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How Corsets Work · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Charles Chuck Bryant, and Jerry Jerome Roland.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: So it's stuff you should know. Yeah, Jerry wore her
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Swan Bill corset today. Yes, she looks like a freak
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of nature. I'm nervous about this one. It's gonna go
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: ahead and say that, don't be really, Yeah, I'm nervous. Well,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: here I am to relax. You chuck me, pat your beard,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: give you a little nap. That didn't help making things worse. Yeah,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: this one, I don't know. I mean the history and
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: stuff is interesting, which I assume we'll talk to you first,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: since we don't plan this stuff out. But um, you know,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: we're all with a live and let live thing. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I certainly have no problem with a lady or a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: dude that wants to wear a corset or anybody. Okay,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: what's wrong? But when I started reading about the the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: uh the Guinness Book lady and I went to her
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: website and watch the YouTube, it just kind of freaked
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: me out a little bit. Cathy Young, Yeah, yeah, and
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about her later, but it kind of crossed
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the line to me to like weird obsessions with physical appearance.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: But then I think about, like, I'm not going to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: condemn anyone forgetting all the kinds of weird plastic surgery either,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: if that's your thing. I think that I just want
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: people to be happy, you know, right, But I think
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the um extreme lacing is one thing. It's called also
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: um well extreme lacing, I think is the general preferred term,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: right um tight lacing. Yeah, it's a perfect example of
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you're harming nobody. This is strictly your body. It's yours
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to do what you want with it, have at it. Yeah,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: but what if it's in the like because men say
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that's the only way a woman will be attractive, and like,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: what's different it's just been in footbinding. That to me
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: is sad and and it's a that's part of a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: larger issue, you know what I mean, Like if you're
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: doing it because you know you want to catch a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: man's attention or something like that, who knows, we're not
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: pop psychologists, and it just all this makes me nervous.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I did. Actually I had a conversation with um Holly
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: from miss in History stuff. You miss in history class.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: She's probably one of course it in her time. Yes, yes,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and she actually defends course it's too because I thought, well,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it's like the the Western equivalent of footbody. She said, no, no, no,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: my friend. Uh, it lacks in reality and actuality, a
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: lot of the um, a lot of the sexism associated
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: with footbindinging. That makes me feel a little bit better.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: And that course it's in in reality and truth. In
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the nineteenth century and before, we're um very much chosen
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to be worn by women for their own tastes, sometimes
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: at the out of spy or not out of spite,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: but um, contrary to what the with the men in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: their life might want or desire. Okay, okay, so it's
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: actually it's not necessarily a feminist article of clothing, although
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Madonna certainly made a case for that, so did Vivian Westwood. Um,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: but it's it's not as bad as you're thinking. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: think I do feel better now, do you? Yeah? Good.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to, you know, I don't want
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to make people feel bad. I want people to feel
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: good always. I want everyone to feel good. That's my problem. Yeah,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and we should say, if you're wearing a courser right now,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and it feels bad. Everything I've seen in my research
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: says you need to loosen that thing because it's not
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: supposed to hurt. Well yeah, and um even Cathy Young,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: who um again we will talk about. But she's againness
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: record holder because she formed her waists into the size
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of a jar mayonnaise. Um. Literally, oh yeah, gallant size mayonnaise.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: It said the thing I had said, an average jar,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that's correct unless those photos on
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: her site though look photo shopped. Okay, but she said that.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: All the advice she gave was you go slow. Don't like,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if you want to train your waists to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: be smaller, which you can do, um, don't you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: dive in and just start, you know, doing the extreme
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: lacing right away. No, there's into it. There's something called
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: um waste training, and that's kind of a uh it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: not necessarily the ultimate goal of corseting, which can be
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: a verb, but it is um a kind of a
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: parallels subculture of the corseting culture, and waist training is
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: simply where you are basically through the use of corsets
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and pretty tight course. It's over a period of time,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: usually about a decade. You are reshaping your body mechanically, right,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: you're not actually losing weight. Although a tight fitting corset
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: acts something like a gastric bypass surgery without the surgery
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: because you just can't put as much stuff in your
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: stomach is normal UM. But the waste training itself, it's
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: just it's a reshaping. It's not actually making you lose weight.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So what it's doing is taking uh inches out of
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the middle and sliding them down to the hips and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: all of this the whole point for course, it's from
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the beginning of course, it's to um. The world record
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: holding course at waste is to um amplify existing female
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: UM body features. Yes, that's the point, that's right. The
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: word uh comes from an old French word c o
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: r s, meaning body and UM. Here's the history, which
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: oddly came three quarters the way through this article. UH.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: If you go back in time and the way Back
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: machine to the days of ancient crete, there were women
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: who well I think he and before crete, there were
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: women who tied ropes around their waist to make their
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: waistline look slimmer acentuate maybe the bust and the rear end. Uh.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So they were doing that a long time ago and
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: then an ancient create. Um people think that they are historians,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: think through the first women that actually wore something that
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: you could call a corset. It was a garment that
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: shaped the body more than three thousand years ago, right
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: it um It covered the I think the waist and
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the hips and um crete and women went around um
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: bare breasted, so they would have their breasts like saying, hey, everybody,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: how's it going? And then below that was the corset okay,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And I would imagine um that it probably enhanced the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: breasts as well. Uh yeah, sure, if you're sent and
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: everything up like that probably probably acted sort of like
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a pre brazier support and lift. See them so uncomfortable
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a man. We did one on female puberty that was easier.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, well that was science. This is I see,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I see, you make a valid point. Uh So if
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you go forward a bit to the Middle Ages, they
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: um for the first time, these undergarments came out in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: something called the heavy stay, and it was very much
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: an outerwear, but it kind of accomplished the same goal.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: But it was you know, very decorative and and pretty um.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: But that I don't think that lasted too long. They
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: went back under the garment in the eighteenth century, right,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: and then um, up until the eighteenth century, most things
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: that were part of the Corset family tree or predecessors
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: of course it's were conical. Um no, they were tubular,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: totally tubular. And then once we hit I think about
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, what we start to see today as
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of course it began to emerge where that's conical, it's
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: cone shaped, right, um. And from from I guess, yeah,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the eighteen century on, of course, it's were like a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: pretty pretty much a mainstay of fashion, if not the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: basic ingredient of women's fashion from about the end of
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the sevres until World War One. Basically, yeah, it wasn't
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: like some weird thing like today. Um. I mean they're
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: still in fashion today, and if you know in certain
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: um like cosplay and costumes in the fetish world and
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: burlesque and stuff like that, or just you know, just
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: playing sexy time. Sure, regular old sexy time. But um,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the stuff I read said it was it was no
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: like more of a strange thing than like a woman
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: to wear a bra today, right exactly, it's just a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: regular fashion accessory. Yeah. And as we'll see, it was
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: like kind of essential depending on the clos you're wearing,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: depending on the period. Yeah, that's true. Um, there was
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: a a real movement. And when I was saying like
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: some men were saying like, you shouldn't be wearing corsets,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and women said, t s for you, Pal, I'm still
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: wearing a corset. There was actually a big movement that
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: was UM that came out of uh I guess the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: nineteenth century, late nineteenth century, that was spearheaded by two brothers,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Ira and Lucian Warner Um. And they came up with
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: an alternative too. They actually were anti corset crusaders. They
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: were both doctors, and they Um basically said you can't
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: beat them, join them, but let's try to create a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: corset that's less problematic for women. And the idea that
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: corsets were problematic for women can actually be traced back
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: to a sevente medical article by a guy named Dr
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Samuel Thomas von Sommering, and Um von Sommering basically made
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: up a lot of the myths about corsets that we
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: know today, that they can cause scoliosis, that they can
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: mess up your liver, that they can lead to permanent
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: deformation of your body and your internal or inns. Uh.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: It all kind of came from this and a hundred
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: years after Von Summering wrote his article, UM, the Warner
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Brothers got in and said, we're gonna come up with
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: a health health courset. Yeah, but they definitely can change. Um.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: There's something called uh viscer optosis or Glennard's disease, which
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: if you do the tight lacing long term, you're your
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: organs can actually sink and shift away from where they
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: should be. Right. So, I mean that's that's something that
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: can happen that there is a really good point, man,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: we should delineate here. Wearing a corset normally, even when
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you're doing waste training, should not result in that. There
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: is a definite line where if you are getting into
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: extreme corseting, then yes, all sorts of medical problems can happen. Um.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: But just about every corseting site out there on the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Internet will warn you about going past that line. And
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: in fact, there was a really there's a good um
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: site by Orchard Corsets. They sell corsets. They have a
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: really extensive site. You know, there's stuff about corsets. They
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: actually say one of the ways that the body can
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: be deformed. Is if you're an adolescent girl wearing a corset, Um,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: your ribs can develop improperly because you're wearing the course.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: As they say, girls under eighteen shouldn't wear corsets. Uh.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So then along came this guy, um. And we should
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: mention too that when these two the two uh Warner
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: brothers within the United States. Yeah, they were out of Bridgeport, Connecticut.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say Wigner, but maybe a generation or
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: two before probably so. Um they also changed around the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: same time at least Um. I think we have not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: mentioned yet that Uh, one of the you know, the
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the course it has to and we'll get into all
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the parts of the corset, but one of the things
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that keeps it rigid and stiff and the old days
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: was baleen whale um. And it was actually it was
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a teeth, right even though called a whalebone. And they
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: would use this to, you know, to make the corsets
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: stiff in in place, keep everything where it should be.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: But around that time, in the late eighteen hundreds, is
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: they were overhunted, became really expensive, so they said, all right,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: forget the whale teeth, let's put in steel in which
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that was quite comfortable, right. Well, yeah, but
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and I mean women were wearing these like every day. Yeah.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: But I mean one of the as we'll see when
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: we talk about manufacturing, course it's the UM. One of
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the points is to make it as comfortable as possible,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: this very uncomfortable contraption. Yea, but yeah, they started to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: use steel, and even today you'll find steel in corsets
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: that are meant to for like waste training or something
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: like that. Uh. And then, like I teased a moment ago,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: along came this guy named Charles Dana Gibson. He's a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: he was a graphic artist in the Victorian times, and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: he became very famous, and a lot of artists that
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: came after him emulated his style. But he became very
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: famous in the eighteen nineties for creating what was known
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: as the Gibson Girl. So what he did was he
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: he drew all these pictures of this, uh, these ladies
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: who were I mean some say it was like the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: first ideal of of UM American attractiveness for for women,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and it was they wore these swan bill corsets, which
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: made I mean these were even more extreme. They would
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: make you kind of stick the bust out and stick
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: your your rear end back. And if you just look
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: up Gibson girl. I mean, you've seen these drawings before.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It's like America's first cheesecake drawings. I don't know what
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: a cheesecake drawing is. It's like a Gibson girl, okay?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Or a Vargus girl is another a little more modern one. Well,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: supposedly his American boy. You see them cheesecake girls, apparently
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: as his wife and her sisters were his inspiration. And
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: um m is it the sister it's weird. Yeah, they
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: said they were all pretty okay, and he was celebrating.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: He said that this was not a woman, but it
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: was a thousand women, is his quote. Got um. And
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: supposedly the Gibson cocktail is named after him, but I'm
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: not sure if that's true. Oh that's great, good for him.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: M gut him. Pickle onions? Yeah, put in Martini, call
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: it after me. So what happened? He was actually um
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: working from a corset that was invented by a doctor
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: ines ghosh, so terrible Um who created this course at
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the straight front, also called the swan Bill corset and
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the whole problem with it was, and Charles Dana Gibson
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: is criticized for popularizing this because it's so bad for you, Like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: there's no question that the swan bill corset is really
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: bad for your posture because the thing that it forces
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: your spine into is just totally unnatural. And apparently that
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: trend only last for about a decade during the Awardian
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: period of first century of the just ten years, and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: then pretty much right after that, not right after pretty
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: close of course, it's suddenly just went away because World
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: War One had such a sweeping change on the world.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: It just it just it was. It created social upheaval.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that um came out of
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: this was women said, you know what we're done. Of
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: course it's I'm a flapper now I need to do
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the Charleston, can't do the Charleston and of courset um
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and the whole fashion was just different looking, you know
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: it was, and the idealized body was different too. So
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: prior to that and throughout basically history, the Venus body type,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: which is you know them, the fertile women curves type,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: was replaced by the Diana type, which is the more
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: athletic type that's now has been in fashion basically ever
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: since World War One. That basically kill the corset. But
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the modern bra and slip and all of that stuff
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: came out of that the death of the corset, because
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: they were like, we still need something, we still want
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to course it anymore. Okay. I think one of the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: reasons all this made me uncomfortable is just all the
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: categorizations over the years, like this is the ideal women
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and she's called a Diana, and this is what they
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: should look like. Yeah, that's mean that to me is
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: like a whole other podcast, you know. I mean, like
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: because plenty of women buy into that, and there they
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: don't feel bad about themselves for buying into it. They say, oh, yeah,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: this is what I find attractive to uh So. Anyway,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: during this time in the Roaring twenties, there were the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: corsetiers that were just like, oh no, well, how about
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: this kind that you can still wear and it's not
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: like the other course that you can actually dance on them,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's sunk and it. It basically stayed
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that way for the rest of the twentieth century. There
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was a brief resurgence. Christian Dior brought it back in
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the forties, um, and it was kind of akin to that, uh,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: that Swan Bill corset. Yeah. Uh. And then it went
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: out pretty quickly. And then in two Vivian Westwood had
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: a show called Buffalo Girls, her collection for two eighty three,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and it brought corsets out. Vivian west Wood, she's a
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: famous designer, kind of punk fashion, um, and she brought
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: courses out from underneath the clothing and made it like
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: basically into a shirt. It was Outerwhere now was that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: when Madonna got on the train? That was about six
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: years later, And that was Jean Paul Gautier that designed
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: that very famous corset with the conical bra that would
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: take your eye clean out. Yeah. What was the what's
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the video? I don't remember. I can sing the song
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: in my head, sing it. No, you know the one Vogue?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It was okay, that was a Vogue video, right, I think? So, okay,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Well we'll find out if it's not. Um, But that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: was Jean Paul Gautier. And uh. From that point on
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the course that has basically stuck a down, sometimes a
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: little a little more predominantly, sometimes a little more in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the background, but it's basically been a fashion accessory that
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you could conceivably wear out in public in the West
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: ever since. Yeah, I mean it sticks around these days,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: like you see costumes and stuff like that. But um,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and then occasionally, I guess if you're in a swinging nightclub,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you might see a lady in a corset or maybe
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a man. Yeah, we'll talk about that after this. How
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: about that? So chuck your teased men wearing corsets? Literally, Uh,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I never tease a man for wearing anything except those
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: dolphin running shorts. Those are great to get back in
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: your time machine. I saw The Boy in the Bubble
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: for the first time. Have you ever seen that movie
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: here at Trivolta. Yeah, I never saw it, and I
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: watched the riff Trecks version of it. Well that's the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: only way to pervde it a lot better. Yeah, where
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: did that come from? Oh? I think he's wearing dolphins
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: shorts on one of the scenes, and I was like,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: dolphins shorts. So, um, yeah, what we're talking about men
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: wearing him? Yeah, So apparently this article makes it seem
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: like it was fairly normal. But from what I saw
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century and there, from what I saw
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century was that if you were wearing
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a corset, and you were a man, you were probably
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: suspected as being gay. And so here's where this kind
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of patriarchal view. Of course, it's does definitely hold fast. Um,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: if you were if you were like a straight establishment
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: type male, Um, you probably did not cotton two men
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: wearing corsets and didn't want to associate with any guy
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: wearing corses because you didn't trust him he was probably gay.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: But if you were in favor of your wife wearing
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a corset, she'd better be wearing a corset or else
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't be viewed as a proper woman in normal,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: polite society. So it's it's not fair to say like
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: that myth about the corset being a part of the
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: patriarchy is not true. It is true in some ways,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: but not It's not like women were forced to wear
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: corsets throughout history. They donned it in particular on purpose.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why women wore corsets was
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: because it also served as a basically the thing that
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: held up all of their really heavy clothes. Yeah, like
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: you couldn't you couldn't just slip into one of those
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: dresses in Victorian times. No, Um, it had a certain
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: shape that required a certain uh form to put it on,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and you know that course it would help your body
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: like morph into that form basically, you know, it was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: a low there was a load bearing structure that you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: wore under her clothes, a load bearing beam. So I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: don't think we've really described the how these things were
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: kind of came you know, how they came together. There's
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: some people out there are like, what is a corset? Well, geez,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: do we not even say that? And not in so
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: many words? All right, Well, it's a garment and it's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: usually pretty short, uh, and it's like a it's like
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: a belt, like a a not a wide belt, but
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a towel, a tall belt. It's like a vest that
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't go over your shoulders. Yeah, but some of them
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: could go over your shoulders. Well that was the health coursets.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I think that did that, all right. Um, they lace
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: up in the back. We mentioned the whale own, which
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was actually the teeth of the baleen as these reads,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: and they were put in what we're called boning channels,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: which were just a little sheaths basically where they would
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: slip these things down in and um, it's like you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: if you've ever had to wear a back brace or something,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: it's very much like that. And like Andy Warhol had
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: to wear one of these after he got shot by
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Valerie Salon. Yeah, for the rest of his life, who
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: went on to write the Scum Manifesto. You ever read that? Yeah?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I thought she wrote it before she shot him, Now
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: did she? We should do one on that whole scene, Yeah,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: we should. All right, we'll get that, uh. And then
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: they were made out of this um cotton fabric, fabric
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: called kutial c o U t I l um and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: it's still used today. In course it's because it um
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't stretch, has very high thread count, keeps all those
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: boning channels and rib or I guess bones in place.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: And you you have to understand, like this whole thing,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: this whole mechanism that is the corset, is basically defying
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: physics at any given point in time. So you have
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to have some really strong stuff involved in the manufacture
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of it. So what else you got? You got on
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: on the front part where it meets you have a
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: busk Yeah, and um that's actually needs to be pretty
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: strong as well, right, So usually that's um wood or
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: metal maybe bone originally, and it was two flat pieces
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: that um that basically went up and down alongside a scene.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And most people are I don't want to say most people.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I for a very long time thought that you put
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the corset on and then laced it up, and that
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you put it on and then laced up the back, right,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you put it around your stuff like that. It's actually
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: not the case. You, um, you were doing it all wrong.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I had it all wrong. When you put on the corset, um,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you've already got it laced and you're putting the front together.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You're putting it around yourself and then fastening the front
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: at the buss. Yeah, but then you tighten the lacens
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: like you don't lace it tight and try to put
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: it on exactly. You just have it kind of pre
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: lace like your shoes. And the lacing kind of confused
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: me to Actually we'll get into that. Well. First of all,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: we need to finish the front. There was a flattened
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: part on the stomach. A lot of times it was
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: decorative called the stomacher. Yeah. It was very lovely designs
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and embroidery and stuff, and that had the added benefit
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: if you were trying to adjust your shape of keeping
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: your stomach flat. That's right, just person all it. So, uh,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: what else? Are there any other components to the corset
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: that we haven't mentioned? I don't think so. Um, just
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the the the lacing. Okay, so we'll talk lacing now
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: then you're ready. Yeah. So, traditionally in the in the
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Western Europe, the the method of lacing was we're basically
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: like you would lace the shoe. Okay, it's called bidirectional lacing,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: where you just alternate from one hole of the other diagonally. Right. Um,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that's typically what you think of when you see of course,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: it's probably what you're seeing is bidirectional lacing. If you
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: look at Italian paintings from the medieval era, you're probably
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: gonna see what's called ladder lacing. It's all right angles, right,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: so you go from one hole down and then over
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and then maybe up and then down again, then over,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: then down and then over, and it forms a ladder.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: The name is pretty appropriate for that one. And I wonder,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: was this just to make it look different? I would
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: guess that had something to do with it, But I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: would also imagine that it had to do with you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: if somebody was like this actually, this doesn't loosen during
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the day very much. Because I also saw with the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: bi directional what you would create in the not at
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the bottom at the top, it's sort of in the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: middle of where it laces these bunny ears. And that
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: was for women because a lot of times in the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: movies you've seen like the you know, the like down
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and be like the the lady holding the bed post
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and then her valet or I guess where the females
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: called valets was valley girl. The lady who helps them
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: dress would be like, you know, cinching this thing down
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: so tight, and they'd be like, breathe in, you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: sucking your breath. But these bunny ears allowed women to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that didn't have a personal dresser to tighten it themselves. Yeah,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and apparently that was fairly normal. Um for women wearing courses.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: They usually put them on themselves more often than not.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And those those bunny ears were just two loops of
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: lacing at about the thinnest part, the narrowest part where
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: you had some slack, and then when you put your
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: corset on, you wrap it around you. You um fasten
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the busk the little the buttons on the bus the
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: front and then you just pull back tighten it done right.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And this is again ideally after you have visited your
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: uh course a tear because apparently, like buying a braw,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: guys don't know this stuff. It's apparently tough to get
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: one that like fits just right, and so you need
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to get like professionally fitted and um, like the off
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: the shelf thing doesn't work for a lot of ladies, right,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And that was the case for of course it's for
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a very long time. You had to go to a
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: corsetier to to be fitted for one, um and it
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: was expensive from what I understand right, Um, today there
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I guess because of mass manufacturing, UM, it's a lot
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: easier to make coursets that are fairly close to what
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: a large number of people would use. But the fit
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: is still extraordinarily important. And apparently from what I well,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I should say, from what orchard course, it says, um,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: women tend to miss uh or to underestimate the length
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: that they need, so that leads to a lot of
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: discomfort there of course it's too short for their body.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I don't mean to buzz market or anything,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: but just based on my research orchery, of course, it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: if you're getting into corsetting, there might be a pretty
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: decent place to start. Wow, you might get a little
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: treat in the mail. Uh, let's take another break and
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about Cathy Young and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: some of the myths about corsetting. So I think we
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: didn't mention after corsetting went out of fashion. Uh, girdles
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: came along, like everything has kind of been replaced by
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: something else that does something similar, you know, and like
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: men these days have those. Uh. It was like, I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: guess spanks for men almost like these tummy tummy shirts
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the dudes can wear Marino that suck everything in and uh,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and it's all fools gold because what lies beneath is
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: still there, right, I guess if you're trying to impress
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: people who will never see you without your shirt on,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: go nuts. Um. But Cathy Young, we mentioned a few
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: times she is a Guinness record holder and she started
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: waste training at the age of forty eight. Yeah, it
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: seems a little late to get into it. Yeah, I
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: thought so too, But she got into a big time.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: And you were saying earlier. I think at the beginning
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: of the episode that you this is not something that
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: happens overnight. If you're doing waste training, it can usually
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: take it seems to me, about a decade before you
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: get the results you're looking for, which is a waste
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that the average five year old could put two fingers around. Well.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: She said that her goal was never to earn an
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: award and Aguinness called her uh And she holds that
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: record now at fifteen inches thirty eight point one centimeters,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So that's for living on a living person. There's actually
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: a woman who holds the record for the narrowest waist ever,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: narrowest corpse thirteen inches. Who was she? Her name, my
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: friend was as follows Ethel Granger. Thirty three centimeters thirteen
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: inches in nineteen thirty nine was what her waist was
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: measured at. And she obviously trained her waist yeah over
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: again about the course of a decade. So did you
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: go to Cathy Young's website? Did you see the YouTube's? No?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I think that's where I got a little freaked out
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: because on her website she has like a she has
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: an f a Q section and people were writing in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people were just like, you know,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I think you look great, and you know, give me
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: some tips here and there, and that was all well
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and good, but then there was one where this husband
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm waist training my wife and just hearing
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: that made it sound like a dog bowl. Yeah, it
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: made it seem like something that he was making her
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: do right, which may not been the case. It may
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: have been the wording, but it just freaked me out.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And he says, right now, I've got her up to
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: eighteen hours a day, but I'm really looking looking forward
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to seven, and can you give me some tips on
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: how we can accomplish this because she does seven except
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: for when she showers. Cathy Young does okay, always in
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: a courset right, and you know, she gave tips and everything,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and like I said, it, just the way this guy
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was talking, it just seemed a little creepy. Yeah, no,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that is creepy. Sounds like a huge jerk who needs
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to be set straight. Probably get his butt kicked by
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a larger dude. Right, But it also chuck. You may
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: also be witnessing, um a B DSM couple coming up
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: for tips or whatever. That's just the reality. And if
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the if they're both equally into it, and the into
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: that like dynamic, neither one is psychologically suffering or physically
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: suffering from it, then hey, but it could also probably
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: even more likely be just the guy's a jerk. That
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: was my instinct, but you never know. And the other thing,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: if you go to YouTube, there's parts Cathy Young, parts
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: one through six, and they are five minute videos of
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: her in different lingeries standing in front of a white
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: backdrop while her picture was being taken and her husband.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: She's silent the whole time and just kind of turning
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: around and stuff, and her husband is just sort of
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: very calmly talking about it and describing her waist and
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: what she did and the techniques used. And he's an
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: orthopedic surgeon, so there's a chilliness to it, and it's
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: just creepy man on the subject. Like go watch one
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of those videos and yeah, that's exactly how it sounds.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And you just hear the photograph going to keep and
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that's the only other thing you hear. It's got like
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a houseplant. It was just all just weird. But then again,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: she feels great about herself and that's what she wanted
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to do. I'm not saying he forced her, because there
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: were rumors because she was he was an orthopedic surgeon
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that she he had removed some of her ribs, which
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: is one of the big myths of supposed myths um
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: of back in the day. Uh. And I believe it
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: was a myth because they said back then like surgery
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: was very dangerous. You would have to be one of
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the um one of the least risk averse people on
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the planet to undergo elective surgery to removed in the
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: nineteenth century, you know. So that's by all accounts, very
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: much a myth. Yes, same with Marilyn Manson, I think too.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, I remember hearing that one. Uh. But she
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: said that you know, no, my husband didn't remove any
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: of my ribs and it's all natural, and um, you know,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: she's into it, she's very proud of it. So I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to It's the same thing with with corseting
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: in general. I think like just to assume that men
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: made women do that really takes a tremendous amount of
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: agency away from women, you know, like they're just completely
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: vapid shells that are bost around by their husbands regardless,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: you know. Sure, so you want busts a couple more myths.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: That's what we do. We're known as myth busters. So
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I saw. It's hilarious. In
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: this article, um, it says that there's the myth of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the Victorian waif who fainted at the drop of a
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: hat because of a lack of oxygen from wearing a corset.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: And at the bottom of this paragraph the author says, no, no, no,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that. It was malnutrition and not being able
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to breathe very well because of the Yeah. Uh that
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: are there any other myths? Yep, that's it. Those are
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: all the myth Now, there's plenty of other ones. There's
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: actually a pretty cool article on Collectors Weekly written by
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Lisa Hicks about um corset myths. Uh. And again you
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: should probably if you're getting into this kind of thing,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: go check out UM well a bunch of sites, but
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: also check out Orchard Course. It's again I have no
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: financial stake in them whatsoever, but check it out. Uh.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: And it's as I said, go to orchard Orchard of
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: course its dot com slash josh um. Since I said
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Orchard course, it's it's time for a listener mail. I'm
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: gonna call this. Thank god that episode is over. Hey, guys,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: it just finished episode on pain scales, and I find
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: it fascinating when humans try to put an objective score
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: on something very subjective. I'm not sure if he came
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: across this info and your research, but I thought you'd
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: be interested to know that we use pain scales and
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: veterinary medicine as well. It's even more challenging because obviously
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: our dogs and cats can't tell us verbally and certainly
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: can't draw happier sad faces. And that's the saddest thing
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of all. Um our assessment is based completely on behavioral
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: behavioral cues and body language. For instance, I'm sure everyone
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: but know a happy, pain free puppy. Uh you saw
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: one sitting square looking you in the eye, ears perked up,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: wagging his tail. Because dogs are very stoic, higher pain
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: tolerance than even chuck it can all, it can be
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: very hard to tell when they are feeling pain. Um My,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: both my dogs got sick recently, so I got to
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: see this in action, like they didn't act sick for
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: a long time, and then I was like, you guys
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: are sick. That's why they recommend, like if your dog vomiting,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: take them to the vet, because it's really tough to
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: tell if your dog's bad off norm just by looking
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: at their behavior totally um or if they like don't
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: eat all of a sudden, because that's you know, most dogs,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: or at least all the dogs out had eat like,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: you know, voraciously, or if their head comes off that too.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: As recently the nineteen eighties, it was why we believed
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the animals didn't feel pain at all, And isn't that crazy.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: In fact, you would still encounter veterinarians who don't believe
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: in giving pain meds for surgery and other injuries and animals.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what kind of talks about that in
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: the animal rights episodes? Oh yeah, that's nuts. It is.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: This line of thinking is obviously known to be wrong now,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: and we have come a very long way in the
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: last twenty or thirty years giving better pain control to
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: animals in our care. Google dog pain scale you'll find
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: a large variety of different pain charts for animals. Keep
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: up the great work. We are eagerly, eagerly awaiting a
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: live show in St. Louis and now it's from Michael Richards.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Michael Richards. We appreciate you writing it.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: We come into St. Louis. Maybe all right, it's on
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the table. Yeah, I think we've got some We're gonna
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: do some shows this year, folks, So look out in
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the future. Look out. Maybe we'll see you there. If
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, you can
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: tweet to us on s YSK podcast and at josh
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  Speaker 1: um Clark. You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook
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  Speaker 1: at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and uh Facebook dot com
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  Speaker 1: email the Stuff podcast to how Stuff Works dot com
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  Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works
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  Speaker 1: dot com? Mhm