Latest / CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered. / Executive Feature: AI and the New Era of Medical Diagnosis with Seth Rainford of Digital Diagnostics

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Executive Feature: AI and the New Era of Medical Diagnosis with Seth Rainford of Digital Diagnostics · CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered.

• 0:00
  Affordability, access, and quality are often referred to as the iron triangle of healthcare.
• 0:05
  There are trade offs among them.
• 0:07
  You can improve one or two, but not all three.
• 0:10
  But today we'll explore whether artificial intelligence can break that trade off and lead to a new and golden era of medical diagnosis and treatment.
• 0:26
  Welcome to CareTalk Executive Features, a series where we spotlight innovative companies and leaders working to advance the healthcare field.
• 0:33
  I'm your host, David Williams, president of Health Business Group.
• 0:36
  My guest today is Seth Rainford, president and co founder of Digital Diagnostics.
• 0:41
  Seth, welcome to CareTalk Thank you for having me.
• 0:43
  I know we've been talking about this for a while.
• 0:45
  I'm excited to be with you.
• 0:47
  It's a great one.
• 0:48
  I want to start maybe, uh, a little broad and say, you know, what are some of the challenges of medical diagnosis?
• 0:55
  Well, that is broad, but I think it's a, I think it's a fair question.
• 0:59
  And, uh, you know, it's interesting throughout my career.
• 1:03
  I I've spent a little bit of time in the provider space and the health system space, uh, spent some time in commercial diagnostics for fortune 300 company.
• 1:13
  And more recently.
• 1:14
  I've spent time in healthcare technology and SAS and, uh, of course artificial intelligence, AI, uh, and the like.
• 1:23
  And across care settings, this question of medical diagnosis is something that, uh, is important first and foremost.
• 1:32
  Uh, I think I've heard it said that something like 80 percent of all medical decisions have to do with, or start with.
• 1:41
  a medical diagnosis.
• 1:43
  So, uh, I think the importance of the question is legitimate.
• 1:47
  And I don't know about you, but if you've been to the physician recently, or, um, you've had some sort of issue you're working on, it almost always starts with, you know, what the heck's going on?
• 1:58
  Uh, let's let's see how we can diagnose So, Um, so, you know, I, I think it's, uh, it's something that you can't question the importance of and yet, uh, you asked about the challenges.
• 2:11
  And so I, I think from, from, uh, uh, what's really at the heart here, whether we're talking about traditional diagnostics with, you know, uh, blood samples or body fluids, uh, or we're talking about stuff like medical imaging and AI.
• 2:26
  Uh, access is probably where I would start and finish the conversation.
• 2:30
  How are folks getting the testing that they need and how ultimately does that help them get feeling better?
• 2:36
  So I think, uh, I think access is probably, uh, the first thing on my mind as I think about challenges, you know, when I consider.
• 2:44
  Diagnosis, a lot of times you hear someone is being treated for this, that or the other and you don't hear about the diagnosis part and of course it's important to get the diagnosis right because if you don't get the diagnosis right, then the treatment is likely to be wrong and ineffective or harmful.
• 2:58
  I was actually visiting a neighbor of mine who's being treated for cancer at this point.
• 3:03
  But it took him a long while.
• 3:04
  He first was diagnosed with something else.
• 3:07
  And he had access, actually, but he got the wrong diagnosis.
• 3:10
  Now, they realized after a while that it, you know, must be the wrong diagnosis since the treatment wasn't working.
• 3:16
  So, you talk about access.
• 3:17
  So, let's dig into access a little bit.
• 3:19
  You know, so here...
• 3:20
  I've got, I know somebody with a lot of access, so even if you have just like broadly access, it's not, it's not enough.
• 3:26
  What are some of the issues specifically with access?
• 3:30
  Well, it sounds like with your friend, uh, you know, they had a nice ability to be able to get and see someone, but for a lot of the population and it's been a hot topic as of late, they're either in a rural setting or if they're, you know, if they're in a more urban setting and there are a number of physicians, they may be waiting.
• 3:49
  Two, three months, uh, sometimes four or five, six months, if it's a specialist to actually get in and see someone.
• 3:55
  And so, you know, we, we start to unpack a number of topics there as it relates to healthcare delivery and, uh, you know, where are patients getting seen.
• 4:03
  Um, but that's, that's one of the reasons I mentioned access is it's just, even if you're in an area where there are clinicians and they're willing to, to talk to you, uh, and able, um, to, to look at things like, you know, what kind of diagnostics should we run?
• 4:17
  Sometimes you got to wait a while to get in.
• 4:19
  And, you know, in the, in the example of your friend, uh, I'm sorry to hear, you know, is, is going through that, uh, glad they were able to get into someone, but as you point out, um, sometimes it's a, it's a bit of a, a bit of a journey to start to, you know, look at how do we, how do we, uh, have high quality diagnoses that ultimately lead to the right treatment at the right time.
• 4:40
  I've heard the term actually a diagnostic odyssey, which sometimes describes somebody, especially if they have something that's a little bit rare.
• 4:47
  that it's hard for them to actually get the right diagnosis.
• 4:50
  And they, they sometimes say that, you know, when you're, when you hear hoof hoofs, you know, think horses, not zebras, 80 or 90 percent of the time that's right.
• 5:01
  But if it is a zebra, you know, it may take a long time for you to realize that or.
• 5:05
  You know, or not.
• 5:06
  So I think there's also a lot of biases that come into play, uh, you know, even if you've got a good diagnostician.
• 5:12
  So I'm, I'm curious about what are some of the approaches that have been used historically to address this question of access?
• 5:18
  Is it just a matter of, Hey, we'll just ignore it.
• 5:20
  And that's just, that's just how it is.
• 5:22
  And we'll just take a long while or have there been other attempts to deal with this issue of access, which is, which I think is a somewhat recognized issue.
• 5:31
  Yeah, no, uh, I think it's, I think it's multifaceted, right.
• 5:34
  Um, and I think, uh, Historically, patients being able to just go into the physician, um, you know, that's, that's nearby and at least have a panel of different, uh, different things, you know, being run has been, uh, something where some percentage of the population could do that relatively easy.
• 5:51
  And others, uh, either for.
• 5:54
  Um, transportation reasons, cost reasons, um, you know, there are a number of things that go into, am I, am I actually getting the testing that I need at the time that I need it, or am I delaying care, which, uh, you know, perhaps another topic we'll get into at some point, you know, as it relates to.
• 6:11
  The pandemic where, uh, you know, folks, uh, folks maybe couldn't get what they needed when they needed it or, uh, or didn't have the ability to take off work, uh, and, and go and actually, uh, spend time getting both, uh, the, the front end, uh, permission or order from a physician and then ultimately getting, you know, some degree of testing done, um, uh, as we experienced with, uh, with, with obviously the pandemic.
• 6:34
  So, um, so, you know, I think it's, uh, I think it has depended greatly on.
• 6:39
  Uh, geography, uh, and obviously, uh, in some cases, socioeconomic status, um, uh, as well as other demographic traits that, uh, you know, unfortunately have shed a light on some, some real issues that we're, I think now hoping to democratize some of the access, uh, that's badly needed throughout the country.
• 6:57
  So.
• 6:58
  Um, so again, not, not a, not an easy, straightforward answer there, but I'd certainly like to believe some of what we're doing starts to, starts to solve for some of that.
• 7:07
  So Digital Diagnostics is, is a fascinating company and I want to dig into what you're doing now, but I'm always interested in the origin story of the company.
• 7:15
  You've got some of it mentioned on the website, but I'd love to hear just from your perspective.
• 7:19
  You know, why did the company come into be into being in the first place?
• 7:23
  Yeah, well, succinctly, we talk about, uh, ultimately impacting patient outcomes, right?
• 7:28
  So, and again, in your, in your friend's story, what we would really hope for there is, uh, is for the patient outcome to meaningfully be changed.
• 7:35
  Um, so patient outcomes are, uh, are central for us.
• 7:39
  Cost, uh, is another one, you know, whether we're talking about.
• 7:42
  Cost to the end user and the patient, um, or cost to the system, uh, cost for customers.
• 7:49
  Uh, there's just a, at its heart is we want to make healthcare more affordable.
• 7:52
  And I know that's a, I know that's something that a lot of companies focus on, but for us, that is a very worthwhile endeavor given, you know, where cost has been in this country for quite some time now.
• 8:02
  Um, quality is a, is, is something that, uh, we may also get to later where, uh, perhaps debatable and, and hard to measure at times.
• 8:10
  But, um.
• 8:11
  You know, our, our origin story started with, uh, with those three things and, uh, as well as equity, just making sure that, uh, we, if we democratize access to these tests and anybody who, uh, wants to or needs to access it can in fact access it.
• 8:25
  So, um, so our, the company was born out of, uh, those foundational principles, um, and it is sort of this marrying up of, uh, the technology being available, uh, a history of data that allowed us to build.
• 8:41
  Uh, what we like to call a either right way in a responsible way where we prioritize patient safety first.
• 8:47
  Um, and, uh, and then a lot of work with, uh, starting with the FDA and then a number of other stakeholders to make sure not only do we have technology that's safe for patients, but, uh, can actually be adopted in the market.
• 8:59
  Um, you know, so working with folks like.
• 9:01
  CMS, uh, the American Diabetes Association, the AO, the AMA, uh, so that it's not just a cool technology, uh, but it's technology that actually can get into the hands of the folks that really need it.
• 9:14
  Yeah.
• 9:14
  You mentioned up front, uh, your background working in a lot of different areas of diagnostics, including for some very large and well known organizations here.
• 9:22
  So you really got the landscape on it.
• 9:25
  And how did you, you know, how did you hear about this organization?
• 9:29
  And I know you're one of the founders.
• 9:31
  You know, how did the founders come together and sort of, what do you all bring to the, to the table and why do you specifically?
• 9:37
  Participate.
• 9:38
  Yeah.
• 9:39
  Well, for me specifically, I, uh, I got pulled in by the investors, uh, you know, which I suppose is probably not a surprise.
• 9:48
  Um, yeah, this, uh, this was a great product and had extremely good potential.
• 9:54
  Uh, but myself, um, John Michael, uh, sort of the.
• 9:59
  The founders, if you will, all I found to bring something different to the table, which is just, uh, it's such a blessing because, uh, you know, all of us are different and bring different things.
• 10:10
  And when you have sort of different skill sets, um, and different potential, I think it's been a really nice maturation for, for those things to come together.
• 10:19
  And the team, you know, I'm talking about the founders, but really the team that's come together.
• 10:24
  Uh, is, is something that I think, uh, is extremely important.
• 10:27
  And this technology does not get into the hands of folks that need it.
• 10:30
  Were it not for, you know, uh, a fantastic team to bring it to bear.
• 10:35
  So it's great background.
• 10:35
  Let's talk about the main product that you have and what it actually does.
• 10:39
  I will say, first of all, the, uh, the original name was a little bit of a doozy as far as I'm concerned.
• 10:43
  And it's like.
• 10:45
  IDXDR.
• 10:46
  One of my questions is about why did you change the name?
• 10:48
  Although I think I can understand that maybe you could talk about what it is and maybe what the new name is and what that name is meant to convey.
• 10:57
  Yeah, so the technology itself, Luminetics Core, uh, is, uh, is technology that Uh, ultimately takes medical images, images of your retina, and, uh, within just a few seconds, the, uh, the AI can look at those images and diagnose you for, uh, diabetic retinopathy, uh, and macular edema.
• 11:17
  So the leading cause of blindness in most developed countries, um, and, uh, you know, the power of that is, uh, now anywhere where you have.
• 11:25
  Uh, power outlet where you could plug the system in, you unlock access, you know, our, our topic earlier to care for any patient that, uh, that qualifies and that needs it, uh, in terms of the naming conventions, you, uh, you hit the nail on the head.
• 11:39
  There was both, uh, both a little bit of a legacy with IDX in particular, those three letters and other companies and or products, um, as well as just some at times, some general confusion and, you know, we would get everything from.
• 11:52
  DXI to DRDX and, you know, it just was, uh, the, the naming convention, uh, for, for a company that's maturing was, uh, was sort of low hanging fruit to look at, you know, as the company matures and as this brand really, we try and unlock the power of what we're doing here.
• 12:08
  How do we position it in the market accordingly?
• 12:11
  And that's where lumenetics core really comes into play.
• 12:15
  Let's talk about, uh, diabetic retinopathy to start with.
• 12:18
  You know, when you're looking at, uh, diabetes and quality of care there, a lot of things I look at to see is, you know, somebody's a one C under control.
• 12:25
  Have they had a foot exam?
• 12:26
  Have they had an eye exam?
• 12:27
  And, uh, this is usually what they're looking for, diabetic retinopathy, and a lot of people haven't had an eye exam.
• 12:32
  Now, there have been some other things tried in the past, like putting, uh, putting a camera in a rural office, or doing something like that, but you go a step way beyond that, if I understand.
• 12:43
  It does not require a clinician.
• 12:45
  At all for a diagnosis.
• 12:46
  And it's not even just for screening, but actually for, for diagnosis.
• 12:49
  So that's, that's what I understood.
• 12:51
  Yeah, it's a, and that is, uh, you're hitting on the, uh, real differentiator in our technology, right?
• 12:57
  As, uh, the telemedicine has been around for a long time and clearly has done some good in different areas, but.
• 13:04
  But really, we have not seen the uptick in telemedicine, you know, even leading up to COVID.
• 13:09
  And, and, you know, certainly to some extent post COVID, um, that we would hope for.
• 13:14
  And part of the reason, at least we, we think is that there's a, there is a power in being able to give a patient in the presence of a clinician, a result right there at the point of care, um, and be able to have a conversation about a referral if need be.
• 13:31
  Um, and just a holistic view on their health.
• 13:35
  And so, um, we refer to that as autonomous AI and, uh, have worked with, I mentioned before, working with folks like the American Medical Association to appropriately bucket these, these different levels of, uh, of AI.
• 13:49
  Um, and, uh, you know, find that that that particular ability to be able to have a real live conversation with the patient has been, uh, like I said, uh, pretty much a game changer for being able to not only diagnose, but have that next step conversation in terms of what do I do know?
• 14:06
  What do I do now that I have a result?
• 14:09
  Um, that is, you know, perhaps not desirable.
• 14:13
  Can you talk a little bit about the AI?
• 14:14
  Because on the one hand, you know, AI has been around for a while, and I think it's actually been working in the background.
• 14:19
  And just over the past, you know, year or less than a year, uh, with the emergence of these large language models, things like chat GPT, open AI, you know, there's a lot of interest in it, but there's also a lot of concern, like that the thing might hallucinate.
• 14:32
  And maybe that's because it has macular edema itself.
• 14:35
  I don't know, but maybe it's a visual effect, but probably not.
• 14:38
  Uh, how does somebody feel confident?
• 14:41
  That the AI is being used, you know, for the right kind of, you know, more definitive diagnosis, as opposed to, you know, kind of made something up, like help, help me bridge that gap.
• 14:51
  I have so much to say on this topic.
• 14:53
  We don't have time for it all, but I'll, um, I'll hit maybe the high points and, um, you can tell me maybe where to go next from there.
• 14:59
  Cause like I said, I can go a lot of different directions here.
• 15:02
  Um, first of all, let me just say, uh, with respect to patients and patients experiencing.
• 15:09
  AI, uh, we experience AI every day, right?
• 15:12
  And sometimes we don't necessarily know it.
• 15:14
  Um, but the, the, the consumer reaction to AI is one that we are really interested in and is, and is very important to us.
• 15:24
  Um, It's one of the reasons, frankly, we started with the FDA, right?
• 15:27
  I mean, there's so many, so many different, uh, you read every day and probably multiple articles a day about different AI, even in, even in healthcare.
• 15:35
  If we just want to focus on the healthcare as a vertical for right now, um, that, uh, it's, it's easy to get distracted or maybe lose, uh, the force for the trees a little bit on, uh, consumers experiencing AI.
• 15:47
  So, um, I've said in, in past public forums, it was important to us to avoid an AI winter like we saw with, um, uh, you know, gene therapy as the example that we often cite.
• 16:01
  And so, uh, what do you do to avoid that?
• 16:04
  Well, uh, in our opinions, you're extremely transparent about what's happening.
• 16:10
  Uh, we build a model that from, from design through conceptualization of the AI.
• 16:16
  We're open about what's going on, uh, so that not, not just, uh, consumers, but anybody who's interacting or coming across AI has an appreciation for, uh, the transparency and the traceability of everything that's happened with this very powerful, amazing tool.
• 16:34
  You know that we have so, um, I think that that that in and of itself explains why we took the path that we did.
• 16:40
  Right.
• 16:40
  So there are a number of other folks that work on commercializing something that's never been through the FDA or, you know, anything like it.
• 16:48
  And that is where, you know, I, I get a little bit worried if we have black boxes and we don't actually know what's going on.
• 16:55
  And then we're, you know, We're making life and death decisions.
• 16:58
  You know, that's where you, you begin to say, Whoa, hold on a second.
• 17:00
  We need it.
• 17:01
  We just need some, some guardrails here.
• 17:03
  So, um, transparency, super important to us.
• 17:06
  Uh, FDA, uh, very high bar, highest bar there is very important to us and, uh, all of that I think leads to, you know, what we would hope is a really, um, favorable and, uh, uh, and solid experience with a consumer where consumers, uh, you know, at least as we have gauged it through NPS scores have really appreciated what our technology brings to bear.
• 17:30
  That trust between, you know, us, the company customer and the, and the consumer is something that, you know, you can't take for granted.
• 17:37
  And, um, I can say more about, uh, sort of the, the, the evolving opinion of the consumer, but maybe we'll, we'll stop there.
• 17:43
  Uh, but hopefully that answers your question.
• 17:46
  Sure.
• 17:46
  No, it does.
• 17:47
  Let's talk about how, you know, the change that you're making in healthcare.
• 17:51
  Um, intersects with some of the other things that are happening at a macro level.
• 17:55
  So certainly the pandemic put a lot of stresses on the traditional health system, and it also provided an opportunity for some of the folks that are a little closer to the consumer.
• 18:04
  I'm thinking about some of the retailers like CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, even Amazon, Target, Walmart to be able to step up and play a greater role.
• 18:14
  And they're doing that to a greater extent now as well.
• 18:17
  And they also offer not just kind of the healthcare side of it and the pharmacy, but also, you know, broader set of goods and services, a different sort of a feel and a convenience.
• 18:25
  How do you see what's going on in that space relating to.
• 18:29
  What you're doing, there's some, you're tackling some of the same forces.
• 18:32
  You're actually working with some of the retailers.
• 18:33
  How do those go together?
• 18:35
  Well, uh, it is thematic for some of the things we've talked about in my opinion.
• 18:40
  Uh, and what that means is, uh, starting with the earlier part of your question, the pandemic, um, you know, as, as many have cited before me made us rethink delivery at a minimum.
• 18:52
  Right.
• 18:52
  And how has healthcare been delivered historically?
• 18:55
  How do we deliver it going forward?
• 18:57
  Um, and how do we adjust as we need to?
• 18:59
  And, um, the retailers played a key role in that.
• 19:03
  And I think we'll continue to play a key role going forward because what we had seen happening even years before the pandemic was this.
• 19:11
  Sort of more consumer-centric model where patients want to be met, where they want to experience healthcare, and sometimes that's not in a traditional medical office building or within the four, four walls of an acute care setting.
• 19:25
  Um, and so the, you know, you look at this, these brick and mortar locations all across the country, and you, you, you know, you begin to see the potential for us to make a real impact in meeting those patients where they actually want to be met.
• 19:39
  And so now how do you couple that with our technology, if you will, um, I would say, uh, unsurprisingly, when we, when the pandemic hit, uh, we saw backlogs stack up very quickly for patients that wanted to get access to care.
• 19:53
  And, you know, they had an even longer wait than, you know, my, my previous discussion around access where it's just a couple of months.
• 19:59
  And so, um, enter this technology that you can plug into the wall and, uh, has been validated to be.
• 20:05
  You know, um, really, really high quality and, uh, you can work down those backlogs while sort of prioritizing, um, the, the human, uh, very, very capable, uh, and amazing human, uh, capital resources that we have available on higher licensed tasks.
• 20:24
  So, uh, I think that was, uh, perhaps, uh, an impetus to what we're doing as a catalyst, if you will, to what we're doing.
• 20:31
  Um, and I would, uh.
• 20:33
  I would say I don't think that's changing anytime soon.
• 20:36
  In fact, uh, I think you can see in some of the relationships that we're building and some of the places we're going, being able to, uh, you know, have our AI in those care settings for patients to be able to take a few minutes, get diagnosed noninvasively and, and have those test results.
• 20:51
  Uh, is something we continue to think will be really, really powerful and meaningful.
• 20:55
  Where are you deploying the technology?
• 20:57
  Is it in a retail setting or physician offices or some other, other kind of locations?
• 21:02
  Yeah, all of the above.
• 21:03
  Uh, we started perhaps, uh, no surprise with, uh, some of the research partners and academic centers and then pretty quickly expanded to, uh, health systems, IDNs, large provider groups.
• 21:15
  Um, I think given some of my earlier comments, it's, it's also, uh, unsurprising that FQHCs are a spot that.
• 21:21
  You know, we really think this technology can do a lot of good.
• 21:25
  Um, and, uh, as I also alluded to, we've had some press around, uh, retail as a place also that I think we, we squarely belong.
• 21:33
  So it's, it's, it's all of the above, um, Medicare Advantage groups, of course, given your, your earlier comments around the importance of a diabetic eye exam and sometimes the difficulty for patients to close that care gap.
• 21:44
  Um, you know, that, that is, uh, That is very near and dear to folks that, uh, have global risk, like an MA group.
• 21:50
  So, um, I, all of the above is the easy answer, but, uh, it's sort of been a, a, a transition from one group to the other, uh, just sort of as, uh, as demand has presented.
• 22:01
  Got it.
• 22:01
  And of course the FQHCs are the federally qualified health centers, which have already kind of a holistic approach, uh, to what they do.
• 22:08
  So I think this would naturally fit into their philosophy, whether or not they've actually been able to serve that.
• 22:12
  Uh, in the past, so I think that's an interesting, interesting space for it.
• 22:16
  Now, as you're observing all these care settings, I mean, we're mentioning what the retailers are doing relative to some of the health systems and how they may be more consumer oriented and, and so on.
• 22:26
  But the health systems are, you know, the people that work at health systems also go to CVS or Walgreens too.
• 22:32
  They see what's happening, they're part of it.
• 22:34
  Are the health systems responding?
• 22:36
  Are they, are they able to do that?
• 22:37
  How, how do you see?
• 22:38
  the health care environment moving along?
• 22:42
  Well, uh, I don't know that I have any, uh, tremendously original thoughts here.
• 22:46
  Um, but I will just say, I think, uh, certainly health systems have been, um, underappreciated at times.
• 22:53
  Uh, I think they absolutely are doing.
• 22:55
  fantastic work in caring for, uh, you know, patients that badly need care.
• 23:00
  Um, and again, we saw that, uh, acutely when, when the pandemic hit and we, we really needed those, uh, those sites to step up and step up.
• 23:09
  They did.
• 23:10
  Um, and I think it's also fair to say in the same breath that, uh, delivery is going to continue to change and patients are going to continue to want to experience.
• 23:19
  Different parts of their care in different care settings, whether it is retail or certainly we see all kinds of movements into the home in various ways.
• 23:29
  So, um, I don't know that those traditional health care settings are going away so much as.
• 23:35
  Uh, evolving a little bit with, uh, with healthcare delivery as it has begun to shift, and I think will continue to shift, um, and you could, you could certainly throw in, uh, you know, the, the movement away from fee for service to value, albeit slowly, uh, as another catalyst for some of that change.
• 23:51
  So you talked about a couple of indications in ophthalmology between diabetic retinopathy and macular edema.
• 23:57
  I see the company is also has a foray into dermatology, and can you describe a little bit about, you know, why dermatology?
• 24:04
  What you're doing there, and is it really just one more application like ophthalmology, or is there something different about DERM?
• 24:11
  Um, well, I think, I think it's both.
• 24:15
  I think, uh, why dermatology, uh, in, in the same way that we had an amazing amount of data for us to be able to prove that a computer could actually be as good or better than a human at diagnosing a medical image, um, DERM is an interesting space, right?
• 24:30
  And, uh, many of the same problems that we.
• 24:33
  sought to solve from a patient outcome standpoint, uh, in ophthalmology and with retina specialists in, in getting, uh, some of this technology, um, closer to where the patient is experiencing that first visit, right?
• 24:46
  So democratizing some of the access for patients to, uh, to be able to know whether or not they have.
• 24:51
  Those diseases is, is much the same playbook around dermatology, right?
• 24:55
  There are oftentimes, uh, supply and demand mismatch in different geographies and, uh, and access is a challenge.
• 25:04
  Um, and, uh, I think the, the, the specialist community.
• 25:07
  Uh, all the same appreciates what we're trying to do and helping to identify these patients earlier on and get them to those specialists for treatment, uh, if they need to.
• 25:17
  So, you know, there is a, there is some element of, uh, similar playbook to, you know, what we've run, uh, inside the eye.
• 25:25
  With some of the, some of the things we've worked on to date.
• 25:27
  And, um, I think there, there also is, um, uh, desire to do more within the eye, um, and also to build out our platform a little bit more broadly outside the eye, which, uh, you know, obviously, um, Uh, folks like to talk about platforms these days and I suppose, suppose we're no different in that, you know, we're, we're not a point solution.
• 25:49
  We, we're, uh, working very hard to be a diagnostic platform that offers patients all kinds of different tests at the point of care so that they can better obviously manage their health and hopefully sooner and at a lower cost.
• 26:03
  You know, the point you make about early diagnosis, uh, is I think a key one.
• 26:07
  I know that when, you know, by the time somebody does eventually four, six months or two years later get themselves to the right specialist, sometimes it's now the condition has progressed to the point where the, the greatest surgeon or diagnostician can't really do anything.
• 26:23
  And they may be thinking, I wish you'd, you know, sort of stopped here first.
• 26:27
  When we could have done something about it.
• 26:29
  And I, so I think when you talk about the specialty community being supportive, that's, that's the sort of thing that you're, that you're talking about.
• 26:36
  Is that, is that what you're, what you're seeing?
• 26:39
  It is what we're seeing, uh, for the folks on the frontline and, and, you know, we, we, as others do broadly define as frontline care, uh, appreciate being able to provide one more really key service to their patients so that they, while they're there to get their regular checkup, they can also get some.
• 26:54
  Specialist level testing.
• 26:56
  Um, so they're sort of appreciative of the value that that brings and they certainly care about their patients and want their patients to know what's going on.
• 27:04
  Uh, on the specialist side of things, as I referenced earlier, they're just as busy as all the other providers and trying to keep up with with demand.
• 27:12
  So, you know, The more we can focus on narrow tasks to get them patients that actually need their top of license interventions, uh, the, the happier they are, um, because they're, they're really helping patients, which, you know, generally speaking is what they went to school to do.
• 27:27
  Um, it's better for, from a business perspective, and I think for all those reasons and more, that's why I think the specialist community has been as supportive of what we're doing, uh, as they have been.
• 27:37
  I was reflecting on dermatology a little bit, you know, as a, uh.
• 27:41
  Uh, as somebody with excellent health insurance and living in Boston, but also as a bald redhead, uh, you know, I worry about my dermatological concerns.
• 27:50
  And I find it's actually access is somewhat difficult because a lot of the dermatologists are interested in, partly for financial reasons, some of the cosmetic procedures.
• 28:00
  And so it's actually can be hard to find a medical dermatologist that really wants to do some of this boring work of looking at the skin and trying to find a mole that may, that may change.
• 28:08
  I've addressed that because I have a friend who's a dermatologist, pathologist, and that's who I go to because I know he cares about me and he cares about pathology, but you know, that's not an option for everybody.
• 28:17
  So it seems to me that it also has that kind of a role.
• 28:20
  Even, you know, in not replacement, but in really in support of a specialist to be able to do some of those tasks, um, that are going to be really helpful and from a patient standpoint, helpful as well.
• 28:32
  I mean, I, I would like to see something like that, uh, you know, in my, in my dermatologist office so that they don't miss something on my primary care office.
• 28:39
  I guess this is 100 percent accretive to what they're doing, which I think is your point, right?
• 28:44
  It's a.
• 28:45
  It's something that can be done, uh, where patients are wanting to experience care and it saves somebody like you, uh, who, you know, by all accounts should have great access to, you know, to what you need.
• 28:58
  Um, it saves you the trip, uh, and it should save you some money.
• 29:02
  It's easy.
• 29:03
  Uh, like I mentioned before, it's noninvasive and it's, you know, it's something that.
• 29:07
  Uh, you know, they, at the end of the day are really going to appreciate because if you're presenting then to them, they know there's something they really got to look at.
• 29:14
  And, uh, you know, that's, uh, that's, uh, all things considered are really a win all around.
• 29:20
  So I just want to spend a minute on where the company's going.
• 29:23
  So you mentioned the, the platform opportunity and how you're going with ophthalmology and dermatology.
• 29:28
  Do you see, you know, are there, are there other things that you're at liberty to talk about in terms of how you'd extend that platform or other kinds of directions that you'd expect the company to follow over the next couple of years?
• 29:38
  Yeah, I alluded to it before, but this is, uh, this is we are building a platform that is not just a point solution.
• 29:44
  And the folks that we're working with now, uh, and we are, we're growing like crazy, uh, are interested both in what we bring, uh, today, because the, the, the, the tests that we have.
• 29:55
  Available right now adds tremendous value to what they're doing, whether they are still living in a fee for service world, or they're living more in a value based care world or have global risk, for example, but for as much for that, as for what else is coming, they are interested in.
• 30:11
  What other things, once this, um, once this platform is in place, can we add on?
• 30:16
  Right, so what other testing can you do off the images of the retina that you're getting?
• 30:21
  Uh, what other tests are you going to do outside of the eye, perhaps?
• 30:25
  Uh, can you do something like cardiovascular disease with an image of the retina, as we've, you know, heard or read about?
• 30:32
  I think the short answer is yes to all of those.
• 30:34
  It's more of a where does it fit on the product road map for us?
• 30:38
  How does the timing work out?
• 30:39
  Is there a high fidelity data that leads us down that path?
• 30:44
  And ultimately, what do, uh, what will move the needle on patient outcomes and help our customers add more value to each visit while they have, while they're there in the presence of a patient.
• 30:55
  So, um, that's a long way of saying, uh, Our vision is to have, you know, um, a lot of testing that we can do on this platform all, uh, sort of at the point of care and, uh, with a very, uh, high quality, rigorously validated tests that ultimately are safe and effective for patients.
• 31:14
  Seth Forbes named you recently one of the top 10 healthcare entrepreneurs to watch, so congratulations for that.
• 31:19
  So, I want to ask, you know, why did they do that, and do you feel like people have been watching you since that time?
• 31:26
  That's a funny question.
• 31:28
  Feels a little bit Big Brother y.
• 31:29
  I don't think so.
• 31:31
  No, look, uh, it's like keep an eye on that guy, you know, yeah, watch out, watch out for him.
• 31:36
  No, I think, uh, listen, any recognition, uh, I've gotten is, is very squarely something that is, uh, that is the, the team's work, right?
• 31:46
  I mean, if, uh, in the example that you use, uh, I may have been the one nominated, but I simply am.
• 31:52
  A reflection of the, the, the, the broader team's great work.
• 31:56
  And, um, you know, they're really who deserve the credit for something like that.
• 32:00
  So I don't know if I'm being watched.
• 32:02
  I think the company's being watched because, you know, we're, we're doing some really compelling things.
• 32:06
  Um, and, uh, and I would continue to watch, you know, what we're doing in terms of really bringing valuable stuff, uh, to healthcare.
• 32:15
  I'm excited about that part, but, but no, uh, I would say anything like that is, uh, is squarely.
• 32:20
  Credit goes to the team.
• 32:21
  Uh, and that's just, uh, it's a nice thing, but they're really who, who does the hard stuff.
• 32:26
  Well, you're too modest.
• 32:27
  So I won't follow up with any, uh, you know, any embarrassing questions that'll make you blush further, but congratulations on that.
• 32:33
  Thank you.
• 32:34
  Well, that's it for the latest episode of the CareTalk Executive Features Series.
• 32:38
  My guest today is Seth Rainford.
• 32:39
  He's president and co founder of Digital Diagnostics.
• 32:43
  If you've enjoyed this show, Please leave a rating and subscribe on your favorite service.
• 32:48
  And Seth, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 32:51
  Thanks so much