Latest / Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered. / Beyond the Ceremony Podcast Ep 8: Working With Wedding Planners

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Beyond the Ceremony Podcast Ep 8: Working With Wedding Planners · Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered.

• So welcome back to today's episode of beyond the ceremony. I'm Laura Crockett, your host and AMC mentor, and I am joined today in person. This is really exciting because I've got my guest in the studio with me. It's the fabulous Lindsay, also known as Worcestershire wedding planner. Hi, Lindsay. Hello. So this is really exciting because actually, obviously, a lot of the guests that I've had on the podcast, we've been discussing different issues within the celebrant world, so a lot of them have been celebrant. So it's really nice to have somebody in a different profession coming to join us so we can talk about those relationships. And it's really exciting to have you. So first of all, can you tell us a little bit about you and what you do? Yeah. So I'm Lindsay, hello. I'm the bosses. She wedding planner, which in itself is probably fairly self explanatory, maybe, yeah. But essentially, I like support couples through their wedding planning journey, for want of a better word, yeah, yeah. So sometimes couples come to me right in the very beginning when they are very confused and very overwhelmed with everything. Well, know what they're kind of looking for, any recommendations of suppliers they're like, don't even know where to begin with everything. Yeah. So I help them sort of work out, you know, what venues might be suitable for them, what their priorities are, really, are you really like, food, music, what's your day going to look like, and how they're all going to come together? And then I, as I say, recommend people that we can book for them a lot of the time. I do a lot of the kind of admin and the not so exciting, yeah, yeah, emails and the contracts and all those kind of things, yeah, yeah. Either because I've helped in that initial stage where they're looking for people in the first place, or because people have done all that on their own, yeah, and then they're like, Okay, I've hit a bit of a brick wall. I don't know what to do next. I've got a venue and I've got a venue and I've got stuff, yeah. What happens now? Yeah? So yeah, a lot of spreadsheets, a lot of timing, logistics, emailing suppliers and getting information for people, and I'm also quite often there with them on the day of the wedding. Yes, of course, sometimes I literally see it through from start to finish, yeah, from that very first conversation of, what are we even doing right the way through to, like, actually seeing it happen. But sometimes people do all the planning by themselves. They're happy to, you know, get quite creative with it and work everything out on their own. But then they're just like, please come on the day. Yes, please make sure it all runs smoothly and nothing goes wrong. So I just step in then to manage suppliers, sort the guests out, get drinks out and figured out when it needs to be everything is on time, so no one's got anything to worry about Absolutely. And I think as well, I've said this before, it's like booking planners and other suppliers who are kind of experts in their field, is as much about them knowing what to do, but also them knowing what to do when things maybe don't go to plan. So I think that's where having a wedding planner is so great as well, yeah, because you look after all that. So they can just sit back and enjoy the day and really not, not really know what goes on behind the scenes, yeah? And, I mean, I think more and more people are doing a lot of kind of DIY or dry hire venues, yeah? And, I mean, TPS and Marques and stuff like that, which have so many benefits, yeah? And I personally, they're my favorite kind of witness to do, really, but when you are literally in someone's back garden, yeah, where there's no venue team and no kind of no support with anything, people suddenly go, Oh my gosh, okay. How is that gonna get from there to there? Yeah? Or, you know, how are we gonna when I'm having drinks and I'm with people I don't know, who's gonna be moving stuff around, yeah? Who's gonna be figuring things out for us? So that's when they kind of need somebody who's in charge. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the thing. When I get to the stage where I'm at like, a couples meeting with my couples who are getting married, and, you know, we're going through their questionnaire, we're talking about the actual logistics of how that ceremony is going to look. And there are certain things like that where I'll say, Oh, who's going to be doing this, or who's going to be sorting that out? And they're like, Oh, actually, I don't know if they're a DIY Wedding, yeah. So having those planners is honestly so essential, especially for those kind of ceremonies, because I think you've got somebody then that's on it all. Obviously, I can look after the actual ceremony stuff, but there's so many questions where, when the bride arrives, where's the car gonna go? How's the bride gonna get from where she's been dropped off to the ceremony without anyone seeing her, without us knowing that actually the ceremony is ready to go, like all these different things. So I think it's so essential. When it's definitely have someone to do those things, it will then be a parent, a friend, somebody in the bridal party. Yeah, a lot of the time, especially during the ceremony, yeah. You want them to be present, yeah, and enjoying that, and not have all the pressure of everything and throughout the day, you don't want them running around doing a million jobs for you. So yeah, as much as you want to get them involved, and it's nice sometimes to be like, yeah, you've got so like, yeah, you've got certain roles and tasks to do the rest of it. Yeah. You don't want them to have to have somebody else, yeah, give to Lindsay and then she could just crack on with it. Yeah? Absolutely. So tell us a bit then, obviously, you've spoken a little bit there about people who maybe have weddings at home, or, you know, on on venues where they might know the family, it could be a friend's family farm, or something like that. Tell us about your experience. Of celebrant ceremonies as a planner. So perhaps where they've used a celebrant for those, oh, honestly, they are, like, my favorite things to do. They just tell us the truth after we've stopped recording. I love that. I still do see such a mix. Yeah, of course, totally get there's a lot of people. People who want to do all the legalities and everything just there and then, yes, yeah, all off, all in one go, Yeah, but it's just, it's so refreshing when people come in and they're like, right? We want to make it all about us so personal. And you know, particularly if you are doing it at home, you've probably chosen that because, maybe because it's kind of convenient because, yeah, but you want it to be a bit more, like, sentimental, or like, it means a little bit more to you, and it's nice to bring somebody to wherever you are, yeah, and not be restricted by, like, what you can and can't do, or where you've got to do it, or what you've got to say, just having somebody come in that kind of, yeah, writes it all for you, makes it so much more about YouTube? Yeah, absolutely. That's the one thing that you know. It's a bit it's frustrating sometimes when the wedding ends up not being about the people, yes, yeah. So often you get a bit lost in all pretty things, and when it looks like that, actually, I'm like, use that time, yeah, talk about why we're here, yeah, yeah. About you, your story. You know, all the things you're going to go on to do together, that's a really nice opportunity where you've got everyone sat down looking at you to just be like, This is why we're all here. Yeah, let's make that moment personal, absolutely. And I guess for you, as well as a planner, you've seen so many weddings, and like you say, there's all different choices. Like, people might use a registrar, they might get married in the church. They might have a celebrant. I guess it's nice for you when it's a celebrant ceremony, because it's a different script. Different script and maybe one that you haven't heard before. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, it's always because it depends on how much I've been involved with a couple beforehand, even when I'm involved from quite early on, I'm still not, like, I don't know them particularly, yeah, well, yeah, and especially when they've just booked me to be there on the day, I don't know much about them at all, just for the wedding. So it's really nice when I get to just kind of sit back for a minute as well and go, Okay, a little bit more about them and their friends get involved, and you just get to learn so much more about them. And I think that's really nice for the guests as well, that just at some point in the day you just take a minute to be like, yeah, these guys are really amazing. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, that is actually the reason why we're here, because we're here because we're celebrating them and their love. So absolutely, that should start from the ceremony. I totally agree. So what would you say, and maybe some of the logistical side of things, so the benefits of working with a celebrant for your couple, so for example, that kind of flexibility of venues, or maybe timings, that kind of thing, are there? Are there certain things that stand out for you in terms of logistics? Yeah, I can say it. I mean, from, like, my point of view as someone who is, like, working at your wedding, yeah, the thing that I love most wearing couples say to me, we've got a celebrant is that I know who that person is going to be. Yes, yeah, absolutely. A few weeks before everyone's wedding, I'll get in touch with them, and I'm like, right? Tell me who you cater is, your photographer is, yada yada yada, and I'll get the celebrants information, and I then know that I can reach out to them, and I know what they look like, yeah, upon the day, I'm like, you're the right person. And I can communicate with them beforehand, so I can get in touch and be like, okay, timings of things, yeah, a lot of the time I do get quite involved in ceremonies if I'm needed, yeah, things like, I'll be the one that's looking after the music, and I'm giving you the cues for this. And did you know that we're throwing the confetti at that point? Yeah. So I can check all of that with a celebrant beforehand, which is really nice. And I just imagine for the couple, that must be so reassuring to know who's turning up, to have been through all that with them, to have worked with them on, you know, how everything's going to kind of look and go on the day. Yeah. And you just don't get that when you have you're not entirely sure who you're dealing with, yeah, yeah, just the I feel like I've gone off on a touch. No, that's okay. No, you're fine. I think it's just that flexibility, isn't it? And also, I think really it's that attention to detail, like when I work with a planner on a ceremony exactly like you said, you'll get in touch before the ceremony. You know that actually you've had that conversation between the two of you, your couples, then know that they can sit back and go, yeah, it's okay. Everything's being looked after, because my planner and my celebrant have had that conversation. They're working together, and our priority, we're both working towards the same goal, which is to make sure that that ceremony goes as seamless as possible. Yeah, so I think, exactly like you say, having that person on the day, that familiar face, somebody that you know, but also in the run up, having someone that you can discuss things with, because I think more and more so nowadays, my couples are having a lot more fun with their ceremonies. They're being more adventurous. They're planning more different things, surprises for each other, which is always stressful when you're trying to manage them without doing spoilers. But, you know, it's all that kind of thing. So actually, if you've got a planner and a celebrant working together on that, it means that, actually, we can think about everything and make sure that everything's covered off so that everything kind of runs as smoothly as possible, really, yeah, yeah. It's so nice when I'm able to even just like read a little bit the script beforehand. A lot of the time, people would just say to me, will it be helpful if I just show you kind of running order? Because, as you say, a lot of the time with your kind of more religious ceremonies or your civil ceremonies, it does follow the same kind of, of course, structured, Yeah, same kind of script, so everyone kind of knows what to expect. And I. That has its advantages, but also it's a bit sort of so when they say, Oh, we're having a celebrant and it's gonna be totally different, I'm like, Okay, can you just give me some ideas? So we're expecting something like, what we talking time wise? And I think that's another thing. Timings can differ massively with my couples. Like, I always get asked that question, oh, how long is a ceremony? And I say, I'm really sorry to be that person, but it's literally as long as a piece of string, because it really depends on you. I'll have some couples who want something, you know, that's really different. They want loads of different symbolic elements in there. They want, you know, they want to do a ring lottery and a hand tying and two readings. They want to light a candle. They want to plant a tree. Like, you know, you get all of these stuff. So that's gonna be a really long ceremony. Then I'll get some couples who are like, No, we don't want any readings. We literally just want to share our story, keep it quite traditional, but more relaxed and personal. And actually that can be quite a short ceremony, so it does really depend. So I think exactly like you say, having that kind of running order from the celebrant beforehand, or having that conversation, being able to talk things through is probably really important when it comes to your timings, being able to manage the rest of the day, yeah, but I just think it's really nice that you then have all that choice. Yeah? The people that are a little bit more nervous about standing up in front of everyone, yeah? And they're sort of like, I guess I want to do something, and it's nice to kind of mark it somehow. But can we just have a quick Yeah, absolutely. We've got a couple of pictures. It looks amazing, but I'm ready to move on there. Yeah, yeah. And then the people that are like, no, no, let's make a big thing about this. I've seen people doing shots of tequila, yeah, tell stories, add music in whatever else, yeah, if you want to, then stretch it out and do other stuff with it. And, as you say, add in whatever elements you want to, yeah, rather than just like, follow this script, then it's, it's nice to see the way that people kind of play around with it a bit, and the different ideas they come up with absolutely and in terms of venues, obviously, that's something that we can offer where you don't need to have a licensed venue. How would you say that kind of affects your couples? Do you get a lot of couples who you know that creates a bit of a barrier for them? Or do you, like, talk to me a little bit about that? Yeah. I mean, honestly, it just opens up so much when you you know you don't have to rely on, oh, okay, it has to be this, and it has to be that. Yeah, there are some venues that I have worked at before that have the legal license, but people will still choose to have a celebration. Oh, absolutely, yeah, just because they have the option to, like, personalize it then. So it's nice that, you know, particularly because I do a lot of weddings at home and that sort of, yeah, if that is what you would like to go for, you don't then think, oh god, okay, we can't do, yeah, anything, you know. Or we have to go for the church. We have to do something. Otherwise, it's nice that you can just make it a part of the day that you're already planning. Yeah, somebody can come to you and do something really personal for you, absolutely. So, yeah, wherever you are, whatever you want to do, it's nice that you have the option of having somebody and exactly like you said about making that ceremony, like meaningful, actually, exactly like you touched on. You've chosen that venue for a reason. So why not have that as your whole wedding? Like so have your ceremony there, have your reception there, have your evening do there? Like it is great that actually couples have that flexibility to have their ceremony in their family home or, you know, somewhere that's really, really meaningful to them too. And then timings as well. I guess that's another thing that I wanted to highlight, because when you are perhaps having a legal ceremony, there might be, like, specific time slots that couples have to go for, because that's what's available. Have you ever had kind of couples that have come up against it because their slots not available? And then you've, you know, advised to celebrate in that sense? Or, you know, what about? What do you think about time a few times where they've said, Okay, we've booked the venue for a certain day, but then the ceremony is going to have to be, like, super early. And, yeah, yeah, because that's what's available. And I'm like, Okay, are you sure you've got time to do all your hair or your makeup? Like, everything set up. There's some venues where you can't actually access before a certain time, so like, That only leaves you an hour and a half or whatever to get everything in, everybody ready, yeah, it's a bit of a mad rush if you're going to do that way or the opposite way you get it. Okay, the ceremony is not going to be at sort of five o'clock in the evening. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Benefits to having more time in the morning, but now you've got to squeeze everything in tonight. So yeah, just being able to choose, you know, how you want your day to flow, yeah? Is Yeah. It's such a benefit. So the other issue that sometimes people have is that typically people do run a little bit late. Sometimes, oh, if you're not ready, you say your ceremony is going to start at 12, but actually at 10 past you've only just got in your dress. Yeah, you know, you're still faffing around with stuff a little bit. There is that stress that registrars have said to me, if they're not here in five minutes, I'm leaving. Oh, no, I've got another wedding to do. Watch it later on. Situation, literally, just pray that everyone's gonna turn up in the next 30 seconds. Wow. And I've had conversations with registrars where I'm like, please just hang on. Five minutes more. And normally, no one's ever that late. Yeah, really becomes an issue. But there's always that panic that it's been close. Yeah, I had a bride a little while ago who had, like, quite, like, three or four young kids. So you can imagine, in the morning, I've only got two, and that's enough. I can't imagine three or four, yeah, so trying to sort everybody out in time was just, it all went right out the window, yeah? And luckily, because they had a celebrant the. Ceremony ended up starting way later than anyone, yeah? And, you know, we just kind of figured out, okay, what's the knock on effect for the rest of the day? But for the ceremony itself, it was like, you just come down when you're ready, yeah, I'm here. You know, the celebrant wasn't rushing off. You had the full day, yeah? And I'm here until whatever time you need me, sort of thing, absolutely. And then you can sort out all the logistics afterwards. Okay, Therese, everybody else, excuse me? Yeah, Lindsay's there, like, Please, can we be on time? It's so true, though, because I did a, I did a ceremony last year, and it was myself and registrars working together. So the registrars was going to do the very beginning, the legal part, which was kind of the words that they had to say. Then they passed over to me, and I carried on and did the full ceremony. But actually, when we were in that situation, it was two brides, and they were both running late. So then one got there, then the second one got there, and she was still running late. And the registrars were exactly the same, saying, Look, we're going to have to go soon. And the venue were like, Oh my gosh. Like, they might have to leave, but because, luckily, in that scenario, they'd booked both of us. I was already there, so I was like, Well, look, if worse comes to worse, I'll just carry on and do the whole ceremony, including the intro and everything, and then they'll have to sort the legal bit. Either later on, the registrar said they could have come back later, or, you know, on another day, they'd still have had their ceremony. But exactly like you said, if you've only got a registrar, and then the time is going, they're busy. I mean, they're very popular. They have a lot of, you know, a lot of bookings to get to. They've got to go and do a lot of legal and, like legal ceremonies. So I completely understand, but it's one of those things that sometimes they do have to move on, and then Lindsay would have to step in and be the celebrant. Yeah, I have had that worry. Sometimes I'm just like, am I gonna have to get up and say something in a minute? Or I'm just like, finding a family member Quick. Come on. And it's never actually happened, but it is just that, like, reassurance and that peace of mind, that, like, okay, whatever happens, we're prepared for it. Yeah, that's so, so true. I'll have to give you some basics so that you can always step into the last minute. I'll add it to my list of things. So what would you say? Lindsay, are the key attributes that you look for in a celebrant? So when you're making recommendations for your couple. So a couple have come to you. They want a celebrant. What are you going to look for? Obviously, it's going to be different per couple, but the main, as I said, the benefit is having such a different range of options. So I do know quite a lot of celebrants, but I feel like every single one of them has their own little unique thing. Absolutely, there's some that are very sort of LGBT friendly that I know, okay, that might be the direction. Or if you want something very family orientated and something a bit more sentimental than it might steer you towards this particular person, yeah, no, that's more what they're used to dealing with. So it's just about the main thing with all my supplies is, just as long as you've got a good personality, yeah, that's it. Just nice to work with. As like, boring as that sounds, yeah, you can find people that are very sort of difficult or sort of, this is what I do, and that's it. I'm sticking to it, yeah, just people that are quite open, yeah, yeah, quite fun, quite friendly. And then when every couple comes to me, I'm like, Okay, let me listen to what you're looking for and what your day is going to look like, and then try and figure out from there which person would be the right kind of Yeah, things that you're going to match with them. And I think that's the thing. We talk about it a lot, but we are all so different, exactly like you say, we've all got different personalities, and so have our couples. So I think it's always about finding the perfect fit and finding somebody that you gel with. And I think that's the thing I always say to my couples, I'm going to spend a lot of time asking you a lot of questions about yourselves and getting quite nosy. I want to know all the gossip about your story and talking to them exactly. It needs to be somebody that you click with. So I think that is so important. Are there any like skills that you think are particularly important to have? So you know, if you're looking for obviously, Punctuality is very important. But are there other things that you think actually, yeah, this is something that you need to be able to do if you're going to be a celebrant. I don't know. Actually, I have done a couple before with I actually thought that one of the celebrants that I had at one wedding was like a registrar. I really when they were reading out the vowels, it gave me the vibe of like an air hostess. I do now, the same kind of Spiel at the start of a flight, and I was like, Okay, there's no real like, energy here. There's no real like, everyone's just kind of like, okay, I think the reason that they've picked the celebrant is because they wanted to have a bit more fun about it and be a bit more sort of playful. So, yeah, I think that's quite important. Immediately. There's a lot of times that people have kind of written their own ceremony. Yeah, they've stuck very closely to, well, every wedding I've done before has done X, Y and Z, a similar script. And maybe that was like, through choice. But if you are trying to move away from that a little bit, you need someone that's got a bit more of a sort of like, yeah, like energy, and I think also bespoke is what we're you know, every couple, exactly like we said, is different. So every script should be there shouldn't be a one size fits all. So I think exactly like you say, having that bubbly energy, I guess that personality, something that like you say, it doesn't sound, sound like they're the hostess. I love that analogy. That's brilliant. So I guess, yeah, that enthusiasm, yeah, and so reassuring, yeah, for the couple. As well, that when you turn up, you're not just kind of dealing with, you know, a straight lace, yeah, okay. How's this gonna work? Yeah, that comes in morning. How you doing? Yeah, everything ready? And you do very often get people that are very nervous, yes, they've got lines to say, or they've written their own vows, and they're like, public speaking, it's a bit scary. So someone that is just going to be like, it's okay, yeah, reassure, walk you through it, and yeah, deal with all of that on the morning. There's a lot that can happen. As I say, people being late, people being very nervous. So absolutely no, that's because they're a good sort of presence, calm and influence. That's always a good thing. No, panickers. We can't have panickers. And what would you say are some of the key things to consider when working together as a planner and a celebrant. So how can we work together to give our couples the best experience? Like, how does that, you know, relationship work really well for you when you're working with a celebrant. Yeah. I mean, as I say, my the best thing for me is that we can speak beforehand, yeah. So the fact that I can come to you and say, like, right, this is the information that I've got about the wedding. Yeah, I'm expecting, you know, ceremonies at this time, and we might be handing out confetti at this point, and then we're going to do this at this point. So just checking that everything is we're all on the same page, which is, yeah, so just someone that is very like responsive to all of that is always very well, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Make sure that you know, you can check everything and a running order. I think that's something that I always do for every ceremony, whether they've got a planner or not. I send it to venues. I send it to photographers, videographers, because I think exactly like you've said, it's so important for everyone to know what's going on, and there's no surprises. So I think if you've got that communication, if I send a running order of my ceremony, you know exactly what's going to be happening, and you can check that it does match what you've got. Because otherwise it's like, oh, yeah, didn't you know that we're going to be doing this? And it's like, hang on, what? So yeah, I think that's really good. And just, I guess having that open working relationship is really important, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So let's talk about some of the differences between using a friend or a family member versus a trained celebrant. So obviously, I know you do a lot of weddings that are for people at their family homes, that kind of thing, and I know we've discussed before, sometimes they've chosen a friend or a family member to lead their ceremony, which I think is a great idea. I think it's really lovely to have that extra personality, exactly like we said, especially if you're using somewhere that is so meaning for you, especially if you're using somewhere that is so meaningful to you. But actually, I think for myself, the training is important because we learn about all elements of the ceremony, and a bit like we touched on earlier, we know what to do, but we also know what to do when things maybe, you know, don't quite happen. But let's have a, you know, a kind of a little chat about some of your experiences of where they've used friends and family members. Do you think that works well for the couple? Do you think you would recommend celebrants over friend or family members? Or do you think it's couples choice? Or just tell me a little bit about that. I think it's a really nice idea to get someone that you know involved in your wedding. And I understand why somebody would choose to do that, because it is so sort of sentimental. It's somebody that you really care about who's telling your story for you. I think that's really lovely, absolutely. And you know, you might have somebody that you really care about that hasn't particularly got a role in the day, so you try and bring them in. And I think it's a really lovely thing to do. However, I just think people need to be aware that, you know, like you say, you if they were to book you as a celebrant, you come with, you know, prepared for the timings and the extra kind of prep that goes in behind it. Yeah, it's lovely to have someone that can stand up and read the words for Yeah, yeah. But it's everything else that goes with that. So luckily, obviously, if you've got a coordinator or somebody at the venue who's there to help, they'll probably belong, yeah, they'll support a little bit. But that's something, I mean, for me personally, as like, the coordinator the ceremony, is the bit that I not get the most, like, anxious about, but there's so much happening in the shortest space of time. Yes, in those 30 minutes before everyone arrived, well before the ceremony starts, yeah, I've got guests coming in. I might have music to set up. Yeah, I've got, you know, one person say, the groom here, very nervous, very shaky, of your bride elsewhere. Yeah, bridesmaids on their way. There's a lot to kind of manage, yeah. And if you're not sort of used to dealing with all of that, and you're just literally ready to just go, Hello, as I say, yeah, you definitely need someone who's going to be like, Okay, I can tell you when they're on their way. Yeah, I'm going to start the music. This is the prompt for this. This is the prompt for that. So they need a lot more of that support. And of that support. So it is lovely when people do it, but yeah, you don't always get the extra sort of support around you to when you need it. So yeah, so it can be a little bit more reassuring when you have somebody involved. I'm like, Okay, now that they're here, they know what's going on. Yeah, they're ready. They can deal with it. And I always check in with them. And you know, we do a lot of stuff together, yeah, check things in before the ceremony, but after that, I'm like, okay, cool. You know what you're doing now? Yeah, exactly you can hand over and deliver doing what I was supposed to be doing. Absolutely, I think that's the thing, exactly like you said, I think it is a beautiful idea. It's a really meaningful way to involve somebody. But absolutely. Absolutely like we've spoken about. It's not just about standing there and reading out this script. It's it's about, you know, managing that ceremony space, managing what's happening within that space, liaising with your other suppliers, exactly like you said, the planners and music, I can't even speak today, the planners, the musicians, like, you know, dealing with everybody else, photographers, all those kind of things, being aware of what's happening also, obviously, when you get family members sometimes or friends sometimes, they're the pictures you see on Instagram with a kiss and the person stood right in the middle. That's what drives me crazy, because that's my number one bit of advice to all my students, make sure you move out the way. Yeah, absolutely. But I think as well, the thing that I find some of my students who are just learning to be celebrant, they might write a script and think, yeah, that's a half an hour ceremony. And then I ask them to go and read it aloud, and they come back to me and go, Wow, Laura is 10 minutes. And I go, yeah, there's a lot more involved to creating a ceremony and crafting a ceremony. And that's obviously something that you learn when you study all the different elements and what's included. So I think it is a fantastic idea. And there's a lot of celebrants now who have gone on to train, because that's how they first, you know, experience being a celebrant. They did a friend or a family member ceremony. So I think it is beautiful, and it is, you know, it's got its it's got its place. But I think absolutely, like you've said for yourself, as another supplier for the couple, you know that you're in safe hands if you're with somebody that's qualified and knows what they're doing. And I think as well, something that we always make sure that we cover in the courses is how to handle any problems that do come up, like, what do you do? And you know, how are you going to manage that? So I think that is something as well to consider. And actually, friends and family members can absolutely get involved in other ways. If you are still using a celebrant, yeah, and you know, get them involved in parts of the ceremony in different ways. But I think, exactly like you say, just having that extra level of professionalism probably makes you think, okay, yeah, it's all right. I know that we're in safe hands. Yeah, if you've done it 100 times before, I know that everything's gonna be okay. Absolutely, you know you're fine. You can be but say, with everything, isn't it? It's like, for example, my own wedding, we had my husband's cousin made our cake for us, and it was absolutely beautiful, but he came and he did it all on the day, and he set it up, but it wasn't something that he did as a business. Whereas, if we'd chosen somebody that makes cakes as a business, obviously there's all those extra level of things that they would have known about and been able to sort out and everything like that. And we had buttercream in July, which was probably not okay decision anyway. Well, you know, I remember them freaking out when he got there because the venue were like, Oh, we haven't, like, saved fridge space and things like that. Whereas a professional, they'd have done all that, they're the sort of things that they use. Yeah, it's just all those little things, isn't it? It's a really lovely touch. And I do think it's a great idea. And I would never say don't do it, but I just think, you know the difference, if you're using somebody that is trained, they've gone through that training, and they've got that extra level to feel confident, I think, when they're going in to own that ceremony space. Yeah, absolutely. And it's such an important part of Yeah, yeah. You want it to go well, you want it to go smoothly? Yeah, absolutely. And the thing exactly, like you said, that's really the reason we're there, like, for the actual ceremony, celebrating them, actually coming together. So, yeah, 100% so Lindsay, finally, before we finish, this is a question that I ask all of the guests on the podcast. As a planner, what's your one piece of advice for anyone considering becoming a celebrant? I would say, be aware. Oh, no, let's I would just say, you know, I, I'm very aware that there are lots of celebrants already that exist. And I don't know whether, because I'm a wedding planner, but my inbox is always getting Oh, I can imagine different suppliers being like, tell them about me. Tell them about me. Yeah. And new celebrants popping up every single day, which actually, I think is really lovely, yeah? I think the fact that more people know, yeah, celebrant ceremonies are an option absolutely around from all that sort of stuff is amazing, and the more celebrants there are, the more likely there is that there's a good fit for them. And you're not just going with Yeah, find on Google, yeah, exactly. But I just think it's quite important to know that there are lots of options out there. And maybe, maybe you need something that kind of sets you apart from everybody else. Maybe you need to know what kind of weddings you like to do. Are you more of an outdoorsy person? Are you the TP Marky person? Are you more of an alternative sort of style? You know, I think you get that with a lot of suppliers you kind of, you need to almost find your niche, yeah, like, these are my people, yeah. Like to do absolutely and for me as a wedding planner, that can be quite hard, because I'm like, I'm happy to do any wedding. I love all weddings, all people, whatever it looks like. But knowing that you have your little space, that you're like, I'm an expert in this. This is what you know. If this is what you're going for, I know it inside out, you know, total reassurance on it. Maybe that's a similar sort of thing. You know, find something that you are good at, find something that you enjoy, find the right sorts of couples that you want to work with, and then that's who you're going to attract, yeah? And that's what's going to work for you, yeah? Because there are a lot out there, but it is nice to have a variety of different things and just kind of see what direction you want to go in with it. I think. Absolutely. I think that is great advice. I think finding your USP, your niche, what makes you special, what makes you stand out, is so, so important. Because exactly like you said, planners especially, I can imagine you get inundated with so many suppliers who just want, you know, to be recommended. Of course they do, but it's why? Well, why should I, why should I put you forward? What makes you special? Why are you the right person for this? And I think exactly like you said, the more people that are training as celebrants, the more actually awareness is growing. There's a lot more couples choosing celebrant ceremonies because they're experiencing them because there are more celebrants. So the more of us there are, the more of us are flying the flag for celebrant ceremonies, educating people all the time, venues, you know, couples, that kind of thing. And I think that is such a good point that actually, where do you fit in that finding out where you fit, and that's such a good piece of advice. I think what it is that makes you special and what makes you stand out to those kind of future couples and things, I think that's absolutely brilliant. And I think as well, it's I always my advice for my students when they're training, and that's one of their worries, like, oh, but there might be, you know, loads of celebrants near me. How am I going to stand out? And I say, Well, look at photographers, look at cake makers, look at florists. Like there's loads of them. There's more, there's more photographers in the country than celebrants. So, but it doesn't mean that there's not enough work to go around. There's space for everybody, absolutely. So I think it's finding where you fit. And I think that's a brilliant piece of advice, yeah. And I think when you when you know what it is that you want to do, yeah, like you're not sort of forcing it, then you're not, you know, you just find your thing, and you Yeah, absolutely, yeah, it is. And I think that's the thing that we all learn, don't we? As wedding suppliers, like, as time goes on, you do find your couples, and you find the right people for you, and you have those conversations, you go, yeah, that's, that's my vibe, like I'm the right person for them. And I think when you first start, it can be very overwhelming to go, Yeah, I just want to do it all. I want to do every wedding, any, any wedding I can book, I'll do. And then actually, as time goes on, you refine that, and you work out, who are you best for, and who can you give like, an unforgettable day to? Yeah, yeah. And I think once you've done, like, a few because of having the training, and you've done a few ceremonies and that kind of thing, you you know what your thing is. You know your experience that's that's the benefit of having someone that has that experience behind them, that because they've done it before, they know what works and what? Yeah, absolutely. They know this is my thing. Maybe this is not for you. Yeah, I always encourage couples to choose all their suppliers based on, like, who is a good fit for you, what works with the you know, the venue, the style that you're going for, yeah. So when you find the right person that kind of fits into that, it's, yeah, that's the way you need to go. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you, Lindsay. Honestly, you've been a fabulous guest. So where can we find you? Lindsay, what's the she? Wedding Planner, everywhere, everywhere. I don't even know her. Amazing. That's great. We'll just look for you everywhere. Worcestershire wedding planet, well, thank you so much for coming on beyond the ceremony. It's been lovely to chat with you, and great success for 2025 Thank you. You too.