Latest / Rachel Oates / Candace Owens Lied And Lost In This Jubilee Debate

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Candace Owens Lied And Lost In This Jubilee Debate · Rachel Oates

• 0:00
  OK, Hi everyone. Welcome back to a new video.
• 0:02
  We're just recording audio only today and I hope that's OK.
• 0:05
  If you're listening on Spotify, hi.
• 0:07
  If you're listening or watch on YouTube also hi.
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  Today we're going to be talking about someone that I've been
• 0:11
  wanting to talk about for a while but just haven't for some
• 0:13
  reason. And that is Candice Owens.
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  And she was recently on, I think it's like a Jubilee video where
• 0:19
  it was like her debate in 20 Liberals or whatever it is.
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  And I definitely have a lot of feelings about the Jubilee
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  videos, which I'll touch on later in this video.
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  And I don't necessarily think they are the most educational.
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  I don't necessarily think they're the most helpful.
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  I think they are quite rage baity and they just want to make
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  people on both sides quite angry.
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  And they don't really do anything to further the
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  conversation. But I do think this video
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  brought up some interesting points that are worth talking
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  about. They're worth fact checking.
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  They're worth having a discussion about and trying to
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  turn this into something actually educational.
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  So I'm going to be responding in this video to the first half of
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  this debate, which is the first two claims that Candace made.
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  If you want to see a second-half of this and see me responding to
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  the second-half of that video, then please let me know down in
• 1:07
  the comments. Because in the second-half of
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  the video, she makes crazy claims like how we're living in
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  a matriarchy. So if you want to see me respond
• 1:13
  to that, please let me know. In the meantime, hi, Thank you
• 1:16
  so much for being. Yeah.
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  It'll be wonderful. If you want to subscribe, if you
• 1:20
  end up liking this video, if you have been here before, check
• 1:24
  you're still subscribed. That's always really good.
• 1:26
  And you can follow me over on Instagram at Rachel Oates with a
• 1:29
  0 if you want to see more of my everyday life and some fun stuff
• 1:31
  that I've been doing recently. But for now, let's just jump
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  into responding to this video. Yeah.
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  My first claim is that the sexual revolution has devalued
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  women and made them infinitely less happy.
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  Okay, so first up we need to define what this sexual
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  revolution is. And for this I think we can
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  maybe define it as the time period between mostly the 1960s
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  and 70s, but also a little bit before and afterwards, when
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  birth control became more readily available and people
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  could use it with less shame and stigma.
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  This allowed women and men, but honestly mostly women and people
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  with uteruses, to have more control over who they had sex
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  with, when, where, why and how. It allowed them more control if,
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  over if and when they had kids. It allowed them more control
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  over how many or how few sexual partners they had.
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  The sexual revolution allowed more open talk about sex in
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  general, meaning people would be more educated about their
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  bodies, the bodies of others, about consent, about how to
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  practise sex safely and healthily, about pleasure and
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  choice. It was about reducing shame and
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  stigma so more people could make the choices that they wanted to
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  make and not just what society told them they should be doing.
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  This did lead to some people having more premarital sex, more
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  sexual partners, having sexual partners of different genders
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  and so on. But none of this was forced on
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  people. It was a choice people could now
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  begin to make more freely. If you still wanted to wait
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  until marriage, you could. If you still only want one
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  sexual partner, you could. There was nothing saying saying
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  hey, you have to be promiscuous and do this and this and this
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  and this. It was all about choice.
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  It also opened up a lot of choices for people that Candace
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  Owens seems to forget with society not pushing the get
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  married young, save yourself until marriage and pop out all
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  the babies you can anymore. This did benefit people who
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  wanted multiple partners, for example, but it also benefited
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  people who didn't want any partners at all.
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  Asexual people were starting to become more accepted.
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  Although I admit even today we have a long way to go still and
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  if people didn't want to have any kind of sexual relationship,
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  they didn't have to anymore. Ultimately the sexual revolution
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  was about education and choice and I don't see that as a bad
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  thing at all. Actually there's a great little
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  summary that comes from Kristen Anderson in her book Modern
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  Misogyny. Anti feminist propaganda in a
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  post feminist era. She writes feminists in the
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  1960s and 70s fought for, amongst other things, control
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  over their bodies, the right to control their reproduction, the
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  right to love who they want, the right to extricate themselves
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  from abusive relationships. The woman's liberation movement
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  fought for the release of women from conventional morality
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  around sex, which had confined them to either idealise chastity
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  on one hand, or contempt or contemptible promiscuity on the
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  other. Feminism allowed for the
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  possibility of women engaging in sex for their own pleasure,
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  rather than for the two previous allowed reasons for sex to
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  reproduce or to please her husband.
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  However, she also brings up the fact that there's an argument to
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  be made in some ways that misogynists have taken women's
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  freedom and used against them to objectify them further, to
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  overly sexualize them without their consent and so on.
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  That is something we will be discussing later in this video,
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  but not right now. For now, we're just talking
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  about the direct consequences of the sexual revolution in the 60s
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  and 70s. A woman's right, or a person
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  with a uterus right to choose how she expresses her sexuality
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  and what happens in their own body.
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  I think what Candace is trying to argue here is that now women
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  have a choice and aren't as easy to control and shame.
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  Candace Owens and other misogynists are not happy about
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  that because ultimately their goal is to control women and to
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  shame them into submission. But that doesn't mean that
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  having freedom of choice is inherently dangerous or harmful
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  for women or that'll make them miserable.
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  Having a choice does not devalue someone.
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  It's quite the opposite. Having choice over what happens
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  to your body is not going to make people less happy.
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  Again, quite the opposite. Now, I'm speaking generally that
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  because are there some choices that a woman can make that will
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  be dangerous and therefore result in her being less happy?
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  Yes, of course, just like there's some choices a man can
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  make that can be dangerous. For example, whether a man or
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  woman chooses to have unprotected sex with a partner
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  that they don't know the health status of he Oh, I said status
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  is the status of my turn, American.
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  Oh, God, sorry. When they choose that he or she
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  or they are potentially putting their body at risk by opening
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  themselves up to disease like sexually transmitted infections
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  and so on. If they choose to have
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  unprotected sex when they don't want pregnancy, that could be
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  harmful or bad or irrational, right?
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  I think I think we can all agree on that.
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  I can see that. An unwanted SDI or an unwanted
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  pregnancy, that might make someone less happy.
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  I see that, but again, this doesn't devalue a person.
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  A person isn't lesser than someone because they might have
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  an illness or a need for medical treatment.
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  And the issue here, the unhappiness, stems from a person
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  making an uninformed or irresponsible or irrational
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  choice, something which millions of people do in all kinds of
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  situations every day. Because humans are irrational
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  beings, right? The issue there is with the
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  irrationality of humans, not with a woman or person with a
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  uterus having the right to choose what they do with their
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  own body. The issue is with people's
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  individual choices, not with people having freedoms at all.
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  Take a different example. Imagine a man makes a dangerous
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  and irrational or uninformed choice to eat a piece of meat
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  which has expired, and he then has to face the consequences of
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  that, which are likely going to be food poisoning, and let's be
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  honest, that's going to make him pretty unhappy.
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  He will face those consequences, but he will also still be able
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  to receive health care and be looked after by the people
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  around him and won't have to deal, and won't have to deal
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  with people arguing that all men should be on diets dictated by
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  the government. Because they clearly can't be
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  trusted to make the right choices about their own bodies,
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  can they? All that being said, the sexual
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  revolution didn't dictate that everyone should be making
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  irresponsible choices with their body.
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  It just offered women the chance to make any choice about their
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  own body. So not all women are going to be
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  making irrational or harmful choices.
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  Some are going to be making smart, informed, well thought
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  out choices that are right for them.
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  The women who choose to have safe sex.
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  The women who choose to have consensual encounters.
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  The women who plan for pregnancy or plan to prevent pregnancy.
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  The women who choose to wait until marriage.
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  The women who are asexual and choose not to have sex.
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  The women who are able to be with partners of whatever gender
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  they're attracted to. And so on.
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  These are the rational choices that plenty of women can now
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  make for themselves amongst others, thanks to the sexual
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  revolution. And I don't see how any of these
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  choices would lead to someone being devalued or unhappy.
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  But I mean, let's, let's focus on that devalued claim for a
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  second. Again, what does that even mean?
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  I feel like Candace is probably referring to the fact that some
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  of the choices that some women make are the ones which Candace
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  and other misogynists don't want them to do.
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  So Candace and the other misogynists shame these women
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  for doing them. They shame them for making these
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  choices. They begin to treat them as
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  lesser than them. But this doesn't mean women are
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  actually devalued. It means that these people are
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  misogynists and need to sort their life out and start
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  treating other humans better. The issue here is with Candace
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  and the misogynists, not the women who are just living their
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  lives. Again, let's go back to a food
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  example. I personally really hate sweet
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  corn. Right, Hate it.
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  Even the smell disgusts me. So if I see a person go out of
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  their way to all the sweet corn, I might think to myself, oh God,
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  that's that's something I'd never do.
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  I can't even understand why person would want to do that.
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  But I'm watching you do it happily and I'm feeling quite
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  confused about it. But just because you're choosing
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  to eat a food that I don't like, does that suddenly mean you lose
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  value as a person? No, no, of course it doesn't.
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  So why? Just because you see someone
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  making a choice about their sex life that you wouldn't do, how
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  does that change their value as a person doesn't?
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  It absolutely doesn't. As long as the person is engaged
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  in consensual acts, communicate with her partner, being open and
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  honest isn't endangering anyones physical health, knowingly and
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  so on. Why should whatever choice they
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  make affect their value as a human?
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  It doesn't. And if you think it does, that
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  is a problem with the person assigning the value.
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  If you are assigning value to people based on their sexual
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  preferences, that is a problem with you and not the person
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  who's just making choices for themselves.
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  So are women still being shamed for their sexuality and choices
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  and bodily autonomy? Yes, but that is something which
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  needs to change amongst misogynists and those doing the
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  shaming. Yeshu is not with women who are
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  just happy making their own choices.
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  As Meredith Rawlson writes in her book Slut Shaming,
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  Horophobia and the Unfinished Sexual Revolution, women won't
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  be free until their sexuality in whatever manifestation is not
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  shamed and stigmatised. It's not someone's sexuality
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  which devalues them, but individuals and misogyny
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  assigning a value to them. And besides, if you want an
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  example of why the sexual revolution has been good to
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  women, just look at how kind of someone introduced herself.
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  Hi, my name is Candace Owens. I am a podcaster, a mother, a
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  wife and also the author of the upcoming book Make Him a
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  Sandwich. And today I am surrounded by 20
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  feminists. The fact that she could choose
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  to define herself by her job first, mother second, is thanks
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  to feminists and in part specifically the sexual
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  revolution. The fact that she was able to
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  choose her own husband, was able to decide if, why, how, and who
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  she had kids with at all was thanks to the sexual revolution.
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  The fact that she's able to sit here and debate these topics at
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  all is, you guessed it, thanks to the sexual revolution.
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  Another thing that came with this time period and the sexual
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  revolution is that, yeah, divorce rates did increase
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  because it became less stigmatised to divorce.
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  And again, I don't see how that's a bad thing because it's
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  because it has been proven time and time again that people are
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  happier and healthier when they leave bad relationships than
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  when they and are single than when they are forced to stay in
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  an unhappy or unhealthy relationship.
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  Women could now leave abusive partners and husbands and get to
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  safety. They could leave men who made
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  them unhappy or cheated on them. They didn't have to stay.
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  But of course no one was forcing people to divorce.
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  If the relationship was happy and healthy, people stayed in
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  it. Having the choice is not a bad
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  thing. Having the choice did not make
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  people unhappy or devalue them. The woman, the feminist who
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  replied to Candace Owen here. She brought up this point and
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  Candace responded with a straight up lie.
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  My question for you is, statistics show that 60% of
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  women who are murdered are murdered by their intimate
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  partners, murdered by someone that they are in close relations
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  with. That's according to the UN from
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  2023. So how is it that, you know,
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  women are are so valued, you know, quote unquote in the home
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  and yet that's the place where they're at the most danger?
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  Still not sure how this correlates to whether or not.
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  Sexual revolution increased woman's ability to leave the
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  house, woman's ability to control their own reproductive
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  capabilities, woman's ability to, you know, control their own
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  like capacity within the workforce in regards to their
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  own sexual capacity. So it is the very fact that,
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  like, the sexual revolution happened that made our access to
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  the workplace much more, or just the public sphere in general,
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  much more easy. So like, without the sexual
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  revolution, women would be much more confined to the place where
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  they're at the most danger. Isn't that true?
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  So you think that just so I'm trying to understand your
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  argument here, you think that if we didn't have the sexual
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  revolution, less women or more women or?
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  Women would be murdered for sure.
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  OK, I disagree with that. I mean, this, she's straight up
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  wrong here. But this isn't quite the light.
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  We'll get to that in a second. I just want to bring up some
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  more stats here for a second. So according to research
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  compiled by Kristen Anderson, she writes, men are nearly four
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  times more likely than women to be murdered.
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  But men are also seven times more likely than women to commit
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  murder. Women are more likely than men
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  to be victimised by someone they know than by a stranger for all
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  measured silent crimes except robbery.
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  Specifically, female murder victims are more likely to be
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  killed by an intimate partner than a man.
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  For instance, in 2010, 39% of female homicide victims were
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  killed by an intimate, whereas only 3% of male homicide victims
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  were killed by an intimate in the United States.
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  One study of more than 5000 American College students found
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  that 28.5% had experienced an attempted or completed sexual
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  assault either before or since entering college.
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  Sexual assault of women is also common in already physically
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  abusive relationships. 68% of physically abused women were
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  also sexually assaulted by their intimate partners.
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  And finally, women are more than twice as likely to be stalked as
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  men. One out of every 14 American
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  women will be stalked at some point in their lives, and around
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  87% of the stalkers will be men. According to the US Department
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  of Justice, 4 out of five stalking victims are women.
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  So the sexual revolution played a huge part in allowing women to
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  escape these abusive and dangerous situations.
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  And it's sad that there's still plenty of us who have been
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  through this and continue to go through this everyday, like
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  myself included. But just know that without
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  feminism, without women being able to divorce their partners,
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  without the sexual revolution and so on, these stats would be
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  even higher. More women would be killed and
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  abused and harassed and assaulted.
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  And we know this because in countries where women are not
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  allowed to initiate divorce or a woman's or where a woman's
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  sexuality is still policed to the extreme, or where victims
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  aren't allowed to speak up and get help and those who do the
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  abusing have no chance of being prosecuted.
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  In those countries, women still die an alarming rate.
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  I'm going to throw a lot of stats at you here, but they're
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  important. UN Women reports that globally,
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  81,000 women and girls were killed in 2021 and around 45,000
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  of them, that's 56% died at the hands of an intimate partner or
• 15:22
  family member. Meanwhile, the Femicide census
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  tells us that every day, every single day, 137 women and girls
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  across the world are killed by a family member or intimate
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  partner. According to the United Nations
• 15:34
  Office on Drugs and Crime, it's estimated that around the world,
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  a woman or girl is killed every 11 minutes in its own home.
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  And it's it, well, sorry, in their own home.
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  And it's even worse in certain countries.
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  Concern Worldwide reported that the Democratic Republic of Congo
• 15:48
  ranks as the worst country for intimate partner violence, with
• 15:51
  half of all Congolese women over 15 reporting experiencing
• 15:55
  physical violence. Women Kind reports that in Iran
• 15:58
  alone there are 400 to 500 honour killings taking place
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  every year, almost always by male relatives.
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  In Latin America and the Caribbean, twelve women and
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  girls are killed every day. However, 98% of cases go
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  unprosecuted. El Salvador has the highest rate
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  of femicide in the world according to 2017 data from the
• 16:20
  United Nations was 13.9 out of every 100,000 women murdered.
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  Meanwhile, Jamaica has the second highest rate of femicide
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  in the world according to the UN, with 11 out of every 100,000
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  women murdered in 2017. In India, dowry related killings
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  equal 25 equal 20 femicides a day, with nearly 7000 dowry
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  deaths per year in 2020. Do I need to go on?
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  And sources for all that are in the source document link below.
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  And it's not just about women being able to sweep around and
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  do whatever they want. It's about women being able to
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  choose their own relationships and half bodily autonomy and be
• 16:55
  able to safely leave dangerous situations.
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  And while we've come a long way in some parts of the world, we
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  clearly, clearly have a long way to go in others.
• 17:05
  And the answer to this isn't, well, we should police who women
• 17:07
  have sex with more, and if they take birth control, we should
• 17:09
  police her too. No, the answer is to stop
• 17:11
  misogynistic violence against women by being more aware of it,
• 17:14
  doing more to stop it, and actually prosecuting the people
• 17:18
  who do it. A woman isn't unhappy and
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  devalued because she chooses to stick a coil inside her or take
• 17:24
  a pill. A woman is unhappy and devalued
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  when she is shamed, harassed, assaulted and murdered simply
• 17:31
  for existing. And none of that is the fault of
• 17:34
  the women for existing, for making choices, for doing what
• 17:38
  is right for them. Here we go this way.
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  I still don't think it has anything to do with the claim
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  that women are infinitely less happy because of the sexual
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  revolution, which has. I think you'd probably be less
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  happy if you're being murdered. Anyone.
• 17:55
  Disagree. OK, Yeah, I don't.
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  OK, OK. There is definitely a
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  correlation between personal relationships and domestic
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  violence. And just to be clear, if we're
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  talking about just like a monogamous relationships, the
• 18:05
  most violent relationships that are on the books are between
• 18:08
  lesbian partners. Yes, when people are intimate,
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  that's not that is actually true.
• 18:13
  The statistic you're talking about is people who have faced
• 18:15
  domestic violence. Lesbians, yes, are more likely
• 18:17
  to have faced domestic violence, but that's because they're
• 18:19
  typically came from relationships with men in.
• 18:22
  Lesbian relationships are the most violent relationships that
• 18:25
  we have on the book, but we can they can Fact Check that claim.
• 18:28
  This is the outright lie. She is completely wrong and
• 18:32
  misunderstanding the studies done on this.
• 18:35
  The other woman tried to call her out on this but she just
• 18:36
  wasn't listened to it by Candace and Candace is just completely
• 18:40
  wrong. I literally have a whole video
• 18:42
  about this if you want to check it out.
• 18:43
  Again LinkedIn the source document.
• 18:45
  But to summarise, women are overwhelmingly the victims of
• 18:48
  domestic violence. Men are overwhelmingly the
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  perpetrators. When studies have been done
• 18:53
  asking people what relationship are you now in?
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  How do you now define your sexuality and have you ever been
• 18:57
  victim of domestic violence? They are not asking is your
• 19:00
  current partner violent? So what this meant is that
• 19:05
  because women are more likely to be victims, when you have two
• 19:07
  women in a relationship, it's more likely that at least one of
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  them will have been a victim in the past.
• 19:12
  So when gay men, lesbians, bisexual people and straight
• 19:16
  people were all asked, have you ever been a victim of domestic
• 19:19
  violence, this also included past relationships, and a lot of
• 19:23
  these people had been in past relationships with people of
• 19:26
  other genders than what they were in a relationship with now.
• 19:28
  So this meant that yes, some lesbians used to be in
• 19:30
  relationships with men, some gay men used to be in relationships
• 19:33
  with women, and bisexual people have had relationships with
• 19:35
  people of both genders. So when we consider that women
• 19:38
  are more likely to be victims of domestic violence and lesbians
• 19:42
  have two women in the relationship, that's twice as
• 19:44
  likely that one of them will have been a victim in the past.
• 19:46
  It is just basic maths. A lot of the lesbian and
• 19:49
  bisexual women in the study that Candace Owens is referring to
• 19:52
  were talking about domestic violence they faced for men in
• 19:55
  past relationships, not from their current female partners.
• 19:59
  This is something that homophobes choose to actively
• 20:02
  ignore. If you want the stats and
• 20:04
  sources and all of this in particular, I'll leave my
• 20:06
  original video LinkedIn the source document.
• 20:08
  But to give you a little summary, Women's Aid found in
• 20:12
  2024 that the overwhelming majority of alleged perpetrators
• 20:15
  of domestic violence are men. 94.4% of perpetrators in their
• 20:20
  studies were men. One study of 96 cases of
• 20:24
  domestic abuse recorded by the police found that men are
• 20:26
  significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and
• 20:29
  significantly more likely than women to use physical violence,
• 20:32
  threats and harassment. In a six year tracking period,
• 20:35
  the majority of recorded male perpetrators, 83%, had at least
• 20:39
  two incidents of recorded abuse, with many having a lot more than
• 20:42
  two and one man having 52 repeat incidents.
• 20:48
  Whereas in cases where women where women were recorded as the
• 20:50
  perpetrator of the majority. Whereas in cases where women
• 20:53
  were recorded as the perpetrators, the majority, 62%,
• 20:57
  only had one incident of abuse recorded and the highest number
• 21:00
  of repeat incidents for any female perpetrator was 8.
• 21:03
  The study also found that men's violence tended to create a
• 21:06
  context of fear and control, which was not the case when
• 21:09
  women were perpetrators. So Candace is lying, but what
• 21:12
  she says next is absolutely insane.
• 21:15
  In summary, she thinks domestic violence is inevitable in
• 21:18
  relationships because people are driven by anger, but then goes
• 21:22
  on to imply that women are more likely to be miserable.
• 21:24
  If men don't want to be with them or if they have to work,
• 21:27
  then they would be trapped in an abusive relationship.
• 21:29
  But yes, absolutely, it makes perfect sense that you are more
• 21:33
  likely in general when you are in a relationship because people
• 21:36
  are driven by anger by people that they know, whether or not
• 21:39
  we're talking about boyfriend and girlfriend, girlfriend and
• 21:42
  girlfriend, you know, a husband and a wife, a husband and a
• 21:45
  husband or a wife and a wife. Yes, of course the instances of
• 21:49
  domestic violence are going to take place when you're inside of
• 21:51
  a home. But the sexual revolution,
• 21:54
  encouraging women to give up their goods for free, which is
• 21:57
  what I'm speaking about, and encouraging men not to marry
• 22:00
  these women or to have long term relationships.
• 22:02
  What I am saying is a direct contributor to their
• 22:05
  unhappiness, because women are giving up their goods for free
• 22:09
  and women are now entering the workplace, and that does not
• 22:11
  actually make them happy. As a woman who is currently
• 22:15
  single and honestly a little bit lonely, but also as a woman who
• 22:18
  has been a victim of domestic violence, I will happily take
• 22:24
  not fearing for my life on a daily basis, but occasionally
• 22:26
  feeling a bit lonely over being back in an abusive relationship
• 22:30
  any day of the week. And As for work, it does make me
• 22:34
  happy and we should be allowed to choose to work if we want.
• 22:37
  If Candace really believes work makes women so miserable, then
• 22:40
  why does it just stop working herself and be happier?
• 22:43
  And I'm sorry, but can she please stop calling my sexual
• 22:45
  experiences my goods? I'm a woman, not an object.
• 22:49
  I don't have things for sale. My body is not for sale when I
• 22:52
  choose to be intimate with a partner or not.
• 22:54
  I'm doing that because I want to share an experience with someone
• 22:56
  or not. My body, my sexuality, my
• 22:59
  pleasure is not something which has monetary value, it's not
• 23:01
  something I'm trading with. I'm not asking you give me this
• 23:04
  and I'll give you this. The only thing being traded, if
• 23:07
  you will, is I'd like to make you happy and you make me happy
• 23:09
  in this moment and we get to know each other.
• 23:11
  When I have a conversation with a friend, I'm not bargaining or
• 23:14
  selling or trading or giving something up, am I?
• 23:16
  I'm enjoying a shared experience of socialising and so are they,
• 23:19
  and I choose to have a romantic or sexual relationship with
• 23:22
  someone. I'm choosing to enjoy a shared
• 23:24
  experience with them and so are they.
• 23:25
  Nothing more, nothing less. The idea of sex being
• 23:28
  transactional or something women give or lose as opposed to being
• 23:32
  a shared experience is nothing but outdated misogynistic
• 23:35
  nonsense. Meredith Ralston questions this
• 23:38
  herself when she writes Sex is natural for men.
• 23:41
  Sex for women is suspect. What is about sex that
• 23:43
  supposedly sullifies or dirties or makes us or dirties women, or
• 23:48
  makes us damaged goods? What is it about sex that
• 23:51
  implies such shame, disgrace and ruin?
• 23:54
  Women ashamed for their sexuality and not encouraged to
• 23:56
  explore their bodies or their pleasure.
• 23:59
  And I have to ask, why is me choosing to have sex with
• 24:01
  someone seen as me losing or giving up something?
• 24:04
  But not if that part is a man. Why are they not losing or
• 24:07
  giving up something? Why can't we use the same
• 24:10
  argument about men? He gave it up for free so why
• 24:13
  would I want to be in a relationship with him?
• 24:14
  I got what I wanted and don't need anything else from him.
• 24:16
  Right. I'm sure Candace Owens would
• 24:18
  come out with some nonsense about sex being different for
• 24:21
  men and women and something about men and women wanting
• 24:23
  different things from each other, but again, they're just
• 24:25
  harmful, outdated stereotypes that are unhelpful.
• 24:28
  Can she not see that every single individual is different
• 24:31
  and each person wants something different at different times in
• 24:33
  their life with different people under different circumstances?
• 24:37
  If I choose being to met with a man at this point in my life,
• 24:39
  it's because I want to experience that with him,
• 24:42
  nothing more. It's not a bargaining chip.
• 24:44
  It's not me losing something. It's not me saying, hey, I'll
• 24:46
  let you see this part My body if you give me XY and Z in return.
• 24:50
  It's simply saying, hey, I think you're really damn cool, you're
• 24:52
  attractive. I want to share this amazing
• 24:54
  experience with you and get to know you more.
• 24:56
  That's generally something that makes me feel happy and
• 24:58
  fulfilled. And I don't see how Candace
• 25:00
  could look at a woman like me making her own choices, knowing
• 25:03
  her own values and needs, being safe and responsible, and think,
• 25:06
  oh, she must be secretly miserable.
• 25:08
  And I view her as less than me, and that's just wild.
• 25:11
  That's nothing more than perhaps projection on her part because
• 25:15
  she can't understand different people wanting different things.
• 25:18
  Or maybe she's miserable in her own sex life.
• 25:20
  I don't know. Some of us are comfortable in
• 25:23
  our bodies, our sexualities, and expressing our needs and wants
• 25:26
  and desires. And that's absolutely OK.
• 25:29
  The next person who responded to her had some amazing points and
• 25:31
  I just want to show you this clip of what they said.
• 25:35
  I've no critiques here, I just thought it was a good point I
• 25:37
  wanted you to hear. It, you know, how do we place
• 25:40
  value on human beings in general?
• 25:42
  And so when we think about, you know, placing value that comes
• 25:45
  from a place of power, right? So I think was selected the
• 25:48
  Victorian era. You have this dominant group of
• 25:51
  people coming from white supremacy deciding who gets to
• 25:54
  have a proper status in the world.
• 25:58
  And so that is already like placed taking human beings and
• 26:01
  devaluing them. And So what the sexual
• 26:04
  revolution did was to help people seek out empowerment
• 26:08
  which increase value no matter the gender.
• 26:11
  So when it comes to sexual revolution, let's look at one
• 26:13
  contribution is sex education. And I have absolutely seen the
• 26:17
  positive outcome with the sexual revolution and sex education and
• 26:20
  seeing people empower themselves.
• 26:22
  And with that comes safety when it comes to decreasing STI's,
• 26:27
  abuse, sexual assault, again, people get to empower themselves
• 26:31
  of all genders. Yeah, no, no's love this.
• 26:34
  Good on them. Like I say, I think they brought
• 26:36
  up some damn good points and Candace, to be honest, barely
• 26:38
  had anything to say in response of them making a couple of
• 26:40
  snarky comments about how they're non binary so how can
• 26:43
  they know? So how can they know about like
• 26:47
  what makes women happy blah blah blah, even though like literally
• 26:50
  understanding and teaching feminist theory is part of their
• 26:52
  job. So of course in and clearly this
• 26:54
  was transphobia on Candace, this part because I mean, one, it's
• 26:57
  gross to see and two, she starts the next section like this.
• 27:01
  Hello, I'm Xena. Xena, very much like your name.
• 27:05
  Thank you so much, nice to meet. You can we start with the
• 27:06
  beginning. Do you identify as a female?
• 27:09
  I identify as a woman, yeah. OK.
• 27:10
  And three, she didn't ask any of the men this question, she only
• 27:14
  targeted the one vocally non binary person so.
• 27:18
  So a woman's worth is tied to her sexuality.
• 27:21
  It's not, it's not tied to, well, absolutely, if you're
• 27:23
  going to be having multiple partners, you are going to be
• 27:25
  devaluing yourself. You're worthless as a human
• 27:28
  being. Not as a human being, just, you
• 27:30
  know, in terms of trying to have a partnership in a productive
• 27:32
  relationship. Certainly men are not going to
• 27:34
  be clamouring to have a relationship with somebody when
• 27:37
  there's the market. So I'm growing them.
• 27:40
  A man's response to your actions is what defines your worth,
• 27:42
  right? Exactly what I was saying in the
• 27:44
  beginning. Right and it's ridiculous.
• 27:45
  If a man is going to dehumanise a woman in this way then surely
• 27:48
  the problem is with him and not the woman he's judging?
• 27:50
  This is just something that I keep hearing over and over and
• 27:53
  it makes no logical sense in my head.
• 27:55
  I don't understand how you can see someone as being worth less
• 27:58
  because they enjoy a shared romantic experience.
• 28:01
  I don't see someone as being worth less than me because they
• 28:03
  enjoy skiing or eating celery or sharing a bottle of wine with
• 28:06
  someone. So why would I think less of
• 28:08
  someone for enjoying sex? I think when it comes to that
• 28:10
  sort of thing, you can as an individual be like in a partner.
• 28:13
  I want someone who shares my values and so for example, I'm
• 28:17
  100% monogamous. I don't want multiple partners.
• 28:20
  So when I'm looking for a partner, I want to find someone
• 28:22
  who shares that value who is also monogamous.
• 28:25
  But that doesn't mean I look down on people who are
• 28:26
  polyamorous and think they have less value than me and must be
• 28:29
  miserable. Similarly, I'm allosexual, so I
• 28:32
  want a partner who is allosexual.
• 28:33
  That doesn't mean I see asexual people as having any different
• 28:37
  kind of value to me. It just means all values don't
• 28:40
  align and we wouldn't make good partners.
• 28:42
  I just can't get my head around this idea that consensual,
• 28:45
  harmless behaviour dictates a person's value.
• 28:48
  Like, surely if someone is lovely enough to have people who
• 28:51
  want to be with them, would that not imply that they clearly have
• 28:54
  a value because people want to spend time with them and share a
• 28:57
  wonderful experience with them Now?
• 28:59
  I'm not, I'm not crazy. You're right.
• 29:01
  I guess it all comes back to this idea that woman's sexuality
• 29:03
  is evil and something to be ashamed of and suppressed and
• 29:07
  that is such, again, outdated and harmful.
• 29:10
  Yeah. Well, yeah, I would say that I
• 29:13
  would argue that at the what makes women actually happy is
• 29:17
  family. So if you're interrupting.
• 29:20
  So I'm just to connect the dots for you.
• 29:21
  When women are having sex with multiple partners, it devalues
• 29:25
  them for men, right? Yes.
• 29:26
  So. Men define a woman's worth.
• 29:28
  Well, I would say both of them kind of define one another's
• 29:30
  worth because I think the ultimate goal for people to be
• 29:32
  happy is actually family. Again, I disagree.
• 29:35
  This may be true for her, but again, if it is, why is she
• 29:39
  bothering to work when she should be at home with her
• 29:41
  husband and kids? But it's not true for someone
• 29:44
  like me. For example, I would not be
• 29:45
  happy at all if I was forced into having kids because you
• 29:48
  know, I never want them. And if I was forced into being
• 29:51
  like a stay at home wife, like I'd be miserable because that's
• 29:53
  not something I want for myself. But if women do want that, they
• 29:56
  can still absolutely 100% do it. No one is stopping them.
• 30:01
  I'm sorry but like no other person should define your value.
• 30:03
  Only you get to do that for yourself.
• 30:06
  I know I want a partner who sees my value and appreciates it, not
• 30:09
  someone who defines it for me. And I think there's a huge
• 30:11
  difference there. And similarly, I want a partner
• 30:14
  that I see value in and I can never tell someone else they're
• 30:16
  worth. That's just controlling and
• 30:18
  cruel and bordering on being abusive, to be frank.
• 30:20
  OK. So you're saying in all cases a
• 30:23
  woman is going to be more fulfilled in regards to family
• 30:26
  like that's? Exactly what I'm saying.
• 30:27
  And this is going to work in all cases.
• 30:28
  You're saying there's no individual case in which a woman
• 30:30
  can feel, you know, fulfilled without being tied to other
• 30:35
  people. In the case of.
• 30:37
  I think there could be an exceptional case for everything.
• 30:40
  I think there are exceptional cases.
• 30:42
  And there you go, she admits her exceptions to even what she
• 30:46
  believes. So surely the solution is to
• 30:48
  offer the choice to women and not just force them into a role
• 30:51
  which you know will absolutely not be right for some of them.
• 30:55
  But I think that if we all start trying to be the exception as
• 30:58
  opposed to recognising the rule, which is that people in life are
• 31:02
  more fulfilled when they achieve a family unit and when they have
• 31:06
  children, women in particular especially having aspiring to
• 31:09
  children. Again, untrue, and many studies
• 31:12
  have found that unmarried women without kids are among some of
• 31:14
  the happiest groups of people. Again, that's something I spoke
• 31:17
  about in plenty of videos in the past.
• 31:19
  This clip has a woman saying to Candace that the sexual
• 31:21
  revolution led to women being objectified less, which has led
• 31:23
  to a decrease in sexual violence against women, and Candace
• 31:27
  responds with this. So you think that in today's
• 31:29
  society, because this is this is pretty wild for me.
• 31:34
  In the 1950s, you're saying women were more objectified than
• 31:38
  today. In the land of only fans, the
• 31:41
  Kardashian clan and women that are essentially putting up their
• 31:45
  boobs and butts for free on Instagram.
• 31:47
  You're saying we are now we finally have achieved less
• 31:51
  objectification where women can't even get onto an
• 31:54
  advertising. You can't even advertise a bag
• 31:57
  without them having to be naked in order for them to get a
• 31:59
  career as a model. You're saying, oh great, we've
• 32:02
  achieved actually less objectification.
• 32:05
  So, you know, this is something I actually think is a reasonable
• 32:08
  point from Candace, I'll give her that.
• 32:10
  But where I disagree with her is that she's implying the sexual
• 32:13
  revolution is what directly led to women being overly sexualized
• 32:17
  and objectified, and that it's feminist fault, not not
• 32:20
  misogynists. I have a whole lot to say about
• 32:24
  this. It's damn complicated.
• 32:26
  OK, first let's look at these claims about sexual violence.
• 32:29
  I'm not sure if the rates of sexual violence have actually
• 32:32
  gone down, because it's super hard to track, and obviously
• 32:34
  there are different rates around the world.
• 32:36
  I would argue that in many countries, but not all, sexual
• 32:39
  violence has become less acceptable.
• 32:42
  Sexual violence against men is taken more seriously than ever
• 32:45
  and their charity is now helping all victims of sexual violence.
• 32:49
  Police take reports more serious than seriously than before, but
• 32:52
  still not seriously enough. Marital rape is now illegal, but
• 32:56
  as I said, that didn't happen until 1991 in the UK, so it's
• 32:58
  all fairly recent. Said there are still scarily low
• 33:01
  conviction rates for perpetrators of sex crimes.
• 33:04
  Rates of criminal reporting are still way too low.
• 33:07
  As Sonia Rocher writes in her memoir, Groomed, when you report
• 33:10
  a sex crime, it often feels like you're the victim that's on
• 33:13
  trial rather than the accused. She wrote about her experience
• 33:17
  and how the prosecution questioned every single thing
• 33:19
  about her, like she was groomed at 15, and they questioned her
• 33:22
  past, her lifestyle, her relationships.
• 33:24
  But none of this was done to the man who groomed and raped her
• 33:27
  when she was just 15. Her private Diaries from that
• 33:30
  time was seized by the lawyers of her abuser and he had access
• 33:34
  to them all. He personally read all of her
• 33:36
  private thoughts from that time. He read all of her recent and
• 33:39
  past text messages and emails about her feelings on this
• 33:42
  matter. And she had absolutely no
• 33:43
  privacy or protection because despite being the victim when
• 33:46
  she was a child, she felt like she was the one on trial where
• 33:50
  she didn't get access to any of that from him, she wrote.
• 33:54
  My case hadn't even hit court yet, but nonetheless I felt a
• 33:57
  strong pressure to remain silent and a feeling or an
• 34:00
  understanding the S or abuser was being shielded.
• 34:04
  Much of the process seemed to be geared around protecting his
• 34:07
  well-being and his rights. He was presumed innocent, yet
• 34:11
  should I not be presumed innocent too?
• 34:13
  Where was my right to justice, to having my case resolved in a
• 34:16
  timely matter? I'd experienced an extraordinary
• 34:19
  invasion of privacy. I had to prepare to bear the
• 34:22
  brunt of humiliating bullying behaviour.
• 34:24
  Why was his right to silence so much more important than my
• 34:28
  right to be protected from further trauma?
• 34:30
  Implicit in all of this was that I brought this upon myself, that
• 34:33
  I chose to do this and therefore I would have to suffer the
• 34:35
  process. But I didn't choose to be a
• 34:37
  victim, and reporting a crime is what a person aware of a crime,
• 34:40
  victim or not, is meant to do. So was I being silenced?
• 34:45
  I was certainly allowed to speak.
• 34:46
  I hadn't signed any Ndas, but I'd entered a system where
• 34:49
  speaking out came at such an extraordinary emotional cost
• 34:52
  that staying silent was was a far more attractive option.
• 34:56
  I handed my diary over to the person who abused me and his
• 34:58
  legal team. I and I handed over my
• 35:00
  statement. I handed over other extremely
• 35:02
  personal pieces of evidence which would be shared amongst
• 35:05
  God knows who. I had prepared to have my
• 35:07
  history pulled up and be cross examined on all of this.
• 35:10
  I had to provide the names and phone numbers of family and
• 35:13
  friends so they could be called upon to be cross examined about
• 35:15
  my sexual history. My 15 year old self and my
• 35:19
  current motivation would be sliced into slivers and placed
• 35:22
  under the microscope. Every part of me examined and
• 35:25
  questioned with the aim of undermining me.
• 35:27
  Him. He was not required at any stage
• 35:30
  to speak or provide anything he didn't want to provide.
• 35:33
  In his police interview he was asked the names of his band
• 35:35
  members, all of whom I'm certain will Remember Me, but he refused
• 35:39
  to provide their names as was his right.
• 35:42
  None of this would be allowed to be held against him in court,
• 35:45
  she goes on to write. Many victims of sexual violence
• 35:47
  who go through the criminal justice system describe the
• 35:49
  courtroom process as re traumatising.
• 35:52
  Some victims say it's more traumatising than the initial
• 35:54
  abuse. It's not just in the courtroom,
• 35:56
  though, that the complainant is attacked.
• 35:58
  The most brutal treatment may come from the public and the
• 36:00
  media. So really, is any wonder that
• 36:02
  people don't speak out and seek legal consequences In some ways,
• 36:06
  sexual violence is still far too normal and too easy to get away
• 36:10
  with. But that argument aside, let's
• 36:13
  discuss this idea of women being sexualized today versus the
• 36:15
  1950s. I would actually argue, and this
• 36:17
  is surprising, that Candice's right to some extent.
• 36:20
  Women in the media often extremely over sexualized and
• 36:23
  sometimes have no choice but to commodify their sexuality and
• 36:26
  their body in order to succeed in certain careers or even just
• 36:30
  make basic income for themselves.
• 36:31
  But what Candace misses completely is that there is a
• 36:34
  huge difference between a woman embracing her own sexuality,
• 36:37
  owning her sexuality, feeling empowered by her sexuality, and
• 36:41
  having other people sexualize them against their will.
• 36:44
  A woman embracing her sexuality is empowering.
• 36:47
  A woman being sexualized against her will is not.
• 36:50
  That's harassment. Take another example.
• 36:52
  A woman who has many options but chooses to do sex work and finds
• 36:55
  it enjoyable and empowering can be a great thing.
• 36:58
  But a woman being forced into sex work by someone else or out
• 37:01
  of monetary necessity when she has no other choice and doesn't
• 37:04
  want to do it is harmful. These can be two women doing the
• 37:08
  exact same actions and work, even being paid the same, but to
• 37:13
  one it's empowering and to the other it's harmful because
• 37:16
  choice and consent matters. Another example, a woman decides
• 37:20
  to become a nude model and has men viewing her image sexually,
• 37:23
  and she may feel empowered by this.
• 37:25
  But a woman who has her private nude images leaked may also be
• 37:29
  viewed sexually by men but feel nothing but disgust and by
• 37:32
  embarrassment, shame and violation.
• 37:34
  Again, these are technically the same acts, men looking sexually
• 37:37
  an image of a woman, but what makes it different is choice and
• 37:41
  consent. So again, we have to look at who
• 37:43
  is choosing to sexualize these women.
• 37:45
  Is it the women themselves or is it others forcing it upon them?
• 37:48
  Whether something is empowering or violating can be complicated,
• 37:52
  and in some cases an act can be both at the same time.
• 37:55
  I don't think it's a matter of either it's all OK or none of
• 37:57
  it's OK as Candace tries to make out.
• 37:59
  And I'll remind you again, a woman choosing to say I would
• 38:02
  like to sleep with this person on this occasion does not mean
• 38:05
  she's consenting to being sexualized by any person at any
• 38:08
  time. I would agree with Candace that
• 38:10
  women are absolutely still objectified and sexualized today
• 38:13
  and that that often happens without the consent of those
• 38:16
  woman, women or in some cases children involved.
• 38:19
  And yes, I'm looking at all those disgusting people who
• 38:21
  count down to when celebrity girls turn 18.
• 38:24
  You are disgusting. Do better.
• 38:26
  But again, surely Candace has to realise the objectification
• 38:29
  comes from men and misogynists and their harmful attitudes
• 38:32
  towards women, right? It's not feminists doing that.
• 38:36
  She can't blame feminists for the actions of misogynists.
• 38:39
  How can she not see that? The next clip is super revealing
• 38:41
  though in regards to Candace and her mindset.
• 38:44
  Since 1950s, since the sexual revolution, women have gotten
• 38:48
  exponentially more freedom and more choice.
• 38:52
  And for me as a mother and as a woman, having the freedom to
• 38:57
  choose what I do to make my own destiny makes me infinitely more
• 39:02
  happy than, say, back before the sexual revolution, when I
• 39:06
  couldn't get a bank account, couldn't get a home loan,
• 39:09
  couldn't work outside the home, couldn't travel around without a
• 39:11
  man, couldn't control my own reproduction.
• 39:15
  So I feel that happiness, personally.
• 39:17
  My belief is tied to our ability to have freedom.
• 39:21
  And I think that in the United States, protecting freedom and
• 39:25
  our individual freedoms is what's going to lead us to
• 39:28
  happiness. Did.
• 39:30
  You go to college. Absolutely.
• 39:31
  Did you? Yes, I did.
• 39:33
  So you have a degree. Absolutely.
• 39:34
  Now, when you went to college, did you go to college because it
• 39:38
  was simply something that you wanted to do, or did you think
• 39:40
  that I have to go to college because in order to get a job I
• 39:43
  have to have a college degree? I went to college for art
• 39:46
  because I was fascinated with art.
• 39:48
  OK. Just answering my question, did
• 39:51
  you go to, was that the only reason I went to college or did
• 39:53
  you think that I might want to do something in art so I have to
• 39:55
  go to college like for my career?
• 39:57
  I went to school because I wanted to expand my horizons.
• 40:01
  I mean, I think that's why most people go to university.
• 40:04
  That's actually, that's actually not true.
• 40:06
  A lot of I, I went and I think a lot of people go because there's
• 40:08
  a, a pressure that if you don't go to college, you're going to
• 40:11
  be a failure. The choice.
• 40:12
  I think the woman speaking to her brings up some fantastic
• 40:15
  points and Candace's response is simply, well, I never felt like
• 40:18
  I had a choice of my own life life.
• 40:20
  And that maybe suggests why she wants to take choice away from
• 40:23
  other women. Which is really damn sad, isn't
• 40:25
  it? I just can't wrap my head around
• 40:27
  a woman feeling powerless in her own life.
• 40:29
  So her reaction is 1 is to want to make other people feel
• 40:32
  powerless too? That's just damn cruel.
• 40:35
  It's like she can't actually fathom what it's like for a
• 40:37
  woman to actually be making her own choices and being happy
• 40:39
  about it. And that's really damn sad in a
• 40:42
  way. It doesn't excuse the harm she's
• 40:44
  caused to so many people through her work, but it does make me
• 40:47
  pity her and explain it a bit. Everything's a choice, so OK,
• 40:51
  taking away choices doesn't make people happier.
• 40:53
  Taking away I'm actually I'm happy.
• 40:55
  I'm disagreeing with you on the idea that people are feeling
• 40:58
  more free by financial pressure. I think financial pressure makes
• 41:01
  people feel remarkably less free.
• 41:02
  So you want? No bank accounts.
• 41:04
  Again, women not to have credit cards.
• 41:05
  I'm not saying that women shouldn't have access to credit
• 41:08
  cards or banking accounts. You're putting words in my
• 41:09
  mouth. So why don't you respond to the
• 41:11
  words that I'm saying? Well, less financial pressure.
• 41:13
  If I don't have a bank account, that's a lot less financial
• 41:15
  pressure, I guess, right? Financial pressure in terms of
• 41:17
  most people that go to college and I'm I'm counting myself
• 41:21
  among them. It's because typically in order
• 41:24
  to get the job that you're being sold is going to make you
• 41:26
  infinitely happier and infinitely more free.
• 41:28
  It just requires a college degree and.
• 41:31
  Yeah, so here she's falling into this trap I see so many
• 41:33
  conservatives fall into. They have a problem with
• 41:36
  capitalism because that's what she's talking about here.
• 41:38
  It's capitalism, but they don't want to admit that it's
• 41:40
  capitalism, so they blame it on women.
• 41:42
  Feminism. This happens so damn often.
• 41:44
  Look at my videos on Ali Beth Stuckey, Rachel Wilson, Lauren
• 41:48
  Chen, and the guys on the Whatever podcast.
• 41:50
  It's all the same story. They complain about working and
• 41:53
  money and pressures, and it's like, OK, so you have an issue
• 41:55
  with capitalist society exploiting its workers.
• 41:57
  Yeah. And they're like, oh, no, no,
• 41:59
  no, no. I'm going to find a way to blame
• 42:01
  this on women. And it makes no logical sense.
• 42:04
  And I am saying that financial restraints and debt doesn't make
• 42:08
  people feel more free. Let's.
• 42:10
  Eliminate the debt. Let's eliminate colorship.
• 42:12
  Maybe we should have free college here in the US.
• 42:14
  That sounds great. Great idea, Candace.
• 42:16
  I love that idea. OK.
• 42:17
  Love it. Champion.
• 42:20
  Champion for the people. Girl very nice.
• 42:25
  This was actually really funny and I loved how she twisted this
• 42:27
  back on her. I thought this was brilliant.
• 42:29
  But also surely Candace realises that there are different kinds
• 42:32
  of freedom, right? Like how I'd rather be in debt
• 42:34
  than have no control over my body's sexuality, day-to-day
• 42:37
  life and reproductive rights. That's an easy choice to me.
• 42:40
  But again, Candace needs to stop conflating capitalism and
• 42:43
  feminism. Sure, they're interlinked in
• 42:45
  some ways, but they're not the same, and you can't blame one
• 42:48
  group of people for the actions of another.
• 42:51
  My second claim is that no career will give women as much
• 42:54
  joy and fulfilment as raising the children.
• 42:57
  I'm sorry, but do any of us actually need to discuss this?
• 42:59
  It's ridiculous. As a child free woman, I can
• 43:01
  tell you that there are a few things in life which will bring
• 43:03
  me as much pain, pressure, mental turmoil, physical pain
• 43:07
  and genuine unhappiness as being forced to have children.
• 43:10
  I do not like children, I don't know how to look after children,
• 43:13
  I don't want to be around children, I have no desire to
• 43:16
  have children, and my body is physically not made for carrying
• 43:18
  children because of my anatomy and my uterus issues.
• 43:22
  If I got pregnant, it would likely kill me or the baby or
• 43:25
  cause irreparable harm to my body.
• 43:28
  How is that supposed to bring me joy?
• 43:30
  And having children isn't just about you.
• 43:32
  It also affects your partner, your family, and of course the
• 43:34
  children you bring into this world.
• 43:37
  I thoroughly believe that all children brought into this world
• 43:40
  should be thoroughly wanted, and to force someone to come to this
• 43:43
  world with parents who don't want them and can't look after
• 43:45
  them is unfair on every single person involved.
• 43:48
  Mostly the children. The children that apparently
• 43:51
  conservatives like Candace, someone care so much about.
• 43:53
  Except clearly they don't. Again, though, why does she care
• 43:57
  so much about what other women do with their bodies?
• 43:59
  She's got her kids and they supposedly make her happy, so
• 44:02
  why does she care what I or anyone else do with our
• 44:04
  uteruses? It doesn't affect her at all,
• 44:06
  does it? But if her kids make her so
• 44:08
  happy and jobs are so awful, I ask again, why is she working
• 44:12
  right now? Get back home to your kids and
• 44:14
  shut up. Like a good little woman is
• 44:16
  supposed to do, apparently. Unless, of course, you want to
• 44:19
  admit that women can find happiness in more than one
• 44:21
  place, and that women should have a choice of how they spend
• 44:24
  their time, and that women can be mothers and work and do so
• 44:27
  much more if that's what they choose.
• 44:31
  Yeah, it's inherent because it's biological.
• 44:33
  So I think when we think about things that are inherent, I
• 44:35
  think biology is a good thing to start with, right?
• 44:38
  Sure, and again, my biology says I'm not made for carrying
• 44:40
  children, so I guess inherently, despite being a woman, I would
• 44:45
  not be happier having kids in the job by her logic, right?
• 44:48
  I do not think that saying women can decide whether or not they
• 44:53
  want to go to work or have children is problematic.
• 44:56
  What I'm saying to you is that women will get the most
• 44:58
  fulfilment from having a family. So she's just twisting things
• 45:02
  here because she's clearly OK with choice.
• 45:04
  She's making a choice herself, but she's projecting what may
• 45:08
  perhaps be her own values onto other women, and that's not OK.
• 45:12
  What about women who suffer from postpartum depression or
• 45:14
  postpartum psychosis? Are they happier?
• 45:17
  What about women who suffer complications during pregnancy
• 45:19
  and end up with severe scarring, having hysterectomies or other
• 45:23
  complications? Are they happier?
• 45:25
  Women who die in childbirth, are they happier?
• 45:28
  Women who are forced to carry the child of someone who raped
• 45:30
  or abused them? Children who are forced to birth
• 45:32
  children as a result of rape? Women who have babies and
• 45:36
  children who die? What about women who never want
• 45:38
  a kids who are forced to have them and hate every moment of
• 45:40
  their lives and regret everything about being a parent?
• 45:43
  Are they happier? She might say there are these
• 45:46
  exceptions. And yes, some of these cases are
• 45:48
  rare, but they're not as rare as they should be.
• 45:51
  And even if they are rare, they're things we absolutely
• 45:53
  have to think about. Just because a woman is in a
• 45:55
  minority, it doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter.
• 45:58
  Their experience doesn't matter. It does, and it is just as valid
• 46:02
  and just as important. Pregnancy and childbirth put an
• 46:05
  immense strain on a person's body, and it's not something any
• 46:09
  person should be forced to go into lightly.
• 46:12
  But it is utter insanity for me to reflect on that and say that
• 46:17
  I would have rather published Blackout than to have my three
• 46:19
  children. Well, why is it rather, you see
• 46:21
  what I'm saying? It's it's it's not rather, I'm
• 46:23
  just saying. That's your claim.
• 46:25
  It will it. Will be more fulfilled, yes.
• 46:28
  She says that for her personally, she'd rather have
• 46:30
  kids in her book. OK, but I'd rather have written
• 46:33
  my books than have kids. And I can say that with 100%
• 46:36
  confidence too, so I don't see why her opinion apparently
• 46:39
  matters more than mine. And so women who are neglecting
• 46:42
  that, who are neglecting the pathway to, you know, strive
• 46:45
  toward family because they think their career is going to hug
• 46:48
  them at night or they think that when they're on their deathbed,
• 46:50
  their career is going to come up next to them and say, you were
• 46:54
  so great to me. Well, sorry, but my career is
• 46:56
  not going to risk killing me, is it?
• 46:57
  I'm pretty sure I'd rather be on my deathbed at 90 surrounded by
• 47:00
  friends, reminisce, reminiscing about all the cool things I've
• 47:02
  done with my life than on my deathbed at 33 because an
• 47:05
  unwanted pregnancy is killing me and I'm regretting that I was
• 47:08
  forced into this choice and now a kid has grow up without a
• 47:11
  mother even if it survives. And OK, let's take my health
• 47:14
  issues out of this for a moment. I would much rather regret not
• 47:17
  having kids because it only hurts myself than risk
• 47:21
  regretting having kids and damaging that child in the
• 47:23
  process. Plus, how damn offensive is this
• 47:27
  to infertile people who do want kids?
• 47:29
  It's like saying to them, oh sorry mate but you'll never
• 47:31
  actually have a fulfilled life and you'll only be filled with
• 47:34
  regrets. You got to deal with it.
• 47:35
  Which is obviously not true at all.
• 47:38
  Obviously it can be super hard for people with fertility issues
• 47:40
  who want kids, but plenty of them go on to have super
• 47:43
  meaningful and fulfilled and amazing lives, and it's
• 47:45
  offensive and incorrect to imply that they won't or can't.
• 47:49
  The thing is though, and this this may be controversial, this
• 47:51
  is kind of what I was talking about in the beginning.
• 47:54
  This is kind of why I'm not really a fan of these videos,
• 47:56
  because in order to be click baity and controversial, people
• 47:59
  like Candice Owens of whoever's in the middle, including people
• 48:02
  I generally agree with, have to make big vague blanket
• 48:05
  statements that are inflammatory.
• 48:07
  And I don't think these kinds of videos are really helpful or
• 48:09
  educational to anyone. It's more about oh let's shock
• 48:12
  people and show various groups ganging up on others to show how
• 48:15
  certain people are dumb. Like like this claim right that
• 48:18
  Candace is making it is vague. It's purposefully controversial.
• 48:23
  But if I said one of my own beliefs in the same format, it
• 48:26
  would also be full of flaws and problems.
• 48:29
  So if I said something like my claim is I believe everyone is
• 48:32
  happier when they have the freedom to make their own
• 48:34
  choices. Sounds reasonable on the
• 48:36
  surface. I think a lot of you would agree
• 48:37
  with me. But even that is filled with so
• 48:39
  many damn flaws because it doesn't take into account when
• 48:43
  people make bad choices, irresponsible choices, dangerous
• 48:45
  choices. A person who chooses to keep
• 48:49
  taking heroin would arguably less happy and have a low
• 48:52
  quality of life than a person who is forced into rehab by her
• 48:56
  family and gets sober and goes on to live a happy life.
• 48:58
  Right? But then we could also argue
• 49:00
  that a woman who chooses to go into rehab for herself is
• 49:03
  happier than than a woman who is forced to go to rehab.
• 49:07
  So it's all complicated. And of course there's
• 49:09
  exceptions. There's nuance, it's complex is
• 49:12
  what I'm trying to say. And even if we account for all
• 49:14
  this, there might be some people who bring in philosophical
• 49:17
  arguments about like, well, do we even have free will in the
• 49:19
  1st place? Or is it all an illusion?
• 49:20
  Is everything predetermined? Like, you know, so obviously my
• 49:24
  general point would be that the general population is happier
• 49:28
  when we allow mostly freedom of choice for people over their own
• 49:32
  bodies and lives and well-being. But of course, law should still
• 49:35
  be in place to protect people as a whole.
• 49:37
  And then even then when we start talking about that, it gets
• 49:40
  complicated again because who decides what should or shouldn't
• 49:44
  be a personal freedom? Who decides what the laws are?
• 49:46
  How do we decide how to enforce these?
• 49:48
  It's so damn complicated. And that's one of the reasons
• 49:51
  I'm not a fan of this kind of debate format.
• 49:55
  I know some people love it and can be extremely good at it, and
• 49:57
  no shame for them, but for me it's just not really enough time
• 50:00
  to dive into the nuance of an issue and explore it in an
• 50:03
  interesting or useful way. But that rant aside, let's get
• 50:06
  back to the video. Have children.
• 50:09
  I mean, you are actively doing that right now.
• 50:11
  And I want to be very clear because I'm actively doing it
• 50:13
  right now. I would be someone that you
• 50:15
  would call an exception because I get to work from home.
• 50:17
  I get to wake up in the morning. I don't have a boss, right?
• 50:19
  I don't have to go into the office from 9:00 to 5:00.
• 50:22
  I get to then therefore spend the entire morning with my
• 50:25
  children. OK, but surely you can see that
• 50:26
  this is not an argument for banning women from the
• 50:29
  workforce, but instead an argument for allowing parents to
• 50:31
  have more flexible working hours and conditions, more support and
• 50:36
  social care. It's not an argument against
• 50:38
  feminism. Again, it's an argument against
• 50:40
  capitalism and an argument for social care.
• 50:44
  And also, sorry, but exceptions do matter too.
• 50:48
  If we revoke the rights for women that Candace and others
• 50:50
  want us to revoke, does she not realise that while she might see
• 50:54
  herself as the exception now, she wouldn't be then.
• 50:56
  She'd still be banned from working, from earning money,
• 50:59
  from having her own bank account, from being safe from
• 51:01
  sexual violence, from having control over her own body and
• 51:04
  health. She sees that right?
• 51:06
  It's giving. Not like the other girls but way
• 51:09
  more short sighted. Taught that being a woman is not
• 51:12
  enough and that you have to also aspire to be a man.
• 51:14
  And that's the irony. It's like a psychological
• 51:16
  conditioning. What feminists went out and did
• 51:18
  and said is that in order for women to have value, women need
• 51:20
  to be like men. And I'm saying that actually
• 51:23
  women and men are biologically different.
• 51:25
  There are differences in our behaviour.
• 51:27
  There are differences in our desires.
• 51:29
  And I think evidence of the feminist movement, by the way,
• 51:31
  shows us that because even when women enter into the college
• 51:35
  education, the pathways of career that we choose are
• 51:40
  different from men because we're biologically different, right?
• 51:43
  Yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Now, I'm not going to pretend
• 51:45
  there aren't any biological differences, because of course
• 51:48
  there are. But I said before, and I'll say
• 51:49
  again, humans of different sexes are more similar than they are
• 51:53
  different. Outliers exist, of course, but
• 51:56
  they're the exceptions, not the rule.
• 51:58
  And I think we need to look at more factors in just biology
• 52:00
  when looking at things like career paths, right?
• 52:02
  I think that's obvious. Look at socialisation, family
• 52:05
  presses, who? The education and system appeals
• 52:08
  to. I've spoken before and I think
• 52:11
  it's my Rachel Wilson book review video about how STEM
• 52:14
  academic resources are still catering more for young boys
• 52:17
  than girls, which suggests why maybe more boys choose those
• 52:20
  fields, even if a lot of the time the girls are outperforming
• 52:23
  them academically. Kristen Anderson writes about
• 52:26
  this in her book Modern Misogyny, saying much has been
• 52:29
  made in the last two decades about getting girls more
• 52:31
  interested in math and science. Unfortunately, school materials
• 52:34
  do little to encourage girls interest in these fields.
• 52:37
  Like most materials, life science textbooks show pictures
• 52:39
  of males more than females. Males are positioned in active
• 52:42
  roles more frequently than females, and the accomplishments
• 52:45
  of women are less likely to be featured.
• 52:47
  High school chemistry textbooks also show more pictures of males
• 52:50
  than females. But what about the other claims
• 52:53
  from Candace? Are women trying to be men?
• 52:56
  No, they're just being adults. They're just people who do
• 53:00
  regular things that adult people do.
• 53:03
  I don't work hard and pay my bills because I want to be a
• 53:05
  man. I do it because I don't want to
• 53:06
  be homeless and living on the street.
• 53:08
  I chose this career particularly not because I thought, oh so
• 53:11
  many Youtubers, I could be a man You YouTube too.
• 53:15
  I chose it because I enjoy it. Candace, did you write a book
• 53:19
  because you wanted to be a man like those male authors?
• 53:23
  No, you did it because you had something to say.
• 53:24
  Because that's what people do. This idea of regular women
• 53:28
  wanting to be a man is what's devaluing, not women having
• 53:31
  choices in the 1st place. I shouldn't have to give up
• 53:33
  anything about my femininity in order to be an independent
• 53:36
  adult. And and to suggest that I do is
• 53:39
  so damn misogynistic. It's just nonsense.
• 53:43
  Having success or not having children or I don't know, doing
• 53:46
  things around the house or whatever.
• 53:47
  Like DIY doesn't make me or anyone else any less of a woman.
• 53:53
  And so I think and you keep bringing up the 1950s, which
• 53:56
  because. It was right before the.
• 53:57
  Fact. I just don't know if that's the
• 53:58
  period of time that you want to go back to.
• 54:01
  No, it's. Just I'm just going back to the
• 54:02
  first wave of feminism. You want to undo progress that's
• 54:05
  been done, so I'm curious as to what decade you'd be comfortable
• 54:09
  living in, especially as a black woman.
• 54:12
  OK, so we're going to park aside the race politics.
• 54:15
  So I want to I want to focus on. OK, then, as a woman, what
• 54:19
  period of time do you want to go back?
• 54:20
  To I found this bit really interesting because I'm sorry,
• 54:22
  but this just shows Candace's ignorance.
• 54:25
  When we're talking about feminist issues, we absolutely
• 54:27
  just cannot ignore or put aside issues to do with race, just as
• 54:32
  we can't ignore issues facing trans women, women with
• 54:34
  disabilities, women of different sexualities, and so many other
• 54:37
  groups. Understanding that feminism
• 54:40
  needs to be intersectional is essential to understanding the
• 54:43
  need for feminism in the 1st place.
• 54:45
  Raffia Zakari defines white feminism as a white feminist is
• 54:49
  someone who refuses to consider the role that whiteness and
• 54:52
  racial privilege attached to it have played and continue to play
• 54:56
  in universalizing white feminist concerns, agendas and beliefs as
• 55:00
  being those of all of feminism and all of feminists.
• 55:04
  You do not have to be white to be a white feminist.
• 55:06
  It's also perfectly possible to be white and a feminist and not
• 55:10
  be a white feminist. Term describes a set of
• 55:12
  assumptions and behaviours which have been baked into mainstream
• 55:15
  western feminism rather than describing the racial identity
• 55:18
  of its subjects. And it seems to be, in my view,
• 55:22
  that Candace Owens in this sense, could almost be described
• 55:25
  as a white anti feminist in her unwillingness to understand the
• 55:28
  interconnectedness between race and gender.
• 55:31
  As Raphael goes on to write, the assumption that women of colour
• 55:34
  and white women all stand at the same disadvantage, disadvantages
• 55:38
  against men, is flawed. As Raphael goes on to write, the
• 55:41
  assumption that women of colour and white women all stand at the
• 55:44
  same disadvantages against men is flawed.
• 55:47
  All white women enjoy white racial privilege.
• 55:50
  Women of colour are affected not simply by gender inequality, but
• 55:54
  also by racial inequality. And this is something that we
• 55:57
  absolutely 100% cannot ignore in this discussion.
• 56:01
  We can't just read it to the side because it's always there.
• 56:04
  Raffia's book Against White Feminism is an interesting read
• 56:07
  and if you want to find out more about it, again I've links
• 56:11
  straight in the video description and all sources to
• 56:13
  buy it. I have stated before I have a
• 56:15
  few issues with this book. She has a few issues around
• 56:18
  shaming sexually active women, misunderstanding asexuality, and
• 56:22
  there are a few factual inaccuracies about historic
• 56:25
  events, especially in the UK, which lead to me disagreeing
• 56:28
  with a few of her conclusions because the facts backing them
• 56:31
  up are wrong. However, overall it's a good
• 56:34
  book. I agree with her premise.
• 56:35
  I think she brings up some damn good points and as a white
• 56:39
  woman, it's, it's uncomfortable to read as it should be because
• 56:42
  it's making me question my own experiences, my own thoughts, my
• 56:46
  own ideologies, how I speak about these topics and I, I
• 56:50
  think that's really damn important.
• 56:52
  One of my favourite books on intersectional feminism, though,
• 56:55
  which I don't have those issues with, is Mickey Kendall's Hood
• 56:57
  Feminism, Notes from the Women that movement forgot.
• 57:00
  In that book, she points out that since its inception,
• 57:03
  mainstream feminism has been insisting that some women have
• 57:05
  to wait longer for for equality. That once one group, usually
• 57:09
  white women, achieves equality, then that opens the way for all
• 57:12
  of the women. But when it comes right down to
• 57:14
  it, mainstream white feminism often fails to show up for women
• 57:18
  of colour. When the obstacles you face vary
• 57:21
  by race and class, then so too do your priorities.
• 57:24
  After all, for when who's struggling to keep themselves
• 57:27
  housed, fed and clothed, it's not a question of working hard
• 57:30
  enough. They're leaning in, but not in
• 57:33
  search of equal pay or having it all.
• 57:35
  Their quest for equal pay starts with equal access to education
• 57:38
  and opportunity. They need feminism to recognise
• 57:41
  that everything that affects women is a feminist issue,
• 57:44
  whether it be food insecurity, access to transit, schools, or a
• 57:47
  living wage. And I can't help but feel like
• 57:49
  Candace Owens just needs to listen to people like this more.
• 57:51
  She can't just put race politics aside because everything is
• 57:55
  connected and it is important here.
• 57:58
  Next up, I just want to play this clip because it's perfect.
• 58:00
  Again, no notes. I may get angry I guess, when
• 58:03
  you mention that someone should have a children or you're trying
• 58:06
  to impose a lifestyle onto people that you want to live.
• 58:09
  Which I think is kind of funny because as someone who's anti
• 58:11
  feminism, you practise it more than most women do.
• 58:15
  I mean, every time you get on your podcast, every time you
• 58:17
  collect a cheque, you're practising feminism.
• 58:20
  OK, that's what you think. No, that's what it is.
• 58:22
  Because without feminism you wouldn't be able to exist.
• 58:24
  Yeah, people keep saying I hate when people say that, but it's
• 58:26
  just the truth shows that you you haven't done the research to
• 58:29
  even understand where the. Or you don't know history.
• 58:31
  The only person here who hasn't done the research is Candace
• 58:34
  Owens herself. For example, Candace talks a lot
• 58:37
  about wanting to go back to like the 1950s, but does she not
• 58:39
  realise that as a black woman she would have literally not
• 58:42
  been allowed to vote then? Leah Goodlow writes of this bit
• 58:45
  of history. Despite the ratification of the
• 58:48
  19th Amendment, many women in the United States still could
• 58:51
  not vote. White primaries, erstwhile
• 58:53
  literacy tests, and threats of violence blocked hundreds of
• 58:56
  thousands of Southern black women from casting ballots in 13
• 59:00
  states. Poll taxes impeded voting for
• 59:02
  access for poor women of all backgrounds, but any woman there
• 59:05
  who lacked an independent income found herself vulnerable to
• 59:08
  disenfranchisement if her husband or father refused to pay
• 59:11
  the tax. Most Native American women
• 59:13
  remained ineligible to vote until the 1924 Indian
• 59:18
  Citizenship Citizenship Act. Both voting rights and women's
• 59:21
  rights were more fully realised in and around 1965, when the
• 59:26
  Voting Rights Act established effective federal oversight of
• 59:29
  elections and forged the strongest protections yet for
• 59:31
  American voters of all backgrounds.
• 59:35
  After its passage, African Americans in southern states,
• 59:37
  the larger group of persons stood no, I thought in Rights in
• 59:39
  the United States flocked the polls, electing African American
• 59:43
  candidates to local and state offices and transforming social
• 59:46
  movements, political parties and policy agendas.
• 59:50
  So like I say, before 1963, Candace would probably been
• 59:53
  excluded from this basic right. So the fact that she wants to
• 59:56
  pretend she can distance herself from feminism and her race and,
• 1:00:00
  you know, race, politics or whatever she wants, like, it's
• 1:00:02
  just ignorant. It's completely ignorant.
• 1:00:05
  Because it means that you don't understand that a bunch of
• 1:00:07
  government officials in the CIA funded the feminist movement so
• 1:00:11
  for all. So I'm not going to address this
• 1:00:12
  bit here, but I will say this comes up a few times in Rachel
• 1:00:16
  Wilson's book, along with some absolutely wild conspiracy
• 1:00:18
  theories about feminists being double worshippers and joining
• 1:00:22
  man murdering cults. So if you're interested, you
• 1:00:24
  might want to check out that video too.
• 1:00:25
  It's also linked to the source document.
• 1:00:27
  But with this, I'm just going to leave this video here for today.
• 1:00:30
  There's still about an hour of this kind of science debate
• 1:00:32
  left, but I just wanted to see if any of you guys would be
• 1:00:35
  interested in watching this before I go ahead and make that.
• 1:00:39
  I'm trying to stop making my videos quite so long and
• 1:00:41
  exhausting myself. So if I do make this, I'm going
• 1:00:44
  to do it in parts. The next parts are wild, though.
• 1:00:46
  Like I said, she talks about we live in a matriarchy.
• 1:00:48
  It's just absolutely ridiculous. And so if you want to see that,
• 1:00:51
  please let me know down in the comments.
• 1:00:54
  In the meantime, if you like this video, please don't forget
• 1:00:56
  to give it a like. If you would like to help
• 1:00:58
  support my work, you can do by either by merch.
• 1:01:00
  I've got some really cool new designs available.
• 1:01:02
  I've got my new book, which is actually probably out now as
• 1:01:05
  you're watching this, which is very exciting.
• 1:01:07
  I haven't done the announcement video yet, but I think it's
• 1:01:08
  going to be out at this time, which is fun.
• 1:01:10
  It is called outside. It is available as a hardback
• 1:01:13
  physical book or an ebook book. And if you buy the hardback
• 1:01:16
  because it's a little pricey to print, then you also will get a
• 1:01:19
  download link to a free audiobook version.
• 1:01:22
  Or you can just buy the audiobook version on my website
• 1:01:25
  too. Yeah, OK.
• 1:01:27
  Right. I think, Oh, you can also spot
• 1:01:29
  my channel through Patreon, which is really fun.
• 1:01:30
  And at the higher tiers there you get exclusive stickers and
• 1:01:33
  art prints and photography prints and cool stuff sent out
• 1:01:36
  to you. So I really, really love that
• 1:01:37
  about Patreon. And yeah, that's I think we done
• 1:01:40
  for today. So thank you so much for your
• 1:01:41
  time. I appreciate you so much and
• 1:01:43
  I'll see you guys again soon. Bye.