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Bengals Booth Podcast: I Love It · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi again everybody. I'm Dan Hoard and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: the Bengals Boot Podcast the I Don't Care I Love
0:12
Speaker 1: It edition, as I discussed the Sexy Dexi trade, the
0:17
Speaker 1: Bengals free agent acquisitions, and this year's draft class with
0:21
Speaker 1: Robert Weintraub from the FTN Football Almanac and Cincinnati Magazine.
0:26
Speaker 1: The Bengals Boot Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps,
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Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's
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Speaker 1: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition
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Speaker 1: of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet or
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Speaker 1: computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the
0:59
Speaker 1: greatest thing since honoring teachers. I have the pleasure this
1:03
Speaker 1: week of being the guest speaker at the Hamilton County
1:07
Speaker 1: Education Foundations Celebrate Excellence event. Anthony Munoz has been involved
1:13
Speaker 1: for sixteen years and it's an annual breakfast that honors
1:17
Speaker 1: educators who do extraordinary work each and every day. This year,
1:22
Speaker 1: roughly two dozen of the Cincinnati area's finest teachers and
1:26
Speaker 1: administrators were honored. My eldest sister, Kim, was a high
1:30
Speaker 1: school Spanish and chemistry teacher for roughly forty years, and
1:34
Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, there is not a more
1:36
Speaker 1: important or noble profession than being a teacher. They rarely
1:41
Speaker 1: get the recognition they deserve, and it was great to
1:44
Speaker 1: see these everyday heroes get recognized in Hamilton County. Now,
1:50
Speaker 1: let's get to football. Some of the most insightful and
1:53
Speaker 1: entertaining commentary about the Bengals can be found at Cincinnati
1:57
Speaker 1: Magazine dot com. Robert Weintraub, a lifelong Bengals fan, writes
2:03
Speaker 1: about the team on a weekly basis during the season
2:06
Speaker 1: and occasionally in the off season. He's also among the
2:10
Speaker 1: writers each year of the FTN Football Almandac, the only
2:15
Speaker 1: NFL preseason guide that you ever need to purchase. I
2:19
Speaker 1: caught up with Robert this week. Robert, how did you
2:23
Speaker 1: get the Dexter Lawrence news and what was your reaction?
2:28
Speaker 2: Well, let's see, it was a Saturday night and I
2:31
Speaker 2: was in the shower, so that should give you some
2:33
Speaker 2: idea of my social life at the moment.
2:35
Speaker 3: And you know, I came out and.
2:37
Speaker 2: Had seventeen or so text messages and usually that's bad news,
2:42
Speaker 2: but in this case, it was extraordinary news that the
2:44
Speaker 2: Bengals had actually done the unthinkable and traded for Dexter
2:47
Speaker 2: Lawrence and traded their tenth overall pick for him.
2:49
Speaker 3: No less, you know, really excited obviously.
2:53
Speaker 2: The fact that the Bengals changed their ways so drastically
2:57
Speaker 2: was you know, profound a lot of ways, and I
3:01
Speaker 2: think welcome to most fans, including myself, and you know,
3:05
Speaker 2: even whether it works quote unquote in the long run,
3:09
Speaker 2: just the fact that they were willing to he can't
3:12
Speaker 2: achieve great things without a little bit of risk, and
3:15
Speaker 2: we see that in all walks of life and football.
3:18
Speaker 2: That's definitely true as well. So the fact that they
3:20
Speaker 2: were willing to do this and go outside their comfort
3:22
Speaker 2: zone and you know, make the move for the player
3:25
Speaker 2: that really they've died, been dying for for you know,
3:29
Speaker 2: a long time, that heliocentric force in the middle of
3:32
Speaker 2: the defensive line, and to have it be such a
3:35
Speaker 2: such an outsized player literally and figuratively in Dexter Lawrence,
3:40
Speaker 2: is just amazing, and you know, I think I speak
3:42
Speaker 2: for all of us when I can't wait to see
3:43
Speaker 2: how it plays out.
3:45
Speaker 1: Did you say heliocentric?
3:47
Speaker 3: I did say heliocentric.
3:48
Speaker 2: That means, you know, a gravitational force of that pulls
3:52
Speaker 2: everything to the Sun and orbits around it.
3:54
Speaker 3: So you know, he is the He is the new Sun.
3:57
Speaker 2: In the middle of that defense, Everything that the opposition
4:00
Speaker 2: will do will start with how do we stop Dexter Lawrence?
4:03
Speaker 2: How many blockers do we put on this guy? You know,
4:06
Speaker 2: he's been a double team eating machine his entire career,
4:11
Speaker 2: and that can only help everybody around him.
4:12
Speaker 3: Going all the way back to.
4:14
Speaker 2: The distant orbit of the secondary and working up close
4:17
Speaker 2: to the line as well.
4:18
Speaker 3: The linebackers will be.
4:18
Speaker 2: Better, obviously, the defensive edge rushers are going to see
4:22
Speaker 2: a lot more one on ones. The rest of the
4:24
Speaker 2: defensive pack old room is going to, you know, just
4:27
Speaker 2: from a snap standpoint, is going to have less work
4:31
Speaker 2: and higher quality when they're out there because of the
4:34
Speaker 2: rotation is now built around Dexter. It can only help
4:37
Speaker 2: in so many different ways.
4:39
Speaker 1: When you quantify how he impacts the entire defense. Is
4:43
Speaker 1: that really it? The fact that he commands double teams
4:46
Speaker 1: to that extent to start with.
4:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's where you begin an end. Whether
4:51
Speaker 2: he gets nine sacks like he did in twenty twenty
4:53
Speaker 2: four or you know, less than one like he did
4:55
Speaker 2: last year, is sort of beside the point, because you know,
4:59
Speaker 2: we know he brings past rush juice. Even last year
5:01
Speaker 2: he had I think we had him for like seventeen
5:03
Speaker 2: pressures and you know, close to double digit hits. I mean,
5:07
Speaker 2: he gets to the quarterback, whether or not he actually
5:09
Speaker 2: brings him down or not. But what he really does is,
5:12
Speaker 2: you know, occupy the entire attention of all five blockers,
5:15
Speaker 2: not just the guy who's lining up in the poor
5:18
Speaker 2: unfortunate center who has to go right up against him.
5:20
Speaker 2: And that's important to remember is that he is, you know,
5:24
Speaker 2: by tradition a nose tackle, but at three hundred and
5:27
Speaker 2: forty pounds, he also brings you what you know three
5:29
Speaker 2: and five texts can do as well, which is get
5:31
Speaker 2: you know, his body lateral and upfield and just blow
5:35
Speaker 2: up plays and blow up blocking schemes and let everybody
5:38
Speaker 2: else around him do what they tried to do. I
5:42
Speaker 2: think you saw with the Giants last year has been
5:44
Speaker 2: a lot of talk, of course, that his twenty twenty
5:46
Speaker 2: five season in New York it was not what it
5:50
Speaker 2: has been, uh, And there's that's certainly true in both
5:53
Speaker 2: counting and underlying stats. But I think some of it
5:55
Speaker 2: was they had a dead man walking as coach. He
5:58
Speaker 2: had the financial concert haunt with the front office. You know,
6:02
Speaker 2: the team had been pretty bad for a while, so
6:04
Speaker 2: there was partially that he had an elbow injury that
6:06
Speaker 2: obviously hindered him a lot. And I think they also
6:09
Speaker 2: decided that when they drafted Abdul Carter and gave them
6:12
Speaker 2: bookend edge rushers, the best way to go forward was
6:15
Speaker 2: to have Dexter occupy in the middle of the line
6:17
Speaker 2: and force one.
6:18
Speaker 3: On ones on the outside.
6:19
Speaker 2: You know, the Bengals don't have edges of quite that
6:21
Speaker 2: quality necessarily, but they're going to have a lot of
6:24
Speaker 2: guys looking to get a lot of one on one
6:26
Speaker 2: matchups and who can win those. And when you have
6:28
Speaker 2: Dexter inside, you know, taking up as much room physical
6:33
Speaker 2: room and blocking space and schemes as he does, that's
6:36
Speaker 2: that's really going.
6:37
Speaker 3: To be a real bonus for the rest of that line.
6:40
Speaker 1: He's twenty eight, he's got seven years of wear and
6:43
Speaker 1: tear in the NFL, So just how good is he?
6:46
Speaker 1: Is He still top five at his position?
6:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would certainly put him there, especially
6:52
Speaker 2: when you, like I said, you quantify him as sort
6:54
Speaker 2: of a nose tackle slash three tech tackle. In that sense,
6:58
Speaker 2: he's almost Suegen, you know.
7:01
Speaker 3: He also, Yeah, I hear a.
7:03
Speaker 2: Lot of people saying he's not as good as he
7:05
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty two or twenty three, and that's
7:07
Speaker 2: certainly true. But that's also in a way like saying, well,
7:10
Speaker 2: you know, Ted Williams wasn't quite as good after he
7:12
Speaker 2: hit four hundred in nineteen forty one.
7:14
Speaker 3: You know, when you're coming.
7:15
Speaker 2: Down from the elite of the elite status, you can
7:18
Speaker 2: still be really good and not quite hit those markers.
7:20
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, there's a certain amount of
7:22
Speaker 2: fans who are like, if we're trading the tenth pick,
7:24
Speaker 2: we got to get twenty twenty two Dexter Lawrence and
7:27
Speaker 2: just not getting that anymore. But you know, twenty eight
7:30
Speaker 2: is different than thirty three. You know, he turns twenty
7:34
Speaker 2: nine late in the season, but he's still, like I
7:36
Speaker 2: said before, he still did a lot of things last year,
7:38
Speaker 2: even with all the things stacked up against him that
7:40
Speaker 2: were really, really impressive. You got to imagine he's newly
7:44
Speaker 2: motivated now by a new team, a new deal, and
7:49
Speaker 2: you know, the idea to play with an offense that
7:51
Speaker 2: is so loaded. It's not quite like he enters every
7:54
Speaker 2: game thinking, you know, if I don't dominate this game,
7:57
Speaker 2: we're gonna lose.
7:57
Speaker 3: It's kind of like how probably Joe Burrow has felt
8:00
Speaker 3: the other direction.
8:00
Speaker 2: Going into a lot of these games, and now he's
8:03
Speaker 2: on a much more well rounded team.
8:05
Speaker 3: You know, we'll see how the end of the contract
8:07
Speaker 3: looks when he goes past thirty. Obviously, big guys don't
8:11
Speaker 3: necessarily age that well. But I think you're looking at.
8:13
Speaker 2: A freaking nature guy at the moment who's still going
8:15
Speaker 2: to provide pretty much everything the Bengals envisioned them getting.
8:19
Speaker 2: If not quite the dominant All Pro, unquestionable defensive player
8:23
Speaker 2: of the year, a character that he was, you know,
8:25
Speaker 2: in his early twenties, he's still certainly darn good and
8:28
Speaker 2: what the Bengals can really use.
8:30
Speaker 1: We're chatting with Robert Weintraub, who covers the Bengals for
8:32
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Magazine and writes about the NFL for the FTN
8:36
Speaker 1: Football Almanac, you said a little earlier that you like
8:39
Speaker 1: the deal even if it doesn't work out. And I'm
8:42
Speaker 1: glad you said that because I compare it in some
8:44
Speaker 1: ways to win. The Reds traded for Ken Griffy Junior.
8:48
Speaker 1: In the end, it didn't work out the way they
8:50
Speaker 1: thought he had all sorts of injuries. They never made
8:53
Speaker 1: the playoffs with Junior on the roster, but they traded
8:56
Speaker 1: for the best player in baseball in his prime. Picking
8:59
Speaker 1: up dext Lawrence for a team that desperately needs help
9:02
Speaker 1: at that position at the age of twenty eight is
9:05
Speaker 1: a great trade.
9:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think there's any question. And like I say,
9:09
Speaker 2: it works in so many different levels if we can
9:11
Speaker 2: forget just what he does on the field for a moment.
9:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you saw it close just with
9:16
Speaker 2: the locker room felt. You know, they felt seen as
9:20
Speaker 2: the kids say, you know, the fan base that goes
9:23
Speaker 2: out saying everybody was overjoyed by the idea that you know,
9:26
Speaker 2: here's a franchise that has been criticized, sometimes fairly, sometimes not,
9:29
Speaker 2: but certainly you know one that always felt like they
9:33
Speaker 2: were holding something back. We always want to reserve something
9:36
Speaker 2: for next year and the year after that, and we
9:38
Speaker 2: don't want to put ourselves in a position where, you know,
9:40
Speaker 2: we're going to the top of the league and salary
9:43
Speaker 2: cap and cash outlay and and you know, always kind of,
9:47
Speaker 2: you know, having almost a Depression era mindset of you know,
9:50
Speaker 2: the things that could be coming around the corner, we're
9:52
Speaker 2: afraid of. And they went all in instead, and they're saying,
9:56
Speaker 2: you know, what, to win in this league, sometimes you
9:58
Speaker 2: got to be bold, and that's not been the Bengals
10:00
Speaker 2: way before.
10:01
Speaker 3: But now they've done this, and they signed both Jamar
10:05
Speaker 3: Chason t Higgins at the same time.
10:07
Speaker 2: And you know, they have done a lot of other
10:09
Speaker 2: things that are most Unbengaled, like a ring of honor
10:12
Speaker 2: and you know, and indoor practice facility, things that don't
10:15
Speaker 2: necessarily show up on the field.
10:16
Speaker 3: But it's all part and parcel of sort of a
10:19
Speaker 3: new quote unquote Bengals, if you will.
10:21
Speaker 2: And you know, a large part of that, maybe all
10:23
Speaker 2: of it is because of Joe Burrow and because the
10:26
Speaker 2: fact that he turns thirty this year and they sense,
10:29
Speaker 2: you know, sands tacking through the hourglass a little bit,
10:32
Speaker 2: not that any window or whatever is closing, but they
10:35
Speaker 2: look at it and rightly so, I think, as here's
10:38
Speaker 2: our opportunity. The AFC is not this you know, dominant,
10:43
Speaker 2: awesome conference that has been years past. We have an
10:46
Speaker 2: opportunity here. The AFC North aspired three of the four
10:49
Speaker 2: coaches and not ours. Uh, there's a real shot to
10:53
Speaker 2: go forward right now. And you're doing your team and
10:55
Speaker 2: your fans into service by not doing that. And I
10:58
Speaker 2: think that's where prior critis has come from, not in
11:02
Speaker 2: the fact that the Bengals aren't trying to win, but
11:04
Speaker 2: then the idea that they're not doing everything they can
11:07
Speaker 2: to win. And I don't think you can say that
11:08
Speaker 2: certainly right now for the team. And you know, whether
11:11
Speaker 2: that proves to be a permanent change or just transitory
11:14
Speaker 2: is sort of besides the point.
11:15
Speaker 3: Right now, we can all enjoy it. And you know,
11:18
Speaker 3: now Joe.
11:18
Speaker 2: Burrow has it more on him to say, Okay, you've
11:20
Speaker 2: done everything that you can do.
11:22
Speaker 3: It's not for me to perform too.
11:25
Speaker 1: Trading for Dexter was obviously the biggest move, but they're
11:28
Speaker 1: also very active in free agency. Boy A Mafe, Brian Cook,
11:32
Speaker 1: Jonathan Allen, Kyle Duger and others. What free agent acquisition
11:38
Speaker 1: did you like the most.
11:39
Speaker 3: Well, there weren't any that didn't like.
11:41
Speaker 2: I'll go off the board a little bit and focus
11:44
Speaker 2: on Jonathan Allen a little bit, just because I think
11:46
Speaker 2: he's been sort of pushed aside because of Dexter Lawrence,
11:49
Speaker 2: and you know, that's that's just goes without saying that's
11:52
Speaker 2: what's going to happen. But I don't think people appreciate
11:54
Speaker 2: quite what Allen did last year and how good he's been.
11:57
Speaker 2: And you know, the idea that before the Lauren and
12:00
Speaker 2: Straight kind of presented itself, Allen was considered the big
12:03
Speaker 2: move on the inside, how he was going to change things,
12:05
Speaker 2: that the tackle position was really, you know, an important
12:08
Speaker 2: part of the off season, and he had We had
12:11
Speaker 2: a stat at FTND which is called defeats, which is
12:14
Speaker 2: when you stop a pass or a runner on third down,
12:17
Speaker 2: shy of the sticks or forced a turnover, and he
12:19
Speaker 2: had ten of them, which is a lot for a
12:21
Speaker 2: defensive tackle. Last year, he played eight hundred plus snaps,
12:24
Speaker 2: the most on the Vikings defensive line.
12:26
Speaker 3: Last year. He was a lot in a lot of ways.
12:28
Speaker 2: He was also miscast by what Minnesota was trying to do,
12:31
Speaker 2: but he still was out there and doing a lot
12:33
Speaker 2: of good things for that team, and you know now
12:36
Speaker 2: that he can be in a position where he knocks
12:38
Speaker 2: a couple hundred snaps per game for the season off
12:40
Speaker 2: of that, and it's part of a rotation, and of
12:44
Speaker 2: course you now move last year's starters TJ. Slayton and
12:47
Speaker 2: BJ Hill into a more of a reserve rotational role.
12:49
Speaker 2: That just helps everybody, I think, Alan You know, he
12:53
Speaker 2: also was extremely high on what we call blown blocks forced,
12:57
Speaker 2: which is essentially just a way of beating the man
12:58
Speaker 2: in front of you, and he had he had ten
13:01
Speaker 2: last year, which is a lot for a defensive lineman
13:02
Speaker 2: as well. So you know, just in charting numbers and
13:05
Speaker 2: underlying numbers, he did a lot more than meets the eye.
13:08
Speaker 2: The fact that Bengals got him was kind of a
13:09
Speaker 2: coup Kyle Dugger in a lot of ways. It's the
13:12
Speaker 2: same thing a guy who's sort of under the radar
13:15
Speaker 2: as a signing, everybody points to Brian Cook, and rightfully so,
13:18
Speaker 2: he made a lot of money and he'll help, no
13:20
Speaker 2: question about it. But Douger also had a ton of
13:22
Speaker 2: defeats and he was a really good run stopper and
13:26
Speaker 2: he's just multi positional, he's a chess move kind of player.
13:29
Speaker 2: And of course he had a big pick six against
13:31
Speaker 2: the Bengals too, So you know, the Bengals love having
13:32
Speaker 2: guys like that on their team. So anybody who picks
13:35
Speaker 2: up Joe Burrow or Joe Flaco in that case is
13:38
Speaker 2: most welcome in the following season in Cincinnati. And I
13:41
Speaker 2: think he's going to help in a lot of different ways,
13:42
Speaker 2: and you're going to see him on the field quite
13:44
Speaker 2: a bit. So you know, Boye Mofe and Brian Cook
13:47
Speaker 2: were good signings too, really good in a lot of
13:49
Speaker 2: different ways. But you know, the underlying or less sort
13:53
Speaker 2: of the tension grabbing guys also will help, no question
13:56
Speaker 2: about that.
13:57
Speaker 1: I think ESPN's Bill Barnwell said this week that the
14:00
Speaker 1: biggest upgrade from one year to the next of any
14:05
Speaker 1: position player in the NFL was the Bengals going from
14:08
Speaker 1: Geno Stone to Brian Cook. Do the numbers back that.
14:12
Speaker 2: Up, certainly from a mistackle perspective, no question about that.
14:16
Speaker 2: I think you know, they changed from depending on the charter,
14:19
Speaker 2: but we had six for Cook versus twenty for Stone.
14:23
Speaker 2: I think it was I think there was also a
14:25
Speaker 2: set out there basically that Cook has missed sort of
14:29
Speaker 2: right around twenty in his entire four year career, which
14:31
Speaker 2: is what Stone missed last year. There's no question, it's
14:35
Speaker 2: it's very obvious to the naked eye. Anybody watches those
14:38
Speaker 2: two players, you know there's a certain upgrade there that's
14:43
Speaker 2: no mystery at all. And Cook has a much more
14:46
Speaker 2: you know, he'll do what the Bengals have lacked in
14:49
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, which is sort things out,
14:51
Speaker 2: not just from a you know, counting stat sort of
14:55
Speaker 2: way of thinking of it, but just from communications and
14:59
Speaker 2: getting everybody lined the kind of thing they've been missing
15:01
Speaker 2: really since Jesse Bates left, which is just having that
15:04
Speaker 2: pro back there. Who's going to erase mistakes, who's going
15:07
Speaker 2: to get everybody lined up properly, and if anything breaks down,
15:10
Speaker 2: he's there to be the safety net. And obviously he
15:12
Speaker 2: does all the things that we know about just from
15:14
Speaker 2: accounting stat perspective.
15:15
Speaker 3: So that was a great signing, there's no question about that.
15:18
Speaker 2: And not having Genostone kind of take bad angles and
15:21
Speaker 2: mistackles and having to live through that for another season
15:24
Speaker 2: is a victory in and of itself.
15:25
Speaker 3: No offense, Geno.
15:27
Speaker 1: Boy a Mafe looked like an ascending star a few
15:30
Speaker 1: years ago. He had nine sacks in his second NFL
15:33
Speaker 1: season for Seattle. That went down to six the next year,
15:36
Speaker 1: then down to two last year. Sacks are not the
15:39
Speaker 1: be all end all when it comes to evaluating edge players.
15:43
Speaker 1: Were the other numbers good for boy A Mafe.
15:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, and his pressure rate was still as high as
15:49
Speaker 3: the headman. It's just again, it's sort of a scheme thing,
15:52
Speaker 3: and how he was used in Seattle, they prized, and
15:55
Speaker 3: I think this is what the Bengals wanted to do too.
15:56
Speaker 3: They're not looking necessarily to get Mafe, know.
16:00
Speaker 2: Twelve sacks. I mean, it'd be great if it happens,
16:02
Speaker 2: but you know that they want him to be part
16:05
Speaker 2: of a non stop pass rushing rotation that doesn't give
16:09
Speaker 2: the enemy any breaks.
16:11
Speaker 3: Ever, depending on who's on the field.
16:12
Speaker 2: We've seen in Cincinnati lo these few years that it
16:16
Speaker 2: was basically Trey Hendrickson and if he didn't get pressure,
16:19
Speaker 2: nobody did. And you know, he just can't operate that
16:22
Speaker 2: way in the NFL, certainly not these days. The passing
16:25
Speaker 2: attacks are too efficient. So you know he's just gonna
16:28
Speaker 2: be part of that wave of rushers whether or not
16:31
Speaker 2: he you know, again gets more than that you can
16:34
Speaker 2: expect them to get somewhere, you know, more than last year,
16:36
Speaker 2: and maybe not as many as he had in twenty
16:38
Speaker 2: three or twenty four, but you know that's fine.
16:40
Speaker 3: He's also a really.
16:40
Speaker 2: Good run defender, and he's very effective on the edge.
16:43
Speaker 2: He's got those heavy hands. He plays with a violent
16:46
Speaker 2: intensity that I think the Bengals have been missing a
16:48
Speaker 2: little bit over the past couple of years too. You know,
16:50
Speaker 2: they I always say they kind of bring a knife
16:52
Speaker 2: to a gunfight on defense a little bit. And one
16:55
Speaker 2: thing you can say about Mape is he plays with
16:57
Speaker 2: that that real edge, and you know, guys like that,
17:01
Speaker 2: you don't want them to be playing every down necessarily
17:03
Speaker 2: because it takes a lot out of you to play
17:05
Speaker 2: with that. But if you can be part of a
17:06
Speaker 2: really deep rotation, which certainly on paper the Beals appear
17:10
Speaker 2: to have now up front, you can go all out
17:12
Speaker 2: on every down here in there, and I think you'll
17:13
Speaker 2: see that from Mafe if nothing else, and.
17:16
Speaker 3: You know, the sacks will will be what they are,
17:18
Speaker 3: but you know.
17:19
Speaker 2: He'll bring a two way edge to him that will
17:22
Speaker 2: really be effective on Cincinnati's line, no question about that.
17:26
Speaker 1: Our guest is Robert Weintraub, who writes about the Bengals
17:28
Speaker 1: for Cincinnati Magazine. Let's talk about what they didn't do.
17:32
Speaker 1: Is linebacker and or slot corner a big concern in
17:37
Speaker 1: your opinion?
17:39
Speaker 3: Well, slock corner I don't think is as big a concern,
17:43
Speaker 3: and I don't think the Bengals are quite concern for
17:46
Speaker 3: a few reasons. One is the sort of just we
17:48
Speaker 3: talked about Kyle Duggert before and their third round pick
17:51
Speaker 3: to Carrio Davis, Bigger players that they you know, foresee
17:54
Speaker 3: guarding those those slot positions. And really it's more about
17:58
Speaker 3: the fact that the league train is going to a
18:00
Speaker 3: more tight end play and less away from that traditional
18:03
Speaker 3: three wide out set.
18:04
Speaker 2: Not necessary with the Bengals offense, but everybody else, I
18:08
Speaker 2: think itself Basse Nickel this year, with three corners in
18:11
Speaker 2: the game overall, went under twenty five percent of the
18:15
Speaker 2: snaps for like the first time in a decade. It's
18:17
Speaker 2: been a while since you see it that low. The
18:20
Speaker 2: Bengals themselves in twenty twenty four, they were twenty seven
18:24
Speaker 2: percent of their defensive snaps came against multi tight ends
18:27
Speaker 2: and last year was thirty eight percent, and it's only
18:29
Speaker 2: probably going up. We know the Steelers and the Ravens
18:31
Speaker 2: obviously loved to play that way, and the Browns are
18:33
Speaker 2: trending in that direction too.
18:35
Speaker 3: So that's six of your games right there. You're thinking about.
18:38
Speaker 2: Not necessarily guarding, you know, a jitterbug slot type of
18:41
Speaker 2: the classic Julian Edelman or even Tyler Boy type, but
18:44
Speaker 2: more about guarding the fire moves and the bigger tight
18:48
Speaker 2: ends off the edge who can do a lot of
18:49
Speaker 2: different things, or even just bigger wide receivers in general.
18:52
Speaker 3: So I think in that.
18:54
Speaker 2: Sense, the Bengals probably would upgrade a slot corner if
18:57
Speaker 2: they had the opportunity, And maybe we'll get to that later,
19:00
Speaker 2: and maybe they will. Certainly another body is useful just
19:03
Speaker 2: as a cornerback in general, but I think linebacker has
19:05
Speaker 2: to be more of their immediate concern and more of
19:09
Speaker 2: the fans concern.
19:11
Speaker 3: And it isn't even necessarily an indictment of.
19:14
Speaker 2: Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, who we know, you know,
19:17
Speaker 2: were rookies in and over their heads for a large
19:19
Speaker 2: portion of last year, and they played better as the
19:22
Speaker 2: season went along, and you would expect them to take
19:24
Speaker 2: a little of a.
19:25
Speaker 3: Year two leap.
19:27
Speaker 2: And I should note here that you know it wasn't
19:29
Speaker 2: just the eye test. The Bengals defense did actually improve
19:31
Speaker 2: quite a bit last year in the second half of
19:33
Speaker 2: the season. In fact, they improved by dvoa our classic
19:37
Speaker 2: number here at FTN, which you know as an efficiency
19:40
Speaker 2: stat They improved as a defense in the second half
19:42
Speaker 2: more than any other team in the last ten years
19:44
Speaker 2: did as a defense, which is in some ways damning
19:48
Speaker 2: with faint praise because they were so bad to begin
19:50
Speaker 2: with that they had nowhere to go butt up. But
19:52
Speaker 2: it wasn't just you know, bad quarterbacks and you thinking, oh,
19:57
Speaker 2: they look a little bit better this week. They actually
19:58
Speaker 2: did take quite a bit of a leap over the
20:00
Speaker 2: last eight weeks of the season, and some of that
20:03
Speaker 2: was Carter and Knight just figuring it out, getting their
20:05
Speaker 2: sea legs and doing things that they were good at
20:07
Speaker 2: instead of trying to do everything and figuring.
20:10
Speaker 3: It out on the fly.
20:12
Speaker 2: That being said, you know, one thing they did do
20:14
Speaker 2: also last year was play every game. And you know
20:17
Speaker 2: that in and of itself is a rarity in the NFL.
20:20
Speaker 3: So just from like.
20:21
Speaker 2: A depth and injury prevention you know, or prevented them. Standpoint,
20:26
Speaker 2: you want to have another body in there, whether it's
20:28
Speaker 2: a you know, an old head veteran like a Bobby
20:31
Speaker 2: Wagner type who's going to teach them, you know, the
20:33
Speaker 2: towel of linebacking. Maybe maybe not, but just somebody who
20:37
Speaker 2: is there who knows what he's doing at least a
20:39
Speaker 2: little bit, can provide a little bit of veteran insurance
20:42
Speaker 2: in case that either one or both of those guys
20:45
Speaker 2: go down.
20:45
Speaker 3: God forbid.
20:47
Speaker 2: You know, your only backup right now is Orn Burke's
20:49
Speaker 2: who really you know, is a backup for a reason.
20:52
Speaker 2: He's kind of the worst linebacker and coverage by our
20:55
Speaker 2: numbers last year, you know, not a guy you want
20:58
Speaker 2: to be relying on too much, even.
21:00
Speaker 3: As your third linebacker.
21:01
Speaker 2: So I think in that sense, you really want to
21:03
Speaker 2: get them another body in there, more so than another
21:06
Speaker 2: than you know, strictly a slot corner.
21:08
Speaker 1: At this stage, is Bobby Wagner the best guy still
21:12
Speaker 1: out there? And is there anybody else that the Bengals
21:15
Speaker 1: should be considering well linebacker?
21:18
Speaker 3: Yeah?
21:18
Speaker 2: Probably so, you know he it all depends on money
21:22
Speaker 2: at this point obviously, So you know, if money is
21:24
Speaker 2: no object, I think they probably would have already maybe
21:27
Speaker 2: you know, made an offer to him. Kyle van Noy
21:30
Speaker 2: is another guy who have thought about again, A guy
21:32
Speaker 2: who had a big interception of Joe Burrow as here turned.
21:35
Speaker 3: Into a pick six. I think he handed it off though.
21:38
Speaker 2: But another old head who's been around a lot, who's
21:41
Speaker 2: got a lot of pelts on the wall, could do
21:43
Speaker 2: a lot of different things. He's an interesting case where,
21:46
Speaker 2: you know, I probably wouldn't cost that much either. If
21:50
Speaker 2: you're talking about other positions, there's a Kenny Moore just
21:53
Speaker 2: got released by the Colts I think yesterday was already
21:56
Speaker 2: a couple of days ago, who quit yeah slot corner,
22:01
Speaker 2: but has outside versatility. I mean he's he's been around
22:04
Speaker 2: a while, he's thirty two, he's played something like seven
22:06
Speaker 2: thousand snaps in his career, and you know, something along
22:09
Speaker 2: the lines of forty five to forty eight hundred of
22:10
Speaker 2: those have been in the slot.
22:11
Speaker 3: So but I mean, he.
22:12
Speaker 2: Can do it both ways, and he's a good zone corner.
22:16
Speaker 2: I think the Bengals were top ten and man play
22:18
Speaker 2: last year. I think they want to mix in a
22:19
Speaker 2: little bit more zone this year, depending on how the
22:23
Speaker 2: pass rush works out. And you know certainly more would
22:26
Speaker 2: fit into that. Whether or not, again the money works
22:28
Speaker 2: out is another question, but you know he would be
22:30
Speaker 2: a guy who would give them a little versatility, give
22:33
Speaker 2: them another veteran at the corner position, which you always need,
22:36
Speaker 2: and would certainly fit to what they want to do. Obviously,
22:40
Speaker 2: there's still a needed swing tackle and maybe a diar need.
22:42
Speaker 2: If you are a pessimist like me and don't know
22:45
Speaker 2: that the Orlando Brown and Amarius Mems are going to
22:47
Speaker 2: make it through the whole season unscathed again, you know
22:51
Speaker 2: there's not a there's slim pickings at best to tackle
22:54
Speaker 2: these days.
22:55
Speaker 3: You know.
22:56
Speaker 2: Jonah Williams is the name I've thought a lot about,
22:58
Speaker 2: just because of his Bengals ties he's had. He's got
23:01
Speaker 2: a bad shoulder injury, and you don't really know, or
23:04
Speaker 2: at least I don't know sort of how effective he
23:07
Speaker 2: is or feels or whether he's you know, even available
23:10
Speaker 2: to play next year. We'll see, but a player of
23:13
Speaker 2: that ill just again, somebody else insurance where the coaching
23:17
Speaker 2: staff and the fans can sleep a little bit better
23:19
Speaker 2: at night knowing that if the worst happens, there's somebody
23:23
Speaker 2: who can come in who's not a guy right off
23:24
Speaker 2: the practice squad and won't submarine a game or a
23:28
Speaker 2: season even if you have to put him in. You know,
23:31
Speaker 2: that's a good place to be overall as a team.
23:33
Speaker 2: You know, it shows you that the Bengals don't have
23:35
Speaker 2: a ton of weaknesses. But there's still some guys out
23:37
Speaker 2: there who can help. We'll see if they if they
23:39
Speaker 2: go that route.
23:41
Speaker 1: Up next, we'll discuss trying to extend the contracts of
23:45
Speaker 1: players from the twenty twenty three draft class, namely Miles Murphy,
23:50
Speaker 1: DJ Turner and Chase Brown. But first, here's a quick
23:53
Speaker 1: reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you
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24:17
Speaker 1: The Bengals did not give Miles Murphy his fifth year option.
24:21
Speaker 1: How did you interpret that and who is the priority
24:24
Speaker 1: to sign from that twenty twenty three draft class.
24:28
Speaker 3: Well?
24:28
Speaker 2: I interpreted that as you know, a kind of change
24:31
Speaker 2: on the fly from the original thinking. I think they
24:34
Speaker 2: were definitely going to pick up that option and pay
24:36
Speaker 2: him the whatever his fourteen plus million that he would
24:40
Speaker 2: be getting next year. But you know, once Dextern Lawrence
24:43
Speaker 2: came in and they made that move, that kind of
24:45
Speaker 2: changed a lot of different things. It probably will help
24:48
Speaker 2: Miles Murphy in a couple of different ways. He can now,
24:51
Speaker 2: you know, perhaps put up a statistically significant season that
24:55
Speaker 2: if he doesn't sign an extension, would make him a
24:58
Speaker 2: highly sought after free agent. If he goes that route.
25:02
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the Bengals, in their heart of hearts,
25:04
Speaker 2: would certainly like to extend him and get him at
25:07
Speaker 2: at a decent price. You always want to try that,
25:10
Speaker 2: and I think you know, Murphy, all things being egal
25:12
Speaker 2: would probably want to stay in Cincinnati. But you know,
25:15
Speaker 2: these are the kind of the choices you make when
25:17
Speaker 2: you go as we talked about earlier, when you go
25:19
Speaker 2: quote unquote all in and you make big moves like this,
25:22
Speaker 2: sometimes down the road, the cost is a player like
25:24
Speaker 2: a Miles Murphy. I mean, you know, we'll see if
25:26
Speaker 2: it comes to that. It's certainly in the twenty sixth term,
25:32
Speaker 2: Like we said, gives him you would think high motivation
25:36
Speaker 2: to play well. I don't think they'll probably come to
25:38
Speaker 2: an agreement before the season starts. I could be wrong
25:41
Speaker 2: about that, but I think it's a Murphy's best interest
25:43
Speaker 2: to play the season and try and get that to
25:46
Speaker 2: that next step that he showed at the back half
25:48
Speaker 2: of last year. And if he can do that, the
25:49
Speaker 2: sky's are looming for him. He can make, you know,
25:51
Speaker 2: a ton of dough and you know, the Bengals might
25:54
Speaker 2: be in a position to resign them, but it will
25:56
Speaker 2: cost them more too, So we'll see how that plays out.
25:58
Speaker 3: I think both teams.
25:59
Speaker 2: Will Both sides are in a little bit of a
26:01
Speaker 2: wait and see mode, so it kind of depends in
26:04
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. And it's again a good problem
26:07
Speaker 2: to have, but certainly a knotty situation. And of course
26:09
Speaker 2: they're in that to a degree with some of the
26:11
Speaker 2: other twenty twenty three draftees, which is also a good
26:14
Speaker 2: thing because it showed you that draft was actually really
26:16
Speaker 2: good and obviously DJ Turner at the front of that list.
26:19
Speaker 2: I don't think they want to lose him. He was
26:22
Speaker 2: much more of an a weak corner than I think
26:24
Speaker 2: even Bengal fans realized and certainly the national you know
26:28
Speaker 2: sort of recognition would would have you believe he was
26:31
Speaker 2: fifth among our cornerbacks and dv away against you know,
26:37
Speaker 2: elite company in all pro type season, second league and
26:40
Speaker 2: passes defense. And that's you know, before enemy quarterbacks realized
26:44
Speaker 2: that there were a lot better pickings elsewhere.
26:46
Speaker 3: Let's not throw toward DJ. He's the guy that we
26:48
Speaker 3: have to worry about. Forget it.
26:50
Speaker 2: We can discerre a tight ends like most other teams
26:52
Speaker 2: do against Cincinnati, and you know, I think he's certainly
26:55
Speaker 2: at the top of their list. And again in a
26:58
Speaker 2: situation where you know he's had injuries in the past,
27:02
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily he's not a slam dunk extension right now.
27:06
Speaker 2: Maybe he is, but I think the Bengals would look
27:08
Speaker 2: at it and say, look, maybe prove it a little
27:09
Speaker 2: bit more. But the longer you wait, the more expensive
27:12
Speaker 2: he's going to be, provided he doesn't get injured again.
27:14
Speaker 3: So he's certainly a priority for me.
27:18
Speaker 2: You know, other guys like andre Yoshibas and Jordan Battle
27:21
Speaker 2: are sort of come see coomsa, you know, I think
27:24
Speaker 2: in their heart of hearts. Again, probably guys you'd like
27:27
Speaker 2: to keep around, but not guys you're going to you know,
27:30
Speaker 2: lose sleepover if they wind up walking out the door
27:32
Speaker 2: safeties or a diamond dozen these days, you know, wide
27:35
Speaker 2: receiver three four types like Yoshibats for great stories. He's
27:38
Speaker 2: been also replaceable, and I think the Bengals will probably
27:41
Speaker 2: go that route if need be.
27:43
Speaker 3: You know, we'll see how it plays out. And whom
27:45
Speaker 3: I was Chase Chase Brown?
27:48
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, again, you know, sort of in an
27:51
Speaker 2: interesting situation.
27:52
Speaker 3: Given the position, he's been really effective. They've gotten more
27:55
Speaker 3: than our money sport that of a fifth rounder.
27:58
Speaker 2: And Chase's case, I mean, he's he's really had elite stats,
28:01
Speaker 2: both running and receiving especially.
28:04
Speaker 3: I think he's really undervalued. Now.
28:06
Speaker 2: The question is he's undervalued from a sort of fan perspective.
28:10
Speaker 2: Monetarily that's a whole different thing. And again with the
28:13
Speaker 2: you know, sort of splash outs that the Bengals have made,
28:16
Speaker 2: they might think to themselves, well, good as Chase has
28:19
Speaker 2: been running backs or running backs, we can always get more,
28:23
Speaker 2: and you know, with Joe Burrow passing, we can always
28:26
Speaker 2: find guys who are going to at least, you know,
28:28
Speaker 2: come close to his effect in this I think I
28:30
Speaker 2: speak for most fans when I'd say I'd like to
28:32
Speaker 2: see him stick around, but you know, devoting anything other
28:36
Speaker 2: than sort of a token extension to a running back
28:39
Speaker 2: at this point, given you know where the other needs
28:41
Speaker 2: are and where they're spending so much money as it is,
28:44
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard to keep them. But you know,
28:46
Speaker 2: you'd like to think they'd find a way at least
28:48
Speaker 2: or maybe franchise, I mean, keep them for two years.
28:51
Speaker 1: Let's move to this year's draft class. Their first pick,
28:54
Speaker 1: number forty one overall was cash. Is how all a
28:56
Speaker 1: pass rusher who doesn't fit the Bengals to pical high
29:01
Speaker 1: draft pick proto type? Is that meaningful?
29:05
Speaker 3: Yeah?
29:05
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly think it's meaningful in what we've been
29:08
Speaker 2: talking about already, which is, you know, they're doing things differently,
29:11
Speaker 2: and Joe Burrow himself, you know, said at the end
29:13
Speaker 2: of last year, we have to.
29:14
Speaker 3: Look at the way we have been doing things, and
29:17
Speaker 3: they haven't been working. So let's change some things up.
29:19
Speaker 2: And you know, not drafting the classic two hundred and
29:23
Speaker 2: seventy pound six y four kind of does a lot
29:26
Speaker 2: of things well, but nothing great defensive end that they
29:30
Speaker 2: you know, really have gone and lean toward in the
29:33
Speaker 2: past with some really good players in there. I don't
29:35
Speaker 2: want to detegrate that type because that prototype works in
29:38
Speaker 2: the NFL, but when you have a chance to draft
29:40
Speaker 2: a cash so I think from their perspective, they had
29:43
Speaker 2: him as a real game wrecker who they were shocked
29:45
Speaker 2: to find still available at forty one, and in that sense,
29:49
Speaker 2: you know, you've got to throw your you know, this
29:52
Speaker 2: is our prototype, this is our traits sort of threshold
29:56
Speaker 2: if if you create a guy that highly and I
29:58
Speaker 2: can see why they did, because he's obviously was the
30:01
Speaker 2: SEC defensive player of the Year and racked up nearly
30:04
Speaker 2: a dozen sacks. And even when you watched Shamar Stewart
30:07
Speaker 2: tape from last year before they picked him, and you
30:10
Speaker 2: were like, who's this guy on the end Howell.
30:12
Speaker 3: Who's making all these amazing rushes? And he kept it going.
30:15
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a real, you know, kind of tornado
30:18
Speaker 2: off the edge if he can. Obviously, you never really
30:21
Speaker 2: know if that translates to the NFL. But listen, if
30:24
Speaker 2: the Bengals thought he was, you know, that worthy and
30:27
Speaker 2: was a first round right on him, and you can
30:28
Speaker 2: get him at forty one.
30:30
Speaker 3: You do what you do.
30:30
Speaker 2: And again it's another thing the Bengals always get accused
30:35
Speaker 2: of doing it, in this case rightfully so over the
30:37
Speaker 2: years is sort of picking for need rather than player
30:40
Speaker 2: you know, or who they really love. Is a player
30:43
Speaker 2: regardless of position, and nobody would have blamed them if
30:46
Speaker 2: they had picked another corner or certainly a linebacker at
30:49
Speaker 2: number forty one. And Howell can give them a little
30:52
Speaker 2: bit of that linebacker versatility, but in general, he's a
30:54
Speaker 2: designated pass rusher and he's a guy you look at
30:57
Speaker 2: his defensive end number four, with the other guys they have,
31:00
Speaker 2: is that really the one you want to get with
31:01
Speaker 2: your first pick of the draft? Well, in this case
31:04
Speaker 2: they said yes heartily so. And that's a sign of
31:07
Speaker 2: progress for me, just in terms of their overall kind
31:09
Speaker 2: of just stalking way of thinking that nobody's going to
31:13
Speaker 2: help us more than this guy, and so we should
31:15
Speaker 2: get him regardless of what position he plays.
31:17
Speaker 3: And if we have a still.
31:18
Speaker 2: Of a whole linebacker or backup tackle or whatever, we'll
31:21
Speaker 2: worry about that when the time comes.
31:22
Speaker 3: Let's get this guy in stripes and see what he
31:24
Speaker 3: can do.
31:26
Speaker 1: What pick or picks did you like most and why.
31:30
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly like the whole pick, will leave him
31:33
Speaker 2: aside because he's sort of the obvious one. I'd really
31:35
Speaker 2: like Connor Lou. You know, I'm down here in the South.
31:38
Speaker 2: I watch a lot of SEC football. The thing you
31:40
Speaker 2: love to see is a guy who can really show
31:43
Speaker 2: some dominance in a conference like the SEC as a teenager,
31:47
Speaker 2: which is what he was doing, you know, in his
31:49
Speaker 2: first couple of years at Auburn before he tore that
31:51
Speaker 2: ACL And obviously the injury is what allowed the Bengals
31:54
Speaker 2: to get him in the fourth round.
31:55
Speaker 3: And you know, he profiles to.
31:57
Speaker 2: Me, is not just the guy who's going to back
31:59
Speaker 2: up at Carris in the immediate term, but a guy
32:02
Speaker 2: who really profiles to somebody who can you know, be
32:04
Speaker 2: a long term starter at center. And if you get
32:07
Speaker 2: a guy like that in the fourth round, that's that's
32:09
Speaker 2: a great, great value. You know, you never really know
32:12
Speaker 2: with the injuries how he recovers, but certainly trending towards that.
32:16
Speaker 3: I like that a lot.
32:17
Speaker 2: Jack injuries was an interesting pick. I thought another you
32:20
Speaker 2: know Southeast Conference player who you know kind of got has.
32:24
Speaker 3: To say money whipped into going to Texas.
32:26
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people thought he was going
32:27
Speaker 2: to go to Indiana with his buddy at Cal, Fernando Mendoza,
32:31
Speaker 2: and they were going to kind of transfer as a tandem.
32:33
Speaker 2: Then he wound up in Texas and they were so
32:36
Speaker 2: erratic down there between arch Manning and their offensive line
32:39
Speaker 2: was terrible. It kind of depressed his sort of season
32:42
Speaker 2: and his trade excuse me, draft value. And now you know,
32:46
Speaker 2: we've seen the chip that he has on his shoulder,
32:48
Speaker 2: the off color chip. I won't repeat what he said.
32:50
Speaker 3: I think Bengal fans know by now he's ready to
32:52
Speaker 3: show he's much more than a seventh round pick. And
32:54
Speaker 3: you know, anybody the Bengals can get in there to
32:56
Speaker 3: be a two way tight end, even if he he's
33:00
Speaker 3: not necessarily a feature of their offense, but just somebody
33:03
Speaker 3: who's you know, when they put in Mike Aseki, they're
33:07
Speaker 3: throwing the ball. You know, when Drew Sample's in there,
33:09
Speaker 3: they're running the ball. They're kind of obvious based on
33:11
Speaker 3: their personnel groupings, just by dint of what the players
33:14
Speaker 3: can and can't do.
33:16
Speaker 2: I mean that's not necessarily not because those guys are
33:18
Speaker 2: good at what they do, but if you can obviously
33:20
Speaker 2: provide that kind of you know, shade and two way
33:24
Speaker 2: play that I think injuries can get to there, you know,
33:27
Speaker 2: with a couple of years of seasoning. Certainly, then again,
33:29
Speaker 2: that's great value kind of late in the draft, you know,
33:33
Speaker 2: to Carrio Davis in the third round, maybe I understand
33:36
Speaker 2: why they picked them, and they needed a corner and
33:38
Speaker 2: he certainly has the speed and the length and you
33:40
Speaker 2: can definitely see it working. To me that he's a
33:44
Speaker 2: little bit of a risky pick in that, you know,
33:47
Speaker 2: the sort of classic fluidity of a cornerback just based
33:51
Speaker 2: on the size almost more than anything else, is not there.
33:54
Speaker 2: You know, he doesn't kind of settle and change the
33:56
Speaker 2: way the classic corners do.
33:58
Speaker 3: He won't necessarily be.
33:59
Speaker 2: Asked to do that, at least right away. I think
34:02
Speaker 2: in their heart of hearts of the Bengals want him
34:04
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of take over and be a
34:06
Speaker 2: starting boundary corner. And it remains to be seen whether
34:09
Speaker 2: or not he can stand up to that. You know,
34:12
Speaker 2: you got him in the third round, so it's not
34:13
Speaker 2: necessarily a devastating thing if he can't do it. But
34:18
Speaker 2: you know, if they have these grand plans for him
34:19
Speaker 2: and it doesn't work out, he'd be a question mark
34:21
Speaker 2: to me, So that's a bit of a waste to go, Robert.
34:24
Speaker 1: I have been binging on power rankings from various outlets.
34:29
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated has Cincinnati as the ninth best team in
34:32
Speaker 1: the NFL. Nfl dot Com has the Bengals is the
34:35
Speaker 1: twenty first best team in the NFL, So they're all
34:38
Speaker 1: over the board. Is this team a legit Super Bowl contender?
34:44
Speaker 3: Yeah?
34:44
Speaker 2: I think I saw somebody have twenty fourth, which was
34:46
Speaker 2: just a slap in the face because a duel in
34:49
Speaker 2: the old and timy days, I mean, come on, yeah,
34:53
Speaker 2: to me, they are.
34:53
Speaker 3: Why not?
34:54
Speaker 2: I mean, you have Joe Burrow, assuming he stays on
34:57
Speaker 2: the field, That right away, in and of itself, makes you,
34:59
Speaker 2: if not a playoff contender, then a super Bowl contender.
35:02
Speaker 2: We've seen it before, and I think you can even
35:04
Speaker 2: go back to twenty twenty one. A little bit reminds
35:07
Speaker 2: me of that when Burrow was hurt obviously in his
35:09
Speaker 2: rookie year, and you know, came into twenty twenty one
35:12
Speaker 2: not necessarily an unknown quantity, but I felt like he
35:15
Speaker 2: was a bit forgotten, a bit overlooked by the national media.
35:17
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, out of sight, out of mind
35:19
Speaker 2: a little bit. Who are the Bengals? What have they
35:21
Speaker 2: ever done? And of course we know what happened. He
35:23
Speaker 2: led them to the Super Bowl, and I think, you
35:25
Speaker 2: know it's it's not the same kind of team, but
35:28
Speaker 2: it's a similar kind of way of thinking, and that
35:30
Speaker 2: the Bengals kind of in general fall under.
35:33
Speaker 3: The national media radar just because of who they are.
35:36
Speaker 2: Burrow lifts them up into that way of, oh, you
35:38
Speaker 2: got to pay attention because of Joe Burrow, and then
35:40
Speaker 2: if he's injured most of the season and they underperform,
35:42
Speaker 2: and it's just so easy to forget about them all
35:44
Speaker 2: over again. And you would think even the Dexter Orange
35:47
Speaker 2: trade would pull people out of that mindset, but apparently not.
35:50
Speaker 2: You know, the Bengals have Harzis to believe and take
35:53
Speaker 2: it for what it's worth in the off season. But
35:54
Speaker 2: they have the easiest schedule coming up projected by d Boa,
35:59
Speaker 2: which is our baseline stead here at FTN and you
36:02
Speaker 2: know that works out sometimes sometimes it doesn't. But they
36:05
Speaker 2: have the AFC and NFC South divisions as their their
36:08
Speaker 2: rotation this year, so you know, you have to like
36:11
Speaker 2: certain aspects about that. Just on space obviously, we know
36:14
Speaker 2: the other three teams in the in the division all
36:17
Speaker 2: changed their coaches nothing else.
36:19
Speaker 3: At a continuity.
36:20
Speaker 2: Standpoint, you would think advantage Bengals in that sense. They
36:25
Speaker 2: have the explosive offense. We know that, you know in
36:28
Speaker 2: the you know, passing league, in an offense build league,
36:31
Speaker 2: that's first and foremost. We worry so much about the defense,
36:34
Speaker 2: and we should do in the playoffs. That'll be very
36:36
Speaker 2: important should they make it. But first and foremost, you
36:38
Speaker 2: got to score, and the Bengals can always do that
36:41
Speaker 2: with Burrow on the field, and even as we said
36:44
Speaker 2: last year when he wasn't on the field and they
36:45
Speaker 2: kept Joe Flacou an underrated move which I liked a
36:47
Speaker 2: lot too. So you know, you never want to say, yeah,
36:51
Speaker 2: this is a super Bowl team, But I don't understand
36:54
Speaker 2: why they're not getting at least people thinking that they're
36:57
Speaker 2: definitely a playoff contender. We have them as the slight
37:00
Speaker 2: favorite over Baltimore in the AFC North, which would make
37:03
Speaker 2: them by Dent Division winner and a playoff team with
37:05
Speaker 2: some home games. And from there once you have Burrow
37:08
Speaker 2: and Chase and now a Dexter Lawrence on the other side.
37:11
Speaker 2: Real you know, superstar players, sky's the limit. They can
37:14
Speaker 2: definitely go as far as those guys can take them.
37:17
Speaker 1: When a team enters the season with the easiest schedule
37:21
Speaker 1: on paper, does it generally turn out to at least
37:25
Speaker 1: be easy or are there instances where it totally flips
37:29
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day it's one of
37:30
Speaker 1: the tougher schedules.
37:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely instances where it flips. I mean, even
37:34
Speaker 2: with the Bengals a couple of years ago. You know,
37:37
Speaker 2: they didn't have the easiest schedule, but they were in
37:38
Speaker 2: the bottom ten of the league I think going in
37:41
Speaker 2: on paper, and then they wound up playing one of
37:44
Speaker 2: the ten hardest that we've ever measured. And that was
37:46
Speaker 2: the year that that Jake Browning replaced Joe Burrow and
37:48
Speaker 2: did pretty well, and they were right on the you know,
37:50
Speaker 2: the dnt of the edge of the playoffs that year,
37:52
Speaker 2: and you know, part of the reason they didn't make
37:54
Speaker 2: it was because their schedule wound up being much harder.
37:57
Speaker 3: Than anyone expected.
37:59
Speaker 2: You know, that's why they play the games in your
38:00
Speaker 2: television and not on paper. But you know, generally speaking,
38:06
Speaker 2: the teams are who they are. I mean, you know,
38:07
Speaker 2: you look at the AFC South and the NFC South,
38:11
Speaker 2: and maybe one or two teams in that A team
38:14
Speaker 2: Maras pops up and is really good, and the Texans
38:17
Speaker 2: obviously are good, certainly on the defensive side of the ball.
38:19
Speaker 2: It's not like they won't provide challenges. But it's not
38:22
Speaker 2: quite the same as knowing you're going in and you're
38:24
Speaker 2: gonna have to face you know, said the Eagles before
38:27
Speaker 2: the year started, or the NFC West this year, or
38:29
Speaker 2: something like that, where you know you have three really
38:32
Speaker 2: high quality teams, including the Super Bowl champ you have
38:35
Speaker 2: to like their chances a little bit just based on that.
38:37
Speaker 2: And you know, again, obviously everything changes injuries. Who knows
38:41
Speaker 2: who pops up and when you play them is almost
38:43
Speaker 2: as important as who you play.
38:46
Speaker 3: But I guess I'd.
38:47
Speaker 2: Rather go in with the easiest schedule on paper than
38:51
Speaker 2: the hardest schedule on paper, that's for sure.
38:54
Speaker 1: Robert Winchop has been our guest. As I've mentioned you
38:56
Speaker 1: read about the Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine. You'll be writing
38:59
Speaker 1: the Bengals chap or in the FTN Football Almanac again
39:02
Speaker 1: this year. The only preseason guide to the NFL that
39:05
Speaker 1: anybody needs to buy but let's talk about some of
39:08
Speaker 1: the other things that you have going on, including one
39:11
Speaker 1: of my favorite things that arrives in my inbox on
39:13
Speaker 1: a regular basis, the NYC one thousand. For those who
39:18
Speaker 1: have not listened to us discussed this before, explain this
39:22
Speaker 1: incredible project you have undertaken. The NYC one thousand.
39:27
Speaker 2: Yes, incredible is one word for it. Insane, which starts
39:30
Speaker 2: with the same letter, might be another one. But yes,
39:32
Speaker 2: that's my substack where I count down the top one thousand, Yes,
39:36
Speaker 2: not five hundred, not seven to fifty, but one thousand
39:39
Speaker 2: sporting events in New York City history. I'm a New
39:42
Speaker 2: Yorker city, not state like you, and you know, it's
39:46
Speaker 2: certainly been my concentration over all my lifetime has been
39:50
Speaker 2: New York sports, Bengals notwithstanding. And you know, I it's
39:55
Speaker 2: kind of a combination both of sports history and social
39:58
Speaker 2: history and his story of New York City, which kind
40:01
Speaker 2: of encompasses American history and world history in a lot
40:04
Speaker 2: of different ways. And it's just it's a way to
40:06
Speaker 2: really sort out, you know, sort of all these amazing
40:11
Speaker 2: the best tonnage of events that have taken place in
40:13
Speaker 2: Gotham over these years from Yankee Baseball to Great Fights,
40:17
Speaker 2: to US Open Tennis, to golf and horse racing, and
40:20
Speaker 2: then Knicks basketball and everything else. How do you quantify
40:23
Speaker 2: by that? And I found a way where I have
40:25
Speaker 2: six different categories. I score them on a one to
40:27
Speaker 2: ten scale. I had them up and you know, when
40:29
Speaker 2: I first started thinking about doing this, I figured I'd
40:32
Speaker 2: do maybe one hundred, but there were so many, and
40:34
Speaker 2: I was so into it that I had just had
40:36
Speaker 2: to go for a thousand, added zero to it. And
40:38
Speaker 2: I greatly appreciate both your readership and your promotion of
40:41
Speaker 2: it over these years. And you know, it's in the
40:44
Speaker 2: six hundred and forty range at the moment. Still some
40:47
Speaker 2: catching up that people can do. There's a lot on
40:50
Speaker 2: there already, but we have a long way to go.
40:52
Speaker 2: So if you just google, you know NYC one thousand
40:56
Speaker 2: or Substa wine Trap are at dot substack dot com.
41:00
Speaker 2: It's always hard to say, but easy enough to find.
41:03
Speaker 2: It's free. You know, you can certainly leave a tip
41:07
Speaker 2: if you like, but it's not going to cross you
41:09
Speaker 2: an armor and a leg and these in these days
41:12
Speaker 2: for our economy, so it's something that gives you some
41:15
Speaker 2: pleasure and the price is right, so hopefully people will
41:17
Speaker 2: check it out.
41:18
Speaker 1: Bob Costas used to host a late night talk show
41:21
Speaker 1: Later with Bob Costas, and I used to say, I
41:23
Speaker 1: used to tape it and watch it every day. The
41:25
Speaker 1: episodes that I did not expect to be interested in
41:29
Speaker 1: turned out to be the best ones. And it's similar
41:32
Speaker 1: with the NYC one thousand. I get my two entries
41:36
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, and frequently the one where I'm like,
41:39
Speaker 1: I don't really care about that tennis match turns out
41:42
Speaker 1: to just be great writing and really interesting, So kudos
41:46
Speaker 1: and keeping me entertained. I also want to mention the
41:49
Speaker 1: Max Mercy reader. Explain to people who Max Mercy is
41:55
Speaker 1: in case the name kind of faintly rings a bell
41:58
Speaker 1: but they don't know why.
42:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he thought the NYC one thousand was crazy. Uh,
42:03
Speaker 2: that's generally the reaction I got.
42:05
Speaker 3: Yeah.
42:05
Speaker 2: Max Mercy was the sports writer played by Robert Duvall
42:08
Speaker 2: in the classic film The Natural starring Robert Redford, of
42:11
Speaker 2: course as Roy Hobbs. I think we all remember that one,
42:13
Speaker 2: a classic movie, and Max Mercy was, you know this
42:17
Speaker 2: the classic hard bitten cynical, you know, fedora wearing sports
42:22
Speaker 2: writer at the time, and somewhere in my insanity occurred
42:25
Speaker 2: to me, what if he was the chronicler, the sports
42:28
Speaker 2: writer tesk with covering all of sports movie filmed them,
42:32
Speaker 2: not just The Natural and Roy Hobbs, but pretty much
42:35
Speaker 2: everybody else a sport, any sports movie you can think of,
42:37
Speaker 2: ones that are fictional, not you know, based on a
42:40
Speaker 2: true story. So you have Max, you know, covering various
42:44
Speaker 2: events throughout history, certainly Rocky Balboa prize fights and various
42:48
Speaker 2: other you know, Norman Dale, the coach Hickory High. He
42:52
Speaker 2: he was covering him long before he went to Indiana,
42:54
Speaker 2: back when he was suspended by the College Basketball Association
42:58
Speaker 2: for punching a player, all kind and things like that.
43:00
Speaker 2: And you know, part of it for me was kind
43:04
Speaker 2: of a meta commentary, if you will, on the media
43:07
Speaker 2: in which case have him doing not just covering games
43:10
Speaker 2: and figures, but also you know, kind of changing with
43:13
Speaker 2: the time, so doing feature stories and doing you know,
43:17
Speaker 2: Twitter style unrolls, and doing first person participatory journalism and
43:23
Speaker 2: all the way down to having Ai cover some of
43:25
Speaker 2: his stuff.
43:25
Speaker 3: So it's it's the full.
43:28
Speaker 2: Panoply of sports media seeing through the lens of a
43:32
Speaker 2: of a fictional but very important character in movie history.
43:35
Speaker 2: And you know, just a lark something for an amused
43:39
Speaker 2: boosh if you will. But again, you can get it,
43:42
Speaker 2: you know, for the price of a cup of coffee
43:43
Speaker 2: on Amazon. Just again, google the Max Mercy Reader and
43:46
Speaker 2: it's there, and you download it and read it on
43:48
Speaker 2: your phone, you know.
43:50
Speaker 3: In between other things that are more important in life.
43:52
Speaker 2: It's just something to take past the time and take
43:55
Speaker 2: your mind off reality for a few minutes.
43:58
Speaker 1: I have taken a lot of your time today. I
44:00
Speaker 1: greatly appreciate it. I look forward to reading what you
44:03
Speaker 1: write in the FTN Football Almanac and Cincinnati Magazine and
44:07
Speaker 1: look forward to catching up again sometime soon. Thanks Robert, That's.
44:10
Speaker 3: Always a great pleasure for me. And thanks so much, Dan.
44:13
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of the
44:15
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Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde. Thanks for
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Speaker 1: listening to the Bengals Booth podcast