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Trademarking Passion in Business with Sahil Malhotra · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to the Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let's go.
• 0:31
  Speaker: Let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom Jackobs: Today, we're thrilled to introduce the star of strategy and the sultan of safeguarding.
• 0:42
  Tom Jackobs: Sahil Malhotra.
• 0:44
  Tom Jackobs: As the principal attorney at Drishti Law in Chicago, Sahil is dedicated to illuminating the path for established businesses and startups like a lighthouse for lost ships.
• 0:56
  Tom Jackobs: With a sharp focus on intellectual property and trademark matters, he's not just leading a law firm, he's cultivating a community of heart led businesses.
• 1:05
  Tom Jackobs: Get ready to dive into a delightful discussion about vision, values, and victory in the entrepreneurial space.
• 1:13
  Tom Jackobs: Sahil, welcome to the show.
• 1:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Thank you so much, Tom.
• 1:15
  Sahil Malhotra: That was a wonderful welcome.
• 1:17
  Sahil Malhotra: That's a heck of an intro.
• 1:21
  Tom Jackobs: Thanks.
• 1:21
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 1:22
  Sahil Malhotra: Okay.
• 1:22
  Tom Jackobs: But I'm really excited to have you on the show today and, and um, really dive in because we haven't had an attorney on the show yet, and I'm sure a lot of people are going, Heart led business, attorney, how is that really working?
• 1:36
  Tom Jackobs: So, yeah.
• 1:37
  Tom Jackobs: But before we dive into all of that, um, my first question is always, what's your definition of a heart led business?
• 1:44
  Sahil Malhotra: This is one of the questions that I was like really thinking about a lot when we were getting ready for this episode.
• 1:49
  Sahil Malhotra: So like, for me personally, Heartled business is obviously deeply connected to the purpose of what you do, right?
• 1:56
  Sahil Malhotra: It's not just about making a profit.
• 1:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Obviously you want to develop.
• 1:59
  Sahil Malhotra: A profitable business, but it's about feeling like you're making a meaningful difference, right?
• 2:04
  Sahil Malhotra: In my case, I wanted to create something where I felt like I was helping people in the most impactful way.
• 2:10
  Sahil Malhotra: So I work with mostly small businesses, owners, entrepreneurs dreamers, people like me who, decided to pursue their vision.
• 2:17
  Sahil Malhotra: And by the way, Drishti means vision or focused gaze and bring something unique into the world, right?
• 2:24
  Sahil Malhotra: There are people with a product or service that.
• 2:26
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, that they think only they can offer in a very distinct and incredibly fulfilling way to be part of the journey.
• 2:32
  Sahil Malhotra: So you know, emotions and empathy, I feel like that's something play a huge role in a heartland business mostly because I am helping people protect their intellectual property.
• 2:42
  Sahil Malhotra: That could be trademarks, which is your brand name or logo or slogan, your product packaging could be a copyright, could be a book you're writing, could be a song you've written, could be a song, there's audio recording, it could be anything like that.
• 2:54
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, whether it's a name for a new name for someone's auto repair shop, a logo for a bakery book, they've poured their soul into an industry secret that they are, industry secret secret that keeps, gives them that competitive edge.
• 3:08
  Sahil Malhotra: There's so much heart behind all of that.
• 3:11
  Sahil Malhotra: There's also an element of like understanding and breaking down barriers.
• 3:15
  Sahil Malhotra: People bring a lot of like communication styles.
• 3:17
  Sahil Malhotra: Emotions, even egos into the process and connecting them with listening and empathy is what I feel like defines a heart led business.
• 3:28
  Sahil Malhotra: And so like at my core, I'm like a really passionate person and I'm very passionate about what I do.
• 3:33
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm very passionate about what I'm, what I've built.
• 3:35
  Sahil Malhotra: And, I think passion, is probably what makes heart led, a business heart led and like, even attorneys.
• 3:43
  Sahil Malhotra: Even attorneys, they, they do have, they do have hearts.
• 3:47
  Sahil Malhotra: I, I would pull it out and show it to you right now, we do have hearts.
• 3:51
  Sahil Malhotra: And yeah, like some people work in mergers and acquisitions, some people work big law firm jobs, but for me, I really wanted to, be a part of growing a community and being part of like helping small businesses, like you said, entrepreneurs, startups, people who can't necessarily afford.
• 4:09
  Sahil Malhotra: Or like go to a big firm because I was in that place, three years ago where I didn't know where to turn to.
• 4:16
  Sahil Malhotra: And there were a lot of people, you were one of the people that I turned to in the initial phases of starting my business.
• 4:22
  Sahil Malhotra: Sometimes the passion also means going beyond what's expected.
• 4:26
  Sahil Malhotra: I've worked with public school teachers.
• 4:28
  Sahil Malhotra: I've worked with union workers, college students, providing extra assistance, which is usually beyond the scope of our agreements because I believe in protecting those individuals and their creations.
• 4:39
  Sahil Malhotra: And ultimately, like a heart led business is all about serving others in a way that is deeply meaningful and personal to you.
• 4:46
  Sahil Malhotra: And for me, there's nothing more rewarding than that.
• 4:50
  Tom Jackobs: I can definitely see the passion, hear the passion, um, with what, what you do.
• 4:55
  Tom Jackobs: And, when you said, protecting, their, their purpose and their passion behind the logo and the name.
• 5:02
  Tom Jackobs: And you know what, for every business owner out there, the name of their company, it's like a newborn baby.
• 5:09
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:09
  Tom Jackobs: That special secrete sauce that they have, that they want to trademark their, their framework or whatever it is, that's their baby.
• 5:17
  Tom Jackobs: And, that's, that's a huge part of their business.
• 5:20
  Tom Jackobs: And, and you're saving that for them.
• 5:21
  Sahil Malhotra: Because it's their baby, this is where some of the, maybe, Unemotional side of attorneys is where it helps, I feel like, and maybe and there's some friction where, where you have to communicate something like that in a different way to your client because, yeah, it's their baby.
• 5:41
  Sahil Malhotra: There have been many times I've had to tell clients, like, we can't move forward with this.
• 5:45
  Sahil Malhotra: And, more often than not, because my clients are not the types who have money to go to litigation, and I want to save them money in the future because right now if they're barely starting something that is new that they want it to be prosperous, they want it to grow, you want the least amount of headaches possible.
• 6:03
  Sahil Malhotra: And legal headaches are the, were some of the biggest headaches that you can deal with.
• 6:08
  Sahil Malhotra: And, so yeah, exactly.
• 6:10
  Sahil Malhotra: I, I might not be a big law firm, but it still costs money.
• 6:13
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Sahil Malhotra: But so yeah, there've been many times I've had to tell clients, like, okay, let's walk away from this one.
• 6:18
  Sahil Malhotra: And it's been hard conversations.
• 6:21
  Sahil Malhotra: Definitely very hard conversations to have with them, but there are times you also want to stand up for your client, it's it's all like, dependent on the situation, one of the big things, one of the main things you learn in law school is you get to answer a lot of questions by saying, it depends.
• 6:36
  Sahil Malhotra: Because you don't really know.
• 6:38
  Sahil Malhotra: I only know how much you provide to me and then I can only help you in the best way I think that you can grow.
• 6:45
  Sahil Malhotra: And if, and if you don't have a quarter of a million dollars, I tell people, if you don't have a quarter million dollars ready to burn for the litigation, just, eat the cost and, let's rebrand because in the long run, this is better for you.
• 6:57
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 6:58
  Tom Jackobs: This might be just a little bit off topic, but I'm certainly curious, is it the case of like a, a big dog that is being infringed upon or are is sometimes the big dog is infringing upon like the small startup.
• 7:13
  Sahil Malhotra: Nuances in almost everything.
• 7:15
  Sahil Malhotra: I mean, there's the blatant ones like the cannabis industry in the U.
• 7:18
  Sahil Malhotra: S.
• 7:19
  Sahil Malhotra: obviously has grown exponentially, but a lot of like cannabis products get inspiration from pop culture.
• 7:28
  Sahil Malhotra: So, so there are some blatant examples where you just shouldn't be doing that now that you're part of the legal industry.
• 7:33
  Sahil Malhotra: So someone were selling a brand of flower, cannabis flower with using Clint Eastwood's name.
• 7:39
  Sahil Malhotra: And Clint issued sue, obviously, and, and one without permission, so like Mike Tyson has his own brand of cannabis products, but that's because it's Mike Tyson's products.
• 7:48
  Sahil Malhotra: Willie Nelson too, Snoop Dogg, all these people, all these celebrities, I mean, like everybody's gotten into into that now, but but yeah, so like there, there, there are blatant examples where you obviously you don't, don't want to go ahead and do that.
• 8:01
  Sahil Malhotra: And I think the industry is just dealing with.
• 8:04
  Sahil Malhotra: Has been dealing with trying to become a part of legal society because they haven't been for so long, right?
• 8:10
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, and then then there are times where it's the big dog just trying to be monopolistic, just because someone's brand starts with the same letter as their first letter.
• 8:20
  Sahil Malhotra: They own monopoly over that letter, so But then, even then, there are times I'll tell the client, even in that scenario, do you want to fight it?
• 8:29
  Sahil Malhotra: You want to spend, even, do you want to spend like 10, just like fighting it, so, even in that scenario, I have to have this conversation where I have to be realistic with the client that it will be cheaper.
• 8:40
  Sahil Malhotra: For you to just file, do some research, file a new trademark instead of going to fight this, you could win, you could win, absolutely you could win, but, do you want to spend all that money?
• 8:51
  Sahil Malhotra: There's examples of those, like Stone Brewing, which is a really famous brewery out of San Diego, they fought, I can't remember, and I'm, please do not sue me, Coors or Bud Light.
• 9:02
  Sahil Malhotra: But Coors, this, this suit, Coors or Bud Light for using, um, A registered term for Stone's Stone's IPA, I remember.
• 9:11
  Sahil Malhotra: I can't remember the term specifically, but Stone won and Stone said they almost went bankrupt fighting this.
• 9:18
  Sahil Malhotra: And the thing is, Stone is a famous brewery.
• 9:21
  Sahil Malhotra: Stone is a really big brewery all across America.
• 9:24
  Sahil Malhotra: It's one of the premier, like, first, like, craft brew type organizations.
• 9:29
  Sahil Malhotra: And if that company almost went bankrupt.
• 9:31
  Tom Jackobs: oh,
• 9:32
  Sahil Malhotra: You have to think about how even a smaller business, how expensive it could really get if you're fighting these big dogs, even if you're in the right, because they will file motions.
• 9:41
  Sahil Malhotra: They'll, they will bury you in deposit.
• 9:44
  Sahil Malhotra: They will bury you in discovery.
• 9:45
  Sahil Malhotra: They'll do every path.
• 9:47
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm, the thing is, if I was their attorney, I'd be doing the same thing, but like, I'm not their attorney because I don't want to do that.
• 9:54
  Sahil Malhotra: And that's part of being a heart led business.
• 9:56
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, you pick your pick your battles too.
• 9:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Tom Jackobs: I heard of a, there was a teenager that started a company that was picking up dog doo doo and for neighbors.
• 10:08
  Tom Jackobs: he called it Call of Duty,
• 10:11
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 10:12
  Tom Jackobs: the game, Call of Duty,
• 10:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 10:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Of course.
• 10:15
  Tom Jackobs: obviously.
• 10:16
  Sahil Malhotra: Obviously.
• 10:17
  Tom Jackobs: I
• 10:17
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 10:18
  Tom Jackobs: bit too close
• 10:19
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 10:21
  Sahil Malhotra: I've seen, I mean, in India, I've seen so there's there's a Sardar Baksh, which is Starbucks.
• 10:28
  Sahil Malhotra: Sardar means, Sardar is, Sardar is what is what you call a it's like a sick person and literally instead of the logo of the mermaid and everything, it's the logo of a guy with a turban in the similar concept of the mermaid.
• 10:46
  Sahil Malhotra: And it's hilarious, and part of it is again in India.
• 10:49
  Sahil Malhotra: I mean, there's a guy in India who actually beat Burger King because he was using Burger King in India.
• 10:54
  Sahil Malhotra: Before Burger King was using Burger King in India.
• 10:57
  Sahil Malhotra: Because this is another thing, you have regional, you have regional rights.
• 11:00
  Sahil Malhotra: Right?
• 11:00
  Sahil Malhotra: And trademarks.
• 11:01
  Sahil Malhotra: So just because you're registered in America doesn't mean you have rights in India.
• 11:05
  Sahil Malhotra: And so like, that was like a lesson learned.
• 11:07
  Sahil Malhotra: That, that little guy still gets to have his Burger King, basically.
• 11:11
  Sahil Malhotra: So there, there are times little guys win.
• 11:14
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, is it flame broiled though?
• 11:16
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, I don't know if it's flame bro.
• 11:18
  Sahil Malhotra: I'll guarantee you it's not beef.
• 11:20
  Tom Jackobs: It's not beef, right?
• 11:21
  Tom Jackobs: Exactly All right.
• 11:23
  Tom Jackobs: Well, cool.
• 11:24
  Tom Jackobs: So what inspired you to start a heart led business?
• 11:29
  Sahil Malhotra: My My wife doesn't like it when I phrase it like this.
• 11:32
  Sahil Malhotra: It's a mix of desperation and then also just like not enjoying what you were doing.
• 11:36
  Sahil Malhotra: I say desperation because it was post law school, it was, COVID time, bar exam had been delayed multiple times.
• 11:43
  Sahil Malhotra: I went to law school knowing I wanted to be in I knew even more, I wanted to be more involved with trademarks when I started doing clinic work where we would provide pro bono services for small, again, small businesses, entrepreneurs, anybody, literally pro bono services because these things are expensive.
• 12:02
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, so, um, I remember providing those services and I intern at the USPTO as a clerk and everything.
• 12:09
  Sahil Malhotra: I knew that's what I wanted to do.
• 12:11
  Sahil Malhotra: I, for the longest time, I think I was just like nudged towards paths where others wanted me to go, almost like any other Indian kid, you probably push into medicine at some point, and then you just realize, oh, I hate this.
• 12:25
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't like this.
• 12:26
  Sahil Malhotra: And then sometimes it's too late in life when you think you've realized this.
• 12:29
  Sahil Malhotra: But I, now as an unconventional law school student, but in a way, I almost feel like I was even more ready than most of the people in law school.
• 12:38
  Sahil Malhotra: Most of the kids in law school are like 24, 25, 23 years old, straight out of some, even straight out of undergrad.
• 12:45
  Sahil Malhotra: I had like 10, 15 years of like, I bartended for eight years.
• 12:51
  Sahil Malhotra: I've done, I've been an accountant.
• 12:53
  Sahil Malhotra: I've held a lot of like odd jobs.
• 12:56
  Sahil Malhotra: I've been a server and I feel like almost everybody should be, should have a service industry job.
• 13:01
  Sahil Malhotra: There's just.
• 13:03
  Sahil Malhotra: I feel like it just teaches you a lot of things.
• 13:05
  Sahil Malhotra: And, I think I knew like around 2016 2015 that I wanted to go to law school.
• 13:12
  Sahil Malhotra: And I wanted to utilize some of my technical background.
• 13:14
  Sahil Malhotra: I wanted to utilize some of my creative interests.
• 13:18
  Sahil Malhotra: And that could only be fulfilled by AP.
• 13:21
  Sahil Malhotra: I didn't want to be a criminal attorney.
• 13:22
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't want to be a personal injury attorney mostly because, it sounds sad and depressing and God bless the people who do it.
• 13:29
  Sahil Malhotra: But I'm the, like I said, I'm an emotional, passionate person.
• 13:32
  Sahil Malhotra: I will bring that, home.
• 13:34
  Sahil Malhotra: I know I'll bring that home and it just wasn't for me.
• 13:37
  Sahil Malhotra: What What inspired me was my innate desire to like, protect what others are passionate about inform people.
• 13:47
  Sahil Malhotra: Like I can have a conversation with someone about politics, about a podcast that they might be into, about literally anything.
• 13:55
  Sahil Malhotra: And I think that's part of the bartending, get used to talking to people.
• 13:59
  Tom Jackobs: Yep.
• 14:00
  Sahil Malhotra: I think like, yeah, so like post COVID when like everything was, I did a consulting job for anti money laundering work and it was disgusting, it was boring.
• 14:08
  Sahil Malhotra: I did it for two months and I hated it.
• 14:10
  Sahil Malhotra: And I quit a week before I was getting married and told my wife, I'm going to start a law firm.
• 14:16
  Sahil Malhotra: She's very skeptical initially, very skeptical initially, which I don't blame her.
• 14:21
  Sahil Malhotra: That's a big leap to take
• 14:23
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Sahil Malhotra: someone who's never even ran a business before.
• 14:26
  Sahil Malhotra: I barely graduated law school, but I knew what I could provide.
• 14:30
  Sahil Malhotra: Because I learned service providing in in, um, law school when I was doing internships and when I was working at the clinic, I interacted with people, I just didn't know how to run a business.
• 14:42
  Sahil Malhotra: You don't even know, like, how do you establish a Google My Business page, like things like, things like that.
• 14:48
  Sahil Malhotra: People don't teach you that in law school.
• 14:50
  Sahil Malhotra: I think that's the hard part about starting a business.
• 14:53
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 14:53
  Sahil Malhotra: If anything, like part, like I said, part of it was desperation.
• 14:56
  Sahil Malhotra: Part of it, I knew what I wanted to do.
• 14:58
  Sahil Malhotra: I knew this was a space I wanted to be in because I knew this was the best way I could help people and especially bring out a good part of my creative side into it because coming up with new names, coming up with logos.
• 15:10
  Sahil Malhotra: Coming up with product designs and all these different things.
• 15:13
  Sahil Malhotra: Trademarks is not just about names.
• 15:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Tiffany has their Box, trademark.
• 15:17
  Sahil Malhotra: Coke's bottle is a registered trademark, um, iPhone design is a registered trademark, shoes, shoe designs are registered trademarks.
• 15:25
  Sahil Malhotra: So like, like, so there's so many things that people like, brand protection kind of gets into but a lot of it really like spoke to my creative side as well.
• 15:34
  Sahil Malhotra: I love getting involved in someone's, like, getting in their head and like, what do they want to evoke?
• 15:41
  Sahil Malhotra: Oh, you want to sell sweet and savory snacks.
• 15:43
  Sahil Malhotra: What are the feelings you want to evoke out of those sweet and savory snacks that you want to sell?
• 15:49
  Sahil Malhotra: What kind of sweet and savory snacks are you going to sell?
• 15:51
  Sahil Malhotra: So I'm going to think about, geographic descriptors.
• 15:53
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm going to look for, unique portmanteaus that might make the name sound like a little punchy.
• 15:59
  Sahil Malhotra: So like, if anything, that creative process.
• 16:03
  Sahil Malhotra: I think, like, being able to help someone start and create and protect something from the beginning, being part of that journey, I think that, being being raised in an Indian household where it's such a community based environment, sometimes too much.
• 16:20
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, but like a really community based environment.
• 16:23
  Sahil Malhotra: That's what I wanted to build.
• 16:25
  Sahil Malhotra: I didn't want to build to a senior partner at a law firm.
• 16:28
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't think it would have been that fulfilling.
• 16:30
  Sahil Malhotra: When I talk to my clients now and when like, and this is not to toot my own horn, when someone like messages me or like calls me out of the blue and just like, not out of the blue, we're talking about something, but like, and they'll just tell me something out of the blue, like, Oh my god, like, I'm so glad I reached out to you.
• 16:45
  Sahil Malhotra: You've been a blessing.
• 16:46
  Sahil Malhotra: Or like, I literally, I got a text from this lady two weeks ago, you've been a blessing in my life.
• 16:50
  Sahil Malhotra: And I was like, I just followed this lady's trademarks, like, like,
• 16:54
  Tom Jackobs: Well,
• 16:55
  Sahil Malhotra: Like,
• 16:55
  Tom Jackobs: you're taking care of her baby,
• 16:57
  Sahil Malhotra: yeah, like, thank you.
• 16:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, and so I feel like I am, and also as a South Asian person, I don't know if the numbers have been updated, but in the intellectual property attorney world, less than 1 percent of attorneys, sorry, not in the legal world in America, less than 1 percent of attorneys are South Asian.
• 17:16
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, wow.
• 17:17
  Sahil Malhotra: And when I go of these conferences where the big firms and the medium sized firms are setting, selling setting their, attorneys to attend these things, the decision makers are not necessarily, they don't necessarily look like me.
• 17:31
  Sahil Malhotra: If anything, I see a lot more diversity coming from European law firms than I do from the U.
• 17:35
  Sahil Malhotra: S.
• 17:36
  Sahil Malhotra: law firms, um, Almost never.
• 17:39
  Sahil Malhotra: I mean, let's not even talk about like Indian people.
• 17:41
  Sahil Malhotra: Let's like people of Indian descent.
• 17:43
  Sahil Malhotra: Let's talk about like, black people.
• 17:44
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, like I don't even see that as much at US law firms.
• 17:48
  Sahil Malhotra: So I feel like, I didn't, I didn't go out wanting to be the South Asian IP attorney.
• 17:55
  Sahil Malhotra: But in some way I've become that as well because a lot of South Asian people reach out to me.
• 17:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, I feel like that's a gap.
• 18:02
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm feeling in the industry, not to sound like crass about it, but like I feel like people do like approaching someone they can relate to.
• 18:11
  Sahil Malhotra: They can talk to, they can speak to, and we're a huge community in the U.
• 18:16
  Sahil Malhotra: S.
• 18:17
  Sahil Malhotra: and a decent portion of us can be business owners as well, can be creatives as well.
• 18:21
  Sahil Malhotra: So I feel like there's a, there's a gap not only economically that I'm feeling in the industry, I also feel like, being able to provide a very niche legal service to a community that is maybe overlooked.
• 18:34
  Sahil Malhotra: At times because not all of us are doctors, not all of us are doctors, not all of us are engineers, some of it.
• 18:41
  Sahil Malhotra: I mean, I know some of the some of the, kind of like weird traits that people put into words is like, gas stationers.
• 18:46
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, gas station is a business too.
• 18:48
  Sahil Malhotra: If they have a chain, a chain of gas stations and they provide a unique way of providing a gas station service that can be protected as well.
• 18:55
  Sahil Malhotra: Look at Buc-ee's.
• 18:56
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my
• 18:56
  Sahil Malhotra: So yeah, I think that's that's part of me.
• 18:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Go ahead.
• 19:00
  Sahil Malhotra: Speaking
• 19:00
  Tom Jackobs: of Buc-ee's, just for that know Buc-ee's in Texas.
• 19:05
  Sahil Malhotra: Now
• 19:05
  Tom Jackobs: did they trademark the clean bathroom?
• 19:07
  Sahil Malhotra: Well, first of all, they couldn't be able to trade they wouldn't be able to trademark a clean bathroom It would depend on how well depends on what sir a class of service.
• 19:14
  Sahil Malhotra: See this is what I said you learn it depends
• 19:16
  Tom Jackobs: The nuance.
• 19:17
  Sahil Malhotra: there depends on the category of goods and services, but if they're doing clean bathrooms for like let's say you know, a restaurant.
• 19:25
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't think you could do that because it's too generic and also descriptive as well.
• 19:30
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't want to get into the weeds of what is trademarkable or not now, but
• 19:34
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 19:34
  Sahil Malhotra: that, but yeah,
• 19:36
  Tom Jackobs: But that's like, that's like what
• 19:38
  Sahil Malhotra: that's a huge thing.
• 19:39
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah,
• 19:40
  Tom Jackobs: huge,
• 19:40
  Sahil Malhotra: absolutely.
• 19:41
  Tom Jackobs: a truck stop with a clean bathroom.
• 19:43
  Sahil Malhotra: Clean bathrooms.
• 19:44
  Sahil Malhotra: And I mean, also a truck stop where I can buy a smoker.
• 19:48
  Sahil Malhotra: And then also a Christmas sweater, and then, at the same time, I can get groceries if I need for the house, so like, it's everything, yeah.
• 19:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, brisket, breakfast breakfast brisket tacos a mile long line of different types of beef jerky, it's just insane, like, the first time I think I saw the line of different types of jerky, I just like, it's like, walk into heaven.
• 20:13
  Sahil Malhotra: I think in a day, just in 24 hours, you're probably interacting with at least like 45,000 brands.
• 20:19
  Sahil Malhotra: Easily.
• 20:20
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, you wake up within the first 15 minutes.
• 20:23
  Sahil Malhotra: You got your toothpaste, you got your toothbrush, you got your coffee, your milk, your, so many things, the type of fridge you have, the door hinges that are being made, that are, that is probably protected as a patent, the company probably has a trademark, so like, It's literally anything and everything that you are surrounded by.
• 20:46
  Sahil Malhotra: Someone, some at some point in time was like, let me, let me protect this in whatever ways I can outside the scope of just running a business.
• 20:54
  Sahil Malhotra: A lot of people don't realize that people think like, I'm going to make some money, then I'll protect my IP.
• 20:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Well, do I always tell people, do you wanna get sued now or do you wanna get sued later?
• 21:03
  Sahil Malhotra: Like that's, that's the question, and like,'cause, and that's not to be like, again, crass or anything, but it's just a reality when people ask, oh, could I be sued if I use this name?
• 21:12
  Sahil Malhotra: I was like, wow.
• 21:13
  Sahil Malhotra: I don't know.
• 21:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Possibly.
• 21:14
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, probably could if you don't do a search, if you don't figure out if somebody else is not using something similar to it.
• 21:20
  Sahil Malhotra: So, yeah.
• 21:22
  Tom Jackobs: So how have you balanced making a profit and still being heart led?
• 21:27
  Tom Jackobs: Cause I, know, the whole purpose of the show is, when we talk to heart led business owners, a lot of them are like, I just want to give all my stuff away.
• 21:35
  Tom Jackobs: I just want to help people.
• 21:36
  Tom Jackobs: And you're very passionate.
• 21:37
  Tom Jackobs: You're very passionate about helping people.
• 21:39
  Tom Jackobs: How do you balance that want and passion for helping people, but also still making money?
• 21:45
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Sahil Malhotra: No, I mean, it's definitely a learning curve, it's, it's not something you learn from day one.
• 21:51
  Sahil Malhotra: I feel like I'm still learning.
• 21:52
  Sahil Malhotra: I tell people all the time how I'm doing things right now might not be the way I'm doing things six months from now.
• 21:57
  Sahil Malhotra: That's very true.
• 21:59
  Sahil Malhotra: And that might be partially my ADHD, but partially it's also my desire to consistently improve and have less inefficiencies.
• 22:08
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, but, it's definitely a learning curve, like, there is a time where you feel desperate to, like, just, like, earn anything and you feel like undervaluing your services, and there is a hard line that you have to draw because you have to realize that like, okay, you gave this person a discount.
• 22:28
  Sahil Malhotra: Is this a discount that they're going to expect for the rest of the time?
• 22:31
  Sahil Malhotra: And then also when you're working creases with other things.
• 22:36
  Sahil Malhotra: Are you going to be able to provide them the same value of legal service?
• 22:40
  Sahil Malhotra: No, you're not.
• 22:41
  Sahil Malhotra: You're gonna, you're gonna, even if you don't think about it explicitly, you're going to subconsciously be like, that person only paid me this much money.
• 22:48
  Sahil Malhotra: This one is more important.
• 22:49
  Sahil Malhotra: Of course, you're going to give more importance to someone who gave you more money.
• 22:54
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, it's because there's a lot more value and a lot more tied to it as well.
• 22:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Also, you're getting paid what you're worth in that, and I think Undervaluing yourself, you're not only cheating yourself, you're cheating the client as well.
• 23:08
  Sahil Malhotra: You're providing them, you're providing them a low quality service.
• 23:12
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, you're providing them a service that's not, when we said earlier passionate, you're not going to be as passionate about that, because at the end of the day, the business still has to help you.
• 23:24
  Sahil Malhotra: Financially, you still have to pay your own bills outside of just the business bills.
• 23:27
  Sahil Malhotra: I think one of the main, some of the things people don't realize is like, yeah, I run a virtual business, but there's a lot of money still in it.
• 23:34
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, you're using legal tech tools, you're, you've had support staff, all these different things, cost money.
• 23:41
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, how do you think you found me?
• 23:43
  Sahil Malhotra: Because I was spending money.
• 23:45
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, right.
• 23:45
  Sahil Malhotra: You didn't, like you didn't find me because like, you just did a little search like, yeah, you did a little search and then I have spent money to make sure I come up on that search, so I think part of it really is like, Being honest with yourself, are you going to be able to provide the same value of service that you would to someone else?
• 24:06
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, there will be times you will provide discounts or whatever, especially, if it's like in the South Asian community, whenever someone reaches out to me, more often I was like, Salve! Discount.
• 24:17
  Sahil Malhotra: Indian.
• 24:17
  Sahil Malhotra: Indian.
• 24:18
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, come on.
• 24:19
  Sahil Malhotra: We're from the same area.
• 24:20
  Sahil Malhotra: Discount.
• 24:21
  Tom Jackobs: Discount.
• 24:22
  Sahil Malhotra: And then, like, and like, there are times, like, yeah.
• 24:26
  Sahil Malhotra: With my community people, there's a soft spot.
• 24:28
  Sahil Malhotra: Absolutely.
• 24:29
  Sahil Malhotra: There's a soft spot for me.
• 24:31
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, because I, I feel this responsibility.
• 24:36
  Sahil Malhotra: And part of that is just in that part of that is just good old guilt.
• 24:40
  Sahil Malhotra: But part of that is like really you want to feel like you're helping your community because there's not as many of us.
• 24:47
  Sahil Malhotra: Um, but even with that, like, are you gonna be, are you going to be honest and then transparent with the way you're going to provide the service to this person?
• 24:58
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, you can provide them a discount, but like are you going to value the work you're doing for them?
• 25:02
  Sahil Malhotra: No, you're not going to value the work as much.
• 25:05
  Sahil Malhotra: It's, there have been times where I've undervalued something and gotten paid less specifically with one client I remember as a litigation thing and I was just really passionate about what they were doing, um, and mostly because it was a, it was a person of color, woman led business in the construction space.
• 25:26
  Sahil Malhotra: Okay.
• 25:27
  Sahil Malhotra: And I was like, that's amazing.
• 25:30
  Tom Jackobs: That's
• 25:31
  Sahil Malhotra: insane.
• 25:31
  Sahil Malhotra: And I wanted to help her protect, like her trademark and everything.
• 25:35
  Sahil Malhotra: She was in litigation with this huge, insane international construction conglomerate.
• 25:41
  Sahil Malhotra: Like a revenue of over 20 billion type deal, and like, to them, it's nothing to them she's a fly.
• 25:49
  Sahil Malhotra: And I tried my best to convince her.
• 25:50
  Sahil Malhotra: I remember to change her name, not go through with it, all those things.
• 25:54
  Sahil Malhotra: And she just didn't want to, she wanted to fight it.
• 25:56
  Sahil Malhotra: And you know what, my client wants to fight it.
• 25:58
  Sahil Malhotra: I'll fight it.
• 25:59
  Sahil Malhotra: But I undervalued.
• 26:01
  Sahil Malhotra: I didn't charge her as much.
• 26:02
  Sahil Malhotra: I was emotionally connected too much to wanting to help her instead of thinking about myself.
• 26:10
  Sahil Malhotra: You have to realize the business is not just about helping others.
• 26:14
  Sahil Malhotra: The business is also about helping yourself, your family.
• 26:17
  Sahil Malhotra: You have community support.
• 26:19
  Sahil Malhotra: You have your house to take care of as well.
• 26:22
  Sahil Malhotra: Although, yes, doctors go to go to help patients.
• 26:27
  Sahil Malhotra: But God, like, medical school is expensive,
• 26:30
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 26:30
  Sahil Malhotra: It's not cheap.
• 26:31
  Sahil Malhotra: Law school is expensive.
• 26:32
  Sahil Malhotra: It costs half a million dollars in America to go to law school, so, so like, we have to, it is ridiculous, that's a whole nother podcast we can do.
• 26:41
  Sahil Malhotra: But yeah, so like it is ridiculous.
• 26:43
  Sahil Malhotra: And be honest with yourself.
• 26:44
  Sahil Malhotra: Respect yourself.
• 26:45
  Sahil Malhotra: I think a lot of times we don't, we don't like, there's not a lot of self compassion.
• 26:51
  Sahil Malhotra: People lack self compassion.
• 26:53
  Sahil Malhotra: People tend to be harder on themselves than they do, like, than they need to.
• 26:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Instead of recognizing that it might just be a situation that, that is kind of like, that you can alleviate in other ways.
• 27:07
  Sahil Malhotra: And I feel like that's part of it as well, is figuring out, um, figuring out how to provide, like, Good services is going to take a long time and it's not something you're going to learn from the get go.
• 27:22
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm still learning, there are times I'm still learning.
• 27:25
  Sahil Malhotra: But, but yeah, like you just undervaluing yourself is not only hurting the client, it's hurting yourself as well.
• 27:31
  Sahil Malhotra: It's hurting your business.
• 27:32
  Sahil Malhotra: You're not going to be able to help more people in the future if you just fail your business right now.
• 27:37
  Sahil Malhotra: Like what's the point of helping this one person if six months from now my business is shut down.
• 27:41
  Tom Jackobs: That's right.
• 27:42
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Tom Jackobs: Such a good lesson.
• 27:44
  Tom Jackobs: And, I've had a couple of guests repeat that.
• 27:47
  Tom Jackobs: And every time we fly, we get that lesson as well.
• 27:50
  Tom Jackobs: Put your oxygen mask on first before helping somebody else.
• 27:54
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Tom Jackobs: A lot of people think it's selfish.
• 27:57
  Tom Jackobs: I don't think it's selfish at all.
• 27:58
  Tom Jackobs: Because like, like you said, if you're not in business now, you're not helping anybody.
• 28:02
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Tom Jackobs: Almost a duty and obligation to charge what you're worth.
• 28:06
  Sahil Malhotra: I Have like every year I have this built out separate budget now, like starting this year was a thing, but from built out separate budget where I'm like, okay, I can take on this much of pro bono or reduced cost work.
• 28:20
  Sahil Malhotra: And like, where, where I, I feel like I can provide this level.
• 28:24
  Sahil Malhotra: And then once I hit that, then it's a judgment call.
• 28:28
  Sahil Malhotra: More often than not, it's just like, okay, I can't do this financially.
• 28:30
  Sahil Malhotra: It doesn't make sense.
• 28:32
  Sahil Malhotra: It doesn't necessarily make sense, I mean, I can't pay the bills, I have support staff to pay too, it's not, yeah, I want to help Thais, but my support staff also needs to get paid as well, they have bills to pay, so it's not just I think people also don't realize in the first two years, two and a half years, I didn't take any money.
• 28:49
  Sahil Malhotra: Out of the business, my support staff or they were making more money off the business than I was.
• 28:55
  Sahil Malhotra: And everything goes back in and even now, 80 percent of it goes back in.
• 28:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Right.
• 29:00
  Sahil Malhotra: And even now what I take out is very minimal, but I'm blessed to be in a position three years later that I can take some money out now, but yeah, it's not like you said, and like most of the problems, it's not something that happens overnight.
• 29:11
  Sahil Malhotra: There's plenty of times you will fail, and I don't, I think the fear of failure is what actually causes people to fail more than anything else because failure is just going to happen.
• 29:25
  Sahil Malhotra: It's, you're not going to be perfect from day one.
• 29:27
  Sahil Malhotra: I, I remember telling one of my mentors about this specific client who was being difficult about not moving away from litigation, also not paying me.
• 29:36
  Sahil Malhotra: And, and my, my mentor, he just starts laughing on the phone because he's like, welcome to the industry, that type of deal.
• 29:43
  Sahil Malhotra: He's like, this is good that you're learning this now instead of three years later.
• 29:48
  Sahil Malhotra: So yeah, I fast tracked a lot of things.
• 29:51
  Sahil Malhotra: I started a business that more often than not, a person a year away from law school wouldn't start.
• 29:58
  Sahil Malhotra: But I think I've learned a lot of lessons not even think, I know I've learned a lot of lessons that I know there are attorneys who will never learn because they've never done this kind of business development.
• 30:09
  Sahil Malhotra: They've never interacted with clients like I do.
• 30:11
  Sahil Malhotra: They've never done, in person activities at conferences like I do.
• 30:15
  Sahil Malhotra: And that's fine.
• 30:16
  Sahil Malhotra: Most attorneys are chill with just, sitting on the desk, drafting, researching.
• 30:21
  Sahil Malhotra: That's fine, but I genuinely enjoy this aspect of the business.
• 30:26
  Sahil Malhotra: I didn't think I would, but I enjoy communicating, engaging with people, meeting people from different parts of the world, meeting attorneys from different parts of the world.
• 30:35
  Sahil Malhotra: That's one of the biggest blessings of doing this, is like, just being able to run into a different type of person.
• 30:41
  Sahil Malhotra: You think you've met all kinds of people, and then you meet a new one, that's probably one of the biggest blessings, because it gives you perspective.
• 30:47
  Sahil Malhotra: Right?
• 30:47
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, you live in your own bubble all the time, and it gives you perspective.
• 30:52
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, that's part of it as well.
• 30:53
  Sahil Malhotra: That's why I also said service industry jobs, they should be key.
• 30:56
  Sahil Malhotra: It should be almost, that should be like the requirement.
• 30:59
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, even if it's not like, military service, service industry jobs should be mandatory for people.
• 31:05
  Sahil Malhotra: To learn some manners, at least.
• 31:09
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, well, I don't know.
• 31:11
  Tom Jackobs: I worked at McDonald's in high school.
• 31:14
  Tom Jackobs: So, I don't know if I learned how to flip a burger really good, but manners maybe not in some ways, but
• 31:21
  Sahil Malhotra: I mean, no, I think if you're interacting with people, that's another scenario.
• 31:25
  Sahil Malhotra: In different people.
• 31:26
  Tom Jackobs: yeah.
• 31:26
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah, different kinds of person.
• 31:28
  Sahil Malhotra: Like, when you're bartending, and then also when you're serving at a restaurant, you're meeting a lot of different people, and, and like, there will be, you also get to learn, people will be cruel sometimes, and you just have to have to roll with it.
• 31:40
  Tom Jackobs: That's cool.
• 31:41
  Tom Jackobs: Well, Sahil, this has been just a fantastic conversation today.
• 31:46
  Tom Jackobs: And, um, how can the listeners learn a little bit more about your law firm and what you can do for them?
• 31:53
  Sahil Malhotra: Absolutely.
• 31:53
  Sahil Malhotra: If anybody wants to learn a little bit more about intellectual property, you can, or even just need some kind of assistance in their small business, I do some small business consulting as well.
• 32:05
  Sahil Malhotra: They can reach out to me at drishtiLaw.com, that is D R I S H T I Law dot com.
• 32:12
  Sahil Malhotra: On Instagram they can find me at Drishti underscore Law, they can find me on TikTok, you can find me on YouTube you can find me on Twitter as well if that's, that's your thing.
• 32:22
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm not calling it X.
• 32:23
  Tom Jackobs: Good.
• 32:24
  Sahil Malhotra: You know.
• 32:26
  Sahil Malhotra: But if that's your thing, you can find me on Twitter as well, Sahil Malhotra IP.
• 32:30
  Sahil Malhotra: If you wanna reach out and ask a few questions, my email is sahil, that's S A H I L at DrishtiLaw.
• 32:37
  Sahil Malhotra: com yeah, I, I would love to connect with you.
• 32:40
  Sahil Malhotra: If you just have just questions, you ever want like a second opinion that you've already talked to an IP attorney and you want a second opinion from someone, I'm always open for that kind of conversation.
• 32:48
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna trash your attorney.
• 32:51
  Sahil Malhotra: I'm just gonna tell you.
• 32:53
  Sahil Malhotra: How I would do it.
• 32:55
  Sahil Malhotra: And and, and more often than not, most attorneys, I, I feel like most attorneys in my space are pretty honest and well respected individuals because they themselves are small businesses, I like to tell, I like to very much tell that to people.
• 33:08
  Sahil Malhotra: But yeah, you can find me on all those spaces or you can call the office at 773 4311714.
• 33:14
  Tom Jackobs: Alright! Well, Sahil, thank you so much for being on the show today, I really appreciate it, and wish you all the best of luck as you continue to thrive as a heart led business as well.
• 33:27
  Sahil Malhotra: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Sahil Malhotra: Thank you so much, Tom.
• 33:29
  Sahil Malhotra: I really appreciate it.
• 33:30
  Sahil Malhotra: You invited me to the show and this is, this is generally a great conversation.
• 33:35
  Tom Jackobs: It was a lot of fun.
• 33:36
  Tom Jackobs: And thank you listeners for watching the show today.
• 33:38
  Tom Jackobs: And we really appreciate it.
• 33:40
  Tom Jackobs: And make sure you're checking out everything that Sahil is doing.
• 33:43
  Tom Jackobs: And we're going to provide all of those links down in the show notes.
• 33:45
  Tom Jackobs: So check that out down in the show notes.
• 33:47
  Tom Jackobs: And take them up on that offer to run something, buy them.
• 33:51
  Tom Jackobs: Because you never know.
• 33:52
  Tom Jackobs: That one idea might be that next idea that gives you that million dollar business.
• 33:57
  Tom Jackobs: So, and if you could do me one solid favor, and that is to share this show with a friend or family member that could use the advice that was shared, that would really help us grow the show as well.
• 34:07
  Tom Jackobs: And until next time, lead with your heart.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.