Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Natalee Holloway's dad finds bones in Aruba! Is it her?

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Natalee Holloway's dad finds bones in Aruba! Is it her? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: families and the AFR Climb stories with Nancy Grace on
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Speaker 1: Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two, two thousand five.
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Speaker 1: On the small Island of a Rubot, Natalie Holloway was
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Speaker 1: with friends at a local bar where she was last
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Speaker 1: seen getting a ride with Uron Vandersloughte. Natalie's disappearance remains
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Speaker 1: a mystery. Her dad says that he in a private
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Speaker 1: eye found human remains in a rubot. We took those
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Speaker 1: remains and had those remains test it and then just
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Speaker 1: returned last week. That's her human remains. Will there be
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Speaker 1: able to be some kind of test ave that will
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Speaker 1: be answer once in Paul whether this is Natalie. We're
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Speaker 1: in the process of doing a d n A task.
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Speaker 1: Dave Holloway says that a friend of a man who
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Speaker 1: was once suspected in her disappearance tipped them off. I
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Speaker 1: know that there's a possibility this could be someone else,
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Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to wait and see An American
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Speaker 1: beauty scrubbed in Sunshine. The All American Girl, an honor student,
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Speaker 1: cheerleader in the dance corps at school, a loving daughter,
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Speaker 1: her world in front of her. This Alabama beauty queen
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Speaker 1: goes missing on her senior trip. She's never seen again.
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Speaker 1: I have spoken to her mom and dad and stepdad
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Speaker 1: so many times as they recount their desperate flight to
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Speaker 1: Aruba and then they land. They have no idea where
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Speaker 1: to start or where what to do, but they try,
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Speaker 1: they try and try without success. The prime suspect then
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Speaker 1: goes on to murder yet another girl, Stephanie Tassiana Flores,
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Speaker 1: but still no sign of Natalie Holloway. I Meancy, Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: In the last hour, her father, Natalie Holloway's father, reveals
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Speaker 1: that he and an investigator have made a stunning, disturbing,
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Speaker 1: shocking discovery behind a home human remains. Dave Holloway and
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Speaker 1: investigator T. J. Ward have announced that, following a renewed
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Speaker 1: nearly two year investigation, the remains that they have discovered
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Speaker 1: will be DNA tested to determine if they are those
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Speaker 1: of Natalie Holloway. With Me investigative reporter and award winning
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. I might add Art Harris is with me
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Speaker 1: along with death scene investigator and forensics professor at Jacksonville
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Speaker 1: State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, Guys, thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with me. You know, Art Harris, it seems to me
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Speaker 1: like it was yesterday that you and I were on
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Speaker 1: You were in a Ruba, and I was in a
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Speaker 1: studio at CNN talking nearly every night about finding Natalie Holloway.
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Speaker 1: In fact, I remember, believe it or not, it was
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Speaker 1: my first work of fiction, as I recall that came out,
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Speaker 1: or maybe it was my very first book Objection, and
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Speaker 1: I was so afraid to leave seen in studios. We
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Speaker 1: nearly canceled the book release that night. Third I think
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Speaker 1: it was thirty minutes before it was it was time
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Speaker 1: to to start. The book released, this big deal in
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Speaker 1: my world. Anyway, I was, I think, on the phone
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Speaker 1: with you in a Ruba saying, I think we need
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Speaker 1: to call this thing off. She could be found in
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Speaker 1: any minute. I don't want to be, you know, trying
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Speaker 1: to talk about a book when Natalie is going to
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Speaker 1: be found. It was a breakthrough every five minutes, it seemed, allegedly,
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Speaker 1: and then they evaporated. There were so many dead in
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Speaker 1: leaves and Nancy, so many people lying about what happened
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Speaker 1: that night and still no conclusion. And that's my fear.
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Speaker 1: Right now, let's start best akwards for once. I never
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Speaker 1: would do this normally, but let's start with the breaking news.
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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the fact that and this is not
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Speaker 1: just some you know, reporter announcing that they think they
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Speaker 1: found something. This is her father. What what do we
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Speaker 1: know art? What is his belief? People have come out
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Speaker 1: of the woodwork to approach them over the years, including
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Speaker 1: remember Jordan Vanderslute you're in apparently came forward with with
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Speaker 1: news that he would tell where the remains were to
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Speaker 1: the mother, and of course that turned out to be
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Speaker 1: a ruse two and demand apparently he paid. Now, why
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Speaker 1: are you starting with that? When I said the breaking news?
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Speaker 1: You know what myself? Do I have to Q and
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Speaker 1: A with myself. Don't lead me up to the breaking
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Speaker 1: news is have we found the body? That That's what's
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Speaker 1: happening right now. Tips a tipster tells the father and
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Speaker 1: t J. Someone t J found that he knows that
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Speaker 1: there are remains he believes in in in a house
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Speaker 1: or near a house in Aruba. That's all they have announced.
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Speaker 1: And they go there and they dig and they find
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Speaker 1: what they say now are confirmed human remains. Don't know
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Speaker 1: if it's Natalie. There hopes her up. They've been up
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Speaker 1: before and dashed. They have now taken the bones and whatever.
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Speaker 1: They have to be analyzed by a quote prestigious DNA lab.
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Speaker 1: We won't know for several weeks as uh the father uh,
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Speaker 1: And so everyone is on pins and needles. Again. Hopes
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Speaker 1: are high that maybe they can get closure if this
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Speaker 1: is confirmed to be Natalie's remains are Do you remember
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Speaker 1: the video of Natalie Hallway? I showed it a million
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Speaker 1: times of her in her I want to say, baton.
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Speaker 1: I think she was her out on football field with
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Speaker 1: a group of other girls and there a cheerleading or
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Speaker 1: dance outfits. And I played it so many times it
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Speaker 1: actually it hurt me to even look at it. And
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Speaker 1: then there was another clip I played a lot of
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Speaker 1: her in the backseat of a car. I think her
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Speaker 1: mom was driving, and I'm pretty sure she was wishing
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Speaker 1: her mom a happy birthday and just talking and art.
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Speaker 1: You know, both of you guys have children. I got
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Speaker 1: to where I couldn't stand to even look at it
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Speaker 1: to think what she went through and that desperate search
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Speaker 1: her parents landing and essentially uh An island belonging to
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Speaker 1: the novel and Antilles and having no idea what to
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Speaker 1: do to find their girl. So now, just like you said,
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Speaker 1: there's been so many tips that fell through. I I've
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Speaker 1: been with you are remember when there was the tar pit,
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Speaker 1: and there was the beach, and then there was there
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Speaker 1: were all the searches in the ocean, and then they
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Speaker 1: thought a human skull had been found at the bottom
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Speaker 1: of the ocean near Aruba. That's just a few of
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Speaker 1: the many, many false tips. But the fact that the
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Speaker 1: father himself is saying that this could be Natalie, to me,
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Speaker 1: that carries a lot of weight. This is not just
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Speaker 1: some coup that's snorkeling, you know, on a vacation day
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Speaker 1: on the tip of a ruby, and thanks he finds
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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway. This is the father. This is someone who
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Speaker 1: has not given up on his daughter. I mean, the
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Speaker 1: whole family has has been obsessed with finding a killer,
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Speaker 1: which has is pretty much presumed to be who we know.
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Speaker 1: But no charge has ever brought for this, this this murder. UH,
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Speaker 1: and they will not give up. He has been uh
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Speaker 1: dedicated to finding out what happened to his daughter. Twelve
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Speaker 1: years Imagine that Nancy, and here you have him still
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Speaker 1: on the hunt with a respected private investigator and they
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Speaker 1: have received mixed greetings. In a Rube, as you know,
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Speaker 1: is a place rife with corruption and double dealings. A father,
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Speaker 1: if you were in vander Slute as a judge, there
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Speaker 1: have been so many nections and you know, reasons to
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Speaker 1: cover this up from their point of view that you know,
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Speaker 1: he's up against an almost impossible task, So they're not
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Speaker 1: revealing the source who led them to this tip. A
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Speaker 1: lot of people are afraid what would happen to them
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Speaker 1: should they be identified as the tipster who keeps a
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Speaker 1: Aruba in the public eye with a black eye. This
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Speaker 1: is a place that I have no you said, presumed
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Speaker 1: to be the killer you're in Vanderslute. His father, Paula's
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Speaker 1: Vanderslute was a judge in a Ruba, and when we
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Speaker 1: tried to ask him questions, all you saw were elbows
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Speaker 1: and tail hole because he just took off running. The
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Speaker 1: video is a Paulice Vandersloute judge Paul's Vanderslute running away
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Speaker 1: from the camera rather than answering any questions about Natalie Holloway.
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Speaker 1: Long story short, can't be too hard on Paulice Vanderslute,
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Speaker 1: although I think he was part of a cover up
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Speaker 1: in this whole thing to protect his son because he's dead.
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Speaker 1: His son gave him a heart attack on a tennis court. Okay,
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Speaker 1: so he's dead. Will never learn anything from him. I
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Speaker 1: want to go through all the many, many tips that
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Speaker 1: have been proven false. This one is different because it's
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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway's own father coming forward claiming that, according to
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Speaker 1: a friend very close to Yourn, vander Slut, the judge's
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Speaker 1: son there on the island of Aruba, who was last
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Speaker 1: seen with Natalie Holloway, according to that friend, Yourn vander
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Speaker 1: Slut gave her g h B Georgia Homeboy Gamma Hi
10:30
Speaker 1: droxy beauty rate, the date rate drug that she threw up,
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Speaker 1: choked and died. Do I believe that's what happened? No,
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Speaker 1: not at all. Why because in one statement you're in
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Speaker 1: vander Sloop described I think it was the flowered underwear
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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway had on when he left her at the
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Speaker 1: beach when she told him she wanted sex and he didn't. Right,
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Speaker 1: tell a high school boy you want to have sex
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Speaker 1: and he says no, and the girl says yes, yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's not happening, so that whole stories false. But this
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Speaker 1: is a friend of yourn vander Sluts that has led
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Speaker 1: the dad to the body or to the remains. Joseph
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan is with me, death scene investigator and forensics
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Speaker 1: professor at Jacksonville State University. If if this is these
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Speaker 1: are human remains, how can you tell that and what
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Speaker 1: do we do now? Joe Scott, It's a great question, Nancy. Uh.
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Speaker 1: One of my major problems with this whole thing. Uh
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Speaker 1: is a Ruba in and of itself, they're claiming that
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Speaker 1: they've come across human remains down there. Uh, it would
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Speaker 1: be an insult to the Keystone Cops to refer to
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Speaker 1: the constabulary in a Ruba as the Keystone Cops. It's
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Speaker 1: a train wreck down there. I don't understand how in
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Speaker 1: the world the scene was processed. I don't I don't
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Speaker 1: know how to verify that they've actually collected these remains.
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Speaker 1: I'd like to know what esteemed forensic anthropologists in that
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Speaker 1: huge place of a Ruba has declared that these are
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Speaker 1: in fact human remains. And here's another big question. They
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Speaker 1: claim it is being claimed that these remains are being
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Speaker 1: examined by a renowned DNA scientists. Okay, well that's all
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Speaker 1: fine and good. Let me ask you this question. How
12:15
Speaker 1: did you get the human remains out of a Ruba
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Speaker 1: and get them to this person to have them examined.
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Speaker 1: When did all of this take place, Who processed the scene,
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Speaker 1: who touched these remains. They're talking about DNA. One of
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Speaker 1: things we have to keep in mind, Nancy Is said,
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Speaker 1: DNA is very very fragile, and you're already talking about
12:35
Speaker 1: a very hostile environment in which a Ruba is not
12:38
Speaker 1: like any of the other Caribbean islands. It's almost desert like.
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Speaker 1: It's it's got cactus growing there. You're not gonna see
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Speaker 1: palm trees and all this stuff. It's completely different. People
12:47
Speaker 1: like to go there because they know the sun is
12:49
Speaker 1: always gonna be shining. It doesn't rain very much there,
12:52
Speaker 1: so imagine it remains rotting out of the desert in
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Speaker 1: the Southwest in America. It's very hostile. So who's touched
13:00
Speaker 1: these remains. I've got a lot of questions about this,
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Speaker 1: how this whole thing was processed, Who's going to be
13:06
Speaker 1: handling these these remains? And now I think the biggest
13:10
Speaker 1: part for me is that we have a phrase in
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Speaker 1: forensic science that's talked that talks about insight to investigation
13:20
Speaker 1: or observation. That means, if you have these remains, in
13:23
Speaker 1: order to get the full picture of what has happened
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Speaker 1: to this young lady, you have to observe the remains
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Speaker 1: in their original position. Now, how are you gonna do that? Now?
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Speaker 1: Who processed this scene? And and also how are you
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Speaker 1: going to determine cause of death? If there are some
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Speaker 1: type of trauma to this body or what remains of
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Speaker 1: this alleged body, how are you going to vet that? Uh?
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Speaker 1: I'm very curious as to how this thing is coming down.
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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily like the connection that's going on with
13:57
Speaker 1: the media here relative to wait, well, wait, hold on,
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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, hold on. What do you mean?
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Speaker 1: Are are you familiar with what Joseph Scott Morgan is
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Speaker 1: saying about a media connection? Well, I know that apparently
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Speaker 1: a crew from Oxygen followed t J and the father
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Speaker 1: on their hunt for these clues. Uh, and we're there,
14:18
Speaker 1: so you know you could go back to Haraldo and
14:21
Speaker 1: the uh, the al Capone tomb when it was revealed, Uh,
14:25
Speaker 1: you know what was behind their big build up and
14:27
Speaker 1: then nothing. So, uh, you know, Joe has a good point. Well,
14:31
Speaker 1: hold on, I find it very very difficult to believe,
14:34
Speaker 1: very difficult to believe that Nally's father would do a stunt.
14:40
Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, I don't think it's it's
14:42
Speaker 1: deliberate in any way. I think he's full of hope
14:45
Speaker 1: and and goodwill and the prayers for for a conclusion here.
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Speaker 1: But you know, if in fact, putting aside Joe's skepticism,
14:55
Speaker 1: which I agree with, there's so many questions. Uh, but
14:58
Speaker 1: you know as to the bona fide of how this
15:01
Speaker 1: is being examined. But you know, if if this outfit
15:05
Speaker 1: was helping them to proceed, and there you know, TV
15:09
Speaker 1: camera is probably better than a bodyguard. People are not
15:12
Speaker 1: going to mess with you if they think the world
15:14
Speaker 1: is watching. You know, that's the best insurance for them.
15:16
Speaker 1: So so they were there under that guy's and uh,
15:20
Speaker 1: you know, whether they're holding on to the results, we
15:24
Speaker 1: don't know. But that's a good question. Just a moment guys,
15:27
Speaker 1: before we before we throw the baby out with the
15:29
Speaker 1: bathwater on this. But just because a media crew is
15:35
Speaker 1: helping or funding it, that doesn't mean it ain't so
15:39
Speaker 1: number one, um number two. Very often media shine a
15:45
Speaker 1: light on something that otherwise would be unknown. For instance,
15:50
Speaker 1: who is this guy, who is this friend of yourn
15:53
Speaker 1: vander Sluts? How were they found? You know, I don't
15:57
Speaker 1: know that, but I guarantee you in many times in
16:00
Speaker 1: the past, if it weren't for media intervention, in any case,
16:04
Speaker 1: it would go unnoticed, or media intervention on information, it
16:09
Speaker 1: would go unnoticed and nobody would ever know about it.
16:13
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm glad. I'm glad because it's keeping
16:19
Speaker 1: the case alive. Come hell or high walk, that's true
16:25
Speaker 1: I have, but come hell or high water, it's keeping
16:28
Speaker 1: the case alive. I just hope there's not a heartbreak
16:33
Speaker 1: at the end of this road for Natalie's family. Take
16:37
Speaker 1: a listen to it, Natalie Holloway's father said about his
16:42
Speaker 1: search for his daughter on NBC's Todate Listen. What's your
16:46
Speaker 1: level of confidence to you know throughout all this process.
16:50
Speaker 1: You know, over the last twelve years, Matt, We've had
16:52
Speaker 1: a number of disappointments, and I put up a wall
16:56
Speaker 1: trying to find something that's not gonna disappointing. And when
17:02
Speaker 1: we determined that these remains were human, I was shocked,
17:08
Speaker 1: and uh, I know that there's a possibility this could
17:11
Speaker 1: be someone else, and I'm just uh trying to wait
17:17
Speaker 1: and see. What would it mean to you to have
17:20
Speaker 1: that answer? It would be you know, finally the end,
17:25
Speaker 1: we're going to say in a second that you guys
17:27
Speaker 1: are taking part in a new show on Oxygen. And
17:30
Speaker 1: the reason I bring this up is I think there
17:31
Speaker 1: may be some people who are going to hear what
17:34
Speaker 1: you're talking about now and say, wait a second. They
17:35
Speaker 1: have a new show premiering, and now they have these
17:38
Speaker 1: remains and we're not sure and there's just some sort
17:40
Speaker 1: of promotion for this no show new show, and they're
17:43
Speaker 1: going to feel that this may be a little unsettling,
17:45
Speaker 1: maybe unsavory. How would you respond to that? Uh? We
17:48
Speaker 1: T J and I started into this eighteen months ago
17:51
Speaker 1: and we decided that at that point in time, whether
17:54
Speaker 1: we have cameras or no cameras, Oxygen came on with
17:57
Speaker 1: us and decided that and we decided that you guys
18:00
Speaker 1: just watch us. We want to document this and in
18:03
Speaker 1: this series you'll see in several incidentss where if the
18:07
Speaker 1: camera was not on us and then we would never
18:12
Speaker 1: be where we're at now. There you hear Natalie Holloway's
18:17
Speaker 1: father still searching all these years for answers. That was
18:20
Speaker 1: him on NBC's Today Show. The reality is, we know
18:24
Speaker 1: you're in vander Salute is the killer the judges son
18:28
Speaker 1: from Ruba. Just imagine sending your child on a senior trip, Okay,
18:33
Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's say, we're having a lock in
18:35
Speaker 1: at the church this weekend. And I can't say that
18:37
Speaker 1: I brain washed them, but the children are not going
18:41
Speaker 1: so I mean, really, I think of them running up
18:43
Speaker 1: and down the steps. What could happen? Now? You send
18:47
Speaker 1: your kid away on what a four or five day
18:51
Speaker 1: trip on a boat, You think nothing's gonna go wrong? There,
18:54
Speaker 1: tons of chaperones, and you never see her alive again.
19:01
Speaker 1: It's almost unfathomable for me to even think that, But
19:06
Speaker 1: that is what happened to Natalie Holloway's parents. Listen to
19:12
Speaker 1: Natalie's mom, Beth, also on the Today Show NBC. Listen,
19:18
Speaker 1: it's been a roller coaster in the sense, hasn't at Beth?
19:20
Speaker 1: And that you know you'd get leads and and I'm
19:22
Speaker 1: sure your hope sword that we're going to find out.
19:25
Speaker 1: Have you given up hope that you will find Natalie ever,
19:29
Speaker 1: or do you or do you think I've given up
19:31
Speaker 1: hope on finding out what happened to her? Two different things. Well,
19:34
Speaker 1: I actually I do think it's it's very possible that
19:38
Speaker 1: we could find more information, and of course it's it's
19:42
Speaker 1: up to Iran, who obviously has the information, and he's
19:45
Speaker 1: not talking right now. But I do think that it's
19:47
Speaker 1: still possible that we could find where her remains are.
19:51
Speaker 1: Of course I no longer believe that Natalie is alive,
19:54
Speaker 1: so but I do feel it is possible. I remember
19:58
Speaker 1: at the time that she went missing, and it became
20:01
Speaker 1: evident to me that nobody was going to do a
20:05
Speaker 1: thing about apprehending yourn Vander Salute, that he was protected
20:09
Speaker 1: by his father and others in Aruba, and that they
20:13
Speaker 1: didn't give a flying fig about an American girl. They
20:17
Speaker 1: didn't and they did nothing to help, nothing to help
20:20
Speaker 1: her parents. I said, I remember at art this is
20:24
Speaker 1: before I knew you, Joseph Scott Morgan, that this guy
20:28
Speaker 1: would act again, and he did. He murdered and is
20:32
Speaker 1: convicted of murdering Stephanie Tassiana Flores. She met him at
20:39
Speaker 1: a casino. She's a young girl too, about twenty one
20:41
Speaker 1: years old, beautiful girl, long black hair. They strike up
20:45
Speaker 1: a conversation. She's found dead. As a matter of fact,
20:49
Speaker 1: evidence suggests that while he was sitting there in the
20:54
Speaker 1: room with her dead body, he kicks back with a
20:58
Speaker 1: doughnut and coffee a couple of feet from her dead body.
21:03
Speaker 1: From what the evidence shows, she ran a search on
21:07
Speaker 1: him while they were sitting there in the room together
21:10
Speaker 1: and pulled up the Natalie Holloway case and said are
21:14
Speaker 1: you this your? Is this you? And he goes berserk
21:20
Speaker 1: and murders her. Murders her in a brutal death. That's
21:25
Speaker 1: two dead girls on yourn Vanderslute, and still he has
21:31
Speaker 1: not been brought to justice in the death of Natalie Holloway.
21:35
Speaker 1: So question to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and
21:39
Speaker 1: forensics professor, how long will it take to match up
21:44
Speaker 1: a d N A. I mean, there's field d NA
21:46
Speaker 1: t S has been used by the US for decades
21:49
Speaker 1: at wartime and that's immediate, immediate DNA result. What about that?
21:56
Speaker 1: I'm thinking? Nanswered that the the father as well as
22:02
Speaker 1: this investigator are gonna want to take their time uh
22:05
Speaker 1: in having this uh this these samples uh analyzed. Uh.
22:10
Speaker 1: One of the big problems that they're going to run
22:12
Speaker 1: into is uh the viability of of the of the
22:17
Speaker 1: DNA that they have this uh, this base level DNA.
22:22
Speaker 1: Can't you get bone marrow? Well? You can. However, however,
22:26
Speaker 1: considering the environment and what we refer to as taffonomy,
22:30
Speaker 1: which means the distribution of the remains in their particular
22:34
Speaker 1: area and what they are exposed to, that's going to
22:36
Speaker 1: create a problem as well as who comes in contact
22:40
Speaker 1: with with these remains. That's not going to change the DNA,
22:42
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. I mean, I'm just a trial lawyer, but
22:45
Speaker 1: people touching the remain it's not going to change the DNA. Yes,
22:48
Speaker 1: it will. It can compromise, it will not compromise bone
22:52
Speaker 1: marrow found inside of about Well, let's say that the
22:56
Speaker 1: bone marrow is no longer viable. Well, don guys, let's
22:59
Speaker 1: go to the lines. Let's go out to Jason in Canada. Hi, Jason,
23:03
Speaker 1: how are you man? I'm good? How are you doing?
23:05
Speaker 1: I'm great? I am great. Hey what part of Canada? From?
23:09
Speaker 1: What part of Canada are you coming? Yeah? From what
23:12
Speaker 1: part of Canada are you calling? Nomasa? Okay, now, So, Jason,
23:16
Speaker 1: what do you think about this whole thing? I got
23:18
Speaker 1: a quick question. Why wasn't Jordan's um charged from the
23:22
Speaker 1: connection of Halowise disapparent? Oh, Jason and Canada. Let me
23:26
Speaker 1: tell you something why he wasn't charged? Well? Number one,
23:31
Speaker 1: his father, Paula's vander Salute was a judge, a longtime judge, uh,
23:36
Speaker 1: and influential, longtime influential character in Aruba. Aruba isn't as
23:41
Speaker 1: big as what it's probably about the size of maybe Ohio,
23:46
Speaker 1: is that right art the whole island or not even
23:48
Speaker 1: that big. Yeah, not not even that big. But you
23:51
Speaker 1: know he was. He was totally influential. And you might
23:54
Speaker 1: remember I didn't you were and spend a night or
23:56
Speaker 1: two in the local jail, but was quickly let go.
23:59
Speaker 1: The fall father's house was processed. Uh, and the little
24:03
Speaker 1: house out back where you're in stayed and my sources
24:05
Speaker 1: say where he took many young women. Uh. So so
24:09
Speaker 1: this was a place that you know where a cover
24:13
Speaker 1: up uh you know was grown in Petrie dishes. I
24:16
Speaker 1: mean every there were so many us, so many connections
24:19
Speaker 1: and uh. This was also jumping off point Nancy Ruble
24:22
Speaker 1: for for big drug smugglers bringing things back to the States,
24:26
Speaker 1: and my d e A sources UM say they were
24:29
Speaker 1: you know, they are really limited to feds are limited
24:32
Speaker 1: in what they can do. But they were biting their tongue. Uh,
24:35
Speaker 1: you know, what do you mean the FEDS are limited
24:38
Speaker 1: and what they could do. I have friends at uh
24:41
Speaker 1: the children's school that are convinced the FEDS are listening
24:43
Speaker 1: in on their their alexa. I'm like, okay, um, but
24:48
Speaker 1: making note. I need to put that in my next book.
24:50
Speaker 1: The Feds limited and what they could do? Why are
24:53
Speaker 1: you even saying that aren't this is? This is well, no,
24:55
Speaker 1: this was you know, they have to have permission to
24:58
Speaker 1: come on this island. Didn't work with the police. They
25:01
Speaker 1: did provide helicopter searches for the body in the ocean
25:05
Speaker 1: area that vander slewtin some His pal said Nancy, Uh
25:09
Speaker 1: that Natalie was was either dumped or drowned in and
25:13
Speaker 1: never found anything. But to get down on the ground
25:16
Speaker 1: and supervise these these searches. Uh. You know, they don't
25:20
Speaker 1: want anybody looking under their shoulders in a rub but
25:22
Speaker 1: because there's too much to hide, man, that's a good point.
25:25
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this about what Jason and Canada
25:27
Speaker 1: is asking why do you believe other than the dad
25:30
Speaker 1: covering up for him and the mom uh sticking her
25:33
Speaker 1: head in the sand and her butt in the air
25:35
Speaker 1: like an ostrich, why was he never prosecuted on Natalie's disappearance?
25:41
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, Art, don't you remember when he
25:44
Speaker 1: was set up to talk that time, uh in the
25:47
Speaker 1: suv and he was talking and there were hidden microphones
25:50
Speaker 1: in there, and he described the moment that Natalie died,
25:53
Speaker 1: that she started shaking and went into convulsions and died.
25:57
Speaker 1: I mean, how would he know that if he's not
25:58
Speaker 1: the killer? Well, very can vincing Nancy, But has he
26:01
Speaker 1: ever told the truth about anything? And so you've balanced
26:04
Speaker 1: that that high drama which he later retracted. This was
26:07
Speaker 1: a great ruse by excellent Dutch investigative reporter to get
26:11
Speaker 1: him alone, win his confidence. But but he's an actor.
26:15
Speaker 1: He's a bad actor, and we don't know the veracity
26:18
Speaker 1: of that. I was think, did t j Award ever
26:20
Speaker 1: do please stop it? Stop it. You're you're you're making
26:23
Speaker 1: my ears bleed just hearing what you're saying. Because Joe
26:27
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, come on, every time somebody gave a confession.
26:30
Speaker 1: If they could they go, oh yeah, you know what
26:32
Speaker 1: I was lying. I was acting of course that they'd
26:35
Speaker 1: be walking out of the jail house right now if
26:37
Speaker 1: you could get out because you said I was lying,
26:40
Speaker 1: Please stop it or I'm a little shocked to you.
26:43
Speaker 1: We wait, help me out, Joe Scott, throw me a
26:45
Speaker 1: life preserve. Well, you know, every uh they say that
26:48
Speaker 1: prisons are filled filled with innocent people. So there you go.
26:51
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean every time this happens. Uh and
26:55
Speaker 1: uh it sounds like uh vander slut himself is is
27:01
Speaker 1: a professional uh con artist. Uh. And I don't know,
27:05
Speaker 1: say he's got a lot of sociopathic tendencies here. He
27:08
Speaker 1: can manipulate people. And I think that in this, in
27:11
Speaker 1: this tiny little island, he was capable of doing that.
27:14
Speaker 1: But now this international spotlight was thrown on him. And
27:17
Speaker 1: as you earlier mentioned, you know you talked about his
27:19
Speaker 1: dad running off into the dark instead of facing the
27:22
Speaker 1: cameras's you can quote me, I said, elbows. You know
27:26
Speaker 1: you were much more elean eloquent in that than I.
27:29
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying that, you know, in that context, Uh,
27:33
Speaker 1: they're used to, you know, kind of this their little Kingdom,
27:35
Speaker 1: their little domain there, and when this international light is
27:38
Speaker 1: thrown upon them. Uh, you know, the litmus test changes
27:41
Speaker 1: a little bit. Jason, did you know that it was
27:45
Speaker 1: five years to the day after Natalie's disappearance that you're
27:51
Speaker 1: in Vander Slute killed murdered business students Stephanie Tassiana Flores
27:57
Speaker 1: five years to the day. That's one time I wish
28:00
Speaker 1: that I hadn't been right. And that was of course
28:03
Speaker 1: I wasn't the only one that said it that he
28:06
Speaker 1: would strike again because he was so young at the
28:10
Speaker 1: time he murdered Natalie and lied so well you could
28:15
Speaker 1: tell he was a psychopath. Then. I'm certainly no doctor,
28:18
Speaker 1: but even I could tell that. Jason. Yeah, he's a
28:21
Speaker 1: very scary guy. You know. Natalie's dad is saying a
28:25
Speaker 1: friend and actually an informant who lived with a friend
28:29
Speaker 1: of yourn Vander Salute, gave the tip which has led
28:33
Speaker 1: to the remains. And I'm quoting Natalie's father. He the
28:38
Speaker 1: informant had information that took us to a spot where
28:40
Speaker 1: remains were found, and we took those remains and we
28:43
Speaker 1: have are having those remains tested. We chased a lot
28:47
Speaker 1: of leads and this one by far is the most
28:50
Speaker 1: credible lead I have seen in twelve years. Now, can't
28:56
Speaker 1: you look at bones and tell if it's a man
29:01
Speaker 1: or a woman? Isn't that true, Joe Scott? I mean,
29:03
Speaker 1: forensic anthropology tells us that much. Yes, they do, uh,
29:07
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of a brief, very very brief overview.
29:10
Speaker 1: The male bones are gonna tend to be uh more
29:13
Speaker 1: robust than female bones. For instance, we'll look at the pelvis,
29:16
Speaker 1: We'll look at uh, you know, the fine nature of
29:20
Speaker 1: the female structure as opposed to more the robust nature
29:23
Speaker 1: of the male structure. So yeah, yeah, yeah, those things
29:25
Speaker 1: can be determined just by visualizing the bones. To Aret Harris,
29:28
Speaker 1: where do we go? Now, what do you think is
29:31
Speaker 1: happening now? Because they're not even telling this this is
29:34
Speaker 1: whether these are female bones? Well, you know, first, let's
29:38
Speaker 1: go back to who was he with that night? Haven't
29:41
Speaker 1: heard mention of the Kalpo brothers who claimed that he
29:44
Speaker 1: and Natalie were making out in the backseat of the
29:45
Speaker 1: car before they dropped her off. Now, uh, well, let's
29:50
Speaker 1: look at some of these people who could be uh
29:53
Speaker 1: closest to your in and could be finally coming forward
29:56
Speaker 1: for some reason that that they didn't way back then. Um,
30:00
Speaker 1: but but you know, you gotta wonder who are these folks?
30:04
Speaker 1: And uh uh you know where where else? You know,
30:07
Speaker 1: what other clues might they be leading to and what
30:09
Speaker 1: are their motives? But here? Who are these you know?
30:12
Speaker 1: Is there any credibility with these people? Uh? And um
30:15
Speaker 1: it's like other people on the island who were close
30:17
Speaker 1: to your end, you know, when anything lying whenever he
30:20
Speaker 1: opens his mouth. You know, I hate to be negative,
30:23
Speaker 1: but uh uh you know these were these were the
30:26
Speaker 1: the Surnamese brothers, d Pat, Calpo and Satish. You remember, Um,
30:32
Speaker 1: I remember them well and so uh I wish I
30:35
Speaker 1: didn't know, But wouldn't wouldn't they be interesting to talk to?
30:38
Speaker 1: Uh if they have new memories? And do you remember
30:41
Speaker 1: the memories? You know the reason that he he said
30:48
Speaker 1: he went nuts that night and killed this other girl.
30:50
Speaker 1: It was the anniversary of Natalie Holloway's disappearance, and he
30:55
Speaker 1: was very stressed. That was one of the excuses. He
30:58
Speaker 1: was so stressed. He kick back and had a coffee
31:01
Speaker 1: in a Danish with his legs crossed on the coffee
31:04
Speaker 1: table about two feet by the proving defense lawyers. That's
31:11
Speaker 1: briefing proceeds, don't we Nancy, So, I guess don't know
31:14
Speaker 1: what I've told my children. I'm going to use the
31:16
Speaker 1: S word on you. I'm using the S word on
31:18
Speaker 1: you that we are not allowed to use in our home.
31:21
Speaker 1: Shut up. Okay, there's the s H word, which is
31:24
Speaker 1: shut up and the S word, which is stupid, both disallowed.
31:28
Speaker 1: Listen to Natalie's dad as he reveals the latest in
31:33
Speaker 1: the search for Natalie Holloway, Alabama beauty. This investigation has
31:37
Speaker 1: yielded something significant. What is it? Team? Over a period
31:40
Speaker 1: of eighteen months, t J and I've been working together
31:43
Speaker 1: with an informant who has uh given us some information
31:47
Speaker 1: through a friend of your bandor sluts and we followed
31:51
Speaker 1: that for eighteen months. And I'll let t J finish
31:53
Speaker 1: the rest. We're did in an eighteen months undercover investigation
31:57
Speaker 1: and with an informant who were friends with a individual
32:01
Speaker 1: that was with had personal knowledge with You're on vanish
32:05
Speaker 1: lout and gathered information which took us to a spot
32:09
Speaker 1: um where remains were found, and we took those remains
32:12
Speaker 1: and had those remains tested and they just returned last week.
32:15
Speaker 1: That's our human remains. When this informant talked to you
32:18
Speaker 1: about the place where Natalie may have been buried. Did
32:20
Speaker 1: you find the remains immediately? Did it? Was it trial
32:23
Speaker 1: and error? Did you have to look for days? Weeks?
32:25
Speaker 1: You said you had eighteen months here. We've been back
32:28
Speaker 1: there several times, back and forth, and he's taken us
32:31
Speaker 1: to different places. But they went there and went to
32:34
Speaker 1: a place behind a house that we were had under investigation,
32:37
Speaker 1: and went behind the house and dug some remains up,
32:41
Speaker 1: and those remains were turned over to us, and we
32:44
Speaker 1: had those remains tested and they had just come back
32:46
Speaker 1: the human remains, but said, we know that the human
32:48
Speaker 1: remains will there be able to be some kind of
32:50
Speaker 1: test ave that will be answer once and for all
32:52
Speaker 1: whether this is Natalie. We're in the process of doing
32:54
Speaker 1: a DNA test and that test will take several weeks
32:59
Speaker 1: to and hopefully we'll know at that point in time
33:03
Speaker 1: that is Natalie Holloway's dad revealing a blockbuster in the
33:07
Speaker 1: search from Alabama teen Natalie Holloway, he goes missing on
33:10
Speaker 1: your senior trip to Aruba. The trip was very heavily chaperoned.
33:16
Speaker 1: All the students were out that night at a casino.
33:20
Speaker 1: Natalie had one drink. She was not drunk nothing. She
33:23
Speaker 1: had one drink. She was there with her girlfriends and
33:26
Speaker 1: the next thing you know, after that one drink, she
33:30
Speaker 1: was in the backseat of a car with Yourn Vander Slute,
33:33
Speaker 1: the Auruban judge's son, with the Calpo brothers driving the car.
33:38
Speaker 1: She was never seen alive again. Right now, we are
33:42
Speaker 1: taking your calls in the renewed search for Natalie Holloway,
33:46
Speaker 1: her own father. This is just not some freelance She's
33:51
Speaker 1: string reporter out there saying they've got a big break.
33:54
Speaker 1: This is her father, Natalie's father, saying that based on
33:59
Speaker 1: a tip close to your Vander Salute, human remains have
34:04
Speaker 1: been found and are being processed. Now out to the lines.
34:07
Speaker 1: Brandy in Oklahoma. Hello, Brandy, thank you for calling in.
34:11
Speaker 1: What's your comment or question? Well, I'm I'm excited that
34:15
Speaker 1: the family may have closure. Now, Um, this is just
34:19
Speaker 1: a satur case. I've been following it since the beginning
34:22
Speaker 1: and with the family and and I hope this is
34:26
Speaker 1: this is what they've been waiting for. Brandy, I couldnot
34:29
Speaker 1: agree with you more. Now you say closure, I agree
34:34
Speaker 1: and disagree in the sense that I mean you can't
34:37
Speaker 1: even really start grieving until you have put your loved
34:44
Speaker 1: one at rest. I mean, Brandy, you're you're right. There
34:50
Speaker 1: are all those reports that Natalie Holloway was kidnapped, that
34:53
Speaker 1: she was sold into human trafficking. At the time, I
34:57
Speaker 1: pooh pooed it. But now that I oh the statistics
35:01
Speaker 1: on human trafficking in another part of the world especially,
35:06
Speaker 1: I may have been wrong to pooh pooh it the
35:09
Speaker 1: way that I did, But in light of the fact
35:12
Speaker 1: that she was last seen with a convicted murderer, I
35:16
Speaker 1: don't think human trafficking was what happened. I think he
35:20
Speaker 1: killed her. That he raped her and killed her. That's
35:22
Speaker 1: what I think happened. So, Brandy, what do you make um?
35:25
Speaker 1: Natalie's father on the Today Show announcing that they have
35:29
Speaker 1: found human remains. I just can't believe it. Uh. Like
35:35
Speaker 1: I said, I pray that you know that it's her.
35:38
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like you said, you know, the
35:39
Speaker 1: family does need closure to move on, and I'm praying
35:43
Speaker 1: for them. It's funny, you know, Brandy Nuklahoma that to
35:46
Speaker 1: use the word I use the words I was shocked.
35:49
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. The father, now his dad,
35:54
Speaker 1: Dave Holloway. Those were his exact words, and I'm quoting
35:58
Speaker 1: when we determine the remains were human. I was shocked.
36:03
Speaker 1: That's what he told Matt Lower and my old Court
36:06
Speaker 1: TV friend Savannah Guthrie on the Today Show quote, I
36:10
Speaker 1: know there's a possibility this could be someone else, and
36:14
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to wait and see. Brandy, I couldn't
36:18
Speaker 1: help but notice a baby in the background when you
36:20
Speaker 1: were speaking. Is that your baby? Oh? You lucky girl,
36:26
Speaker 1: I asked the twins all the time. Can't you just
36:28
Speaker 1: get back at Mommy's tell me and we start over
36:30
Speaker 1: and do it all again. Oh my stars, I know
36:32
Speaker 1: you're probably exhausted right now taking care of a baby,
36:35
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you, these are the best years of
36:37
Speaker 1: my life. And can you imagine pouring all your love
36:42
Speaker 1: into that baby, all your hopes for them, all your
36:47
Speaker 1: dreams for them, and then some a hole like you're
36:52
Speaker 1: in Vander Salute enters the picture and everything goes dark.
37:00
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine that? Horrible? I don't, I don't
37:03
Speaker 1: even want to imagine that. I mean, I just so sad,
37:07
Speaker 1: you know, Brandy and Oklahoma. In all my spare time,
37:12
Speaker 1: I actually stay up nights and try to finish it.
37:14
Speaker 1: I do um photo albums of the twins and I
37:18
Speaker 1: go through and I you know right what this was
37:21
Speaker 1: and what that was, so they'll have it when they
37:23
Speaker 1: grow up and they can look back on it when
37:25
Speaker 1: they're much older. And when I think of looking at
37:30
Speaker 1: that shelf and what Natalie's parents go through, it ends
37:34
Speaker 1: at age eighteen. That was it. Eighteen summers, eighteen Christmas
37:39
Speaker 1: is that's it and it's over. And I know that
37:42
Speaker 1: they probably tortured themselves, like why did I let her
37:45
Speaker 1: go on the trip? That was wrong? What was I thinking?
37:48
Speaker 1: Brandy Um, thank you for calling in. We're all on
37:51
Speaker 1: pins and needles, and many prayers have gone up regarding
37:54
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway. I want to go back to art Harris,
37:58
Speaker 1: what what's going to happen? Now? Where do you think
38:00
Speaker 1: this thing is going? I don't think this is a stunt.
38:02
Speaker 1: I really don't because I feel that I know Natalie's
38:06
Speaker 1: parents after reporting on this and speaking to them over
38:09
Speaker 1: over all this time trying to help find Natalie. I
38:12
Speaker 1: don't think they would do a stunt. I really don't.
38:15
Speaker 1: And you know the mom Nat Natalie's mom, Beth, A
38:19
Speaker 1: lot of people called it a stunt, but I didn't
38:21
Speaker 1: think it was a stunt when uh, I can't remember
38:24
Speaker 1: who it was, but a camera crew made it possible
38:27
Speaker 1: for her to get access to your vander Salute and
38:30
Speaker 1: jail after he murdered Stephanie Tassiana Flores, and she confronted
38:34
Speaker 1: him on camera about I think it was a hidden camera,
38:38
Speaker 1: but about what happened to Natalie, hoping that at least
38:42
Speaker 1: for some kind of closure, like Brandy just mentioned that
38:45
Speaker 1: he would tell her at least where was Natalie. It
38:47
Speaker 1: didn't work, and I don't think that was a stunt.
38:49
Speaker 1: I think that they, the camera crew, enabled it to happen,
38:54
Speaker 1: got access, got tickets, got her there. You know, it
38:58
Speaker 1: was with her during the process. I don't think this
39:00
Speaker 1: is a stunt. I really don't. Aren't. No, that was
39:03
Speaker 1: a brilliant try and answer anything, anything to pry things loose,
39:06
Speaker 1: and I you know, I would love to see her
39:09
Speaker 1: where the father go and try to find the guys
39:12
Speaker 1: he was with that night, to see if they might
39:13
Speaker 1: have had a change of heart. For all we know,
39:15
Speaker 1: they could be the secret sources. But there was a
39:18
Speaker 1: discrepancy you might remember, and where supposedly Natalie was dropped off,
39:23
Speaker 1: Remember the Cowpo brothers initially told police that was at
39:27
Speaker 1: the Holiday Inn where they were staying. Well, a guard
39:31
Speaker 1: at the how at the guard at the Holiday Inn
39:33
Speaker 1: later who was in jail for a while talked to
39:36
Speaker 1: the brothers and said that, oh, no, they dropped her
39:39
Speaker 1: off ten blocks north near the Marriott and one report
39:44
Speaker 1: uh said that that's perhaps where she was buried. So
39:47
Speaker 1: I don't know what uh dumping ground this is supposed
39:50
Speaker 1: to be, but there are so many conflicting stories. Why
39:54
Speaker 1: not go back to the only witnesses or the only
39:57
Speaker 1: friends that claim Vanderslute was a running buddy, uh and
40:02
Speaker 1: and talk to them again. I think that would be something,
40:06
Speaker 1: so just got Morgan. Uh. We They still aren't revealing
40:09
Speaker 1: if it's even a female bone. Do you remember that
40:13
Speaker 1: earlier on this case bones were found and it turned
40:15
Speaker 1: out to be an animal bone? Do you remember that? Yes?
40:18
Speaker 1: Yes I do, Nancy, I certainly do. So. How do
40:20
Speaker 1: I know what this is? Well? That that's the rub,
40:24
Speaker 1: as they say. The idea is that hopefully, hopefully they
40:29
Speaker 1: have gotten these remains into the hands of someone who
40:33
Speaker 1: knows what they're doing. That's going to be uh, well
40:37
Speaker 1: respected forensic anthropologists, those individuals that observe the bones uh
40:41
Speaker 1: and and make that that that determination, and then on
40:45
Speaker 1: top of that, get these bones into the hands of
40:48
Speaker 1: a reputable DNA scientists that can extract the DNA appropriately.
40:53
Speaker 1: If I could just go back a second talking about
40:56
Speaker 1: uh kind of kind of blending in with what Art
40:59
Speaker 1: was talking about. From an investigative standpoint, this is if
41:03
Speaker 1: this does in fact turn out to be Natalie's remains
41:07
Speaker 1: Nancy and they are at this location, this is a
41:09
Speaker 1: huge piece of information or or or evidence that can
41:14
Speaker 1: be used as leverage from an investigative standpoint, because now
41:18
Speaker 1: you have a specific geographic location where you can tie
41:22
Speaker 1: specific people to that location, such as the owner of
41:25
Speaker 1: the property, the people that frequent that location. So it's
41:29
Speaker 1: like a gigantic sweater. It's kind of what I teach
41:31
Speaker 1: my my students at Jacksonville State. If you pull on
41:34
Speaker 1: that string, which your mom always tells you not to,
41:37
Speaker 1: the whole thing begins to come unraveled. And you know
41:39
Speaker 1: this as a prosecutor. All it takes is to find
41:42
Speaker 1: that one string, and the fact that they're found at
41:44
Speaker 1: a specific location ties it back to a bigger picture.
41:49
Speaker 1: That hopefully will be revealed if in fact they have
41:52
Speaker 1: handled these remains appropriately. Right now, we apparently are still
41:56
Speaker 1: on standby to determine the truth about this, this discovery,
42:00
Speaker 1: the Natalie Holloway case. But art when you think about
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Speaker 1: it again, this is her own father saying this, not
42:06
Speaker 1: some reporter trying to make a buck. It is there
42:10
Speaker 1: on the island of Aruba, and the father says Dave
42:14
Speaker 1: Holloway says, it is human remains. It is human remains.
42:19
Speaker 1: Well that, Joe, I'd be fascinating to know how you
42:21
Speaker 1: can tell the difference from human remains are human bones
42:24
Speaker 1: and animal bones. But they somebody has determined that, uh
42:28
Speaker 1: per the father, and this has been an eighteen month investigation,
42:31
Speaker 1: he has said, so, so it's not just a drive by.
42:34
Speaker 1: Let's get some dirt and see what's down there. Uh.
42:37
Speaker 1: They have apparently analyzed this to be what they have found.
42:43
Speaker 1: I agree. Are you know that number kept coming up?
42:45
Speaker 1: Eighteen months? Eighteen months, that's a long time, man. And
42:48
Speaker 1: if they've had these remains, I don't know how long
42:51
Speaker 1: they've had these remains, and who has taken a look
42:53
Speaker 1: at them, who has handled them? That that's that's the
42:56
Speaker 1: big question my mind. It's not it's not that I'm
42:59
Speaker 1: skeptical as much as I am. I'm a pregnant this year.
43:02
Speaker 1: I just well, here's the other thing. I hate, the
43:04
Speaker 1: disappointment for the family if it turns out not to
43:08
Speaker 1: be Natalie, because there have been so many false leads.
43:11
Speaker 1: In fact, just recently Aruba prosecutor said that another tip
43:16
Speaker 1: about her location turned out to be false. They had
43:19
Speaker 1: just received a tip from a man who claimed to
43:21
Speaker 1: be a witness to her disappearance, and um that man
43:25
Speaker 1: had been identified as Urien Young. He insisted Holloway was
43:29
Speaker 1: buried under a staircase at the Marriott Hotel in Aruba.
43:33
Speaker 1: That turned out to be false. Um, of course, the
43:37
Speaker 1: whole team flew there and the hotel spyglass tower and
43:42
Speaker 1: staircase was built. Neither the tower nor the staircase was
43:49
Speaker 1: was there when Holloway went missing. And after all the
43:52
Speaker 1: drama surrounding that, the times didn't work out where the
43:56
Speaker 1: witness said she was buried that didn't even exist at
43:59
Speaker 1: the time she went missing. It's just been one thing
44:03
Speaker 1: after the next for Natalie Holloway's family, and I just pray,
44:08
Speaker 1: pray that their nightmare is over Nancy Grace crime stories,
44:14
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,