Cranford putting up a hundred thousand dollar reward. How
41:17
Speaker 1: did you guys all get together to join me today? Oh? So,
41:23
Speaker 1: every year there's a Chuck Mark Facebook support group of
41:27
Speaker 1: ce memorial page, and every year around the anniversary, people
41:31
Speaker 1: start posting in there. This year, Shanda Birch made a
41:35
Speaker 1: post that you know, it really got to me and
41:37
Speaker 1: started reminding me of what happened. And I have a
41:40
Speaker 1: thirteen year old son now, and so it really get
41:44
Speaker 1: home this year because of the age of my son
41:47
Speaker 1: and the age of Chucky when he died. And you know,
41:50
Speaker 1: I've been very successful in my business adventures, and you know,
41:54
Speaker 1: the reward is something I feel as the least that
41:57
Speaker 1: I could do to help Miss Miller get some peace
42:00
Speaker 1: with us. You know, she's getting old and I would
42:02
Speaker 1: like to see that's happened in her lifetime. I had
42:05
Speaker 1: the money. Chuck was a dear friend of mine. You know,
42:09
Speaker 1: I hung out in this Miller's garage. Me and Chuck
42:11
Speaker 1: worked on bicycles in there. We jumped the ramp that
42:14
Speaker 1: everybody keeps talking about. I sent pictures of that ramp. Then,
42:18
Speaker 1: you know, I think that after he left Chris Pete's house,
42:22
Speaker 1: he came over to the ramp that we all built
42:23
Speaker 1: and we were all jumping that ramp, and that was
42:26
Speaker 1: the last time I saw him. But you know, this
42:27
Speaker 1: was my first experience with death in my life, and
42:30
Speaker 1: it's funded me my whole life, just like it's haunted
42:33
Speaker 1: the rest of the people on this Guys. I pulled
42:34
Speaker 1: up that amblan Levi sent me and it is red,
42:37
Speaker 1: white and blue, and it looks like a coat of arms.
42:41
Speaker 1: It's amazing, and right now I am sending it Levi.
42:47
Speaker 1: I pass it on to Brett really quickly so he
42:49
Speaker 1: can pass it on to Chris Panacheck and see if
42:52
Speaker 1: that's even remotely what he saw. Guys. Tipline regarding the
42:57
Speaker 1: reward is three zero three eight four two zero one
43:01
Speaker 1: seven nine repeat three zero three eight four two zero
43:06
Speaker 1: one seven nine. Could this emblem on the side of
43:10
Speaker 1: that vehicle be the tip that cracks this case wide open? Guys,
43:16
Speaker 1: the search for Chucky Mock's killer goes on. Please help
43:23
Speaker 1: us hit the case up and put it to rest
43:28
Speaker 1: the tip line four seven eight five four two two
43:31
Speaker 1: zero eight zero. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,