Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 017 - Catherine Howard - The Promiscuous Queen

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017 - Catherine Howard - The Promiscuous Queen · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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  Speaker 3: Learn more and apply at WOWSOM dot education, WAUSM dot education.
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  Speaker 2: Hi everybody, and welcome back to Hooded What Now, the
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  Speaker 2: history podcast that is not your history class with me
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  Speaker 2: your dangerous host, Kertie Charlewood, dirtationer.
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  Speaker 1: And reader of books. So we are back. We are back.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We are again bonus episode because we are going to
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  Speaker 1: get through all of these six Tutor Queens before the
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  Speaker 1: end of this month. So if you don't know, and
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you're coming into this blind, it is Women's History Month,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and I decided I'm going to discuss all of these
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: six tuer queens. They're going concert, I don't care. We're
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: all the six wives of Henry the Eighth. They're all
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: getting their own episode. So the more I reading to
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  Speaker 1: Catherine Howard and the more I researched, and it just
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: made me angrier and angrier maybe not maybe angry is
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the wrong word. Maybe just like frustrated, because over the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks we've had people trying to gaslight victims.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Women have been kidnapped in murder while walking home. We've
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: been dealing with racially and fetishe motivated crimes against women,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and it's all been It's been a lot this month.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, and here's the thing. I'm single now.
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  Speaker 1: And because that's now, that information is now widely available.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Because my Facebook star has changed, men now think it's
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: perfectly acceptable to sinry, ancelass it digpics through Facebook. I mean,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they should send it in other ways.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, why, like, unless you're sending me
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: addictic look it up dikdik or a duck peck, which
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: is literally just a picture of a duck. Like that's
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: funny right to an extent, It's just weird Facebook. Like
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  Speaker 1: sometimes I alldd people on Facebook because of my previous
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: job and things like that, and as such, quite a
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: lot of people know me. But sometimes and it could
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: be someone who've worked with or something like that, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I forget people's names all the time, which is really
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: bad when you talk about history. But and so that
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: people add me and I'm like, hey, okay, and then
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: next thing you know, it's what's a good looking women
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: like you doing single and like this is Facebook. I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: can find your mom or your sister or your boss,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: like I can find I'm a millennial on the Internet.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I can find these things. And I will retaliate because
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I if I don't ask for it, don't send it
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  Speaker 1: to me, Like why anyway? But yeah, I know, I
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  Speaker 1: know what you're thinking, your jibber jabber. In fact me
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and I will. So let's get into our sources. So
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: we have Katherine Howard, Henry the eighth Slandered Queen by
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Connor Burne, These Six Wives of Henry the Eighth by
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Antonia Fraser, the Six Lives of Henry eight by Alison
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Ware and Katherine Howard Henry's Fifth Failure by d Lawrence Young,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and Katherine Howard A tutor Conspiracy by Joanna Denny. So
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: let's start at the beginning, shall be. Katherine Howard was
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: born in Lambeth sometime between fifteen eighteen and fifteen twenty four,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: although we usually go with fifteen twenty three is the
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: sort of general consensus. So Catherine is one of Lord
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Edmund Howard Joyce Culpeper's six children, and you're thinking six,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: that's a lot, Okay, but her mother already had five
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: children by her first husband, Ralph Lee, which made Katherine
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: her mother's ten child. Catherine's father was one of twenty children.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: This is a family tree that just takes up the
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: whole page, like this is a book. So Thomas Howard,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the second Duke of Norfolk, and Elizabeth Tilney had ten
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: children together, but his mother had three children from her
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: previous marriage to Sir Humphrey Bourgier, and then Thomas Howard
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: had another seven children with Agnes Tilney, so there's a
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: lot of Howard's around. It was a good view. And
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: because they are aristocracy, you'd think they'd be a bit wealthier,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: but they're not. Oh yeah. Catherine Howard was actually Anne
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Boleyn's cousin Jane Seymour as well. So back in the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: sixteenth century, in the fifteen hundreds, it was pretty normal
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to go send your child to board with someone else.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: They would go raised by another family and be educated
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: by them. We saw this with Anne Boleyn when she
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: went to Brussels. It was a normal thing. You send
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: your child away, they get educated by someone else. This
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: also builds sort of alliances and friendships, and that being said,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: it was more common with children from larger families. So
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Catherine's mum she dies and around about the time she's
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: ten years old, she and a bunch of her other
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: siblings are sent to live with Agnes Howard, her grandfather's
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  Speaker 1: second wife. So she's the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: usually households were pretty small back in the day, especially
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: at the time it was the end thing to have
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: like a small household. But the Dowager Duchess, who was
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: previously in Katherine of Arrogance household, and she held Anne
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Boleyn's train at her private wedding to Henry the eighth,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: She very much kept in learn with how things were
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: back in her day, so it's like more casual, but
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the ages of the people there, and she had over
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: one hundred people underneath all the households she had, because
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: she had like more than one property anyway, So Catherine
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and her cousins they shared the maid's dormitory and it
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: was very much communal living, so there would be like
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: two or three to EBITs, which was very normal for
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the time, kind of like a boarding school that wasn't
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: run very well. In the girl's dormitory, girls would often
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: bring their sweethearts back. So Catherine Howard, she was bubbly
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and excitable and giggly. She would be what we would
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: normally expect a teenager to be. A teenage girl, especially
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: she was easily distracted, and she would make jokes, and
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: she loved animals. Under the tutelage of the Dowager Duchess,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: who wasn't super into the higher education of women, and
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: in fairness, Catherine, as far as we know, wasn't really
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: into that kind of thing anyway. She wasn't really into academics.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: But Catherine got effectively a Christian upbringing, which would make
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: her a good wife for someone who was effectively worthy
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: of marrying into the Howard family. So she learned social graces,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the basics of household management, obedience, and good manners. Another
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: thing she also learned was music. Like at the time,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: being able to entertain was very very popular, and Henry
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: eight in his court, they very much promoted musical skill,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: as we said in last week's episode, like learning of
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: musical instruments was very much a done thing, which leads
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: us to ours Hall number one Henry Mannix. So he
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: is the music teacher employed by the Dewager Duchess to
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: teach the young ladies well music to be blunt, so
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to learn the virginals, which is kind
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: of like a keyboard instrument, like a piano thing. And
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: so Catherine and Mannix, they always stated that their relationship
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: was never consummated. And she's still you got to think
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: at this point, she's still in her early early teens
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: at least like and I mean early teens Mannix. But
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Mannix is believed to have known the secret parts of
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Catherine's body. So both Katherine and Mannix, they basically state
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that they had They did have sexual contact, they just
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: didn't consummate the relationship. She didn't lose her virginity, so
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Mannix was pressuring her to lose her virginity and it
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: made her uncomfortable and she didn't want to go that far,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: but she felt pressured to let him, and she was
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: mad that he would gossip with the servants about what
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: had gone on between the two of them, and as such,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: groomed her. And let's just hit the nail on the head.
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  Speaker 1: This is grooming, Like, we can't deny that he was
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: grooming her to allow his sexual advances and to discuss
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Catherine herself states that due to his well persistence or
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: whatever it was, she felt that she had to let
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: him see in touch the secret parts of her body.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So at one point the dowarder Duchess catches them together.
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  Speaker 1: The best information I could get was that it was
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: an embrace, but that could have been the more politically
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: correct term. So the Duchess basically orders that they are
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: never to be left alone. It wasn't the relationship itself
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  Speaker 1: that she was bothered by. As far as she was concerned,
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't acceptable for a Howard to marry a lowly
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: music teacher, because in general, the dowarder Duchess would just
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: turn a blind eye when the girls under her care
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: would experiment until until they married someone more suitable to
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: their station, being a Howard and all. So the relationship
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: with Mannix basically gets cut off when the doward of
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Duchess she loves her household and moves it away from Chest,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: away from Chessworth House and to Lambeth. The Duchess she
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: rarely goes to court where our townhouse in Lambeth it is.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like a mini court in itself, because
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: she was always getting visitors, which leads us to asshole
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: number two, Francis Durham. Francis, fun fact, was like a
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: distant cousin of the Howards, and he was a member
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: of the Duke of Norfolk's household. So this is the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: third Duke of Norfolk. The Duke was Catherine's uncle, and
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  Speaker 1: Durham quite enjoyed Catherine. Durham was actually, by all accounts,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: was quite handsome. Some would go as far as to
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: call him dashing, and as far as his prospects were concerned,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: he was definitely more befitting of a Howard. Some would
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: even say it's a good match. So Francis becomes a
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: secretary in her grandmother's household been about fifteen thirty seven
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and fifteen thirty nine, meaning that this young girl in
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: her early teens becomes sexually exploited by another man. And
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: this is the second time that a man in a
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: power of authority used his position in her household to
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: take advantage of her. And we think of how she
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: was raised, Like in the dormitory, girls would often bring
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: men back, and she was very aware of the liaisons
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that were happening around her, and it was very normal,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: it was normalized, and she had already been groomed via mannex,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: so when this comes along, she didn't really have a
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: choice because we were talking about a child here. She's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in her early teens, you know, she's still like, what
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: fifteen or something, And it is so easy to talk
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: about how she had an easy charm and such good
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: nature and how lovely she was. But we're talking about
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a girl from like age eleven or twelve, had older
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: men coming into her bedroom. How could she have had
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: a say in that? So Francis drem So Francis Deremy
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: pursues her and they allegedly become lovers. They do admit
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to some kind of relationship later on, and they refer
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: to each other as husband and wife, and he treated
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: her as a wife, like he entrusted her with his
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: money when he was away, and and all these kind
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of wifely duties. But their relationship ends when Mannix informs
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the dowager Duchess, So the Duke of Norfolk decides to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: dangle a second niece in front of Henry the eighth.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: So Catherine becomes a maid of honor for Anne of Cleaves,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and while she's at court, she gets to know a
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: cousin Thomas Culpepper, who is a gentleman of the King's
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: privy Chamber, which is like a super big deal, like
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: he runs the King's low it's a big it's a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: big deal. So Catherine and Thomas were getting along anyway,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and so there was rumblings about Thomas and Catherine getting
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: married because that would be a very very good match
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: for her, because their positions were quite well aligned. So
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Catherine becoming a lady in waiting was absolutely the Duke's idea.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: He wanted her there because he wanted her to catch
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the King's eye. He knew of the King's disapproval of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the marriage in general, because he wanted to pict his
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: own bride anyway that this would be, and with her
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: being so young, he was like, either way, she's got
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: time to catch his eye. So the more King Henry
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: was interested in Catherine, the greater the influence of the
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: House of Norfolk. What a surprise. So Henry is old
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and losing all of the power and the manliness which
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: he feels that he should have as a king because
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: he's a fucking narcissist, and he sees this young, bobbily
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: excitable like the epitome of youth. He is captivated by
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: it because she represents so much that he has lost.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: And Catherine is placed in front of the King in
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: so many instances to grab his attention because he's like
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: fifty at this point and she has, you know, a teenager.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So within months of her arriving at court, he does
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: what he does with everybody. He's playing the courtly game
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: of love, but he's he has less patience now, so
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he's skipping through like lots of the steps and he's
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: just constantly sending her gifts and jeweled an expensive cloth.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: After the marriage to Anne of Cleves is annulled three
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: weeks later, the very day he sends Thomas Cronwell to
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: be executed is the day he marries Catherine Howard the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: twenty eighth of July fifteen forty at Oatland's Perilous in Surrey.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: So the King and Catherine they have an extended honeymoon.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: The Howards, they think this will be great for them
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of them. They are definitely what's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the word fertile, There's a lot of Howard's. So if
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Katherine can provide a spare air, it gives their family power.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Henry himself. He is suffering from bouts of impotence, and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: he's got the ulcerated wound in his leg which is
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: just making it difficult for him to move. He's a
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: big guy, I mean, he was nearly twice the age
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of Catherine and he was fairly immobile. Ah, So Catherine
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: is pushed into this position where one she has to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: absolutely pretend that she knows nothing about sex nothing, and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: she a teenage girl, has to deal with Henry's tyrannical
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: nature and his mood swings. And she also has to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: try and be a stepmother, except she's younger than Mary Tudor,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and she tries to have some sort of relationship with Mary,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: but Mary's like, m no, you're a child. This is weird.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And because she feels like Mary isn't showing her any respect,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: she tries to remove two of her attendants, but it
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: does get to the point where the two of them
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: they at least treat each other cordially. Like there, but
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: she really enjoyed Princess Elizabeth, and they were supposed to
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: have gotten really well when they were together. She quite
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: liked being with you, the seven year old Elizabeth. So
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: while she's at court, she employs girls she'd known at
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Lambeth to serve her to be part of her household,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: which you could say is mistake number one, but maybe
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: she felt safety in numbers. And then she offers the
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: position of private secretary and usher to her chamber to
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Francis Durham and all of the Howards there. Opens keep
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: this secret, and it's more likely that she offers the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: position to him to keep him quiet. Many think that
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: he blackmailed her into getting the position. When Catherine and
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Henry were married for about six months, about six months
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: into the marriage, she would send Thomas culpit gifts and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: she'd meet him in private. Well I say it in private,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Lady Rochford was there, like she was there. So Catherine
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: is a girl who has an impotent husband and who
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: has been brought up to believe that sex and sexual
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: acts is how one shows affection to one another, like
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: that's what you do. And there was the man that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: she initially wanted to marry, Thomas Culpeper, And so throughout
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: their marriage, Catherine, it seems, was playing the courtly game
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of love with Thomas Culpepper. They never consummated any kind
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: of relationship. They didn't even see each other naked. There
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: was no sexual act there, but Catherine gave him gifts
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and they would meet in private, which was all arranged
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: by Lady Rochford, who was Jane Berlin, who is the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: same person who gave testimony against her husband George Berlin. Yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: exactly that resulted in him losing his head. So all
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: in all, Catherine seems to be managing to be like
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: out with this in public. When she's seen, she's perceived
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: as being a good queen, like you know, and good manners, polite,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: she's obedient to the king. So in summer fifteen Party one,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the court embarks on a royal progress to the North
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Country and while they're all the way, John la Sells
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: he goes to visit his sister Mary. He's a courtier
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: by the way, and he was like, hey, maybe you
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: should apply to be, you know, part of the Queen's household,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and she's like, oh no. She used to work for
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the Dowager Duchess and she was aware of everything that happened,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and being a gospy bitch, decided to go. She was
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: doing sexy time stuff with Mannix and six of term
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: stuff with Durham, and she blames Catherine for this. She's like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: it's her fault that they, you know, abused her, because
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it's fucking child abuse, Like it's child abus. I don't
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: go a fuck, it's chili abuse. Fuck you. So she
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: tells her brother that Mannix boasted that he knew Catherine's
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: privates from all others. Darream was so familiar with Catherine
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: before her marriage to the king that he shagged her
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: over one hundred times. And the Selles is like, I
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: must tell everyone because other because like keeping silent and
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: then someone finding out about it, he could be charged
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: for treason. He tells Archbishop Crammer, and then Crammer Crammer
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: wrote everything down in a letter and left it at
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: the King's pew and his chapels. So on the first
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: November fifteen forty one, the King Henry gets this letter
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: describing all the allegations against Catherine, and he is pissed,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: but he has no choice but to investigate them all.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: So the fact that Catherine wasn't pure, so everybody gets yeah.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: So basically Mannix gets tortured, Durham gets tortured, and they
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: both like confess everything, and Durham then confesses and then
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: dream mentions culpeper, who then gets tortured as well.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: So the king is mad because he expects his queen
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: to be pure when she comes in, and which is
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: bad enough, because he wants this you know, particular thing.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: But according to canon law, because Durham and and Catheryn
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: had sex and then they call it to their husband
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and wife, it could be see under canon law this
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: could be seen as a marriage, you know. But this
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: would have given Henry the opportunity to annul the marriage
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to Catherine. Yeah, this is a rangeful, angry man whose
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: lack of virility makes him an even worse piece of shit.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Because if Catherine was already married to Durham, then his
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: marriage to her would be invalid. And because Durham was
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: then employed by Catherine and then had access to her chamber,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: you know, it was seen that maybe this was their
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: attempt to continue on this relationship, even though Catherine denies
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: that there was any contract of marriage because she didn't
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: want to have sex with him, she didn't consent to it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: She basically tells the king her husband, I was raped,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: how could I agreed? And so Willderm is being tortured.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: He's like probably an attempt to save his skin. To
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: be honest, blurts out that the reason that they didn't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: continue our relationship was because because she had started a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: new relationship with Thomas Culpepper. So Culpepper, if he had
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: just he hadn't been such a fucking idiot, he might
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: have saved her from the shopping block and himself perhaps,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: But he blames Catherine and Lady Rochford, and that, you know,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: like Rochford provoked him to love the Queen, and I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: know he talks about the gifts and how he met
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Catherine in private under the watchful eye of Lady Rochford.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And it's really obvious to everybody that they did not
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: consummate their relationship, that it didn't go past words, it
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: didn't get that far. But the Neil and has fucking
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: coffin was that he intended to do ill will towards
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the Queen. He intended like he had the intention of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: fucking her, and that those feelings were reciprocated, which then
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: brings them under the umbrella of the fifteen thirty four
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Trees in Act. So it doesn't matter if Catherine and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Culpepper never actually boinked the fact that they both intended
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to meant that there was an intention to muddy the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: line of succession. Everyone who lived in the Duchess's household,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the dower of Duchess of Norfolk, they get all anyone
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: who had lived with her, They basically all get and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: they're interrogated about Catherine's past and all of their stories
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: basically aligned with one another. And then Larry Jane Rochford,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: she is basically telling everybody what they want to hear.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh, they were totally at it, yep, absolutely,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: But in the end it doesn't even matter because Catherine's
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: fate is now sealed because with this Treason's Act, it
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: allows Henry to condemned her for presumptive treason because she
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: intended to commit adultery. In November fifteen forty one, at
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Hampton Court Palace, Catherine Howard is arrested, but she breaks
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: from the guards and she fucking legs it. She's like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: fuck that for a game of soldier. She is holding
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: it into the corner. She's trying to get to the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: private Chapel Royal because Henry's at mass, and she is
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: screaming to the King for mercy, but he doesn't respond.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Derham and Culpeper. They are tried and condemned to death.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Durham is hung, drawn and quartered, and Culpeper is beheaded,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and both of their heads go on display on pikes
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: at London Bridge. Catherine is removed to Sion House with
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: a small staff. Catherine doesn't actually face a trial. She
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: gets condemned to death by an act of attainder signed
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: by her own husband's hand. And she was innocent of
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: any actual crime. But Henry the eight could have easily
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and all the marriage going. Oh well, technically she was
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: already married to Durham, blah blah blah, he could have
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: done that. Instead, he chooses to execute her because he's
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: mad that she wasn't in a pure and honest condition
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: when he married her. And so the night before her execution,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Catherine keeps practicing laying her head down on a block.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: She wants to make sure that she's doing it correctly.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: And at nine am on Monday, the thirteenth of February
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and fifteen forty two, at the Terror of London, Catherine Howard,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: fifth wife of Henry eighth, is beheaded. She was somewhere
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: between seventeen and nineteen years old, and she'd only been
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: married to Henry eighth for about eighteen months. Katherine Howard
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a legend effectively that her last words are, I die
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a queen, but I would rather have died the wife
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: of Culpepper. But no. What she does say is she
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: asks forgiveness for her sins and says that she deserved
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to die a thousand deaths for betraying the king who
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: had treated her so graciously. And you know it's generally
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the whole I will try and be nice and lady Rochford.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: She's executed immediatelyy rare after on Tower Green, and both
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: bodies are buried in an unmarked grave in the nearby
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: chapel of Saint Peter Adventula, where Anne and George Berlin
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: are also buried. Oh ends the story of Catherine Howard,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: fifth wife of Henry the eighth. So what do we
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: learn today? We learned that in suiter times child abuse
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: was absolutely fine, and that grimming someone and abusing them
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: forcing them into a position is completely okay those times,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: and that apparently not much has fucking changed. What is this?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Never trust your ex boyfriends that Katherine Howard is so
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: much more than the slutty one always portrayed this empty
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: headed bimbo and that she is, you know, and it's
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and the blame is quite usually placed on her in
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways when it's she is reacting normally
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: to the situation that she has constantly been put in,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and it fucking bugs me. If you like today's episode,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: feel free to rate and review on Apple Podcasts five
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: stars please and thank you. It just really helps on
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: like the other side of things. I don't care what
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: you say. You could say anything in the review, it
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter, but it just really helps in the busines
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: side to try and get the podcast promoted and shared
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: a lot more. You can follow on social media. I'm
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook who Did What Now pod?
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And then i am on Twitter with who Did What nopd,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: which is because there wasn't enough characters. Oh. If you
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: want to support the podcast in more ways, you can
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: go to patreon dot com Who Did What Now? I've
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: got and you'll get like bonus content videos. There'll be
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: bonus episodes coming from next month onwards. There's just there
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: just hasn't been time this month. Bonus content come and
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: soon and lot of stuff there and there's you know,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: all the other kind of stuff, and yeah, I just
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: want to thank everybody for listening. Welcome and I hope
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you have a great time. And in personal news, I'm
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: actually pretty excited because I have been saving for months months.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I tell you to get this play area for my kids.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: It's like a little Wendy house, but it's on stilts
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and it's got like a rock climbing bit and a
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: swing and and like a little slide, and I am
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: just so excited. I'm so happy that my kids are
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: going to have this to play with and because like
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: we can't go anywhere or do anything, and I'm finally
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll be honest with you, I always wanted
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: like a tree house or like my own den, and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: then my kids have it. As I'm living vicariously through that,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: but like this, this took so much saving since I
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: moved back home, and I am so excited, so excited
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: for them, and I so bad that I just can't
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: wait to see the look on their faces. So yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: because I'm picking them up from their dads tomorrow. They
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: were there a little longer this time because I'm my
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: week girl. She wasn't feeling well. But yeah, they're going
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: to be coming home tomorrow and they're going to see
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: They're going to see, they're going to see their new thing,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm so excited. The first time in a long time,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I've been able to do anything for my kids, And
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: with everything going on in the move and them having
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to deal with loving in two separate houses, it's been
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: it's been a lot on them, and I'm just happy
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to give them something that's theirs, specifically that they have
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: for themselves, and I think it's just going to be really,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: really great. I'm super excited for this whole thing. I'm
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: just I'm just I'm just really fucking excited. And on
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that note, that is my good news. And if you've
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: get anything that you want to share, actually, if there's
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: anything you want to share, you get any good news
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: or anything that's just making you feel a little bit
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: better in this pandemic, eight times you let me know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear it. And with that, I am
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: gonna say adios au revoir of Where Is My Friends? Goodbye,