Latest / Daily Influence / 687. De-Escalate: Nervous System Leadership in a Divided World - With Doug Noll

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687. De-Escalate: Nervous System Leadership in a Divided World - With Doug Noll · Daily Influence

• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Daily Influence, your daily dose of positive influence.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Brian Smith founder of IA Business Advisors and co-author of the Iain team series.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Each day we share stories and insights to help you find be and build your influence in a positive and responsible way.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Greg Clino, partner at IE Business Advisors, and co-host of Daily Influence.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to follow, subscribe, and share Daily Influence with someone who could use a little extra positivity today.
• 0:39
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• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, Brian Smith here with the Iron Team series and your daily influence.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, oftentimes on our show, we talk a lot about the influence or how influence is constant.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's always on whether we tend it or not.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what happens when our emotions spike?
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of you may have
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: paid attention to one of our past episodes and our psychological safety.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we're gonna actually get, I think, a little bit deeper with somebody who can speak to this, even better than we have here at the IM team series.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because when a team member is angry, when a client is frustrated,
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: when there's political or economic pressure that seeps into our culture, especially the culture of our business now because it seems to be everywhere.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: In those moments, leadership is no longer theoretical.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's neurological and it's really important that we no longer make it theoretical.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So today's guest is someone who has tested influence in one of the most emotionally charged environments imaginable.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess today is Doug Noel.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a distinguished fellow of the International Academy of Mediators, co-founder of President of Peace and a K-Juck professor at Pepperdont University's Strauss Institute for Dispute Resolution.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, those of you in our area of influence who don't know Pepperdont is kind of an amazing school and one of the most beautiful campuses in our country, actually.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: But after 20 years as a commercial trial lawyer, Doug shifted from fighting conflict to transformative, including teaching emotional literacy inside maximum security prisons.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is the author of the best-selling book, D.S.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Gilly, how to call an angry person in 90 seconds or less, a neuroscience backed prison tested method to call him rage in seconds.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Doug, thank you so much for allowing us to have you on daily influence.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Brian, I am too.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've started your work and our work resonates so well together before we get started.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to tell everybody who's listening.
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give this show a five star on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening to it.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've already given my five star review.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The only way Brian's word gets out there is when listeners like you tell the world that this is valuable.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So please do it right now.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate that and I know Greg does also my co-host.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, when I was thinking about what kind of questions to ask while we talk today, the first one really hit me square in the side of the head actually, is you move from commercial trial a lot of piece making, and you know, what did you learn about conflict that most business leaders fundamentally misunderstand?
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make this as basic as I can.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Conflict is nothing more than two people's, if it's something it's a two person conflict.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing more than they're desired to be heard and validated.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they get into conflict because they don't have the ability to listen to and validate the feelings of the other person.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't matter what kind of an argument it is, or what the stakes are, or what the content of the conflict is, all it is is a deep desire to be heard and validated.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the secret to stopping all conflict immediately
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: is to ignore your own feelings, needing to the founder just to fire rationalize, explain, or maybe become counter-gressive and fight back, or the need to be right, which we've all engaged in, and learn how to listen another person into existence.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you master that skill, and we'll talk about how you do that, when you master that skill, you will never have a fighter argument again in your life, unless you want to.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that actually is a great segue because my next question was, you know, in business we often times tend to argue facts, but your works suggest emotions must be addressed first.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you just said that without saying it, maybe you can explain that a little deeper.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you feel that emotions need to be addressed first?
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: The moment that things get tense, even the slightest bit,
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: The centers of our brain that are associated with negative emotion gets stimulated and our threat status goes on.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: The moment our threat status goes on, our pre-final cortex is shut down.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we can't think.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cortisol levels go up, or our immune system is shut down, our digestive system is shut down.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And surface blood capillaries open up, part beating, creases, respiration, increases, and we're getting ready to fight.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And our brains cannot make the distinction between an insult in a business meeting and a saboteu tiger.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to react and exactly the same way.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Distopping fights and arguments from spiraling out of control is to deal with that fundamental neurological reaction that we all have.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really simple.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Simply say you feel, Brian, you're angry.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You feel disrespected.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't feel appreciative to support it.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're really unhappy about all of this.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it really pisses you off.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: done.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: With the brain scanning study show, is that when you do what I just did, those centers in the brain that are associated with negative emotion are inhibited.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at the same time, the part of the brain responsible for emotional self-regulation, the right central letter of pre-final cortex is activated.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: The whole process takes 9220 seconds.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's absolutely amazing how it works every single time without failure because our brains are hardwired.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every human brain on the planet is hardwired to do this.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just magical to watch it happen.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you had an opportunity to test this work inside one of the most violent women's prisons in the world.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do the prison yard teach you about human behavior that applies directly to business leadership teams or just teams in general with end business?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It taught me that it doesn't matter who you are as a human being.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can be a life in mate.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like those first 15 women we trained back in 2010 in the largest, most violent women's prison in the world.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: We taught them how to stop prison violence.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were in there because they had done bad things.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: and we changed them.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I should really say we taught them so they could change themselves.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the story, just those first stories coming out in that first year were mind boggling.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: These women would stop gang riots in five minutes and using our skills.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They would stop rapes, they would stop all kinds of violence.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was really just amazing to hear what they were able to do.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I learned was that if you can take somebody like that who's the lowest of the Lower North Society in an extraordinarily violent dark environment, and teach them how to do this,
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: anybody can learn how to do it.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You take that vice president who's a jerk, pussy cat.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you take that customer who pays a lot of money, but it's really hard to work with, pussy cat.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: They got nothing on the people I worked with in prison.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can learn to master these skills very quickly, and all of those difficulties go away.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: that, you know, having that context oftentimes is difficult for people to bridge, you know, because they don't really understand the environment that you just spoke about, but they do understand the VP or the customer who has a tremendous amount of motion.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: What surprised you the most about who learned these skills the fastest?
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: When we first walked into that women's prison, standing before us were 15 women, black white Asian Hispanic ages 35 to 60, all of them lifers or long-termers, some of them serving life without possibility parole, skepticism, anger, some stoicism, totally emotionally fat and curiosity.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: We started teaching them these skills in our prison of peace project, we always start with these listing skills.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: How to listen to a name emotions, you feel you are just the way I described it.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the first five weeks, I didn't think we were making any progress until we stepped in to the teaching conference when we were working one day.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And all of a sudden, these black thorns had turned into beautiful mountain roses.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had discovered their own humanity.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were joking.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were laughing.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were listening to each other.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were reflecting each other's feelings.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were excited.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they had story after story after story to share with us about how these skills had not only changed their lives, but changed the lives of all of the other women that they touched as well as their families outside of the prison walls.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I realized that all you do have to do is have a desire to learn, and you can master this stuff.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's no more difficult than learning how to write a bicycle, and everybody can learn it.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I became committed to teaching the world about these skills.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the things that also struck me was how your method sounds deceptively simple.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And why that hit me is because our own management methodology, which was built on the smart goals platform, to me is deceptively simple.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so yours,
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Resumates, because it's ignore the words, namely emotion, reflect them back.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've explained to us why that works neurologically.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why is it so hard for leaders to do it?
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think they struggle so much?
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, they haven't been taught how to do it.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a very new knowledge, right?
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The seminal study came out of Lieberman's lab at UCLA in 2007.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not even 20 years into this knowledge.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's number one.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not made mainstream.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, we've been trained how not to listen.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've been trained active listening, nonviolent communication.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: that all don't work, and there have work, never will work.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And number three, and I think the most important problem here is a cultural problem.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is that Western culture for over 25 hundred years has looked to the motions as being evil, wrong, as making you vulnerable, weak, in a masculinized, gender society, feminized, you're feminine, all wrong.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have this whole misguided philosophy around rationality.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is no such thing as rationality, Brian.
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are not rational beings.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody who tells you that has not read the science.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are emotional beings within ability every now and then to engage in deliberative thinking, which is not rationality.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: What this requires when you see this mindset, can you get this mindset and start understanding how we actually operate as human beings, what our operating system is?
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about telling what people to do.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not telling people what to do.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's nervous system leadership.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: How is my behavior?
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: How are my words?
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I model, affect the nervous systems on my team?
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: The nervous systems of my customers, the nervous systems of my vendors, the nervous systems of my community?
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you start thinking about that and thinking about nervous system leadership, which you've talked about before,
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: that everything we do is emotional, every decision we make, every behavior we engage in is an emotional decision.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So why not focus on where we are really at, which is at our emotions.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the simplest way to do that is to engage in half a labeling.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ignore the words, read the emotions, name the emotions, with the use statement, no ice statements.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's simple.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it changes everything, because it's the way we're hard word.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a lot of fear around this.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: fear of looking weak.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's an interesting study that came out in 2024 that's at 72% of all CEOs.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll not use empathy because they're afraid that it's going to make them weak.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yet there's another study earlier that came out in 2017 that said empathy is the number one determinant of leadership's success.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to make something very clear
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Empathy is the learned ability to listen to and name the emotions or the emotional experience of another person from that person's perspective.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you can do that, you are engaging in leadership empathy.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would very much agree with that.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: We actually have written a lot about what you just said.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: In all three of my books, we call out empathy in the exact way.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: that you just described it in, and my daughter who writes what to me, actually points that out in the forward of our first book, how it's one of the skills that she's glad that she was able to have evolved because of our work together.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's one of the superpowers of a leader I would think to put that in that context.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to ask you to, you know, maybe give a little bit of your secret sauce away and for our audience, but you know, if a leader or even just, you know, a team member is in a ball of a meeting frustrated employee and angry customer, you know, what does the first 90 seconds need to look like to get them on the right path.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: to bring that down beyond the first three to get it started.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's needed in the first 90 seconds is number one, recognizing that the person in the front of you is having an emotional moment.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that emotion is perfectly normal.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with it.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not chaotic.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not evil.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not wrong.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's normal human behavior.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: The second thing is to, with practice, and it doesn't think a lot of practice, frankly, I mean, I teach most people in about eight weeks how to do this.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is to learn how to, the reason we're ignoring the words is so that we don't get triggered by them.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't go into that threat status response.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you learn with practice and training to simply pay attention to the emotions.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you do that and name them, that's the very first thing that's going to come out of your mouth.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Man, you are really frustrated.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are really pissed off.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're angry.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You feel really disrespected.
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're worried and concerned.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're disgusted by what's going on here.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you do.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That first 90 seconds.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Four, four there with there are four, four relaxation responses.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, nodding at the head.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, some kind of verbal response like, yeah, or exactly.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number three, dropping of the shoulders.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number four, sigh of relief.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you got that out and the person's relaxed, you're done.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now you can go into problem solving.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So tell me how you think we should solve this problem.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: describe for more about what's going on here.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Open ended questions that give a agency to the person who's been really upset.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how we do it.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It comes with practice.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something that is easily
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can do it yourself.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a really good self-learner, you can pick up my book and or go to YouTube and look at all my videos or go to my website and pick up all the information I give about this stuff.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it will work, but most people need coaching because it sounds really weird in the beginning to tell somebody what they're feeling with the use statement.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's scary.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to overcome that fear.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: and you need some coaching and accountability to help you get it with the hump.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you get it with the hump and you see that it works, it becomes a self-affirming practice.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because every time you listen to somebody this way, they're going to thank you with profuse gratitude for taking the time to listen to you.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And all of a sudden, this just becomes your go-to skill, because it feels so good to listen another person into existence.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my advice to everybody listening or following along or watching is two things.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go back, listen to that segment.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: get the transcript, highlight it, cut it out, paste it, and go get Doug's book.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that there's a lot more to that practice than you're going to get out of just this, you know, 10, 15 minutes, and you can reinforce that through how he teaches through his book and his writing.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have time for one more question?
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, Brian.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I saved this one because of what's going on around us, and, you know, we are struggling, and it's really has become a divided world, and it is...
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: My opinion that de-escalation has become part of our individual responsible influence rather than manipulation.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we see a lot of manipulation.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you think, how do you think this does that for us?
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that once you master these skills, you can have a calm conversation with, for example,
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: never get upset and what my experience has been as a peace maker is that when we learn adolescent other people into existence and we let them tell their stories and we ask the right questions and then listen to them by reflecting their emotions.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: We learn something really important.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: What we learn is we have far more in common than we have
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: in positions of power, who feed off of fear, they feed off of difference, they feed off of us versus them, they feed off of making us enemies of each other.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not gonna be able to stop that, but what we can do at a community level and at a friendship level is we can listen to each other and we can ignore the noise coming from our state capitals or from Washington DC.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: and just listen, listen each other into existence, and we will connect us all.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great advice, and you all heard it again.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Our mantra here, one of them is listen to learn, and we live by that year at the I am team series.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna add to that, Brian, you listen to the learn, but also listen to validate.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about, this process is not about me and learning anything.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really about me listening to you to validate how you feel.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the difference.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Listening to learn is important.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Listening to validate is also important.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key distinction.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that distinction.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very important.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to, first of all, everybody, you know that?
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: down below, you can get all of Doug's contact information, reach out to him, go to his website, find his book, but Doug, do you want to share with everybody how they can do that?
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I actually, Brian created this webpage just for your audience on my website.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's for people who are listening to the Daily Influenced Podcast.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody else will be able to get there.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the way you get there is to type in URL,
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Doug, Noel, D-O-U-G-N-O-L-L.co.com, co slash influence, small I.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you do that, you'll be taken to a web page where you can get a whole ton of free resources off my website and from me, including you can order my books if you want to do that, or you can get it off Amazon.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in addition, if you want to DM me on LinkedIn, you just DM me influence.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I can send you the link and send you to the resource to get started.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am 75 years old.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: My life today is devoted to teaching as many people these skills that I possibly can.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I do a lot of free work.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I'm easily engaged in speaking and workshops and consulting and things like that, just like you do.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I am not motivated by service.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because this is a life changing transformative skill that can change all of us.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much, and thank you for creating that unique place for our listeners and the readers to go to anything else, any parting comments you'd like.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that if you have, if you're parent and you've got children, this skill will change your relationship with your children.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: adult children are a strange from their parents today.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's horrible statistic.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have worked with many many situations where parents have been a strange from their adult children.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a skill that brings people back together again.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a skill that if you start doing it with your three and four year olds, by the time they're at their academic level is measurably higher than their peers.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: because it helps their brain develop.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a skill that stops the IT tournaments.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a skill that builds trust, loyalty, psychological safety, and productivity on teams.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just can't overstate the importance of mastering this skill if you want to be a person of influence.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Paul Sunder, thank you so much.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what I'm going to leave you all with is, you know, authority can silence people.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: position can override people, but influence real influence, regulate some motion before it directs the aim here.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Doug's work reminds us that leadership is not about winning arguments.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's about calming nervous systems, so thinking can return.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, world defined by speed, volatility, polarization, the ability to de-escalate may be one of the most responsible forms of influence available to us.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Doug, I really thank you for reminding us that emotional literacy isn't solved.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It can be structural and to our daily influence, Westerners influence is always on.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: The question is, is when emotions rise, do you escalate?
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or do you stabilize?
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And until next time, stay intentional, stay mindful, and be responsible.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to talking to you again soon.