Latest / Archons Corner / Are We Not the Keyforge Players Ghost Galaxy is Looking For

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Are We Not the Keyforge Players Ghost Galaxy is Looking For · Archons Corner

• 0:00
  Think I'm getting a listening. Yeah, we're all here. Okay, so
• 0:22
  I'm pressing the button. So what is going on? Everybody? Fourteenth times
• 0:27
  a charm? I heard, I hit the button. Okay, things are
• 0:32
  moving now. It wasn't moving before. I don't know if I got it.
• 0:34
  You'll hear in the Patreon episode and then everybody's here. But it's time
• 0:40
  to talk about fair sex with Sheep. And I'm oh, sorry, here's
• 0:44
  my nickel or what is it? A quarter? I don't know what I'm
• 0:48
  yelling about, but we but you know, let's just now that I'm all
• 0:52
  frezzing a corner word? No I didn't, okay, but what about like
• 1:00
  ursa pornication? Does that like skirt around the jar rules? So what are
• 1:06
  we here talking about tonight? Well, first of all, let's talk about
• 1:08
  who we have with us scene. We have the l from the South,
• 1:12
  so we have the Choke show dress Corps. Hey, guys, how's it
• 1:21
  going. We have ewakwakshy Hello friends, and we have hello keyboards community we're
• 1:30
  doing them all. We have our resident PhD in grump doctor Sheep. Still
• 1:38
  I haven't learned anything. Still have not learned anything, But it is time
• 1:42
  to go on ope watch once again. All of our gold materials now gone.
• 1:48
  I apologize that I'm not singing again. You did miss Sheep singing?
• 1:53
  Man, there was an ounce of joy there? What was it on the
• 1:59
  eighth? Oh? No? So today, if you're not following us on
• 2:00
  Twitter, make sure you're following us on Twitter at our kids quarter. Today
• 2:05
  is day thirty two, nothing of the forty two days we have given gg
• 2:10
  to review. So here's here's what I'm fearful of because we don't quite getting
• 2:16
  to this. We got into their their their crucible calendar, which is actually
• 2:22
  a seventy four system, but too late. That joke's dead then what we're
• 2:28
  talking about? Yeah kill, Okay, I'm sorry. I'm a terrible person.
• 2:34
  So anyways, it's day four, it's day thirty two to forty two,
• 2:37
  so in ten days we should get OP news. Right, Christmas Eve,
• 2:40
  it is. It is Christmas Eve. That is right. That's exactly
• 2:44
  where I was going dressed you and I think, like man, I did
• 2:47
  not recognize that until y'all said it, it would be it would literally be
• 2:52
  Christmas teah. Yeah, we're gonna get both Jesus and OP News. That's
• 3:00
  sounds about right. Well, Number one, it's Kisus. Oh, Kisus,
• 3:02
  sorry, Kisus. Oh. I suppose we do get Kisus on the
• 3:08
  twenty fifth right, okay, yep, and then Kisus on the twenty sixth.
• 3:15
  M that's yep. Yeah, And that joke just didn't land all right,
• 3:23
  but that would be that would actually legitimately land us right on Christmas Eve?
• 3:28
  So over under his boys, are we getting OP news on Christmas Eve?
• 3:35
  Over over means beyond? Is that what you're saying? Yeah? Yeah,
• 3:42
  sheep? Would that be the ultimate Christmas present for you? If we
• 3:45
  got OP news on Christmas Eve? Uh, it would have to be pretty
• 3:52
  monumental news to make it worth that day. Hey, guys, we don't
• 4:00
  have any information yet, but the Key Forge Vault tour is we'll be making
• 4:03
  a return in twenty twenty four. That sounds about right. Would that make
• 4:12
  you happy? At least? No, we already knew that, okay,
• 4:16
  So not only I have dates and times, all of it's fake now that
• 4:21
  would you know if they came out with an article that was like, here's
• 4:27
  you know, here's your twenty twenty four Vault tour schedule. Here's here's a
• 4:31
  few US faults. Here's a f you're a national vaults. Here's the dates,
• 4:34
  here's the locations that would be that'd be pretty great. Would that make
• 4:41
  you happy? I would consider not talking to you. We're talking to sheep
• 4:46
  right now. Okay, you're always happy, You're always happy? But is
• 4:49
  he pretty much? We care about you? DRez, Please know we do
• 4:55
  care about you, but we're trying to make sheep happy right now. I
• 4:58
  think I would be satisfied. You'd be satisfyble wow? So what what would
• 5:02
  make you happy? Though? Are you recording this this time? Or I
• 5:06
  mean this is the fourteenth time the one it's time to okay number two?
• 5:14
  It only took us four years to learn how to back up record, and
• 5:16
  then we don't back up record. But we haven't lost the algorithm yet at
• 5:23
  least couldn't get through the whole thing. We never Asking what happy is a
• 5:27
  much more complicated question than we can cover in this cast. I mean,
• 5:30
  if you wanted a short episode, this is not the way to do it,
• 5:33
  all right, So the only thing that would actually probably make me happy
• 5:39
  is if they dropped a store level op program that looked good and I don't
• 5:46
  have the answer what that is, because if I did, I would have
• 5:48
  already fed it to them. You have been blown up their email. Well,
• 5:54
  and then they would have done what they traditionally knew, which is,
• 5:56
  go now we'll do some more Alliance. So as a whole, and everybody
• 6:06
  in the chat put it up and put it up in the show chat going
• 6:12
  on? Right, there was Alliance just a giant bust this year, And
• 6:16
  is there room for it to make a comeback or is it is maybe something
• 6:20
  we should just leave in the dust. Come back would infer that it failed,
• 6:26
  which is a thing. It didn't fail. It did not fail.
• 6:31
  Well, it depends on your measure, I think, right, I would
• 6:34
  say Alliance was kind of a big failure. I would say it did not
• 6:43
  provide the It did not reach the goals as stated right, it was still
• 6:50
  a format enjoyed by a certain group of people that did only come to play
• 6:58
  that format. Now, that could be true of any of the awful formats,
• 7:02
  like they could have run Adaptive as the second format, and that could
• 7:06
  have also had four players showing up to play it, and would have been
• 7:11
  exactly what I would have said, which is like, yeah, some people
• 7:14
  will play this but nobody wants it, which is a lie. There are
• 7:17
  a few people who want it, sure, I like, no, nobody
• 7:21
  wants it, at least I don't know. At least the Lions is kind
• 7:27
  of like playing key Forge. We got some people in the chat here who
• 7:30
  are fans, right, I think that that's why the the measure is important,
• 7:38
  right if it's what CTP came on various casts, not ours, but
• 7:43
  various casts and said, hey, this is why we want to do Alliance.
• 7:47
  We think it's going to bring back laps players that definitely did not do
• 7:54
  that. Did it grow the game? I don't think so. There.
• 8:00
  I mean it depends a game, though, because I think the secondary market
• 8:05
  did get a big bump, and yeah, sales just for decks that normally
• 8:09
  wouldn't have sold extend maybe to find big because I don't think it got a
• 8:16
  big Well there was zero and then there was some. Okay, I don't
• 8:22
  think it actually made so do you guys know that? I, you know,
• 8:26
  most often buy cheap decks with something silly in it that I want to
• 8:31
  mess around with. It actually made that much harder to do because yeah,
• 8:37
  because like if it's got some cool thing in one house that I want to
• 8:41
  mess with. Now it's like, oh no, no, no, I'm
• 8:43
  not going to sell that for twenty bucks because I'm going to try to get
• 8:46
  a hundred out of it for somebody in an Alliance And I'm like, well,
• 8:48
  it's not worth one hundred bucks to screw around to bring it to my
• 8:52
  local to try to do the one thing right, whereas I would have paid
• 8:56
  twenty bucks to do it. Kirkman says Alliance was a surprising was surprisingly a
• 9:03
  plus. Eric Waters says didn't fail, but wasn't as big as I bet
• 9:09
  they thought it'd be. I think, like I do agree, it is
• 9:15
  hitting like a different demographic and like it's not bringing back, you know,
• 9:20
  old lapsed players, but it is bringing in new players that are have an
• 9:24
  affinity towards the more constructive format. What new players I mean, I know
• 9:33
  it's a hard number to quantify. I couldn't tell you. Yeah, I
• 9:39
  don't. I don't think like that. That's just all going to be personal
• 9:43
  experience of like who you're talking to in the community that maybe like I'm biased,
• 9:46
  right because I'm not an Alliance player, but I my sales pitch for
• 9:50
  the game at for folks at my store, like you should play with us,
• 9:56
  like did not change, Like I still stated, two folks, you
• 10:01
  cannot change your deck, Like that was still a thing I said to people,
• 10:05
  because like I didn't want to be like, well, mostly that's true,
• 10:09
  but there's other formats where that's not true, and you can only change
• 10:11
  certain parts of the deck these pods, but you don't know what the pods
• 10:16
  are, so like I just didn't get into any of that. I think
• 10:20
  the important statement is going from Joe and a chat, Alliance created a lot
• 10:24
  of key Forge thought and discussion, which is very good for the game.
• 10:26
  I will definitely give it that. I think that is an extremely important part
• 10:31
  that we cannot undervalue. Yep, it definitely makes better conversation than most of
• 10:37
  the other alternative formats. I see Kirkman mentioning cheap AOA bringing in folks or
• 10:50
  at least on Reddit, like I've seen that too. I don't know if
• 10:52
  that's for Alliance though, Like I think A would be cheap one way or
• 10:56
  another. Right AOA it was. I don't want to say it was,
• 11:03
  because it really wasn't. I mean, it ended up winning, right,
• 11:07
  but like it finally gave away a chance to shine well, but is that
• 11:13
  only because it's the set they didn't restricted death is the only thing you're not
• 11:24
  The combinations that do that kind of power level just got restricted out of World's
• 11:30
  Glide and Coda immediately. Because my biggest question me and Sheep talked about it,
• 11:37
  what if we had a world hypothetically, if we had a world where
• 11:46
  there was no restricted list And I'm actually surprised Season one, Yeah called Arkan
• 11:54
  okay, but it's not like it would be very different, like I'm now
• 12:01
  building an ARCon as opposed to like I open an arkon, Like, what
• 12:07
  what are your guys' thoughts on an alliance where there is no no restricted list
• 12:11
  and we just remember people see what like you're going to see like a quad
• 12:16
  or like five Control of the Week three Scrambler Storm just like stupid call the
• 12:22
  arc on Alliance where you just can't play. Yeah, but that gets beat
• 12:26
  by a stupid it can't get beat by all kinds of things. Still like
• 12:30
  that that. It's the the ot K stuff closer to what Z won with,
• 12:37
  but even more broken, because you can have a really really broken speed
• 12:41
  logos to make it happen a turn even faster than it was true. Like,
• 12:50
  I think it's going to be the kind of stuff where it's just like
• 12:52
  in three to four turns, I in seventy five percent of the games I've
• 12:56
  set up, my I win the game. Sit you you're either playing against
• 13:01
  somebody who's also doing that or they're playing something that disrupts that, and then
• 13:07
  it I don't know, I think it just gets more into the awfulness that
• 13:11
  is is magic, where it's you're playing the you're playing the fast act,
• 13:18
  you're playing the deck that counters the fast ac and then there's some sort of
• 13:20
  interesting things when those decks hit each other, sort of interesting things because I
• 13:31
  I'm under kind of like this idea of like a double I don't want to
• 13:35
  say double standard, but like this double basis where it's either either it'll end
• 13:39
  up balancing it all, so it balances itself out because you got degenerously playing
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  degenerouscy so eventually one degenerate thing just out degenerates the other thing. Yeah,
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  but that never happened. Like nobody really delivered a consistent solution for dealing with
• 13:56
  MG, and that's been winning all season. Like Alliance, there are not
• 14:01
  enough major events and stuff going on for a real huge alliance method to develop,
• 14:09
  responses to to be developed, and responses to responses because there's just not
• 14:15
  enough events and enough players doing it. So it's slow. It's very slow.
• 14:18
  It's hard. It's really hard to say how it pans out because it's
• 14:24
  kind of a slow development thing with the size and the quantity of play going
• 14:28
  on. If we didn't have a banon restricted list, do more people join
• 14:33
  or is it still the same kind of small numbers. I think it comes
• 14:37
  back to why you don't play arc on because it sort of becomes I don't
• 14:41
  know if it actually becomes worse, but I think it feels like it's worse,
• 14:45
  like then there's going to be even less. It's truly broken, Like
• 14:48
  I feel like there's this idea that it would just be absolutely busted. But
• 14:52
  it's like, yeah, but find something like that. Well, we'll jot
• 14:56
  in the chat, right he played U Library Access plus United Action or Library
• 15:03
  Card plus United Action. Right then it's just you're just playing everything. But
• 15:07
  but it isn't true because you have to set that up. You have to
• 15:11
  have a card from every house and play before that works. That doesn't just
• 15:16
  Hey, it's not just like two cards in my hand. I've just won
• 15:18
  the game. That doesn't actually work that way. There's some amount of counter
• 15:22
  it's super strong. But this is the kind of stuff where I agree it's
• 15:26
  gonna be like you're either playing that kind of deck where it's like on turn
• 15:28
  three I get infinite and it's pretty consistent a doing it because I put together
• 15:35
  a deck that lays artifacts of all the houses. Correct, but I can
• 15:41
  actually into a best of three now because the games long. Well, but
• 15:50
  if it's degenerate, doesn't it move faster? Because there's also degenerate lockdown is
• 15:58
  a very real thing where it's just like you the I was KIV was kind
• 16:03
  of playing that in ARCon where it's like once he's set up, every turn,
• 16:07
  I get to shatterstorm you and make enough for my key, so it
• 16:12
  and has control stuff and it's just like you're never going to do anything and
• 16:15
  I'm slowly going to grind my way to victory. Like those are real decks.
• 16:19
  That stuff does exist. You will see it and games can dike forever.
• 16:23
  Yeah, I can talk a little bit about the forest. Yeah,
• 16:26
  I can talk a little bit about library access United Action because I have I
• 16:32
  have a legacy that came out in DT and before that restricted list was up,
• 16:36
  I mean, when everyone was trying Wild West, that's immediately what I
• 16:40
  went to. And it was I can say fun for myself for a little
• 16:44
  bit, but it wasn't fun to be able to play against. And you
• 16:47
  can see that. And it quickly went away because when I would have my
• 16:52
  LA like, the only thing that would restrict it is if my LA was
• 16:56
  buried too deep or a UA like. I'm looking to be able to have
• 17:00
  both of them, and that would be how I'd pushed to cycle a little
• 17:03
  bit faster. But the end result is I can go ahead and once I
• 17:07
  have it set up, I'm infinite. You're just watching me play cards.
• 17:11
  And when I say play cards, Wookie, I'm talking when it goes off,
• 17:17
  there's I'm going literally through every single part. You're just sitting staring at
• 17:22
  it like there's nothing that you can do. It's not I played I played
• 17:25
  you against it. And that's what I just took the conceited button. We
• 17:27
  called it a day and we moved. We moved a game too, but
• 17:30
  not everyone is willing to do that, and that's where it causes an issue,
• 17:34
  I think. But then what would watch you play that whole turn hope
• 17:38
  would you make a mistake? So then I think the appeal to Alliance them
• 17:42
  though, Well, I think Alliance is a format that lets you play the
• 17:49
  good stuff from your bad backs in theory, right, because that that is
• 17:56
  a very like we We've talked about it many times. There there's very few
• 18:00
  reasons or ways to play most of what you own, especially with the way
• 18:07
  we enjoy the game, which is kind of at the higher power level in
• 18:11
  general, and Alliance kind of lets you do that because it lets you go
• 18:15
  like, hey, I got this. This could have been really cool if
• 18:18
  it didn't come with Brobner World's Glade or Brobnar just about any set other than
• 18:23
  the New Ones, right, It lets you slap that junk together. I
• 18:30
  mean there was nothing stopping you from doing that to some extent before, except
• 18:34
  there was no official tournament. And if there's no official support for it,
• 18:37
  that is not really a real thing, and then it becomes some weird thing
• 18:41
  people are doing on the side. So without Gig's nudge supporting of it,
• 18:51
  it doesn't get supported. Although I think it's been very clearly shown in this
• 18:56
  season, is that still most of what you own is pointless, so alliance
• 19:03
  doesn't it? It does it fire decks have some value than they did before,
• 19:11
  so it did add some decks back to the playpool that otherwise would have
• 19:15
  just been you know, novelties in your deck collection and you're like, look
• 19:19
  at how close I was too awesomeness. Ah, it does let those come
• 19:23
  out, but it doesn't really address the amount of junk we still own.
• 19:27
  I think that's the really important aspect that I've seen is top level alliance is
• 19:33
  very very good, but you're looking at a select grouping of decks, and
• 19:38
  unfortunately it still leaves a mass, large quantity of our collection that is still
• 19:45
  unusable. So the idea was great, Hey, I can use this.
• 19:48
  I think it's fun more in a local play group setting. But if I'm
• 19:52
  looking at top level competitive alliance, you're you're scouting for those decks, but
• 19:57
  it doesn't make it more playable cross all of our decks. I wish there
• 20:02
  was something that was there. Of the seven hundred and fifty decks I have,
• 20:04
  which have all been all except by like top ten, or the few
• 20:08
  decks I actually enjoy, have all been listed for sale at one point,
• 20:12
  I think I only ever moved to that were for Alliance, and they certainly
• 20:18
  didn't show on alliances that were played anywhere that I saw, So yeah,
• 20:22
  it's just yeah, the Alliance pod things there are. I think that's the
• 20:27
  real I think that's the real trick though, for gg what can you do
• 20:30
  with that ninety decks that we're purchasing? I think the like, well,
• 20:36
  I mean have the ultimate format on what to do with decks. You play
• 20:40
  them, you get your fun out of them, and then you don't own
• 20:41
  them anymore. So you don't go back like, well, I still own
• 20:44
  it and I don't have something to do with it. No, you're done
• 20:45
  with it. You have it has reached its peak fun. Let it rest
• 20:52
  well and you are talking. Sealed is a phenomenal way to play a deck
• 20:57
  and you get your use out of it. So shredders a second option to
• 21:02
  reuse that deck. I get it. And honestly, for fifteen bucks,
• 21:07
  it's what a cost of movie is. It's not a bad, bad cost.
• 21:11
  No, that's that's our opinion. Like, there are certainly people who
• 21:15
  you know, like, there are people who are every deck is sacred.
• 21:19
  Yeah, they won't go ahead and tread them. Jesus has blessed this deck
• 21:25
  himself. I'm sort of that way. Yeah, I mean, I'm to
• 21:30
  the point now I haven't done it yet, but I'm going You're kind of
• 21:33
  like your good decks anymore. I tread them things too. I don't well
• 21:38
  because because a good okay, a good deck that is still unplayable little vault
• 21:45
  to her? Is it? I mean, I get it? Is it
• 21:48
  still good? Yeah? This is ah. There was another cast kind of
• 21:53
  trying to have an interesting conversation this on how they're still value going with a
• 21:59
  medio and trying to do the best you can with it and like value and
• 22:03
  fun in that and if that works for you, great, But that's I
• 22:08
  mean, like the rest of us, at least most of the people on
• 22:12
  this show will have a little bit more of a like yeah, no,
• 22:17
  that's that's uh. I mean, but even I'm not a win even to
• 22:21
  that point with the two L O system, like, okay, do that
• 22:26
  anymore? I can't. I can't even. I can't even be like,
• 22:29
  let's see what kind of record I can get with this A minus deck.
• 22:33
  I went on too. Now I'm done. Now I can go. Now
• 22:37
  You're just like, can I get one win before I'm out right, can
• 22:41
  I go too? And two? I mean is that? I mean like
• 22:47
  that's just comes back to Eric is the guy who makes the buttons. I
• 22:52
  took a bunch this year. Sorry sorry. Mandatory participation, not managed,
• 23:00
  but automatic participation and second amber with opt out right, So yeah, you're
• 23:06
  not in the main tournament, that is fine, but it still just pairs
• 23:10
  you as it would gus people with a similar record with you, and you
• 23:12
  can keep playing and fix the garbage prizes over there and let people keep playing
• 23:18
  if they want, and if they don't, it's not a big deal because
• 23:21
  they're not affecting the final standings of the main event. But you can still
• 23:27
  definitely play and it just auto pairs. So if you don't go and hit
• 23:30
  the drop button, you don't even really notice, right, So I know
• 23:36
  last week we talked a little bit about deck ascension and kind of what was
• 23:41
  there here is can you bring basically an anti deck, so your SaaS deck
• 23:48
  that you could really care less about. There's a side event and all of
• 23:51
  these go ahead and get basically gobbled up, whether you call it shredder or
• 23:56
  they're being pushed off that you never see them again. But there is some
• 24:00
  something that the player gets as a result of participating in that event. Yeah,
• 24:06
  it used to be shards and then I could take them to the prize
• 24:08
  wall. I'm just I'm just trying to be able to say, like,
• 24:11
  if you have these decks, where all right, well we went ahead and
• 24:15
  here was the Battle Royale. This deck didn't make it. It's maybe even
• 24:19
  it being like the archon card is then a part of the larger collective,
• 24:23
  part of the trophy or something instead of Shredder. I would be willing to
• 24:30
  play pick slips, right, You're gonna you're gonna have to bring three decks,
• 24:37
  right because you got three rounds to play still, But then you're playing
• 24:40
  pink slips, and if you lose, you just hand your deck over.
• 24:42
  That would be an interesting like survival. Everybody everybody brings three everybody brings three
• 24:49
  decks, and then when you lose a deck, you you are When you
• 24:55
  lose, you lose the deck, and then you and so you're you're in
• 24:59
  until you have more decks, and then I will throw your decks away for
• 25:03
  you so you feel less bad about it. I actually like this format of
• 25:07
  pink Slips. I dig it. I could get behind that the way I
• 25:11
  like to play it. Bring a box of decks and play Pink Slips.
• 25:14
  If that's what if that's how I have to lose my decks instead of shredding
• 25:17
  them, and it makes people better feel a little better. I mean,
• 25:19
  any anything that gets my junk plate a little bit more and then no longer
• 25:25
  in my possession. I'm four. So the way I like it is when
• 25:30
  yeah, go okay, I was gonna say, when you lose, you
• 25:34
  know, it's not like they get all the decks that that you acquired along
• 25:38
  the way, just the deck that you lost with, and any deck in
• 25:41
  your collection is one that you can play and bring with you to the next
• 25:45
  match. I mean, it would definitely be interesting because that seems like a
• 25:51
  reasonable part of the format. It would eliminate I think that might eliminate some
• 25:56
  like high end decks from showing up. Certainly, I don't. I don't
• 26:04
  think she was bringing fraud to Pink Slips. But I'm saying, if you
• 26:07
  can have this deck ascension that every single deck that's in this Pink Slip event
• 26:14
  is gone, this should this should be a vault to her format. But
• 26:18
  but see then you'll get the irrational horder types like myself. Okay, but
• 26:26
  I don't want to lose the deck. So then just open three brand new
• 26:30
  decks for that day to play it. But what if they're good? Or
• 26:36
  ask sheep for three decks and I will give you three decks if you want
• 26:40
  to keep them. Actually that they wouldn't be mine, so that'd be okay
• 26:42
  because I'm weird like that. Yeah, I'm not weird like that. I'll
• 26:47
  lose your decks, I'll lose my decks. I don't care. I like
• 26:51
  this format. This could be something fun, but I think it takes.
• 26:56
  It's another side. It takes a fairly I actually I am wondering if pink
• 27:03
  slips as a replacement to unchained, But you could do it with just on
• 27:08
  chain decks whatever, but pink slips being like just the side of it where
• 27:12
  it's like you just find people and you're playing pink Slip matches throughout the day
• 27:17
  and you sort of probably at the end, whoever's collected the most decks is
• 27:22
  your champion. Are all key forgers hoarders? Well yes, and can't we
• 27:30
  have instead of those weird lean forge people. I don't want attachment to anything,
• 27:36
  and they just purject will. I'm so here's here's where I'm at with
• 27:40
  my key Forage collection, because, like you said, ninety percent of it's
• 27:45
  just a gob of nothing, right, So I'm I'm I'm going to do
• 27:55
  this. I haven't gotten the stuff yet to do it. I haven't made
• 27:56
  it to the store. I'm going to keep five of every card. I'm
• 28:03
  going to keep the archon cards. I'm gonna throw away the rest or I'll
• 28:07
  maybe I'll give them to Eric since he likes to make buttons out of him,
• 28:11
  or I just gonna spend time to flip through. Shouldn't really take that
• 28:17
  long things together. I mean, it's no different than what we used to
• 28:22
  do. Well, maybe not you, but what people do with magic cards.
• 28:26
  Yep, color card name. Once he got four or something, the
• 28:32
  rest just go in that other box. But I'm here because I don't want
• 28:36
  to do that. So after Wookie likes he likes that stuff. It's why
• 28:42
  we're always fighting with him on why ki Forge is actually good because he likes
• 28:48
  the miserable part of other card games. Because my original part was I was
• 28:52
  just going to keep the archon card, toss the rest, okay, because
• 28:56
  if I have the archon card. I that I could always have it,
• 29:00
  you know, in theory reprinted. But then I thought to myself, well,
• 29:03
  hey, you know, maybe I want to proxy some decks, right,
• 29:07
  because that could be a thing that exists, you know, especially when
• 29:14
  we are doing in person testing or whatever the case may be. I'll keep
• 29:19
  the cards to proxy them, I can build. I can quickly build the
• 29:22
  deck and move about my day and not really you know, now that it's
• 29:29
  in a binder, it'll be quick for me and I can just keep the
• 29:32
  ark on cards. And again, if I ever need this deck reprinted for
• 29:34
  whatever reason, in theory, Ghost Galaxy has got given me that option.
• 29:40
  Now, the chances of me needing any of those options are slim, but
• 29:45
  I have it fifty dollars forty nine ninety nine, forty nine ninety five.
• 29:53
  So I hear we just made that up right. We don't know the price,
• 29:56
  right, well, he said, under fifty dollars right, sounds a
• 30:02
  fair guess, so probably forty nine ninety So so I I hear what you're
• 30:06
  doing, Wookie. I think that is an option for growing game. Here
• 30:10
  from Eric Waters, how about those who have collected the most decks get first,
• 30:15
  like you turn in all of those decks that you have acquired from the
• 30:18
  tournament, so they are now ascended or gone, and you get first dib
• 30:23
  off of a unique set of prizes that are there. Oh okay, count
• 30:30
  them into the garbage can. So then they're gone, they're gone. Get
• 30:36
  something else, and then you can get something else off. Maybe you get
• 30:38
  it for every every deck acquired. Not talking a ticket, I'm talking this
• 30:44
  would be a separate event, and like you have to I understand, but
• 30:47
  remember they don't they're not doing shards anymore. Now you get tickets for the
• 30:49
  prize wall. I think that was one off. You're not You're not going
• 30:53
  to see that again. We'll see. Yeah, but let let let's just
• 30:59
  say you would you would get a ticket for the prize wall. Okay,
• 31:06
  I mean pink slips I think would be something community driven more than I think
• 31:15
  forcing ownership changes of decks is not a route that would be people with ghost
• 31:23
  Galaxy stuff. I mean, yeah, yeah, there's the whole fact that
• 31:26
  at the end, you're like, if you actually want to keep money of
• 31:29
  the decks, you'd have to be like, can you do a transfer?
• 31:33
  You'd have to what's your thing about the master if I have a thing,
• 31:37
  you just scan the deck and hit the button and people be like, oh
• 31:40
  yeah, that's one I lost and just click the button. Okay, I
• 31:42
  don't think it would actually be a big deal, but it is a whole
• 31:47
  like deck ownership and the whole stuff that I I just don't see Gigi actually
• 31:52
  supporting it. Event that forces deck ownership change, although it's the same reason
• 31:57
  they won't officially support shredder, but they all allow it. We just need
• 32:05
  like more extreme forms of shredder, Right, how do you get more extreme?
• 32:09
  He has always put Alliance Shredder lion shot. No, I think like
• 32:15
  you play wetter, yeah, so you doesn't expect you just play in the
• 32:22
  pool and like if a card sinks, that creature died. Are you like
• 32:29
  bouncing the cards and you play them on top of the water, Like try
• 32:36
  it goes down, You's gonna get upset and it just goes down. You
• 32:42
  know, I'll just be cannon ball Bo'll blow up everybody's cards if it floats,
• 32:50
  Does it come back? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah? I think it.
• 32:57
  They're all good choices. All right, boys, Now this was not
• 33:01
  part of tonight's topic. We have no loan. This is this is where
• 33:05
  other like other casts would be completely done at this point, and we have
• 33:08
  just thrown out with Wetter and we were done when we still were done,
• 33:15
  all right, Yeah, I mean we we went op watch right, and
• 33:20
  then we ended up with Wetter, and then nobody really had to wire suck
• 33:28
  at key Forge moment because we all we just came up with this idea because
• 33:32
  we're all just too good, well mainly because of no, why do I
• 33:37
  suck at key Forge? I keep paying money to not be able to play
• 33:39
  a game. We'll go with that, and then well we're sad as sad
• 33:52
  as Bubbitt right there are Well, I had things to say, but a
• 33:59
  little really a little light on singles this week for the swear Jarre. So
• 34:05
  we're just gonna have to keep it there. So we're gonna move into We're
• 34:10
  not going to do the deck this week. We're gonna keep our final We're
• 34:15
  gonna keep We're gonna keep that in our back pocket for biggest beginning of January,
• 34:20
  when we still have no op news, we do we want to guess
• 34:25
  when we'll actually hear something over under? Yeah, you want to do the
• 34:30
  over under? Should we go by month or no? No, no,
• 34:32
  I mean we could have like a calendar in whoever's closest gets a unique prize
• 34:37
  because next Tuesday, Next Tuesday, the nineteenth. Yep, those that's bold
• 34:46
  Christmas. That's good. I'm just all right, well, I guess I
• 34:52
  should write this down then deep next Tuesday that'd be twelve nineteen. Oh okay,
• 35:02
  let's let's let's get the chat in here to. Eric says that,
• 35:07
  what do you say? Well, he said December thirty seconds, So that's
• 35:09
  where his belief is. Okay, well, that's my favorite delivery date whenever,
• 35:15
  like like, hey, we're gonna deliver the software like in you know,
• 35:20
  December. I'm right, I'm right down. Don't worry, it's coming
• 35:23
  on December thirty second. There'll be there, guys. First five. I
• 35:30
  don't twenty twenty five? Oh no, he just said twenty. He said,
• 35:34
  twenty twenty. Q five is the first quarter. Next Q five another
• 35:37
  great one? All right? Who else we got? Sheep? Who's up
• 35:44
  next? I can't see my list Southerly, I'm gonna go for like late
• 35:51
  January. I'll throw the twenty six out there, all right, twenty sixth
• 35:55
  of January, four to six weeks they met eight to twelve weeks. Listen,
• 36:00
  that's what happened that you don't run on their calendar. We covered this
• 36:07
  earlier. I don't know if we didn't cover this earlier because if it never
• 36:10
  recorded, it didn't happen. So yeah, I'm thinking out a similar path.
• 36:16
  Right, So so if they have had four to six weeks, so
• 36:20
  you take the ceiling of that, right, six weeks, maybe you figure
• 36:22
  it's going to take fifty percent longer than that. So that's nine weeks.
• 36:30
  So so nine weeks puts us twelve weeks. Oh you said fifty percent,
• 36:36
  never mind set fifty percent not arms center nine. That puts us at the
• 36:39
  third week of January. Yeah, so I think mid January. I mean
• 36:45
  battle guests coming in a little late day. Valentine's president February fifteen, So
• 36:51
  for that one, yeah, February fifteenth. Hey, with these predictions,
• 36:57
  we would still hate I will have spread by February fifteenth. WHOA, like,
• 37:07
  wait, time out time, let's back up to that statement. Can
• 37:09
  you increase your amount of distaste and hate? He can? I've been being
• 37:17
  civil you? Well, you've been being civil? Yes, this is being
• 37:22
  civil man. I am in his boat, though, like I think he's
• 37:30
  been absolutely fine. Like I don't know, Like what do you need to
• 37:36
  actually like, what did you need to what was their wording for it?
• 37:43
  They needed to review the old piece? What what did they need to review
• 37:46
  to see how much money they lost? I mean, what are you reviewing?
• 37:51
  I mean maybe, I mean that's that's the only thing you could be
• 37:55
  reviewing is how much money you will like to lose next year. I mean
• 38:06
  they were also reviewing how many LAPS players came back and zero no, no,
• 38:10
  no, specifically how many came back and played Alliance, Because that's I
• 38:15
  answered your question. Zero. That's real hard map. I only have six
• 38:21
  fingers and I can count that that's how many came back. I mean I
• 38:30
  did not did. Okay most of you guys, But it's not a joke,
• 38:37
  is the problem. You can continue to say we joke, but it's
• 38:40
  not a joke anymore. Literally, Okay, so you most, Okay,
• 38:45
  Dascore you went to most, you went to quite a number, you walk
• 38:50
  and Sheep you went to most. I think the only one both of you
• 38:52
  missed was Vegas, Miss Vegas, Vegas and Seattle. Sheep was there.
• 39:00
  How many players did you see come back that maybe you didn't see online anymore.
• 39:08
  Well, that doesn't mean they're returning players because it's hard. It's kind
• 39:13
  of the hard mark that I'm using as it because like probably about forty of
• 39:20
  the player base, yeah, I can think of exactly one, but it's
• 39:23
  hard to be able to tell who's from your local players. Yeah, who
• 39:28
  just came out for the event, because that's really what you're looking at.
• 39:31
  I don't know online right right that were there, But that doesn't mean they
• 39:37
  were laps players. They're just not active playing TCO because he's like a lot
• 39:43
  of people have very little interest in the onoficial online. Anybody can play anything
• 39:47
  variantive key Forge well, and key Forge Online is a it's a different game
• 39:54
  than it is in person. There is a social it's and I will tell
• 40:00
  there's people who don't play Magic correct. They don't want to play a lot
• 40:05
  because that's not that they're not playing these games to play them on a digital
• 40:09
  screen. They're looking at the social aspect the in when you're playing TCO,
• 40:15
  that's kind of lost. There's you're missing some formalities you're you're missing and sitting
• 40:20
  across from someone laughing and joking about random cards and plays and things that are
• 40:24
  happening. You've seen the tears as I crush them. Yeah, there's no
• 40:29
  shredder on the radio button options CCO, all right, opportunity, all right,
• 40:37
  So, uh, the draftscore. I need a date from you,
• 40:39
  like an actual date, like not third week of January like I needed.
• 40:43
  Okay, well, i'll help the calendar. Le's I must say January.
• 40:52
  No, I was about to say January seventeenth. That's the day before we
• 40:54
  record. I think it's the day after we record, So it's going to
• 40:57
  be January nineteenth, so that we have to wait. It's gotta wait a
• 41:00
  whole week. You miss it. There, they will. They will hit
• 41:04
  it on the day that we're gonna record. Yeah, okay, oh yeah,
• 41:07
  oh yeah. It'll actually be while we're actually as soon as we're done,
• 41:13
  that's when they'll release it. No you know what, No, no,
• 41:16
  no, no, no, I think far more influence than we do.
• 41:22
  I'm gonna go no, no, I'm gonna go on. I think
• 41:25
  Josh announces on this cast on January eighteen. Come on, Josh, let's
• 41:30
  do it. But make it happen. Jeremy who denies us, Yeah yeah,
• 41:36
  yeah, Jeremany like speaker Jeremy, you guys rating, you rated him
• 41:40
  so poorly on our scale. He really took he took offense to that.
• 41:45
  Well. I think I think if he comes and talks about it, well,
• 41:49
  well we'll put him like Neck and Neck would in his place. He
• 41:52
  just announced, yeah right here, he might work his way all the way
• 41:57
  up to third. Well that's the third bottom. But boys, I think
• 42:02
  the bottom. I think that you really really missed an opportunity here beer key
• 42:08
  for with shots. No beer damn, that is missing today. Today's is
• 42:16
  the Steel Brewery tour bus, double dry hops hazy So but no, what
• 42:22
  was really cool? No? No, Godric in mosaic, But you missed
• 42:30
  on the twelfth. Earlier this week, we got an update from Game Found.
• 42:36
  We're getting there, did we? Yeah? We did, even say
• 42:39
  I don't even remember custom item printing. Okay, that's what you got out
• 42:45
  of all that? Well that that's that's the header, and yes, that's
• 42:52
  that's pretty much there. Man, there was there was one thing. So
• 42:55
  basically, yes, they made an update on Game found ewok, I need
• 43:00
  your date to mine is Christmas. I think that it's going to be a
• 43:06
  Christmas They're gonna hit I'm going straight on Christmas. That's the day. Man.
• 43:10
  Man, this guy Matt Poster is getting a lot of items from GG.
• 43:16
  Yes, Matt Post, Yes, Matt Poster. Fine, Matt posts
• 43:21
  anyways right next to Janet. Okay, yep, that's we get so many
• 43:30
  Matts and posters because they have an employee named Matt Poster that he's got to
• 43:36
  accomplish. They're they're design guys named Matt Poster. Yep. Now, I
• 43:44
  know this is now. I know this is going to go above a lot
• 43:47
  of people. But Sydney, your post with all of the Janet drinks this
• 43:52
  week really made my day tonight. When I finally got around to it,
• 43:55
  I did see that drinks. Hold on, where is this cut on Facebook?
• 44:00
  No? No, no, no no, this is our general but
• 44:06
  uh, for all the fans of the good place out there, Janet now
• 44:10
  has even more meaning here with Gigi. So I love it. I love
• 44:15
  it. Well done. Where is this drink listing? I like drinks.
• 44:23
  I'm just anyway competitive And then and then Josh put it in here competitive spreadsheeting.
• 44:29
  Yeah yeah, I need now, I need to know more. I
• 44:32
  need our opie, uh our OPI dreams. Why are coming from how you
• 44:39
  can beat in spreadsheets, let's apply that to Keyfde. Well, so when
• 44:45
  you're seeing this and you're seeing you're now going to play twenty seven deck alliance.
• 44:52
  So when we're seeing this complex banning and picking and and you're gonna have
• 44:58
  to do with a spreadsheet. So when we're seeing this and we're seeing others
• 45:01
  who are going ahead and off joining the lore Kana group, man, we
• 45:06
  desperately need to be able to see some some actual work here and some updates
• 45:09
  what's happening. So this sweek custom item printing because that is our our news
• 45:15
  and amazing news. Temperatures in snow are falling Minnesota. Wasn't there something about
• 45:21
  your favorite brobnar? Something was that this week? There was a there was
• 45:29
  a Twitter posters sometime no Twitter, I do. There was a Facebook.
• 45:37
  There was a Facebook post because I replied to it with my typical no no
• 45:42
  care. So they said work on the key Fords Grimmer Miners campaign continues as
• 45:47
  we inch closer to fulfillment. No, I mean look there, I mean
• 45:54
  we're we're complaining about op because that that is what we want the most.
• 45:59
  It is good that they are keeping people so abreast of their progress, and
• 46:05
  they seem to be making good progress, Like this is the right thing to
• 46:07
  do when you're running a game Found and you're trying to get word out of
• 46:10
  it. So they're they're doing the right things the via the visa v what
• 46:15
  you should do and yes, and it seems to be they seem to be
• 46:21
  doing it better than last time. That's all well and good. Is there
• 46:25
  a reason though, that these these game Found updates are nowhere linked with Ghost
• 46:34
  Galaxy? Yeah, because their media, Well that would be that would be
• 46:37
  extra work. I understand, I understand, but we knew we need thing
• 46:42
  centrally located. I mean the idea when we if you didn't back game Found,
• 46:46
  you don't kind of don't care, But can't you bury that in one
• 46:52
  of the threads so if you are on their actual website you can still find
• 46:55
  it, but it's not the major items, so it can still be lost
• 47:00
  anything with it now, Like why would they push it on their main page
• 47:02
  anymore? Well, you say that, but we also didn't have a single
• 47:07
  link for worlds that happened, which was their own event. I just I
• 47:12
  think there's a lot of missed opportunity. I'm not disagreeing that there is a
• 47:16
  general lack of interesting content provided directly from gg. I just don't think the
• 47:23
  game found being linked there would be what you would want, right. We
• 47:30
  could have a side scroller that could go ahead, game Found update with a
• 47:35
  link to it, man that can disappear after while. Anyway, that's a
• 47:37
  lot of coding. I mean, we don't also never have a game Found
• 47:43
  again and be better off. They don't have a Southerly that can just make
• 47:46
  things happen like we do. All right, custom items. After the deadline
• 47:52
  for sumiting custom names and information, the team went right to work. Guys.
• 47:55
  They did not take four to six weeks here, and they went right
• 47:59
  to where getting decks generated for print. This time around, we not only
• 48:02
  had to account for the custom decks and play mets, but also posters.
• 48:07
  You know what, maybe poster maybe maybe that's why they didn't want to say
• 48:13
  it. It's not four to six weeks to review. It's four to six
• 48:16
  weeks of everybody back in the Waterhouse backing because they actually have the staff to
• 48:23
  produce the game. So yeah, Jeremy and Josh, they're literally back there
• 48:30
  just packing boxes with posts. That's why they're not getting anything because they're making
• 48:37
  product, and you know that that is that is a tough thing, like
• 48:42
  in a really small shop, like you can't do everything. I just you
• 48:46
  know where I stand on the subject. I don't care about more product until
• 48:49
  I have uh more OP. So if they had provided an OP plan and
• 48:57
  schedule for next year, my Game Found would have been twice as is what
• 49:00
  it was. But I just put in enough to get a couple of the
• 49:04
  fancy edge decks because that kind of interests me from my dumb junk collector aspect
• 49:12
  I have. But I just can't spend money on a game I don't know
• 49:15
  what I'm really doing with it. I'll still keep up fancy edge deck even
• 49:21
  if I throw away everything else. But I think that's a really important concept
• 49:25
  that needs to be like highlighted Star like say that again, cheap. You
• 49:31
  would have spent more money had there been an actual plan that was presented first,
• 49:37
  and I don't think well. I also would have bitched a whole lot
• 49:40
  about it still being a Game Found because I would rather buy my product through
• 49:44
  retail, through a retail place I'm playing games at. But in general,
• 49:49
  like at this point, even when Grimm reminders comes out, I'm going to
• 49:53
  buy the minimum to support my local store. No, I agree with you.
• 49:59
  I'm just telling you that you're not the only one. There are others
• 50:02
  in our community that have voiced that, and we need to be able to
• 50:06
  express it. This is why planning to be able to attend OP events is
• 50:09
  really important. Large OP events, which is what I'm talking about. But
• 50:14
  if we want to increase the sales, let people know what the plan is,
• 50:20
  have a plan put together. Anyway you're talking to this, you're talking
• 50:25
  to the company that made a presentation three days before they had to present that
• 50:31
  said yeah, I three, then say nothing else and then show everybody how
• 50:39
  it keep is made. Not that we don't have videos about that already.
• 50:45
  Yeah, I mean just in time delivery like is a thing. Yeah.
• 50:49
  I know a lot of companies are that they're on the end. They're trying
• 50:52
  to do the best that they can with the with with what they are given.
• 50:55
  I know it's a small group and you joke about being in the warehouse.
• 50:59
  It's very possible that we're taking people in order to be able to help
• 51:01
  assist. But the end result is we have a little higher expectation. I
• 51:07
  know that I have very limited resources for my own work, but you still
• 51:12
  got to make it work. And there's some people who just they don't,
• 51:15
  but then there's others that will. And I find myself in that cab.
• 51:21
  So that's why I'm still here, going well, let's figure it out.
• 51:24
  I think this next line in the game Found campaign was very interesting personally.
• 51:28
  This included changing the text font used to help us identify what custom play met
• 51:34
  goes where like, it's a really odd statement, but there are updates that
• 51:39
  they're trying to make it more efficient so that you're not going ahead and having
• 51:44
  the wrong product. So maybe that was an important change for them, but
• 51:47
  as someone on the outside, it's very it's a small comic. Sands was
• 51:54
  not the right choice. So they also like we took we took that a
• 52:00
  step further by also putting each of these items in their own box and putting
• 52:05
  a printed label on them. So what they're doing is they're saying, hey,
• 52:08
  we actually modified our process so that it becomes easier for us to be
• 52:12
  able to grab this and make it more efficient. I'm more excited that we
• 52:15
  are making font jokes on this is that Sarah or Sands? Sarah, what
• 52:22
  do you think, oh, there are comic sands kind of place. We
• 52:25
  know it's all elephants. It's all elephants. So I can't think of the
• 52:31
  metric right now, but maybe we should gamble on some metric of how many
• 52:36
  orders get screwed up in this game found because it was significant unacceptably high on
• 52:43
  the last one, which is why they're trying to change it. So I
• 52:45
  give them credit there that they identified. I'm not saying there isn't credit.
• 52:50
  That's why I'm saying I'm not sure what the metric is is because I expect
• 52:53
  it to reduce, but I'm not convinced it reduces to a acceptable unacceptable.
• 53:01
  Now, I guess I'm curious for our community. That's here me post it
• 53:06
  in our discord or even the next section is the great hunt? Didn't didn't
• 53:12
  you see the post about the cell phone that scans all the dextimation. There's
• 53:15
  no duplicates. It was the light on there, the lightboard. It's got
• 53:22
  his own like pixel three A in there. That's right, just to make
• 53:27
  sure we don't have any duplicates. Look at it. So maybe it's just
• 53:30
  me because work is always trying to be able to put more curriculum, more
• 53:34
  items that are on the plates, and it's just there isn't enough time.
• 53:37
  But that's what I'm kind of seeing with adventures with the Game Found campaign as
• 53:42
  a whole. What really, if we need to scale back so that we
• 53:45
  can have an efficient company, how many people are truly actively engaged in asking
• 53:54
  for adventures like I think? And maybe this is just because I'm coming from
• 53:59
  a competitive key for it standpoint that Keyboardge Adventures is great. We can go
• 54:02
  ahead and play in and enjoy it, but it is not. It is
• 54:07
  not the thing that I am saying. You know what campaign I did not
• 54:14
  go and get the Game Found campaign because of key Forge Adventures. I think
• 54:16
  it's so far down on the list. It's like, well, it's already
• 54:20
  there, so if it gets thrown in, yeay. But it's another thing
• 54:22
  that slows it off, if that makes it okay. But key Fordge Adventures
• 54:27
  is one of the few things they have very clear metrics on, which is
• 54:36
  they know how much it costs to develop them, they know how much they
• 54:39
  sell. It's a very easy one for them to say this is worth doing
• 54:45
  now to us, it doesn't provide value. That doesn't mean it isn't selling
• 54:52
  enough out there, And this is one of those things we've I've kind of
• 54:53
  touched on it, like we are super duper out of touch with the casual
• 54:59
  player. The number of posts we all read every week on the discords and
• 55:04
  the reddits of people who don't even know that there are key for there wasn't
• 55:10
  They didn't even know there was Vault Tours last year. The amount of people
• 55:13
  are interested in keys because they weren't playing for they weren't posted anywhere I know.
• 55:19
  But those people are probably buying these adventures if they find out about them,
• 55:24
  right, Like, there are a number of people who are like I
• 55:25
  backed the first one or I didn't even know what's going on afterwards. And
• 55:29
  it's because yes, the outreach is a trosis, but this is a very
• 55:35
  easy metric. They can pretty easily say, like it costs us this much
• 55:38
  to make them, we're selling this money copies, this is worth continuing,
• 55:44
  right, It's an easy thing for them to do. And I agree,
• 55:51
  Like, because they didn't have metrics I doubt with the first one, right,
• 55:54
  the ones they'd gotten from FFG, but they did they actually might have
• 56:00
  that data like they might, but I think a hard thing that those the
• 56:06
  proof is the easier to figure out. Yeah, the proof is in the
• 56:09
  pudding with the uh gorman Geist. Right. So I think the same three
• 56:14
  people that I saw at Extra Crispy playing gorman Geist over and over against Yeah,
• 56:19
  I think there's more than I think there's more than three. But again,
• 56:22
  Kirkman here, adventures isn't something I'm interested in at this time. Didn't
• 56:27
  play Commander, but would be interested in playing that or multiplayer. I love
• 56:30
  drafting formats. Wish I could play more Cube. Now with this statement,
• 56:34
  what I'm really getting at is use the community. Use the community. We
• 56:37
  have people who have invested time, who are doing Cube, who are going
• 56:42
  ahead and do command in the community. No, no, I'm telling you,
• 56:45
  sheep, stop using resources in order to go ahead and take away from
• 56:50
  OPE and the next set and put it and let the community do that and
• 56:53
  instead focus on our OP and the next There is a world where we're just
• 56:59
  raw and their money is better spent overall on selling decks through the junk they're
• 57:06
  doing than what we want. Right that, I hear that we don't know
• 57:09
  and they are so cryptic on what the hell is going on? We have
• 57:15
  no idea, but I'm gonna go ahead and sell something and I'm going to
• 57:17
  be slapped for it, but the end result is right now, other game
• 57:22
  companies are doing things. They're the hot newness that is attracting you, and
• 57:25
  they're putting together events that you look at the number of players showing up at
• 57:31
  your lor ConA crap versus the amount they're set. I'm like, it's like
• 57:38
  they are selling way more than people who are playing that stuff. That's true
• 57:42
  of almost every game. I mean, we think it's a good way to
• 57:47
  do and clearly, ope and organized play does lead to sales to some extent.
• 57:54
  I'm not knowledgeable on that stuff, but casual non op is also a
• 58:01
  very large amount of sales. And I don't know what the ratio is.
• 58:05
  I don't know what the ratio and our game is. But just listening,
• 58:10
  even a bunch of the people who are active in this community, you see
• 58:14
  them posting and these people didn't go to a single event this year, and
• 58:17
  they go, I may never go to event, but I like this game
• 58:22
  right, Like, oh no, But it's not critical to everybody. It's
• 58:30
  critical to us, this cast, the players here. It is make or
• 58:37
  break for this game. That doesn't mean it's make or break for the game.
• 58:40
  I'm saying that local OP is very different from a large OP event,
• 58:45
  and that mean less and less convinced that's true too. I mean, I
• 58:52
  think it's important, but I don't know what the actual numbers and how you
• 58:58
  show any proof. And like FFG is a company that has run a lot
• 59:02
  of games and made quite a lot of money and did quite a lot of
• 59:07
  OP stuff, so they know there is a value to it, but that
• 59:09
  doesn't mean it's the value we put on it. I will say that I
• 59:17
  disagree with that, and I will leave it there. You can disagree with
• 59:22
  it, but neither of us have any actual facts to support our arguments because
• 59:28
  we don't know what does offer outside of its organized play, the same thing
• 59:38
  all games offer a game, Like there are lots of games that don't even
• 59:44
  really have functional OPI and stuff. But if I'm a casual player, right,
• 59:49
  like, how much am I actually buying? Don't know they well,
• 59:55
  I don't know if yeah, they might now right, I mean, I'm
• 59:59
  almost to the point where like if GIG could be like, here's data to
• 1:00:04
  prove that they're I mean, most games definitely have more casual players who will
• 1:00:10
  never go to a high end event unless it's near them or in their city.
• 1:00:17
  They they will only go to their locals to play kitchen table. I
• 1:00:23
  just don't really think is a big of a thing as it used to be
• 1:00:28
  anymore. I keep listening to people and reading things where their main way of
• 1:00:32
  playing is with themselves, like else to play with decrease our players. It
• 1:00:43
  certainly could be that, and it could be just that's all they want to
• 1:00:46
  do like that. I'm just saying, like we we often and I'm with
• 1:00:52
  you guys totally, like I get very much on my bandwagon and I think
• 1:00:57
  what I say and what I am right, but it there there is counter
• 1:01:01
  arguments to what we're saying, and we don't have fact. We just have
• 1:01:07
  our gut feeling and belief. Well, the fact is that are maybe I'm
• 1:01:12
  not increasing, but decreasing. That I can tell you. And the amount
• 1:01:15
  of decks that were purchased two yes, yes, yes, And the amount
• 1:01:21
  of decks that we know that the decks that we're just twenty eighteen and twenty
• 1:01:27
  nineteen were significantly more. The game has progressed, but right now we have
• 1:01:34
  a decreasing populace and we have a decreasing amount of decks being produced. Oh,
• 1:01:40
  there's definitely a de convince between correct. Totally agree, Like there is
• 1:01:47
  a reduction in sales, a reduction in active players. I I don't know.
• 1:01:54
  Yes, there were people that were at our first KFC that did not
• 1:01:59
  show up, but our second they were players see it. But no,
• 1:02:02
  no, no, no, Here's where I kind of agree with Sheep.
• 1:02:07
  You had a lot more events in twenty twenty three than you did in twenty
• 1:02:12
  twenty two. KFC was the one and only place you could go and a
• 1:02:17
  major event to play key Forge were probably when it comes down to straight money,
• 1:02:27
  we are pre hiatus to post hiatus numbers like that's but like that don't
• 1:02:31
  have another last that was the only large event in twenty twenty two, and
• 1:02:37
  from switching from a company who did fail us to a company who was attempting
• 1:02:40
  to succeed, Like, yes, there have been huge failures in this game.
• 1:02:49
  All I'm all I'm saying is like Gigi's decisions may not line up with
• 1:02:53
  what we think are right, and there may be real numbers behind it.
• 1:02:58
  I don't know. I'm also just preparing myself for disappointment when it doesn't align
• 1:03:06
  with what I think would actually drive and being able to justify it and be
• 1:03:09
  able to suck up and deal with being more miserable than I am. Now,
• 1:03:17
  I mean, I definitely see a world in twenty twenty four where there
• 1:03:21
  are no high end key forge amarts. Now I see a world where that
• 1:03:25
  exists. I do. I can see all kinds of bad things. I
• 1:03:30
  can see why before and they go, haha, we got the last money
• 1:03:32
  we're gonna get from you, guys. I will tell you as I in
• 1:03:37
  the Carwookie like, if there is no vault to her, if there is
• 1:03:40
  no large event outside of worlds, this game for the most part is tanked.
• 1:03:45
  It's gone. You have too many top level key for players that they're
• 1:03:51
  already going ahead and looking for other games. They're already trying to play other
• 1:03:55
  games because they're not engaged right now. This is also under the assumption that
• 1:04:00
  this is a thing that GG continues to want to put. Yeah, there
• 1:04:04
  is that number which he's talking about. He's posted some things, but there's
• 1:04:10
  that other stuff where we heard there's what seven million printed decks and less than
• 1:04:15
  half of them are scanned, which means most of them went to casuals that
• 1:04:18
  don't care about OP, are they? That says a lot, yes,
• 1:04:25
  But when you're looking at this, he's also taking twenty nineteen numbers, which
• 1:04:29
  again is pre pen. I'm just saying overall, your content producers and those
• 1:04:34
  who are playing weekly in large events for OP or super large events where you
• 1:04:42
  would consider our vault tour is what goes ahead and pushes a lot of other
• 1:04:46
  individuals to find the game, to stay interested in the game, to be
• 1:04:49
  talking about the GG already said they believe in aspirational events. So those other
• 1:04:57
  companies you're always competing against the new hot This is the star burns the quicker,
• 1:05:03
  it burns out. But but this is the some words that don't mean
• 1:05:09
  anything. Larkana is going to only make it because it is attached to Disney.
• 1:05:14
  No Arcana is going to Lacana is going to go ahead and make it
• 1:05:16
  because Lacana is investing first. If I if I have, have you gone
• 1:05:23
  ahead and seen the second set in what Hold On Again? It's still ugly?
• 1:05:29
  Let me ask you this, and I'm just gonna kind of like put
• 1:05:31
  a stamp on this. If it wasn't Disney, if it was called Larkana,
• 1:05:36
  and it just had pictures on it. Would you play it? Yeah?
• 1:05:41
  Again, it's another game that's there, right, But that wasn't my
• 1:05:45
  question. My question was if it was not Disney, did you know that
• 1:05:51
  just a couple of weeks ago, Flesh and Blood had their nation that had
• 1:05:55
  their world tournament that was going on over in Barcelona. His question still not
• 1:05:59
  what I mean that Flesh and Blood had a bucket of people at their World
• 1:06:06
  Championships in Barcelona. And again we are getting into an argument of comparing a
• 1:06:12
  card game that we play that is not a traditional collectible building card game and
• 1:06:16
  trying to say it should be the same as these other games. That's not
• 1:06:19
  how it's going to ever work. It's different people with different wants. Or
• 1:06:26
  you push Alliance and you go back down wookies crazy ass roads, like why
• 1:06:30
  is it allies? Just build whatever you want? Because most of the people
• 1:06:32
  play this game are here because they don't want to play that stuff in this
• 1:06:38
  game, because we don't want to do what the other games do. So
• 1:06:42
  even many, not all, many people are playing this card game and not
• 1:06:48
  other cards. And there are many reasons why people won't play this card game.
• 1:06:53
  That is true, and that's why I'm saying you can't compare our numbers
• 1:06:56
  and our things to other card games because it's not. But I don't think
• 1:07:00
  it's wrong to have I don't think it's wrong to have aspirations. I don't
• 1:07:06
  I think it's wrong to want more. Yeah, I think the problem is
• 1:07:11
  but hold on my question should still realize if it wasn't Disney, would you
• 1:07:15
  buy Lorkana because what's there, Star Wars whatever is coming out? To be
• 1:07:24
  honest, right now, right now, I am more engaged with other games
• 1:07:29
  that are coming out because there's nothing from key Forge. But is it the
• 1:07:33
  OP that's driving you or is it the I P? So so here here's
• 1:07:40
  the difference. The I the I P will drive me to try it.
• 1:07:44
  The OP is what's going to carry me to be able to play in the
• 1:07:46
  group. And and key Forge has always been there because of the community.
• 1:07:51
  But the end result is if if any game can put out a community where
• 1:07:57
  I enjoy spending time with that, I'm more interested to be able to go
• 1:08:00
  there. You have how many Markana events have you been to? To be
• 1:08:05
  honest, my family has been to the ar kind of events. I have
• 1:08:09
  made the decision to go ahead and stay true to key Forge, but it
• 1:08:12
  is becoming harder and harder to be able to do that. It is it
• 1:08:17
  is a true love. I mean, it's important to be able to know
• 1:08:19
  that. And so when your true love is basically going ahead over in the
• 1:08:25
  corner with some random stranger saying I could care less about you because we're not
• 1:08:29
  going to put OPE events because we heard you loud and clear, and there's
• 1:08:32
  not it's more players than us every week. Like, there are lots of
• 1:08:36
  other games past play. So the Lorkana, which we're saying, yes,
• 1:08:43
  I would have still tried it. How about Battle Spirit Saga, no,
• 1:08:46
  okay. How about Don Evans nope? How about Grim Path Nope, we
• 1:08:51
  didn't play that one. Sorcery nope, nobody's sorcery is there? Actually,
• 1:08:58
  if I have, if I have somebody to play with, I would think
• 1:09:02
  about it. And all these games have some level of OPE support going on.
• 1:09:08
  So a game having an OP support doesn't mean we care because we're not
• 1:09:13
  in cerative card game players in that way. But we talked about this,
• 1:09:16
  We talked about this long ago. So the end result is with OP,
• 1:09:20
  I want it to be something that is present in our store. Okay,
• 1:09:25
  if it's not happening in my store, it's not happening in my universe,
• 1:09:28
  if that makes sense. And it's a very centralized focus. So how do
• 1:09:31
  you like the result? So how do you get players into the store?
• 1:09:38
  Because questions? All Right, I don't I don't think running an event is
• 1:09:44
  going like, hey, we've got an event going on. I don't think
• 1:09:46
  that drives anybody new or anybody who used to play to an event. All
• 1:09:51
  Right, we've hit an hour, and we're also just about to go into
• 1:09:56
  a subject that we've covered almost every week for the past six months that we
• 1:10:01
  know. But now I'm starting to lean on your Now I'm starting to lean
• 1:10:04
  on your side. Well, it doesn't matter because we don't have any I
• 1:10:08
  mean, like, I don't want to devolve into almost identical words as to
• 1:10:13
  what we said last week and the week before and the week before that,
• 1:10:15
  because that really does not make great re listening content when we are same dead
• 1:10:24
  horses right now topics anyway, So we're certainly not, but we're also not
• 1:10:30
  covering anything even moderately new, because nothing has changed in the last Well,
• 1:10:36
  this is the problem when you get when you get no new news. We
• 1:10:43
  got this you know, it's said with slow motions better than no motion,
• 1:10:47
  but we got no motion. There's no motion in my ocean. So what
• 1:10:51
  the fuck is going on? What do I do? I'm left in a
• 1:10:54
  stuper I'm left in a stupid sitting on my couch looking at my boxes and
• 1:11:00
  boxxes of key forards, decks that I don't know what I'm gonna do with.
• 1:11:02
  Well, I have an idea what I'm gonna do, but I don't
• 1:11:04
  know what I'm gonna do with them. I'm gonna go three for I'm gonna
• 1:11:09
  go on and I'm gonna see Sheep come in drop two games, go home,
• 1:11:15
  be more depressed than he was when he's like and then it's like,
• 1:11:18
  why did I even come? I don't know why you guys are worried.
• 1:11:21
  I mean, Josh is gonna be here on January eighteenth telling us about all
• 1:11:26
  the great things that are going to happen, right, Yeah, that's what's
• 1:11:30
  gonna happen, right, I mean, by January eighteenth, I'll have vacation
• 1:11:33
  again, and I'll be able to drive back up to Minnesota and kick some
• 1:11:35
  ass. You are we gonna go? Are we gonna go attend the uh
• 1:11:42
  oh wait, no, I think that's going on going live to sheep on
• 1:11:45
  site at the game because he was running the Ugly Sweater event, which I
• 1:11:47
  thought was kind of cool. But that's have you guys gonnaheadn't even seeing the
• 1:11:51
  difference in amount of players on TCO. Yeah, I players on tc out
• 1:12:00
  because I don't think it's actually indicative of the real health of the game.
• 1:12:04
  What is indicative of the health of the game at this point numbers We don't
• 1:12:09
  have actual sales, ye, stuff that we don't have, they don't if
• 1:12:13
  it's just saying very small numbers. Honestly, I think the Game Found really
• 1:12:17
  hits that because people invested in the Game Found versus going out and supporting their
• 1:12:21
  local stores. So if we're just looking, if we're just looking all play,
• 1:12:27
  trump's oh p play. So you're saying Game Found is casual play.
• 1:12:34
  I'm saying, yep, yeah, game game Found. I don't know actual
• 1:12:39
  play more than it supports O people. I don't think most I don't think
• 1:12:43
  Kickstarter supports casualty over no way. Yeah, the amount of the amount of
• 1:12:49
  people who would I hadn't paid, and we're paying roughly like large amounts of
• 1:12:55
  money. No way, would I say that those are casual players? No,
• 1:12:59
  yes, because they don't care about the games. They can't buy it
• 1:13:02
  in their store, so they might as well buy it on game found.
• 1:13:05
  Like you're also talking about interesting care. These players aren't the players that are
• 1:13:14
  buying it from the game found. Nine times out of ten aren't attached to
• 1:13:16
  a game store. They don't care whether the game is because there is no
• 1:13:19
  game store. I disagree. I think if you look at both of the
• 1:13:24
  game found campaigns individuals who are there, you see many individuals from our key
• 1:13:30
  Forge community who you're talking about. I think you're talking about vault to our
• 1:13:34
  players, which are different, not necessarily different, but at somewhat of a
• 1:13:40
  different value than just store level aspirational. Even even looking at our own new
• 1:13:46
  player who came back who now has joined us a second game found, not
• 1:13:51
  the second, but the first one he did, And that's an important component
• 1:13:56
  to be able to keep in mind. I mean, it's really important for
• 1:14:00
  GG to figure out why they had twice as much on the first one as
• 1:14:02
  the second one, and people didn't want to give them as much money because
• 1:14:05
  they had on the first one and told us it would never happen again.
• 1:14:11
  Well, they never said it would never happen again. They harm they said
• 1:14:15
  it it was so it was more exciting, all right. So there's somebody
• 1:14:19
  in the the chat named Little Why and saying, yeah, Little Why,
• 1:14:25
  And what they're saying is, hey Jr. Six two hundred people backed Winds
• 1:14:31
  of Exchange. Less than five hundred nique players participated in OP in twenty three.
• 1:14:38
  Therefore, the majority is obviously oh caps casual. But the end but
• 1:14:43
  the end result is you're looking at a percent You're looking at a percentage.
• 1:14:46
  You're never going to get one hundred percent of people who are going to back
• 1:14:49
  again this. You're never going to get a hundred percent. No no,
• 1:14:53
  no, no, no no no. But what you're talking about is large
• 1:14:57
  scale OPE versus if you look at and we don't have that data because unfortunately,
• 1:15:01
  unlike FFG, where we had the stores that were running events week in
• 1:15:05
  week out, we don't have that. So we don't know how many people
• 1:15:09
  went to their local p but had no chance to be able to come out
• 1:15:13
  to major Vault tour level OP because one they release dates late or change dates
• 1:15:19
  or when I hadn't moved it, or it wasn't in an area that would
• 1:15:23
  give them a lot of credit that I don't think is is there like there
• 1:15:30
  was enough operation. Now there is another percentage of this people who yes,
• 1:15:35
  did not even have a vault to or close enough them to seriously consider.
• 1:15:41
  Right, it was even tough for several Canadians, right, and they at
• 1:15:45
  least could get to North America. And then there was only one in all
• 1:15:49
  of Europe and one other one. So like there is a portion of those
• 1:15:56
  players. We don't know what that number is, but it's not going to
• 1:15:59
  be that much. I would guess if there was, if there were the
• 1:16:03
  number of international vaults as there were US vaults, you might have got closer
• 1:16:08
  to that thousand total number. Maybe, but you're a You're always going to
• 1:16:15
  have more that are going to fall into. But I'm saying you've got to
• 1:16:17
  look at those percentages and see why OP isn't critical as critical as you think
• 1:16:24
  it is, because only a fairly small portion are participating in it. And
• 1:16:34
  maybe this is why we keep making key Forge adventures, and that is why
• 1:16:40
  we keep making key Forge Adventures exactly. I mean, we don't know the
• 1:16:44
  numbers, we know them, we are willing to buy is somewhat proportional to
• 1:16:50
  the amount of awesome op events we can attend. But that doesn't mean it's
• 1:16:57
  true or even the majority of the player base. And yeah, I'm becoming
• 1:17:04
  more and more convinced that although I think I'm well, I used to think,
• 1:17:10
  Now now I'm like I said, I'm becoming convinced that I was fairly
• 1:17:14
  normal in my buying and playing experiencing games like that, I'm way out in
• 1:17:18
  left field. So I just I don't even have faith in my own thoughts
• 1:17:27
  anymore, because, like I think, our is significantly decreasing from CODA to
• 1:17:33
  this point. Yeah, that's that is that happens in all games does significantly
• 1:17:43
  even if we look at from let me ask you this, Do you still
• 1:17:49
  play Magic Chair? Do I? Yeah? No, I gave you my
• 1:17:55
  cards. I know that. But that's my point, Like you're always gonna
• 1:17:59
  have, You're always gonna I have. I don't have because I know because
• 1:18:04
  people leave games like this happens like today. Yes, absolutely, people have
• 1:18:11
  left the game. And I think that's because eventually, in the beginning you
• 1:18:15
  were fed this bill that one deck's all you need. I actually and we've
• 1:18:19
  fed ourselves alive. Well, it's all about player skill, but I would
• 1:18:24
  argue that my amount of decks that I'm picking up has significantly increased, so
• 1:18:29
  you have some sure and so as a result you need to keep that in
• 1:18:33
  mind. We're not just going to you. I think the amount of anywhere
• 1:18:38
  near an average key forards player anymore in interest in the game, wanting to
• 1:18:44
  do things. Whatever you are, you and I have completely you have,
• 1:18:46
  actually, yeah, you have. You have possibly surpassed me in key forde
• 1:18:53
  like high level play commitment. I don't have a kid, or I don't
• 1:19:00
  have as many kids in quite as many family things, so I'm a little
• 1:19:02
  easier to get away than you. But I don't know. I think you
• 1:19:06
  may be putting in more effort on that stuff than I do these days,
• 1:19:12
  and well, any effort is more than none, so yes, but there
• 1:19:17
  is no effort to be put in because we're not doing anything. But I
• 1:19:20
  wonder as just a dumb percentage number of people who would have been considered magic
• 1:19:28
  players to actual number of people playing magic right, like, over the course
• 1:19:35
  of the game, there are a lot of people have come and gone and
• 1:19:39
  do not come back, And I wonder what's that number, because I don't
• 1:19:42
  know that that game has at least a million active players, probably more.
• 1:19:48
  Have they gone through fifteen million players? Fifty million players? And then do
• 1:19:54
  you count dabblers versus players, because there are a ton of peop people who
• 1:20:00
  bought one, two, three, or four key Forge decks said eh,
• 1:20:03
  that's kind of neat, not for me, and we're done. They were
• 1:20:06
  never keyboarded players, right. They checked it out and said this is we
• 1:20:11
  do that with all kinds of games. Right. People do that all the
• 1:20:14
  time. They're not players. They were never going to be a player.
• 1:20:16
  They checked it out. It wasn't their taste. They went on. And
• 1:20:20
  then there is a large number because we all know we all used to have
• 1:20:24
  locals with twenty players at them and now we have locals with four players at
• 1:20:28
  them. So there are definitely people who were showing up consistently pre COVID that
• 1:20:30
  aren't here now. Why they're gone gg got data because they hated that they
• 1:20:36
  had junk decks they couldn't play. Alliance didn't solve that. Alliance did not
• 1:20:44
  bring those players back. Those players are not showing up at our locals anyways.
• 1:20:47
  Maybe other people are having more success, but they're not showing up at
• 1:20:50
  our locals. And maybe that's because we don't say every week we're going to
• 1:20:55
  play Alliance. I don't know, but that hasn't worked. Who knows?
• 1:21:01
  Right Like that, the pre COVID pre ffg players to now is I don't
• 1:21:10
  actually think a number. I don't think it would be the right thing to
• 1:21:16
  chase at this point. Again, we don't make the decisions. We don't
• 1:21:19
  really know how anything's going to turn out. It's just not the route I
• 1:21:24
  would chase, right, I would be trying to find the people who had
• 1:21:27
  bought stuff on the last game Found versus this game found. But even looking
• 1:21:30
  at those numbers, that has changed, that decreased, Yes, but you
• 1:21:35
  are assuming it's because there's no op. We did definitely have aspirational op last
• 1:21:41
  year. If there was a bunch of store op, does it get better?
• 1:21:45
  There are a number of people that that is meaningful too, because we
• 1:21:47
  see those posts two. But that number that I see doesn't feel like it
• 1:21:51
  equates to the other ninety percent that's another and or fifteen percent of that population
• 1:21:58
  where what what is the opinion of the rest And all of our numbers that
• 1:22:03
  we have available to us is based off the number of things we see online,
• 1:22:08
  which means they're already the vocal minority. We we don't have real meaningful
• 1:22:15
  numbers to go from. We have the vocal minority from every game is able
• 1:22:20
  to go hide push often that has not actually representative of the majority. It
• 1:22:29
  may not be represented of the majority, but it does have a way to
• 1:22:31
  be able to push each in every single game that they are interacting with to
• 1:22:38
  an extent. Sure, having content providers and personalities and people in games does
• 1:22:47
  generally provide value, for sure, But that doesn't you know, Like I'm
• 1:22:54
  just saying, like we don't like even when we try to do the thing
• 1:22:59
  where we know we have the most thing and somebody put up a thing on
• 1:23:00
  Facebook and yeah on the Facebook reddit like it was still one hundred and something,
• 1:23:09
  replies like we just have no way to get meaningful numbers from even ten
• 1:23:16
  percent, Like we can't get data from ten percent of the people who back
• 1:23:21
  the first game phone to even start to have a statistically meaningful amount of data
• 1:23:27
  to make decisions on, right, we have data from two hundred of the
• 1:23:31
  most dedicated people we see, and we're trying to make a lot of value
• 1:23:36
  judgments on that, and it isn't It isn't statistical numbers to make value judgments
• 1:23:43
  on. I mean, it's two hundred winers. What you need, what
• 1:23:47
  you need to understand is out of those two hundred hardcore fanatics, when you
• 1:23:53
  start to see fanatics, we're willing to go ahead and go into other games.
• 1:23:57
  That's a really big turning point. And that's what's right now because I
• 1:24:00
  am seeing multiple people who are hardcore, who have invested heavily, were saying,
• 1:24:04
  you know what, I'm going elsewhere? Are there? Is that?
• 1:24:10
  Not? And and definitely a role I have been playing in my online persona
• 1:24:17
  is the extra attention you get for being a clown about leaving a game when
• 1:24:25
  you're upset. There is an amount of that going on, definitely from me
• 1:24:30
  right Like, I'm not anywhere. I'm not worried about you sheep. I'm
• 1:24:34
  worried about the people who frankly are quiet and just telling you, well,
• 1:24:40
  we have no controller that you're not. This is a number that you don't
• 1:24:44
  actually know exists. This is a number you're pretending to have that we don't
• 1:24:47
  have. It's not a pretending if you actually is pretending you don't have a
• 1:24:53
  number, you might have one or two people you know who are probably gonna
• 1:24:58
  check out. I'm to tell you that that number is higher than one or
• 1:25:02
  two from what I am seeing online talking to individuals and being willing to listen
• 1:25:09
  to individuals who are in their community. And maybe that's the difference between me
• 1:25:13
  and GG. They're not I'm not hearing it, but I'm a very vocal
• 1:25:18
  minority of people, and the people are are like me and making it aware
• 1:25:24
  that they are willing to quit this game because this shit sucks. They're doing
• 1:25:30
  it vocally for a reason because when people just as we have a good game
• 1:25:36
  and we want to be able to see the people that purchase the most.
• 1:25:42
  Don't know x Ray No, I mean absolutely x Ray was a big buyer
• 1:25:48
  post pandemic. Is he's I mean, he's bought decks, but he's not
• 1:25:55
  thing like my understanding is I think reap out bought a crack ton of whoa,
• 1:26:00
  but I don't actually know. Yeah, well, all right, well
• 1:26:06
  in the theory, in the theory, is it hyper Is it the two
• 1:26:11
  hundred hyper competitive, hyper focused, hyper dedicated people that are buying more decks
• 1:26:16
  or is it you know it is? Or is it the sixty three hundred
• 1:26:19
  other people who purchased decks. Well, I think it's it's Dan b because
• 1:26:25
  he now has eleven thousand and six hundred decks marked his own the Okay.
• 1:26:30
  I have met dan Bee and talk to some of the other people up there
• 1:26:34
  around him, and my understanding is of the last several thousand, he quit
• 1:26:40
  scanning the decks in unless it looked interesting. So that number is way more
• 1:26:45
  than this, potentially quite a lot different. So he has two hundred and
• 1:26:48
  fifty six winds of exchange decks, okay, which is not a He's no
• 1:26:57
  Vault Masters so went to no Vault Tours. Then my assumption, yeah,
• 1:27:01
  he's Canadian. Like that's my question. Is it the two hundred dedicated people?
• 1:27:09
  Is it the two hundred dedicated people? Did they outweigh the sixty three
• 1:27:13
  hundred casuals? Clearly not. Because I hate to tell you, Gigi,
• 1:27:20
  as much as we want Vault Tours, that we can go hang out with
• 1:27:25
  everybody and hang out with each other, because I think the main thing that
• 1:27:29
  I'm hearing here is we don't want to all lose each other. Well,
• 1:27:33
  it has nothing to it has nothing to do with the game. If we
• 1:27:35
  all agreed that we were going to play game x Y. If we're all
• 1:27:39
  gonna go play Larkana tomorrow, I think we'd all be just as happy.
• 1:27:44
  Now let's just say you were just just play lor Kana is now an algorithmically
• 1:27:50
  generated game. It's the same as Kyfork. But but I think that they
• 1:28:00
  key forde to Disney is that it's just it's it's key Forge Disney themeed.
• 1:28:04
  I'm just saying, if we all started playing the same game tomorrow, you
• 1:28:15
  you are right. There's an amount of dragging onto this game because the friends
• 1:28:19
  I have made in it are valueable to me and I don't want to lose.
• 1:28:28
  But but that's what I'm saying. So that because when it comes Corsy
• 1:28:32
  and Wookie, your three guys, that without key Forge, I may I
• 1:28:36
  would guess within six months we would be down to Merry Christmas and that would
• 1:28:44
  be the end of our meaningful communications. Probably like that that's the truth,
• 1:28:47
  like I or if it's never going to change, Hey sheep, where we're
• 1:28:53
  playing after this game takes a ship and then we're not going to agree because
• 1:28:58
  probably not. But like the fact of the matter is that the sixty three
• 1:29:01
  hundred people are always I'm going to Gander. You can call me crazy.
• 1:29:06
  I have no data to support this. They bought more than the two hundred
• 1:29:12
  dedicated people. Yep, that is how math is going to work here.
• 1:29:16
  I mean in theory, right, No, in practicality, Well, if
• 1:29:21
  your math like to get like, if they all spent ten dollars, right,
• 1:29:26
  that's sixty three thousand, and to get two hundred people to spend sixty
• 1:29:30
  three thousand is a lot. So right, that's three thousand something per person
• 1:29:38
  and the lot. The bummer of it all is that Gigi is always in
• 1:29:45
  forever. Any company is always in forever, going to listen to the money.
• 1:29:51
  Well, the money, the money, right, the money. Well,
• 1:29:56
  any successful company is going to listen to the money. And the problem
• 1:30:01
  is is that these success and they have they don't know about local op.
• 1:30:06
  They have no clue on because we basically didn't have it last year. But
• 1:30:11
  basically the short and skinny is I mean, if you look at it this
• 1:30:15
  way, the Vault Tours were as extreme financial loss because they placed a high
• 1:30:23
  monetary amount for winning. Now, no, no, there is a cost.
• 1:30:30
  There is a cost and everything you do. Yeah, that was that
• 1:30:34
  was fifty thousand dollars, right, like the prizes were just a pre defined
• 1:30:40
  cost. I think what is killing probably the math is when they look at
• 1:30:44
  the operational cost the prize costs for the prize costs was in some extent out
• 1:30:51
  of a different bucket already spent. Like they said, that's fine, that's
• 1:30:56
  gone. It's the operational costs of it. I think it to fly.
• 1:31:01
  But the operational costs would have been covered from those who attended for the most
• 1:31:06
  part. No, yeah, I know that's not true. We ran this
• 1:31:10
  event. We know that's not true. I'm telling you that the numbers that
• 1:31:15
  are there, you would have been a lot closer versus sending another ten grande
• 1:31:18
  out on it. A lot closer. But you can put it to put
• 1:31:23
  it as marketing. You can put it as marketing. They are they Yes,
• 1:31:28
  you have to look at the two numbers. But if I if I
• 1:31:30
  run TV ads saying that key Forge is running a vault to her at my
• 1:31:34
  local blah blah blah, I don't know if that drives anybody to go to
• 1:31:39
  the local blah blah blah. I don't know how many people go as a
• 1:31:44
  result, Like I mean, I don't think you get as many people as
• 1:31:48
  the TV ads going to cost, so the costs outweighs what you're looking to
• 1:31:53
  do. TV ads is U and what they're doing now is is is just
• 1:32:00
  it's it is marketing but well marketing on it cheap and it is what it
• 1:32:05
  is. But you can't marketing is marketing. Marketing doesn't like you can't market
• 1:32:12
  it either hits or it doesn't. Well. Okay, So here's metrics that
• 1:32:16
  they actually are going to be able to develop by the end of this next
• 1:32:18
  year. Probably is they have a clearish set of numbers that said we've had
• 1:32:26
  a game found that this this successful. Reduce it some because it was the
• 1:32:30
  first one. We had a season where we only ran big ass OP and
• 1:32:34
  at the end of that we had another game found and it was half as
• 1:32:39
  big, So that's less exciting. And now potentially the next season we see
• 1:32:46
  a whole bunch of to extend organized local play and probably a smaller I mean,
• 1:32:55
  most of us are expecting a smaller Vault Tour season next year, but
• 1:32:57
  they're we're expecting something like I think that's reasonable, a bigger investment in local
• 1:33:01
  play, a smaller investment in OP, and then they're going to be able
• 1:33:05
  to run because they're gonna do it. They're gonna run another game found and
• 1:33:10
  they're going to be able to say, like which of these seems to be
• 1:33:15
  more successful? And all these numbers are have flaws in collecting them because time
• 1:33:21
  and already loss are things, but you can't have perfect numbers. But they
• 1:33:26
  will all have very clear numbers like we invested money this way and we got
• 1:33:30
  this. We invested money this way and we got that, and that will
• 1:33:32
  help them make a decision for the next season. All we can say is
• 1:33:39
  we think investing in local OP and having a vault tour thing would help build
• 1:33:44
  players. We won't know until it's tried, and we you know, we'll
• 1:33:49
  see what they determine is their course of action because we don't get to decide
• 1:33:55
  it. We're just here to get to live through and it. So those
• 1:34:00
  are real things that can happen, right. They can change how they're running
• 1:34:05
  OP and see if the numbers go up or down. I try to determine,
• 1:34:12
  you know, how to change how they're spending money next year. Yep.
• 1:34:19
  Well, fingers crossed that they figure that out well, and I think
• 1:34:27
  they are going to figure out. And I think the unfortunate part that everyone
• 1:34:30
  has to come to grips with is that local OPI is going to take much
• 1:34:34
  heavier seat than Vault to her play and and that's fine. I mean,
• 1:34:44
  that's how the game started for us. True, Yeah, I think there.
• 1:34:50
  I think there also needs to be some form of thought that eventually that's
• 1:35:00
  what you're going to that's all you're gonna have. Well, you're not getting
• 1:35:02
  that from Sheep because he's already officially announced he's gonna stop thinking fair. But
• 1:35:09
  like, they're not seeing a return on Vault tours. This is why they
• 1:35:14
  didn't want to run them in the first place and try to third party source
• 1:35:17
  it. You didn't set yourself up for success this past year, and so
• 1:35:21
  you can't utilize that data. The end result is not there. All right.
• 1:35:26
  Well, I mean I don't know what another year is going to bring
• 1:35:28
  us, though, I think you're gonna see me very very similar, even
• 1:35:31
  if I release something on February whatever. Let's let's let's just say February fifteenth,
• 1:35:38
  day after Valentine's Day, I release. Here's your Vault tour schedule for
• 1:35:44
  twenty twenty four. Here's your US States, here's your oversea you know,
• 1:35:50
  here's your non us your dates, here's your locations, here's your dates,
• 1:35:54
  here's your location, make your plans. I still think you see roughly this
• 1:36:00
  same amount. Let Jr. Answer first, compared to this year percentage wise?
• 1:36:08
  How many more people what the vaults had had they had like this clean
• 1:36:12
  like this is the exact schedule, everything's open. You know what you can
• 1:36:17
  and can't do, Like how much bigger would the events been? I think
• 1:36:21
  at best five percent. And I think that's a really drastic extension because I
• 1:36:27
  think that I think I think that you're using more, but I think that
• 1:36:32
  we're losing more people because we're waiting in this time period. Who are we
• 1:36:40
  losing? We're frankly right now, I'm right on the cost to go ahead
• 1:36:44
  and say I'm going to play another game. I think a lot of us
• 1:36:47
  are like, if that's where I am man as someone who is competitive and
• 1:36:54
  actively engaged in but you have you are not far further edge of the average
• 1:37:01
  player, then you're you're far from the center line of this game. I
• 1:37:08
  don't I don't think that you just I think that the casual people are like,
• 1:37:12
  hey, fine, I'll go ahead and play if it's there, I'll
• 1:37:14
  play if it's not, but I'm not. If it's a local VT that's
• 1:37:16
  close by, fine, I'll come and play. But if it's not,
• 1:37:19
  okay, who cares? But they're not someone who's engaged, who's spending frankly,
• 1:37:25
  a ton of money on the game Found, but you're not. You're
• 1:37:29
  not. The people who are spending a ton of money on the game Found
• 1:37:31
  aren't even scratching the surface of what they're making from the people who don't don't
• 1:37:36
  care. I'm telling you, Wookie, I don't think that they're making enough
• 1:37:41
  money from what's there. I think so. I think that they have sold
• 1:37:45
  some decks to Frankly, their distributor, and it's sitting there. I think
• 1:37:49
  there are more decks willing to go ahead and be frankly slashed because people aren't
• 1:37:56
  buying them. I think it's the game stores who unfortunately are being stuck with
• 1:38:00
  and that's really sad because the game is amazing. What do you think has
• 1:38:02
  decks? I think that right now they're just sitting. I don't think they
• 1:38:08
  very much. I don't think that we're selling. I think I think that
• 1:38:11
  if you're going ahead and looking at it, that we're not going a hot
• 1:38:14
  in selling decks even from the woe that was there, the whoe what with
• 1:38:19
  people if you're not if you don't have a local group we have in our
• 1:38:24
  store, I mean the store is probably not moving any decks. That is
• 1:38:27
  one hundred percent. If you don't have a local like we have, your
• 1:38:31
  store probably didn't order any decks. Well, that might have got them to
• 1:38:36
  order a box. But I know what you're missing there is that GG has
• 1:38:41
  made it clear they prefer direct to customer sales. They want you to buy
• 1:38:47
  their crap through game Center, or they want you to buy it through the
• 1:38:53
  Game Found. They don't they go stores. They make way more money,
• 1:39:00
  way more money. And that's why internationals are absolutely screwed in this situation because
• 1:39:03
  there's no good way for them to direct profit on the internationals. You have
• 1:39:10
  to use distribution once you leave this country to effectively sell to those and that's
• 1:39:15
  why it's not happening, because it's stupid and expensive and they just get to
• 1:39:19
  make more money by not having game stores. You're like, over eighty percent
• 1:39:25
  of the original Game Found was North America based. Yeah, and then I
• 1:39:31
  don't know what the numbers are. Can probably sit down and do some math,
• 1:39:36
  but We could definitely sit down and do some math. Maybe somebody wants
• 1:39:42
  to do that. How many more boxes do they have to sell through retail?
• 1:39:48
  It's almost double to make the same amount of money because they make nearly
• 1:39:53
  double selling direct, if not more than double selling direct, then they do
• 1:40:00
  selling through distribution like double. It takes a lot more when you're selling direct
• 1:40:08
  or when you're selling through distribution. So you know, like I I fear,
• 1:40:13
  I still fear that that's the route they're going to go. They kind
• 1:40:15
  of keep talking about and sure they threw us about this is this is the
• 1:40:21
  route they're going. Yeah, they could just be pushing more and more towards
• 1:40:26
  directed consumer all the time. I mean, it's number one. They we
• 1:40:30
  know how awesome the experience with an asthma day repers. It's great zillar that
• 1:40:39
  the whole asthma day disaster is well, and that's exactly what it is.
• 1:40:44
  It's a disaster. So I'm going through asthma day and they know it's a
• 1:40:47
  joke. You can't tell me that you have all those educated people in there
• 1:40:53
  who have dealt with the answer. If they're not using asthma day, what's
• 1:40:59
  so saying no, no, no, No, I'm saying, what's the
• 1:41:02
  answer for getting product to stores if they don't use asthma DA exactly what they
• 1:41:08
  did? No, the game the game found with a option you can order
• 1:41:12
  once through Game Found which was like forty total stores or something that was not
• 1:41:17
  a very big number. That's no, that's not real. That's not a
• 1:41:21
  real way to do distribution. Distribution. You either set up direct, which
• 1:41:27
  works just fine when you're selling the average store a case of product, right
• 1:41:33
  like magic distribution, like direct distribution. When you get to the amount that
• 1:41:42
  most stores buy for KeyForge and the scale, like they want to buy one
• 1:41:46
  or two boxes, and direct sales one or two boxes is awful on shipping,
• 1:41:51
  It's just awful on things like most stores just want to buy stuff through
• 1:41:55
  they're one or two distributors they work for. They don't want to have to
• 1:41:58
  have fifty two direct accounts to buy it everything Like direct accounts are great if
• 1:42:02
  your big time, if you're not big time, like that is more work
• 1:42:08
  for a storm manager to deal with. If to order key Forge, I
• 1:42:12
  have to log into another portal and pay a different bill and track it totally
• 1:42:17
  separate from everything, like it's just it is all a ton more work,
• 1:42:20
  which is great. If we're talking big time, we're not talking about okay,
• 1:42:25
  so let's be honest, we're not talking about I'm saying they're still going
• 1:42:31
  to be through a distributor, and all distributors suck. Asthma day it sucks
• 1:42:38
  the most. I don't actually know if they suck the most, because Alliance
• 1:42:42
  sucks. Ac D used to be kind of good, but now they who
• 1:42:48
  wasn't stuck anything and they kind of suck. And there's the weird ones.
• 1:42:54
  There's Southern hobbies to just do. They didn't have anything to do with gaming
• 1:43:00
  products until well one there was so much magic being moved to that they could
• 1:43:04
  get in on that. And then there's a lot of places where for a
• 1:43:08
  while Southern was getting better than some of the other ones. So you just
• 1:43:12
  use them because they sucked less, but now they suck. And Peach Tree
• 1:43:16
  is another one, and I don't actually know if they suck or not,
• 1:43:19
  but we don't use them very much. Like distribution Asthma DAE is garbage,
• 1:43:29
  but it's sort of unnecessary evil in the way things go right now. And
• 1:43:35
  none of them, none of them do a good job of saying like Hey,
• 1:43:39
  we got this new product you want, because every one of them has
• 1:43:44
  an employee who has a lot of stores and a lot of stuff to take
• 1:43:48
  care of, and unless you're a big guy, you don't get that much
• 1:43:51
  personal attention. Well, I know that we have beat this horse many a
• 1:43:58
  times. We've added some new idea in, we've talked for a usual hour
• 1:44:02
  plus well beyond this ninety minutes. But now I want to know. Well,
• 1:44:09
  the short answer that I'm gonna go ahead and say is I love this
• 1:44:12
  community. I miss it dearly. I'm hoping for a Christmas miracle, but
• 1:44:15
  but this again has kind of depressed me from what's there. So I love
• 1:44:21
  you guys. May the forge be with you. I'm saying, yes tonight,
• 1:44:26
  they may not be as far from the best answer they can deliver,
• 1:44:30
  then they then than we really are, right, Like, there isn't an
• 1:44:36
  easy decision in some of these things that just is better. That's what you're
• 1:44:45
  saying, is they're in the best situation we can have. Well, they're
• 1:44:47
  not in the best situation we could have. I'm just the situation what we
• 1:44:53
  have. It hasn't all all been super bad, and like, really,
• 1:44:58
  my biggest problems that I've had is that, well, one we haven't had
• 1:45:00
  local opie, which I think is critical, and then general opie structures have
• 1:45:04
  been not fantastic. But like, we gave them a lot of credit for
• 1:45:12
  the amount of stuff they did suck up and run last year, and they
• 1:45:15
  are making product and they are doing things. Yep, and we hope for
• 1:45:21
  bigger stuff next year. Yeah. Well, hey, I'm looking to set
• 1:45:27
  up a big thing over the holiday at my local store. I'm working on
• 1:45:30
  the details, but I'm gonna post some stuff in the local discords. I'll
• 1:45:33
  probably post in this discord here too, in case anybody's in the Philly area.
• 1:45:39
  Maybe I'm thinking maybe three Deck Anti Survival, every deck, different set,
• 1:45:45
  because my game store has every set in stock, so come to the
• 1:45:50
  games keep in Westchester, Pennsylvania. But yeah, we're gonna do something with
• 1:46:01
  that being sad, we'll see y'all next week. Thank you for listening to
• 1:46:08
  our shortcast. Yes, thank you for listening to our ted talk m