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Bonus: How Stories Can Help Children Manage Their Emotions: CBT in Story Form with Chantelle Wood · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:20
  Well, hello and welcome back.
• 0:22
  I have Chantelle Wood here on the show today and Chantelle and I met several months ago, wasn't it?
• 0:28
  At a mental health summit.
• 0:30
  And when I heard that she was the author of a new children's series, Mind City Heroes, which teaches kids how to talk back to their negative thoughts.
• 0:39
  Then I just knew that she needed to be here on the show.
• 0:42
  So in her books then the characters, then they go inside of a magical world of their own minds where they become superheroes, gain powers and defeat, or reason with, their negative thinking patterns.
• 0:53
  Chantel loves her family, learning and practicing to defeat her own negative thinking patterns.
• 0:58
  So Chantel, I just love so much what you do.
• 1:01
  You and I have Such similar missions and I just love it.
• 1:05
  I love that you're getting to audiences younger and younger so that we can get them those tools, yeah.
• 1:11
  I'm really excited about, um, being on here.
• 1:13
  Thanks for having me on.
• 1:14
  I'm, I'm excited about my books.
• 1:16
  I, I love talking about our thoughts and how they affect us, so.
• 1:20
  Yeah, I love it.
• 1:21
  I love that you're putting out this content.
• 1:23
  So you and I do have this shared passion for all things mental health.
• 1:27
  And I'm really curious what started you on this journey?
• 1:30
  Um, I think growing up, you have your ups and downs, you know, and I think I had a lot of indecisiveness and kind of anxiety sometimes.
• 1:39
  And when I, it kind of, Got exacerbated in college where I, I felt a lot of anxiety and, and I had a lot of physical symptoms from it.
• 1:48
  And, you know, I went to a bunch of doctors and they said, well, you're fine.
• 1:52
  It's probably just depression or something.
• 1:54
  And, and so, I Kind of pulled through it, but was always nervous about something coming back, you know, and I, I feel like it didn't really understand it and it hadn't really understood it.
• 2:06
  And then I found, a book called feeling good by David burns and it talks about, cognitive behavioral therapy, which is in the field of psychology.
• 2:15
  One of the biggest, therapies, it's kind of the gold standard for all things therapy, and it's based on the ideas that our thoughts cause our emotions.
• 2:22
  And that's what a lot of coaching is based on too, is just this idea that when we, when we understand our thoughts, we can understand how we're feeling and acting.
• 2:30
  And by changing our thoughts, we can change how we're feeling and acting and really going through that.
• 2:35
  And the book just goes through a bunch of examples.
• 2:37
  And I just really.
• 2:39
  For the first time kind of understood what was actually going on inside of my brain, and that was really powerful for me and it really has changed my life and how I just process things and, and it gave me confidence that if depression or anxiety come I kind of have tools to understand them and to sort through them.
• 2:57
  And so it's really helped me a lot and I just love sharing it with others because it's made such a difference in my life.
• 3:03
  Yeah, that is powerful.
• 3:04
  Thank you so much for sharing.
• 3:06
  Yeah, because I think about the youth now and everything that they face that wasn't a part of my childhood.
• 3:12
  And it seems like the anxieties, be it from, you know, intruder drills or, social media.
• 3:18
  I mean, a lot of things are coming up for these kids that weren't a part of our childhood and how powerful to be able to Put these things into story form in a language that they understand to teach them those tools right when they need it is such a gift to this world.
• 3:36
  So tell us a bit about your books and what age do you recommend them for?
• 3:40
  And yeah, tell us about them.
• 3:42
  Yeah.
• 3:42
  So I first got excited about the idea of books when I was, I think I listened to some kind of talk somewhere and they were talking about the power of stories and they talked about C.
• 3:52
  S.
• 3:52
  Lewis and J.
• 3:53
  R.
• 3:53
  R.
• 3:53
  Tolkien and how those stories were during like, I think it was during World War II or something like that, whereas, and that kind of changed how people thought about, you know, good and evil and how good can still win and gave people hope.
• 4:04
  And that got me thinking of just about the power of stories and how they can influence people.
• 4:08
  Um, and then later as I was discovering all this thought work, I just thought how powerful it would be to put this in a story for kids, because I know that kids.
• 4:16
  Do so well with stories and they don't like lectures or sitting there and that's good to you know to explain things and help them but sometimes I know that stories can be more powerful.
• 4:25
  And so those kind of two ideas came together and I decided to write a story that kind of explores the idea of how we can help our emotions by changing our thoughts.
• 4:36
  So the age group is about Five to 10, especially like six to nine, but if you help them read, you know, maybe a little bit younger, I've read it to my, I read it to her when she was four, my four year old.
• 4:49
  I don't know if she quite understood everything, but now that she's five, she can kind of understand more.
• 4:53
  and then up to like nine or 10.
• 4:55
  My 11 year old cousin said it was good, but maybe a little young for him.
• 4:58
  So, but yeah, it's, it's, it, it'll be a series, about 12, 12 books is what I'm thinking right now.
• 5:06
  so the first one's out right now called the all or nothing artist.
• 5:09
  so each of them goes through one of the cognitive distortions in cognitive behavioral therapy and cognitive distortions are just, you know, The incorrect thoughts that don't reflect reality.
• 5:21
  So this one's based on all or nothing thinking where you think, you know, I have to do, I have to be perfect or else it's a failure.
• 5:27
  Or if, if something isn't perfect, then it's a waste of time.
• 5:30
  And why did I even do it in the first place?
• 5:33
  Those kinds of thoughts.
• 5:34
  And, So for example, so this character, there's two main characters and I'll switch off between them both.
• 5:38
  So the main character, this one is Luke, and he goes and he's having a bad day at school because he got a few questions wrong on his math test.
• 5:46
  And he's really mad because he thought he did better than that.
• 5:49
  and, Cause he's having this kind of all or nothing thinking that if he didn't get perfect, why try?
• 5:56
  So he, discovers a magic notebook and pen.
• 5:58
  And when he writes in it, it, it transports him into the magical world of his mind.
• 6:02
  And there's, all you can, ice cream shops and dragons and piles of Cheetos and just kind of everything that has everything in his experience and brain is there.
• 6:14
  But there's someone causing problems and he finds out that it's an artists kind of spraying things kind of black or white and he needs to, figure out how to reason with him and fight him off to, conquer his own negative thoughts.
• 6:27
  Yeah.
• 6:28
  Yeah.
• 6:28
  Well, Chantel gave me a copy of the book and I read it and I loved it.
• 6:33
  And I also let my 10 year old nephew read it.
• 6:36
  And he really enjoyed it.
• 6:37
  He read through it so quick and I asked him how he liked it.
• 6:40
  And he said, yeah, it's pretty good.
• 6:41
  I'm like, do you think you'd read the next one?
• 6:43
  He said, yeah, I think it's in my top 10 favorites.
• 6:47
  He's a pretty avid reader and he liked it.
• 6:49
  And so it was fun to see how engaging it is for the kids.
• 6:53
  Like you said, like the Cheetos and all the things where you really do make it something that a kid would absolutely imagine and dream up and what else I really appreciate about it is in the back, then she has a list of discussion questions.
• 7:07
  And so it has questions like when did you see Luke using all or nothing thinking and thinking of the following situations and it gives you some talking points as a parent to kind of see what is really sinking in for your kids, but also, speaking to the power of story, I know oftentimes, even when I'm working with adult clients, sometimes they might have some blocks around hearing things or seeing things in a new way.
• 7:30
  But when I can share with them, Oh, well, let me tell you a story about Jane, you know, and can even for adults to hear in that story form, it seems to resonate on a deeper level, where it's almost like, okay, the ego can check out a little bit.
• 7:43
  It's just a fun story.
• 7:45
  But then you find yourself wanting to be like Luke, right?
• 7:49
  And so it's subtle, but it's definitely powerful as well.
• 7:53
  So yeah, can you tell us a bit about, having those questions and creating those discussions?
• 7:58
  What's the power of discussion between parent and child with reading these?
• 8:03
  Yeah, so, I mean, and you talk about being like adults too, and I know that even writing them was kind of cathartic for me at times, it just like re, re inspires me about the power of these ideas, when I'm writing them, like, oh, yeah, you know, and so, Yeah, I just know that story stories is good.
• 8:20
  And I think there's there's something to be gained just from stories.
• 8:22
  But having those discussion questions to can hopefully help both the child and the parent or whoever else is reading it to the child to really have that.
• 8:33
  extra application and that extra understanding of you can apply these ideas too.
• 8:40
  It's not just this is important in your life.
• 8:43
  And so I wanted that element to be in there and, and people can use it how they want, but if, if it helps children, if it helps even the adults, you know, that's, That's great.
• 8:52
  Yeah.
• 8:52
  And to see that, wow, my parents are even interested in this and talking about it and opening up that dialogue where, like you said, a lot of these tools are things that you didn't learn until adulthood.
• 9:02
  And so it may very well be the case that as a parent is reading these to the children, that they are also learning along side their child.
• 9:07
  So having that dialogue, to have it on the parents mind that, oh, hey, I'm going to go home and I'm going to tell my kid about this experience and to share those experiences as you're learning and growing together and modeling that for your kids modeling that emotional intelligence and modeling challenging that black and white thinking like the example of it is just awesome.
• 9:32
  I love that you put that in there.
• 9:35
  When I was younger too, I didn't know about this.
• 9:37
  So that was another reason.
• 9:38
  I was like, how did I not know about these powerful ideas till I was like in my twenties?
• 9:43
  Like this is so amazing.
• 9:44
  And, and so, yeah, and just seeing my kids and nieces and nephews and the kids around me, I just wanted to share that with them.
• 9:51
  So, yeah.
• 9:52
  So can you tell us a bit about a few of the other principles that are going to be showing up later in the series, you talked about the all or nothing thinking, what else can we expect to hear from you?
• 10:03
  Yeah, so the next book is about the other character, which you get introduced to in this book, named Sophia, and she's his classmate, and she also finds a magic notebook, but for her, her, antagonist is, the mislabeling monster, so labeling, like, I'm a bad this or that, or I'm, I'm just a failure, you know, it's kind of those labels that we put on ourselves that we don't even know what they mean, you know, like, what does, what does it mean to be a bad student or a bad friend or a bad mom, you know, it just kind of explores those ideas of maybe people are more than just one word and, and We have a lot to us and that we can learn and grow and that we're continually changing.
• 10:40
  so that's kind of the focus of the next book.
• 10:43
  and the one after that is the should shackles, that goes through shoulds, which I do a lot, you know, Oh, I should have done this.
• 10:50
  I should have, I should have known, or they should have done this, or they should have treated me differently, you know, and just kind of those things that aren't helpful.
• 10:58
  And that's, You know, it didn't happen.
• 11:00
  So who says that it should, you know, just kind of moving past those and accepting that it's okay.
• 11:05
  so those are some of the next books and then, yeah, I'll go through the rest of just different distortions, like magnification and catastrophizing.
• 11:13
  anyway, so those, those will be the rest of the series and it's all just based on the idea that they can go inside their minds and figure out what's going on.
• 11:20
  and they gain superpowers, each book, they gain a new superpower.
• 11:23
  And they do fight the bad guys, but they fight them to stop them long enough to have a conversation with them and reason them and say, well, that's not true.
• 11:31
  And that's not right.
• 11:32
  So they're kind of practice talking back to their own negative thinking, but kind of externalized in a different source.
• 11:39
  Yeah, I love that because it's so easy to believe our own voice because we think it must be true because it sounds just like us and we wouldn't lie to ourselves.
• 11:47
  But we really do lie to ourselves quite a bit, don't we?
• 11:51
  And I love the idea of that we're more than just one word.
• 11:54
  I think especially today with the cancel culture, it's like, well, you did one bad thing and now you're out.
• 12:00
  And it's like, yes, you can choose how and where you'd like to invest your money.
• 12:04
  And maybe we're not all good or bad, but maybe we're just human.
• 12:09
  And sometimes we do things that are good.
• 12:10
  And sometimes we make mistakes and the goal is to learn from it and to progress from it.
• 12:16
  So I love that you're teaching that.
• 12:17
  And then the should shackles, I'm totally going to use that phrase now should shackles.
• 12:21
  Cause I talked to my clients about"shoulding" on themselves.
• 12:24
  But the should shackles because it really does hold us back all of those self judgments that well, I should have done this or, or even judging other people, well, they should have done this and, and it really does shackle us and prevent us from having connection.
• 12:37
  So I'm really excited for those to come out.
• 12:40
  Yeah.
• 12:41
  So those are in progress right now.
• 12:43
  So do you have a timeline for when the rest are going to be coming out?
• 12:48
  Um, I'm hoping to get out another one or two by the end of the year, but I'm not quite sure.
• 12:54
  Yeah.
• 12:55
  Awesome.
• 12:55
  Well, when you're ready, let me know and I'll put a blast out for when the next ones are available.
• 13:04
  Awesome.
• 13:05
  Well, anything else that you want to share with us about your books or about your journey?
• 13:11
  No, I just love that what you're doing too with coaching and just helping people understand their thoughts.
• 13:15
  it's really been valuable for me.
• 13:17
  And, you know, and even just in our family too, because my husband's read it too.
• 13:21
  And we're on the same page.
• 13:22
  And, you know, when we talk to each other, sometimes we shorthanded as CBT is like thought work because that's cognitive behavioral therapy, but I was kind of, I felt frustrated at you today, but you know, I probably just need to CBT it.
• 13:34
  Cause I think the actual problem was I was thinking about this and that bugged me.
• 13:38
  and now with our kids too, you know, I I'm hoping this book will help us.
• 13:41
  I've kind of started to teach my kids.
• 13:43
  My oldest is five.
• 13:44
  So she's not quite old enough to really have, Super deep discussions.
• 13:48
  But with this and I tell her her brain is tricking her sometimes.
• 13:52
  anyway, I just am really passionate about it.
• 13:54
  And I love the work you do with helping people understand that.
• 13:57
  And because it really can change can't change us and how we Interact with the world.
• 14:03
  Yeah.
• 14:04
  Thank you so much.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  Cause I, I just love it.
• 14:06
  Cause we really do have the same mission.
• 14:07
  It's just different age groups, right?
• 14:10
  Exactly.
• 14:11
  So I'm certain that my audience will be very excited to grab your books so that they can start it with their kids even earlier.
• 14:17
  And I love that you're having those conversations where you're recognizing, okay, well, yep.
• 14:21
  It sounds like you have a tricky thought there and your thoughts are trying to trick you and, and also even just challenging those thoughts.
• 14:28
  Because I think too often we get stuck in either sad, mad or glad and we oversimplify those things.
• 14:34
  But to really challenge them can just bring so much more depth and awareness and help us with our communication with others.
• 14:42
  Right?
• 14:42
  Because if we just go and tell somebody I'm mad.
• 14:44
  That could mean so many things about whatever we need, but we can say, Hey, I'm feeling really frustrated because I didn't get my turn and it was supposed to be my turn, but then they went instead.
• 14:52
  Then we have something to talk about.
• 14:54
  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 14:56
  Really think about what's coming up for you and why, but yeah, challenge it a bit.
• 15:00
  Yeah.
• 15:01
  Yeah.
• 15:02
  Yeah, I definitely agree.
• 15:04
  Awesome.
• 15:04
  Well, thank you so much for being here.
• 15:06
  And can you tell people, first of all, where can they buy your book?
• 15:09
  And if they want to follow you, where can they follow your accounts and tell us where they can find you so they can know when the next book comes out?
• 15:17
  Yeah.
• 15:17
  So, uh, you can find me at www.mindcityheros.com and, you can buy the book there, or, it's available on a lot of different websites like Barnes and Noble and Amazon and things.
• 15:28
  and if you sign up for my mailing list, you can hear it when the next books come out.
• 15:33
  That's just on my website.
• 15:34
  I'm also on Facebook at Mind City Heroes Books and Instagram Mind City Heroes.
• 15:40
  Awesome.
• 15:40
  Okay.
• 15:40
  And I will be sure to put all of her contact information in the show notes.
• 15:44
  And then I will also link to the book feeling good by David Burns.
• 15:49
  I love hearing what it is that inspires people and what books have created change.
• 15:53
  So I haven't read that one and I'm totally adding it to my list because it sounds right up my alley.
• 15:59
  That is a very good, well, thank you so much for being here.
• 16:04
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 16:06
  All right.
• 16:06
  I hope you have a great week, everybody.
• 16:07
  Bye.
• 16:08
  Bye.