Latest / Friday I'm in Bed / It's Friday I'm Going No Contact

Transcript

It's Friday I'm Going No Contact · Friday I'm in Bed

0:00
Welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
0:02
Podcast for midlife women living their best life but in bed by
0:06
10. This week on Friday, I'm in bed.
0:14
We're talking about the Beckham fallout with everyone's been
0:16
dissecting all week. But instead of who said what and
0:19
who's to blame, we're going to ask the bigger question.
0:21
When it comes to difficult relationships, is it ever OK to
0:24
choose friends over family? And should you really have to
0:28
tolerate poor behaviour just because someone's related to
0:31
you? We're also looking at why, in
0:33
these situations, women so often seem to end up carrying the
0:36
blame. We're chatting about fashion
0:38
too. Specifically Lucy and Yak's
0:40
decision. Stop selling their largest and
0:42
smallest sizes. Is that exclusionary or simply a
0:45
business decision? And where does fairness sit when
0:48
it comes to sizing, cost and reality?
0:50
And finally, we're unpacking the declining population
0:53
conversation discussed recently on Stephen Bartlett's Diary of
0:56
Aceo podcast. In particular, men's growing
0:59
anxiety around the end of the family line will be very clear
1:03
on where we stand. The idea of society stepping in
1:06
to solve the issue starts to sound less like policy and more
1:08
like The Handmaid's Tale. So grab a cuppa and let's get
1:13
into it. Hi, Jim.
1:15
How's it going? Hey, Kate.
1:18
Yeah, Good, good. How's your week been?
1:20
It's. Been all right.
1:21
I've had two gigs that I've been to so that was good.
1:25
I went to one on Saturday night which was local and it was all
1:28
female led bands, which was amazing.
1:33
Like really, really good. So yeah, it's it's had a a busy
1:37
but good week. What about you?
1:39
Well, you went Biffy, Claro. As well.
1:41
Oh yeah. Well, you know, I went to Biffy
1:43
Claro. I go and see them as much as I
1:45
can. I'm not, I've never been a kind
1:49
of gigs person. I kind of, you know, every time
1:51
we do this, I think what the hell have I done?
1:53
Like I'm sure I've done loads. Like obviously none of it was
1:57
important. Today though, I'm going to go
1:59
and get my ear pierced. I.
2:02
Think that like midlife crisis? Yeah, I was just going to say I
2:06
think I might be having a midlife crisis, but I've
2:07
actually been looking at it for ages.
2:08
That little one that they call the the Dace.
2:11
So it's like on the top curvy bit of your ear.
2:13
And I think it looks really pretty when you have like a
2:15
little pretty ring that like sits just inside your ear.
2:18
So I I got a bit impulsive. Actually, it's not impulsive
2:22
because I've looked at it for ages.
2:23
But yeah, I've got myself a piercing appointment this
2:26
afternoon. So it's my first body piercing
2:28
since about 1998 I think. So I'm.
2:31
Quite pain averse as I get older.
2:34
Like I want more piercings but I'm like Ouch it hurts.
2:39
I took my daughter, actually, she had her, whatever you call
2:42
it, the top of her ear done last week.
2:44
And my son had a second one in his nose.
2:47
And every time we go I'm like, oh, I want more.
2:50
And I'm like, no, it hurts. It takes ages to heal.
2:54
And I'm just like a bit of a worse, but I don't know why
2:57
because, you know, I've had two children.
2:59
I can cope with pain. Yeah, well, I see I did look at
3:02
that, but I'm yeah, I'm not, I'm quite, I'm alright with pain.
3:05
I'm not too bad. So I'm I'm not that.
3:07
I'm not that worried about that. But the healing might be a bit
3:09
of a faff. And I'm also thinking, God, if
3:10
it takes ages, I just want to put like pretty jewelry in it.
3:13
Like now I don't want to have this stupid one with the with
3:15
with the ball on it. But that's just that's
3:17
impatient. And I have been a kid for ages.
3:20
So I'm quite I'm quite excited. Like it's going to be like, do
3:23
you think they're liking me? They might do, I think now I
3:26
think the thing. That, that surprised me once the
3:31
kids started getting more piercings and I was going to a
3:34
piercing shop for the first time is how you can have piercings
3:37
now with really cool studs, small studs, you know, like when
3:41
we were having them done back in the day, you had this massive
3:44
stud that you were stuck with for six weeks.
3:47
And actually like Kitty, my daughter had like this little
3:49
cute little gem and you know, you can hardly see it.
3:53
It was lovely. Whereas I we all had to have
3:55
those massive ones, didn't we? Yeah, see, I have my nose done
3:59
and I, they did it with a gun and I don't think you're
4:01
supposed to do that. And yeah.
4:04
And then I had like one of those big gold piercing studs that
4:08
stick out of your ear just like stuck out of my nose for weeks
4:10
until it started to heal. So.
4:12
But yeah, this is what my, yeah, I'm going through my second
4:14
teenage years, obviously, where I'm like, do you know what?
4:17
I'm going to get all the piercings done that my mum
4:19
wouldn't let me have done. Good for you.
4:22
I think that's really important. And I think this to be fair,
4:25
that is a theme. Women doing all the things they
4:28
wanted to do but didn't, if you know what I mean.
4:30
A piercings is one of them. I need to just say before we
4:33
dive in. I have this weird thing where
4:37
every so often I wake up with hiccups and I hiccup all day.
4:42
I had it. I was born with hiccups and I've
4:46
got it today. So for anyone that's watching
4:48
this on YouTube or on Instagram or whatever, if I start eating
4:52
or drinking or kind of looking like I'm holding my breath,
4:56
you'll know why I'm trying to get rid of hiccups.
4:58
But right now? I'm OK.
5:01
Oh wait, I want. You to just hiccup all the way
5:03
through it because I am hiccup free.
5:08
I think we need to get into it. We couldn't have a podcast this
5:18
week without discussing the story of the week, which is the
5:23
Beckham family fallout. So just for anybody that has, I
5:29
don't know, lived under a rock in the last week and has a last
5:32
few days and hasn't been, hasn't gone online, let's give a little
5:35
bit of background. So Brooklyn Beckham, their
5:37
oldest child, Victoria and David's oldest child, has pretty
5:41
much not had any contact for about a year, it appears for
5:44
most of 2025 with his parents. And just before Christmas, there
5:48
was some press around. He only wanted to speak through
5:52
lawyers. And it was becoming very
5:54
difficult. And the press and all the
5:57
commentary at that time was very much like, oh, nepo baby, grow
6:04
up, you're spoiled. You wouldn't be anything without
6:06
them. And everybody was very team
6:09
parents. And then on Monday night,
6:13
Brooklyn wrote a series of stories on Instagram.
6:16
So he didn't write a book, He didn't make an Instagram post
6:19
that he could monetize. He did it on stories, which some
6:21
people are saying is a massive error.
6:23
Put out a series of stories explaining why he wanted no
6:27
contact with his parents and and this included things like
6:33
inappropriate behaviour towards him and that caused him anxiety.
6:37
It included being really not very nice to his new wife, but
6:42
also things around how the brand Beckham was more important than
6:48
anything else and how he'd been having to do things that he
6:51
didn't want to do for a long time.
6:54
And even included, which is the one that kind of outraged me
6:57
slightly, they wanted him to sign the rights to his surname
7:01
away when he got married. In other words, the brand is
7:05
everything. Then the tables turned because
7:08
everyone's like, oh, my God, you know, Oh my God, you know,
7:12
because it's like it's just unfolding in front of our eyes.
7:16
And this, you know, with all the bad news there is in the world
7:19
right now, this would sort of seem quite like exciting and
7:22
interesting. But I mean, I've got so much I
7:24
want to talk about, but what I've got literally so much.
7:28
But before, before we dive in, what's been really interesting,
7:32
one of the things I always do is read the comments to see what
7:35
people are saying. And it feels like people from
7:41
what I'm saying are still very pro the parents and anti, you
7:47
know, spoiled child. I'm saying that in inverted
7:49
commas. And, you know, it's brought out
7:52
a lot of conversation in our house and just generally around,
7:56
do you have to put up with situations with your family that
8:00
affect your mental health? You know, you it's this whole
8:03
adage of you can't choose your family, but actually you can
8:06
choose your family so much one pick so.
8:09
I know. Check it for you.
8:11
Yeah. So I missed a lot of the stuff
8:13
over Christmas because I'm not a huge like celebrity gossip
8:16
person, I guess. But I do love it when it there
8:21
is a bit of drama. I do, you know, I'm there for
8:24
it. So I saw the stories on Monday
8:28
night once everyone started getting on about it, and I
8:30
screen grabbed them because I was so like, and I don't know, I
8:38
mean, there's a bit of me that just wants to go like, can we
8:41
just stop like talking about them and just leave everyone
8:44
alone? Like this is like, why do we
8:46
have to have this drama? And then there's the other bit
8:48
of me that's like grabbing the popcorn.
8:50
Oh, yes, please. Obviously, the first thing is
8:55
why the women are always the baddies.
8:57
So this seems to be being framed as like some kind of battle for
9:01
control over Brooklyn between Victoria and his wife.
9:06
Who is, I want to say, Kate. No, you're Kate.
9:08
Who is she? Nicole.
9:10
Thank you. See, this is our not celebrity.
9:13
Can we check that's correct before we put this podcast out,
9:16
please? Gemma.
9:18
Yeah, I got. I just get Google.
9:21
Brooklyn Beckham, wife, OK. Brooklyn Beck, wife Nicola.
9:28
Nicola. Right.
9:30
So it's been framed as some kind of battle for control between
9:34
Nicola and Victoria. And again, why does it always
9:37
have to be the the woman's going to be the baddie somewhere in
9:40
there. So I feel like intellectually, I
9:42
feel very like bothered by that. But then of course, I started
9:48
seeing the the gossip that kind of I saw someone saying, oh,
9:53
they weren't sure. But then a lot of people don't
9:56
say good things about Nicola. And it seemed that her previous
10:00
boyfriend also went no contact with his family for a while
10:04
while he was with him. And then no, I just again, I
10:09
don't want to be like celebrity gossip person.
10:11
And I am bothered about the fact that we're always framing women
10:14
as the baddies. But then when you do start
10:16
getting into it, you start feeling like is one of them the
10:19
baddie. And I guess like, like some,
10:22
it's really difficult, isn't it? Like what?
10:25
I mean, you're better at celebrity gossip than me.
10:27
Get driving. Brooklyn's ex girlfriends have
10:30
come out and said they can receive the same treatment.
10:33
So I think one of the things we need to remember, well, apart
10:36
from the fact we don't know the truth, is that one part, I would
10:41
say the parents have a huge PR machine behind them.
10:46
So they're on damage limitation right now.
10:48
So everything you therefore read or see, it's now really needing
10:53
to question this truth. Is this factual, which we'll
10:57
never know or is it the PR machine is one thing we do know
11:02
is the brand. Brand Beckham has been a thing
11:06
since they put a head of didn't have a Beckham perfume really
11:09
early on. You know, like really early on.
11:11
Brand Beckham has been a massive machine in motion.
11:14
I think let's stick with the women being the body, first of
11:18
all, because without a doubt, and all of last year it has been
11:24
the press and everything has been around this daughter-in-law
11:27
taking away the son, a bit like Megan and Harry, you know, like
11:32
she became the baddie, like he couldn't have a decision.
11:35
I was going to say that. So there's that bit, isn't
11:40
there? But then there is now beginning
11:42
in this week to be well, maybe it's the mum so but why isn't it
11:46
the dad? Why isn't it the brother?
11:48
Why isn't it the the Brooklyn himself?
11:50
There's definitely this narrative about mums actually,
11:56
that's one thing I want to bring up this concept of boy mum,
11:59
which is a phrase I absolutely hate.
12:01
Nobody uses it in the real world except in the media like
12:04
Instagram. And so now there's this whole
12:06
like boy mum won't let boy leave, you know, and won't be
12:13
happy with any woman that takes her boy away.
12:16
But she's not like that with her daughter.
12:17
And I think that's an interesting thing to talk about
12:20
because is that actually a thing?
12:23
Are boys treated differently by their mums?
12:26
I mean, like traditionally I guess you'd find that the
12:30
suggestion is that that dads are more protective over their
12:33
daughters. Obviously I don't think I've
12:34
heard that kind of boy mums thing that I guess why would I
12:37
not being a mum of anyone boys or not, but but yeah, I mean,
12:44
I've, I mean, parents are gonna be protective over their
12:46
children, right? And it's whether you you kind of
12:49
trust their decisions or not. Yeah, we can.
12:51
The women as baddies thing. Like is it a bad thing to be
12:54
protective? I mean, we don't know either of
12:57
them personally. Like, I mean, have you, I mean,
13:00
I'm assuming your son's had girlfriends or Yeah.
13:03
Yeah, and it's well again you, how do you feel about them?
13:07
Something I've been thinking about in preparation for today
13:10
with the whole boy mum thing. And I obviously try really hard
13:15
to treat my children the same. I have a boy and a girl, but I
13:20
if I'm being really honest, I think I'm a little bit more
13:25
alike. I think he gets away with more
13:27
than my daughter. So I've had to question, you
13:30
know, is there this thing? You know, to be fair, it's such
13:33
a stereotype, but my daughter gets away with more with my
13:36
husband than she does with me, and my boy gets away with more
13:39
than. So, you know, maybe this.
13:41
Is a thing. But also the whole kind of
13:44
protective over girlfriends or boyfriend or you know, or
13:48
whoever just friends is definitely something you have to
13:52
learn as a parent, I think, because will anybody be good
13:56
enough for my son? You know, yes is the answer.
13:59
But you have to kind of to begin with, you get so protective over
14:03
them. And I know I learned this the
14:05
well, not hard way. I actually learned my son when
14:08
he was little. When he was younger, he had this
14:10
friend who he was obsessed with, who I didn't want him to be
14:15
friends with. Without going into too much
14:16
detail about the other child, the other child was not a good
14:20
influence and I spent about a year telling my son not to be
14:24
friends with him. And every single time I told him
14:27
not to be friends with him, he became more obsessed with him.
14:30
And then I decided I needed to take a different approach and I
14:34
decided to never mention the boy's name again in the house,
14:38
ever. I absolutely stopped mentioning
14:41
him, but I actively mentioned other people who I felt were
14:44
better for him. And within like 3 months, my son
14:48
had totally lost interest in this child.
14:51
And I learned very early on that if you have a problem with
14:54
somebody or you think they're not a good influence, obviously
14:57
I'm not talking about if they're abusive or, you know, really
14:59
bad. But if it's just, I've got this
15:02
feeling, not really sure the best thing you can do as a
15:06
parent, obviously mention it, but then stop because as you
15:10
just said, they will work it out for themselves and it's their
15:15
lives and you have to just take a step back.
15:18
And in fact, the more you meddle, the worse it gets, the
15:22
worse your relationship gets. They also come a bit more like I
15:25
want to be with them, go away mum, and that's not going to.
15:27
Work. I did see a clip of David
15:31
Beckham saying you have to let kids make their own mistakes.
15:34
So I mean, I guess that's a thing, I mean.
15:39
I would say I had to like. Trust that you've brought them
15:41
up well enough to spot the baddies eventually, right?
15:44
Like. You do.
15:45
I didn't, I didn't like his comment of after all of this has
15:50
blown up, you need to make your let your children make mistakes
15:52
because it's almost like, are you saying he's made a mistake
15:55
by sharing with the world? Are you saying he's made us like
15:57
like that's not really the way to bring him back.
15:59
But anyway, so. But then there's also like.
16:04
One of the things that I wanted to bring up with this though,
16:07
was that that because I'd actually brought this up before
16:10
as a thing that we could talk about.
16:11
So I feel like it ties into this quite well.
16:13
Was the hashtag no contact thing?
16:15
Because there has been some chat about that recently with this
16:19
discussion that apparently it's a trend that Jen's there going
16:23
no contact with their family and this and broken back.
16:27
And then seems to be like kind of part of that with this thing
16:30
of going no contact. Like it's a trend.
16:32
And you know, there's a lot of older people who I'm guessing
16:34
who are the ones that are being no contacted, saying things like
16:38
you'll regret it one day. And I mean, I know plenty of
16:41
people my age who've gone no contact, but they don't
16:44
necessarily talk about it publicly.
16:46
So is it just a thing that, you know, more people are aware that
16:50
it's an option, that just because there's people in your
16:52
life that you hate that happen to be family, you don't have to
16:55
put up with it. You can just you could just stop
16:58
talking to them. I mean, I mean, you said to me
17:01
before that, you know, that there's something that that
17:04
you've done at some point in your life.
17:05
Like how do you feel about hashtag no contact?
17:08
Well, first of all, when I was younger, and I don't know if you
17:12
remember this, there was this story of a girl divorcing her
17:14
parents. It was a massive story in must
17:17
have been in the 80s or something, maybe early 90s.
17:20
It was probably the first like, and I think she actually got a
17:23
legal separation from her parents.
17:26
I mean, I have no idea who she was, but I remember it And
17:29
everybody was outraged because how dare you do that to your
17:32
parents? And I think whether it's not a
17:35
trend, people have been falling out with their families for the
17:39
since, you know, the beginning of time, let's face it.
17:44
And we now live in a, in a world where things are more public.
17:47
So actually that yes, of course, if you're a celebrity, it might
17:50
be public, but there's lots of people talking about this kind
17:53
of thing who aren't famous. And it's just because we live
17:56
our lives online. Now, I am a real believer that
18:02
you can choose your family. I have experience of this.
18:05
I have experienced this without going into too much detail of
18:09
deciding the the relationship with that family member is so
18:13
toxic that I don't need to deal with this.
18:17
And I actually made that decision way younger than
18:21
Brooklyn and needed a whole ton of therapy to get through it.
18:25
Let's face it. But I also know people that I'm
18:27
close with who have made that decision as an adult that this I
18:31
don't need to put up with this toxic behaviour stroke
18:36
environment and obviously with the beckons.
18:39
We don't know what's happened. But but what I do know is for a
18:44
child to say I cannot deal with my family anymore.
18:51
I believe should be listened to whether all that, whether she
18:54
danced inappropriately or not or whatever is by the by the point
18:58
is, is to actually say I I want no contact.
19:03
That's massive. That is such a big thing and
19:06
what I've found in my experience, not just about me,
19:10
but just in my experience of people that have done that.
19:12
The parent who has been no contacted is always so bitter
19:17
and has never reflective. What I keep seeing, and I feel
19:21
like it's happening here is the parents going Oh no, no, we
19:25
haven't done anything wrong. We haven't done it's all you,
19:27
it's all yours, it's all her or it's it's like just being
19:30
reflective because for this to happen, the there's got to be a
19:33
reason because none of us are perfect and parents.
19:36
It's being a parent is bloody hard and we get it wrong, so
19:40
much so if you get it to the an important job.
19:44
Though that it's hard, maybe, yeah.
19:46
It's such an important job, though, that it's hard to be
19:50
honest with yourself and acknowledge maybe when you've
19:52
got something a bit wrong. I feel like, you know, obviously
19:55
kids should always be believed, but you know, there's a
19:58
difference between an argument where they go.
20:01
I hate. You.
20:02
And storm off to their bedroom and slam their bedroom door.
20:05
And yeah, there's a difference between that and like a
20:08
considered. I feel like I would like to cut
20:11
this person out of my life. I mean, I I've always had a
20:14
great relationship with my parents.
20:17
I think that that there are within my family other
20:20
relationships that have maybe been up and down through the
20:22
years. And some of them I don't know
20:23
anything about because I didn't deliberately go no contact.
20:26
I just kind of didn't didn't seek it out once I kind of moved
20:29
away. So I think I do like like is an
20:35
odd word, but I do like that this is kind of bringing focus
20:38
on to the fact that just because a relationship is is familial
20:42
and you were born into it does not mean that you have to put up
20:47
with behaviour that you start to think is problematic for you.
20:52
When whether it's something you know, if it even if it's just
20:55
that you know, it's not good for your head, like your head's very
20:58
important, it's good that that's kind of that's kind of kind of
21:02
bringing it out. It's also thinking about the
21:06
strengths of characters. Again, the Britain, Brooklyn's
21:09
just being painted as someone in the middle with no autonomy.
21:12
So it's being painted as him making a choice between his wife
21:15
or his family, rather than it being something that he is
21:19
making a decision about between both of them.
21:22
He's not necessarily choosing between his wife and his family.
21:25
He's maybe he's choosing himself.
21:27
And I think that that's one of the important things about the
21:30
no contact concept is to make sure that it's, you know, is it,
21:34
it's something, you know, you reflect on it, don't you?
21:36
You don't just kind of cut off contact with people on a whim.
21:40
This is obviously something that's been reflected on over a
21:42
period of time and decided that a relationship is not
21:44
salvageable. Rather than going no, no, no,
21:48
I'm going to choose this side of the media battle.
21:51
So yeah, I think that's important.
21:53
It is. We're running out of time again,
21:55
Kate. It is a really important
21:57
conversation to have, though. Do you have any?
22:00
And I think final thoughts, I think my final thought is, well,
22:04
I've got so many thoughts on this, but just because they're
22:06
famous doesn't mean it's not real or it's not painful.
22:13
I think because we it's back to this parasocial thing.
22:15
I mean, I said I had a parasocial relationship with
22:17
David Beckham. But but just because we think we
22:20
know them, it's like we've written off that they could have
22:24
done anything wrong. And we.
22:26
Yeah, like, and there's this, it's the back to the NECO baby
22:29
thing as well. You know, he should be grateful.
22:31
Well, I'm sure he is grateful. But Can you imagine growing up
22:34
in the in this massive machine of a brand when you just want to
22:39
be a person? You know, he's probably been
22:42
told what to wear. He has to turn up to certain
22:44
events. He has to be.
22:45
And you could say, well, lucky him.
22:46
But it's like, oh, you know, it's, it's a lot.
22:49
So yeah, we'll probably actually, I've got one last
22:53
thing I want to say is that I believe that you are a parent
22:56
forever. And even when you're 90, you are
23:00
the parent. And if your child is hurting,
23:04
you are the parent. And I feel like there's a bit
23:07
of, I don't know, people need to remember that the parents have
23:13
some response. Well, a lot of responsibility
23:15
here. And we need to feel for the
23:17
child as well. We need to believe and we need
23:19
to believe people. That's the other thing we talked
23:21
about this before, believe people.
23:23
But anyway, I could go on. I won't.
23:31
OK, so if we're done with the beckons, I'm just going to
23:35
lighten the mood a little bit by talking about clothes.
23:39
So I want to talk about Lucy and Yak because this is, I mean,
23:42
it's never just clothes, is it? Nothing.
23:44
It's ever just clothes. So Lucy and Yak, if you're not
23:47
familiar with the brand, they're the, you've probably seen people
23:50
walking around in their dungarees.
23:53
They have the little white patch on them.
23:54
They've been on a lot of people have worn them on TV shows and
23:57
stuff like that as well. They make comfy, nice, and
24:00
they've got a reputation for being very inclusive, very
24:03
ethical. And yeah, their sizing range ran
24:07
from like size 4 up to size 32. And they also have like a petite
24:11
range and a tall range. But recently they've just
24:14
launched an update and from their spring summer collection
24:17
this year, they are removing some of the sizes from the
24:21
range. So they're removing size 4.
24:25
I think they can. You'll still be able to get that
24:26
in their petite range, which goes up to a size 16.
24:31
So they're moving the very smallest size and they are
24:33
getting rid of their size 32 and the 4XL at like the top end of
24:37
their range. So they're saying that the
24:40
reason for this is because they don't basically they don't sell
24:44
enough. They're not selling at the same
24:45
rate as others. They produce them in every
24:47
single new color and print and they end up with excess stock,
24:50
which they are concerned about going into landfill essentially.
24:55
So they're saying that by cutting out these sizes that
24:57
don't sell very well, they'll be able to be more ethical and more
25:02
inclusive. But a lot of people have not
25:06
taken it that way. And I've seen a lot of comments
25:08
on their social media posts because it's the largest size
25:13
particularly is the one that they are removing.
25:17
And there's people saying that that means they won't be able to
25:20
shop at Lucy and Jack anymore. And obviously they're really
25:22
upset. And my kind of thought about it
25:24
is it's great to see brands doing a more inclusive size
25:29
range, but where, where does the line lie?
25:34
Because at the end of the day, they're a commercial business
25:36
and they're trying to make money and they are trying to keep
25:38
things out of landfill. And if those just aren't
25:41
selling, you know, do you make clothes for the for the four
25:45
people that buy it? But those four people need
25:47
clothes. So where are they going to buy
25:49
it if Lucy and Yak aren't making it?
25:50
So they have to go fast fashion. Do they have to make their own
25:53
clothes? I find it a really difficult
25:56
question because you want to be you want to be inclusive and
25:59
everything like that. But clothes do have to sell when
26:01
the when the retailer makes them.
26:03
So, yeah. And I mean, we talked about
26:05
something similar because we talked about that kind of vanity
26:09
sizing a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, we, I mean, you're a
26:14
fight. You're a Franklin lady, but
26:16
you're a vintage fashion lady, which again, we talked about
26:18
then where you, you know, you hold clothes up to you and see
26:21
if they fit. But how do you, how do you feel
26:23
about the site festivals? How do you feel about the size
26:26
range that's offered by High Street?
26:30
Brands, well, I mean, I'm a vintage girl, but I'm a, I'm a
26:34
retailer, but like I had 20 years in retail, in fashion
26:37
retail. So I absolutely know how much
26:40
waste there is and I know the retailers I worked for staggered
26:47
their purchasing for each size. When I was working for the
26:51
brands I worked for, they went up to an 8018 or a 20, but that
26:57
was like 15 years ago and they staggered it.
27:00
So when we had a delivery, you'd have more of a size 12/14/16,
27:06
let's just say a few of 10, you know, like it was staggered.
27:10
So you might get 18 because we didn't go below 8 and we'd might
27:14
get 118 or whatever. So it was kind of staggered in
27:17
that way because it was known that we sold less.
27:23
But I'm also aware of how much went into markdown consistently
27:28
because of the amount of waste there is.
27:31
And we obviously now know it was less talked about back in back
27:34
in my retail days that it goes to landfill ultimately.
27:38
So I really get it from a commercial perspective because
27:44
if the stores I worked for had made the same amount of
27:47
fourteens, which was their best seller in a 20 and A six, there
27:51
would be even more waste. But you could argue that's not
27:54
very exclusive, inclusive. What I wanted to ask you said
27:59
about how, you know, everyone, loads of people are up in arms
28:02
because they now can't shop there.
28:04
But I always think then, well, were you shopping there?
28:07
Because if you were all shopping there, surely they wouldn't have
28:11
a problem that nobody was buying it.
28:13
So, you know, is this a case of people being upset that they now
28:19
can't buy it, but they haven't been buying it because that's
28:22
the hardest thing for a business when you discontinue a
28:25
collection or a range or a product and everyone's up in
28:29
arms, but you're like, well, nobody's been buying it.
28:31
So it's kind of like, I can't win as a business.
28:34
I can't keep making it because you like it.
28:37
You have to keep making it because you're buying it.
28:41
So we don't know those, I'm sure.
28:43
But I would definitely thinking that if I was the brand.
28:46
See, this is this is a question. That's that.
28:50
Yeah, that I was, I was actually asking myself yesterday.
28:53
I mean, the first point, of course, is that we all know that
28:56
when you go sales shopping, the stuff that's in the sale is
28:59
always the pop in sizes and the bottom in sizes, right?
29:01
All the ones in the middle. So I have, I've never been right
29:06
at the bottom, right. I've never been right at the
29:09
bottom, but I have been towards the the top end.
29:15
And yeah, it's a lot easier to kind of get stuff in the sale
29:18
when you when that happens. Yeah.
29:20
So just that first of all, we all know that that there's a
29:22
middle chunk of ranges that sell really well and then all the
29:25
stuff that ends up in the sale so you can get it cheaper.
29:28
But also, I was going to say, this is a question that I was
29:31
actually thinking about yesterday with the are people
29:33
actually buying these things? Because I am a master Joni Gals
29:38
Joni Clothing, which is another brand that's kind of got a bit
29:41
of a reputation for being inclusive and, you know,
29:44
ethical. And I've been buying their
29:46
clothes for absolute years and I love them so much.
29:50
However, I went to their website to see if they had anything that
29:53
I could get for a holiday and they've got a banner across the
29:56
top at the moment. See, I don't know if you know
29:57
this, Kate, this might be new news.
29:59
They've got a banner across at the moment that says they can't
30:01
take any orders. They've turned off commenting on
30:03
their social media and you can't tag them anymore, and there are
30:08
lots of Trustpilot reviews of people saying that they've got
30:11
outstanding returns they haven't been refunded for.
30:14
And finally, if you go to company's house, their accounts
30:18
are overdue. So it sounds like Joni Clothing
30:23
may be in trouble to me. However, when I went looking to
30:27
see if I could find any more information on it, what I found
30:29
was some Reddit's register with people going oh I love their
30:32
clothes. I mean, I only ever bought it on
30:34
vintage or on sale, but I love their clothes.
30:38
So of course, if people aren't buying, if I go going back to
30:42
the Hope McCauley conversation last week, if people aren't
30:45
buying stuff at full price, which is presumably the price
30:48
they have to sell it at to make a profit, keep the business
30:51
afloat and actually actually make money on it.
30:54
Then if people aren't buying it at that price and they're all
30:57
waiting for it to go on sale or for someone else to buy it and
31:00
you know, sell it secondhand on vintage, then the company's not
31:04
going to be continue to be viable.
31:06
So at the end of the day, they're going to go out of
31:07
business even if you even if you love them.
31:11
At what point does a commercial company owe people inclusivity
31:15
if it's not being bought at full price?
31:17
I guess The thing is, you know, you have to, you have to vote
31:20
with your feet and if you're wearing those sizes at the top
31:23
and the bottom ends of the range you need to, you need to buy
31:27
them full price from the brands that do them.
31:30
I mean, but. Then you know, rising cost of
31:32
living, can we all afford to do that?
31:34
As said, you know, it's a business.
31:37
So from Lucy next perspective, they've obviously stopped the
31:40
larger size and the smallest size and, and people are upset
31:44
as, as you've said, but I think like at what point will
31:48
everybody be happy again? If I was the brand?
31:52
So, so they stopped their size 30.
31:54
Did you say, oh, they're 3232, but they've stopped there 32.
31:58
Let's just say they carried on and they tried site size 34 and
32:02
it didn't sell and they pulled it.
32:04
Then people would be upset then. So it's, it's really as a
32:07
consumer, it's so easy for us to sit and complain about it.
32:13
But as a business in the current market, you know, obviously with
32:17
cost of living prices and also tariffs and all these, these
32:20
implications that, you know, all these things that are happening,
32:23
but also trying to be ethical. So trying to be slow fashion,
32:27
trying to use sustainable fabrics, trying to get, you
32:30
know, keep their B Corp banner award, but yet keep everybody
32:36
happy. It's so hard.
32:39
And I feel that it's part part of me feels that we should just
32:41
be so happy that there is a company trying to do that.
32:46
And if, if cutting a size means they survive, then that, you
32:50
know, like good. I shared a real last was it a
32:53
couple of weeks ago of all the High Street shops that we used
32:56
to have. It's done really well because
32:58
everybody is like, Oh my God, what did we do wrong?
33:03
And what did we do when we stopped shopping in the High
33:05
Street is what we did. We started going online and we,
33:08
we started going to retail parks and you know, but this is like
33:11
with this, with this Lucy and Yak or with Joni, if it is the
33:14
case, you know, if, if it goes, we'll all be so upset.
33:18
But if we weren't shopping it, then you can't blame them.
33:24
They have to make corporate commercial decisions, don't
33:27
they, to stay alive? Yeah.
33:28
And I think that again, I'm going back to that resolution.
33:32
The resolution is that the world is an entirely different place.
33:35
I just, we're in such a difficult market at the moment.
33:38
The world is so difficult for anyone to have ethics at all.
33:42
You have to kind of you have to kind of pick and choose them at
33:45
the end of the day, because there is just, there is just no
33:48
space for This is why the world is owned by the billionaire
33:50
corporations that can make the decision to make a loss on
33:56
something so that they can make a profit on other things.
33:59
And if there are that small businesses that are that you
34:04
read that you really love, if you do have the spare cash to
34:08
spend with them, then spend it full price.
34:11
Don't wait for them to put everything on sale, because the
34:13
reason they're putting things on sale is because they're
34:16
struggling to make a profit out of it.
34:18
And I think that that's it's really difficult to remember as
34:20
a consumer if you know that something's ultimately going to
34:23
go on sale. But the more what more sales
34:25
that are brands, specifically a small brand starts to have, I
34:29
always think kind of maybe the, the more you should worry a
34:32
little bit that you're going to lose them and it's difficult to
34:35
look past that. You know, wanting to get
34:37
something cheap or like is, is natural, right?
34:41
We don't want to spend more on stuff than we have to, but if we
34:44
want these brands to exist, maybe we need to kind of suck it
34:47
up when we can. It'll be really interesting to
34:49
know how many they were making of that size because back to
34:53
what I was saying about my time in retail, you know, could they
34:57
have just made fewer or made them to order?
35:00
Because again, we've talked about this when we've talked
35:02
about clothes before, you know, made to measure or making your
35:06
own clothes or having somebody else make your clothes or even
35:09
just slowing the the amount you make as a as a brand.
35:13
And those larger sizes were made to order.
35:15
That would be amazing. But again, that would put the
35:18
cost up because you wouldn't be getting it made, you know, it
35:22
would be individually made. So yeah, again, that would mean
35:25
it was more expensive for the consumer.
35:27
And then nobody will be happy with that either.
35:30
Yeah, yeah. See, Lucy in the statement said
35:32
that they were already making a very limited selection of them
35:35
and then they were still having them left at the end of the
35:37
season. So yeah, I mean, that definitely
35:40
suggests that the the market actually actually isn't there.
35:46
Obviously there is a market. Human beings exist in the size 4
35:52
and they exist in a size 32. But obviously it's a very
35:56
specific market as well, isn't it?
35:57
It's not only existing in that size.
35:59
It's being a person who wants to buy Lucy and yak clothing and
36:02
it's big a person who wants to buy Lucy and yak clothing in
36:05
that specific print that they've released.
36:07
So you will, you will, you will find that then that market just
36:11
shrinks and shrinks and shrinks and shrinks and shrinks until it
36:13
just isn't commercially viable. And at some point you, you have,
36:18
you have to, you have to accept that if you are in in that kind
36:23
of minority as a consumer, that maybe the choice isn't going to
36:27
be available to you. I'm, I'm very supportive of
36:30
there being an inclusive range of sizes available to everybody
36:35
who needs it. But I also, yeah, I'm very aware
36:37
of like the commercial pressures on on companies.
36:40
So it's, it's, it is difficult. Clothes sizing is always an
36:44
emotive topic, I think. And it's really difficult to
36:48
talk about without kind of feeling like, yeah, you're
36:55
picking on someone or excluding someone, but it's not intended
36:59
at people. It's that it's a commercial
37:01
decision, I think, but shoes is. Similar so women's shoes go up
37:06
to a size 8. Always find them in the sale.
37:09
I am currently a size 8 since my foot surgery.
37:12
I don't know how long I'm going to be a size 8 on one of my feet
37:17
and even a size 8 is tight. I'm struggling with but I can't
37:22
buy a size 9 women woman's shoe. By that I mean one is marketed
37:29
at women. Obviously I can go and buy men's
37:32
trainers, but I can't, you know, I can't buy a fashion shoe that
37:40
I want maybe or whatever. Not saying that trainers aren't
37:42
fashionable, but you know what I mean?
37:43
One that's really marketed at women's fashion going out, you
37:47
know, I can't find that. But then I also know that
37:52
there's not very many. You want the drag queen shots
37:55
that. I know, but I don't want those
37:56
shoes either, Gemma, But I could.
37:58
So what am I doing? I'm shopping on vintage.
38:01
That's what I'm doing. So the trainers I've got on
38:04
right now are men's New Balance trainers bought from, bought
38:09
second hand because I can't get what I want in the shop.
38:13
And yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, again, I've had
38:18
friends who've had that issues with shoe sizing as well.
38:20
It's like, yeah, that I mean, that that's not like completely
38:22
out of the range. And I think sometimes shoe
38:24
sizing takes some of the emotion like out of it a little bit.
38:28
If you discuss it as shoe sizing and you think about it like that
38:30
rather than clothes sizing because we start to remove the
38:34
element of body shaming and things like that from it, then I
38:37
think because most people will accept that their feet just are
38:39
what their feet are like, that that's, you know, they can't
38:43
really change that much apart unless they're going to have
38:45
foot surgery. Kate just disappeared and I am
38:49
here on my own now. Yeah, we were, we were winding
38:53
that one up anyway. So, yeah, when you start to
38:55
think about it as shoe sizing, it feels a little less emotive
38:58
maybe I would say so. And then we can start to accept
39:02
that there aren't so many people buying that size, but that it is
39:05
an issue for people who do need that size.
39:07
And maybe we we start to talk about where we, you know, does
39:11
every store have to be for everybody?
39:21
OK, so things are going excellently today.
39:23
Kate just disappeared at the end of the Lucy and Yak segment.
39:27
I was very professional and obviously wrapped it all up very
39:30
neatly with a bow. I witted something about shoes
39:32
and sizing, and then I panicked and ran away.
39:34
That's exactly what we need from these things.
39:37
And then, then, then I found Kate again.
39:39
She came back, which is good. We record this remotely because
39:42
we live in different places. She came back and then we did a
39:44
whole thing starting the next segment and I haven't hit
39:47
record. So it's going really well today.
39:49
So we'll we'll, we'll do, we'll we'll do, we'll start talking
39:53
about it again. I think Kate's refined her views
39:56
on the topic in the last five minutes that we weren't even
39:58
recording. So welcome back, Kate.
40:01
Hello, Gemma. Interestingly, I haven't
40:04
hiccuped yet. So let's this is.
40:06
Something's going well. So, right, so that means going
40:10
right. So it's just the Wi-Fi to deal
40:12
with, right. What we're going to talk about
40:13
now we're done with Lucy and yeah, we.
40:15
Are going to talk about the Diary of Aceo podcast, Stephen
40:19
Bartlett and a clip that has gone viral in the last week or
40:24
two, and I want to talk about it because it's very, very
40:28
interesting. So he is having a conversation
40:31
with a guest about how people are having fewer children, which
40:36
we know is a fact. It's something we've talked
40:39
about and we and you will because you are child free by
40:41
choice. We'll talk about this in a bit,
40:44
but. Because it's my fault.
40:48
Instead of talking about it from a business perspective or a
40:52
societal perspective, which I thought the diary of a CEO was
40:55
supposed to be about. So he's so not talking about an
40:58
ageing population and who's going to look after them.
41:01
And if there are fewer people, does that mean there's going to
41:03
be less tax paid in and the positives around an
41:06
environmental impact on having fewer children?
41:10
And does it even matter? Because AI is going to take over
41:12
the world anyway? So they're not having those
41:15
conversations. No, instead Steven talks about
41:19
how some men are very worried that their genes are running
41:25
out, that their bloodline is ending and asked the question,
41:31
should society intervene? Now, it's worth saying this is
41:34
just one clip from a whole podcast, but it is a
41:38
conversation that is being had online by men around the, the,
41:45
the, the, the future is at risk, if you like, because US women
41:50
are deciding to have fewer children.
41:53
Now. I love reading the comments, as
41:55
I said before in the Beckham segment, I love seeing what
41:58
people are saying. There's a, most people are
42:01
saying, should society intervene?
42:03
Well, that sounds like Gilead, like Handmaid's Tale, like, Oh
42:07
no. Lots of people are saying, well,
42:11
what about women's bloodline? Why is it only the man's
42:14
bloodline? Why?
42:15
And do women even care about their bloodline?
42:17
Is that something they even think about?
42:19
What? And why do men think about it
42:21
but not women? But also, there's lots of people
42:23
talking about natural selection and talking about, I don't know,
42:27
survival of the fittest or however you want to call it, As
42:30
in not everybody has a child. Like, that is a fact.
42:35
And it could be because you decide to.
42:37
It could be because you don't want to, but it also could just
42:40
be because you never find a partner and you never procreate.
42:43
You know you never have a bloodline going on.
42:46
So there's loads to talk about. But exciting riled me up I have
42:52
to say. So have you seen the clip gem?
42:57
Some of it I am aware of the conversation consider me riled.
43:05
So, yeah, I mean, I, I'm going to start with the obvious, which
43:09
should society intervene? No, and we're done.
43:14
The end. See you next week.
43:17
So I I think that there's this should society intervene because
43:21
men's bloodlines are dying out? Seems like a real kind of, I
43:24
mean, definitely no. I mean, I feel like that's rage
43:28
bait, to be honest. Like it's got everyone talking
43:30
about it so fantastic. Like, and it ties into this
43:35
thing where we're talking about the men's loneliness epidemic.
43:37
And again, it's kind of always framed as all these nasty women
43:41
that don't want to partner off with men and we need somehow we
43:44
need to, to, to rescue them. Whereas I think the question
43:47
should we should be asking is why what kind of partners do men
43:51
need to be to have women actually want to spend time with
43:54
them? The fact that as women are are
43:57
feeling like they have more choice in their lives, that
43:59
they're choosing not to just like hook up with the first
44:03
first man who gives them some support.
44:05
Is is is a great thing. And if men are then finding that
44:08
they're not finding the partners that they want, maybe we need to
44:11
ask the question what's wrong with them rather than what's
44:12
wrong with women Regards to bloodlines.
44:16
Like this isn't Game of Thrones like bloodlines?
44:22
Like who cares really? The, the, the gene pool is, is
44:27
what it is. I mean, I don't necessarily,
44:28
like, going into, like, the survival of the fittest because,
44:31
you know, I've made the choice not to have children for most.
44:35
Yeah, for most of my life. Like, we discussed all this
44:38
before. But that's not a survival of the
44:41
fittest. If my bloodline then dies out at
44:43
the end of it, it's just like, I mean, just like, who really
44:46
cares? We're not finished.
44:48
We're not. I don't know, name some other
44:49
animals that we're not. But, you know, we are.
44:51
We are human beings. And if we die out because
44:55
everybody chooses not to have children, then Joe Watts so be
44:58
it. Maybe.
44:59
Yeah. There are too many people on the
45:00
planet in the 1st place. And maybe declining birth rate.
45:02
Rates aren't something we should be worried about.
45:08
It's interesting. Well, it's so interesting.
45:12
The bloodline thing I think is quite fascinating.
45:15
I had a little convo with my husband about this and I said I
45:21
feel like the only people that ever talk about bloodline is
45:26
men. So where does this come from?
45:28
Like were you brought up? You know that you had to pass on
45:33
the family line because why is this a male thing?
45:37
Because if I choose to not have a child and I'm an only child, I
45:42
have stopped the bloodline. But I it's never, it's never
45:46
entered my head, but I don't feel like anybody's ever said it
45:49
to me. It's like it's very much the man
45:52
seed equals bloodline, but the woman's egg doesn't.
45:57
It's kind of like that, but it's.
46:00
Which is patriarchy. That's what it is.
46:03
OK? It's patriarchy.
46:04
I know because because we take men's surnames and they're not
46:09
talking about bloodlines, they're talking about names.
46:11
But I was wondering where I know it's of course it's patriarchy,
46:16
but like, was he as a Gen. X man told that?
46:20
You know, are we still telling that to our sons?
46:23
So I'm Gen. X Adam is Gen.
46:25
X. He definitely will have been
46:27
brought up to, you know, he has to pass on the family line.
46:30
Interestingly, was his sister ever told that?
46:31
Probably not Umm, but that's of a generation, isn't it?
46:36
I mean, you know, that's boomer generation saying that to Gen.
46:40
X generation. So if young young men now or
46:44
boys young, you know, 20 somethings or whatever are being
46:47
told that, that's like we're carrying on with this narrative
46:50
like it has to stop. And I think the worry around the
46:54
Diary of Aceo thing is how much influence he has.
46:58
He has such a huge amount of influence and it's worrying that
47:05
people with huge influence imply even in one clip or one
47:10
conversation. But there have been other
47:12
conversations that have been questionable.
47:14
So it's not just this one. It's kind of implying that,
47:19
well, just reiterating the whole now men deserve a woman.
47:25
It's basically what what they're saying.
47:27
I think my husband couldn't answer.
47:29
The question we kind of going, we seem to kind of be going
47:31
through a little bit of a rollback of rights in a lot of
47:35
areas at the moment. I mean, I'm sure that we can all
47:37
agree that my hope is that this is a historical thing.
47:42
We go through kind of eras that, you know, rights move on quite a
47:47
lot. And then you'll go through a bit
47:49
where they're where they're rolled back and eroded by the
47:51
kind of power again, but they're rolled back a little bit each
47:54
time that less each time they get rolled back.
47:56
So this is how maybe we end up with more all rights, more
48:02
autonomy, more equality. My hope is from a historical
48:05
perspective that in kind of 20-30 years time, they're
48:10
looking back on this time and going well.
48:12
Like it was like revolutionary and and now how ridiculous it is
48:17
because everybody's equal. Wouldn't that be nice?
48:19
Oh, my God, I'm so idealistic. Yeah.
48:21
So I feel like we are going through that bit of history at
48:24
the moment where rights are rolled back and eroded.
48:26
And there's all this, there's all this chat.
48:28
I mean, obviously gay rights and trans rights, men's, women's
48:33
women's rights even, you know, reproductive rights particularly
48:37
has been big conversation for the last for the last few years
48:42
and this kind of in cell culture and the men's loneliness
48:45
epidemic all kind of times into it.
48:47
So yeah, when you see someone with that big a platform talking
48:50
about it like, like it's this massive issue.
48:53
And again, like it's women that are the problem.
48:55
Yeah, it is, because the problem is they also reach the younger
49:01
men. So they're affecting the Gen.
49:02
ZS when they start seeing that kind of stuff online, they are
49:05
affecting. And this is someone with power,
49:08
authority and influence who is not a peer of these kind of Gen.
49:14
Z kids. And it's, it's going to, it's
49:16
going to have an impact on them. I lost you again.
49:19
Technology is not a friend. Such an.
49:20
Excellent. I was making, I was making such
49:23
an excellent grown up point about Stephen Bartlett being an
49:27
authority, an older authority figure, and that younger boys
49:31
listening to him will see this as the truth, not just kind of
49:34
someone's opinion, but that this could be this could be, could be
49:37
fact. But there are facts in here,
49:40
obviously in one of those facts is a declining birth rate and
49:43
potentially then a declining population.
49:45
Yeah. And I think what he should have
49:47
spoken about, although I haven't listened to the whole podcast,
49:50
maybe they did go on and talk about it.
49:51
But that's not the bit that's gone viral.
49:53
But what I would to bring it back to the real potential issue
49:59
maybe is what impact do you think a declining birth rate is
50:05
going to have on us and our society?
50:07
Do you foresee there being an issue or as some people have
50:11
said, well, with AI there's not going to be an issue because AI
50:14
is going to do everything for us anyway.
50:16
One of the issues, I mean, that we're already facing is an aging
50:18
population, isn't it, that we see as, you know, more and more
50:25
people are older, there's fewer and fewer younger people to
50:28
maybe look after them and to, you know, do the, do the, do the
50:32
actual work. Once people are ageing and
50:34
getting into a position where they're not necessarily, you
50:38
know, capable of building houses or whatever it is that we want
50:41
people to do. I'm not sure like, but that is
50:45
one of the, that is one of the issues is an ageing population
50:49
does does cause, does cause a problem societally?
50:53
If we're going to look at it from that just purely practical
50:58
angle, I suppose otherwise, I, I mean, there are a lot of people
51:03
in the world and we don't necessarily need this many
51:06
people. We are, we can also agree that
51:08
there's got to be like a positive impact to surely on
51:11
these things in that, you know, we are, we live in a world of
51:15
finite resources. And in a world of finite
51:19
resources, you can't keep having a growing population because
51:24
there just isn't, there isn't room.
51:26
So unless we're all going to go and live on Mars, that was like
51:31
the only planet I could think of there, then, you know, maybe,
51:34
maybe it's not necessarily a negative thing.
51:37
I tend to feel like people put too much panic into all this
51:40
stuff, like it's a problem that we have to solve when really
51:44
it's just like the way people are living their lives.
51:48
And so maybe we just have to just suck it up and deal with
51:50
it. Yeah, and then there might be
51:53
some pain to begin with. So for example, as you said,
51:57
there's an ageing population. So when they stop working,
51:59
they'll stop contributing. From a tax perspective.
52:02
Obviously older people do pay tax.
52:04
Obviously they pay tax and their pensions, I know all that.
52:08
But there will be fewer people paying in to to the society from
52:13
a tax perspective. But eventually one would presume
52:16
that's going to even out a little bit because we know
52:19
millennials have had fewer children and, and Gen.
52:22
Z's are deciding not to have children.
52:24
So, you know, one would presume eventually it's going to balance
52:27
itself out. But I agree around we do tend to
52:31
panic about things and we evolve like we've evolved over
52:35
centuries where, you know, people used to die young, for
52:38
example, that, you know that that and now they don't.
52:42
The industrial revolution, we're in a different revolution now.
52:45
We're in the, you know, AI revolution to even probably
52:47
beyond digital AI revolution. And our behaviors are changing,
52:51
changing. So we're now in the next, coming
52:54
into the next phase. And as I said, do we all need to
52:57
panic or do we just need to adapt?
53:00
And we consider, for example, if there are fewer people, they
53:04
will need NHS, will need less money.
53:07
I mean, obviously not tomorrow, but in the future, you know,
53:10
things will evolve, things will change.
53:12
And we do tend to panic, don't we?
53:14
Yeah, I think, I mean, it's, I think it's natural for people
53:18
to, to like the status quo. I like the status quo.
53:22
I, you know, I, I don't want things to change all the time.
53:24
It's very, it's very stressful. But when you start to talk about
53:30
like the big issues, like something like this, I think at
53:33
the end of the day, they're all, they're big issues, but they're
53:36
individual people's choices. And you know, as I don't think
53:40
personally, I don't have the brain space to be worrying about
53:44
the human race dying out because women are choosing not to have
53:47
children when it's hard enough to decide what to have to dinner
53:51
for dinner tonight, right? So I think sometimes maybe we
53:54
should all just chill out, focus on our own lives, and stop
53:57
worrying about not the end of the world.
54:00
Agree. And yes, the end of the world.
54:02
So even Bartlett can shut up. Well, again, maybe we need to
54:08
stop listening to it's the doom mongers as well, isn't it?
54:13
And yeah, there's there's a lot of those.
54:16
It's it is it is disturbing about a lot of things.
54:19
Watching some of this stuff become more mainstream.
54:24
I mean, yeah, we can talk about it as a societal issue.
54:27
And maybe, you know, there is a societal issue there that that,
54:30
you know, but it does all come down to individual choices.
54:33
And a lot of this discussion about the death of male
54:37
bloodlines and things like that is all very kind of in cell
54:40
culture, which was something that for a long time was online,
54:44
hidden away in chat rooms that no one really knew where they
54:47
were. And it was not a mainstream
54:49
thing. And we all thought they were
54:50
just kind of weirdos. But when you see people with a
54:54
big platform, I mean, Steven Bullet's a dragon, right, start
54:58
parroting the same lines that you would hear on these kind of
55:01
in cell forums, it is worrying. And it's becoming a lot.
55:04
It's becoming a lot more mainstream.
55:05
And yeah, it can be really scary.
55:10
Yeah, and you said, I think at the beginning around we've had a
55:13
lot of publicity and had a lot of views and things like that.
55:16
But I think he's lost a lot as well because he's even got one.
55:21
There's another one doing the rounds where he's interviewed a
55:23
woman who doesn't interview women very often and she's
55:26
saying there's no such thing as burnout.
55:29
You're just not, you know, like it's impossible and says things
55:32
like if you want to succeed, don't look after your parents
55:35
and don't look after your children.
55:37
And it's, and it's it's a bit click baity, as you said, but
55:40
also I feel we're in a world where people want to cause
55:46
controversy and invite guests onto a podcast that are going to
55:49
say really, you know, divisive things and we need to stop.
55:53
I mean, it'd be great if we could stop being divisive, but
55:56
we need to stop enabling it by creating the division in what we
56:01
put out as well. And I think he has a
56:04
responsibility as with a big platform to not do that.
56:08
But it seems that clicks and views and brand is more
56:12
important. And I think that's a real shame.
56:15
Yeah, that's life as well. Well, because I want to finish
56:17
off with a little bit of positive news.
56:19
I agree with you absolutely there.
56:21
But a little bit of positive news is that Amy Poehler won a
56:27
Golden Globe. I think this week.
56:31
For her podcast, which is called Good Hang, and it's just, yes,
56:36
very much yeah. A good space.
56:40
I think people to just have a good hang, which we're
56:44
definitely on board with. So if we're going to take
56:47
anything away, we can ignore the stupid rage baity Diary of Aceo
56:51
and maybe we should just go and have a good hang with Amy or us.
56:56
Thank you for joining us for another roundup of midlife chat,
56:58
hot takes, and occasional moaning.
57:01
Well, quite a bit of moaning. Make sure you hit subscribe so
57:04
your podcast app gently nudges you every Friday because
57:07
honestly, who remembers anything without a reminder this day?
57:10
And also we like people liking us because we're very needy.
57:14
And if you fancy being extra lovely, leave us a rating or a
57:17
review, it helps more brilliant women like you find us.
57:22
Have a great weekend everyone, and make sure you find time for
57:24
yourself. You deserve it.