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Ms. Marvel 10: Cry Murder, Cry M.O.D.O.K! With Andrew Drilon, Juan Ponce, and Josh Trujillo! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Mulk & Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
0:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I am so happy to have three of my, when I say oldest, I mean, I've known you all a long time, I've just not a reference to age by any means.
0:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So some of my oldest gray walk-in friends are all here back in a tour to force.
0:28
[SPEAKER_03]: For our second appearance of Deathbird today, this will be coming out the third week of October on the show.
0:33
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be reviewing in the latter half, Ms. Marvel number 10, which is a crazy Carol Danvers vs. Deathbird and Motoc, and also Blue and Yellow AMAgence.
0:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll get there in the latter half.
0:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thrilled to welcome my three guests.
0:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me have you each introduce yourselves with your name and pronouns.
0:54
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, welcome Juan Ponce back to the show.
0:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Juan, it's been so long.
0:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And what do you have in common with Carol Danvers?
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everyone.
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Juan Ponce.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: My pronouns are he and I'm a comic book writer.
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You might know me maybe from my latest mini series, Red Wing in the Penn and State.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And what do I have in common with Carol Danvers?
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a hard time.
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: At least right now in this issue.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like here, I also have a hard time recalling things.
1:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she has some weird identity and like it's she was going on throughout all of this.
1:26
[SPEAKER_03]: She's very scattered than this busy woman in this issue.
1:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me also welcome Andrew Drillan back to the show.
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew lovely to see you and what do you have in common with death bird?
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, thank you.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me here.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so my name's Adir Jolon.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a Filipino cartoonist based in New York.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I am doing a lot of art duties for various comics lately.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Most recently, I just finished a run on Aquaman for DC Go with Josh Trujillo, my favorite writer.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I have in common with Deathbird?
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wish I had her fierce looks, but I would say I feel quite as relentless as she is in this issue.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mean admire that about her.
2:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you have berserker rages Andrew.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, oh my god, when I can't get a drawing right, you should see me and the privacy of my own rule.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a whirlwind, you know.
2:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And look, it's Andrew Drulland's favorite writer, Joshua Heo is here as well.
2:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Joshua.
2:27
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you have in common with Motoc?
2:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew I was going to get Motoc, I knew it.
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: What have I, so I'm just your hero.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: He, him, based on Los Angeles, what do I have in common with that?
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Giant had, you know, I think he can't, he can't give certain things up.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think we've all been there before.
2:45
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, he's a, he gets in his own way sometimes.
2:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Singularly obsessed.
2:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you've ever seen that Motoc animated series, you will love this character forever.
2:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And always, right, this is, this is great.
2:56
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to start by talking about birds.
3:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Do any of you have a favorite bird or a scary encounter with a bird in the wild?
3:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Any birds that freak you out?
3:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever comes up here is great.
3:10
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a death bird here.
3:11
[SPEAKER_03]: What of our many many avian-themed characters in the X-Men?
3:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the most prominent outside of Angel and or Beek, maybe?
3:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this counts, but my car got totaled once while it was parked.
3:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as it was getting towed away, all of these crows came from around the neighborhood to watch the car get towed away.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, this is so weird.
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are they all staring at this car?
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The car dropped all these shiny metal chunks as it got towed away and the crows descended on it.
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And they all wanted a piece of the shining stuff for themselves.
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's my, that's my, that's my grocery.
3:46
[SPEAKER_03]: The crows have eyes that makes me think of a of a shit's creek.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's smart they're enterprising, right?
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Does everyone thinks it's going to be like the lawyers the chase you would chase the ambulances, but the crows that changed the rent.
3:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That chased the wrecked cars of one.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, given recent events, I read folk in this now my favorite bird.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually, I forget actually red wings exactly.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, I'm a smurf.
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: She taught me a lot about.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I read Wingsurgeon, but so I'm my bird story, so right here in six flags in San of California, one time I was heading towards the ride and I just felt like there's not jumping the back of my head and then I look and there's just this little baby bird kind of thing and it's just like flying like a lunatune style can't even keep going left and right swaying and I look to the guy behind me, he's like, I saw everything, it's just this dove in, I don't know
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went in the ride with a nice little little welcome a bird.
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's my bird story.
4:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm going to tell my bird story quickly.
4:48
[SPEAKER_03]: This is, uh, I have lots of bird stories.
4:50
[SPEAKER_03]: When I was 12, we had in a pine tree outside our house, a nest of birds that had hatched.
4:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like too close to our house.
4:58
[SPEAKER_03]: and the black birds like the mother and father who were like trying to protect their babies presumably would dive bomb us out of the tree whenever we'd like leave our house to go to school they'd come out and like scrape our heads with their it was like Alfred Hitchcock craziness I think my mom had someone come over and kill the birds which made me really sad later but I didn't witness the death but we got like hitting the head several times and then it started hitting like neighborhood kids so I think like something had to be done right but yeah it was kind of crazy uh Andrew do you have a crazy bird story?
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, I have a death bird story actually, that's quite formative.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So, warning to sensitive viewers, there's some, this is a dark-ish story, but I was six years old, went to my school fair with my twin brother and we played those games, like, like, hit throw the darts on the balloon and all that stuff.
5:49
[SPEAKER_00]: We won these tiny chicks and I absolutely fell in love with my chick and my twin brother also fell in love with his little chick and we came home and our mom refused to let us keep the chicks in the house so the chicks were kept with my grandfather who grew up in a real town around fishermen and farmers.
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the chicks stayed there in a little pen, where they over the course of just a few months, they grew quite to full, I guess teenage chick hide.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: One family Sunday lunch, I walk outside with my twin brother, my grandfather calls us over to the pen and says, let me show you what we're having for lunch.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He basically decapitates.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Both full-grown chicks, chickens now in front of myself and my brother to make it worse.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: He holds the body of the chicken, which is still sort of like, you know, it's legs are moving, right?
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Point it at us and basically let's go.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And the headless chicken with blood spreading out
7:04
[SPEAKER_00]: six years old screaming my grandfather who again, you know, he grew up poor.
7:09
[SPEAKER_00]: He was in a a fishing community and like a farming thing.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: This was so funny to him.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He was just like absolutely like, you know.
7:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, I vividly remember that moment because I did not know as a child that even had less a bird will still keep running and it was the death bird of my youth, which I think about when I think about death bird in this issue because I bet you even if her head was cut off in this battle with Miss Marvel, she would still keep fighting.
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: She acts like a chicken with his head cut off sometimes.
7:48
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some truth to that phrase.
7:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
7:51
[SPEAKER_03]: What a crazy story.
7:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for sharing your traumas with the therapist on the podcast.
7:58
[SPEAKER_03]: The the deathboard stuff is crazy.
8:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about characters that fly for just a minute And this is an interesting character death bird kind of takes on it and by the way if you noticed it's death Hiphon bird at the beginning.
8:09
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a hyphen in the middle of the name So death Hiphon bird takes on real avian characteristic She's a literal bird woman, which separates her from a lot of characters like the vulture who put on like winged costumes or the Angel or red raven who have the wings growing out of their back
8:26
[SPEAKER_03]: or Hawkman and Hawkgirl have the same kind of thing, right?
8:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Writing a character with wings is crazy when you're writing them against another character, like Captain Marvel or Miss Marvel, who fly around more like Superman style, right?
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: They just kind of swim through the air, like Rogue does.
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You've all written characters that fly in kind of unique ways,
8:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, Juan, I'm excited actually to hear you talk about your work with Redwing, who's such an interesting character to get the focus.
8:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Redwing being the Falcon familiar of Sam Wilson, who is either Falcon or Captain America.
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes Redwing hangs out with, uh, who's that other Falcon guy.
9:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, oh, I just lost his name.
9:04
[SPEAKER_03]: The one that actually looks like a Falcon.
9:09
[SPEAKER_03]: He has some vampire powers, maybe.
9:11
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been part of the set of benders.
9:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to talk about your work with Red Wing and what it was like seeing the world through his eyes?
9:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like the Red Wing, it was pretty cool because it's like at the end of the day, yes, and yes, he is like hard vampire.
9:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so, so keen, so that's the, and some people were like, where's the vampire aspect?
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's it's there, you know what I mean?
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't make it a word, but he's still vampire.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, right, it was really cool because he is still like a small bird.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's got a lot of courage, but just like any disadvantages of like a small Falcon bird, it's going to come up like he's not like a huge Falcon.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not like a big eagle.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I include it's like in my story in Eagle that he admires, because it's like this big bird with so much strength.
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And Red Wing, you know, he is technically a hunter, but he is a small bird.
9:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the whole idea of like the little guy versus the big guy.
10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, kind of like, okay, what kind of troubles could redwing when into and turns out a lot, because everything's kind of difficult for him, waits hard for him.
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you give him any villain.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's one on one.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If he has to use a lot of his intelligence and, you know, since I read a lot of redwing in the past, I think that he has this leader aspect, this confidence about him.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I use that to carry the character to have this like, okay, I'm small, but I can do things.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it was especially since he's with Sam,
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He sees it that way as well.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I have to step it up for Sam.
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to be this brave little bird.
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was, yeah, it was really fun to write them.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I, yeah, I just put like, lunitunes and Simpsons, like a lot of thinking into that for a situation.
10:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is excellent.
10:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I, the, the, the interesting piece of like picturing how this character moves or views the world or sees things.
10:53
[SPEAKER_03]: That's an interesting challenge for that type of perspective.
10:56
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's a very fun infinity comic.
10:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed.
10:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And hey everybody, if you didn't know Andrew Drilan is having a hot girl summer every summer uh, Edward, do you want to talk about working with winged characters and particularly hot girl?
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't actually get to do much hot girl.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We had one winged character in her story and you know, I had a story in the recent hot girl summer with Winchester, we came back to our favorite boy, bunker.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: the teen titan who could.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a big spectacular celebration of a lot of the LGBTQ superheroes in the DC world.
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had a bunch of characters in there including Natasha Irons, Tim Drake, Fricking Jackson High, of course, or Aquaman.
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And a few wing characters like Aery and Jo Mullen, Green Lantern,
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was fun.
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the whole wonderful thing about that story that we recently was being able to cram so many characters and cameos into the background trying to do our best with like the George Perez style format of it.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And our main villain was Psycho Pirate, who obviously has like a very big connection with George Perez.
12:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really grateful for flying characters
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: all the way to the horizon, you can always throw a flying character into an empty space up there because they'll just get into position and kind of help fill out the composition.
12:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh, you've written lots of flying characters, but I want to focus a little on blue beetle and then maybe the human torch, which is one you got to do more research with planted of the apes in your FF crossover.
12:42
[SPEAKER_03]: What's it like for you writing flying characters.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting.
12:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because it's like, you have to when they do five sequences, you kind of have to figure out the choreography, even though they're just kind of flying around someone or understand one.
12:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, how do you make that, that's some of the artists job, but also it's us coming up with as writers coming up with situations.
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: where the flying feels dynamic, right?
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I work in video games and the reason there've never been a good Superman video game is because the flying's really boring.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not as exciting or tactile as swinging around or as dynamic.
13:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you've got to come up with ways to make that flying very exciting, otherwise it kind of feels waitless.
13:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's kind of, but with him, with him, towards the end of this.
13:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I guess so.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And then with with him and towards, he's interesting too, because he case burning and destroying everything that he could potentially do, given that he's on fire.
13:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I wrote him for a planet of the apes, he was spoilers.
13:32
[SPEAKER_02]: D-powered for some of it.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So when he finally does play him on, if I hope it feels earned for the fans out there.
13:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, Andrew, when you're drawing, do you enjoy drawing a pair of wings?
13:41
[SPEAKER_03]: They seem like a pain in the ass.
13:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like Captain America's chain mail, wings with all those like little feathers.
13:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to zoom in on it.
13:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have, uh, I have been afflicted with, um, the horror backweigh.
13:53
[SPEAKER_00]: or a fear of empty spaces.
13:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when I see something like a bird swing, which has a lot of potential details in it, I really get obsessed and I freaking love them.
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I love doing it.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that the wings, the feathers in particular can make a pattern and move in a certain flow.
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you pull up a lot of references, there's actually a really cool structure to it that we often just kind of summarize in our heads.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's only when you really get down to like drawing it out that you realize, oh my gosh, this is such a beautiful thing that you could really waste a lot of time on and like make your deadline put a deadline in danger, but it's a wonderful thing to get into and I love drawing wings.
14:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Does Aquilad fly?
14:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Aquilad, do those characters fly?
14:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Aquilad doesn't fly, but we've kind of cheated him using his hydrokinesis to like, purples as a propulsion mechanism.
14:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Name or a flies?
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Name or a fly?
14:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Wing, wing, wing, wing, yeah.
14:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I know my Marvel shit always.
14:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know my DC shit.
14:58
[SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to a character like Blue Beetle or Nova like Sam Alexander Nova the way they fly and move is such a key part and flight is such a big part of their stories Do you want to talk about using flight with characters like that who I don't know I almost see Sam Alexander is more like a desperate flyer somehow He's like always gonna like I gotta get there
15:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's like, for teen heroes in particular, the excitement is like, you're not old enough to drive, but now you can fly.
15:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
15:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like that just a natural great starting place to kind of put these characters as like, but they are just finally in charge of their own under a show to speak, whether it be socially or whatever.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's always really cool to have those like heroes coming into their own moments or like finding their power.
15:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think flights just a great way to manifest that we do a little bit of that in my know of a story, but I don't want to spoil it too much in what.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Josh now that yeah, it's actually really good like the whole idea of like flying and then being these young heroes and coming into their own as they like gain this control over the whole flighting, especially like someone like Nova, I mean we think about it.
16:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I just hit me right now, sorry.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He is his young character coming into adulthood, essentially, and it's like, he has this, like, he travels so fast.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of power.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And even, like, I would say different from the other Nova is that his helmet gives them the world wind, like, like, a lot of power for a young kid.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So it, there's something to it, like, especially, like, when it comes to flying, like, he's, he's across pretty far place.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like he's a millennium Falcon, but again, it's a kid.
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somebody that has to learn to use this power responsibly.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah,
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just pretty much said a way better and cooler.
16:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been thinking a lot about white choreography and when you think about characters flying and the way they move, Carol Denver's moves very differently through the air than deathbird does.
16:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Cannonball moves differently than angel, rogue moves different than storm, it's a beautiful thing to kind of think of how the characters move and how they engage in combat.
16:55
[SPEAKER_03]: We have an
16:55
[SPEAKER_03]: epic fight between Carol Danbers and Deathbird in this issue, they started it in the last one and it's excellent in this one as well.
17:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Ms. Marvel number nine gives us two women fighting each other on a comic book cover in a book that's titled for women.
17:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So like here's a book that passes the Bechtel test for once and it's like 1977.
17:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you guys fans of 70s Ms. Marvel?
17:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you're familiar with this title at all, it's rad.
17:20
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really fun.
17:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my first Miss Mar, 70's Miss Marble.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I've ever read.
17:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's really fun because it's got one of my favorite writers Chris Claremont on it.
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So the rhythms were familiar even if the character in their backstory wasn't so much so.
17:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Chris brings both of these characters into his X-Men later, you know, Carol and deathbird.
17:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, my experience with Miss Marvel from the 70s like I've read here and there, but yeah, this was like, I was like a refresher and I was like, yeah, this is this pretty rad.
17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: My yeah, I didn't enjoy it.
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the whole like, um,
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: what was your magazine called woman magazine woman magazine woman magazine I like I like I like all that I like I love all that I love that little the mellow drama stuff on the side like that they need people I lived with I I kind of wish we like stayed there for a little longer.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of fun.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved a lot of those aspects of those comics.
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
18:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think this was my first solo Miss Marvel 70s comic.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I read the the runs in the 2000s and I follow her sent the Jamie McKelvie redesign, but it reminded me a lot kind of the beats of the dazzler series that I believe is a few years after this, when she had her solo title, as very much kind of like I don't know there's kind of this like a little bit of like low key women's lip element going on.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really interesting to see like an empowered female hero would be allowed to mess up, but in like kind of like a humanizing way and not like your sidekick kind of way.
18:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So this I gave a little bit of this preamble for those that heard my interview with Paul Jenkins in Annie and Asenti when we reviewed Miss Marvel number one, but Marvel in the early 70s tried to publish a couple different comics that were by women for women.
18:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So there were female writers writing female characters and all of the comics only lasted just a few issues.
19:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It was night nurse, the cat, and shan of the she double.
19:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of Marvel's next run of trying to make female heroes work.
19:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Their male writers moving in and out of the books, but Miss Marvel is one of them.
19:18
[SPEAKER_03]: She's very much on the ride, writing the wave of like second wave
19:21
[SPEAKER_03]: feminism, Gloria Steinem, and you know the song I am woman by Helen Ready and all the stuff that's going on in the late 1970s or mid 70s.
19:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Ms. Magazine is being published to some critical acclaim at this time.
19:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And Carol is based off of and kind of attribute to a lot of the feminism that comes before her.
19:41
[SPEAKER_03]: There's one other character that has a female lead title in this era, anyone know?
19:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spider woman, Jessica Drew spider woman, which is also just an iconic run of delicious 70s comics.
19:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So these characters get worked on by Claremont, often on throughout the years, and this title is really, really fun.
19:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol's mostly been fighting a lot of really, I don't know, penis themed men, like the scorpion and like guys that shoot shit out of their head, and you know, it's just cringes.
20:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Crazy characters, she's fighting the patriarchy, and there's a lot going on in her title where we'll kind of set up what's happening for her character now Are all of you fans of the Shiar the Shiar becomes such an enormous part of the X-Men world?
20:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Claremont around this time is just seating
20:23
[SPEAKER_03]: The Phoenix Force with Jean Grey, LaLondra is like Princess Leia in her way to Earth to find Xavier's help, so he's slowly building the Empire as Cacromes doing all those crazy designs and deathbird kind of shoots out of nowhere and then later gets connected to the Shiar.
20:39
[SPEAKER_03]: What was your first Xiar experience and do you love these characters?
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, probably 90s, uh, X man probably Scott Lubedale, Joe Madurera, I, I vividly remember this beautiful shot of, um, the she are, uh, Llandra in particular, um, uh, drawn by Joe Madur, uh, I can't give the issue or the, um, uh, exact era, but,
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I always thought their design was so striking, particularly how their hair turns into these, like, you know, triangular, like feather, like shapes.
21:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a beautiful silhouette and makes them very distinct as a design.
21:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll be honest, like, that was, yes, I know that she are in a bread on, but I've never really gotten into them like that.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the, in the animated series
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's like the biggest I got into it and yeah, of course I ran into them in the recent comics, but yeah, I be honest Yeah, she are like kind of like I'm aware of them, but I don't really dig into them red wing would love them
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think my first exposure was probably the animated series, like a lot of people around my age was seeing the Laundra and the Imperial Guard.
21:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's finding them in comics later.
21:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I discovered the Legion of Superheroes in comic before I discovered the Shiar.
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when I saw the Imperial Guard, I kind of quickly surmised that they were in parallel conversation because it seems like the Imperial Guard of the Shiar are designed modeled after the Legion of Superheroes.
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But in an in a loving way, I'm sure.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, these kind of spacey, futuristic societies all so share kind of like a common language.
22:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, literally every one of those imperial guard characters is based off of a Legion of Superheroes character.
22:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a direct reference for each one.
22:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's actually entirely true.
22:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, setting up this series a little bit.
22:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to read just Ms. Marvel number 10, which is Crymodok, Crymurder.
22:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Previously in Ms. Marvel, I'm
22:39
[SPEAKER_03]: While handling the misogyny of Jane J. Jonah Jameson her boss, it's very the Mary Tyler Moore show for those of you that may have ever seen that in the 1970s.
22:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol's also the feminist superhero Miz Marvel, and her most recent adventure was her battling the threat of death.
22:54
[SPEAKER_03]: hyphen bird, a feathered alien warrior woman who's working on earth for modach.
22:59
[SPEAKER_03]: In this appearance, Deathbird does not have the purple mask over her face, but she does have this kind of feathered suit on, but it's also just her feathers.
23:08
[SPEAKER_03]: We learned she was kind of an avian off-shoot kind of a early evolutionary trend born to her family, almost kind of making her a mutant in the Shia royal family line, which is really interesting.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbird also has these little like bracelets,
23:22
[SPEAKER_03]: that she can like click pieces of them together to make different kinds of jablins, almost like she's Hawkeye with trick arrows.
23:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the thing that only works for her and this is the first few appearances.
23:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And we see her use that a little bit here.
23:34
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't really know what her deal is except that she's working for Motoc.
23:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Motoc has recently been ousted as the leader
23:42
[SPEAKER_03]: and aim who wear the yellow clad beekeeper suits.
23:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Mothok wants his own group, so he forms a different group and makes them all dressed in baby blue.
23:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And now they're having a coup on the original aim.
23:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's blue versus yellow and deathbird.
23:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbird is there.
23:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And the big aim base is in a department store, which is the scene of our battle today.
24:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's our setup.
24:04
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be jumping into Marlomis Marble number 10 published in October 1977 by Chris Claremont with Shot Sabu Shema on Pencil's Tom Palmer on Inks, Phil Rachel's Rachel Sun on Colors, John Costanza on Letters and Archie Goodwin is the editor.
24:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Chris Claremont loves the fight in a mall.
24:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew, do you want to talk about this cover and your thoughts on Salbu Shema's pencils throughout this?
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I believe the credit say that it's Salbu Shema, um, inked by Tom Palmer, right?
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
24:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The covers create.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that it zones in on the action immediately.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, you have the two the figure of Miss Marvel punching out modox as, like the main eye catching element in our cover.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, really thoughtfully, Bu Shema puts so many details and characters.
24:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a full department store drawn out at the bottom of the panel.
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 whole figures down there, including in the very back death bird.
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's all composed very well, one point perspective, type piece, and it really functions well.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I really think Marvel comics at this time, you know, there's a sense of
25:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You know reading this, you know, I'm going to go a little bit into the issue, but like reading this issue and looking at the art to everything was so much more compressed back then you really could feel like they were trying to get so much art and story and you know moment into the issue on a page by page basis and you feel the same way with the cover when you look at it now it's it's busy but in a nice way.
25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So the blurb inside, Carol Danvers, a woman who had it made until the day radiation from an exploding alien machine, gave her the skills and powers of a crey warrior, plus an uncanny 7th sense, transforming a human woman into a heroine.
25:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And the way they're writing Ms. Marvel here, it's kind of like if you guys remember the old Captain Marvel stories with Rick Jones, like whenever they've clicked their bracelets, they'd change places.
26:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like Linda Carter wonder woman spin it around.
26:07
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're kind of writing Carol and Ms. Marvel is too distinct identities living in the same body, which leads to the question of rogue absorbing Carol out, or Ms. Marvel out of Carol, and like, which parts of that got amended for all of this?
26:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh, did you have thoughts on kind of that dual identity, or even the seventh sense that we see referenced for this character, which is very much a play on women's intuition?
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I was a little, I think I forgot the duality of Ms. Marvel and Carol of being like kind of distinct in this way and almost feels like a little bit of a throwback to maybe like 60s comics or even earlier than that is like, but just because I think of care everyone knows who Carol is now, right?
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like she's Carol Danvers as much as as Captain Marvel.
26:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's interesting to see this earlier era for her.
26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I do kind of love her ponytail and glasses look though.
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure she doesn't actually need glasses, but I would recommend she wear them.
26:59
[SPEAKER_02]: They look cool on her.
27:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, my argument is that Death Bird here has the voice of Carol Kane, who everyone might know from like Taxi or the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.
27:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this actress.
27:10
[SPEAKER_03]: She was alive in the 70s.
27:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to see her in like a Barberella movie as Death Bird in this era.
27:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It would be amazing.
27:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to remind my listeners, Death Bird's in my top five favorite villains.
27:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this character.
27:22
[SPEAKER_03]: She's truly one of my true favorites.
27:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So we open on a giant action scene, Carol is in her civilian clothes, which are still super fashionable.
27:31
[SPEAKER_03]: She looks amazing.
27:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And death bird is screaming as they attack the department store.
27:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Agents of Aim modak has returned to take back that which is rightfully his control of advanced idea mechanics.
27:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And any of you who are foolish enough to resist will die.
27:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol is on the run and modak sends death bird, aphor.
27:51
[SPEAKER_03]: her.
27:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we see deathbird form a new javolin.
27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But this one comes together in a sharp golden point and makes the sound effect snicked before it is thrown.
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: This is crazy.
28:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Juan, did you have thoughts on deathbirds purple face mask or her cool golden javolin?
28:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, I think she was on.
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I really liked deathbird.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I like their, I like their whole look.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I like, and obviously like her like,
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Coming at you like a chicken window head like she's relentless and like yeah, like the whole like I love the hair I love just and you have a little things at the end of the wings those are really great and what thing about her is also and this they're from the costume but I like what we supposed to have a little bit from the very beginning a little bit of
28:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting it towards her like something there's always these hints that something's not fully there like and I mean we get more into it as the issue goes on But yeah, I yeah, I already dug her she's dropping little hints that she comes from a place called the airy and That she's not a human and the like the caption box is like we'll pick this up later I just will take a few years, but but they'll eventually connect her to this.
28:55
[SPEAKER_03]: She are just you want to talk about this first page or we're not on the first page But the first page where we see them in the fight sequence
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll get to the meat of it first, I guess, but yeah, so deathbird assembles her javelin.
29:07
[SPEAKER_02]: She launches it at Carol, who narrowly misses it.
29:10
[SPEAKER_02]: She's kind of deciding whether or not she's going to transform.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like we're in the early stages of that.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But what caught me in the story was the use of snicked as the sound effect for the javelin appearing.
29:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you like a deathbird purple face mask care?
29:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so weird.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love it.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the weirdness of the She-R is something we just need to run into a full, fulfilled.
29:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Carol's very much like, I could change to Ms. Marvel, but why would I do that?
29:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a woman all my own, I have my own skills and my own training, which I, you know, it's great.
29:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbird is impressed by her lord of the skies.
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm impressed warrior.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Truly, you are a foe worthy of the Ari's champion.
29:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Carol changes into Miss Marvel.
29:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It says, I am happening death, hyphen bird.
29:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're fighting each other.
29:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a very even match.
29:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And it gets kind of savage.
29:58
[SPEAKER_03]: They're slamming into each other.
30:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of deadly death bird gets her claws out and is slashing with a sash sound effect.
30:06
[SPEAKER_03]: She calls Carol a hatchling.
30:08
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of epic and it's too women again fighting each other, which is just not something we get to see at this caliber and Marvel comics in this era very often.
30:17
[SPEAKER_03]: We do see Deathbird claiming to be an alien at one point with a caption box that says they'll follow up on that later.
30:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we cut over to Motoc.
30:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew, would you enjoy drawing Motoc?
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a wild.
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, Modoc is probably one of my favorite character designs and Marvel comics.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Very distinct, nothing quite like him, yeah.
30:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say it's really weird seeing him with Deathbird this way.
30:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because my experience of Deathbird is like in the X-Men comics where you can see her face or her Helm looks very different here.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Standing next to Modoc, she looks a bit like that
31:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you remember him, but it's the same color scheme, it's purple, also wing, but he's mat winged, and also with these like wings coming out of the head, and almost the same silhouette.
31:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of uncanny to see Deathbird this way, and I'm glad they moved on from this costume, but it's a really a cool, weird version of her I'd never seen before.
31:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And Maudak is a classic,
31:27
[SPEAKER_03]: She yells to Carol during the fight.
31:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I was born to course the winds.
31:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll never fall to a dirt grubbing human.
31:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So interesting set up.
31:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, Motok is fighting the leader of the other aim.
31:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So the guy that's running the yellow aim is also the manager of the Aldens department store.
31:45
[UNKNOWN]: But they're fighting.
31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's, you know, he's doing both jobs at once.
31:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And Motok has his little baby blue aim agents.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I didn't particularly bother me or anything as much as the the department store overhead that's just such an absurd concept and I love it with all my heart.
32:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I more based more evil bases need to be in like reused commercial spaces as opposed to like military bunkers.
32:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Deathbird is using her javolin beams.
32:16
[SPEAKER_03]: They are fighting through the floor.
32:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Motoc is firing off cannons.
32:20
[SPEAKER_03]: People are getting shot.
32:21
[SPEAKER_03]: There are cops involved.
32:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's all over the place.
32:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And Motoc is primarily there to steal a particular missile that he needs for a plan of his.
32:32
[SPEAKER_03]: The missile is golden.
32:33
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an ICBM.
32:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So, he shoots the department's storehead.
32:40
[SPEAKER_03]: With this cassette programming deck, the Missile 2 is mine.
32:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has to insert a cassette tape to get the Missile in his control.
32:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll call back to 1977 everybody.
32:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you guys miss cassette tapes?
32:55
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll go Josh Andrew and then Juan.
32:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember them quite vividly.
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: A big treat was pressing play and fast forward at the same time and it'd make a super sped up.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You could make a sound like Alvin and ship mugs were performing any song you wanted and for your old Josh loved it.
33:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a great bed.
33:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that you could stick your finger into these little gears inside the cassette tape and rolled them back and forth and school is always a side in the side me, you know, I think that's a cool metaphor for something.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then yeah, the whole finger thing I'd love to do that was like kind of something they're a cute about that.
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of my listeners just got on Google and said, what is a cassette tape?
33:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And now they can learn for the first time.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and they were probably, these were probably eight track tapes, right?
33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: These probably weren't even regular cassette tapes that we know from the 80s.
33:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks more like a VCR, what he's in.
33:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, Mona has the missile, so now they have to escape.
33:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbird has like a gas javelin, it's like Hawkeye's trick arrows, so she's able to get Miss Marvel off her tail long enough to get away.
33:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol wakes up the cops are there.
34:01
[SPEAKER_03]: She has to fight the aim agents.
34:04
[SPEAKER_03]: She compares herself to a supernova and then she learns more information about mutt, motoc, and the stolen missile are doing.
34:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of covering some of this quickly.
34:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you guys have thoughts you want to point out or anything that I kind of skipped over in this kind of brief or summary?
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I just want to bring up that, um, I've been recently reading a lot of evaluations for U.S. Avengers and the current Venom run with, with Mary Jane Venom, and Modok stars in them, and Modok is always either leading aim or fighting aim for some reason.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: He has like a constant, like love hate relationship with this organization of like
34:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really funny to see that all the way back in the 70s, he's already added.
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I thought it was odd, because this cop is running away and gets shot by what a stun blaster.
34:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But then this guy with the stun blaster gets shot by a cop.
35:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, that's unusual because in superhero comics, the cops will never hate anything.
35:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
35:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's so weird that this one random guy like got to hit it.
35:10
[SPEAKER_03]: with some of the A-majans pretending to be cops, did I get that vibe, right?
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wait, maybe.
35:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, I think he's a real cop, he calls in for help.
35:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a customer, an A-majans, the A-majans, pretends to be a customer.
35:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he has a particularly expository opening line.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what we need to spend the lunch break shopping for the wife?
35:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Every straight man has to justify why he's in the department store, right exactly.
35:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to ask your opinion, Juan, if you want to take this one first on Carol's hair versus Miss Marvel's hair.
35:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So Carol has the long flowing yellow hair, but then when she changes bodies, it's like this feathered short, like, fairer faucet do.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're both fabulous, not that, but that opening title page.
35:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fierce.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the way the hair just blows like that.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That I also do love Miss Marvels.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: To be honest, yes, it's that fair facet look, but it goes so well with that costume and that like scarf she's got going.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But I had to have to admit, like, when we start off with caro and that long point hair, it's pretty cool.
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you'd like that.
36:16
[SPEAKER_03]: We really need to have a longer conversation on the show about Linda Carter Wonder Woman.
36:19
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a little before my time, but it was like super impactful, burn entire queer generation.
36:25
[SPEAKER_03]: This female lead title with this like fashion icons swirling around and kicking people in the face.
36:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys have any comparisons.
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: The hair is so funny because I think my grandma had that way good at some point, that was probably from the 70s.
36:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, there's, it's of the time.
36:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it just, it is an iconic look.
36:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like her costume, which doesn't get as much play as later Ms. Marvel costumes.
36:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It is like, I just think it's a really well-designed outfit and the color blocking's really good.
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying I wanted to go back to this, but I think this was a good decision for her.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I just think this is like such classic superhero design, um, when she's Carol, uh, she's got the Clark camp glasses.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: She's got a pony tail.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like the whole high school movie of the nerdy girl and like, you know, she takes her glasses off and then she lets her hair not in suddenly you're beautiful.
37:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean, but I feel like Miss Marvel, her hair style is like, you know, totally like the going big, you know what I mean, it's the the popular girls hairdo, um, whereas when she's Carol, she's she's totally like a nerd, you know what I mean, even though it's kind of like this beautiful mod, um, 70 style version of a nerd, that's still glamorous in its way.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: As I work my way through continuity, it's going to be really interesting for me to get to the first appearance of Rogue, now that I'm like watching Carol Danbers move through real time, because Rogue's first appearance is stealing Carol's powers, and it's really interesting to think of the impact of this character and the version on Rogue later, because then Carol becomes binary.
37:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's pause for this little interlude at the Daily Bugle.
38:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you guys want to do a little script reading for me if you would like?
38:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh, can I have you take the male character?
38:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Who is very upset?
38:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew, if you will read Tracy Burke, who is Carole's editor, friend, that is here, and then want to feel take the red-headed secretary.
38:20
[SPEAKER_03]: This is Carole's, this is Carole's team.
38:22
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just going to read this out loud, so if you'll start with us for us, Josh, with where is she?
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is she, Tracy?
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: not here, Gene, obviously, and come down before you give yourself a seizure.
38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Why should I?
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Carol falls me out in public tells me that to have the new cover layouts ready right before lunch and then has the gall not to be here to approve them.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Can they wait?
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Gene, I'll approve them on my authority.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Satisfied.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Not really no disrespect Tracy, but Carol's the boss.
38:53
[SPEAKER_02]: This is her job, her responsibility.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't I know it, Lynn, any sign of Carol?
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, gee, no Tracy, nothing since she left before lunch.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Me too, thanks, Lynn.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, kid, you're smoking more.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: The pressures getting to you, Carol.
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Carol.
39:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep playing the no show editor and your magazines had it.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Your magazine and me.
39:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So this woman is played by BR3.
39:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I want a whole comic book about her.
39:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I love her.
39:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's a podcast that I need everyone to look at the final panel on this page.
39:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It goes so hard.
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the hardest drawing of a hard-boiled associate editor of a women's magazine.
39:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I've ever seen this this grizzled lesbian.
39:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I love her so much.
39:36
[SPEAKER_02]: She just says this panel says so much about her and she also says the same thing Carol does, which is a very clear one thing, but she's like, uh, she's talking to herself.
39:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, she's like, you got this kid, you're smoking more.
39:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Carol does this like three times
39:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so Claremont has been seeding a little plot line through his work.
39:57
[SPEAKER_03]: He has created something called the Cavarite Crystal.
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: C-A-V-O-U-R-I.
40:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Cavarite is initially mentioned in an H-G Wells book from 1900 in the first men on the moon novel.
40:11
[SPEAKER_03]: So now we're using this kind of old thing in his books.
40:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Claremont creates this cavernite crystal as a power source that's being used in multiple Miss Marvel stories.
40:21
[SPEAKER_03]: She's just finished fighting Grotesque, who's the man that killed the changeling when he was posing for as Professor X in 60's comics, who was stole the cavernite crystal.
40:31
[SPEAKER_03]: He's also going to use this crystal later when he introduces Madame Hydra and the silver Samurai in the new mutants.
40:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And this cavernite crystal comes back in the early 2000s Miss Marvel
40:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what they're here to get is this cavern at Crystal and they're going to fire their weird missile emotoc is from an aim base from an aim base which is held at the Acme facility.
40:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Has anyone seen Coyote versus Acme?
40:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Because this is a super villain plot that fits right into that film.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully this week I didn't find a watch it.
41:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.
41:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so great.
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Looks like it.
41:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Andrew, any thoughts?
41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You seem like a wily coyote fan.
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big fan and John Cena's in it and I'm excited to watch it when I get the moment, but the trailer looks epic and I'm down for it.
41:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I highly recommend it.
41:21
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really smart and fun.
41:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we're going to talk about this final fight scene where Ms. Marvel has to take on
41:32
[SPEAKER_00]: In the previous page, Deathbird is a bit puzzled because a javeline is thrown to the window and it's one of hers and in the next panel suddenly Miss Marvel has burst through the glass into the room and has punched Deathbird out in like a truly wacky post.
41:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Deathbird is like bent all upside down out of shape with a big crack cow over her and you know Carol is not letting a
41:59
[SPEAKER_00]: She says, here's something I've wanted to give you for a long time, a good old fashion punch in the nose, and Modox design is perfect for this because you see him in the next page recoil from that punch and his whole face is scrunched in his nose, like literally the lights are all pointing there.
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So it looks quite painful, and she punches him again, ripping at his armor, and then from behind she gets hit by Deathbird, who hits throws her against some of the equipment under certain walls.
42:31
[SPEAKER_03]: If you notice, Deathbird has little claws on the tips of her feathers, and she uses them to, like, in snare, Miss Marvel's scarf, which is an impractical thing to wear and flying combat.
42:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this Marvel thinks to herself, the spurs on deathbirds' opinions, they're as deadly as her talents.
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get a whole shot of deathbird, basically, like berserk her baraging.
43:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, it's like your full shot of her pain.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the second time in this fight sequence where she shows that off like the artist really goes for that angle.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And just as she's lunging at Carol, Carol puts it like up and death word makes it.
43:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Death word makes it ca- sound and Carol says that scream when she attacks like the hunting cry of a hawk or an eagle, which is a crazy thing for death word.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they crash through the glass into another room and mo dock at this point realizes as the two are fighting each other that they're evenly matched and so he can't really wait and put his plants aside for this and so he starts moving to set things in motion, I have to say the good the the choreo on these fights is crazy you can see they use the artist uses
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Sally uses this technique, where he uses speed lines to create the trajectory, to represent the trajectory of punches and fails and kicks and hits.
44:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have these beautiful white arcs that sort of like arc through every panel, as deathbird and Carol fight each other.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And
44:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They're so well arranged in the layout where they don't really cross or create any tangents.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really gives you a strong sense of motion through the whole thing.
44:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And even without all the advanced techniques we see in manga nowadays, like this stuff is quite bracing as a fight scene.
44:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And it even cuts into like a T-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-5 counting as they rail at each other like Carol.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me have one take over in the panel where a deaf bird and has her javelin and Carol's fighting her.
44:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a swordfight almost.
44:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love all of this.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, this right here, Carol starts to kind of have this sympathy.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this, you start to kind of see that deaf bird might be more than she appears.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she just starts to really kind of see like more into her.
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then um, they get into it.
45:13
[SPEAKER_01]: She throws some barrels at her.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Some and um,
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I am what I am.
45:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I am deaf bird.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she's like, I live only to kill.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this is like one of my favorite parts.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the the explosion near the end where the rockets about to take off and the Maudauk News on both for dead.
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I believe she catches on fire.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like roll woman because the blast catches on Carol from there jumps into the, um,
45:38
[SPEAKER_01]: control room to escape the full explosion, the force of the explosion.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that last panel is so good.
45:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The broom, like, the wish he gets down in the blast is above her.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wish that was like a splash page and like a page, a page reveal like we cross over and that's what we see.
45:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That would have been so epic.
45:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was it was so well done right here.
45:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Duffford, if we go back to the timer is going down, there's only five seconds left, and Duffford just goes nuts.
46:07
[SPEAKER_03]: She's coming out with javelins with cloth.
46:09
[SPEAKER_03]: She needs Carol in the face, and there's a point where we're just remember this.
46:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have a conversation about her origins in a minute.
46:15
[SPEAKER_03]: She says,
46:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I was first born of the airy and I was born cursed with a berserker fury that tempted me to commit the sin of sins.
46:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I killed Ms. Marvel, one of my own kind, one of my sisters, and now I shall kill you.
46:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh, what do we know about the family of Deathbird at this point in our history?
46:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I should know better about this.
46:38
[SPEAKER_02]: At this point in our history?
46:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean now, like now that we
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: If I remember correctly, death bird with a Laundra was at the risk of the Shear and had exiled death bird for an attempted overthrow, right, was it with yes.
46:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So death bird is death bird is the oldest child and underneath her are Laundra and the Ken can is the mad crazy king and Laundra is like the noble warrior, but she also still commits war crimes, right.
47:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbird is more savage, she was born with kind of an evolutionary throwback.
47:13
[SPEAKER_03]: She has wings on her arms, where Lillandra just has feathers and not actual wings.
47:18
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a difference.
47:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So we see her referencing here, Deathbird says I killed one of my sisters.
47:23
[SPEAKER_03]: In a later story, we're going to see a reference, she also killed her mother.
47:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So when we first meet her, she's been exiled from the Shiar, and they have stricken her name from the records.
47:32
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of early she are and early deathbird stories that we do not know.
47:36
[SPEAKER_03]: She's also in the mother of a couple of weird characters named Black Light and White Noise, who we've never seen her on panel with, and later she marries Vulcan and has an egg baby.
47:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a lot going on with all of this, but this character's reference to her history and her honor here is really interesting.
47:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Ajashini thoughts on that.
47:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this feels like, this is like classic Claremont, right?
48:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, there are no throwaway characters.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It just he hasn't gotten to the issue where it's going to become relevance in 10 years.
48:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love all this.
48:07
[SPEAKER_02]: She are stuff.
48:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel bad because I read every LaLonda appearance last year, just because on a whim.
48:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But Deftberg gets more to do.
48:16
[SPEAKER_02]: She's more fun.
48:17
[SPEAKER_02]: She's more dangerous.
48:18
[SPEAKER_02]: She gets to make big mistakes like LaLonda or typically doesn't.
48:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an interesting dichotomy because Deftberg has this whole
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: basically.
48:28
[SPEAKER_03]: She's also fucked the most X men besides Mystique, I think.
48:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is interesting.
48:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Deathbirds, berserker fury.
48:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want your sympathy woman or your help.
48:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't need it.
48:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I am what I am.
48:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I am definitely.
48:42
[SPEAKER_03]: and I live only to kill.
48:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the modach has also set the rockets off to fire, but Deathbird still doesn't sit down.
48:53
[SPEAKER_03]: She's still coming at her with javelins and then she ends up lost in the flames.
48:58
[SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna see her back later in the Miss Marvel series.
49:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But what are your thoughts on the conclusion of this book?
49:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Miss Marvel has had enough of modach and she is done in the final panel.
49:09
[SPEAKER_03]: She shakes her fist at the sky.
49:11
[SPEAKER_03]: She says, here me moatok, it's not ended between us, not by a long shot, and when we connect cross swords, only one will survive.
49:20
[SPEAKER_03]: She is done, and her thighs are all dirty.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I really liked this adventure for Carol.
49:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that she entered, she crosses over into Amstuff fairly often, but I like, I kind of like, Modoc is her Nemesis, right?
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause she's like, she's so beautiful and virtuous and brave and like, Modoc is Modoc.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, what a perfect counterpoint than like the most disgusting man who ever lived.
49:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I love Motoc and Carol.
49:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They should fight more often.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really enjoyed this.
49:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that those those pages leading towards the end.
49:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I really really like those last few pages between her and the death bird were were really good.
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that the fighting sequences are like, I mean, it's a
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So from the shots, they were, they were some really, I like the Javelin action and the explosion.
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the explosion was just so epic.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted, I just want, I wish it could have been just exploded more on the page.
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have been so cool, but I know it's, that's what they would do back then.
50:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do have the admit when she opened it up and Maudac wasn't there, the capsule.
50:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, of course he's not in there, but I wish, like, when she was, I wish there was more like, you know, they really went at each other.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, the only one will survive with the fist of, yeah, it's, it's classic, it's the whole classic, like, and so the adventure continues.
50:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I agree with Josh.
50:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, I think Monok is a really good character for her to go against because there is this elegance to her and this this bravery towards her.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Monok, yeah, Monok is kind of like, I mean, yeah, he's kind of disgusting.
50:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we love, we love Modo because he is that classic Boja Ha Villan, I remind of the recent human movie where I think he might ask Skeletor, like, you know, there must be some trauma or something and he's like, no, it's not that it's not simple.
51:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's simple really.
51:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like want to mess with the world.
51:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like there's not a lot of pathos here.
51:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We're a bad person.
51:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So
51:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Modus great that way and it is a good contrast to yeah, Claremont really excels at writing new ones to women and like alluding to their new ones even with like a breakneck plot I have to say though plot wise.
51:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was super funny that, you know, after Carol Evade's the explosion and loses death birds.
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: She says to herself now to stop moda.
51:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very simple really
51:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Every launch complex has an abort control and then we see her hand go up to this giant red button that has an abort like sign over it all I have to do is press it and then the missile goes out and I'm like wait a minute like this is a first this is not every launch complex because I feel like in most adventure stories once it's launched
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't stop it.
51:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone has a history and air force base, it's like, just look at those gears as a secret agent, you know?
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think it's really cool that we end on a cliffhanger, as usual, like Claremont knows how to keep us excited for the next issue.
52:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are a lot of hanging plot threads, but it does feel like the A plot of this episode where there was like, a lot of physical conflict, all of that resolved.
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still a satisfying issue.
52:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You feel like you got your money's worth for the month.
52:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's fun, the the the the the the the saga continues, you know,
52:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this whole title is rad.
52:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It's worth the entire read.
52:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Now after this in the next coming issues, Ms. Marvel is going to fight Hechete, some weird characters named Sapper and Golden Blade.
52:43
[SPEAKER_03]: She fights an old 70s villain called Steeplejack and then we have Tiger Shark, again, in the Centurion.
52:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And then does anyone know which major X-Men villain also makes her debut in Ms. Marvel in the 1970s?
52:57
[SPEAKER_03]: What did he mystique?
52:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It is, Mystique shows up for her first appearance around Ms. Marvel 18.
53:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll get there on my show in the new year.
53:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right, Mystique has finally arrived to Grandma and Lane.
53:08
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get there.
53:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So your deathbird and Mystique show up here.
53:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this issue and I love hanging out with the three of you.
53:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You guys are always such a good time.
53:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's fun talking comics with my friends and it's fun knowing people who make amazing comics.
53:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me hear from each of you any final thoughts and anything you want to plug for October 2026.
53:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go Josh Andrew and then Juan.
53:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
53:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So final thoughts.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Carol rules.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Love to love the outfit.
53:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Gonna go back and reread some of these.
53:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Motoc.
53:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Boo.
53:37
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't like Motoc, but we love to hate them.
53:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for comics, Juan and I are both writing stories and Marvel voices, Nova, return
53:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a celebration of our boy Sam Alexander and Nova and kind of his community and where he comes from and I have a high space high stakes adventure in mine with a villain that I'm really happy to bring back from my whole thing and we can run.
54:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Josh, can I just quickly because I forgot to bring it up earlier.
54:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you tell us about Ultronica quickly.
54:08
[SPEAKER_03]: If no one has heard.
54:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, we do have to get to Ultronica.
54:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I love for so much.
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it hopefully weekend in Hulkling rate of Ultron those the marble pride issue that came out this summer Ultron creates duplicates of himself with various personalities he's kind of trying every method let's see let's see what's six maybe one of these clones of mine will take over the world and so one of them he creates is basically who we call dad Tron is kind of like a sitcomy dad, but he has a daughter all his own.
54:34
[SPEAKER_02]: a new addition to the Marvel canon and the very complicated ultra on family tree named Ultronica and she's basically a teenage girl who is Ultron and she she's trying to get concert tickets like everyone else she's too busy to be bothered to take over the world but she's a new arch foe for Vivision who's the lead of our story and that we had so much fun writing her and run by a friend Bradley Clayton who's a great play.
54:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and she's really blown up by still see fan art for Ultronica every so often it's pretty pretty shocking the after life she's had I'm hoping we're going to see her again.
55:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I know exactly where I want where I want to see her.
55:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and then Andrew.
55:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So if this comes out of October 26.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm currently the lead artist on a DC crossover, so if you guys are interested, it's called DC Go Runway to Ruin.
55:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first big crossover amongst all the DC Go titles.
55:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's written by Patrick Ariang, and I'm teaming up with a new colorist, Wesley Manuel.
55:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really excited because we've got Harley Quinn, Nightwing,
55:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Cersei from Wonder Woman and Shazam and Tani, all teaming up to fight a new big bad that we've come up with called King Kringe, and he is a Cosmic Shane Demon, who's really intent on making sure everyone relips their cringiest moments, so that he can harvest it for his sinister purposes.
56:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We made sure he wore Jinko jeans and he's got a crop top and he's very sassy and quite the present.
56:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, if for people who are listening right now, I invite you to check it out because it's free to read on DC Universe Infinite.
56:29
[SPEAKER_00]: all you need is like an email address log in and then go to DC, go, or then check out all available for you to read right now.
56:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can catch up immediately and I'm pouring a lot of love into it, and I'm so excited to see where it goes.
56:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I had the great pleasure of, yes, it's October, me and Josh.
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We get to have our voice story of Samuel Alexander come out.
56:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to be the back up for Nova, Return of the Rings.
56:53
[SPEAKER_01]: My short story is Nova, Shining Light,
56:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was it was really great to be a part of that.
56:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I really hope everyone goes out and gets it.
57:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I got to read so Josh just stuff and it's you trust me.
57:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You do not want to miss this is really good.
57:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I really hope everyone checks it out October 14.
57:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited for all of you having new announcements that makes me really happy.
57:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big fan of each of yours and it's just lovely to spend this time with you.
57:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for coming and learning out with me.
57:18
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have not checked out my book, Game Warman Dad, that came up Pride Month this year, please do so.
57:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you will be pleased.
57:24
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have read it, please leave a review on good reads.
57:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It really helps us little indie writers who are trying to put stuff out there.
57:30
[SPEAKER_03]: We've all been there before.
57:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Lastly, you can follow my show at Gramel can underscore land on Instagram most easily.
57:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Next week, we wrap up Shiar Month with our academic panel for the month, which is going to be all about Eric, the red, and a lot of the deep Shiar lore that rest in things like Star Wars and War of the Roses.
57:49
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to give it a real academic spin as we go deep into Marvel continuity.
57:53
[SPEAKER_03]: November on the show we are going to be celebrating storm all month that's a storm focused month on both channels So I hope you're enjoying the content.
58:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you everybody for listening and for the ongoing support Thank you to my dear friends Juan Andrew and Josh We will see you all back here next week on in Kremlin
58:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
58:14
[SPEAKER_03]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
58:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
58:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
58:33
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
58:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, the best way you could help
58:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Grimmulkin Lane is by sharing and liking and subscribing, but also please leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
58:49
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.