Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Episode 24: Neha Gandhi, COO & Editor-in-Chief Girlboss

Transcript

Episode 24: Neha Gandhi, COO & Editor-in-Chief Girlboss · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hurglar is Emily Abodi here. Welcome back to Hurdle, a
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: podcast that talks to top CEOs and entrepreneurs who've gotten
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: through some of life's most difficult times hurdles, if you will,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: by leaning into wellness. This week in episode twenty four,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm catching up with Naha Gandhi, she's the cooo and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: nitor in chief of Girl Boss. Before we get into it,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a quick shout out to the sponsor of today's episode, Athleticgreens.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you at last week's installment of Hurdle
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Live with Michael Chreanell and Dan Churchill and doctor Jason Worslin,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: there couldn't have been more Athleticgreens love to go around.
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• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So let's chat Neha.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: You know, we recorded this episode a couple of months
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: ago during my LA stint, and listening back to the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: content this week, I remember how lucky I felt walking
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: out of their offices in Silver Lake. For those of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you who may be newer to Hurdle or just aren't
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: up to speed on my backstory, I spend most of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: my days writing and editing content for a living as
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a freelance journalist for a bunch of different brands, from
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Shape and GQ to Pop Sugger Runners, Rold Cosmopalden Well
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and Good Self a bunch more.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Neha has worked her way.
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  Speaker 1: Up the ranks through some of the most respected editorial
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  Speaker 1: brands in the field to.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Get to where she is today.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: So needless to say, her career wisdom is on point
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and it really really resonated with me. Whether or not
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: you're a journalist, it's the kind of actionable advice that
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: can help anyone advance in their field.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: We talk about a lot of other things too.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: We talk about her big cross country move from New
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: York to LA almost a year ago, and that move
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: left her feeling a little bit lonely, leaning into routines
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: like exercise and meditation to help her feel some sort
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of consistency in all of the newness. I will babble
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: on for much longer. As always, Please take a second
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: to rate and review Hurdle in the iTunes store. Follow
• 2:09
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• 2:14
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• 2:16
  Speaker 1: on your Instagram account. Do it right now and I'll
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: definitely make sure to repost it on hurdles. Feel free
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: to shoot me in email so we can chat about
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all the things, maybe a Hurdle moment of your own.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: My emails Emily at hurdle dot us, and I think
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: one more time, a huge thank you to everyone who
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: came out to last week's Hurdle Live. It feels so
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: awesome to bring together so many great people in the
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: same room who are just active and passionate and care
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: about in person, real relationships.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: It's the best.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: If you're in the New York City area, please come
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: out to the next Hurdle Live taping on October thirtieth
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: at Paragon Sports. I'll be sitting down with the co
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: founder of on Running caspar Coopetti. You can get all
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the details about the live podcast taping at parag on
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Hurdle's website Hurdle dot us.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And that's it. Let's get to hurdling today.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting here with Neha Gandhi. She is the editor
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: in chief and COO of girl Boss.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks for sitting down with me today.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: I think first and foremost what we should do is
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  Speaker 1: talk to the audience a little bit about what girl
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  Speaker 1: Boss is.
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  Speaker 2: So we are in Los Angeles.
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  Speaker 3: We are in Los Angeles, in Silver Lake, at our
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  Speaker 3: HQ where most of our team works. And girl Boss
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  Speaker 3: is a company that's almost a year and a half old.
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  Speaker 3: It's rooted in the best selling book from twenty fourteen
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  Speaker 3: that Sophia Amarusso wrote, so called girl Boss. And we
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  Speaker 3: are a platform in a community for women who want
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  Speaker 3: to think and talk about success in many different ways.
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  Speaker 3: At our heart and soul, we believe that there's not
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  Speaker 3: just one definition of success. We believe that you may
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: think success means one thing today, you may believe that
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  Speaker 3: it means something entirely different tomorrow, and then again the
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  Speaker 3: third day. That definition is perpetually shifting, and my definition
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have to look the same as your definition, and
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  Speaker 3: we want to have conversations with women where they can
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  Speaker 3: really define and redefine that idea for themselves and it
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have to look the same also as something that
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  Speaker 3: you know, someone in a nineteen fifty's boardroom determined that
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  Speaker 3: it had to look like once upon a time. So
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  Speaker 3: we want to have those conversations, but we want to
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  Speaker 3: back them up with resources and connections. So we have
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  Speaker 3: a website, girl boss dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Go check it out.
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  Speaker 3: We're on all of the social channels, we send email,
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  Speaker 3: we have two conferences a year called the girl Boss Rally,
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  Speaker 3: and we're building a community that I'm excited to talk
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  Speaker 3: more about later later.
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  Speaker 1: So you joined the team here at girl Boss about
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: nine months ago.
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  Speaker 3: Actually it's been over a year. I went to LA
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  Speaker 3: about nine months ago, but yeah, I've been here for
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  Speaker 3: a little over a year now.
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  Speaker 2: So were you working remotely for the first three months?
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  Speaker 2: I was? Was that super challenging? It really was.
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  Speaker 3: I walked into working remotely thinking it was going to
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  Speaker 3: be the best time of my life, and it was horrible.
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  Speaker 3: I think that there are two personalities of people who
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: work remotely, and one of those personalities is the one
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  Speaker 3: that is well suited to doing it. I'm of the
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: other personality wherein I was working in New York and
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: I was so excited to be up before the rest
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: of the team and get work done. But then once
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  Speaker 3: everyone had trickled into the office, I feel like there
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: is this sort of this weird sense of like you
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: don't want people to think you're not on and available
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  Speaker 3: just because they can't see you. So you're working remotely
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  Speaker 3: and you're hyper available, which means you don't get all
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: that much of the stuff on your to do list done,
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  Speaker 3: and then you end up working late and early. So
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  Speaker 3: it's like somehow when I was working remotely, I felt
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  Speaker 3: more tethered to my laptop and like my kitchen table
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  Speaker 3: than I have to any desk I've ever sat at
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  Speaker 3: in an office.
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  Speaker 1: And you've sat at some pretty impressive desks. So why
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: don't you tell me just a little bit about your
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: career background and then we can get just a little
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  Speaker 1: bit more personal.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So I graduated from college and sort of found my
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: way into an internship.
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  Speaker 2: Where did you go to college?
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  Speaker 3: I went to Princeton and I had done one media
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  Speaker 3: internship during the time I was there, sort of like
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  Speaker 3: used internships in college as like a process of elim nation,
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  Speaker 3: like how to figure out what you don't want to do.
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  Speaker 3: So I worked for nonprofit, I worked for a congressman.
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  Speaker 3: I worked for People magazine one summer.
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  Speaker 2: And I loved it. What did you major in?
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  Speaker 3: I majored in English. I had like minors and like
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  Speaker 3: American studies and like French language and literature. So all
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: the really useful stuff that like your parents know is
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: going to make that education super worthwhile. But no, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I think college for me was a luxury because it
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: was a level arts degree that taught me how to
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  Speaker 3: think and taught me how to learn and you know,
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  Speaker 3: be a perpetual student, and I think those things are
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  Speaker 3: absolutely all luxuries. It was an a vocational degree, so
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  Speaker 3: it didn't set me up to say, hey, this is
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  Speaker 3: what I definitely want to do. And when I looked
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  Speaker 3: around at all my peers, the things that they were
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  Speaker 3: all doing were going into banking, going into consulting, and
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  Speaker 3: going and going to grad school. So they were either
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  Speaker 3: going to law school or med school. And I didn't
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  Speaker 3: want to do any of those things. But it's tough
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  Speaker 3: to figure out what you want to do if there
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  Speaker 3: isn't like a clear, demonstrable path in front of you.
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  Speaker 3: So I interned people. I loved it. I was like, great,
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  Speaker 3: I had this one amazing internship. I'm going to go
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  Speaker 3: out to New York City and I'm going to find
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  Speaker 3: a job. And I was competing with all these people
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  Speaker 3: who had, you know, been like they'd gone to Columbia,
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  Speaker 3: they'd gone to NYU, they had like seven different internships
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  Speaker 3: under their belt. And I was like, oh, I'm like
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  Speaker 3: not totally qualified for these editorial assistant jobs that I'm
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  Speaker 3: applying to. Or maybe I am, but like I'm not
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  Speaker 3: as qualified as the people I'm competing against. So I
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  Speaker 3: took a paid internship at in Style. I paid like
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  Speaker 3: six dollars and twenty five cents an hour, and I
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  Speaker 3: did that job for under six just under six months.
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  Speaker 3: And that was how I made my way in. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I lied on my resume. I said I was living
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  Speaker 3: in New York already. I was like living in my parents'
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  Speaker 3: place in Atlanta over the summer. And they were like, great,
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  Speaker 3: can you start Monday? And I was like absolutely, And
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  Speaker 3: I backed my two suitcases and like flew to New
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: York that weekend and started my internship. Did you say
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  Speaker 3: I stayed at my friend Kate's.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Couch at least say you know, well, that was.
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  Speaker 3: The benefit of like having gone to college close by
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  Speaker 3: so many friends in the area, and they'd started there
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  Speaker 3: like banking and consulting jobs in July and this is August,
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  Speaker 3: so they were settled, which is fortunate. But that was
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  Speaker 3: how I got to New York. And then I did
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  Speaker 3: that job, and in style, I learned how to fact
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  Speaker 3: check and copy of it, and I worked on the
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: very glamorous table of contents and editor as letter pages.
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  Speaker 3: And then I got a freelance editorial assistant job at Ladies'
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  Speaker 3: Home Journal and more magazines so at their websites, and
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: that was great. I got really lucky because the senior
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Fashion of Beauty editor was going on attorney leave just
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: like a month after I got there, and they couldn't
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: afford maternity cover for her, so I got to fill it.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: And they paid you like a.
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  Speaker 3: Freelance editorialists did. Yeah, And I did the signing and
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: the editing, and I learned how to do things that
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: were like well above my pay grade. But it was great,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: and I actually I learned a lot of like hard
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: skills in that job, right. So when she came back,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: they were like, all right, maybe you want to move on,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: because like you have to go back to being an
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: EA now. So I did, and I moved on to
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Harper's Bazaar, and I was there for a little over
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: three years, and you know, with the assistant to the
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: executive editor and the managing editor, and I was also
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: after a little while, the online editor there, which entailed
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: updating the website twice a month.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: This isn't a time where I think, you know, front
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: magazines were still very much like the web is going
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: to cannibalize newsstand sales. We are not interested in that.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: So that was part, like that was my title, but
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: it wasn't really my whole job. It was just a
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: thing that I did. And I would, you know, rework
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: some of the stories from the book and grab some
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: images and very occasionally create something original, put it on
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a CD ROM and try to the fourteenth floor, or
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: someone would hardcode it on the website twice a month.
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  Speaker 3: So that was what that job was.
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  Speaker 1: And I think it's funny to point out, and if
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you didn't pick up on this, it's like some of
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the top websites. The amount that they published is absolutely insane.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, what was six years ago now. I remember
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: at my first job, I was at a company called
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Cafe Mom and they were publishing seventy to eighty times
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: daily on their blog. And at that time that was
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: like astronomical, like they were ahead of their time. And now,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I mean seventy to eighty times for some sites is
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: an absolute joke. I mean, that's nothing comparatively to someone
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: like say Bustle.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're making so much content every day, so
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: much content. So Bizarre was not doing that at the time.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I'm probably still not today, But that was that job,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: and I mean that was a job where I learned
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: from some of the best editors in the industry. Laura
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Brown was an editor there at the time, Christina O'Neil
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: who's now a WSJ magazine, Sarah Bailey who moved back
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: to the UK, and these were women who I learned
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: a lot from and just really understood how they managed writers,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: how they thought about stories, how they thought about like
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: big blue sky ideas and ran at aitorial meetings and
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: those were amazing things to learn. And Bizarre is also
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: the place where I built a real work ethic, you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: where like you understand that no matter how big or
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: small a project is, you get it done, and you
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: get it done now.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: So that was great. And a couple of years after,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: one of my bosses moved over to seventeen and it
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: was like, you should come here. We like, you can
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: have your own section, Like, you can have your own pages.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: You're like, I can be a real editor exactly, that's
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: really what's happened here.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Exactly. I can have bolines every month, not just one's
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: every blue moon. So that was really exciting. And I
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: moved over to seventeen and I was the associate lifestyle
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: editor there. I did that job for a while, I
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: took on the entertainment pages, and then eventually moved on
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: to run the website there, which was all amazing. And
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: at seventeen, I learned how to produce a print book.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: I understood like how to actually from inception to execution,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: produce pages and think about ideas and sections and packages.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And I learned how to, you know, interview celebrities. I
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: produced my first cover story there and Victoria Justice. You're like,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: come on, yeah, Victoria Justice, who Ariana Grande was like
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: the number two on her like Nickelodeon show. At the time,
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: it's so funny, like you see all these kids like
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: come through when you work at a place like seventeen,
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: and now they're like pop your superstars. It's funny to
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: think about them then. But yeah, So that was the
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: job at seventeen and I was there for a little
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: over four years. And after that I moved to a
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: refinery twenty nine when they were still really small. They
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: were about thirty five people, and I joined the company
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: as the deputy editor, and I was working under the
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: editor in chief, Christine Barbaric, who I consider like an
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: amazing mentor and sort of a friend today, but I
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: was definitely very intimidated by her when I like cold
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: emailed her. The company was honestly so small at the
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: time that the job listing was like listed on like
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: the front plate page of the blog with like her
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: personal or her like work email directly listed. So I
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: emailed her and was like, here is why you should
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: hire me.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And what was the name of the job description? Deputy editor.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so she emailed me next day and I eventually
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: got the job after a hand of different interviews, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I went in there and I was there for six years.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: So Refinery was a place where I learned how to
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: innovate and strategize and wear a bunch of different hats
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: and really build something because all my experience up until
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: that point had been at really established brands, and so
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Refinery was a place where I got to build alongside
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the founders and you know, grow and hire a really
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: small team into a really big team, which was really fun.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And you totally got to you know, hone in on
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: probably your managerial styles as well.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a place where I had the luxury
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: of learning, Okay, this is what a manager looks like
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: in my head based on some version of stereotypes that
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I've seen or things that I've been told or people
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: that have led teams that I've been on. But maybe
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: that's actually not my management style. And it took me
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: a while to grow into what I ended up figuring out. Okay,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Like the way that I lead is not through feet,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: not through you know, I have a quieter voice. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: naturally am interested in people's feelings and sort of what
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: makes them tick and why they do the kind of
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: work they do. And I realized in that experience in
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: building that team that those were actually my own strengths,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: those were my superhero strengths even, right, and those are
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: things that were going to make me a better leader
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: if I was able to listen to people and really
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: understand how what drove them to do their best work
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: and they felt supported by me and they felt like
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I was on their side, not just that they felt
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: like I was on their side, but I was actually
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: on their side and right doing good work together. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: so that was all amazing. And it was you know,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: trial by fire.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Did you feel when you were at refinery that it
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: was hard to always be that like empathetic on your
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: side leader when you had certain goals and content margins
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: and all these things that were also kind of you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: on the other side of your brain.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was That was something that it took me
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: a minute to figure out. And I think there are
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: probably people that I managed earlier on in my time
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: there that didn't get the best version of me. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I think that there are lessons that you just have
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: to learn by doing it wrong sometimes. Yeah, because what
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: I learned by the end of it was be as
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: honest as you can, right, Like, if you can listen
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: and you can be empathetic and you can understand where
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: someone is coming from. You can get their side of
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: the story, but then go back to them with the
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: real truth. Right. It doesn't help you if you're asking
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: me for a raise or a promotion or whatever it is,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: or you know, more headcount for your team, And I'm thinking, well,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: that's a reasonable argument, but actually, like they're like, the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: reality of my budget is X, and I can't give
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: you that. I can make something up and I can say, oh,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: I think about it and come back to you and
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: not give you that, or I can say, hey, look,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: this is where we are. This is a truth, but
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: like in six months, maybe we could be here. So like,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: let's try to hit this target and do this thing
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: so that we have the means to provide the resources
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: that you need versus like shielding people from things that
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I think I was more likely to shield people earlier
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: on rather than later, because I think people can take it.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's such a such an
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: important thing to learn, whether it's in business or whether
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it's in life. Honestly, it's just this idea that failing
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't need to always be something that's a negative experience,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and it's actually a question that I love to ask
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: on this podcast, what is one of your favorite failures? Like,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: do you look back on your career up to that
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: point anyway, and you can you identify a time where
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you were like, man, I really felt like the world
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: was falling apart around me.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: But that taught you so much?
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, there are big
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: moments of failure where it is truly like, oh my gosh,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: it's all like a disaster. But I actually think sometimes
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: the biggest lessons come from the moments where it's it's
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: smaller things, right, Like I'm thinking about the time I
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: spent at Bizarre in seventeen, and there are moments where,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: you know, my peers were moving into different jobs, they
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: were getting promoted, and I was like still an associate editor,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: and I was like, am I stagnating? Am I stuck here?
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Am I going to work here forever? And this was
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: you know, part of this was like in two thousand
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: and eight, when suddenly, like the economy looked very different
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: from what it had the year prior, and there was
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: a sense that we should all be grateful to be
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: in a job and not being laid off. So I
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: did that, and I think I had asked for promotions
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: and I'd asked for raises, but had been told like, Okay,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: we're on a hiring freeze, like we're not making these
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: shifts right now, like you just need to wait. And
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: I think part of me was after a little bit
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: of that, was like questioning myself and saying, is this
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: a failure not having progressed, not having advanced, having been
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: in the same job for this long, and sort of
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: just like not advocating for myself in a different way
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: where I saw that like other people were building brands
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: for themselves and doing things that felt like I felt
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: like I was falling behind. And I think that there
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: is something about that that feels profoundly like failing.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's really hard and it's hard
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: to look back at it now because I can say, oh,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: it all worked out. I feel really happy about where
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: I landed, So that's great, and my virtue of you know,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: the resolution of the story, like I can feel great
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: about that. But there is another version of that where like,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I think it's not right to look at failure that
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the lens of what happens next. I think it's more
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: about what you learn. The real value of those moments
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: where things are hard and where you doubt yourself is
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: the ability to come to terms with yourself and to say, okay,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I really do myself. I don't feel like every decision
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: that I make is right, and I'm not positive about
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: what happens next, But to be able to steal yourself
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: and to say, Okay, I'm going to keep going and
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do some research. I'm going to do
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: some diligence. I'm going to talk to a bunch of
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: people that you know, work in similar but different jobs,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna not work my way into a different role,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: and maybe I'm going to think about like moving into
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: a different like space, right because I think that that's
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: the other thing. Like when I left first I went
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: to Refinery twin nine, which is now a huge thing,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But when I got there, you know, people were like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: why would you take that job? Like you have like
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: a short thing here, like you have like you're at
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: a place it's known, Like that seems like a really
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: like wild, weird thing to do. And I did it
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: specifically because I was like, look, I'm not going to
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: get a deputy editor job. Somewhere else. Right, this is
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: like a huge jump for me, and I knew that
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: like moving from print to digital was going to be
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: the way to do it for me, right right, And
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: so I think that was like a realization that I
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: came to through moments of doubting myself, and I think.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Everybody needs them, Like without these moments of self doubt,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Like if everything's just smooth sailing all the time, you're
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: not gonna have the opportunity to learn as much and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: you might again like find these successes and I can
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: feel really rewarding, but without challenge, I feel like it's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: just such a critical component to becoming a better version personally. Okay,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: so you're at Refinery and this opportunity from girl Boss
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: kind of presents itself.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was at Refinery and I've been there
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: for six years. I was thinking about, like what's my
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: next step going to be? Media felt really hard, truthfully.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, I think I'm going to like
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: look for like a transition out, Like do I want
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: to like work in brand at like a bigger like corporation.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Do I want to do something else? Like I just
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: don't know about this industry. We're not going to make it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel that way all the time.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: So I was like really looking at other options, and
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I was like, maybe I'm in a consult like, but
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: I knew that like sort of I wanted to go
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: experience something else. And fortunately, at exactly that time, I
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: met Sophia who this was last January, who was like,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: let's just talk about this thing that I'm building. And
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: I was like, sure, why not, Like we'll see, And
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: so I met with her at the Addition in New
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: York and we had, like WERI spposed to have drinks
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: for like thirty minutes, We ended up you know, chatting
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: for like two and a half hours, and she told
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: me all about her vision for girl Boss and what
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: it could be and what the community already was, and
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: like what she felt like we could build here that
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: felt like some hybrid of what we had already learned
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: from media, but also something entirely different, something that was
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: really connected to this woman and to this audience in
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: community that's out there sort of building girl Boss. You know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: like there were three million instances of girl Boss a
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: year and a half maybe two years ago, there's eleven
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: point five million now. It's so wild to me how
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: it like sort of like grows like wildfire.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: But and when you say instances, what do you mean?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I mean people have used the hashtag girl boss that
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: sometimes on Instagram. Yeah, and it's that to me is
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: not a testament even to what we're doing. I think
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: what our opportunity is to meet them there and to
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: harness what they're doing. Right, Like, these are women who
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: are using the term girl boss and saying I own this.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: This is something that I can use and say about
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: myself to that makes me feel proud. This is something
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: that I can sort of use to talk about someone
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: else in my life that feels celebratory. And I think
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: that's incredible that that resonates with so many people. That's
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: a powerful thing. And the opportunity is to say, how
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: do we meet those women where they are? How do
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: we give than something that helps in advance, something that
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: takes that feeling and makes it into something tangible.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Right, right, And so when you have this conversation with her,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: how soon does the conversation over maybe a few cocktails
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: in New York City turn into an actual conversation about
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you coming on board the team and then soon enough
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a job offer.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: So that first conversation, you know, was about this is
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: what the job could be, and we talked about it
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: for that was in January. We talked about it for
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: a little over three months. I came out here, I
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: met the team, We spoke in the phone a handful
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: of times, like we were both doing our own diligence.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: It's a big move to leave a job to come
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: join a startup. I think, you know, the advice I
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: have always heard that I think is so true is
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: a job at a startup, you can do any amount
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: of diligence want to, but ultimately you're placing a bet
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: on a founder. So how much can you get to
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: know that person and figure out whether you trust the
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: work that they're going to do, and whether you feel
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: you can be compliments to each other and work together
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: in a way that's productive for both of you. So
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I think that's what we're probably both trying to feel out,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: and we took our time in that and officially I
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: came on board, you know, I officially accepted probably in April,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and came on board at the beginning of July.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Quick break from today's episode to give the sponsor Athletic
• 26:41
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• 26:45
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• 26:50
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• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I'm back here with Neha Gandhi. She's the editor in
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: chief and COO of Girl Boss. Okay, and so accept it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: In April, you did the work from home thing. You're
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: in New York and then you get up and move
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to LA And that's when I would say, effectively one
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of these hurdle moments happened junior career. Completely relocating is
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: something that frightens me to no end. I feel like
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I maybe I haven't stumbled upon the right opportunity that
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: was worth relocating for. And I'm sure you could probably
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: speak to that as well. But this idea of being
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a woman in her early thirties, picking up, starting a
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: new city, finding new friends, like I'm sure these were
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: all things that you were thinking about coming here to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Well, we made the decision to move. We have we
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: have like a chalkboard wall in our apartment in Brooklyn.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: You love with their husband?
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love my husband. And for four months it
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: was you know, filled with pros and cons of you know,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: la versus New York, and it had things that were
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: very real on the wall and also things that were like,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: am I going to lose my edge if I leave
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: New York?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Your edge?
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: My edge? Because I mean, look at me, stop so
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: ed so much edge, so much edge. But that was like,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: those were considerations, and I think at the end of
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: it it fell like an opportunity worth taking a flyer on,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: partially because there just aren't that many jobs in media
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: whereas there's a really strong brand that's already built, where
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: all the opportunity is there. The thing that's hardest is
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: to build a brand, and with Girl Boss, it was
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: already there, and I felt so excited to take the
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: leap and build strategy around it and to build a
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: business around it in partnership with Sophia and our president Ali,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and that was all really exciting to me. So it
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: really felt like a potential once in a lifetime opportunity.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: But the other part was that we were at the
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: right place in our lives, me and our husband to say, okay,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: we could move. But we also looked at each other
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: and said, also, don't we want to be the kind
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: of people who can pick up and move across the country.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Don't we want to be the kind of people who
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: can take a leap and have an adventure and not
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: always be so one thing. And I think the answer
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: for both of us was yeah, yes. But at the
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: same time, I think it's easy to get wrapped up
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: in sort of how amazing it's going to be, and
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: that like magic and excitement and do it and then
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: logistics and then you're doing it and you're moving, and
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: it's all amazing, and then you arrive And I got
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: here in September with a couple of suitcases, and the
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: moving vans were coming later, which is something I didn't realize.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: You know, you're moving vans leave and then they drive
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: across the country, but not immediately, so our stuff actually
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: didn't arrive until like eight weeks after it left. It
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: was literally the last day that they were still like
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: not in breach of contract. So there was that. But
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I arrive at this place in LA and I have
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: a hard time opening the door and it's one hundred
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: and five degrees and my husband's not with me, and
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: there was this sense of just like oh my gosh,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: like what's what did I sign up for? I can't
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: even open the door to his house. I can't get
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: a hold of the real estate agent, like what's going
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: to happen? But obviously I got inside. I turned on
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: the air conditioning, which we're very fortunate to have in LA,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: and I you know, sat like on a towel in
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: an empty house and was like, okay, cool, I'm here.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: And that was the beginning. But it's I think what
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I discounted all those times that I maybe was visiting
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Lan and it was like, it's so magical here. I'm
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: going to have such an amazing life. I'm going to
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: go to the farmer's market every weekend. I'm going to
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: make dinner for myself. I'm going to find more balance.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I'm going to work less. I'm gonna take these day
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: trips and become a person who hikes and all of
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: these other things. I think some of those things have done.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: I haven't done any hiking yet, but.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: You've been here for nine months. I know.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to make it your personal mission over the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: next month of time to go hiking and let me
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: know how it is. This is your action item. You
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: have thirty day to go on a hike. All right,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: makes the time deal. Okay, so you're you haven't been hiking, but.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: But I have done some really cool stuff and it's
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: been like some of it has been so amazing. I
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: think you know, there is something really special about the
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: quality of light that streams in your door or through
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: windows in LA that just is different, and that's amazing.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: I wake up earlier now that I live in LA
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: because partially I just like never totally got off of
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: the East Coast time. It's never a morning person before though,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: and now I go to bed at ten thirty and
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: I wake up between five thirty and six, and I
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: can work out in the morning, and when it's not
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: one hundred and three degrees outside, I can usually do
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: that outside, which is really nice.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And you said, like leaning into working out and maybe
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: even meditation and mindfulness a little bit really helped you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: get over this hurdle of being into a totally new city.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, because I think that those are the
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: things that feel so like forcefully positive. And they also
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: let me carve out time and space for myself, and
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: they helped me be less reactive. They let me be
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: more intentional, and they let me think through my feelings
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and my reactions in a way that's just healthier because
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I think on the flip side, like, yes, I was
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: working out, I was meditating, I was really enjoying my
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: mornings and like my morning coffee routine, and all those
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: things were all of the things that I thought they
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: were going to be. But at the same time, moving
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: to a new city is lonely, and I didn't properly
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I didn't properly credit that when I thought about what
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: it was going to be like when I loved here.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I really believed that, you know, within the first six
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: months I would have a community here, I would have
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: something that felt really similar to what I had back home.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: And I think it just doesn't happen that fast. I
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: also think it's just harder to make friends in your thirties.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: It's harder to make friends when you're married. There is
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: something that's just like a little bit different when you're
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: not dating, Like there is just something that's there. The
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: impetus to go out and meet people, I think is
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: a little.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Bit less, And I think it's so interesting to bring
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: this up. It's been a conversation that I've been having
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a lot with friends of mine and girlfriends and guys
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and all the people that it doesn't matter if you
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: are single and thirty and live in a fourth floor
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: walk up in New York City, or if you're married
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and you have a full time job. Everyone at different points,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: at one point or another, feels lonely. And I think
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: it's something that we don't openly talk about a lot
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: because it's almost like, especially in this age of social media,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you feel like like you shouldn't feel this way, Like
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to be constantly stimulated. You could
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: reach out at any given time using a hashtag. You
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: said eleven million plus instances of girl boss, Like there's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: are eleven million people that are talking about what you're
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: talking about. But still sometimes you go home at the
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: end of the day and you sit down and you
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: put your phone down and you're like, man, I feel
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: really lonely.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that there is taboo or there's
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: shame sometimes attached to that because it's almost I mean,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: there's something that like connects back to that old adage
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: of you know, only boring people get bored. Being lonely
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: is not being bored. But I think, at least for me,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: like I those two occupy the same space in my brain,
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: and there is something that my default assumption is like
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: if I'm lonely, then I'm not trying hard enough, which
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: isn't entirely fair. Maybe it's not.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Fair at all. I think it's because we're hard on ourselves.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: We're so hard on ourselves, and I mean especially I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: mean in this era of girl Bossom, for me being
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, it's like, if you're lonely, like, shouldn't you
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: be doing something else with your time to overcompensate or
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: compensate for this fact that, like you feel alone, Like
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: instead of focusing on the fact that you feel alone,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: maybe you should be editing another podcast, you should be
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: pitching another outlet, you should be coming up with the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: next great cover story, like all of these things that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: you feel like what I'm doing isn't enough, But it's
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: also equally as important to realize that and instead of
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: defaulting to this like constant grind culture, taking a second
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: to accept that which is difficult and then do something
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Right, or don't even do something about it right. I
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: think that there is something really powerful about leaning into
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: those moments where you feel alone and thinking about, you know,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: what does that mean, and just being a little bit
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: more reflective because my instinct is I'm always a problem solver.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: So if I feel alone or I feel something that,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: like I believe is negative, then my instinct is like,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: how can I solve this? How can I get past this?
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: How can I you know, make a new friend, do whatever,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: like host an event, like go to a party. But
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: sometimes the answer is and it goes back to what
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: I was talking about, like those moments where you feel
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: like you're failing, like The real value is not how
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: you get through it, which certainly is also valuable, but
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: the real value is like how do you experience it?
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: How do you learn something about yourself through that? Yeah,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: and that's really hard to do.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So how did you kind of after having this
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: understanding and like kind of taking a moment to sit
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: with yourself and be like, yeah, I'm a little lonely,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: what did you really do? Do you think that helped
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you kind of process that a little bit more.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: I So there are a couple of things. I think
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: I have started to meet some people, but I think
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I stopped putting so much pressure on myself to say
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: yes to every invitation. You know, when I first got here,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I was attending a lot of things that like I'm
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: probably never going to enjoy, but I was like, got
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: to say yes to everything, have to show up and like,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: you know, meet as many people as possible. And I
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: think that's valuable in some ways, but in other like
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: it's a certain point like you're just pushing yourself to
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: do something that you know you're not going to enjoy. Yeah.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: So I think giving myself permission to say no, right
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: just because you don't have a ton of friends. Doesn't
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: mean that you have to perpetually live outside of your
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: comfort zone. Sometimes you can just hang out at home
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: because that's what you want to do, right, So that's
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: been great. I think that you know, the stuff that
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: we were talking about before, like just getting a little
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: bit in touch with my body meditating.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you how do you meditate?
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: You like? I like guided meditations, although I did just
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: discover the other day that Alexa, like I was sending
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: a timer and she's like, I can set a fifteen
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: minute meditation with rainfall for you, And I was like, oh,
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: that's interesting, So I'm going to try that. But I
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: actually do like there's like a series of free guided
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: meditations on UCLA's website that are amazing. It's the right
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: sort of pace of like there's nothing too cheesy there, right,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: there's nothing like too disruptive because I like goodded meditation
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: because I don't want to be left completely alone to
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: wander into my own I'm so scared, so scared it
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: just like I start to do listing when I'm like
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: completely by myself, so I need someone to be like, no, no,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: you're doing this right now.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: But this is just making me reflect. I wrote a story.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I wrote a story a few months back about trying
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: to execute the perfect morning as we see on Instagram.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: So it's like you see these influences and they're having
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: a macha and they're meditating, and they're face masking, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: they've somehow like done a twelve minute crunch workout while
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: also simultaneously putting on the perfect outfit, and like their
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: mirror selfie looks better than any mirror selfie I've ever taken.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: And I was just very confused.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm going to try this, and
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I tried it. And I remember distinctly one morning while
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: listening to a Headspace meditation and I love Headspace, I
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: use it pretty religiously. I'm listening to a Headspace meditation
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm also simultaneously washing my face, and I'm like,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: this is just not the point. Like I was just
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: doing the meditation quote unquote, doing to check it off
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the morning to do list, and I was like, I
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: am not meant for this life all the time.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: When I do like to meditate, though, I actually love
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: to meditate at like four in the afternoon. I like
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: it at that time because I feel like generally that's
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: when I need a break. So what I'll do is
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I'll like make some tea, especially if I'm at a
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: we work space. I work out of a WEE workspace
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: a lot, and I'll make some tea and I'll go
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: and sit in one of the phone booths and I'll
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: do like a five to ten minute and then I'll
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: get up and I'll be like, all right, hour and
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: a half left in the gate, let's get this done.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: I love that. I actually think that there is value
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: to doing it twice in a day. Yeah, I do
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: think I need it in the morning because I still
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: have some bad habits that I haven't broken. I try
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: to sleep with my phone on airplane mode. I do
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: it sometimes. I don't do it other time times because
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: my instinct is like so strong to describe the phone
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: and first thing in the morning and like you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: not just email, but also like Twitter and like oh,
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: like now I'm like reading the news, and it's like
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's important to read the news in the morning.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: I like to be just like a little bit more
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: focused in like the channels I get it from. I
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: don't want to get my news from Twitter. If the
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: news right it's the like outrage or like it's like
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: a reaction rather.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Than a fact. Where do you go for your news?
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: I at the New York Times. I like, I like,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: I like the reporting. I think it's I get everything
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: that I need there. I really like the daily and
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: it feels like, oh, one stop shop where I can
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: feel informed about the facts, which is important.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I'm an up first kind of girl too. All podcasts.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: By the way, we're podcast wrapping here. You've obviously had
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: your fair share of time at some really impressive brands.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: What would you say is some of the best advice
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: that you have been given in your career.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: I think some of the best advice has been well.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: I had one boss who was like, you should always
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: be looking. I was like, what are you talking about.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: It's like you should take every single interview that comes
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: your way. And that was at a time where I
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, like, you only go on job interviews
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: when you're actively searching for a job. So I think
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: I still don't go on every job interview that comes
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: my way. That would feel like a full time job
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: in and of itself. But I think it showed me that, like,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: you have to be thinking a little bit more holistically
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: about your career rather than just the job you're doing today,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: which was really meaningful. Something else that I've had a
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: boss tell me is, you know, you don't it's never
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: going to be enough just to put your head down and.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Work really hard.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: And I really didn't know that, like when I first
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: started working and I started my first job, really believe
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: that if I, you know, I'd always been an overachiever.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: I'd always been like, probably to my detriment, like a
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: little bit like obsessed with grades, like like immigrant parents
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: who like put a lot of value on numbers and
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: grades and sort of like class rankings, and so that
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: all of those things are about how hard did you
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: work and what did you get done. I didn't think
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: that there was another element to it beyond that. So
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: I showed up at my first job and I was like, Okay, great,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna like work really hard and get these things done,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna stay late and I'm gonna be first in.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: And I think that those things all have value, and
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: work ethic means something it did then it does now
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I think it always will. But it's not enough. You
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: have to also be broadcasting the value of yourself and
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: you have to be willing to have like really clear
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: conversations that I think instinctively when I started out, felt
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: like really uncomfortable this idea of promoting yourself and saying,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: you know, here's my value. Here is why not just
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for a promotion because it's been eighteen months.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for a promotion because I have done X,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Y and Z things, And this is the value I
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: add to this business. And this is what I foresee
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: myself being able to do in a new role, or
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: in a promotion or with this raise, And this is
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: the additional value I'm going to add. And I'm the
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: only person who can do this as well as I
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: do or whatever that is. Like that ability to really
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: articulate your own value to a business was really foreign
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: to me. But even more importantly, and this is the
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: advice that I actually give everyone who reports to me
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: or doesn't and just happens by unsuspectingly. But beyond just
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: doing your job and talking about how great job you're
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: doing at it, look around, and especially in a startup,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: especially if you know you work in a place that's
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: relatively small, where people don't do hype or specialized work.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Look at the goals of the business, look at what's
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: getting done, and then look at the gaps and raise
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: your hand. Obviously not at the not to the detriment
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: of your own job. You have to show up and
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: you have to do the job that you're there to
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: do to the best of your ability to one hundred
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: and some percent every day. But there's usually time to say, Okay,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: I also see there's an opportunity here, and there's a
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: business need and I can contribute, and I have an idea,
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: and can I take that on and can I solve
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: this problem? Those are always the people that I have
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: been most excited to promote, because they are people that
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, not only are you just already doing
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: the job that you're asking for, but we're actually doing
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: something else. You're showing up in a way every day
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: where even to tell me how you add value to
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: the business, like I see it constantly, and I think
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: that that is really special and it's actually surprisingly rare
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: to see people who do that well.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I was saying to someone earlier today that I feel
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: like there's so much value at some point in your
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: life and having to be your own boss and being
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur whether or not you choose to go freelance
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: or it's just kind of thrust upon you in my
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: case the beautiful aspects of publishing. But what I will
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: say is is being an entrepreneur, you don't have the
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: opportunity to phone it in. I you know, throughout the
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: past year, throughout the past few years, have definitely had
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: my fair share of difficult times with some different personal stuff.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: And I think that on those days where all you
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: want to do is like be in your own bed
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and call your mom and have her like go to
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: target with you, which is a very real thing in
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: my life, I had to understand and come to terms
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: with the fact that, like, yeah, you deserve to have
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: that time for yourself, but you also need to put
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: your head down and do the work sometimes. And so
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: to not be able to phone it in and like
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: really realize, like what it takes to show up for
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: yourself every day is so special, and to then and
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: do that when you have someone that's giving you a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: steady paycheck and do it anyway, Like there's no bigger
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: value to a team than someone that's willing to truly
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: show up every single day and put their best foot forward.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Not because they feel like they have to, but because
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: they feel like they want to. And that's a sign
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: of a good job, right, Like, I'm sure when you
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: got into some of these jobs later on your career
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: and you felt like you had such a great value
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: to bring to the team, that you showed up in
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: probably a different way than maybe maybe back in the
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: day at you know, more being an assistant or an
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: editorial assistant.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: There definitely, and I think that it's easier later on
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: in your career because you just naturally have a little
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: bit more room when people trust that, you know, if
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: you say you can take on X thing, they're like, oh, well,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: you're a little bit more senior shore go ahead, versus
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: like I just I'm fresh out at school, Like I
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: would love to take on this challenge job.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna read the cover stories.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I got it. But I think that that's the thing, right, Like,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: it's not just I want to do more, it's there's
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: something that's not being done, there's a gap here. I've
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: identified it, and I think I can contribute. And I
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: think that that's something that anyone can do if you're
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: thoughtful about it. So I do think that that's really
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: powerful and I also think that that's how you build
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: great teams.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: It's not enough to have just one person on your
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: team who works that way, who really is motivated and
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: is there to do great work, because you always hear
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: you know, people are great teams are motivated certainly by compensation,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: and there are like certain basic things, but it's really
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: about like what's the value of my work? What kind
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: of freedom do I have to do something that feels
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: significant and meaningful, and like how much do people respect me?
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: So, if you can create an environment where the default
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: is respect and the opportunity is there for people to
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: raise their hand and do that, then if you hire
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: great people, then you can have a great team that
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: actually everyone's working in that way and holistically they're pushing
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: the ball forward even if you.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Know it's not in their zone totally.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: And I sat down with Fred Santarpia, he's the chief
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Digital officer at Conde Nast, and we sat down it
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: feels like ages ago. Back in December of last year,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: he was the third episode of Hurdle and in that
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: episode he talks about that one of his favorite things
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: to do as a leader is to hire people that
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: he thinks are better than him, and like this idea
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: that like they're the best that they do it should
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: probably intimidate you a little bit. And that means that
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: they're going to bring like this unrivaled value to your team.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: And I think that's such smart advice, and that's like
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the kind of advice that gets people like Fred, like
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: you to where they.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Are right now in their career.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: What I'd love to ask you is if you have
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: like one or two books that you love to give people.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: One book that I love to give people is Susan
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Orleans The b Fighter Chextter Makeup. It's a compilation of
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: her essays, I think, all from the New Yorker. It
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: has a personal sort of nostalgic value to me just
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: because I had a writing professor in school. Once we
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: gave it to me and like we were having like
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: a real conversation about how do you find your own voice?
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: And he gave me a couple of different books that
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: were like, look like listen, like read these people, like
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: listen to their voices as you're reading and really think
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: about how they've owned what voice means. And that was
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: a really powerful tool for me, and so I give
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: that Susan Orlayne book to a lot of young writers
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: that sort of come across my desk, whether that's you know,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: people who have worked for me or people who just
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: are looking for mentorship or whatever it is.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I have a follow up question for you.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: If you had to describe your voice now, how would
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you describe it?
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great question, man.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I love hearing that, you know.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: I think my voice probably is. I hope it's clear
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: and concise and direct, because that's just the table steaks
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: for good writing. I think it's probably a little bit earnest,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: but with a touch of humor. I try really hard
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: not to take myself and the work too seriously, but
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: I also tend to write about things that I feel
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: really sort of passionate and earnest about, and I think
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: that I'm always trying to strike that balance of like,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: how do you not get too preachy about this thing
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: that feels really serious? Yeah, And so that's usually where
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: my voice sits.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: When you look back on two different instances on your life.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: First instance, when you are young and just starting out
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: in your career and you got that call which was
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: like can you be there on Monday?
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: And then me be in.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: This transitional period of your life when you are moving
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to Los Angeles and uprooting everything you know. In these
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: hurdle moments that you've had, what do you think would
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: be a pretty resounding piece of advice that you would
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: offer to yourself at these times of adversity.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: I think the best advice I probably could have given
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: myself in those moments is to really experience it. When
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: things feel really hard, don't shut down, don't start making lists,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I mean short, make lists like that's obviously like how
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: I cope, But take a minute from the list making
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: and just experience it. Really think about why things are hard,
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: what's challenging, like, what is like, what are you actually experiencing?
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: Because I do think that those are the moments where
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: once you're through it, if you're through it, you learn
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: something about yourself, what you're made of, and what motivates you,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: makes you tick, and who you are. And if you're
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: not sort of really focusing on yourself and thinking about
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: what you're learning, not necessarily even focused on what you're learning,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: but like what you're experiencing and what you're feeling, you're
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: not going to get those takeaways. And I think that
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: those are the most powerful lessons life has to teach us.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Naha.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy we had the opportunity to sit down today.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I think we're good, amazing. Thank you.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Please take a moment to leave a quick review by
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: clicking the link with the description to this episode. We
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: dot us. Connect with the podcast on Instagram and Twitter
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: at Hurdle Podcast.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Neaha. Where do they find you?
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: They can find me on girlbass dot com, certainly on
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: Instagram Neha in town stolen from ernest Intown and Bunbury
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: in the city and same on Twitter.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Awesome, I'm at Emily Abodi. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: next time to the t