Latest / Kvetch & Release / Episode 2

Transcript

Episode 2 · Kvetch & Release

• 0:23
  This is News Talk Tonight with Jim Richards on the iHeartRadio Talk Network. All
• 0:29
  Right, top rock and roll bagpipe songs that might be number one? And
• 0:34
  the list is only one. No, I think Glass Tiger did some bagpipes.
• 0:40
  Maybe Rod Stewart did some bagpipes. Seven ten? Who did pop music
• 0:45
  bagpipes? I mean, we could google it, but Tony is busy googling
• 0:49
  something else right now. I have to folks be economical with yelling at people
• 0:55
  about what to google. Hey wait a second, Noah, what are you
• 0:58
  doing. Let's get into the rundown, which is where we tackle some of
• 1:03
  the big news stories of the day. Jill Wilson is with us, very
• 1:07
  grateful for her time partner at the g W Group. Jill, thank you
• 1:11
  very much for your time. Hello, great to be here. And John
• 1:15
  Lidkey is with us from her sister station in Windsor, podcaster and radio host
• 1:21
  as well. John, thank you very much for your time. Always a
• 1:25
  pleasure. Thank you. I was saying earlier that if you do not like
• 1:29
  Pierre Pauliev, you have to admire his political acumen. I mean, the
• 1:34
  guy is a pit bull. He has a real ability to communicate and this
• 1:42
  idea that there would be a carbon tax election. Of course, it is
• 1:47
  not going to happen. He is challenging the Liberal government that if they do
• 1:53
  not get rid of the increase on the carbon tax, and I'm guessing get
• 1:56
  rid of the carbon tax by the end of this month so it doesn't go
• 1:59
  up fifty percent on April the first, that they are going to call for
• 2:04
  a no confidence vote, which is just a stunt, folks, but it
• 2:09
  communicates the point really really well that he's going to bat for the little guy
• 2:16
  before this goes up. So great politicking, Jill, But nobody expects this
• 2:22
  to happen. I think, you know, Pierre Pierre doing this is in
• 2:28
  response to a variety of different things, but I think the main thing,
• 2:32
  it's not just the little guy. I think it's the majority of Canadians who
• 2:37
  are fed up with the government in Ottawa. Life is is not afford affordable
• 2:42
  anymore, and the carbon tax is just something else that Canadians need to be
• 2:46
  concerned about on April first, and so I hope I'm excited about the vote
• 2:53
  on Thursday, and should it not pass, I hope Pierre does more of
• 2:58
  this. I think it's it's important and it's in response to what he's hearing
• 3:01
  from Canadians and his provincial premiers. Trudeau responding because the Parliament with Budget Officers
• 3:12
  report lays out clearly that eight out of ten Canadian families across the country where
• 3:17
  the price on pollution applies yet more money back every year. So that his
• 3:24
  message John one that they have not been able to communicate, despite the fact
• 3:30
  they've got this new communications team. They've rebranded it something that nobody remembers from
• 3:36
  two weeks ago, and yeah, the horse has left the barn on that
• 3:40
  thing. I mean, they got to try to fight on some different fronts,
• 3:43
  even though I don't know if you can because I think the affordability issue
• 3:46
  and people thinking that the garment tax is going to have a great trajectory in
• 3:51
  solving that is something that may or may not be true, depending on what
• 3:54
  economists you talk to. But I think that ship has sailed. They can't
• 4:00
  run on affordability, but they can try to continue to run on the carbon
• 4:04
  tax, which is almost the only thing that they have left at this point.
• 4:08
  You can't really do anything about Ukraine because foreign policy isn't going to get
• 4:12
  you any votes domestically. When it comes to an election, so they're left
• 4:15
  sort of rudderless here and Polliev is taking advantage of this situation, and you
• 4:19
  know, quite frankly, good for him for putting the government on notice because
• 4:23
  the NDP likes to do it a lot on social media, but you know,
• 4:27
  they're propping up this government continually, and it always becomes just so hypocritical
• 4:31
  to see that happening. And it's a great wedge that positions himself against the
• 4:36
  Liberals and the NDP and with people so angry right now at the economy,
• 4:43
  at the situation they're living in, and at Trudeau as the figurehead of you
• 4:46
  know, the situation that we're dealing with, this is again it's just a
• 4:49
  great wedge. Do you support Trudeau or do you oppose Trudeau? And we're
• 4:55
  willing to scoop up the votes of those who oppose Trudeau, is what the
• 4:59
  Conservative are positioning themselves. Far. I was listening to Vashi earlier, and
• 5:01
  I know I didn't send this to you, and I don't even know if
• 5:04
  you want it. You can pass on it if you like, but you
• 5:08
  mentioned Ukraine and the Gaza situation, and earlier this week of vote on recognizing
• 5:14
  Palestine, which was ridiculous, and I think they knew it was ridiculous,
• 5:16
  But I don't even know why the Liberals just didn't stick to their Hey,
• 5:19
  we're not going to come up with foreign police leon the fly just because the
• 5:24
  opposition has introduced emotion. They should have just let it die. But I
• 5:29
  guess they probably were concerned about a huge voting block of the Muslim community and
• 5:34
  maybe more than the one point eight million people in this country who I think
• 5:41
  everybody has sympathies for people in Gaza, but I don't know where that puts
• 5:46
  them. Do you have any thoughts on trying to walk that fine political line,
• 5:50
  Jill and appease both the Muslim community and the Jewish community and probably not
• 5:57
  making either of them happy. I think it was a huge misstep on on
• 6:01
  the liberals part. I think liberal and Anthony Anslather said set it right that
• 6:08
  it was the first time where he felt as a member that his party crossed
• 6:13
  the line. And I think a lot of Liberal members will share that and
• 6:18
  and question kind of their future in the party. And and I think that
• 6:21
  that will also translate to voters and Liberal members liberal members, and so I
• 6:30
  think it's going to be. It's another tough spot that Trudeau has put his
• 6:35
  party and caucus in on on policy and on foreign policy. Yeah, bring
• 6:42
  it up, just because there's a whole bunch of audio that I have in
• 6:45
  front of me of liberal MPs kind of being like, you know what,
• 6:47
  we all like Anthony. Obviously, for mister house Father and others, this
• 6:53
  is a highly emotional question. I do not exchange Obviously, Anthony and I
• 6:59
  are our friends, and I understand where he's coming from. It is extremely
• 7:04
  emotional for him. It's extremely emotional. He's a great member of parliament.
• 7:08
  He's a great member of Parliament. Have enormous respect for him and the community
• 7:12
  represents and I think we all benefit of having people like can Tonique among our
• 7:16
  caucus. So I certainly it's a tough one for him. John, Yeah,
• 7:20
  it really is. The the you know, the Liberals tried or be
• 7:25
  everything everywhere all at once, and they've ended up upsetting everyone everywhere all at
• 7:29
  once with this. And I can appreciate MP house Father there. I mean,
• 7:33
  I just I don't understand how you continue to hold these two conflicting views.
• 7:39
  And I imagine in the next couple of days we'll see him come forward
• 7:42
  with a further statement about this, and I'd imagine the party has to do
• 7:46
  a lot to try to keep him happy. There you have the vocal stylings
• 7:51
  of John Lidkey is a broadcaster a podcaster from Windsor. Jill Wilson is with
• 7:58
  us as well. She's a partner at the GW Group. More of the
• 8:03
  rundown, the big news stories of the day in a moment here on the
• 8:07
  iHeart Talk Radio Network. My job is not to be popular. Welcome back
• 8:24
  to News Talk Tonight with Jim Richards on the iHeartRadio Talk Network. Why are
• 8:30
  we down to fifteen? Folks? International Happiness Day? We are down to
• 8:33
  fifteen. I would love to hear from you telling me why you're not happy.
• 8:39
  The easy thing to do for the broadcaster on International Happiness Day would be
• 8:43
  go, hey, why you loving life? But why is Canadian Canada sucking?
• 8:48
  For you? Right now? Is what I'm going for. Why do
• 8:54
  things suck in this country? Fifteen minutes away from some of the most depressing
• 9:01
  radio you've ever heard. That's a promise here on News Talk Tonight. Hope
• 9:07
  you can be a part of it. All right, Let's continue with our
• 9:11
  Rundown, which features the vocal stylings of Jill Wilson. She is a partner
• 9:15
  at GW Group and John Lidkey is a broadcaster with her sister station in Windsor
• 9:22
  and podcast host as well. Do you want to plug your podcast? John?
• 9:26
  Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I've got a brand new one Connec's with
• 9:31
  John lid Key where I am just unloading about all of the things that are
• 9:37
  going on around us and what a target rich environment we are living in,
• 9:41
  a target reach environment. Jill, do you have a podcast you want to
• 9:43
  plug? Not yet? All right, you're on this one. How about
• 9:48
  plugging this one? Okay, good job, Thank you very much, Let's
• 9:50
  continue. I've always thought this, guys, that the any real election of
• 9:56
  reform should not be done by the governing party at that time. I think
• 10:03
  gerymandering writings or down in the United States is absolutely undemocratic, and I don't
• 10:11
  think that the rules for democracy should be set by any governing party, whether
• 10:18
  it's the Liberals, Conservatives, the NDP, et cetera, et cetera,
• 10:20
  et cetera. But Liberals have introduced some election reforms that would possibly go into
• 10:28
  effect for the next election, and they include adding two additional days of advance
• 10:33
  polling. That would mean seven days to cast a ballot. I don't see
• 10:37
  why that would be bad. But some of this stuff, you could say
• 10:41
  Skew is young, and you could say liberal or NDP votes skew young,
• 10:46
  voting by mail, making a twenty fifteen pilot program permanent, which is voting
• 10:54
  on campus. There are some other things as well. There's not specif things
• 11:00
  that I think are bad in here, but Jill one might argue that it
• 11:05
  might lean left, but one might argue that when the Conservatives do it that
• 11:09
  it leans right. I don't again. I would think that every party should
• 11:13
  be able to nominate a whole bunch of people and then they all have to
• 11:18
  agree on like a pool of people, like each nominate ten and say you
• 11:24
  got thirty people and you have to agree on I don't know seven or eight
• 11:28
  or nine or whoever is going to come up with these rules. But doing
• 11:31
  it with the governing party just does not seem democratic. What are your thoughts?
• 11:37
  Yeah, I think the these changes and they say sweeping changes, reforms,
• 11:41
  but they're not overly sweeping. Yeah, if you ask me, they're
• 11:48
  fairly straightforward. They definitely skew young. You know, university college voters mail
• 11:54
  in ballot that that always skews young, and typically will skew on the left
• 11:58
  as well in terms of where those votes will go. But the Liberal government
• 12:03
  promised electoral reform before taking office in twenty fifteen. So my question is,
• 12:09
  are these the reforms that took you know, ten years, just under ten
• 12:15
  years to come up with. Seems a little lackluster to me in terms of
• 12:18
  electoral reform, but it's definitely their way of checking the box when it comes
• 12:24
  to campaign promises as they look forward the next federal election. Trump's claim,
• 12:28
  I guess vote voting by mail was that you couldn't accurately discern who the person
• 12:35
  was. I mean, thus all of it was fraudulent. But it's funny
• 12:39
  that going to a mail box or putting a stamp on something. I guess
• 12:43
  you don't have to do that, but that vote, that's us seeming like
• 12:46
  a young thing to do. John, But your thoughts on these alleged reforms,
• 12:52
  you know, there's nothing inherently wrong with any of this here, looking
• 12:56
  at it all on face value. Most of it we've already been having for
• 13:00
  a number of years without problems. The issue is is that we've already had
• 13:05
  institutional decline right now and mistrust among our electorate, and this is only going
• 13:09
  to increase it when people start to hear a liberal voting law that's going to
• 13:15
  be passed and the Conservatives are going to own this and they're bringing in traditional
• 13:18
  non voters who are going to eat this up. And that's a big risk
• 13:24
  for the government to be doing at this moment. And again, there's nothing
• 13:26
  wrong here, but again this is a government a prime minister that wanted to
• 13:31
  have ranked ballots. I get an interview with him back in twenty fifteen and
• 13:33
  he made that very clear to me, but that's not how things rolled out.
• 13:37
  And he has owned not doing electoral reform, and I think it's way
• 13:43
  too late to be coming out with something like this, and the cynicism that
• 13:46
  we're seeing in the country is going to take old and this is a problem.
• 13:50
  Yeah, this isn't the electoral form that people wanted, you're right,
• 13:54
  but it's the one that they're going to get. And then when the Conservatives
• 13:58
  get in, they're going to be able to do the same things. Perhaps
• 14:01
  that might skew their way, but I don't know. None of this stuff
• 14:07
  is going to help them right now to think that this is a difference maker.
• 14:11
  They are out to lunch. My job is not to be popular.
• 14:15
  Oh, you're doing a great job. As we have said before, this
• 14:18
  professor that has apparently been dropped by Waterloo, I should say a lecturer has
• 14:24
  been dropped by Waterloo, not by Gwelph, in the wake of a paper
• 14:30
  that apparently he had written in years gone by. Students have found it and
• 14:33
  thought that way, I don't want to be taught by somebody who thinks that
• 14:37
  the paper the title is difficult. He's hunting at work and he's talking about
• 14:41
  dating at work. He says, apparently in the paper boys rejecting girls is
• 14:48
  out of control and turning them gay. Okay, that aside, and it's
• 14:54
  hard to say that aside that this guy has been dropped by this one university
• 15:03
  because he wrote something like that but never acted on it, apparently, and
• 15:07
  students who had him in the past have said he was a great teacher and
• 15:11
  they're shocked by this. But that aside, because you could argue whether or
• 15:15
  not the guy because he wrote something in years gone by, should be fired
• 15:18
  if he's never acted on any of it, or not invited back. But
• 15:22
  the question here, I guess is is there anything wrong with professor's male or
• 15:28
  female dating students? And I would say yes, what if they weren't your
• 15:33
  student? Still a yes, because I'm guessing that you might have sway in
• 15:39
  the teacher's office to say, Hey, Larry, I see you got my
• 15:43
  girlfriend in your class. It does seem like an odd suggestion that teachers should
• 15:48
  be able to date students. John, Yeah, this is just not one
• 15:56
  that I would want to have to defend by any means whatsoever. There are
• 16:00
  obviously big issues here that come to mind in terms of having someone who's in
• 16:03
  an authoritative position and someone who is a subordinate. And it's not a workplace
• 16:10
  situation. It's a student that we're talking about here. Yeah. No,
• 16:14
  it's a bad situation all around. The topic discussed earlier today and people were
• 16:21
  saying, well, you know what, you're an adult. I don't know.
• 16:22
  The power imbalance is very difficult to pass. I'm not sure how you
• 16:29
  could allow that. Jill, Yeah, it's definitely inappropriate. I have not
• 16:33
  read the paper. I understand it since been taken down, but it's one
• 16:37
  of those things. Reading the story you have almost a physical reaction to it's
• 16:41
  cringe worthy and I think that it's inappropriate. And gwelth is in a really
• 16:48
  tough position, as John mentioned, and you know, try to defend this
• 16:51
  as he's still a lecture at GWELP, although having been released from Waterloo,
• 16:55
  gwelf is going to be in a position, a very difficult position to determine
• 17:00
  what to do next. I gotta say, like part of me was like,
• 17:04
  Okay, he wrote this paper, he's never acted on it, and
• 17:07
  then I'm reading what is quoted from it in the article and I'm like,
• 17:12
  I can't. I can't. I can't back that any longer. I mean,
• 17:15
  I would be like, Okay, he's trying to date at school,
• 17:18
  you can't do that, Or if he's teaching any of this stuff, he
• 17:22
  can't do that. But if he's written something that he hasn't acted on,
• 17:26
  then I'm not sure what you can do. But then again, you don't
• 17:27
  want to run into a situation somewhere down the road where everybody's like I told,
• 17:32
  yeah, but let's move on. Canada is declining when it comes to
• 17:38
  the happiness ranking. I'm wondering if any of you feel that that is true,
• 17:45
  Like the guy who we played a clip of him earlier, and he
• 17:48
  says that some of the things, like the affordability thing, he says,
• 17:51
  it's not that it's that in Canada and the United States, young people who
• 17:56
  are bringing your number down are I guess too much into the negative news cycle
• 18:02
  and that is contributing to our not being the happiest that we can be.
• 18:07
  John, Yeah, I mean, listen, social media is not great.
• 18:10
  We see an echo chamber of everything that's wrong in the world. But it's
• 18:14
  not to suggest that there aren't things that are wrong in the world. We're
• 18:18
  looking at war in Europe, We're looking at war in the Middle East.
• 18:22
  We're looking at an affordability crisis here domestically, we're looking at a situation where
• 18:26
  the vast majority of young people are not able to afford a home, let
• 18:30
  alone even imagine purchasing a home at any point in their lifetime. So,
• 18:37
  you know, the cards that are being dealt right now are pretty rough,
• 18:41
  and I don't think it's surprising to see that the happiness is dropping with it.
• 18:45
  All right, Jill, I'm I am afraid we're going to have to
• 18:48
  end it there. Thank you very much for both of you. For joining
• 18:49
  us tonight on the Rundown. Jill Wilson is a partner at GW Group.
• 18:53
  John Lidkey has a podcast called Covetch and he is also on our sister station
• 19:00
  in Windsor. I Jim Really True, Sadie is news Talk Tonight is the
• 19:03
  iHeart Talk Radio Network. Well, hey, good morning and welcome back.
• 19:25
  It's Dan McDonald. Thank you so much for tuning in. Happy Monday everyone.
• 19:29
  You're listening to the Dan McDonald Show on Am eight hundred c KLW want
• 19:32
  to welcome in our roundtable this morning. We have Deputy Mayor of the town
• 19:36
  to come see Joe, but Caddie, Joe, great to have you back
• 19:37
  on. Yes, thank you for having me. Did you just survive any
• 19:41
  big plans for Saint Patrick Sage to survive? Oh? I was designated driver,
• 19:45
  so picking up my daughter at different places that she enjoyed with her friends.
• 19:48
  But no, it was a nice, nice weekend and to enjoy the
• 19:52
  Saint Patrick's event absolutely an important role too. Someone's got to be a designated
• 19:56
  driver, so thank you for being that role. Last, but not least,
• 19:59
  well, we do have one more g who may be coming in a
• 20:00
  bit later. What we'll save to CV put epops by but host of Rose
• 20:03
  City Politics, host right here on AM eight hundred CW, and I believe
• 20:07
  there's a new show cooking, John Lidkey, What are you covetching about?
• 20:11
  Did? Did I use that properly? Deck fetched with John? I'm right,
• 20:15
  yes, I saw that. I saw the what is this? What
• 20:18
  is covetch all about? Well? Uh, Cavet's a Yiddish word to you
• 20:22
  know, complain to gripe to to get it out on the table, which
• 20:26
  is, you know, quite frankly, something that I do fairly often.
• 20:27
  So I figured why not institutionalize and formalize it into a podcast. Uh,
• 20:32
  it's it's really just a place where I'm posting all of my media interviews,
• 20:34
  commentary, radio interviews, and then there'll be some podcast format type stuff as
• 20:40
  well. I just needed a depository port all. Yeah, catch, I
• 20:44
  love we shall all do it. What's your convention about? Now? I
• 20:47
  love that? That's great Newspool question. I think we have some clips to
• 20:51
  Brian Massey, I believe, will we have some clips? We do?
• 20:53
  It's the Newspool question today. The MP for Windsor West is pushing the liberal
• 20:57
  federal government to include a rent fund in the upcoming budget, so Brian Massey
• 21:02
  he's urging well. He urged the government to establish this fund on Friday in
• 21:06
  order to protect renters, especially in the Windsor Essex region. Brian Massey says,
• 21:10
  with over seven thousand in the region on a waiting list for affordable housing,
• 21:14
  it's time for the Liberals to step up. This fund would help not
• 21:17
  for profit organizations across the country by affordable housing when it's on the market and
• 21:22
  make sure it stays affordable for renters. He says. The scary reality is
• 21:26
  that Windsor is starting to see the same housing crisis that exists in Toronto and
• 21:30
  Vancouver. And I always thought that too. You see what's going on in
• 21:33
  Vancouver, in Toronto and it eventually comes to us. Here's a clip of
• 21:36
  Windsor West MP Brian Massey. He says the situation leaves the Windsor Essex community
• 21:41
  vulnerable. There has been an increase of significant cost to renters. So we're
• 21:45
  looking at legislation that would bring about some supports for those families that are low
• 21:51
  income, but also to some more stop measures for increases on rent, similar
• 21:56
  that's been done in the past with rent control, so we're open in terms
• 21:59
  of a couple processes to approach it, but there definitely has to be a
• 22:03
  government response. He says. It's heartbreak. It's a heartbreaking problem that has
• 22:06
  been going on for far too long. In our office. It's a daily
• 22:10
  fight with people trying to get through rental processes and we just don't have the
• 22:14
  affordable housing for people. And this is individuals that they're basically often have children,
• 22:18
  they often have people in school or they're going to school, and with
• 22:22
  seven thousand people and something has to be done, he says. He wants
• 22:26
  flexibility with a focus on families and young people. We also want to have
• 22:30
  some protections on rent control to ensure that there can't be significant increases on people's
• 22:36
  rent, especially again in the family units, when also young people. We
• 22:38
  keep forgetting about young people that don't have the opportunities that we once had,
• 22:44
  and it's really worrisome because their pay hasn't increased significantly, inflation has been up.
• 22:48
  Brian Massey adds that no one should have to worry if they'll be kicked
• 22:51
  out of their home. Windsor's vacancy rate in twenty twenty three hit a record
• 22:55
  low of two percent, meaning those who get evicted from their homes have nowhere
• 22:59
  to go at Liberals plan to release the next federal budget on April sixteenth,
• 23:03
  so that's the NEWSPOPL question. Do you support an NDP call for a National
• 23:07
  Rental Protection Fund to be included in next month's federal budget? Joe, your
• 23:11
  thoughts on this NEWSPAPL question this morning? Yeah, thank you, Dan.
• 23:15
  I think it's worth a discussion. M P Mass has brought up a valid
• 23:18
  concern, and not only for this area. Here, sitting on the Community
• 23:22
  Housing Corporation, I see the need. There are thousands of people on a
• 23:26
  waiting list for affordable homes and this would start that discussion, that conversation that
• 23:30
  we need to do something about it. Talking about the federal budget. Those
• 23:36
  you know WHENNY time you talk about budget, there's needs and wants, and
• 23:38
  to me, this is a need and so it needs to take precedent in
• 23:41
  those discussions. So come budget time, we can't be you know, looking
• 23:45
  at this as another tax because you know, most people will see this as
• 23:49
  another tax that you know, we were already taxed, and in the citizens
• 23:53
  and of this nation are saying, look, enough's enough. And so we'd
• 23:59
  have to put a lot of credits to that process of the budget where some
• 24:03
  of the wants may need to be put aside. So what are our priorities
• 24:07
  We need to bre prioritize what we're doing in that budget time. And right
• 24:11
  now the NDP, as you know, as a minority government, they have
• 24:15
  a leverage and the Liberals are trying to survive. So this is a great
• 24:18
  opportunity that MP Moss is bringing to the forefront, and I think it's worth
• 24:22
  those valid discussions. We need to put this on the table. It's no
• 24:26
  different than what we do as the municipalities. We have you know, jumpstar
• 24:30
  programs and we subsidize low income families that can afford sports, and so this
• 24:37
  is more national. We know we're talking housing here, but it's a similar
• 24:40
  situation. So that discussion that type of rent control. We can't you know,
• 24:45
  like you say, we talk about young people, students that are in
• 24:47
  university that are rooming in a home. They don't have that disposable income to
• 24:52
  say, look now the rent's going to go up another x percentage, So
• 24:56
  we have to put measures in place. And I would support that conversation discussion
• 25:00
  at budget yeah, absolutely, jelling your thoughts on the newspool. You know,
• 25:03
  we saw Premiere Forward change rent control in the province and freeze it for
• 25:08
  everyone unless you moved into a place that was built after the year twenty twenty,
• 25:12
  in which case it can increase at exponential levels with no cap on it.
• 25:15
  That's a problem. It's why we're seeing a lot of the problems that
• 25:18
  we're dealing with right now. The Feds are that they're hands tied. They
• 25:22
  can't go and implement rent control. It's provincial jurisdiction. But there's a lot
• 25:25
  that they can do. They could do rent support, which I don't necessarily
• 25:27
  support because if a landlord sees that the renter is going to be getting an
• 25:32
  extra five hundred dollars a month to throw a number out, they're just going
• 25:33
  to go and raise the rent by five hundred dollars a month. Is that
• 25:37
  awful? That that has a worry you have to worry about. We can't
• 25:40
  make greed, well, we could make great illegal. I don't know how
• 25:42
  you would enforce that though. Quite frankly, I like this though, because
• 25:45
  what it does allow to do is have these not for profits go and purchase
• 25:49
  housing when it does show up on the market, add it to their stock
• 25:52
  and supply, and then make sure that the affordability is at the market rate
• 25:59
  or very low subsidized, depending on what they're trying to do. This is
• 26:03
  an interesting way to try to sort of set aside the inflation argument that comes
• 26:07
  into play by just giving direct cash out to individuals. But of course,
• 26:11
  you know there's lots more that we can do as well. We know that
• 26:12
  we've got what eight thousand people on the affordable housing wait list. We've got
• 26:15
  five thousand people that are homeless throughout the region. We can't put a peg
• 26:19
  directly on that because not everyone identifies. But we need more shelter spaces,
• 26:23
  we need more affordable housing provincially. I'd like to see rent control come in
• 26:27
  again to make the disparity that keeps growing between the haves and the have not,
• 26:33
  the renters and the house owners. I mean, I know so many
• 26:36
  people who are saying, I can't get approved for a mortgage at twenty five
• 26:40
  hundred a month, but I'm paying twenty five hundred dollars a month for rent.
• 26:44
  What's going on here? The issue is, I guess you know,
• 26:45
  they decide that the job that you have isn't as sustainable as they'd like it
• 26:49
  to be to give you the mortgage. All this to say is we're having
• 26:52
  market failures. We're having mortgage failure, banking failures because they can't give mortgages
• 26:57
  to people. We're having climate failures because people aren't able to make enough money.
• 27:02
  We're having housing failures because we're seeing these long waitless whether it be affordable
• 27:06
  housing or people that are homeless. So we need to get a handle on
• 27:07
  this. So, you know, kudos to Brian Massy for putting this forward.
• 27:12
  I'd like to see more. Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned you
• 27:15
  said greed is not illegal, and it's so funny. Somebody said this on
• 27:18
  the same thing on the roundtable last week as well. I believe it was
• 27:22
  in regards to a post that counselor Fabio Gustante made about the rental property where
• 27:26
  there was a bunch of mattresses kind of stacked in one room and it was
• 27:29
  all over the house and I forget what it was. We were renting out
• 27:30
  like eighteen roomhouse and it was just mattresses on the floor, And yeah,
• 27:34
  it is, it's just it's kind of a mess across the board right now
• 27:37
  when it comes to housing and something has to be done. Like you said,
• 27:41
  Joe wants, needs, wishes. We just have to prioritize at this
• 27:45
  point and repriorities. It's a need right now. And that's a tricky thing
• 27:48
  too. People will see it as attacks it is, you know what I
• 27:52
  mean, But it is a need too. So I don't know how to
• 27:52
  get out of the hole. Yeah, no, we were putting a lot
• 27:56
  of effort even in the county looking at Homelessness Hub, providing support and budget
• 28:03
  dollars to that era because if we don't, who else is The upper levels
• 28:08
  of government are decreasing their grants that are available and we're here providing that at
• 28:14
  least for the amount that we can afford in our budget. We're providing that
• 28:19
  sector that is not normally our core business. And so you know, looking
• 28:25
  at what MP Moss is doing here, I think is valid and worth moving
• 28:30
  forward and providing some kind of support. But again those discussions have to be
• 28:34
  taking place at budget. And just one last thing, I see a text
• 28:37
  message coming in right now, more socialism, just what we don't need?
• 28:40
  What do you expect with Trudeau? You know the fact the matter is we
• 28:42
  live in a quasi socialist country right now. We all collectively pool our taxes
• 28:48
  that are then used for the benefit of all of us. Do you like
• 28:51
  the sidewalks that you use? Do you like the roads that you drive on?
• 28:52
  Do you like the hospitals that we have, the healthcare system that we
• 28:56
  have. Do you receive an old age benefit? Did you receive a childcare
• 28:59
  benefit top up? Do you like any of these things that exist right now
• 29:02
  where you receive something from the government that is collectively socialism. We could do
• 29:07
  away with all of that, and we could move towards a complete libertarian society
• 29:08
  where it would all fall apart, where you have to go build your own
• 29:11
  roads, build your own electricity grid, build your own water systems. We
• 29:15
  can go to that. We can take away every benefit that you receive right
• 29:18
  now. I don't think any of us want to live in that type of
• 29:22
  a country. So when I see these type of comments coming in more socialism,
• 29:25
  just like we don't need what are you willing to give up to go
• 29:27
  towards your idealistic state of a society. What are the things that you just
• 29:32
  think don't need to exist? Whatsoever could you do without roads? Could you
• 29:36
  do without sidewalks? Could you do without electricity, water, heating, plumbing,
• 29:40
  all of that great stuff because we can get rid of it all.
• 29:41
  Hey, Deputy mayor, It probably a lot easier for your tax burdens as
• 29:45
  a city to get rid of all of that stuff that you have to provide.
• 29:48
  Yeah, zero increase for ten years, ten years exactly voted for you,
• 29:53
  you got to vote. But no, great point. I'm glad you
• 29:56
  brought that up. John two. We do have to take a quick break.
• 29:59
  We are going to come back and continue the conversation here joining us in
• 30:02
  studio. Deputy mayor of the town to come see Joe Bihetti and host here
• 30:06
  on amid hundred of Rose City politics as well, John Lidkey, don't go
• 30:08
  away. It's the Dan McDonald show on AM eight hundred Business. Well,
• 30:12
  hey, good morning and welcome back. It's Dan McDonald. Thank you so
• 30:15
  much for tuning in. You're listening to the Dan McDonald's show on AM eight
• 30:19
  hundred c KLW. And I thought this was a early interesting story and I
• 30:23
  wonder if we're going to see more decisions like this as well. A judge
• 30:27
  ordered a fire setting windsor windsor dangerous offender to be hospitalized not jailed. I
• 30:34
  thought that was a kind of a bold decision to make. And I don't
• 30:38
  know. I wonder some people say, oh, that's too we're too light
• 30:41
  on criminal behavior anymore. But I wonder sometimes is it criminal behavior that's a
• 30:47
  symptom of a different issue. Maybe it's a mental health issue and it's an
• 30:49
  addiction issue, and because of that issue, it becomes a criminal issue,
• 30:52
  and really it's an an unattended health issue. Your thoughts on this though,
• 30:59
  is this judge or ordering this person who is considered a dangerous offender to be
• 31:03
  hospitalized not jailed, jail? Your thoughts on this one this morning? Well,
• 31:08
  when I read this day and I first came to mind, is,
• 31:11
  you know, looking at my former job as a school principal, mental health
• 31:18
  the last three four or five years is on the radar is huge. Is
• 31:22
  a lot of students that are affected by that. And these students get older
• 31:27
  and they become adults, and so now we have a judge here that has
• 31:33
  seen a repeat offender, dangerous offender, and so my mind would be,
• 31:37
  you know, treat you got to treat this like progressive discipline. You know,
• 31:40
  in a school you there's a fight, there's a code of conduct,
• 31:44
  you have a suspension in place, and you suspend the student for a day
• 31:47
  or two. But guess what, they're coming back, right, So they're
• 31:49
  coming back and if we haven't dealt with the issue that why he got into
• 31:53
  that fight, he's going to get into another fight and then it'll be a
• 31:56
  three day suspension. And so that to me is similar to using the analogy
• 32:01
  of the prison system, the jail system. You put them in jail,
• 32:05
  they do their time, they get out, they repeat again. Right,
• 32:08
  So what have we done? So I think that what the judge is trying
• 32:12
  to do in this case here is say, you know, let's see if
• 32:15
  we can find if there's an underlying mental health issues contributing to this behavior,
• 32:19
  let's address it appropriately and see if we can deal with it in that fashion.
• 32:23
  And so I think it's the way that the judges taking this is one
• 32:28
  to offer treatment support, get the medical involved, and address the mental health
• 32:35
  component. Yeah, I agree, John, your thoughts on this decision to
• 32:37
  judge me they said to just to quote the article, they said, you
• 32:40
  know that the judge stepped into legal waters where Canadian judges don't normally tread,
• 32:44
  but your thoughts and his decision for this one. Yeah, this is unprecedented.
• 32:46
  I think we need a bit of contact here with this gentleman forty four
• 32:49
  years old, six urson convictions, most recently for setting fire in the poorhouse
• 32:52
  twenty seventeen downtown, has an IQ of only fifty five, very very low,
• 32:59
  has a history of spending most of his adult life behind bars, sexually
• 33:04
  and physically assaulted from a young age by his parents. This is somebody who
• 33:07
  is in obvious need of help. And he had said the reason why he
• 33:13
  had been setting fires was because he wanted to go to jail to receive housing.
• 33:16
  So in this case we have here the judge saying quite starkly and clearly
• 33:22
  that they don't believe that he would receive They said, no confidence that he'd
• 33:28
  received meaningful treatment while at a federal penal institution. I think we also have
• 33:31
  the issue of the revolving door of our institutions right now, penal institutions where
• 33:37
  we hear these complaints so often we look at the Conservatives federally right now,
• 33:40
  just harping on about bail conditions and people being let out and recidivism and recommitting
• 33:46
  and then just this revolving door. And I think a lot of people would
• 33:49
  like to see more. I don't think, you know, not not necessarily
• 33:52
  tough on crime, but maybe just a bit tougher than what it seems to
• 33:54
  be right now, which seems to be hands off, white glove treatment to
• 33:58
  a certain extent. And I'll I'll be getting yelled at from the left and
• 34:00
  the right with my comments on this one, which means I think that I'm
• 34:02
  probably right on track. I like this though, because if he can't get
• 34:07
  the help he needs in a federal prison, and a provincial psychiatric institution is
• 34:13
  where the help can be applied. And Judge is very clear that he's probably
• 34:16
  going to be spending the rest of his life in custody behind bars anyway.
• 34:20
  So don't think that this is a lighter sentence. The fact matter is we
• 34:22
  made a big mistake in the seventies when we went and we decided to completely
• 34:25
  shut down all of our asylums institutions that we had and everyone was just released
• 34:30
  onto the streets. And we're watching the compound effects of that decades by decades
• 34:35
  by decades going on. And listen, the old system wasn't great. It
• 34:38
  had a lot of problems. There was a reason why they got rid of
• 34:40
  it. But I think that by just passing these people off to the criminal
• 34:45
  justice system in most cases is not the answer either. It's the same conversation
• 34:49
  that we have about whether we're trying to decriminalize drugs to keep people who are
• 34:52
  just drug users in need of help out of the criminal justice system. It's
• 34:54
  the conversation around safe point and allowing for people to be able to u illegal
• 35:00
  drugs, because we recognize that just shuffling people into prison isn't the best place
• 35:05
  for them. But somewhere between, you know, just letting people continually be
• 35:09
  out on the streets causing problems, causing impacts on societies, causing you know,
• 35:15
  deputy mayors to have to deal with phone calls from constituents going why is
• 35:17
  the town not safe anymore? Why don't I feel safe anymore? The perceptions,
• 35:21
  I mean, these are all very real things, and people can we
• 35:23
  can point to the police who say crime is actually down, violent crime is
• 35:27
  down, But if your constituents feel like it isn't and they don't feel safe
• 35:30
  walking down the street, that's a very real issue to deal with. And
• 35:35
  if this is a way that we can help to alleviate situations. I think
• 35:37
  it should be looked at more often. Absolutely, get to take a quick
• 35:39
  break. We're going to come back. John Lidkey and Deputy Mayor of the
• 35:43
  town to come see Joe Biketty. Keep it here, it's the Dan McDonald
• 35:45
  show on AM eight hundred. Hey, good morning and welcome. It's Dan
• 35:50
  McDonald. Thank you so much for tuning in listening to the Dan McDonald's show
• 35:53
  here on AM eight hundred CKLW. Welcome back to a roundtable guest this morning.
• 35:58
  Deputy Mayor of the town to come see Joe Ketty and host here on
• 36:00
  AM eight hundred CKLW. Also host of Rose City Politics, John Lidkey,
• 36:06
  This is an interesting story being in sales. I'm someone who worked in retail
• 36:09
  sales before. But the first line of this article it reads, it's a
• 36:15
  woman who works for a bank and she said she's stressed out by the pressure
• 36:19
  to sell customers products at this bank's affecting her health. She feels like she's
• 36:23
  being set up for filure. So where is the line between excelling at a
• 36:28
  job we're talking about sales and looking out for the customer's best interest. That's
• 36:32
  kind of how sales are always framed. How can I help you? How
• 36:35
  can I make your life easier by selling you the proper product, the proper
• 36:37
  car, the proper airtime, the proper home whatever. It is not just
• 36:42
  targeting this particular banking example, but when I did retail and sales, we
• 36:45
  were told to push push, push, and I recall bringing up to my
• 36:47
  manager. I said, well, I feel bad, like what it is
• 36:50
  keep spending money they don't have And they said no, they'll tell you no,
• 36:52
  they don't want to spend push push, push, and they'll let you
• 36:55
  know when they're done. So I'm like, okay, my job is to
• 36:59
  sell. I'm good to sell. If somebody blows their whole paycheck, how
• 37:01
  much of that is my problem? I met and exceeded my sales goals.
• 37:05
  I don't know. It's a tricky thing. Your thoughts on this kind of
• 37:07
  pressure and where that line is when you're helping your customer as a salesperson versus
• 37:14
  now you're selling them things you don't need, but you're making your supervisor very
• 37:16
  happy or is there a line? You know what I mean? I hate
• 37:21
  this stuff so much. I know, like I get it. Like companies
• 37:23
  want to make more money, increase the bottom line, make sure that your
• 37:27
  c suite gets to take home bigger bonuses each year, like I get it,
• 37:30
  and you get the salesperson gets a commissioned to get a commission and you
• 37:32
  know, God bless private business and free market enterprise. I'm not here against
• 37:37
  that. I've owned a number of businesses in the past, but you know,
• 37:39
  listen, when you have you know, someone who you expect to be
• 37:43
  a trusted representative of a institution, a bank, for example, and you're
• 37:47
  talking about something that can really materially affect you your credit card, your line
• 37:52
  of credit, your mortgage, your mutual funds, anything like that, you
• 37:57
  don't expect to be pressured in a way that might be malicious. And the
• 38:02
  fact that it took a hidden camera to find out that this is occurring is
• 38:07
  it's really gross. And I was actually just listening to a podcast earlier today
• 38:09
  a bit more of an extreme example about it. GM has in their new
• 38:16
  cars a product that's called Smart Driver, and it's like gamification of driving.
• 38:22
  So it's like, hey, Joe, you might want to or you hit
• 38:25
  the brakes perfectly every time this week, you're a break champion, or it
• 38:30
  might say, hey, Dan, you're a little bit heavy with your foot,
• 38:32
  you should maybe just pull it back a bit. What people don't know
• 38:36
  is that it's not just a game, but they're taking all this data and
• 38:38
  analytics and they're selling it off to Lexus Nexus, which is a data collection
• 38:45
  company that is compiling this data and then sending it back to your insurance companies,
• 38:52
  which raises your insurance. So people are getting their insurance reports back and
• 38:55
  they're saying, like, why have I gone up double the price this year?
• 39:00
  And they all in and they get a copy from Lexus Nexus of every
• 39:02
  trip they've taken in their car over the past six months, and it shows
• 39:06
  how fast they drive when they've run gone over the speed limit. The point
• 39:09
  being is it's not the exact same as a pressure tactic. In these cases,
• 39:14
  it's sales people sometimes activating it without your knowledge, but it's still just
• 39:19
  this incessant drive to increase the bottom line at the expense of the customer or
• 39:24
  the client, and at an expense where you're potentially jeopardizing it. Like a
• 39:30
  customer in the future, if I were to find out that my bank was
• 39:34
  acting this way towards me, or that my car was surreptitiously tracking me,
• 39:37
  compiling information, sending it off to my insurance company and raising my rates.
• 39:40
  I'm not gonna buy that car. In the future. I'm gonna be looking
• 39:43
  for a car that's not connected, that's not on the grid, that probably
• 39:45
  continues to run off of an internal combustion engine, rather than an EV one
• 39:49
  that has all these computers in it. Companies need to realize that keeping your
• 39:53
  clients and your customers happy is actually a really smart business tool, especially in
• 39:59
  an era of mass social media and even you know, traditional broadcast media,
• 40:04
  where people can go on their radio and say, I don't like what GM
• 40:07
  is doing with this smart driver technology. I think it is awful. So
• 40:13
  yeah, yeah, I hear you. Tell us how you really forget?
• 40:15
  Yeah? No, Joe, your what are your thoughts on that line with
• 40:17
  helping helping clients and meeting your sales goals exceeding your sales goals? Well?
• 40:22
  In this article here with the banks, you know they have these employees have
• 40:27
  an ethical responsibility to act in the best interests of their customers, and this
• 40:30
  means providing accurate information, offering products and service that they need. Uh.
• 40:36
  You look at the pressure to sell. There is a pressure to sell.
• 40:37
  I have friends who hate selling and they were in the banking industry and they
• 40:42
  got out just the fact that they weren't meeting the targets and they felt that
• 40:45
  pressure that they were incompetent. They couldn't do it. Uh, it comes
• 40:50
  to a point where we need our regulatory compliance and and we do have in
• 40:54
  Canada that Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, but they're known to be toothless.
• 41:00
  There's no real enforcement of that, and I think that's where we need to
• 41:04
  look at that agency there maybe I think in the article talked about twenty million
• 41:10
  dollars in fines over the last twenty years compared to the US where there are
• 41:15
  regulators in the UK as well have issued billions of fines over the past ten
• 41:21
  years. So we have to look at the agencies that are protecting and overseeing
• 41:25
  the bank regulators in terms of this pressure tactic. And when a client says
• 41:30
  no once twice, you have to be able to be cognizant of the fact
• 41:34
  that we don't want to cross that line. And so we are crossing that
• 41:37
  line when employees are prioritizing meeting sales targets over ethical behavior and customer welfare.
• 41:44
  So that to me is crossing the line is when you're not putting the customers
• 41:47
  first in terms of what their needs are. When you were saying that,
• 41:51
  actually when you're both talking. I saw a great documentary, not a documentary,
• 41:54
  was a film, but it was all based in truth. I was
• 41:57
  called Dope Sick, and it was about the sales as sociate with oxycotton.
• 42:00
  When oxycotton was this miracle painkiller drug that was changing lives and get your life
• 42:05
  back, reclaim. We're helping clients take back their control of their lives and
• 42:08
  conquer pain. And it was pitched and the salespeople were just making cash,
• 42:13
  hand over fist and it was up the dose and all these nifty slogans.
• 42:15
  There were pillows and plushies shaped like all the animals shaped like oxy cotton pills.
• 42:21
  This obviously predates the the opioid epidemic, but it caused the opioid epidemic.
• 42:25
  And it was all because of you know, push push, push,
• 42:29
  cell cell sell until wor get out. This is not ethical. It's still
• 42:32
  continued, I mean to, but it's it's that line, right, that
• 42:36
  line of what is ethical? Are you here to make money or help people
• 42:38
  talking about societal contagion here, and I think it's really important that you do
• 42:44
  actually bring up the dope sick example with oxytoxin great movie, because quite frankly,
• 42:51
  you're talking about, you know, industries that are preying on people in
• 42:54
  ways that are creating unforeseen or maybe foreseen side effects that reveal verberate throughout our
• 43:00
  society, causing people like our Deputy mayor here to have to deal with very
• 43:04
  real implications. Whether it's somebody who has become addicted to opioids and has ended
• 43:08
  up on the streets and is causing situations that you have to deal with from
• 43:13
  a health and human services point of view, or whether it is someone who
• 43:17
  has been preyed on financially and lost their savings as a result of it,
• 43:22
  who has ended up on the street and is causing situations for the Deputy mayor
• 43:25
  that you have to deal with through a health and human services lens. I
• 43:30
  mean, these are very real issue and that's why I'm using this term social
• 43:32
  contagion because it spreads because it is being pushed and that is the very real
• 43:39
  concern, and that's why we need to have strong regulators, strong legislation to
• 43:44
  be able to deal with this, because the add on effects of this are
• 43:47
  far more than just the one victim who ended up addicted to a drug or
• 43:52
  ended up losing their life savings. It is the add on effect to the
• 43:57
  society writ large, where now everybody in that city has to collectively take care
• 44:00
  of that person, because that's the way our legislation works. You need to
• 44:04
  provide an adequate number of shelter beds, you need to be able to provide
• 44:07
  an adequate number of meals if you want to you know, not see the
• 44:12
  drop off effects quite frankly, So this social contagion is real and it's something
• 44:15
  that needs to get a handle on. And in the fact that it's happening
• 44:16
  in our banking sector not surprising. But this is what government's for. So
• 44:21
  government got a government. Yeah, quick break, we're gonna come back.
• 44:23
  Nine point forty four. Keep it here. Dan mcdonald' show with our roundtable
• 44:27
  guests Joe Backetty and John Lidkey. Don't go away, Hey, good morning
• 44:34
  and welcome back. It's Dan McDonald. Welcome back to our roundtable as well,
• 44:37
  Deputy Mayor of Talent to come see Joe Backetty and host here on AM
• 44:40
  eight hundred CKLW and Roast City Politics John Lidkey, This is an interesting one.
• 44:45
  The headline red leave our town alone. York One Waste Solutions wants to
• 44:49
  transform an old landfill in Dresden into a recycling facility for construction material. So,
• 44:53
  as I understand it not not the stinky garbage like, it's more like
• 44:58
  construction material type of garbage. Re Residents are strongly opposed to the idea,
• 45:01
  and they learned about it just in January, and they're really pushing back should
• 45:06
  the location be relocated? Because of the response from the municipality. I would
• 45:10
  love to hear your thoughts this. They're saying lack of public consultation and the
• 45:14
  Municipality of Chatham Kent not backing down in its fight against this proposed waste management
• 45:19
  facility. The municipality filing this submission and the mayor is penning a letter to
• 45:23
  Ontario's Ministry of the Government of the Environment on this. They're saying, no,
• 45:27
  we don't want this landfill. We just found out about this, we
• 45:30
  don't want it. Your thoughts on this? This is I feel like this
• 45:32
  is going to be a never ending situation with all kinds of things. And
• 45:36
  Joe, you said you've dealt with with similar situations before, but what are
• 45:38
  your thoughts on this case here? Well, this is a classic example of
• 45:43
  red flags all over the place. You've got a company here coming in November,
• 45:47
  purchasing the property and almost you know, perception wise, trying to sneak
• 45:52
  something in without much public debate, much information coming to the community or the
• 45:58
  residents, or even the soul itself. Right, And so in this case
• 46:01
  here Dresden and Chatham Kent, the mayor and council unancy are penning a letter
• 46:07
  offering and in terms of you know, not supporting this uh purchase in in
• 46:14
  terms of application to the ministry that area, there is the former jurisdiction of
• 46:22
  the MPP Marty McNaughton, so there's really and he resigned, so there's really
• 46:25
  no standing MPP right now at the moment. And so again you put all
• 46:30
  those things into play. Is this something where someone's trying to push something in
• 46:34
  without a voice at the provincial level. So you know, you got to
• 46:37
  thank all our local MPPs. I know they've been working hard with Chatham Kent
• 46:43
  in terms of trying to raise this as an issue and as a concern,
• 46:46
  and it's valid. The residents there are crime foul because of the lack of
• 46:51
  public consultation, the lack of transparency in the application. So I know,
• 46:57
  I did have conversations with MPP Trevor Jones and and he's made some lobbying activists
• 47:06
  towards the ministry and they are reviewing it. So right now this application is
• 47:09
  under review because this company is trying to use an old permit to mow and
• 47:15
  move forward. And so it's not just a matter of you know, bringing
• 47:19
  recycling with Teiro and you know, have all these trucks coming down the road
• 47:22
  from Toronto. It's not right, it's not fair. And so I give
• 47:27
  credit to chat Up Kent Counsel for standing up and advocating for the people there,
• 47:31
  because we need, we need to listen to the residents in that case.
• 47:34
  Right, Okay, John, your thoughts on this one this morning?
• 47:37
  I got no buy in on this one, so I guess I can really
• 47:38
  just like let out my thoughts on it quite frankly. You know, listen,
• 47:44
  private business is going to do what private business is going to do.
• 47:45
  They bought the land, they're trying to use an existing permit and hoping that
• 47:50
  it's grandfathered in. They've put the application through the province to try to get
• 47:52
  it. I think the biggest point of this is probably not the actual waste
• 47:57
  that's being brought here, but the fact that they're looking to expand it,
• 47:59
  and then the quiet well what might happen next? This is what we have
• 48:04
  public input for. This is a process that is inherently provincial. But when
• 48:08
  you have you know, the municipalities coming forward and complaining and saying, look,
• 48:13
  our residents don't want this, we don't want this. As the elected
• 48:15
  officials, we think that there should be some provincial consideration into it. I
• 48:20
  think the province is going to take that into account here, especially considering,
• 48:23
  as you said, the seats open. They're not wanting to look at,
• 48:25
  you know, not being able to pick up another seat here or take any
• 48:30
  hits. Quite frankly on the political file, I think that this would be
• 48:34
  a much bigger issue if this was you know, municipal waste, resident waste,
• 48:38
  stuff that's coming out of people's houses and not construction materials that they're hoping
• 48:43
  to recycle eighty percent of it by But again, I'm going to just take
• 48:45
  the easy answer here where I'm not going to get yelled at by anyone.
• 48:49
  I think that the people who are most directly impacted by this should have a
• 48:52
  say an impact on what their community looks like. Yeah, agree that we
• 48:58
  always we always read rep with the around table say when I call plugged in,
• 49:00
  And I also want to take a minute to introduce someone who showed up
• 49:04
  for the plugged in segment. Uh, political consultant Paul sentate Paul, you
• 49:07
  came at the right time. Yeah, I blame it on the daylight saving
• 49:13
  time. Somehow this disappointment ended up in my calendar for ten ams, exactly
• 49:17
  what we thought. I just don't get it. Well, sorry, I
• 49:20
  know I missed a great discussion. It was a good time. Nobody.
• 49:22
  Hey, but you're here and you're you're totally allowed to do the plugged in?
• 49:25
  What would you like to plug in? This morning? That bically the
• 49:29
  same as the last time I'm here. The time is fast approaching April first,
• 49:31
  On April Fool's Day, appropriately at fog Lounge, you're gonna be launching
• 49:36
  a Windsor's new satirical website, nice the Daily Bungle. Yes it's not news,
• 49:43
  but it's relevant. It's gonna be a satirical look at news in Windsor
• 49:45
  and Essex County. The people, you know, others have done it very
• 49:50
  successfully, ye global, you know, in a national scale like you know
• 49:52
  Colbert and everything. I think it's a way to reach out to a new,
• 49:57
  younger generation. A lot of people get their news it's Instagram and the
• 50:01
  Wholbert Report and things like that. Uh So it's a way to foster discussion
• 50:07
  and have a little fun with it at the same time. We know it's
• 50:08
  so funny when it comes to getting news back in the day. The big
• 50:10
  major headlines when I was in high school, how I kind of found out
• 50:14
  found out But a lot of them was from watching the late night monologues from
• 50:16
  Jay Leno and David Letterman because they did it was it was presented in a
• 50:20
  comedic context. But I would say, ooh, what is that they're talking
• 50:23
  about here? And I would kind of go, like, look it up
• 50:24
  in the newspaper, in the magazine if there was no Internet, But yeah,
• 50:29
  how we get their interesting. So yeah, I wouldn't have known about
• 50:32
  the whole Clinton scandal if not for dat. So healthy, I'm glad you
• 50:37
  made it for the final segment. Paul, it's it's good, it's good,
• 50:39
  Hay in studio. We thought you were partying too hard for Saint Patrick's
• 50:43
  station unfortunately. Well, it's great to have you in here. Joe.
• 50:46
  Joe Bacatti, Deputy mayor town to Cumcy. What would you like to plug
• 50:50
  in this morning? Thank you Dan. I got two quick plugs. The
• 50:52
  first one where my hat as a Board of director member for the Giovanni Caboto
• 50:55
  Club. Shout out to our president Robert Braid. Under his leadership, the
• 51:00
  club's membership finally made historic decision to allow all genders to become members, which
• 51:05
  will allow us to take significant steps toward inclusivity. A lot of exciting things
• 51:09
  are happening at Cabodo Club leading up to the twenty twenty five centennial year celebration.
• 51:15
  But one particular event that's going to happen this fall is well underway,
• 51:17
  and it's the return of the Cabodo Grapefest. Were featuring local wineries and Cabodo's
• 51:22
  famous foods. So make note in your calendar September thirteenth to fifteenth Cabodo Griepfest
• 51:29
  is back. That's great to hear. Fantastic news. Second plug. We're
• 51:32
  in another hat. As chair of the Essex County Library Board, we are
• 51:36
  kicking off our Pitching Cleanup Challenge. This is part of the great Global Cleanup
• 51:40
  initiative that our Library Board is promoting. Each local branch will have available cleanup
• 51:45
  kits that contain donated bags gloves, so any residents can go to their local
• 51:50
  library and get their kits. Dates for the spring challenges from March twenty three
• 51:54
  to April twenty seven, So bring out your family, friends, get active,
• 51:59
  keep our community clean and most importantly stay safe. And when done,
• 52:02
  fill out a ballot and take a photo and use a hashtag ecl Cleanup and
• 52:07
  we will post on our social media special things. Our community partners, Essex
• 52:12
  Region Conservation Authority and the Essex winsor Solid Waste Authority hope to see a lot
• 52:15
  of participation. I hope so too, and I would love to talk to
• 52:17
  somebody from the Essex County Library more about that because I am a big fan
• 52:22
  of libraries. I love the Essex County Libraries. That's why I did my
• 52:24
  book club with and yeah, that's a fantastic initiative. I love that.
• 52:28
  Thank you so much. Looking forward to absolutely last but not least mister John
• 52:31
  Lacky, what would like to plug in this morning? Joe? Are there
• 52:34
  going to be like the big wooden vats with the grapes in it? Can
• 52:37
  I take off my shoes and stomp grapes? That's on the Sunday event.
• 52:39
  We're still under planning stages. But again, if you remember, this was
• 52:44
  started back in nineteen seventy one, ended in nineteen ninety two, it's been
• 52:47
  thirty years. But again, the feel is that we want to bring that
• 52:52
  feel back. So the grape stomping is one of the considerations, and we'll
• 52:55
  make sure you guys are all invited because I want to feel grapes between my
• 52:59
  toast. It sounds like fun mi plugged in. Make sure to tune into
• 53:04
  Rose City Politics. We broadcast every Saturday. As you mentioned the top of
• 53:07
  the show, Dan, thank you so much. Fetch with John Lidkey my
• 53:10
  new podcast. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. And you
• 53:15
  know, we're still seeing increased anti Semitism and anti Islam behavior right now in
• 53:22
  our society and it's pretty gross and disgusting and we're so much better than that,
• 53:25
  so let's not and let's just keep trying to, you know, quote
• 53:30
  a Christian phrase, be our better angels. I like it. I think
• 53:34
  that's a Christian phrase. I don't know. I'm sure I do my best.
• 53:37
  John Lydkey, Joe Bihetti, Paul send it. Thank you so much
• 53:40
  for a great round table. Paul, thank you for a wonderful plugged in
• 53:44
  segment. All good, All good. More conversation is on the way.
• 53:49
  Keep it here. It's the Dan McDonald, Joe on a eight hundred.
• 54:15
  Hey everyone, welcome to Rose City Politics March twenty fourth. That's today.
• 54:21
  Regular panel includes Doug Startry, Don Merryfield, Junior Fraser Fathers, and myself,
• 54:25
  John Lydkey. Head to patreon dot com slash Rose City Politics for your
• 54:30
  Rose City Politics guarantee. It's well worth your money and we give you the
• 54:34
  full guarantee if you listen to the last episode. You know what it comes
• 54:37
  with. Hey, Don, how you doing. I'm good after wandering around
• 54:39
  for a few weeks on my motorcycle down south pretending it was summer. Yeah,
• 54:44
  well it fun. Fact it's not well and certainly not here either.
• 54:47
  No go pick up a vizech magazine. We are online. We're banned in
• 54:52
  some places increasingly, it seems like maybe more as of late. If you're
• 54:55
  thinking of banning us from your location, feel free to reach out to us
• 54:59
  and the DMS. We won't advertise your premise. It's the downtown Taco belve.
• 55:02
  It's the most disappointing right there. Funny enough, all of West Virginia
• 55:07
  when I was there, hated us, fully banned. I'm grumpy. So
• 55:13
  Don messaged us at ten fifty today going, oh, are we meeting at
• 55:15
  twelve? And I was like, don you fool We said we were going
• 55:20
  to be meeting at three, No, to which I looked at my calendar
• 55:22
  and it said twelve, to which I went through the chat and yeah,
• 55:25
  we did land on twelve. All this to say, I didn't get to
• 55:30
  have my breakfast for lunch because I was scheduled for twelve. I was gonna
• 55:32
  have a big breakfast line. So my stomach is grumbling, and we're keeping
• 55:37
  a young man from his That was it's not just brunch though, It's like
• 55:42
  it's a literal brunch. This is like he's a millennial too. This is
• 55:45
  like millennial hate crime. I know he doesn't pebbles in the morning. He
• 55:50
  cannot operate all day. Well, fortunately Don has provided me with a cigar
• 55:54
  here. Yeah, that's right, get us through the cigarantee you will get
• 55:58
  you through Rose City Politics. To video has bottomless mimosas by the perfect excellent,
• 56:02
  because I've already got this bowl here in case I need to sit in.
• 56:07
  You only get one. You have to drink at bottom. Damn it.
• 56:12
  Well me stand up and get started. You have so many rules,
• 56:17
  Frasier. I can't go spitting into the spatoon provided I can't go taken off
• 56:22
  the pants. Fraser eightes bottomless mimosas. That's the first episode title of the
• 56:27
  show. There you go drink everyone. Okay, So this is an interesting
• 56:30
  story. It was really propelled by a really good friend of Rose City Politics,
• 56:37
  Melinda Monroe, who brought forward a complaint. And we've found out that
• 56:40
  Windsor City Council did indeed violate Ontario's Municipal Act during a closed door meeting on
• 56:47
  taking over the Business Improvement Associations. We have talked about this before. We
• 56:52
  don't really need to go into detail. I think with our dedicated listenership,
• 56:55
  you're all aware of this story. When it happened. What the back story
• 56:59
  is city ended up having to get aired and Bearless lawyers to investigate this as
• 57:06
  part of the Municipal Act, and their report found that no public resolution to
• 57:10
  enter or discuss the takeover in a closed session was indeed against the law.
• 57:15
  In response, council voted for better public notice of meetings and the city Clerk
• 57:22
  is improving transparency by making agendas and minutes public. Well, there you go,
• 57:28
  which I'm pretty sure was already a statutory requirement. But I love how
• 57:31
  that's the outcome of this. This is you know what, I'm just going
• 57:35
  to dive into this right now. Actually, before you say that this is
• 57:38
  funny talking about public notices and stuff. I saw something I don't know what
• 57:42
  it was on Twitter, but it was something to do with the government,
• 57:44
  and instead of redacting it in black, they redacted it in white. So
• 57:47
  it just looked like there was nothing after the report. So when you were
• 57:52
  reading, okay, that must be the end. No, they redacted it
• 57:53
  in white, so you couldn't tell there was actually more there. That is
• 57:57
  great. See that would be a good thing where if you were able to
• 57:59
  download it, could go control a and you would see the redaction existing and
• 58:02
  that they just changed the back. I don't know these things. The I
• 58:06
  like the idea of redactions through just using the white fine. Yeah, it's
• 58:09
  the equivalent of white out anyway, carry on. I didn't mean interrupt.
• 58:16
  So the response that council said was that, Okay, we voted for improving
• 58:21
  transparency by making agendas and meetings minutes public, which again is already a statutory
• 58:25
  requirement as I understand it to be. This is one of those things,
• 58:30
  and we'll get into the substance of it. But I can't stand that when
• 58:35
  council does something wrong or administration does something wrong, and in this case,
• 58:40
  you know, an egregious wrong, where there were multiple people who should have
• 58:44
  known that this was wrong. There were multiple administration that were involved in this
• 58:47
  meeting when it occurred. The recourse for the citizenry is onerous. It takes
• 58:54
  time, it costs us money as taxpayers, and in this case we get
• 59:00
  a response of well, we're just going to keep doing what we were doing.
• 59:05
  No wonder people, we see the lowest voter turnout in this city.
• 59:08
  Even when you go and deal with the violations that occur, it feels like
• 59:15
  we're just watching whose line is it? Anyway? The rules are made up
• 59:19
  and the points don't matterquence, but I want to I want to push back.
• 59:22
  Then I want to argue again, Like what do you want? You
• 59:24
  want the clerk flogged? I want the people responsible for governing the municipality broke
• 59:37
  their own rules and no, they broke Ontario law. They broke their own
• 59:40
  rules and they broke on Sorry, they did break laws. And the consequence
• 59:47
  is that that information becomes public like this is political right and and this is
• 59:55
  purely in the political realm. I think, like the reason that the reason
• 1:00:02
  that the mechanism exists to investigate closed meetings is because your legitimacy rests on your
• 1:00:10
  compliance with the law. Right, your legitimacy rests all on the municipal act,
• 1:00:15
  on the ultimately on the Constitution of Canada, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:00:19
  That is the legitimacy through which anyone with power in government acts. So
• 1:00:24
  I think revealing to the public that they didn't take their work as seriously as
• 1:00:32
  perhaps they should have, that they cut a corner, that they violated a
• 1:00:36
  rule, like, that's how it's supposed to work the public. Now,
• 1:00:38
  the next stage in that process is the public is supposed to take that information
• 1:00:43
  into account and it's the ballot box and it's exactly and its judgments, and
• 1:00:46
  I just don't think that, Like, I don't know what, and maybe
• 1:00:52
  you guys have an idea that I don't, but I don't know what.
• 1:00:54
  Like what formal punishment would you want for a municipality that they broke the closed
• 1:01:00
  meeting rule? Who's the head of council and Drew flogged? Well, I
• 1:01:05
  mean maybe a financial penalty. Well, that's what I'm thinking. Why not
• 1:01:09
  dock somebody a day's because if this was private business, there would be fire.
• 1:01:15
  But we can't go firing an elected official. I get that as much
• 1:01:17
  as you know some of us would like to fire some people, and quite
• 1:01:21
  frankly the opposite. I'd like to bring back Paul Burrelly just for the laughs.
• 1:01:25
  That's your penalty. You all have to deal with it. And he
• 1:01:30
  goes to make all the decisions. Paul is a counselor at large, but
• 1:01:34
  his vote is worth six standing our CP invitation, John wants to do a
• 1:01:37
  one on one with Paul any time, any the time, name the place,
• 1:01:43
  and you know what if he acts now, if he gets back to
• 1:01:46
  me by the end of the day today, because this will be up for
• 1:01:50
  at least twelve hours. I will give him the choice of the topic.
• 1:01:54
  Hell yeah, I don't care what I don't care what it is. We'll
• 1:01:58
  just have a conversation about what you want. But I'm cycling on sidewalks,
• 1:02:00
  pa. Yeah, so let me ask you this question. I'm going to
• 1:02:04
  ask questions and I'd say anything when these meeting cop out, I haven't been
• 1:02:08
  around for a few weeks. I don't have any opinions except I want to
• 1:02:12
  go back to the mountains. So when these meetings are set up, so
• 1:02:15
  like when this meeting happened, whatever it was the org or the case might
• 1:02:16
  be. So the mayor and council goes, we have to have this meeting.
• 1:02:22
  They go to administration, say book the room, blah blah. Who
• 1:02:23
  makes the final decision on how the meeting is going to be either public,
• 1:02:28
  private, or how it's going to be conducted? Is it the politicians say,
• 1:02:30
  we're having a private meeting, give us a private room. Yeah,
• 1:02:34
  so, as I understand it, Yeah, Council moves in and out of
• 1:02:37
  closed session at their own They have to vote to enter, vote to lead
• 1:02:40
  kind of thing, and so and so when we say there's more transparency now
• 1:02:45
  and they're now going to actually post these things. Like so if you actually
• 1:02:46
  go on the city's website you look under the agenda's page, there are now
• 1:02:51
  two new sections to under every council meeting in the sort of links for downloads.
• 1:02:55
  You got the regular agenda, you have the consolidated agenda. There's now
• 1:02:59
  an in camera agenda. Often it's sort of quasi, like you know,
• 1:03:02
  it says something like you know, in camera matter about property sale and no
• 1:03:07
  other information, but you can see the agenda of like these are the three
• 1:03:08
  or four things, and then in the minutes of the session it's like voted
• 1:03:13
  to go in camera at this time, agreed to whatever, voted to go
• 1:03:16
  back to open session at this time. So there you can see now the
• 1:03:20
  topics and things like that which never were there. So when things like when
• 1:03:24
  Jason Rainer was or was fired, or when they were striking a deal about
• 1:03:29
  the Gray site, there was an in camera meeting, but there was never
• 1:03:31
  any public agenda about that unless you were like reading between the lines of like
• 1:03:36
  the council final minutes, where it's like where the outcome of that had to
• 1:03:40
  go back to public session for sort of extra final so there is more and
• 1:03:45
  now in essence based on what the story says is that you know, in
• 1:03:50
  this case, the challenge was they shouldn't have been in camera and there should
• 1:03:52
  have been a public notice of meeting for this session. Pretty much going forward,
• 1:03:57
  if there's in camera items for future council meetings that they know are going
• 1:04:00
  to be in camera, they're already listed on the agenda as that separate things,
• 1:04:03
  so they're going to be you know that, I'm just gonna make a
• 1:04:05
  couple of things up that on the May twentieth meeting of Council they're in camera
• 1:04:10
  about this property item, this personnel item, and this other thing that is
• 1:04:14
  in camera, and that's now listed on the city's website, which is an
• 1:04:17
  improvement in transparency because previously none of that was there. So again, like
• 1:04:25
  there is a gray area in my opinion around what is or isn't in camera,
• 1:04:30
  right, like you know, what is an identifiable individual. You know,
• 1:04:32
  we've had the conversation about the striking committees for to populate committees and things
• 1:04:36
  like that. London does that in open session. Literally, like I like
• 1:04:41
  this guy's resume, like all the resumes are in their general they are in
• 1:04:45
  their general agenda, you know, and it's like, Okay, we've got
• 1:04:47
  five people who counselors put forward names based on the you know, ten resumes
• 1:04:51
  that are in front of them. It should be and like it could be
• 1:04:55
  and like so those are those are the conversations. But that's where it's it's
• 1:04:59
  a gray area because in theory it's about identifiable individuals and it's about the interpretation
• 1:05:02
  of that. So yeah, so it cares so much about identifiable individuals.
• 1:05:06
  Meanwhile, I apply for a FOYA and they send an email straight from the
• 1:05:10
  FOYL office to all department heads. Heylyn Key's asking for some stuff. Heads
• 1:05:15
  up, Well, fair enough, So so I just want to I just
• 1:05:19
  want to kind of put a put a bow on top of that. So
• 1:05:24
  there was a consequence, and the consequence is that the municipality is self regulating
• 1:05:29
  more tightly now and providing more information than it did before. So in a
• 1:05:33
  way that you know, not even in a way the system works like the
• 1:05:38
  you know, there was a meeting that a that a resident Melinda questioned and
• 1:05:45
  filed the public meeting complaint. The complaint was upheld, and now there has
• 1:05:49
  been moved you know, so so I think ultimately like this is what what
• 1:05:55
  else could you possibly expect to happen here? A flogging? Yeah, so
• 1:06:00
  let's I didn't interrupt you if you have more to say. But so,
• 1:06:03
  as Fraser were saying, okay, now this has to be posted, so
• 1:06:05
  let's just make up something again. The May twentieth meeting, they decide to
• 1:06:10
  have something in camera again that shouldn't be in camera. We find out a
• 1:06:13
  year later because someone files a complaint that whoever investigates these things says, well,
• 1:06:16
  that shouldn't have been in camera either, it should have been public.
• 1:06:19
  There's still no consequences, so they can keep doing this over and over again,
• 1:06:25
  and the only outcome is they say, don't do that anymore, and
• 1:06:28
  then they okay, I'll put it, and then they do it again.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, but there's never any consequences. There can be escalating consequences. So
• 1:06:33
  but earther, that's the qual So you see, this is not the first
• 1:06:36
  time we've heard this happen. I agree, But I also think, like
• 1:06:40
  you've you have seen in other municipalities where you know, where there's regular and
• 1:06:45
  continuous breaches of conflict, the ministry gets involved, right, and that's sort
• 1:06:48
  of the escalation that I think those lawyers that the recommendation from the lawyers was
• 1:06:54
  make sure you don't do this again post the like they fulfilled. From my
• 1:06:57
  understanding, the recommendations of the lawyers. The lawyers could come back and say,
• 1:07:02
  your clerk is incompetent, Fire your clerk, like they could do those
• 1:07:06
  things like that could be the recommendation. They could go, oh, we've
• 1:07:10
  actually sent this to the Ministry of Municipal Affairs. They should be involved,
• 1:07:15
  and you know they have to take over your council, right, like that's
• 1:07:16
  the recommend that your council's corrupt. You must be disbanded and new elections must
• 1:07:20
  be called. Like these things can go that way. Those are absolute extreme
• 1:07:25
  cases that would like I'm like, if one of us violates a by law
• 1:07:30
  and we're found to have violated it, they give us a ticket, then
• 1:07:32
  we have to pay a financial penalty. They violated their own by law.
• 1:07:38
  There should be more recourse. I read the by laws. Ever, I
• 1:07:41
  read the fine by law every year at budget time and there's no fine.
• 1:07:45
  I know it sucks. Camera violation point the province should go, we're withholding
• 1:07:51
  one point three seven percent of something that so it does I know, But
• 1:07:57
  then I fuck I didn't. I pulled it back. But that would also
• 1:08:00
  be elected official to not do this in the future. There should be something
• 1:08:05
  that does hurt. If the mayor or whoever the bosses down there says we're
• 1:08:12
  going to do this camera meeting and in the back of their mind they know
• 1:08:15
  we probably shouldn't be doing this, and it turns out the province does it,
• 1:08:19
  there should be a financial penity to that person, the mayor, they
• 1:08:24
  know what. The mayor loses a week. But whatever the case, man,
• 1:08:27
  Okay, you guys want to dock people's pay. What other option is?
• 1:08:30
  There's blogging us like, I just think that. I just think that
• 1:08:35
  I didn't think you'd be on the side of the administ Why would you stop
• 1:08:39
  doing you guys, there's no Doug standing up for the Elisee. I bet
• 1:08:45
  you were the one who had the bottom of momos R. Well he was,
• 1:08:47
  he was in the Hampton's last week. I can use its right now.
• 1:08:51
  Now we got to do the explicit teg. I told myself that there
• 1:08:57
  was a consequence, the real consequence. But and and to Fraser's point,
• 1:09:02
  there's the potential for escalating consequences. What this does is put this on record,
• 1:09:08
  right, so if there are and and I think it's like, it's
• 1:09:11
  understandable why people are cynical, especially why people who are close observers of municipal
• 1:09:15
  politics are cynical. And and I'm glad to have the opportunity to clarify my
• 1:09:19
  perspective, Like, like, you can see the procedural shenanigans that get played
• 1:09:27
  all the time, sure, and and it's frustrating, and it creates a
• 1:09:30
  sense of grievance. And so when there is a finding there was actually a
• 1:09:34
  complaint filed, there was actually a finding, And and I think, like,
• 1:09:40
  if I can psychologize Don and John right now, you guys are thinking
• 1:09:44
  of the entire laundry list of the last decade plus, sure of frustrations and
• 1:09:49
  being like I want to pin all of that, this finding should be the
• 1:09:53
  consequence for all of that is I just don't think that's reasonable. Let me
• 1:09:58
  respond to that. I think that's a very a fair point that you're coming
• 1:10:00
  with. And I think that the fact that in the course of our city's
• 1:10:05
  history, recorded through our regulations and procedures, that we've had to go now
• 1:10:14
  and change how we report on the agendas of in camera publicly. The fact
• 1:10:19
  that that has occurred now, after our storied history of what over one hundred
• 1:10:24
  and fifty years as a city or whatever the number is, that shows how
• 1:10:29
  much shenanigans that there actually are. We were able to get through all of
• 1:10:32
  that time up till now, and no one cared about what happened to Camra.
• 1:10:36
  So hold on, hold on, hold on, because like there is
• 1:10:39
  legitimate reason to being ham I agree, and so no, but what you're
• 1:10:42
  saying, what you just said, is like this was the first time they
• 1:10:45
  got caught, and like that's not necessarily what is happening. It was the
• 1:10:48
  first time they got caught enough that there was a need to change their procedures.
• 1:10:53
  It's the first time that political games or chicanery or procedural chicanery has resulted
• 1:10:59
  in a finding. Yes, And I think that speaks a lot to the
• 1:11:02
  fact that listen, maybe they were doing a bunch of shenanigans over the past
• 1:11:06
  one hundred and fifty years and they just had a better holdover things. But
• 1:11:10
  I think that that's actually harder to justify because we're in an error right now
• 1:11:14
  without any media introspection, not introspection, but a media investigation holding people accountable
• 1:11:19
  in the way that was done under editorialists and columnists. Like the fact that
• 1:11:25
  it took to now in this environment where they should be able to act with
• 1:11:28
  impunity quite frankly, no, So again, like so they stepped over the
• 1:11:33
  line in this case. But like, let's go back through the airing of
• 1:11:38
  grievances of nasty in camera things that have happened. So the Jason rain Are
• 1:11:41
  firing, that is absolutely a proper in camera meeting, agreed, So you
• 1:11:45
  know, but that's that's wrapped up in your grievances, the what's his name?
• 1:11:50
  Their procedural question he didn't get his hearing, true, But like again,
• 1:11:58
  but like the actually in camera meeting, that's a separate or that is
• 1:12:00
  a separate that you know, they which which he chose to. I'm not
• 1:12:03
  just saying that in camera isn't necessary and justified when it does actually come to
• 1:12:08
  hr issues. So but like again, like all of this is getting wrapped
• 1:12:12
  up in like this was a time that they did it wrong. The process
• 1:12:15
  worked, they have changed process as a result of that. Someone could have
• 1:12:19
  and you could still if John, if you want to be you want to
• 1:12:23
  be the inquisitive reporter. Here's what I would do. File a FOYA around
• 1:12:27
  all emails related to that in camera meeting between the clerk and the mayor,
• 1:12:30
  and then go and see did someone ask a question about that? And if
• 1:12:35
  the clerk raised it and it went in camera anyways, well then it was
• 1:12:39
  a political decision driven by the mayor. And then you have an actual grievance
• 1:12:43
  to file against the mayor, which you can say he illegally struck that in
• 1:12:45
  camera meeting, and then there would be potential consequences for the mayor under the
• 1:12:49
  Municipal Act. That's a lot of work. Well, so then shut up.
• 1:12:54
  That's a lot of work. We'll go back and eat your fruity pebbles.
• 1:12:56
  But it was supposed to be bottomless from hoses as much as a fruity
• 1:13:00
  pebbles. I don't think shut up is the right term, because the right
• 1:13:06
  term I mean sometimes we should have shut up, but we normally say close
• 1:13:11
  that hole. So, but isn't the problem. The only reason this came
• 1:13:18
  out was because it was a complaint filed. So this happens all the time.
• 1:13:23
  But we can't expect Melinda to go and file every complaint for here,
• 1:13:27
  But that's that's a system across the province, right, well, that system.
• 1:13:30
  I don't disagree that the system is problematic, but like that is this
• 1:13:33
  we don't want. We don't want a procedural harm on it or from the
• 1:13:36
  from the senior government in every meeting exactly of course, not like we have
• 1:13:42
  to self regulate ourselves. So what we're really saying is that Windsor doesn't do
• 1:13:45
  a good enough job of overseeing itself. No, it's because I think they
• 1:13:47
  know they can get away with shit, so they don't bother worrying about it.
• 1:13:50
  That's how everybody works. But that's that's fine, But when you get
• 1:13:55
  caught, there should be more consequences than Okay, put this on the website.
• 1:13:59
  Yeah, call your MPP and advocate for that. And that goes to
• 1:14:01
  my point though John, he doesn't talk to me anymore, But that goes
• 1:14:08
  to my point that it took up until now for something to change procedurally because
• 1:14:13
  they recognized that, Yeah, they did overstep too much. Do you remember
• 1:14:17
  all the crap that happened in Amasburg, all these camera meetings, like they
• 1:14:20
  literally had the exactly so like it can happen, right, but how long
• 1:14:26
  did that take? Now there's well you have to build a case, right,
• 1:14:29
  like it has to be serial like if this was just a one off,
• 1:14:31
  you know, the clerk was pebbles again, this was like the clerk
• 1:14:35
  was on vacation when like they didn't get proper legal proceeding and they thought like,
• 1:14:40
  oh, because there's a political vulnerability that's been created by this report.
• 1:14:46
  And you can see that that's true because there was no complaint, there was
• 1:14:50
  no argument. The municipality implemented the recommendations immediately, so like like they're going
• 1:14:59
  to think long and hard before they make this same commit this same mistake again
• 1:15:02
  because it's it is escalating consequences and not even the escalating consequences potential of formal
• 1:15:10
  consequences, the political consequences are also escalating. And you saw the political hedging,
• 1:15:15
  like in the counselors who were talked to in this story, Counselor Francis
• 1:15:18
  said like, I'm all for more transparency, and Counselor Mackenzie said similar things
• 1:15:23
  in the news stories around this, like this is important, we should have
• 1:15:25
  had that meeting. All of those things, like you can't undo the decision
• 1:15:29
  of the meeting but like every it was unanimously accepted and it was put in
• 1:15:32
  place because again, like they all run, the risks going forward is if
• 1:15:36
  they if it happens again, odds are some counselor when that meeting happens is
• 1:15:41
  going to raise their hands saying should we be in this meeting? And like
• 1:15:45
  whether or not you should be or not, I don't know, but like
• 1:15:47
  to connect this to a housing story, you know, the roseland whole thing
• 1:15:51
  started it with an in camera meeting that counselor Francis said we should we even
• 1:15:56
  be in this, we should have a public meeting on this argue. He
• 1:16:00
  knew this was coming, I don't know, and he was trying to get
• 1:16:01
  ahead of it and try and show like, hey, I'm trying to you
• 1:16:03
  know, be more transparent and have fewer closed door meetings. Or maybe he's
• 1:16:08
  just that's what he's trying to do. But like we all know, the
• 1:16:11
  dru friend thing is just pantomime, so that we sure, but also and
• 1:16:15
  so I just want to make one before I don't. Yeah, so look,
• 1:16:17
  let's go back to when our friend counselor Reno made some stupid common about
• 1:16:25
  people getting murdered in alleys. The outrage was it was raped. It raped
• 1:16:30
  in alleys, the public flogging he got by the mayor, by every other
• 1:16:34
  counselor basically shitting on him and making him feel like he's a lunatic. And
• 1:16:40
  he actually had to There were consequences to this for something as stupid as not
• 1:16:45
  wording something right, compared to a procedure, breaking a procedure different by the
• 1:16:49
  problem. The difference is the council controlled that process, right, council controlled
• 1:16:54
  that process, and so it was entirely political. And and you had you
• 1:16:59
  had a political like you had, you literally had that. That hearing was
• 1:17:02
  political theater on both sides, right, And I like I could control this
• 1:17:08
  process though too, I think there's they could go and impose their own penalty
• 1:17:12
  on Drew. Right. So here's what I think. That's a political decision,
• 1:17:15
  of which you know, there's no there's no six votes around the council
• 1:17:18
  table that's going to impose that decision. But not only not only that,
• 1:17:21
  the reason the reason that this the damage here is limited to to what it
• 1:17:28
  was limited to, which is, like you know, there's there's some legitimacy
• 1:17:30
  questions, and there's there's some procedural change is that the salience of the underlying
• 1:17:35
  issue is very low. Nobody cares about the governance of b I as no
• 1:17:41
  like nobody cares. So if this was I understand, But I'm saying if
• 1:17:47
  the underlying issue had salience to people, this would be this would be handled
• 1:17:53
  very different. And the Roseland example is a good example of how that,
• 1:17:58
  like housing matters to people on both both sides, you know, and there's
• 1:18:00
  a lot of passion and there's a lot of inflammation around that. A conversation
• 1:18:04
  around the appropriateness of an open or closed meeting around that issue is like a
• 1:18:11
  lot more dangerous. And that's also how I think this ruling could come into
• 1:18:15
  play is in the future, if there are questions or shenanigans around a meeting,
• 1:18:19
  now you you're the forces of opposition. Now have an additional tool to
• 1:18:24
  deploy, like I don't want to I don't want to be a jerk.
• 1:18:30
  Here always a good sign when I start a sentence like that, But I
• 1:18:33
  think that, well, I think there's a I don't want to be a
• 1:18:38
  jerk. Here'll be a jerk over there and over there and over there.
• 1:18:43
  No problem. I think that there is actually like a danger in the level
• 1:18:48
  of political frustration that exists in Windsor and that is like, look, this
• 1:18:54
  is a win. This is a win for progressive forces. This is a
• 1:18:57
  win for people who want more accountability. This is a win from a Linda
• 1:19:00
  mon Row, right, this is a win. And like, what what
• 1:19:04
  I hear from half the panel is but they didn't pull their toenails out.
• 1:19:11
  This didn't do anything. This was nothing. This was garbage. Look the
• 1:19:15
  neil moved, the needle moved. Take the win. You're not You're not
• 1:19:19
  going to overturn twenty five years of inertia in one in one event. It's
• 1:19:25
  not a w. This is it's a VF best Hey, yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:28
  it's a close tie because you know, you know what, guys are
• 1:19:30
  killing me, you know. But I'm the cynical one. I've been away,
• 1:19:34
  I'm in a good mood. So look, let's look at this big
• 1:19:38
  picture. People hate politicians because they think they're all corrupt and it's all bullshit,
• 1:19:43
  and when they get caught doing something, nothing happens to them. Yep,
• 1:19:45
  Like John said, if we got caught doing something quote unquote against rules
• 1:19:48
  on our jobs, if we're employed by somebody there would be a penalty either
• 1:19:53
  getting fired, demoted, whatever the case is. So people watching this outside
• 1:19:58
  of us political people will love talk about this because it's entertainment. The regular
• 1:20:01
  person said at all, here's this on the news goes it's politicians, this's
• 1:20:05
  gonna happen. But it's all bullshit. And that's where the global cynical cynicism
• 1:20:11
  comes in. And nobody gives a shit anymore because they can get away with
• 1:20:14
  whatever they want because on the big picture of things, they're investigating themselves.
• 1:20:19
  It's just another political place, investigating this political place at great personal risk.
• 1:20:25
  I'm going to make an analogy here in the workplace, what'd you do,
• 1:20:30
  Doug. In the workplace, there are often issues that arise between people of
• 1:20:34
  harassment, of bullying, of like I don't like this person, I don't
• 1:20:39
  like that person, and it often takes a long time before those matters come
• 1:20:45
  to a some kind of formal process, and I think people are a lot
• 1:20:50
  of times disappointed with the outcome of a formal process. I was being bullied
• 1:20:55
  at work, and all that happened was that that person ended up on the
• 1:20:58
  opposite shift right right, when when what should have happened is that they should
• 1:21:01
  have been buried in a hole up to the head and so that I could
• 1:21:04
  urinate on them or whatever whatever. Right, like, your level of outrage
• 1:21:09
  doesn't doesn't determine the parameters of an appropriate consequence. So when you take that
• 1:21:15
  as the example, you own a business, Doug, Yeah, you have
• 1:21:17
  procedures set in place for whatever you do here, because you're giving me a
• 1:21:21
  lot of credit pleasure. Let's just say you're the overlord here and you run
• 1:21:25
  everything. If three of your employees made a decision that when counter to your
• 1:21:30
  procedures that cost you money, what would happen to them? Would they have
• 1:21:35
  to Well? But then this is where I'm going, Don, and is
• 1:21:40
  depends on how cut and dry it is. You know, I'm sure this
• 1:21:43
  was very I'm sure you've dealt with interpersonal issues in the workplace, and I've
• 1:21:45
  dealt with interpersonal issues as a leader and as a as an individual contributor,
• 1:21:49
  and it's just not so cut and dry, and it's not so simple.
• 1:21:53
  And when you're asked to come in and it's actually a great a great example
• 1:21:57
  when you're asked to come in and resolve a situ and you come into that
• 1:22:00
  room and you see two people who are absolutely heated, absolutely at Loggerheads.
• 1:22:05
  There's a huge amount of history here. What I actually have to do is
• 1:22:11
  deal with this one singular issue, this one thing, and not get myself
• 1:22:15
  concerned with the history. And you know, what happened in the parking lot
• 1:22:18
  last year, or what happened at the Christmas party when that when person X
• 1:22:23
  got drunk, Like I actually all that history has to be irrelevant because I
• 1:22:27
  have to deal fairly with this one issue. And I think that that's like,
• 1:22:31
  that's a good analogy for what's happening here. We have a strong perception
• 1:22:38
  that there is a lot of procedural shenanigan, an unacceptable level of procedural shenanigans
• 1:22:43
  that frustrate us at the City of Windsor. And now this one instance where
• 1:22:46
  it's been proven has to is like very load bearing because it has to bear
• 1:22:51
  the weight of all of those like frustrations. And I think to build off
• 1:22:58
  of that, and going to your broader point, we're so in the weeds
• 1:23:01
  of what's happening sure in data, So when that one person who was driving
• 1:23:05
  and heard the one story on AM eight hundred about oh, the city violated
• 1:23:10
  their thing, it's like that's an in the ear out the ear sort of
• 1:23:13
  comment. Generally, it's like, but isn't that the problem? Well maybe,
• 1:23:16
  but like because I think, but I think the broader, the broader
• 1:23:20
  issue is is that, you know, if you want better civic engagement,
• 1:23:26
  you know, the way to do it is to ensure that these things get
• 1:23:30
  caught when they happen, and then that there's a consequence of that so that
• 1:23:34
  in the future there's less of that and there's a pathway through which others can
• 1:23:39
  you know, rectify any of those future challenges. We're not you know,
• 1:23:44
  suddenly people are not suddenly getting dissatisfied with local municipal governance because of this one
• 1:23:48
  news story. There. There is a long history of whatever dissatisfaction there is
• 1:23:54
  across multiple sides in this community. And so I think, you know,
• 1:23:57
  I want to thank well for doing this first of all, because this is,
• 1:24:02
  in my opinion, a win for the community because like that agenda is
• 1:24:05
  now on the website for everyone to see, and you know, yeah,
• 1:24:11
  you know, you may be interested in nebulous property sale number thirty four that's
• 1:24:15
  happening next month because you know, and you can keep track of that more
• 1:24:17
  closely now because there's now an agenda item there and so I think there is
• 1:24:23
  you know, this is a win and this is you know, a step
• 1:24:27
  which again and I recognize John's point, like, yeah, we don't have
• 1:24:30
  an investigative media environment anymore, but this is where community and those who are
• 1:24:35
  engaged then have to step up. Right, So if you see shenanigans,
• 1:24:40
  i'd encourage you to file a foya, encourage you to file a complaint.
• 1:24:44
  Yes, it sucks that the average citizen has to do it, but then
• 1:24:46
  that's how that's how you're going to build stuff going forward, because we can't
• 1:24:50
  rely on the media to do that anymore. Well, look, none of
• 1:24:54
  us are disagreeing that this was a bad outcome. It was we got something
• 1:24:58
  solved. You're right, I think from the public perception and again, people
• 1:25:02
  who don't live in the weeds like we do, this is just another story
• 1:25:05
  of politicians doing something. Technically, they broke a rule. And it's not
• 1:25:12
  just municipal politicians, it's provincial. I mean, we look at the green
• 1:25:15
  belt situation, the Trudeau it's every week they got a new thing, and
• 1:25:18
  people keep hearing this over and over again, and then it comes down to
• 1:25:21
  the local level of the municipality, and you would like to think, maybe
• 1:25:27
  naively, that on a local level, things would be a little more transparent,
• 1:25:30
  it would be a little more honest because it's a smaller group of people
• 1:25:34
  and they actually live in the community. And then they hear something like this
• 1:25:38
  and the consequences, well, make sure you put a public notice after that,
• 1:25:42
  like how much did this investigation cost? Tens of thousands of dollars of
• 1:25:45
  somebody's time to do this, and at the end of the day, people's
• 1:25:47
  listened to this ago. It's just another instance of politicians get away with whatever
• 1:25:51
  they want because nothing's going to happen to them. But if Joe blow working
• 1:25:56
  at Chris or blows off a shift or something, he's getting in a lot
• 1:25:59
  of trouble, which I think it just like I said, I don't think
• 1:26:01
  this is a bad outcome. I just think the consequence part is something that
• 1:26:06
  over and over and over again for politicians doesn't apply because they basically they do
• 1:26:13
  investigate themselves. It's like the police investigating themselves. Yes, we broke the
• 1:26:16
  rules. It's a bad outcome, you know, but you know so bad,
• 1:26:19
  so be it. We will be better next time, Well it,
• 1:26:21
  we'll be better next time. There's that never happens. I'll support you to
• 1:26:26
  this to this extent, I think that it's fair to be I think it's
• 1:26:30
  fair to be cynical about the amount like how interested politicians are in holding themselves
• 1:26:36
  accountable. I think that's fair, and I think that's completely understandable. In
• 1:26:41
  this case. I think the system did appropriately hold folks accountable. And it's
• 1:26:48
  not you know, it's not the public flogging that you wanted done. But
• 1:26:53
  maybe next time, well it should be more than make sure you put a
• 1:26:56
  notice on a website that's are we swearing? That's fucking ridiculous, don't forget
• 1:27:00
  to leave and note. Yeah, well exactly, how's that tea? Yeah,
• 1:27:03
  it's good, calm third bottomless tea in the name of the thing?
• 1:27:10
  Can you taste the cardam off? I can? Why what did you actually
• 1:27:13
  put in? I didn't realize how much it sounded suspicious? Very much like
• 1:27:18
  you taste the special ingredient. It tastes a little stringent. Oh so it's
• 1:27:25
  a diazepam. Are you sail with the white lotus flower? Is there a
• 1:27:30
  possibility that that we can from somehow from Doug spike John's drink. We can
• 1:27:35
  segue to the next time. Yeah, it might have some slurs in that
• 1:27:39
  segway. Let's we're gonna travel down the Ero towards the Compsy right now,
• 1:27:45
  where we have found out that the federal government and the town to Compsy have
• 1:27:47
  an agreement under the Housing Accelerator Fund to fast track those one hundred and thirty
• 1:27:51
  seven housing units over three years, potentially spurring fifty eight hundred homes over a
• 1:27:56
  decade. And they're supposed to be getting four point four million dollars to support
• 1:28:00
  housing construction into CUMCI. But throwing a wrench in all of this is the
• 1:28:04
  Deputy Mayor Joe Bichetti, who is advocating for a special public meeting next in
• 1:28:12
  May excuse me to discuss and receive feedback on the as of right for unit
• 1:28:17
  housing issue, taking umbrage with the fact that it was all approved without these
• 1:28:25
  public meetings that statutorily, I think we just had this CONVERSA city has to
• 1:28:29
  go through, the town has to go through, wanted to get to this
• 1:28:31
  topic, they should just do it in camera and then when they get in
• 1:28:34
  trouble it doesn't have to put someone on Well, we would never have found
• 1:28:36
  out about it. Bichetti has deferred a notice of motion until the next council
• 1:28:42
  meeting due to a colleague's absence at the last council meeting, which was last
• 1:28:46
  Tuesday, and again he's aiming to ensure public input on the housing changes.
• 1:28:54
  I love the deferral. It's nice so much on this one, just being
• 1:28:58
  like, well, I don't have the votes today. I mean, well,
• 1:29:01
  that's what you do. Yeah, it's the only way to win losing.
• 1:29:10
  Like, yeah, of course you differ. So let me let me
• 1:29:13
  as Frazer this because I'm sure he knows this a night pron We should know
• 1:29:15
  this because I'm in the industry. So all this money that's getting thrown around
• 1:29:17
  from the FEDS UH to accelerate development housing, what is that money? Actually
• 1:29:23
  they're not using it to actually build outs. Is just infrastructure money they can
• 1:29:26
  use it for. Yeah, so there's a range of things they can put
• 1:29:28
  it towards, like targeted affordable housing or whatever, but generally it's being put
• 1:29:32
  towards things like staffing up planning departments. New technology. So if you wanted
• 1:29:38
  to go from paper permits to E permitting, for example, to speed up
• 1:29:42
  approval processes be used for instructure infrastructure of environmental assessment reports like you know you
• 1:29:48
  can accelerate, you know you're supposed to do your EA in three years this
• 1:29:51
  land, let's do it now and pay a consultant now. So I would
• 1:29:56
  suspect only a small in particularly into company's case, getting only four point one
• 1:30:00
  for a million dollars, like that's not actually going to go to building stuff.
• 1:30:02
  But they're a small town. It's going to go hire like a planner
• 1:30:04
  for three years, who's going to do the study on this area that's going
• 1:30:09
  to unlock this land for a new subdivision. And that's how they're going to
• 1:30:12
  get to their for three years of four million bucks a pretty good salary.
• 1:30:15
  So well, I imagine there's other stuff too, But you know, no,
• 1:30:18
  I was just curious because people keep hearing all those monies being thrown around,
• 1:30:23
  but they're not actually using it to quote unquote build department buildings. Yeah,
• 1:30:27
  generally it's going you know, again with some exception, targeted affordable units
• 1:30:30
  or whatever like it's going to Like in London, for example, they used
• 1:30:34
  it to create an incentive for owners of parking lots to turn their parking lots
• 1:30:38
  into concoct towers or I guess you use it to cover permit fees if you
• 1:30:41
  want to all the fees, ce ips, those sort of things. Okay,
• 1:30:45
  So not to rehab the last conversation, but maybe to connect the two
• 1:30:47
  discussions, to think about how you might make use of a ruling like the
• 1:30:54
  one that was made around city council and windsor imagine if if Deputy Mayor Joe
• 1:31:01
  Bickhetti had that in his back pocket right now, if there had previously been
• 1:31:04
  a ruling that that Tacomcy Council had not followed its own procedural rules, like,
• 1:31:11
  he would have a much stronger case. And and again, this is
• 1:31:15
  an issue that that is highly interesting to virtually everyone in the community. So
• 1:31:20
  it's it's going to get some attention, and there's there's you know this this
• 1:31:25
  one I think is potentially politically pretty hot. We talked about this, guys,
• 1:31:30
  like we talked about this when to Comesy got this funding, and it
• 1:31:34
  was so much was made of it that, uh, it sure seemed like
• 1:31:39
  there was something more to it than to come see getting housing accelerator funds on
• 1:31:45
  the merits and to come see like being so publicly to come see mayor.
• 1:31:50
  Yeah, thank you Gary mcnamuir being so enthusiastic about four pluses and six plexes
• 1:31:56
  as of right and so forth. It certainly seems like there may have been
• 1:32:02
  some back room political conversations happening around this, and we've actually seen some allegations
• 1:32:12
  to that extent on social media. John, I think it was you yesterday
• 1:32:16
  brought to our attention a tweet from helped me out the gentleman, the local
• 1:32:23
  gentleman who is so involved in conservative politics, and Nick, thank you.
• 1:32:30
  How can we forget Nick that that Nick Cuvalis had a tweet yesterday that was
• 1:32:38
  perhaps implying that there is something improper happening here, or that there is at
• 1:32:43
  least that there are conversations happening between the municipal council and the federal government.
• 1:32:47
  It's quite interesting. Yeah, it was. And while I try to pull
• 1:32:50
  it up here and find it, there's four under tweets calling people listen,
• 1:32:58
  here are you Cox? Back to you? I do sweet way too much.
• 1:33:03
  This is Oh, it's your tweets. It's your tweets calling people.
• 1:33:09
  Oh no, that was that was my burner account. I don't know.
• 1:33:14
  I think I think while we're waiting here. Let me I will just quickly
• 1:33:18
  note that I have heard as well from a member of to come seek Council.
• 1:33:27
  I can say that without who is who is one of five people I
• 1:33:30
  know, And you're right, I did hear that as well. The vote
• 1:33:39
  was made three weeks prior to when the announcement came, and that council was
• 1:33:45
  themselves embargoed from speaking about it publicly. Meanwhile, the MP was speaking very
• 1:33:54
  publicly about it and doing the from a council member, yes, who was
• 1:34:00
  also very upset about their being muzzled. Meanwhile, the MP was out doing
• 1:34:05
  sales for it. So five minutes of checking Gary McNamara and Eric's Twitter to
• 1:34:11
  see when they're having coffee and doing the dates and figuring this out wouldn't be
• 1:34:14
  very hard for an investigative journalist yourself. Again, like, I think,
• 1:34:18
  let's zoom out a little bit, because I think this is getting tied into
• 1:34:21
  we're in a permanent election cycle for the next eighteen fifteen months or whatever,
• 1:34:26
  and you know, and nobody wants four plexes and there again. Yeah,
• 1:34:30
  and like the flip that the Ford government made this week around you know,
• 1:34:33
  four plexes as of right, is not going to happen. From a provincial
• 1:34:36
  level. You had Sean Frazier attacking the Ford government. Yeah, you had,
• 1:34:41
  you had you know mpku's Marritcheck using potty language on Twitter to describe Pierre
• 1:34:45
  Polyiev and like Andrew Dowie responding to him about that, like, I think,
• 1:34:50
  like, this is just this is just where we're going to be for
• 1:34:55
  the next fifteen years. It's like until the federal election happens. And you
• 1:35:00
  know, I think we've all seen the polls of where it's likely headed,
• 1:35:02
  barring some monumental shift in the Canadian political landscape. You know, this is
• 1:35:10
  just sort of where we're at. And I think, like, from the
• 1:35:14
  liberal perspective, you're trying to lock in as many wins that are hard to
• 1:35:16
  unlock before that election comes, because you know, obviously Prime Minister Pauliev probably
• 1:35:25
  has a very different agenda and priorities than what your government is, and so
• 1:35:29
  he's probably going to try and unwind some things that you've put in place.
• 1:35:31
  And I think, you know, it's just gonna be messy, and it's
• 1:35:35
  just gonna be annoying for the next eighteen months or whatever it is. And
• 1:35:39
  I think like whether there. I don't know if there was some agreement here
• 1:35:43
  or what that is. I do think from my reading of the housing accelerator
• 1:35:46
  rules or what has been sort of reported around to Compsy is like to Compsy
• 1:35:51
  isn't doing by right everywhere? Is one of the things that I was sort
• 1:35:55
  of like, like, the language is a little different than what they were
• 1:35:58
  saying about windsor Right, And so maybe I'm wrong on that, but like
• 1:36:02
  I remember hearing some new stories I'm reading Mary Mary McNamara's sort of positioning of
• 1:36:08
  it is like it's they're gonna still have control over by right through other means.
• 1:36:13
  So even though they may like put by right, but like, oh,
• 1:36:15
  it's not actually gonna be in like Saint Clair Beach because like the lot
• 1:36:18
  set backs, they're going to change to be an extra you know, ten
• 1:36:20
  feet walk to be by my house. But so like you know, the
• 1:36:26
  language and the nuances of that have have changed, I think, And that's
• 1:36:30
  that's maybe what's partially happening here as well in the irony and the irony of
• 1:36:34
  TECUMSI so my comment when this all happened and Windsor was nobody's gonna tear down
• 1:36:40
  a house in South windsor that they paid six hundred thousand dollars for to build
• 1:36:43
  a four plex next to the Mayor's house to comp sye prices even higher.
• 1:36:46
  No one's tearing down a place on you know, Old Tacumpsy that's on an
• 1:36:50
  eighty foot lot to put a six plex in, because the math doesn't make
• 1:36:55
  any sense. And if you are, let's just say that is your grand
• 1:36:58
  vision, you're obviously looking to go to windfall of you know, rental.
• 1:37:01
  It's people, they will burn your house down. But but my point being
• 1:37:04
  is if you're if you are even thinking of this, you would have to
• 1:37:09
  destroy the house, which is what you would presumably be borrowing against to be
• 1:37:15
  able to afard building. The new four plex developers have a whole different land
• 1:37:20
  of baking. Well, if you're looking at development, and I'm looking at
• 1:37:23
  like an individual homeowner, for example, well they would have the same development
• 1:37:27
  banking rules are very different than let us peasants have to deal with. Sean
• 1:37:31
  Frasier, our Minister of Housing, put up three pictures the other day.
• 1:37:36
  I guess it was just two days ago. One is a what looks to
• 1:37:40
  be a nineteen forties four plex, two story, two units on each side.
• 1:37:45
  The doors right in the middle looks really lovely. One of them looks
• 1:37:47
  to be and then the next two look to be new purpose built four plexes.
• 1:37:51
  So they've got, you know, this, this new style of architecture
• 1:37:54
  that don could explain lots of vinyl siding and fake brick looking work stucco John's
• 1:38:00
  called stucco. No, this is like vinyl siding. It looks well underneath
• 1:38:03
  it. The point is, our minister said, warning the following images of
• 1:38:10
  four plexes may frighten some politicians. They want to make sure these family homes
• 1:38:14
  remain illegal to build. Maybe my elder millennial is showing, but these homes
• 1:38:19
  and great locations look like good options to me. Well, they would be
• 1:38:24
  rentals, not technically family Homesquing them are as much fighting words as we can
• 1:38:29
  expect from this anyway, liberals that we still do have in power right now.
• 1:38:33
  This is what Nick Cavalis was referring to. And so again the Minister
• 1:38:39
  said, these images may frighten some politician, but you know, you know
• 1:38:42
  it gets lost in this conversation. Let's just say, let's for whatever happens,
• 1:38:45
  you can build a four pus or six pucks anywhere. Any municipality is
• 1:38:49
  still going to be able to regulate what it looks like. You can still
• 1:38:54
  do setbacks. You can still say to ask to have certain kind of fuss
• 1:38:56
  ouds. It has to whatever the case may be. Like, you can't
• 1:38:59
  just go oh like. Walkerville is a perfect example, and as that heritage
• 1:39:02
  look to it. If you go in there and try and build a settlement's
• 1:39:04
  or ranch, the city's probably gonna say no, and again the residents will
• 1:39:09
  burn your house. You can build a four plex, but you have to
• 1:39:11
  have solid gold Dornoch. Sure, no, it's exactly financially priced four plexes.
• 1:39:15
  You're probably not well. Those kind of sided type four plexes are going
• 1:39:20
  to be the kind you see on Howard up by t comps a year in
• 1:39:24
  the West End are the case oh past Silver City. Sure you're not going
• 1:39:27
  to build those in a high ectatic vote, high end neighborhood. So Cavalis
• 1:39:30
  responds these types of four plexes paraphrasing frightened counselors in the town of Takumsi,
• 1:39:36
  And they said, no, you announce the money anyways, because your local
• 1:39:42
  Liberal MP, Eric Kunzmerchrik, is losing badly you are lying when you say
• 1:39:47
  the housing Accelerator fund is for only four units or more. Frasier, you're
• 1:39:55
  a liar. This louder I thought he's telling it you too. How did
• 1:40:00
  he get dragged Well, I just wanted to bring you up for thank thanks
• 1:40:03
  for starting in that context. And I think that that helps to reinforce Frazier's
• 1:40:09
  macro point is that by the end of twenty twenty six, we are all
• 1:40:13
  going to die of exhaustion. This is going to get horrible. If you
• 1:40:15
  remember when it looked like the provincial Liberals were on the way out and then
• 1:40:20
  it actually took four more years for the Liberals to be on the way out,
• 1:40:26
  and the amount of silly games and shenanigans and accusations and people's reputations being
• 1:40:33
  ruined that we had in those four years is a preview of what the next
• 1:40:38
  year and a half it's going to look like. And you follow up that
• 1:40:40
  tweet with the mayor tweeting back at Jean Fraser at the same you know,
• 1:40:45
  it's like this is where it's going, right, and so like, I
• 1:40:47
  don't know the ins and outs. I hope to Compsy does have a nice
• 1:40:49
  community meeting and they you know, had that conversation. They absolutely should,
• 1:40:55
  and that'll be fun to sort of all be on, but I might go
• 1:40:58
  and watch. But like know, I think, like this is just going
• 1:41:01
  to be how things are for them every every every time. Now any municipality
• 1:41:06
  changes, any planning rule, it is now going to be the impetus for
• 1:41:13
  you know, you're dragging your mp You're dragging in your MPP going forward,
• 1:41:17
  you know, for the next two years, you know, And you're right,
• 1:41:19
  it's like the point of impact right now is housing and rules around housing
• 1:41:26
  and who's going to win and who's going to lose, and that's going to
• 1:41:30
  get decided now. So it's super salient for absolutely everybody. And that's that's
• 1:41:38
  concerning to me because I do build housing in that environment right well exactly I
• 1:41:45
  don't remember who said it, but someone said something a few years ago that
• 1:41:47
  really like stuck with me and kind of haunts me. And that's if you
• 1:41:50
  want to get anything done, if your goal is to get something done and
• 1:41:55
  move the needle on an issue, you look for the biggest issue that nobody's
• 1:41:59
  talking about and you go work on that. Because whatever issue people are talking
• 1:42:02
  about and people are focused on is going to be so crowded with people trying
• 1:42:06
  to make a buck, people trying to screw somebody else, people trying to
• 1:42:12
  get over and build a political reputation on it, that it's just going to
• 1:42:15
  be so hard to maneuver and do anything real and valuable. And I think
• 1:42:20
  that's unfortunately, probably where people who have been spending decades toiling trying to improve
• 1:42:26
  the housing landscape in Canada are probably like, what the hell, look at
• 1:42:29
  this circus. We can't get anything done right now. Actually, on that
• 1:42:32
  point, I think what flies under the radar. I don't know if people
• 1:42:35
  agree with me, you don't have to agree with me. But this whole
• 1:42:38
  situation was caused by the very flawed immigration policy of the federal government. It's
• 1:42:43
  a numbers game, so let's all fight about housing and four plexes instead of
• 1:42:47
  dealing with the immigration issue, which is the core problem. Ironically, that
• 1:42:51
  actually did come up this week, the immigration numbers where they are going to
• 1:42:56
  actually quite constrain those now, which should be getting more public because that is
• 1:43:00
  at the core of the pot You no, don I. I've heard you
• 1:43:02
  say this before, and I think it's an absolutely fair point. But I
• 1:43:04
  also think that you have to think about the context of the immigration issue in
• 1:43:10
  Canada and how how like socially fraud it is. And it's not just like
• 1:43:14
  it's it's not just an economic thing, it's not just a political thing.
• 1:43:18
  It's also like a national identity thing, like Canada is the country that welcomes
• 1:43:23
  immigrants. Right There's there's I think it's been very difficult. It's been very
• 1:43:29
  difficult to build a consensus around. We actually need to make some adjustments downward
• 1:43:35
  on immigration, in part because the first people into the conversation are so odious
• 1:43:42
  and disgusting that nobody wants to be the second person into that conversation. So
• 1:43:46
  I actually think that, But there's there is substantive movement being made because there
• 1:43:51
  is significant pressure, I think, and like a recognition that that if nothing
• 1:43:58
  else, like the unrestrict did unrestricted or relatively unrestricted like practically unrestricted intake of
• 1:44:08
  international students and perhaps temporary foreign workers is more than the country can bear right
• 1:44:14
  now. And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with immigration. I'm
• 1:44:16
  one hundred percent prommemoration, especially for people coming from countries where it's a blood
• 1:44:20
  Oh yes, you're one of the second people in no Ques. But I
• 1:44:24
  think the flawed part, when I say it's flawed, I don't think having
• 1:44:28
  immigrants come to the country is flawed. The flawed part is if you're going
• 1:44:30
  to have a million people come to the country and we're only building three hundred
• 1:44:34
  thousand housing units a year, it's a math problem. So you do one
• 1:44:39
  under the other you build more housing, which obviously we're never gonna do because
• 1:44:44
  we can't even talk about four plexes, or you have to then constrain those
• 1:44:46
  numbers, which seems to be what the government is now planning is, let's
• 1:44:49
  just constrain the number of I guess temporary workers and students is kind of where
• 1:44:55
  they're headed. Well, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't
• 1:44:58
  scenario a little bit, because like, given our demographics, you need immigration
• 1:45:01
  in order to prop up the video robots are going, right if they don't
• 1:45:06
  kill you first, right, Like that's a so I think and like I
• 1:45:10
  think this is there's some big societal things that we have to unpack in this
• 1:45:15
  space, like the intersection between this housing, the aging labor force. What
• 1:45:19
  kind of economy do we want in Canada? Who's going to work and who's
• 1:45:23
  not going to work in our in our country, Like there's a lot of
• 1:45:26
  big stuff that has to be unpacked here and it's all sort of now fallen
• 1:45:29
  into this black pit of four plexes are not four plexes. That's so that's
• 1:45:33
  what, that's what it's all boiled down. And to your point, because
• 1:45:36
  it's the easiest one, it's the easiest one, and it's the one that
• 1:45:40
  people are maddest about. So this is the debate we have. And like
• 1:45:43
  to your earlier point, like you know, there's a legitimate conversation to have
• 1:45:46
  about like temporary foreum workers and what it's doing to for example, wages in
• 1:45:50
  Windsor Essex County, like and housing prices. But like you know, there
• 1:45:56
  are legitimate second tier and second order impacts of some of these decisions that like
• 1:46:01
  you know, who is getting who gets hired for what job in our community
• 1:46:06
  is often driven by their immigration status and how desperate they are and their willingness
• 1:46:11
  to take a certain wage over what you know, someone who's born in Canada
• 1:46:15
  would expect for that sort of job. And so there's a lot of like
• 1:46:19
  messy secondier impacts that we don't want to talk about. And so you know,
• 1:46:24
  to Doug's earlier point about like go to a space where no one's looking
• 1:46:28
  like there's actually a very good conversation to have around like what does the future
• 1:46:32
  of work look like in Windsor Essex, particularly for you know, who is
• 1:46:36
  going to work on the line at an auto plant in twenty years, because
• 1:46:42
  like what does that job look like and how does that job actually function?
• 1:46:46
  And at what rate of pay does that job pay? Well, look at
• 1:46:49
  what they just did with temporary foreign workers. They went and they reduced the
• 1:46:54
  amount allowed in Canada from what's six point five percent down to five percent.
• 1:46:59
  They exempted Winsor Essex agricultural workers from that because we rely on it, because
• 1:47:04
  that's would just go to But that just goes to show then that the amount
• 1:47:10
  of temporary form workers that we had in that weren't in the agricultural sector was
• 1:47:14
  obviously too much. Because they're going and saying these drives can be filled by
• 1:47:17
  Canadians. We can reduce this by a point and a half. While you
• 1:47:20
  can make the argument, you know, if picking tomatoes was a forty dollars
• 1:47:26
  an hour job like it becas, it'd be filled by a Canadian, of
• 1:47:29
  course, but it's twelve dollars in the morn. Well you got to build
• 1:47:33
  those cigarette boats, don't buy themselves. Crazure. But like but like you
• 1:47:39
  can make the argument, right, Like there's certainly an ye anyway, So
• 1:47:46
  like I think, you know, yeah, there's a broad conversation there that
• 1:47:50
  no one's having. And like I think I'd pick tomatoes for forty mins.
• 1:47:54
  Well, you know, and to go to my industry. The housing,
• 1:47:56
  like the housing situation we have and Windsor, I am going to put it
• 1:48:00
  almost squarely on the students coming here and not the post secondary education places facilities
• 1:48:06
  not providing housing for them, throwing them on the open market and eating up
• 1:48:11
  with investors all the entry level homes that you know, first time home buyers
• 1:48:15
  would traditionally buy. Those prices skyrocketed because now the math equations from an investment
• 1:48:19
  property worked. So that has locally, that is the issue for housing.
• 1:48:26
  Well percent, Windsor has always been an incredibly welcoming city, whether it be
• 1:48:30
  by our choice or by you know, imposing on us. You're gonna be
• 1:48:33
  taking more people and deal with it. I think back to when we had
• 1:48:40
  a big influx, well, I mean we had a big influx of Ukrainians
• 1:48:42
  who just came here. We had a big influx of Syrians in two thousand
• 1:48:45
  and eight, two thousand and nine, whenever I believe that was and we
• 1:48:49
  can go back through to the early nineties, late eighties with when Filipinos came
• 1:48:56
  over, Vietnamese came over. We had huge numbers, but never once was
• 1:49:00
  it an influx that caused the system to break. It was always something that
• 1:49:06
  those are those are those are you know, humanitarian response, and I recognize
• 1:49:13
  that. But the point is is that we have dealt with large population inflows
• 1:49:16
  before, but it was never something that crippled the city in a way that
• 1:49:20
  we are seeing. It did fustain it for years, and it was scaled
• 1:49:26
  upon. No, there wasn't an endless pipeline of Syrian refugees coming year after
• 1:49:30
  years. This is true, and this is my point though. It goes
• 1:49:32
  to something that you've brought up in past episodes, Doug, which is we're
• 1:49:36
  at risk of losing the consensus on immigration, on refugee intake, on being
• 1:49:43
  a welcoming place because as much as we heard, you know, in the
• 1:49:46
  US, the South part, it took our jobs argument, you're taking people's
• 1:49:51
  homes, you have people who's I have been affected in a generational term,
• 1:49:58
  who in two thousand I was in an eight weren't able to get a house
• 1:50:01
  and now they're still not able to get a house. And I understand the
• 1:50:04
  other procemeding peers. Years from eight to fifteen were much better than fifteen to
• 1:50:09
  today. Let's be honest, but we're at a very serious risk. So
• 1:50:14
  I want to talk about Max Bernier right now, and there's a segue well
• 1:50:19
  of all the places that we were gone before you. I just want to
• 1:50:23
  make one point. I don't sorry, I I know I do this way
• 1:50:26
  too much. You do. I don't should I only come once a month.
• 1:50:29
  I don't think most people in Canada at all care that we were bringing
• 1:50:33
  in Syrian refugees or Ukrainian refugees. Giving the situation, I think this one
• 1:50:38
  that's put on top of other failed policies. They're the easy people to blame.
• 1:50:43
  So I think that that what I well, for sure, I think
• 1:50:46
  you're right there. Don Why I wanted to bring up Max Bernier is that
• 1:50:53
  this is not pressure that has appeared overnight. This is pressure that's been building
• 1:50:58
  for years and years years, and I think the challenge is that we're seeing
• 1:51:04
  this burst of pressure and this burst of actual real world problems that are you
• 1:51:12
  know, you go back five years and you follow the pathway and you think,
• 1:51:15
  how could we not see this coming? How could we not know?
• 1:51:19
  But criticizing immigration in Canada was completely inadmissible five years ago, completely inadmissible.
• 1:51:28
  You were a fringe lunatic if you were questioning and challenging immigration and that consensus.
• 1:51:34
  Like, I think that that consensus is great. I think Canada being
• 1:51:38
  a welcoming country, recognizing that we are, recognizing that, you know,
• 1:51:44
  we're stronger when we're growing from international sources and so forth. That's all awesome.
• 1:51:48
  But sometimes I think we make policy way too in way too narrow interest
• 1:51:56
  and immigration policy and the policy, the policy of the federal government that has
• 1:52:01
  landed so many international students and so many temporary foreign workers on these shores is
• 1:52:08
  clearly not a pro worker. It's not a pro worker, it's not a
• 1:52:12
  pro labor policy. It is a pro business policy. This is a policy
• 1:52:15
  that is designed to lower wages. Right that all of those all of those
• 1:52:21
  arguments, you know, we're running out of workers, people don't want to
• 1:52:25
  work, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Like nobody wants to
• 1:52:29
  do these jobs. This is all the language that you use to say we
• 1:52:33
  want wages to be lower. As a business community. Cannadian politicians and governments
• 1:52:40
  at every level here the signals of the business community and the demands of the
• 1:52:45
  business comity community louder than they hear anything else. And that policy consensus,
• 1:52:53
  it's so smug and it's so self contained, and the idea that like what's
• 1:52:59
  good for lab Blaw is good for Canada and is good for every Canadian.
• 1:53:01
  And if you don't see that, if you don't see that what's good for
• 1:53:04
  the Rogers family is good for Canada inherently, then you're just a dumb little
• 1:53:11
  person who's only looking at their own narrow interests and you're just too stupid to
• 1:53:15
  understand the big picture, which is that we need ten thousand people competing for
• 1:53:19
  a job at Walmart to save the economy. This is why we're this is
• 1:53:27
  why we're in the situation that we're in. I think I just say I
• 1:53:30
  do appreciate you going after Ted Rogers, one of our three Telco's Rogers,
• 1:53:36
  specifically the belt sucks to buddy. Listen you're actually speaking. But if the
• 1:53:49
  boss looks at things, I'm sure if that is not the title, you
• 1:53:54
  know it's because John's a shill. Just make the title John's a shill.
• 1:53:58
  That's so much better that new buddy Johns moment. But you know, I
• 1:54:02
  to counter that point, I don't disagree with. I do agree at that
• 1:54:05
  point, but I also think that John's a ship. Look, Belle Cat,
• 1:54:11
  settle down over there. I also think not even full time, not
• 1:54:14
  in part time. We noticed you didn't get laid on work there, No,
• 1:54:21
  I I always joke. I agree. It looks like I survived the
• 1:54:27
  cuts by not being impluments. How I do it. I just don't show
• 1:54:31
  up for work. They won't even know you work there. I think.
• 1:54:33
  I think you're right on some level, Doug. But I also think the
• 1:54:35
  current federal government has based their whole persona off we are the great welcoming people
• 1:54:43
  and we're going to save all the poor people in the World's that's how you
• 1:54:46
  sell it, and that's how you sell it at laws. No, but
• 1:54:49
  there's a lot of politics for Trudeau because he wants to be seen as I
• 1:54:54
  am the great savior of the world. That's that's that's part of his brand.
• 1:54:57
  That's how the consensus has been maintained. But it's think Trudeau's doing this
• 1:55:00
  for his corporate buddies. At yes, I do. The Loblaws is built.
• 1:55:08
  They're they're building a all They're building a housing development down in Florida,
• 1:55:17
  gated community, and it's got like a massage, it's got dance, it's
• 1:55:23
  got restaurants. You know. I think it's just for like whom they lobby.
• 1:55:30
  I think like it's such a brilliant endeavor by the Westons, just like,
• 1:55:34
  let's go build a place that all of the you know, movers and
• 1:55:38
  shakers in Canada will come to for five months of the year and then you
• 1:55:42
  just show up every morning with like a basket of good This is the Canadian
• 1:55:45
  version of Epstein Island. You got to go get that good Loblaws massage.
• 1:55:49
  Write that down the Canadian version of Epstein Island. That is the episode title.
• 1:55:55
  We should also get ahead of this this massage. We should call our
• 1:55:58
  lawyers. That is going to be the episode title. Okay. I like
• 1:56:01
  the PC point idea though, if you're yeah, that's pretty good. How
• 1:56:04
  many you know, maybe the eight million PC points for a three hundred square
• 1:56:10
  foot three thousand square foot mansion. Jesus, I don't know why the LCBO
• 1:56:13
  hasn't imported something like this. That's and if I'm gone for five months a
• 1:56:15
  year, you know where I am. Okay, well, we're we killed
• 1:56:19
  the last segment, which means that we're going to be moving into for your
• 1:56:23
  consideration. I think I'm the only one who is bringing one for your consideration.
• 1:56:27
  Not much to say about it other than the title windsor police or aiming
• 1:56:30
  to launch a safe Internet exchange zone starting internet next year or next month.
• 1:56:35
  Excuse me. This would be a place that if you're selling something on Kijiji,
• 1:56:39
  your Facebook marketplace, it's a place that has video cameras and you can
• 1:56:45
  know that when you do get assaulted, there might be video footage of it
• 1:56:48
  later on, hopefully they capuh. Now, when your spouse makes you sell
• 1:56:54
  broken shoe laces for ten dollars, you're not taking your life quite as much
• 1:56:58
  year is as you were before. It sounds like it sounds like a story
• 1:57:01
  behind that. I just I love that it is the year twenty twenty four,
• 1:57:08
  of the year of our Lord and the Savior Jesus Christ. I think
• 1:57:12
  that's legally how you have to finish that sentence. Ah, God, it's
• 1:57:15
  not my sentence. That's the sentence that I've heard other people say. I'm
• 1:57:17
  pretty sure that's how you flow through it. Okays twenty twenty four, Windsor
• 1:57:25
  Police are aiming to launch the Safe Internet Exchange Zone next month in April.
• 1:57:30
  This does not feel like a two thousand and eight story, like fourteen years
• 1:57:34
  late to the party. Here, Windsor Police is are like, oh,
• 1:57:38
  hey, we should make it easy for people to do this, you know,
• 1:57:41
  incredibly, you know, potentially dangerous thing that we have seen instance of
• 1:57:45
  maybe and Windsor we've just gotten lucky for the past fourteen years of Kijiji.
• 1:57:49
  They're they're cracking down on fax machine scams. I heard this and I immediately
• 1:57:55
  thought, oh, so they're freeing up two of the parking spots outside of
• 1:57:59
  Windsor. Police had quarters downtown to which I read the story and no,
• 1:58:02
  it's not at always you're gonna have to drive out to the accident and Vehicle
• 1:58:08
  Collision station, Jefferson, I'm doing that. Go do this. So are
• 1:58:13
  you looking to sell something in Windsor, Doug, You're gonna have to cross
• 1:58:15
  Walker Road. Unfortunately, Well, your shoelaces are not disposed of, so
• 1:58:20
  simply it's all going in the landfill. Now, baby, you're not getting
• 1:58:25
  me east to Walker that easily. I mean all it takes is two parking
• 1:58:28
  spots out front of city, outside of Windsor police headquarters. And it's like
• 1:58:31
  so easy. But they always come downtown you' get stabbed. Yeah, you
• 1:58:34
  can just come do it here. Yeah, come just office. There's always
• 1:58:39
  there's always people looking. If you get assualted, we'll sit here laughing.
• 1:58:42
  So for your consideration, if you're selling stuff on the web, it might
• 1:58:45
  get safer, but you're gonna have to travel to Jefferson or come to a
• 1:58:48
  Latin university and we'll do a freelance. Actually, Ate Nate Bergatsie the comedian,
• 1:58:51
  does a great bit on this. He says, the best case scenario
• 1:58:57
  is we make five dollars selling something, or my whole family gets murdered.
• 1:59:01
  Right, it's you know the value proposition is there? Well, folks,
• 1:59:06
  it is Rose City Politics, March twenty fourth, I'm still grumpy and hungry
• 1:59:12
  right now. Fans. Regular panel included Doug Star Tory, Don Maryfield,
• 1:59:16
  Junior Fraser, Fathers myself John lid Key, head to patron dot com slash
• 1:59:21
  Rose City Politics, pick up a copy of biz X magazine and let us
• 1:59:27
  know what you think about the latest column that we have. And you can
• 1:59:30
  check us out at rcpwindsor dot c A. Or when Doug does the redirect
• 1:59:36
  that I've asked for for months, you can go to rostdypolitics dot ca,
• 1:59:41
  which is not accessible right now. He's a busyo, He's busy. That's
• 1:59:45
  fair Rosie Politics. That's I'm at the point where I add to verbally do
• 1:59:48
  it on the show, just adds another month later, Hey, I'm not
• 1:59:53
  going to that site. I use the log in on that big bill money
• 1:59:56
  over Rosary Politics broadcast live on tape thanks to kind support of Lina six two
• 2:00:00
  five. I'll think better communities and I'm just gonna publicly say I think that
• 2:00:04
  a good title is. It's not a public flogging, Dawn. But we'll
• 2:00:08
  see what it looks like when it's posted soon in next week. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
• 2:01:41
  S is baking as as the s