Latest / The Book Deal / How rejections, agents, sleep-deprived writing and persistence led to Shara Curlett's blockbuster new series

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How rejections, agents, sleep-deprived writing and persistence led to Shara Curlett's blockbuster new series · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast
• 0:11
  Madeleine Cleary: where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina Strachan: So no matter what stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Tina Strachan: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Natasha Rai: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Madeleine Cleary: one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Shara Curlett is an absolute superstar, and she joins me today for this chat during a very busy release period full of promotional events for her brand new book, the first in the Protector of Beyond series, and she's just returned back home to New Zealand and straight back into mum life.
• 1:12
  Tina Strachan: But Shara is the queen of productivity and cherishing every moment, and nothing will stop her, not injuries or newborn babies or lack of sleep, and you will hear about that in today's interview.
• 1:24
  Tina Strachan: Shara was destined to become a superstar author, and that is exactly where she is today.
• 1:29
  Tina Strachan: Her first book in the Protector of Beyond series was released earlier this month to massive anticipation and hype, and rightly so because it is a wonderful fantasy series for middle-grade readers and adults, I have to say.
• 1:42
  Tina Strachan: Shara has truly studied her craft, and her publication journey is one of persistence and realism, and she shares all her tips, advice, and learnings for all our listeners today Shara Curlett, thank you so much for taking the time out of your incredibly superstar busy life at the moment to chat to me on the podcast.
• 2:06
  Tina Strachan: How are you going?
• 2:07
  Shara Curlett: Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Tina.
• 2:10
  Shara Curlett: It is so good to be here.
• 2:12
  Shara Curlett: I've just come back from Aussie, as you know, so I'm kind of- Wow adjusting to, uh, mom life again.
• 2:18
  Tina Strachan: Uh-huh.
• 2:18
  Tina Strachan: Oh, it was so nice to have you here and see you in person.
• 2:21
  Tina Strachan: It's been too long.
• 2:22
  Shara Curlett: I know.
• 2:24
  Shara Curlett: And it's so funny because you have friends that are virtual, but it feels like you see each other all the time, and then when you see each other in person, it's just like,"Oh, I just talked to you last week." But actually- Yeah it's over Zoom or something.
• 2:37
  Tina Strachan: It was so incredible to see you here because as we sit here, you are currently at amidst the chaotic and thrilling launch period for what has been dubbed as the next blockbuster fantasy series called Protector of Beyond.
• 2:52
  Tina Strachan: And I can confirm, and I agree with that.
• 2:55
  Tina Strachan: I...
• 2:55
  Tina Strachan: Having read the first book myself, it is an incredible series.
• 2:58
  Tina Strachan: and I'm sure you're a little bit weary, but hopefully still running high on the adrenaline of it all.
• 3:04
  Tina Strachan: Now for anyone who has been under a rock and has not heard of Protector of Beyond series, can you tell us a little bit about the series?
• 3:15
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, sure.
• 3:16
  Shara Curlett: So Protector of Beyond is about 12-year-old Aldetris who produces a spark like no other and is transported to another realm where she will match with a magical creature, earn powers, and compete in trials for the opportunity to train at the Academy of Protectors.
• 3:33
  Shara Curlett: Once there, she'll learn to defend the realms against an unknown enemy, but first she has to survive the trials because something is out to get her, and she doesn't quite know why.
• 3:43
  Shara Curlett: So it is just a fast-paced action fantasy adventure.
• 3:48
  Shara Curlett: Um, and you know, like, when I was writing it, I just, I imagined Bastian under the blanket in The NeverEnding Story, just unable to pull himself away because he just had to keep turning the page, and that's exactly what I, what I wanted to create.
• 4:04
  Shara Curlett: Like, just this ex- experience.
• 4:06
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's an incredible story because that, I think it reads like that too.
• 4:11
  Tina Strachan: It really is non-stop but perfectly paced, and just it has everything in it, which is incredible.
• 4:17
  Tina Strachan: I especially love the Gards, uh, which are like the houses.
• 4:21
  Shara Curlett: Yes
• 4:22
  Tina Strachan: Um, and the Fiercers, which are like mythical animal creatures that belong to the houses, and there's so much creativity.
• 4:29
  Tina Strachan: And it must have been such a fun series to create.
• 4:32
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell us a little bit about how you came up with the concept for the guards and the Fiercers?
• 4:37
  Tina Strachan: And, um, you originally drew the symbols for them, didn't you?
• 4:41
  Shara Curlett: Oh, I, I had the descriptions- Mm-hmm and I had a few kind of like ideas and concepts, but the, the, the words came first, and then the illustrator kind of...
• 4:52
  Shara Curlett: Jennifer Beam is the illustrator, and she's amazing, and she just brought them to life.
• 4:56
  Shara Curlett: And we'd see the roughs, and I'd, I'd provi- provide some p- I'd provide some feedback, and would tweak it here and there until it became what I kind of imagined in my head.
• 5:08
  Shara Curlett: It was so fun to just kind of create this world.
• 5:11
  Shara Curlett: I...
• 5:12
  Shara Curlett: It all started with just a few simple ideas.
• 5:15
  Shara Curlett: The idea of the spark has been with me for a really, really long time, and I've shared this on other podcasts how I went through a really difficult year, and at the end of the year I'd written two 90,000-word novels, and it just...
• 5:27
  Shara Curlett: A spark ignited in me, and it was just the idea that, like, this is what I was always meant to do with my life.
• 5:35
  Shara Curlett: And from that moment on, that word just stuck with me until I was trying to decide what to write next, and I was thinking,"I really wanna write something around the idea of the spark." And I had a few other ideas that I...
• 5:49
  Shara Curlett: that were kind of like mulling around in my head, and I was trying to figure out how to put them together, and the opening scene just came to me, along with the words,"If you spark, you fight." And it was just like, honestly, it was just a flood from there.
• 6:04
  Shara Curlett: And I know you've had this as well.
• 6:05
  Shara Curlett: Like, you just, you get into this whole, whoa, is this...
• 6:09
  Shara Curlett: It feels like this is channeling through me, rather than like coming out of my brain.
• 6:13
  Shara Curlett: It, it's wild.
• 6:15
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 6:16
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 6:16
  Tina Strachan: I love that feeling when it does happen.
• 6:18
  Tina Strachan: But it's proved very successful, and I love that tagline of"If you spark, you fight." It just, it's just very exciting and very appealing.
• 6:27
  Tina Strachan: And it reminds me, um...
• 6:29
  Tina Strachan: When I read it, I got, uh, some Hunger Games vibes about it.
• 6:33
  Tina Strachan: I just...
• 6:33
  Tina Strachan: Uh, and I love Hunger Games, so that was, uh, really appealing to me.
• 6:36
  Tina Strachan: But The Protector of Beyond's been compared to Nevermoor, Percy Jackson, and Wings of Fire, and, um, j- if that's not gonna reel in the middle-grade readers, I just don't know what is.
• 6:48
  Tina Strachan: But those are pretty big names and some huge comparisons.
• 6:52
  Tina Strachan: How does that make you feel?
• 6:55
  Shara Curlett: Um, it's, it's kind of an honor, and also I feel like the- The kind of grouping of all of those different things is the vibe of the book.
• 7:07
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 7:07
  Shara Curlett: So it's kind of described as if you love those, then you'll love this.
• 7:13
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 7:13
  Shara Curlett: But this is different to those in a way.
• 7:15
  Shara Curlett: So yeah, it's um, it's very, very cool that, you know, these big names that everyone recognizes are being kind of likened to my book.
• 7:25
  Shara Curlett: It's very special.
• 7:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 7:27
  Tina Strachan: And that's the thing with comp titles, isn't it, is it's not meant to be this is It's got this section or like it's got the witches from here, or it's got, you know, um, this particular gameplay from here.
• 7:41
  Tina Strachan: It is, it's a c- It is about a vibe, isn't it?
• 7:44
  Tina Strachan: And so- Yeah it's And when you hear Nevermoor, Percy Jackson, Wings is f- Wings of Fire, they're really good comp titles because you do just get that vibe, and you know.
• 7:53
  Tina Strachan: I mean, it could have magic.
• 7:55
  Tina Strachan: It could have animals.
• 7:56
  Tina Strachan: It could have, you know, dragons and you know, sword fighting, things like that.
• 8:01
  Tina Strachan: You don't know, but it doesn't matter because it's just that vibe and, you know, I really like those books so I'm gonna like this book, so.
• 8:07
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 8:08
  Tina Strachan: So they're some really good comp titles,'cause comp titles are hard to come up with, aren't they?
• 8:12
  Shara Curlett: They are, and you know, it's one of those things, I think I've heard you talk about it before.
• 8:16
  Shara Curlett: Sometimes it's even just the vibe of a, like of a person or the vibe of a movie.
• 8:22
  Shara Curlett: I think it's just- Mm communicating if someone's gonna read this book, this is the general experience they're gonna get.
• 8:28
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 8:29
  Tina Strachan: So you've We were just talking before about you've had a very busy couple of weeks, Char, or a couple of months really.
• 8:35
  Tina Strachan: It's been about a month-ish now since the book has come out.
• 8:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell us what you've been up to and what's been keeping you so busy?
• 8:42
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause it's been a pretty big month.
• 8:44
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 8:45
  Shara Curlett: The first week it came out I went to visit Penguin New Zealand headquarters, and they'd just moved, um, offices.
• 8:51
  Shara Curlett: So they're in this beautiful s- like airy, spacious office where they have beautiful views around Takapuna in Auckland, New Zealand.
• 9:00
  Shara Curlett: And then I went and signed some books at some bookstores.
• 9:04
  Shara Curlett: Um, Workholes has come on board in a really big way, which is amazing, and, uh, they have taken on a lot of the m- merch that comes with it.
• 9:15
  Shara Curlett: So there are these amazing dump bins, which I still don't understand why they're called that- Absolutely'cause they're not dump bins.
• 9:22
  Shara Curlett: They are these incredible stands.
• 9:25
  Shara Curlett: And yeah, it's featured on the front tables and all that kind of thing.
• 9:29
  Shara Curlett: So that's been really special.
• 9:32
  Shara Curlett: And then I flew over to Aussie and I had The day I flew in was the launch at Where The Wild Things Are, where I saw you- and met your beautiful son.
• 9:42
  Shara Curlett: And from there it was a bit of a whirlwind.
• 9:45
  Shara Curlett: So we teamed up with Where The Wild Things Are, and Jen basically took us round to do a bunch of school visits and that was just so much fun.
• 9:56
  Shara Curlett: I had a presentation that I thought would go well, but in person it was just amazing.
• 10:03
  Shara Curlett: Mm.
• 10:03
  Shara Curlett: Like, every single school w- you know, they're slightly different in, in whatever unique way to that school, but all the kids responded no matter the age.
• 10:11
  Shara Curlett: And yeah, it was super fun.
• 10:14
  Shara Curlett: It was definitely one of the many, many highlights.
• 10:17
  Shara Curlett: And then I went to QBD headquarters where I met Dion, the, The children's book buyer.
• 10:26
  Shara Curlett: And I walked into this room, and it was a sea of Protector books on the table.
• 10:33
  Shara Curlett: It was just incredible, and they had a big thing on the TV with the cover.
• 10:38
  Shara Curlett: And honestly, it brought tears to my eyes.
• 10:42
  Shara Curlett: Oh, hey.
• 10:42
  Shara Curlett: It was like one of those moments where you're just like, Oh, I just need to take this in."
• 10:48
  Tina Strachan: It's giving me goosebumps.
• 10:48
  Tina Strachan: It's giving me goosebumps because I, I know how that's just like the dream, isn't it?
• 10:52
  Shara Curlett: Oh, yeah.
• 10:53
  Shara Curlett: And QBD have been so amazing, and Dion shared how much he loved the book- Mm which was incredible.
• 11:01
  Shara Curlett: And so while I was signing the books I had Maddie, my publicist, to the left, and I had Dion to my right, and we're doing this kind of like passing, um, over because, uh, one thing with Protector, the first lot of pages, the intro pages, are actually black, which is very cool.
• 11:18
  Shara Curlett: It's so different.
• 11:19
  Shara Curlett: And so I use a silver pen for my signings.
• 11:22
  Shara Curlett: So there's a bit of drying involved at the end.
• 11:25
  Tina Strachan: A bit of drying time.
• 11:26
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Shara Curlett: But the entire time I was signing all these books, they were having these conversations across me around the characters and what they think will happen.
• 11:36
  Shara Curlett: And it was just like they were talking about real people, and it was s- it made it that much more- Mm-hmm special.
• 11:43
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, just hearing these two adults talk about my children's book like they are fully invested in the characters, it was Yeah.
• 11:51
  Shara Curlett: I just It's something I'll never forget, ever.
• 11:54
  Shara Curlett: And then from there, we flew to Sydney.
• 11:59
  Shara Curlett: We did a day of book signings, and yeah, it was just fantastic.
• 12:04
  Shara Curlett: And then on the Saturday, we launched Protector in Sydney at Kinokuniya Sydney with Belinda Merrill.
• 12:11
  Shara Curlett: So she is an incredible MC.
• 12:15
  Shara Curlett: She She's just so warm, and she has an incredible kind of array of books behind her.
• 12:21
  Shara Curlett: So it was very special meeting her for the first time and, um, seeing everyone come along to that.
• 12:27
  Shara Curlett: And then I was back in New Zealand.
• 12:28
  Shara Curlett: And
• 12:29
  Tina Strachan: nice.
• 12:30
  Tina Strachan: And
• 12:30
  Shara Curlett: do you know what?
• 12:31
  Shara Curlett: Do you know what I did do, is I knew it would be quite full on, and my kids are very They're all about Mom.
• 12:38
  Shara Curlett: Uh, and so what my husband and I agreed was that I would just, um, stay in a hotel the night before in Auckland before I came home.
• 12:45
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 12:46
  Shara Curlett: And it was like the best decision I could have made, because by the time I got home, I was recharged again- Mm-hmm and ready.
• 12:55
  Shara Curlett: I'd had a good night's sleep.
• 12:56
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Shara Curlett: And I was, like, fully, fully there for them.
• 13:00
  Shara Curlett: So I think that was just such a crucial part of coming back well.
• 13:04
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 13:06
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 13:06
  Tina Strachan: No, that sounds like an amazing idea.
• 13:08
  Tina Strachan: It's important to take all that in, because you know, it's, it's that juggle, isn't it, of your superstar lifestyle at the moment with Protector of Beyond coming out, and then reality is you've gotta go home and make brekkie for the kids and- Yes.
• 13:21
  Tina Strachan: and be there f- and that, you know, it doesn't stop, does it?
• 13:23
  Tina Strachan: You can't just take a break and Yeah, so- Yeah yes, that sounds like a perfect idea.
• 13:28
  Tina Strachan: Very clever to come up with that.
• 13:29
  Tina Strachan: But can I just go back quickly to where you were talking about the school visits and presentations and how well they went.
• 13:36
  Tina Strachan: Can I ask what you thought was the key to making everything go really well with your school presentations?
• 13:43
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause that's the dream also, is to When you do present to schools, e- especially when you've come up with a whole new presentation,'cause this would have been new for you because you haven't done that yet with the books.
• 13:53
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, come out with a new presentation and sort of trialing it out for the first time, uh, you want it to go well.
• 13:58
  Tina Strachan: So what do you think were some tips around making that go so well?
• 14:02
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 14:03
  Shara Curlett: Well, I often try to make things about other people.
• 14:07
  Shara Curlett: So if I'm talking to a bunch of f- students I'm looking at how do I connect with them, first and foremost, and then how do I make it about them?
• 14:17
  Shara Curlett: So my presentation is very There's a very small part about me, and it's pretty much just clicking through slides.
• 14:24
  Shara Curlett: I've got my pets, and then I've got some drawings I've done.
• 14:27
  Shara Curlett: And I'm like,"That's all you need to know.
• 14:30
  Shara Curlett: And I wrote this book." And then I throw it back to the kids, and I s- I have a prop that I take with me everywhere to my school visits, and every school has loved Like, the kids have just loved it, and it's the Chattermax from Bluey.
• 14:44
  Shara Curlett: It's just a toy Chattermax.
• 14:46
  Shara Curlett: And basically I'll just thr-'cause I'm, I've got a sports background, right?
• 14:49
  Shara Curlett: I love- sports.
• 14:52
  Shara Curlett: And I think often that's where I connect with everyone because I've got all these creative elements, but I also have the sports side.
• 15:00
  Shara Curlett: And so the first thing I'll do is throw Chattermax into the, into the kids and I'll just be like,"I wanna hear about what you love to do." And from there, the, it just develops and the kids I think from that moment I have the kids, and I think it's about capturing them early before they kind of You kind of lose their interest,'cause you can talk at them and they're just sitting there.
• 15:23
  Shara Curlett: But if you make it about them, then they're fully into it.
• 15:25
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 15:26
  Shara Curlett: And then as, as it talks I kind of drop a few more things in.
• 15:30
  Shara Curlett: But at the end what went really, really well is because like we mentioned before, there are the gu- the four guards, and they were naturally, they naturally came from the four ferces.
• 15:42
  Shara Curlett: So they are like houses.
• 15:44
  Shara Curlett: And we do this guard sorting activity, and I have a background in business and I've done a lot of personal development, and so I brought all of the kind of personality side into it, and I very carefully created these four guards and the personalities that might go into those guards in a way that would be fully inclusive and every kid could see themselves there.
• 16:11
  Shara Curlett: Every kid could find their own guard.
• 16:13
  Shara Curlett: And there's no kind of bad guard, it's just every one of them is, is, would be, like, amazing.
• 16:21
  Shara Curlett: And by the end, when we do this kind of guard sorting activity and at the very end I reveal which guard these kids are in, and it was quite incredible.
• 16:31
  Shara Curlett: Throughout all the schools that we did there was, like, an even distribution.
• 16:35
  Shara Curlett: Because it's not like an A, B, C, D type.
• 16:37
  Shara Curlett: I mixed them up very carefully.
• 16:39
  Shara Curlett: And so by the end of it, when I was revealing the guards, they were so fully invested.
• 16:46
  Shara Curlett: I'd make a big deal about it because I've got a background in DJ-ing, so I'm used to hyping up a crowd.
• 16:52
  Shara Curlett: And they were just fully in it.
• 16:55
  Shara Curlett: And then at the end, I do questions.
• 16:57
  Shara Curlett: So really, I think the, the tip is I make it about them mostly.
• 17:02
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 17:03
  Tina Strachan: And then you know that they're going to just w- be dying to get their hands on the books now to find out, and to read about, what guards they're in.
• 17:10
  Tina Strachan: That's incredible.
• 17:11
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 17:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, and okay, so I'll make myself a note to bring DJ skills into school talks.
• 17:19
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's so cool.
• 17:20
  Tina Strachan: Uh, also Chattermax, I have seen Bluey and Chattermax.
• 17:23
  Tina Strachan: Chattermax isn't on like he is in Bluey, is he?
• 17:25
  Tina Strachan: He's not coming around just- No just chatting away.
• 17:28
  Tina Strachan: Chattermax,
• 17:28
  Shara Curlett: yeah, he's just a soft toy.
• 17:29
  Shara Curlett: Okay.
• 17:29
  Shara Curlett: That
• 17:30
  Tina Strachan: does
• 17:30
  Shara Curlett: not make noise
• 17:31
  Tina Strachan: thankfully.
• 17:32
  Tina Strachan: Okay, good,'cause that, that's probably my least favorite episode of Bluey.
• 17:35
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 17:36
  Tina Strachan: Oh, Shara, such an incredible experience that you're going through now.
• 17:39
  Tina Strachan: Like we said before, it's just like the dream, isn't it?
• 17:42
  Tina Strachan: But it's not that you are an overnight success, is it?
• 17:46
  Tina Strachan: This isn't your first book, and this isn't the first thing you've ever written.
• 17:50
  Tina Strachan: Um, you've Or, you know, you've been illustrating for a long time as well, and enjoying that.
• 17:55
  Tina Strachan: Can you...
• 17:55
  Tina Strachan: And we've had you on the podcast before, last year when you were chatting about Welcome to Miracle, which was your...
• 18:00
  Tina Strachan: actually your debut book that came out.
• 18:03
  Tina Strachan: Can you...
• 18:04
  Tina Strachan: But can you still just tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got here?
• 18:08
  Tina Strachan: Because it doesn't just happen overnight, does it?
• 18:10
  Tina Strachan: And it doesn't happen easily.
• 18:12
  Tina Strachan: And, um, we love a good publication journey on this podcast.
• 18:16
  Tina Strachan: So, uh, can you just give us...
• 18:18
  Tina Strachan: Maybe take us all the way back, just a little bit about Miracle,'cause if r- anybody wants to hear the full story of the you know, the journey towards Welcome to Miracle, that's in another podcast episode from last year.
• 18:27
  Tina Strachan: But, uh, just touching on that a little bit for those who haven't listened to that episode.
• 18:31
  Tina Strachan: And then what happened after Miracle to get from there to here, now with Protector of Beyond?
• 18:38
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 18:39
  Shara Curlett: Well, I started As I said, I started seriously in 2016.
• 18:43
  Shara Curlett: And I wrote a story that I actually took a lot of time with.
• 18:49
  Shara Curlett: So I had written it as That was one of the novels that I wrote that ended up 90,000 words.
• 18:55
  Shara Curlett: And then I basically turned it into a middle grade and realized that's kind of my, my lane.
• 19:01
  Shara Curlett: And took about two to three years.
• 19:05
  Shara Curlett: I'd done a f- few courses, and I'd actually engaged both a professional beta reader who gave me feedback, and then I engaged a- an editor.
• 19:14
  Shara Curlett: And I basically I, but I wanted to do it in a smart way.
• 19:16
  Shara Curlett: So I said to her,"Can you edit it one chapter at, at a time so I can learn from that?" And then each chapter I improved and improved until the final chapter she edited there was hardly anything to do because I'd gone and tweaked it.
• 19:31
  Shara Curlett: So I kind of like to do things smart.
• 19:33
  Shara Curlett: And I just i'm a big believer that, like, it's important to constantly learn and, and just never think you're at the right level.
• 19:42
  Shara Curlett: Like, there's always room to learn and grow.
• 19:45
  Shara Curlett: And so I was continually doing workshops and courses, and I At one point I decided I wanted to illustrate, and so I was focusing quite a lot on that.
• 19:55
  Shara Curlett: And I realized it was taking me Because it's so time-consuming, it was taking me away from my core passion of writing.
• 20:02
  Shara Curlett: And when I made And I'd had some publisher interest but when I decided that I wanted to focus on the writing is when I wrote Mir- Welcome to Miracle.
• 20:13
  Shara Curlett: And that was i've probably got about 10 middle grade manuscripts in my bottom drawer.
• 20:19
  Shara Curlett: But that was the first one that I think I truly understood voice, and it just came out and then when that was picked up, it was just the best feeling, as I shared on the podcast last year.
• 20:30
  Shara Curlett: And then you move into, like, the second book, right?
• 20:32
  Shara Curlett: What are you gonna write next?
• 20:33
  Shara Curlett: Like, I was quite hopeful that one would become a series.
• 20:36
  Shara Curlett: It's not to say it won't.
• 20:37
  Shara Curlett: There's still potential for that.
• 20:39
  Shara Curlett: So with my second book, I, I was, I was sure that I wanted to get an agent for it.
• 20:46
  Shara Curlett: And so I pitched it to a few agents got a rejection from a couple, and then one of them who asked for the full was Gemma Cooper.
• 20:55
  Shara Curlett: Uh, and she's a well-known, uh, UK agent.
• 20:58
  Shara Curlett: She has some incredible authors to her agency.
• 21:02
  Shara Curlett: And she, I think she quite liked how it was quite quirky and just so different.
• 21:08
  Shara Curlett: Like this, this was nothing like Miracle.
• 21:11
  Shara Curlett: It was something that had just again, come out of nowhere.
• 21:14
  Shara Curlett: Uh, it ended up being three different voices, and there was a narrator as well.
• 21:19
  Shara Curlett: So it was just really weird and quirky.
• 21:21
  Shara Curlett: But I still love it.
• 21:23
  Shara Curlett: And she asked for the full, and then she took a while to get back to me, and then she basically came back saying I'm still looking at this.
• 21:31
  Shara Curlett: I just I'll get back to you soon." And then ultimately it was a rejection, but she did say that it took her quite a while to decide.
• 21:39
  Shara Curlett: She was she used the w- the term,"I was dithering over it a lot." Oh.
• 21:43
  Shara Curlett: And, and that to me, I took that as a win.
• 21:45
  Shara Curlett: I've always found- Oh,
• 21:46
  Tina Strachan: it is such a win, isn't it?
• 21:48
  Tina Strachan: But it's- Yeah the f- the, the kind of like, not frustration, but the,"Oh, I was so close," that feeling- Yeah is, yeah.
• 21:56
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 21:56
  Tina Strachan: But it's- It's- it's an amazing it's amazing feedback and an indicator of your writing, isn't it?
• 22:02
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Shara Curlett: And I just, I looked at it like,"Okay, this isn't quite right.
• 22:07
  Shara Curlett: It's obviously not landing, so what do I need to do to make it better?" And she gave me some feedback and offered a re- rework and resubmit.
• 22:15
  Shara Curlett: And I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do, and so I put that in the drawer rather than do anything else with it.
• 22:20
  Shara Curlett: I just wanted some space from it.
• 22:22
  Shara Curlett: And that's when I wrote Protector.
• 22:23
  Shara Curlett: So Protector is actually I think with Protector, I just, you know, I just wanted to write something people couldn't say no to.
• 22:32
  Shara Curlett: I wanted to take all my best ideas.
• 22:35
  Shara Curlett: I wanted to throw everything at it.
• 22:37
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, and so while I was kind of submitting that second manuscript, I was also doing Karen Comer's First Novel Writing course.
• 22:48
  Shara Curlett: And this is something that I haven't actually thought of until just recently, um And it's something that I haven't actually spoken before because I didn't even remember.
• 22:59
  Shara Curlett: But once I was going through my emails and when I was sending What Where and actually trying to figure things out, um, because, you know, I'm a sleep-deprived mom so my memory is pretty much shot.
• 23:10
  Shara Curlett: And I realized that I was doing this course, and the day I finished was when I returned to Protector,'cause I'd already nutted out a few ideas for it, and that's...
• 23:21
  Shara Curlett: I think that's when it actually flowed and, and flowed in the voice, in a voice that I hadn't actually done before.
• 23:28
  Shara Curlett: Um, Karen's course was amazing.
• 23:30
  Shara Curlett: It's like the best course I've, I've actually ever done.
• 23:33
  Shara Curlett: I loved it.
• 23:34
  Shara Curlett: I highly recommend it to anyone who's just interested in kind of broadening their skills.
• 23:39
  Shara Curlett: And I did work on a YA n- novel during that time.
• 23:43
  Shara Curlett: It was a middle gra- uh, a YA novel that I was turning into a verse novel, and I really enjoyed that.
• 23:51
  Shara Curlett: And it may never go anywhere, but what I learned and the skills, the writing skills that I learned throughout that course I think fed directly into the voice of Protector, and that's what made it so different and so unique.
• 24:05
  Shara Curlett: And there's a particular scene in Protector that's, uh, it's now chapter 14 but it was actually earlier, um, that, like, is directly from the skills that I learned from that verse novel writing course.
• 24:18
  Shara Curlett: So when readers get to the chapter 14, they'll realize it's, it's quite different and it is very dreamlike, and that is from my, my course that I did.
• 24:30
  Shara Curlett: And so I'm just such a believer of actually constantly improving skills and learning and never thinking...
• 24:40
  Shara Curlett: Like, nothing is ever wasted, so even if that verse novel I did- didn't...
• 24:45
  Shara Curlett: Like, even if I never finish it, what I gained from that course has already strengthened my writing.
• 24:52
  Tina Strachan: I love the idea of constantly learning, and there are so many incredible courses and things out there, isn't there?
• 24:57
  Tina Strachan: And, and you're right, none of it's wasted.
• 24:59
  Tina Strachan: But, um, when you're talking, what I hear the, the most from you is that you're writing a lot.
• 25:04
  Tina Strachan: You are doing a lot of writing.
• 25:06
  Tina Strachan: You're not just doing a course but not working on a, on an actual novel.
• 25:10
  Tina Strachan: You're not just reading a book about writing but not actually applying it.
• 25:13
  Tina Strachan: You're not just listening to the podcast and doing...
• 25:15
  Tina Strachan: I think some, authors can sort of get a bit tied up in the periphery and the stuff around it of like doing the courses and, you even doing some social media and all that other stuff.
• 25:25
  Tina Strachan: But you're still getting words down in this time, aren't you?
• 25:28
  Tina Strachan: You're still actually working on progressing something, and, um, I think that's- That's really important and probably what makes that difference between, you know, finishing a novel for starters and then having something to put out there,'cause all of that is practice as well, isn't it?
• 25:44
  Tina Strachan: It's honing that skill.
• 25:45
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:46
  Shara Curlett: And the writing is the enjoyable part for me.
• 25:49
  Shara Curlett: Like, I also love editing, so I'm not sure if I'm a rare one in that respect.
• 25:54
  Shara Curlett: But, you know, the writing is That's the part that I love, and so I think that's why it's so easy for me to Like, if one If I get a couple of rejections, I'm just gonna write something better, because that's the part that I enjoy.
• 26:09
  Shara Curlett: Like, I wanna write something that I, I love to write.
• 26:13
  Shara Curlett: Um, but also- I just want to enjoy the process of the writing.
• 26:19
  Shara Curlett: I don't really enjoy all the submission side and all that kind of thing.
• 26:22
  Shara Curlett: I'm like, maybe this one isn't good enough, so I'm just gonna try something new because that's the part that I love.
• 26:28
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 26:30
  Tina Strachan: That's the fun part.
• 26:30
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 26:31
  Tina Strachan: So tell us how you get all that writing in though, Shara.
• 26:34
  Tina Strachan: You are a mum, and- you've got a big series that you've got to deliver on now.
• 26:38
  Tina Strachan: How are you fitting it all in?
• 26:41
  Shara Curlett: I have school days.
• 26:43
  Shara Curlett: And so when I was...
• 26:46
  Shara Curlett: I used to own a business, and then, uh, when I was heavily pregnant with my first child, I sold that business.
• 26:54
  Shara Curlett: Um, and we did really well out of it, so that kind of gave us a, a few years.
• 26:58
  Shara Curlett: And as a buffer,'cause my husband's job was going from strength to strength, and it was good because I earned myself an injury the next year, not long after my daughter was born.
• 27:09
  Shara Curlett: And then when my son was born, uh, we, we made the dec- decision that I'd be a stay-at-home mom because we felt like we wanted to be there and present with our kids.
• 27:20
  Shara Curlett: And, um, my husband's job went from strength to, to strength, as I said, and I had the buffer of the money.
• 27:27
  Shara Curlett: So it was a...
• 27:28
  Shara Curlett: We were in a very fortunate position that w- I could do that.
• 27:31
  Shara Curlett: Um, and then when my son was born, he had, uh, laryngomalacia, which was a floppy larynx, and he basically had to sleep upright in my arms.
• 27:39
  Shara Curlett: And I've shared this before, but basically what that meant was I, I don't remember sleeping that first year.
• 27:48
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I wrote on my phone to get all the words out, and I got the most words out, kind of, that year as I'd ever done, um, while he was sleeping in my arms because, you know, I have to be safe and I can't fall asleep.
• 28:02
  Shara Curlett: Co-sleeping is tricky and...
• 28:04
  Shara Curlett: It was tricky, but it kept me sane.
• 28:07
  Shara Curlett: Like, the writing is w- is what got me through it and, and seeing his little face, like, his little eyes when he looked up at me.
• 28:14
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I actually had created a habit of writing on my phone, and so I continued that for quite a few years, and it was all writing in the gaps.
• 28:25
  Shara Curlett: So after the kids were asleep, I would write on my phone, get a few chapters out.
• 28:30
  Shara Curlett: Um, I would write first thing in the morning before they woke up, but I'd write on my phone with a coffee.
• 28:35
  Shara Curlett: Um, and it isn't, it w- Even with Miracle, I wrote a lot of that on my phone, like pretty much the whole book, uh, which is wild to look back now, and I certainly don't do that now.
• 28:50
  Shara Curlett: I used Scrivener on my phone, so it helped made it easier to kind of navigate between chapters.
• 28:55
  Shara Curlett: Um, but now my children are at school, and I treat it like a full-time job.
• 29:00
  Shara Curlett: So while they're at school, I squeeze everything into the, the day, and when they're home, I'm a mum.
• 29:08
  Shara Curlett: So, um, I think it's always about finding that balance and trying to Maximize the time.
• 29:17
  Shara Curlett: So when I'm writing, I'll always leave it at a spot where I can go back to where I'm, I'm, like, excited to go back to it.
• 29:24
  Shara Curlett: So it's, it's quite a discipline to stop it when you're,"Oh, I just wanna keep writing," but then my mind will continue.
• 29:30
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 29:31
  Shara Curlett: And I actually figure, figured out that I do a lot of writing in my mind, and so that while I'm in the gaps, uh, if I'm going for a walk or whatever, I'll just think, and that helps me to hit the ground running when I'm back at my desk and get the words out, and I write very, very fast.
• 29:48
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 29:48
  Shara Curlett: So yeah.
• 29:50
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 29:51
  Tina Strachan: You were saying about you're writing in your mind, and you've probably experienced this too,'cause like you said, you're trying to squeeze the writing into any little spot that you have.
• 29:59
  Tina Strachan: And I drove to school to pick up the kids, and because there's 15 minutes till the bell goes and I'm stuck in my car and I bring my laptop, and so you're writing and writing, and I set an alarm on my phone so I can maximize that time.
• 30:11
  Tina Strachan: Otherwise, I'll be constantly going like,"Oh, I have to go now, I have to go now." So I set my alarm, I know I've got 15 minutes.
• 30:17
  Tina Strachan: When it goes off, that's when I walk up and meet them.
• 30:19
  Tina Strachan: So I'm in there just writing, writing, writing, and then the alarm goes and it's like,"Oh, God." Okay, same thing as you, I've, I do that and I put caps lock on so I know that it's different from the rest, and I just bust out, like, in really terrible writing exactly where I was going with that and what I'm gonna do next to the point where I can go like,"Okay, good.
• 30:35
  Tina Strachan: Okay, you got that out," so I don't lose that train of thought.
• 30:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Tina Strachan: And then I'll be walking up to pick up the kids, and I'm walking up and I'm prob- I just think people probably just thought I was the ru- the rudest, most snobby person.
• 30:49
  Tina Strachan: That was just...
• 30:50
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause but in my head it just, it, it felt like stepping out into this whole different strange world and I just feel like saying,"I'm sorry, I can't have this conversation with you because I literally five minutes ago was in the middle of some, like, magical, mystical sort of, um, battle in my car writing these words, and now I'm here and you're asking me about tuckshop." And I just, I just...
• 31:13
  Tina Strachan: It was just that you really have to do that compartmentalization, don't you?
• 31:17
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Shara Curlett: And it takes a lot of practice and skill, I think- Yeah to just shut, shut that off when you need to.
• 31:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 31:24
  Shara Curlett: Um, but allow it to- kind of flow when you can.
• 31:28
  Shara Curlett: It, it is, yeah, c- compartmentalizing is a very good word for it.
• 31:34
  Shara Curlett: And then your subconscious kind of ticks away in the background, and then something pops into your head at such a random time, and you're like,"Oh my gosh, I have to get this down on a note." So my notes app on my phone is so ridiculous.
• 31:47
  Shara Curlett: It's jam-packed with all these different things.
• 31:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:50
  Shara Curlett: If I have a story idea, I'll th- throw it into Scrivener to get it out of my head.
• 31:55
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Shara Curlett: Um, yeah, just so I can kind of focus.
• 31:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:59
  Tina Strachan: I've learnt now, when I have a hair appointment or a beauty appointment or something, and you know how they like take you to the basin and you have that time where you're sort of sitting there while they're washing your hair.
• 32:07
  Tina Strachan: It's like I've had The amount of times I've had to say,"Sorry, can you please pop over and get my phone for me because I have just had this idea- and I must quickly write it down in my phone'cause I can't sit here for 20 minutes with- out writing it down." Uh, because I think you're stuck, aren't you, in, in those times.
• 32:21
  Tina Strachan: And the moral of that story is, um, there is no perfect time to write.
• 32:25
  Tina Strachan: There doesn't have to be perfect circumstances, I think.
• 32:28
  Tina Strachan: You know, a lot of people think,"Oh, I can't do it'cause I've only got 15 minutes, I've only got 20 minutes, I've only got half an hour.
• 32:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, I don't have the space to write, I don't have the place to write.
• 32:37
  Tina Strachan: I don't have a computer." We've just, you've just proven that you don't need that.
• 32:40
  Tina Strachan: I don't know where to start.
• 32:42
  Tina Strachan: I must have a coffee first, and all those sorts of things.
• 32:44
  Tina Strachan: It's, um, if you're writing, waiting for the right time and place and space, it's never going to happen, so you've just gotta make it work wherever you can.
• 32:53
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:55
  Shara Curlett: And I think also the I've kind of trained myself to be able to write anywhere, any place, as short or as long as I have available.
• 33:07
  Shara Curlett: I think that's There are some things that you train yourself into, and I think you can train yourself into bad habits as much as good habits.
• 33:14
  Shara Curlett: And so if I did the same thing every day, I'd probably be at the point where I'm like,"Yeah, I need my coffee, I need my this, I need my that, and then I sit down and then I do this." But instead because, you know, I'm a mum, it's My days are so erratic that I'm just grasping at anything.
• 33:32
  Shara Curlett: And so but I've found that's played into my strengths because like my friends have said to me,"How are you so prolific?" And it's because I get some words down every day, but it's not the same time every day.
• 33:45
  Shara Curlett: And like you, I'm thinking in the gaps so that when I get a chance away from my kids,'cause I don't like to use devices in front of my kids, I try to separate mum from kind of work as best I can, and I- So basically, I, I find these gaps, I dump it down, and I get it out fast, and that's what gradually builds the stories'cause you're continually, continually putting words down.
• 34:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, even just that little bit every day-
• 34:13
  Shara Curlett: Mm
• 34:13
  Tina Strachan: is, is better than waiting for a one-hour chunk of time.
• 34:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:16
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 34:16
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Tina Strachan: And it can feel really uncomfortable at first, but I think for anyone listening who's trying to find that perfect time or that one hour of time, this is your message to just do it, and it's gonna feel uncomfortable maybe, but just try it, and try it for a couple of days in a row or a week, and just, just see what happens.
• 34:32
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause you just never know.
• 34:34
  Tina Strachan: So can we go back, go back to your publication story?
• 34:37
  Tina Strachan: So you've written this other amazing book that, Gemma Cooper's did want, but for some small reasons decided not right now, not at this point.
• 34:46
  Tina Strachan: And then you go and put it in a drawer and completely leave it.
• 34:49
  Tina Strachan: And then start writing Protector, with the idea of I wanna write something so amazing that no one can put this down, which is exactly what you've done.
• 34:56
  Tina Strachan: Tell us what happens then.
• 34:57
  Tina Strachan: You've got some words down.
• 34:59
  Tina Strachan: Was it the whole book, or was it just a couple of separate chapters?
• 35:02
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, so I had written about a third of Protector, um, and I was strengthening the pitch.
• 35:09
  Shara Curlett: And the pitch was actually really easy to write because it was such a strong concept.
• 35:15
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I could see that this was really commercial just from what I'd written.
• 35:21
  Shara Curlett: And so I pitched it as a really commercial title, and basically the I comped it as it's being comped now.
• 35:28
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I think ultimately I sent the first seven chapters, um, and the, the pitch to a couple of publishers, and they were both super excited about it, and that was pretty cool.
• 35:44
  Shara Curlett: And, um, yeah, long story short, I got into a situation where two publishers wanted it, and I hadn't pitched it anywhere else.
• 35:55
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I wasn't quite sure what to do, and I get really awkward around all of that stuff.
• 36:01
  Shara Curlett: Despite- That's, that's big.
• 36:02
  Shara Curlett: It's huge.
• 36:02
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 36:03
  Shara Curlett: Just- I don't think
• 36:03
  Tina Strachan: we're supposed to handle that on our own.
• 36:06
  Shara Curlett: Despite having, like, a background in business, all of that stuff just makes me feel awkward.
• 36:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Shara Curlett: So I kind of put it out into the debut crew group that we were part of together, and I just said, like,"This is my situation.
• 36:20
  Shara Curlett: What should I do?" And then Madeleine Cleary- Mm-hmm your co-host.
• 36:24
  Shara Curlett: Who we know very well from
• 36:25
  Tina Strachan: the- Yeah.
• 36:25
  Tina Strachan: From the
• 36:25
  Shara Curlett: pod.
• 36:25
  Shara Curlett: Yes.
• 36:27
  Shara Curlett: She messaged me and said, um,'My agent doesn't do children's literature, but he's happy to have a chat with you,' and that was, uh, Samuel Bernard.
• 36:36
  Shara Curlett: And he kindly just had a chat with me about the situation, and yeah, it was, um, it was It was just so kind of Madeleine firstly to, to mention it to him, and then Sam to just kind of, you know, s- just give up his time to have a chat with me.
• 36:52
  Shara Curlett: Uh, and long story kind of short, he ended up reading a few He ended up reading the pitch.
• 37:00
  Shara Curlett: He, um, he read I sent him a copy of Miracle, and this is all over a very short timeframe.
• 37:09
  Shara Curlett: So I sent him a digital copy of Miracle, and then he had basically signed me the next week.
• 37:15
  Shara Curlett: Wow.
• 37:15
  Shara Curlett: Or maybe Yeah, it was maybe a week and a half or two weeks.
• 37:18
  Shara Curlett: I, I can't remember, but it was very, very quick.
• 37:21
  Shara Curlett: Uh, and from there he managed everything, and it was amazing.
• 37:25
  Shara Curlett: So I signed with Zeitgeist Agency, and basically they managed everything else- Mm-hmm which was just good because, yeah, it, you kind of get to know publishers and you build relationships with them, and I, I feel like The, the business side, I, I don't wanna be part of that.
• 37:45
  Shara Curlett: Like, that just I feel awkward, um, like I said.
• 37:50
  Shara Curlett: And yeah, it just took all that out of my hands, and then I just kind of basically received the offers, um, that came in and, um-
• 37:59
  Tina Strachan: Just sat back and waited for all the offers to come in, yeah.
• 38:02
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 38:02
  Tina Strachan: That's a good spot to be in.
• 38:04
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 38:04
  Shara Curlett: And it was only the It was only two publishers that were ever involved, because it wasn't sent out anywhere else, so.
• 38:09
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Tina Strachan: That's amazing though, to have more than one publisher interested is incredible and, and very exciting times.
• 38:16
  Tina Strachan: But that whole process of with contracts and everything is can be a little bit, um, icky, can't it?
• 38:21
  Tina Strachan: And a lot of people do wonder if you do need an agent, and I think we've spoken enough times on the podcast that, In Australia, you can get in front of publishers without an agent.
• 38:30
  Tina Strachan: We're very lucky that we can do that.
• 38:32
  Tina Strachan: Not all publishers though, obviously, but, um, many you can.
• 38:36
  Tina Strachan: And so that works for a lot of people to do that, but there's still that icky side of the contracts and the dealings,'cause you're talking about money and we're talking about, all those sorts of things.
• 38:44
  Tina Strachan: But there are some agents who, can do contract reviews, can't they?
• 38:50
  Tina Strachan: So they can actually do that for you.
• 38:52
  Tina Strachan: Alex Adsett is one of them, where you can employ them to do that side of it.
• 38:55
  Tina Strachan: Though they don't represent your books,
• 38:57
  Shara Curlett: With Welcome to Miracle, um, so I'm with the New Zealand Society of Authors, and they offer a service as well that you can send a contract to them- Mm and they'll review it, which is amazing.
• 39:06
  Shara Curlett: Um, and so I used that for Miracle, which w- it just gives you that kind of reassurance that, okay, it's maybe just one tweak and, and you're good.
• 39:15
  Shara Curlett: Um, I think the h- the whole whether or not to get an agent thing, what I've found is, you know, there's always pros and cons to everything, but ultimately they know what they're doing and they can negotiate contracts.
• 39:29
  Shara Curlett: And sometimes, like I know with Protector, uh, there were, there were a lot of back and forths with the contract side of things and the clauses, and all of that stuff is, is not necessarily our expertise.
• 39:42
  Shara Curlett: So sometimes the agent is a good thing to handle all those nitty-gritty things that you might just otherwise say yes to.
• 39:50
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 39:50
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I do think if you're a career author, uh, an agent can be helpful because i- otherwise it becomes a lot to manage.
• 40:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 40:00
  Shara Curlett: You're having to deal with the contracts and, and just put your head space into that, and sometimes that can take away from the creativity.
• 40:07
  Shara Curlett: So yeah, I'm, I'm a big Obviously, from my own personal ex- experience, I've found having an agent just takes a huge- Uh, it's taken a chunk of weight off my mind that I just don't even have to think about, which, which I like because I want to write.
• 40:26
  Shara Curlett: I want to write and edit, and that's what I want to do, so
• 40:29
  Tina Strachan: I can totally understand where you're coming from there.
• 40:32
  Tina Strachan: So do you have any advice for anybody looking for an agent or even, like, submitting to a publisher?
• 40:37
  Tina Strachan: What's some top tips that you have for anybody, any aspiring authors out there?
• 40:42
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 40:43
  Shara Curlett: Well, there are a lot of agents throughout Australia.
• 40:46
  Shara Curlett: Uh, there are also agents overseas.
• 40:49
  Shara Curlett: I think it's a matter of what outcome you want from it.
• 40:52
  Shara Curlett: Um, if you're wanting to write something, like, highly commercial, uh, maybe it is the right approach to just go straight to the US and try and get an agent over there.
• 41:00
  Shara Curlett: It's no guarantee, but, uh, you might want...
• 41:04
  Shara Curlett: You might wanna write beautiful picture books, and you might want a UK agent'cause they produce really beautiful hardcover picture books over there.
• 41:11
  Shara Curlett: I, I think it's one of those things that- It comes down to the story, and the s- the feedback that you get you just need to listen to, because a lot of people get really emotionally tied to their stories, and I think that they When you you have to love something that you write, right?
• 41:34
  Shara Curlett: It's why you write it.
• 41:35
  Shara Curlett: Otherwise, you wouldn't be writing it.
• 41:37
  Shara Curlett: But when you become so invested in that story, sometimes you hear feedback and you think,"Oh, actually, no, I d- I disagree with that," which is totally fine.
• 41:46
  Shara Curlett: Um, but at the same time, if you're getting that from a few people, maybe that's what you need to look at rather than,"I'm just gonna keep persisting and keep pushing," uh, which is, is also a great way to go because there are stories of people who have, you know, persisted and they've got a, an agent or a contract.
• 42:04
  Shara Curlett: Uh, but I just come back to depends on what outcome you want to achieve.
• 42:12
  Shara Curlett: Um, and, and that's just ba- based on my business experience really.
• 42:16
  Shara Curlett: Like, if your outcome is you want a highly commercial product- Mm then you need to write a highly commercial product, and if you're getting feedback that it's, um, that it's like a lot of other things or it's not unique enough, then, then that's You have to look at the writing first.
• 42:32
  Shara Curlett: Um, and on the flip side, if you've written something that's so uniquely you, then you just need to find an agent that's looking for that.
• 42:40
  Shara Curlett: I think seeing their submission guidelines and, and seeing what they're looking for, it is a matching process, and you have to, you have to find someone who is your match.
• 42:49
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 42:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely,'cause they're your champion, and you want- them to champion your work.
• 42:54
  Tina Strachan: If you look up agents online, obviously you wanna see if they're open first, and It will often say what they're looking for, doesn't it?
• 42:59
  Tina Strachan: And so don't send them stuff that they are not looking for.
• 43:03
  Tina Strachan: It's a waste of- Yeah everybody's time.
• 43:04
  Tina Strachan: So make sure you do that- Yeah first.
• 43:06
  Tina Strachan: Okay, now Shara, can you tell us when can we expect book two, Protector of Fionn?
• 43:14
  Shara Curlett: Well, I've written the first draft.
• 43:16
  Shara Curlett: Mm.
• 43:16
  Shara Curlett: And my directive was to amp it up and make it even more action-packed than- Wow one.
• 43:25
  Shara Curlett: Oh.
• 43:25
  Shara Curlett: That was my directive.
• 43:26
  Shara Curlett: So I feel like we're at that now.
• 43:30
  Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm.
• 43:30
  Shara Curlett: As with the early draft, and I know how much Protector 1 improved throughout the editing process and, um, like, that was a, such a transformation, and it's credit to my publisher, my editor, um, the vision of the team.
• 43:46
  Shara Curlett: Like, it's such a team approach, and that's what I've really found with Pignon- Penguin Australia.
• 43:51
  Shara Curlett: It feels like a team, and everyone's really invested in the vision of the story.
• 43:55
  Shara Curlett: Um, and I am not precious about anything.
• 43:59
  Shara Curlett: Like, if, if they tell me to slash a scene or cut it or change it, I'm like,"All right, let's do it." This, this is a, this is a wild ride, and I'm here for it.
• 44:08
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 44:08
  Shara Curlett: So with Protector Two, I know where it's at now, and I know we're gonna go through the editing process and it's gonna get even better, and that will be out in a year in September.
• 44:17
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 44:18
  Shara Curlett: So September 2027.
• 44:19
  Shara Curlett: Gosh.
• 44:20
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 44:20
  Tina Strachan: It's a long time to wait- I know but that's amazing.
• 44:23
  Tina Strachan: We can read book one a couple of times, so we're all prepped- Yeah and ready for it.
• 44:28
  Shara Curlett: It's perfect.
• 44:28
  Shara Curlett: Oh.
• 44:28
  Shara Curlett: And it's funny, the re- the re- original contract was every six months, but I think Yeah, every six months, which was- Oh,
• 44:35
  Tina Strachan: wow.
• 44:36
  Shara Curlett: And I would've done it.
• 44:37
  Shara Curlett: Like, but
• 44:38
  Tina Strachan: I- How many words is it, though?
• 44:40
  Shara Curlett: Uh, I think one landed at about mid-60,000s.
• 44:44
  Shara Curlett: Okay.
• 44:44
  Shara Curlett: Or maybe early 70s.
• 44:45
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Shara Curlett: We, we had so many drafts, it went up and down.
• 44:48
  Shara Curlett: At one point it reached 100,000 words- and we had to basically slash it.
• 44:53
  Shara Curlett: Wow.
• 44:53
  Shara Curlett: Uh, but I was like,"Yep, let's, let's do this.
• 44:56
  Shara Curlett: I'm, I'm, I'm ready." And yeah.
• 44:59
  Shara Curlett: Well, I feel really bad now because, uh, quite a few characters were cut.
• 45:04
  Shara Curlett: Amongst them were two of my nieces, minor characters, like I'd named the characters after my nieces, and then I had to tell And a, a friend's daughter, and I had to go and tell them,"I'm so sorry, you're not in book one." But yeah, I think six months we could've done it, but I don't know if it would be what it is.
• 45:20
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 45:20
  Shara Curlett: And I think the time just allows for a really, really good quality book- Mm-hmm that's worth the wait.
• 45:27
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 45:28
  Tina Strachan: And it gives people time to immerse themselves in book one and the world, and really get to know it, and- Mm build the anticipation for book two.
• 45:36
  Tina Strachan: I'm already excited.
• 45:37
  Tina Strachan: Thank you so much, Shara, for spending that time out of your extremely busy schedule.
• 45:41
  Tina Strachan: Uh, we always finish with a number one top tip on the podcast.
• 45:44
  Tina Strachan: What's your top tip for aspiring authors?
• 45:47
  Shara Curlett: Oh, thank you so much for having me on your amazing podcast.
• 45:50
  Shara Curlett: I've been here with you from the very beginning, supporting and cheering you on, and it is such I've just loved it, loved listening to it.
• 45:57
  Shara Curlett: Um, I think my top tip would, would be to separate emotion from publishing, um, because rejections are very rarely personal.
• 46:09
  Shara Curlett: And I know that's, like, easy to say, uh, but I have a very strong business background and, um, anyone who's owned a business will know, like, it's hard.
• 46:18
  Shara Curlett: You work all hours of the day.
• 46:20
  Shara Curlett: You churn and hustle and put on a number of hats, and you don't have the luxury of giving up or taking breaks, um, because it's like your livelihood.
• 46:29
  Shara Curlett: If you stop, that could be your sole income, your house, your life savings.
• 46:34
  Shara Curlett: Um, but I think I've taken that mindset into my career, my writing career, from the very beginning.
• 46:41
  Shara Curlett: Um, like I've always understood ultimately that publishing is a business- And I think this is something that writers can forget or, like w- I was saying before, they become emotionally invested in their story.
• 46:54
  Shara Curlett: Um, but getting a contract is kind of a transaction first and foremost.
• 46:59
  Shara Curlett: Um, the actual writing is the journey, and that's where you'll improve the most, like we've talked about.
• 47:08
  Shara Curlett: Um, like whether or not you get a contract, uh, comes down to skill and voice and your unique story that you want to tell, and whether that matches up with a publisher's list or not, or whether they see it as having the X factor or something they can't stop thinking about.
• 47:23
  Shara Curlett: Um, but I think, yeah, this is one area, if writers can get their head around this, like to put their emotions and Like, we've all got our own egos.
• 47:31
  Shara Curlett: If we put that aside, then I think that helps to clear your mind from the junk, um, and it leaves you free to write the best thing you possibly can.
• 47:41
  Shara Curlett: Um, because I'm not sure many people understand, like- A publisher is looking to fill a list, right?
• 47:49
  Shara Curlett: Every year they have a list that they want to fill, and it might include commercial titles, it might include titles they wanna take a chance on, it might include some debuts or things they think will sell well.
• 48:02
  Shara Curlett: For example, comment- concepts they come up with that they then tap a sh- tap an author on the shoulder and say,"Can you write this?" Um, so basically they're looking to fill a list around a whole combination of factors, and one publisher actually told me it's a little bit like gambling.
• 48:18
  Shara Curlett: So they could throw everything at a book at an author thinking this is gonna be a massive hit- Mm and then it, it doesn't perform the way- Mm they, they thought it would, and vice versa.
• 48:28
  Shara Curlett: Like, you take Dungeon Crawler Carl, for example.
• 48:31
  Shara Curlett: That came out of nowhere- Mm-hmm and that has become a massive hit that no one expected.
• 48:37
  Shara Curlett: So yeah, sh- when she likened it to gambling, I was like,"Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that." Like, a publisher is trying to fill a balance list, and they ultimately need to make a profit because if they don't, there will be less opportunities for us.
• 48:55
  Shara Curlett: So I think kind of...
• 48:57
  Shara Curlett: Yeah, it's, it's not personal, and I think publishers do an amazing balancing act for their lists to celebrate Australian authors and New Zealand authors and, and find that balance.
• 49:10
  Shara Curlett: Um, yeah, I think that would be my biggest tip, tip- Yeah is to It's a business and take emotion out of it and just write the best book you can.
• 49:18
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 49:18
  Tina Strachan: That's an incredible tip.
• 49:20
  Tina Strachan: I don't think we've had that one before, and I think it's, so relevant and so true and, it is hard to, think it in that way because, a lot of people put their heart and soul into their books, but, that's not to say not to do that.
• 49:30
  Tina Strachan: It's just that other side of it.
• 49:31
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 49:31
  Tina Strachan: Getting published and everything, it is a business, and, of course it is.
• 49:35
  Tina Strachan: You know?
• 49:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 49:36
  Tina Strachan: It's, um, about, publishing amazing books, but they still have to make money off those books to be able to publish more in the future.
• 49:42
  Tina Strachan: So- Yeah it's, um, re- it's just the realities, isn't it?
• 49:46
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 49:46
  Shara Curlett: Yeah.
• 49:47
  Shara Curlett: It's a really practical kind of way to think about it, but, um- You know, like if you get a bunch of rejections, like I'm not I, I, I think I've said this before, and it may be a little controversial, but I just don't believe in luck.
• 50:02
  Shara Curlett: Like, I It's timing, it's your own skill, it's, it's so a combination of things.
• 50:07
  Shara Curlett: But it's not luck, because that takes the control and power out of your hands.
• 50:10
  Shara Curlett: Mm.
• 50:11
  Shara Curlett: It's you throwing your hands up and saying,'I can't control this situation.
• 50:14
  Shara Curlett: I can't do anything about it.' But actually, you can.
• 50:16
  Shara Curlett: You can write a new story.
• 50:18
  Shara Curlett: You can change it.
• 50:20
  Shara Curlett: You can take the feedback and, and see what people are telling you, or you could look at it and say,'This has been rejected multiple times.
• 50:26
  Shara Curlett: Why is that?' Like, send it for an assessment.
• 50:29
  Shara Curlett: There are lots of things that can be done, and really, the timing has to, as I say, link up with, uh, what a publisher's looking for for their list for the year.
• 50:38
  Shara Curlett: Absolutely.
• 50:39
  Shara Curlett: It's as simple as that.
• 50:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, right time, right place, right author- Mm right publisher, all those sorts of things.
• 50:43
  Tina Strachan: But you'll never be in that time and place if you're not doing the work, uh-
• 50:48
  Shara Curlett: Yeah
• 50:49
  Tina Strachan: ahead of it.
• 50:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's right.
• 50:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 50:51
  Tina Strachan: Put yourself out there.
• 50:51
  Tina Strachan: Yeah That's what I say.
• 50:53
  Shara Curlett: Yes,
• 50:53
  Tina Strachan: absolutely.
• 50:54
  Tina Strachan: Um, Shara, congratulations on an incredible book.
• 50:56
  Tina Strachan: It's going to be an incredible series, and thank you for taking the time out of your very busy schedule at the moment to come and chat to us on the pod.
• 51:05
  Shara Curlett: Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Tina.
• 51:07
  Shara Curlett: It's been an absolute joy.
• 51:14
  Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 51:18
  If you are enjoying the pod, we'd really appreciate you following or sharing the show in your podcast directory, checking us out on Instagram and Facebook, or supporting us through our Patreon community at patreon.com/thebookdealpodcast