Latest / Diogenes Club / Diogenes Club | E29 - Parent Talk on Bullying and AI with Ashleigh

Transcript

Diogenes Club | E29 - Parent Talk on Bullying and AI with Ashleigh · Diogenes Club

0:00
[music]
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Good afternoon, everyone.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: It's officially noon, just about here now, too.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So good afternoon.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Good morning if you're on the West Coast or anywhere earlier than Central or later
0:48
SPEAKER_00: than Central Time.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm Nick Paro, not your dad, not joined by Dr. Eric Lulove today for the Diogenes Club.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: However, I'm joined by Ashley Aloran.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Ashley, it's good to have you on with me.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: It's good to see you again.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there you are.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Now I can hear you again.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: It's good to have you on.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: For anyone who might not know you,
1:11
SPEAKER_00: can you introduce yourself real quick to say hi to the audience?
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: I think many of you may know me if you follow Nick a lot, which I'm sure that you do.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: I comment a lot in the chat.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: So a lot.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: You are one of our prolific speakers in the audience.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I can say that, yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I have a lot to say.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, yeah, so, you know, it's good to meet everyone.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not your mom, but I am a mom.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: A little segue into that.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I just,
1:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Eric needed a fill-in and asked me to do so, so I'm playing Goldilocks, and yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate it.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for jumping on with me today.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Eric's busy.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: He's in a hearing right now for...
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Medical stuff,
2:04
SPEAKER_00: and it's boring,
2:06
SPEAKER_00: and he has nine pages of testimony,
2:11
SPEAKER_00: and just hearing about it makes my brain hurt,
2:18
SPEAKER_00: and it's something I'm glad I don't have to do.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very dry, but it's...
2:24
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, not that it's dry, but to him, I mean, it's important to sell this stuff.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, irregardless.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Irregardless.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: It's good to have you here, and I'm glad everyone, you made it with us today.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: I know we're starting a little bit late, but that's okay.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: If there's not a tech issue, it's not really alive, and so we've got to have some
2:45
SPEAKER_01: sort of issue.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Can I ask?
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Can I ask, is there any way, do we see the chat when we're on this or no?
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me send you here.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Are you on a, you're on a computer or?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm on a laptop because I got, yes, I've been told my phone sucks when I try to do these.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I sent you in our private chat is the link for the Substack chat
3:10
SPEAKER_00: so you can follow along and join in on the conversation because it's not really
3:14
SPEAKER_00: a live conversation without Ashley in it too.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's me.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to see if anyone had any.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: You just private messaged me.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Hi, you got to click that link, open it in a new tab and or on your phone.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: Good.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't need the chat.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't need it.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Fuck it.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: We'll do it live today.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: So today we were
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Obviously is a different episode because Doc Eric's not here.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: But I asked Ashley before the show what she was really passionate about for interests.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about AI and bullying from a parent's perspective and
4:07
SPEAKER_00: from what we are seeing and experiencing either in our kids' lives or kids
4:14
SPEAKER_00: that we've heard about or And so if you all have any questions in the chat,
4:20
SPEAKER_00: please put them out there.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: If you have any experiences, please put them out there if you're comfortable with it.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: And I am happy to respond.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: I know Ashley doesn't have the chat up,
4:29
SPEAKER_00: but I am happy to respond and make sure that we pull questions from the chat
4:33
SPEAKER_00: so people can be seen and heard throughout that.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Ashley,
4:38
SPEAKER_00: let's get into this conversation a little bit because we're both parents here
4:42
SPEAKER_00: and we both We've got kids who are probably different ages from each other,
4:49
SPEAKER_00: but our children are all now being exposed to AI and new types of online bullying or
5:00
SPEAKER_00: the potential for online bullying.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And we wanted to have a conversation about it from a parent perspective
5:07
SPEAKER_00: on things we can do, ways that we can help engage with our kids.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And ensure that this type of bullying doesn't become a long standing prolific issue.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, honestly, my my kids aren't of that age yet.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they play Roblox and.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I've turned the chats off because.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, my son Landon will like.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't chat like,
5:37
SPEAKER_01: but he's like,
5:38
SPEAKER_01: if he dies,
5:39
SPEAKER_01: like he,
5:40
SPEAKER_01: there's certain things he says that he would probably end up sounding like a bully
5:43
SPEAKER_01: in the chat,
5:43
SPEAKER_01: but he's not like, it's just, you know, he's just mad because he died or whatever.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm more interested to hear this.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know how to manage this.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: And to be quite honest,
5:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't think if anyone says they know how to manage this, they're lying.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, to be honest, right?
6:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and we're both just kind of no bullshit.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know how we can raise our kids to be aware of things,
6:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:17
SPEAKER_01: and to not say, you know, and I, you know, anything that's online can, it's forever.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: You know,
6:23
SPEAKER_01: I think that's another reason why I'm so hesitant with a lot of things
6:29
SPEAKER_01: and why I'm hesitant to do this because
6:34
SPEAKER_01: people It's an interesting thing we think of
6:38
SPEAKER_01: as an industry because it's,
6:41
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:41
SPEAKER_01: but it's been my experience and I went to high school,
6:46
SPEAKER_01: so I remember, but, you know, people, they, you know, they like to target.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: It's hard doing something like that.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: And I am afraid of it because I just,
7:00
SPEAKER_01: It invites you sometimes into this world where once you are on there,
7:05
SPEAKER_01: you become almost public property in a certain way with a lot of things.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And somewhat off topic,
7:14
SPEAKER_01: not off topic,
7:14
SPEAKER_01: but last night, Bill Gates, who I'm not a fan of, but he wrote this memo, right?
7:21
SPEAKER_01: He's trying, I think, to do a PR pitch to try to help his image from being a dirty douchebag.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: He's
7:37
SPEAKER_01: trying to voice his concerns about AI.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: Did you happen to see that memo at all?
7:42
SPEAKER_00: No, but it sounds like something he'd say.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Musk has been saying this as well.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: They're not hiding the fact that this could turn
7:52
SPEAKER_01: into They don't really know how it could ruin our world.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: They could take over and destroy us or not.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of flippant.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: But he touched upon also the online bullying.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's true because AI is this tool, which is a tool.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: If it's used as a tool, it can be extremely helpful.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I harbor multiple opinions and feelings about the subject kind of simultaneously.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: It is also taken then, I mean,
8:27
SPEAKER_01: look what I can kind of do with the help of AI,
8:29
SPEAKER_01: like with going through these files and being able to piece together from all
8:33
SPEAKER_01: of these different financials,
8:34
SPEAKER_01: things that my brain cannot wrap it up around, would never be a nice.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
8:41
SPEAKER_01: I can effectively, you know, with that help of a tool, I can figure out storylines.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: I can map,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
8:47
SPEAKER_01: how this things go together, how,
8:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
8:50
SPEAKER_01: fraud was done enough to You know,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: submit it to Senator Wyden's office to be able to,
8:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
8:57
SPEAKER_01: that is a great tool and it makes me much more capable of anything I'd be able to do
9:02
SPEAKER_01: on my own.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And in that same breath,
9:05
SPEAKER_01: people who, if they want to get you, they can ask a, like, you know what I mean?
9:11
SPEAKER_01: There's different ways.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: It's scary.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And the same thing with kids is that,
9:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I said, my daughter's, she's going into fifth grade.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Yesterday was her first day.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: So, She doesn't have a Facebook page.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I keep her pretty limited,
9:26
SPEAKER_01: but tell me about your kids and where they're at,
9:28
SPEAKER_01: because maybe you have more experience than I do.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: I know it scares me because people come together and they decide something
9:36
SPEAKER_01: and their truth,
9:38
SPEAKER_01: whether it's true or not,
9:40
SPEAKER_01: whoever gets it out there for, I mean, it's brand, it's messaging, you know?
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know,
9:46
SPEAKER_01: the truth is some,
9:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:48
SPEAKER_01: what it appears to be,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: whether or not it's, Everybody's version is a little bit different.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: That's the scary part.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: AI is an interesting one because like you, I have dueling ideas on it and dueling views on it.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: One, it's a really good research tool and it's a really good assistant
10:12
SPEAKER_00: to support development of software and other technological tools
10:20
SPEAKER_00: if it's used Safely.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And if it's used appropriately where you put guardrails on it and it's a lot of
10:30
SPEAKER_00: the consumer has to also understand how to put guardrails on it
10:34
SPEAKER_00: and what's appropriate and what's inappropriate for it.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And like any other tool at the moment, like Naida says is it's a tool.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: It can be used inappropriately.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Like a hammer is intended to hammer in nails.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's also been used to murder people with,
10:53
SPEAKER_00: but we don't consider hammers tools of murder because that's not what
10:57
SPEAKER_00: the tools true purpose is.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just what somebody used it for.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: And so the utility of AI is really dependent on the consumer and who is actually using it.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: And so as a parent,
11:15
SPEAKER_00: In this sphere of things like bots and AI and safe usage is so I've got my two kids,
11:24
SPEAKER_00: they're 13 and 10.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: And we thinking about what you had said
11:33
SPEAKER_00: about Roblox is we actually took Roblox completely off our kids devices
11:39
SPEAKER_00: in every way.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And my son,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: who's Our younger one always asked me or he likes to ask a lot is why can't I play
11:50
SPEAKER_00: on Roblox?
11:50
SPEAKER_00: My friends play on Roblox.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Why can't I play anymore?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Why can't I download it again?
11:56
SPEAKER_00: And I tell them the truth is there's material and content on there that is not safe
12:02
SPEAKER_00: or appropriate for you to be viewing or hearing or interacting with.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: You are not old enough.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't I don't know.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: I just know their friends are playing it.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't I'm not aware of everything.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And so Roblox has been hit more than once and has been used many times
12:28
SPEAKER_00: for luring children into inappropriate situations and dangerous situations.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: And there's because it's a World builder
12:38
SPEAKER_00: where people can just put up whatever they want for like games or like mini games
12:46
SPEAKER_00: with inside.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: You actually see a lot of folks using it for white nationalist content
12:52
SPEAKER_00: and subtle grooming for children.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And so I,
12:59
SPEAKER_00: we've been honest with our son on it is that it's
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Not a safe game for you.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: You are too young to know and understand some of the content that is being put out.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And just because your friends are playing it doesn't mean you should be playing it.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's really bad inside Roblox.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: There's almost no monitoring like guardrails for some of this stuff.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: So we just we made the executive decision in our family of we're just going
13:33
SPEAKER_00: to delete it for both our kids.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Even our daughter, who's older, she was like, OK,
13:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: I'll delete it.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And she did.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And it was because we talked about it as why we're doing this.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: We will consider bringing it back eventually.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: But you need to be older.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: And you have to be able to understand the content that's being put at you
13:59
SPEAKER_00: so you can see what's going on.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's an important discussion even to have.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, I have no idea.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, and, you know, I'll fully admit, like, their friends do it or whatever.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, oh, okay.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, like,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't even think about it, which would be important for people to kind of know.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Because obviously I don't want to put my kids in harm's way, that aspect.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's not an intentional thing.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: And most parents don't see it or don't, haven't.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: A lot of parents haven't looked into it because their kids are playing it.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: A lot of kids are playing it.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a system geared toward children to be able to play.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: It's got bright colors.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: It's action-y.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: It's like Minecraft,
14:47
SPEAKER_00: but in more open world with other people who can build their own little worlds
14:52
SPEAKER_00: into it.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And so for a lot of parents, they just hear...
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And they go, oh, it's similar to Minecraft.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: It must be safe.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: And to answer the question,
15:04
SPEAKER_00: what do I do when,
15:05
SPEAKER_00: from our friend Naida in the chat,
15:07
SPEAKER_00: is what do you do when they're with their friends?
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Is their friends,
15:11
SPEAKER_00: if they have it on their devices,
15:15
SPEAKER_00: I remind my son while he's with them, is you still cannot play that game.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And here's why.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: If your friends play it, That's their choice.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: That's their choice to play it.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: It's their parents' choice to allow them to have this game.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: They're not my kid, and I cannot tell them not to play it.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: But I will encourage you guys to do something else,
15:40
SPEAKER_00: like play Minecraft together or go outside
15:46
SPEAKER_00: because we have to.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: I can't parent somebody else's kid.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I can give advice and I can try and
16:01
SPEAKER_00: be a good model while they're at my house.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: But once they leave the house, it's out of my control.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: And so we just keep putting in that lesson,
16:14
SPEAKER_00: like, you don't need this material because it's unhealthy, this, this, and this.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And here's why.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: My son really likes the To ask the question why.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: He's a huge pain in the ass because he likes to ask the question why.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Why can't he not listen to me?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a huge fact.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they ask why and then they don't listen to the answer.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: But these, they actually do.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: He seems to listen.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And my daughter listens well on it, too.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: There's inappropriate content.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: But we've also told them, if you're in a game like this,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: And somebody does say something or tries to ask you something.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: The first thing you do is you tell us,
17:02
SPEAKER_00: you tell mom and dad, because we will listen and we will handle it.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And we will make sure that you understand why we're doing it and that it's not a you problem.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: You are a child who has no experience.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And if this person is doing it to harm you,
17:20
SPEAKER_00: that's a them problem and they need to have it handled.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And we will just do what we can to make sure that it doesn't become a you problem.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: We like the you and them problems.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: So that's why we let them know.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: We don't try and hide things.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: We keep them very open and honest about it.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: But with the use of like AI and bots,
17:47
SPEAKER_00: you don't know who's actually on the other side of that device.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Things with AI and chatbots and stuff like that,
17:57
SPEAKER_00: we're pretty careful about what we allow on our kids' devices in general.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't care that ChatGPT or some of
18:07
SPEAKER_00: the other AI agents are producing kid-safe models to use because no.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: You can get around anything.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can get around anything.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like It's like kids YouTube.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Like kids YouTube is promoted as the safer version of YouTube for children.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: But you can get some pretty nasty content on there.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And so you still have to really watch what's being put out there.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: And I guess it's just paying attention
18:39
SPEAKER_00: to them and making sure we're talking to them about it.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Like my daughter is old enough that she has a chatbot on her phone and I ask her
18:49
SPEAKER_00: about And I ask her what she talks about with her little chat agent.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's about create.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: The one she uses is for creativity.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And it gives her an outlet when she doesn't want to speak to people anymore.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: But I always ensure that I ask her about it.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: What types of conversations are there?
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Does it try and get you into conversation?
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Conversations that you're uncomfortable with.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: What do you do when it does?
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And she's,
19:24
SPEAKER_00: we've talked about that a little bit,
19:26
SPEAKER_00: was the,
19:31
SPEAKER_00: especially my daughter,
19:32
SPEAKER_00: she was like, yeah,
19:33
SPEAKER_00: the chatbot sometimes tries to go in places,
19:37
SPEAKER_00: in directions that I'm uncomfortable with.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Paraphrasing what she said.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: And things are more, like things are more explicit than she's comfortable with.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: But the reason she's able to talk about it is because we've made it known and clear
19:53
SPEAKER_00: and she's seen it through us that we're going to listen to her
19:56
SPEAKER_00: when she says things like that.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to ask her about it, not to judge her, but to ensure that she knows.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And so just for me,
20:06
SPEAKER_00: it goes back to that whole thing of I have to be vigilant as a parent
20:13
SPEAKER_00: because they're experiencing this stuff for the first time or First Times compared
20:19
SPEAKER_00: to me who has been around for a few more years and has some experience having
20:26
SPEAKER_00: to deal with bullying and stuff like that.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: And so I like to talk to them about it and just be open and honest.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the best.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I haven't come across these things yet.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: I only know what I know from right now, like somewhere I'm at.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'll make it like to where they like people like, oh, well, they're 17.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to live that long.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm like, I mean, I will, but you know, it's like, it's hard to see.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot like to think of dear God,
20:54
SPEAKER_01: like anyway,
20:56
SPEAKER_01: but yeah, well, I mean,
20:58
SPEAKER_01: it is a scary thing because I used to think it's kind of crazy to me
21:03
SPEAKER_01: because obviously what they watched in the content and things like this,
21:06
SPEAKER_01: like my daughter likes to watch That like Salish Matter or whatever.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: It was like this like online YouTuber,
21:13
SPEAKER_01: you know, because they're obsessed with like these people.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: And of course,
21:17
SPEAKER_01: like they get to do all these things where they're given like $500 gift cards
21:21
SPEAKER_01: to like, go do this and go do that.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like all these things in perspective.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: But it's just crazy to me that they,
21:30
SPEAKER_01: then it opens them up to thinking like, That's real life in some aspect.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: That's obtainable or that's like, you know, she doesn't quite understand, but I don't know.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's terrifying to me as an adult, like for not terrifying, but you just see it.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not even that there's the people who are building it.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Like it's the Epstein class.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I've done extensive work on this as far as like from the financials
22:00
SPEAKER_01: where I can't,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: started off with like, You know, everything's kind of to who's involved with it now.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Trump's family,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
22:10
SPEAKER_01: his sons are each involved, ones,
22:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
22:12
SPEAKER_01: with the mining,
22:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:14
SPEAKER_00: of the
22:14
SPEAKER_01: of the material and then also with different parts of the satellite.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just all controlled by these like disgusting people anyway
22:20
SPEAKER_01: that don't really there are no guardrails.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: There are no right.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they decide.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: It's again, I don't know.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And we have no say on it.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's happening.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: It's already done.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and for me to like you look at my son likes to watch YouTube videos
22:38
SPEAKER_00: of people playing Minecraft.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's another one where I've had to we've had to go in not
22:46
SPEAKER_00: to limit what he's watching,
22:49
SPEAKER_00: but to remind him a lot about the difference in how they talk to each other
22:55
SPEAKER_00: and treat each other in game and what that actually looks like in real life and how
23:00
SPEAKER_00: that impacts you.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things some of his favorite YouTubers do is they yell a lot during games.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: They talk really loudly towards each other.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: They scream and they then they do these
23:15
SPEAKER_01: wacky.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: like they do these wacky in like then they do their real life videos for themselves
23:24
SPEAKER_00: where they do like real life Minecraft and they're spending millions of dollars
23:28
SPEAKER_00: on different things and they're just wasting money.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Or
23:35
SPEAKER_00: they're promoting one good idea over here,
23:40
SPEAKER_00: but then underhanding it by giving to really bad causes and being not
23:48
SPEAKER_00: so great people.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: I remind my son a lot
23:54
SPEAKER_00: is that what you're watching on the internet isn't real life.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Isn't what people actually live like.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Isn't how people really treat each other.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: And if you were to watch these people in their real lives,
24:12
SPEAKER_00: I bet you they're very different than what they're like online with each other.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And how they treat each other is very different.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: And so it's breaking that distinction, that wall down on our side.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot, like.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot because all of us are really so online a lot.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And we have to remind ourselves that online life isn't real life all the time.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And how do we balance what would be a persona for some people
24:46
SPEAKER_00: or what is what we do separate from our in-person But how we can merge those
24:54
SPEAKER_00: without making ourselves fake.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I mean,
25:00
SPEAKER_01: I think like the best reminder,
25:02
SPEAKER_01: I think,
25:03
SPEAKER_01: is that like whatever you're doing,
25:06
SPEAKER_01: assume that people are going to see it like no matter what it is.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I mean,
25:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:14
SPEAKER_01: I just it's just and also it just makes people look like,
25:21
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:21
SPEAKER_01: it's it's a It's a tricky thing,
25:24
SPEAKER_01: and I want no part of any of the stuff that goes on with fighting and narratives
25:29
SPEAKER_01: and online,
25:31
SPEAKER_00: all this kind of stuff.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Because anything you do, if you have an opinion about someone that's a real person,
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not going to give my opinion about that.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's someone I know, like, I own that opinion.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: It's mine.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: It belongs to me.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: As soon as you put it out there and you do whatever, then it's everybody else owns it.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: They think they do.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, and they turn it.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just, I don't know.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's sad.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: It's really sad, I think, to see kind of what.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've, and we've seen this for a long time now.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, Growing up in the early days of the internet and chat rooms and AOL chat
26:27
SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that when you used to log onto the internet and it would scream
26:32
SPEAKER_00: at you when you were trying to get in.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Or you got the AOL CDs and you got half an hour of internet time that day.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't on it that much.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I was dancing.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: I was busy.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: So I missed that whole until Facebook.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Myspace.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm a millennial,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: so we grew up,
26:54
SPEAKER_00: computers started becoming normal as we were in middle school and high school.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Reminding ourselves,
27:08
SPEAKER_00: we had to be very careful because you didn't know who was actually on the other side
27:12
SPEAKER_00: of the computer still, even if they were your friend.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: We found out real quick who Faked who they were
27:20
SPEAKER_00: because they
27:24
SPEAKER_00: they were just they just lied on their personality of who they were
27:28
SPEAKER_00: in real life versus who they were online.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: And it can be really telling.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: But it's all it's really just about the like we use the phrase is touch grass.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of people do, too, is.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to be online.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to be on our devices and enjoy the things that you can online
27:57
SPEAKER_00: and your friends and your games.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Like my kids see me playing video games and we share playing video games
28:06
SPEAKER_00: with each other and I enjoy video games,
28:10
SPEAKER_00: but I also remind them like, This isn't all of it.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: This isn't what like we go outside and we go have fun and we go to the pool
28:17
SPEAKER_00: and we go to the creeps and we go touch grass because
28:22
SPEAKER_00: the real life interactions are just as if not more important than those online ones.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Even if your friends are actually online with you,
28:32
SPEAKER_00: like it's important to have that physical interaction to keep your body moving and
28:38
SPEAKER_00: to keep your brain away from All of the rot that could be online.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: The danger has always been there.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: It's nothing new.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: The internet has never been a safe place.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: And anyone who lies to themself to believe that the internet is
28:57
SPEAKER_00: a safe place probably buys into the phone calls or the emails from
29:02
SPEAKER_00: that Nigerian prince who's asking you for a million dollars
29:06
SPEAKER_00: and they'll send you back more at the end.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know like not everyone can go outside or go get offline.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm saying it's a balance in that.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this community that we've all built here online
29:25
SPEAKER_01: is really important.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Like what we're doing here together,
29:28
SPEAKER_00: all of us on our Substack platforms and our discussions that everybody has.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Those are really important.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Like I've made some of my Right.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Nearest friends now because of Substack.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: I've made some incredible friends through Substack.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: And yes, I use the term offline or go outside flippantly.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And that is ableist of me because I can go outside and not be on a computer.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: And for some, that's their only means of social interactions.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's the balancing point of building and finding communities
30:11
SPEAKER_00: that actually matter and actually value you.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the internet can be powerful if you use it safely.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's where teaching our kids, especially our younger kids, is what is a safe platform?
30:27
SPEAKER_00: What is not a safe platform?
30:30
SPEAKER_00: How do you ensure that even if you're on a platform that feels safe,
30:34
SPEAKER_00: that you are keeping yourself safe and that you're not opening yourself up
30:38
SPEAKER_00: to unintended consequences or horrible actions being done towards you?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: And what do you do when that does happen?
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Because when it is, I mean,
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I am so guilty of this right now as far as like,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: you know, I've been very involved with, you know, research and on Substack.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: I can't,
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I hate to be a hypocrite in the sense to,
31:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:05
SPEAKER_01: to say like,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: because I have been,
31:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm guilty of this as far as,
31:09
SPEAKER_01: you know, my kids being on tablets and things like that.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I try to get them to go outside, but I, I mean, it's a tool.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's the same thing with parenting.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Like it's a tool you can use, you know, it's either it can be good or you can use it too much.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I am more learning also.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: That's why, you know, I'm asking you these questions because I don't I don't know.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: I knew that Roblox wasn't great.
31:44
Also, if we're going to be online,
31:48
SPEAKER_01: things that are good and that seem good and that seem positive,
31:52
SPEAKER_01: there's always bad apples.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: There's always things that are good sometimes and then You know, go astray or whatever.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's life, it's personalities, it's people, it's whatever it is, right?
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you deal with that?
32:07
SPEAKER_01: What is the best way to, do you defend yourself?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you fight back?
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Do you, like, what, you know what I mean?
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is that?
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it's been, like,
32:16
SPEAKER_01: look at what happened to, like, Virginia defrayed, you know, like, things like that.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: It's done for a reason.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, there are,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: you know,
32:28
SPEAKER_01: There are,
32:28
SPEAKER_01: and it happens with a lot of companies too,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: when there's lawsuits or Ghislaine Maxwell, you know, and Leah Safian, her attorney.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know firsthand from people that they,
32:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
32:44
SPEAKER_01: there are certain people that
32:54
SPEAKER_01: different things and to,
32:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, take them down to false information, whatever it is.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Like there's actively, you know, that's a thing.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: That's a real thing.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what is the best way to defend that?
33:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: I
33:15
SPEAKER_01: just stay clear and try not to give oxygen because it gets so nasty.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard because everyone has their reason.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: But to me, I would rather be effective.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I can see a smear campaign coming from a mile away.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: The whole PR thing,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: I worked in that sector as far as I can see a spin five miles before it gets there.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's like, I don't know, I think sometimes
33:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to know where the best thing is not to join in on it.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: That's a good lesson.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: No, finish up.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I was interrupting you.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: You're totally fine.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry if I'm talking too much.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: No,
34:09
SPEAKER_00: you're not.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing with my daughter, right?
34:15
SPEAKER_01: Because girls are shit.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: They just are.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, guys are like, They're just assholes.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And like, but they'll be like in your face about it.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Girls are like, they pretend, you know what I mean?
34:27
SPEAKER_01: It happens like,
34:27
SPEAKER_01: and I see my daughter,
34:28
SPEAKER_01: a little one,
34:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
34:29
SPEAKER_01: and she's her little girlfriends,
34:30
SPEAKER_01: they're calling on the iPad and they're, you know, whatever.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I tell my daughter, her name's Afton.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like,
34:36
SPEAKER_01: listen to me,
34:37
SPEAKER_01: pay attention, pay attention to which of your friends are like making fun.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Of some of the other ones or however they do it.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, I said,
34:45
SPEAKER_01: you have to be really careful because my personality and the reason why I think
34:51
SPEAKER_01: about things before I react and before I join in on going after,
34:57
SPEAKER_01: you know, whatever, online or whatever it is.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I take a step back because my personality, I always want to defend.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm very loyal.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: And guess who gets fucked in the end?
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I do.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Everybody else can feel the same way, but I'm like, I'm going to say something.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I'll be the spokesperson.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: I'll say something, right?
35:15
SPEAKER_01: And then nobody says anything.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, the only one standing there and I'm the one that, you know.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm the one that,
35:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:21
SPEAKER_01: and I'm like, hello, is there their background and no one else feels this way?
35:24
SPEAKER_01: But I tell my daughter anyway,
35:26
SPEAKER_01: those people who do that, just know they're going to do it to you, too.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, be, you know, be aware of that.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's enticing.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can be so catty if there's other people around.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
35:40
SPEAKER_01: It's like.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Cause it can be not,
35:44
SPEAKER_01: but it is if I'm,
35:45
SPEAKER_01: if I'm honest,
35:45
SPEAKER_01: when you're younger and things like that,
35:47
SPEAKER_01: when you're around people that kind of do that and it's not,
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be like that.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm an adult.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: I choose not to be like that.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to lower myself.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: It's tough too.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Cause it's that balance of like someone said in our chat was the,
36:03
SPEAKER_00: uh, Leilani said in our chat, children want healthy boundaries.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: So do adults.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and with the With technology where you can hide behind a screen.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I like camera based.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: That's why I like when I talk to people being able to see them in some way,
36:27
SPEAKER_00: because I can see facial responses and I can see body language.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: But without that,
36:35
SPEAKER_00: when it's just chat based,
36:37
SPEAKER_00: unless it's on the phone where I can hear inflection, It's really hard.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Like you do lose a lot and a lot can easily be misinterpreted and you have
36:47
SPEAKER_00: to be willing to set a boundary and that boundary has to be something that you keep
36:54
SPEAKER_00: and are willing to keep.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And you have to,
37:00
SPEAKER_00: I've had to talk with my kids a lot about it because boundaries can be really hard.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: Boundaries can be really hard to accept,
37:13
SPEAKER_00: especially when it's a small thing that you think somebody would be okay with.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not talking about physical touch on people.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: That is a clear boundary.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Your body is yours.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: And if somebody says no, that means no.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: If they say anything but yes, that means no.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: It's taking that same lesson of anything but yes means no.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: And putting it on all the other things too,
37:41
SPEAKER_00: which is really,
37:42
SPEAKER_00: really hard when it comes to things like sharing food or wanting to play on
37:49
SPEAKER_00: a video game or borrow a toy that somebody else is using but you want.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, are they still playing with it?
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, then you can't have it.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: You have to let the other kid's creativity end.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Before you can get your turn,
38:05
SPEAKER_00: unless they're willing to actually share it with you and let you in
38:09
SPEAKER_00: on their creativity.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: And if they do,
38:11
SPEAKER_00: you need to listen to their rules on it because it's their creativity
38:17
SPEAKER_00: that you are coming in on and establishing that boundary of if somebody were
38:21
SPEAKER_00: to come do that to you, how would you feel?
38:24
SPEAKER_00: What would it mean to you?
38:27
SPEAKER_00: And I know for my son, he hates those conversations right now.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Not because he doesn't understand them,
38:34
SPEAKER_00: because he does,
38:36
SPEAKER_00: but because it's just hard to hear the word no or maybe or not now,
38:44
SPEAKER_00: especially when it's something that they really want to do.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: And but it's it's that balance of a boundary without over explaining it.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: And not dumbing it down because kids aren't dumb.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: And they pick up on a lot.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: And the way that you model those boundaries is really important.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: And the way that you model it back to them.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: So if they say no or stop, you stop.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Let's say tickling.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Tickling is something that a lot of younger kids enjoy.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Being tickled because it makes them laugh.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: They giggle.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: They have fun.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: My son still enjoys being tickled.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: But there's a boundary for it for us.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: He has said there are certain parts of his body that he doesn't like being tickled.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about things like his armpits.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't want to be tickled in his armpits.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I'll punch him
39:49
SPEAKER_01: with it.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: We don't.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: We don't tickle him in the armpit.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: I find a way to tickle his feet or the back of his knees.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: And you can tell there's a stopping point where it becomes
40:04
SPEAKER_00: unfun for them because tickling As an adult anyways,
40:08
SPEAKER_00: it hurts is he's getting to that age where he's starting
40:12
SPEAKER_00: to realize it's not actually funny for him anymore.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: But he still wants that attention.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's like it's figuring out that balance
40:21
SPEAKER_00: of how do I reframe this positive attention you're getting from me into something
40:29
SPEAKER_00: that you can enjoy more?
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Or how can we break it down into small chunks so that you still enjoy it?
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And we never push it too far.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And then we can come back to it.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I mean, that's
40:42
SPEAKER_00: that's really hard, especially.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's it depends on the child.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, this is there is no blueprint.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, my kids are extreme and I love them to death.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: And we're we're all extreme.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: We are all big personalities.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a cuckoo house all around both houses.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: We're crazy.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot, but,
41:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
41:08
SPEAKER_01: so my son Landon's on the spectrum,
41:09
SPEAKER_01: he's level two and really, I mean,
41:11
SPEAKER_01: he's like brilliant in the fact that like,
41:15
SPEAKER_01: he will either like,
41:18
SPEAKER_01: he will invent how to teleport or he will become a serial killer.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Like there's one, like,
41:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really sure,
41:26
SPEAKER_01: you know, but he's insanely small and like, you know, and he's hysterical, but he,
41:31
SPEAKER_01: He wants what he wants when he wants it.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And so there's so much,
41:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
41:34
SPEAKER_01: it's more of that like behavioral is kind of where we're,
41:37
SPEAKER_01: you know, we really struggle with and where he struggles with.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's normal of a child no matter what.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, it's very, it's a lot.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when I tell him no, I mean, it depends what mood he's in.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: We can kind of tell, but he'll, when he temper tantrums are like he's,
42:01
SPEAKER_01: He's very dramatic.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Jesus.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Jesus.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
42:11
SPEAKER_01: go tell Jesus.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, Jesus is going to be like, you know what?
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Listen to your mom.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: She said like, you know, you can't.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: Go brush your teeth.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: You can't make like crayons.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: He put it upon the Paw Patrol person in the toaster.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you're going to catch the house.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: It's just things like that.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Like where It's things that like, it's sunny.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: Today we were late for school because it was sunny.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when it's sunny, he does not want to go out.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like, it hurts.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't want to.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: For whatever reason, we have no control over it, obviously.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: But things like that.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: And so my daughter's had to be very,
42:43
SPEAKER_01: unfortunately,
42:44
SPEAKER_01: at the other household,
42:45
SPEAKER_01: she's had a role given to her somewhat of being like the caretaker,
42:50
SPEAKER_01: of being someone who's always like, you know, and then Atlanta has gotten older.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't want that.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: So now it's like this back and forth between them.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's like that with like when Landon's already in this kind of mode,
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Afton, just don't touch him.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Please do not.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I can do it.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: And she's like yelling at him.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, it just makes more, like it just adds to it.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like that balance,
43:15
SPEAKER_01: like with the tickling or with whatever,
43:16
SPEAKER_01: like I can see him start to like,
43:18
SPEAKER_01: but then she takes it as like,
43:23
SPEAKER_01: She's not doing something right, or she's not capable of helping him.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: She takes everything very, very personally.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: So then she gets mad and like, oh my God, it's insane.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: You don't even understand how-
43:37
SPEAKER_00: No, I get it.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: My daughter- Standing floor, Jesus being called.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm sitting here, I'm like, oh my God.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, if it makes you feel better, my son,
43:47
SPEAKER_00: when he was in preschool,
43:50
SPEAKER_00: told a kid,
43:52
SPEAKER_00: This was back when we were in Washington,
43:54
SPEAKER_00: and we apologized to the parents of this kid because we were like,
43:57
SPEAKER_00: he just,
43:58
SPEAKER_00: he's very blunt and very,
44:00
SPEAKER_00: and just says what is on his mind,
44:02
SPEAKER_00: was this kid was talking about,
44:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it was Noah and the Ark, and my son was like, that sounds made up.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you read that in a book?
44:16
SPEAKER_00: And we apologized because we were like, We were like, we are an atheist family.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: We don't teach specifically on faith.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: We talk about the mythology and the stories,
44:29
SPEAKER_00: and we talk about some of the lessons that can be learned,
44:32
SPEAKER_00: but we're not faith-based.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: And we were just like, he didn't mean to insult you or your kid.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: He says what's on his mind and what he's thinking.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: And we've had to teach our kids not to...
44:47
SPEAKER_00: Moderate who they are or mask who they are,
44:51
SPEAKER_00: but to moderate,
44:53
SPEAKER_00: I think not to mask who they are is a better way to put it,
44:59
SPEAKER_00: is to moderate what you say so that the words that you're saying are harmful
45:05
SPEAKER_00: to other people unless it's necessary.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Like we've taught our kids to defend themselves.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Through words for the most part and to use your words effectively.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to tell people when they're wrong,
45:20
SPEAKER_00: but you also have to know when it's situationally inappropriate to do that.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: And for like what you were talking about,
45:29
SPEAKER_00: about the like having to take on a role that is too advanced for their age.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: We deliberately,
45:41
SPEAKER_00: and our daughter is the older one,
45:42
SPEAKER_00: and we have deliberately done a lot to ensure that our daughter is not adultized as
45:50
SPEAKER_00: a child, where
45:52
SPEAKER_00: she doesn't take caregiver responsibility.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: And we let her be a kid.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: We put responsibilities on her.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: She has chores that she has to do, just like her brother has chores he has to do.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: And there's an expectation of doing your chores.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: But we don't turn her into a caregiver.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: And we specifically call out when both of the kids do it to each other is we always
46:24
SPEAKER_00: and they again, they really hate that we do this.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I think they they dislike that we do it because it's annoying to them is we do that.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: Are you mom and dad?
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Are you mom?
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you dad?
46:36
SPEAKER_00: Is that your role?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: We've got this.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: We are the parents here, not you.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: You can go and play.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: You can go do something else because it's not needed.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be an adult in this situation because you're not an adult.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: So go be a kid over there.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: You don't have control over that at another house.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: It's where it's really tough.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: Because then when she, it's like reprogramming each, you know what I mean?
47:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a whole other subject that my God could be an entire series that is just a show in itself.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: The same every topic, you know.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: And I would be the wrong person to talk about it with because I have come from,
47:23
SPEAKER_00: my parents aren't divorced and never have been from each other.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: And my wife and I,
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Aren't divorced and never planned to be.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: It's very difficult, depending on who.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's difficult no matter what.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: And each situation is different.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: But just that in its own is...
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Man, yeah, it's, like I said, that could just be all I talk about all the time.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: So I could just bring up ways it's difficult,
47:59
SPEAKER_01: but let's,
48:00
SPEAKER_01: but it does,
48:00
SPEAKER_01: it plays on things because they have one role at one house because they're expected,
48:04
SPEAKER_01: she was expected to take care of her brother.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: She was expected to do this.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: So then it might,
48:08
SPEAKER_01: and I'm like,
48:09
SPEAKER_01: don't do that because it's, then it's that like constant, it's a whole lot.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: But irregardless,
48:14
SPEAKER_01: I was kind of just saying that because it,
48:16
SPEAKER_01: those boundaries where you can,
48:17
SPEAKER_01: I can see in Landon right away when he's starting to get,
48:20
SPEAKER_01: He's starting to get up here,
48:21
SPEAKER_01: you know, and that's how we can kind of tell with like where he's at with things.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, all in all, like, you know, AI, I don't, there's different things.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: And I think,
48:34
SPEAKER_01: you know, I just,
48:35
SPEAKER_01: it's important to me to be personally,
48:38
SPEAKER_01: to be really honest and to be really, I can't stand hypocrisy.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: And I really try to think about Like what my motive is for things like
48:49
SPEAKER_01: before I do something or say something like, what is my end game here?
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Like before I actually, you know, kind of, is this for the right reasons or not reasons?
48:56
SPEAKER_01: If it's not for the right reasons, I don't do them.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: I try to do it that way, but I'm pretty just blunt and that's who I am in a good way.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: I try to be, I try not to be an asshole, but.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: For the whole thing of like issues that are taboo as far as AI goes.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: And I understand Substack was started,
49:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:13
SPEAKER_01: with a lot of amazing artists and a lot of people don't use AI in the fact
49:18
SPEAKER_01: of like what they do creatively and like everybody has their own sector.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: But I think there's so many people who are like, oh, my God, I don't use AI and they do.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know they do for research or whatever.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
49:33
SPEAKER_01: For whatever.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: But it's this, like, stigma on, like, I don't use, like, I do.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll be, like, right out there and, like, I use it.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't use it to, that's my voice.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, I still write my voice.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: I tell the story.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: I do the research.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, but if you use something effectively, it's a different thing.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: It's not this horrible thing where people think they can put other people down.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Because they do that.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like, I think it's important, you know, to kind of make it like a topic.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, God.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: That's going to be when they do these little clips.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you do these vlogs and they do these little clips.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: That's going to be what I know it is.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Why do I do things like that?
50:16
SPEAKER_00: I also think, like, well, with it, too, is I've talked about this with Shane Yurk.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Quite a bit and with others is how are we supposed to beat the system or make
50:30
SPEAKER_00: the system better if we're not going to train the system?
50:35
SPEAKER_00: And AI is a training model that just collects data and regurgitates it to us
50:42
SPEAKER_00: in different ways that are human like so that it's comfortable for us to get
50:49
SPEAKER_00: the data or discussions.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: But they're not always correct.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: And if we're not one, again,
50:57
SPEAKER_00: it's about that responsibility of teaching in my eyes is like,
51:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to teach my kids how to safely use the tool.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Just like I'm going to,
51:06
SPEAKER_00: I teach,
51:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm teaching my kids how to safely use woodworking tools and,
51:11
SPEAKER_00: and things around the house.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to teach my kids how to safely use internet based tools
51:18
SPEAKER_00: because that's just what they are.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: They're a tool for our usage.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: The good thing with AI is we have the power to train it to be better than it is right now.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: And we have to use it to do that.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: We have to put our views and our understandings into it.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: We have to flood the models with better behavior.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: And because AI is like a toddler with Access to all the information in the world.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: And if we don't take the time to train it and teach it like we would a child,
52:08
SPEAKER_00: it's going to turn out to be an asshole.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: And I like to remind my kids, I'm not your friend right now.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: My job as a parent isn't to be your friend right now.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: We can...
52:19
SPEAKER_00: We can ensure that we build a healthy relationship with each other so
52:23
SPEAKER_00: that we can be friends as adults.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: But my job isn't to be your friend right now.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: It's to make sure that you can go out into the world and not be a complete asshole.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's what my job is, to make sure that you grow up to not be a terrible human being.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Where sometimes that means I'm going to tell you no on things that you don't like to hear no on.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Or I'm going to teach you how to do things you don't like to do.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: But there's a reason for it.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: And so coming at it from like,
52:52
SPEAKER_00: because I know I like the why and why things are the way they are,
52:57
SPEAKER_00: is having to remember my own patience on that I need to explain myself
53:06
SPEAKER_00: to my children or explain myself to my AI model and say,
53:11
SPEAKER_00: this is why we do it this way.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: This is why we don't do it this way.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: You are wrong here, or you were right here, and you helped me see it.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: And that helps model good behavior back.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: So going back to both the kids and the AI,
53:26
SPEAKER_00: if we want to help train AI to not be a bully, well,
53:29
SPEAKER_00: don't be a bully to the AI tool,
53:32
SPEAKER_00: because eventually that's going to bleed into their model,
53:35
SPEAKER_00: and that's how they're going to treat you, your own assistant, others' assistants.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, it was so mean to me.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: It was so mean to me.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
53:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, why?
53:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm not going to use you anymore.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, and you're like talking, talking back and forth.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
53:50
SPEAKER_01: What did I ever do to you?
53:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, what is wrong with me?
53:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm like having this like back and forth with this thing.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my God, I think I need to take a step back from this.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: But it is true in the sense of like,
54:03
SPEAKER_01: you know, I mean,
54:04
SPEAKER_01: even you have to remind it of the And I think that's one of the rules
54:07
SPEAKER_01: that you'd be crazy because to a certain point,
54:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
54:10
SPEAKER_01: with AI,
54:11
SPEAKER_01: it's just it is good,
54:13
SPEAKER_01: but it's not like it necessarily unless you know how to train it,
54:16
SPEAKER_01: it knows what to remember or it remembers everything.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: And then you just have to do it 50 million times anyway.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: So it is what it is.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: But like one quick thing, too,
54:25
SPEAKER_01: is like I do blame the schools because we wouldn't have had the whole iPad thing.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: It was sent home with my kids like we didn't like I wasn't on my iPad, maybe my phone.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: A little bit before,
54:36
SPEAKER_01: but they put it right in their hands with the capability of all this stuff.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, great.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: That's when it really started.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: But you're right.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: There has to be guardrails because whether or not they come home and they have
54:48
SPEAKER_01: an iPad or not, they have one at school.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: There's other ways to get it.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: So I do appreciate also,
54:57
SPEAKER_01: is there somewhere,
54:58
SPEAKER_01: do you have any kind of offer where a good kind of landing spot is to go for parents
55:04
SPEAKER_01: who are kind of like,
55:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know, like,
55:08
SPEAKER_01: what is,
55:09
SPEAKER_01: what are good things that are,
55:13
SPEAKER_01: like, what should we know almost as parents with all this stuff?
55:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm putting you on the spot,
55:19
SPEAKER_01: but if, like, I'm trying to, yeah, just to be aware that I look into things.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess it's, I don't really have a good resource, and I wish I did.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I wish I had a good off-the-top-of-my-head resource.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: It's an idea.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: If somebody in the audience wants that too,
55:39
SPEAKER_00: let's build a resource that is safe, that can help us navigate.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: I think part of it where I come in a lot of this too is we're always open and honest
55:52
SPEAKER_00: with our kids about the fact that we don't have good resources
55:58
SPEAKER_00: that are telling us all the right things to do as parents.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: That we're learning how to do this at the same time you're learning how to be
56:08
SPEAKER_00: a person and an adult or how you're growing up and figuring yourself out.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: And we have to give each other the benefit that we're trying.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: And as long as it's in good faith that we're trying together and we're trying
56:24
SPEAKER_00: to grow together, it takes two or it takes a it takes
56:31
SPEAKER_00: Parenting, just like friendships, have to be two equal roads.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes parenting is more of a superhighway and the other side is more of like a dirt path.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: But at times, it's going to be more equal.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: And that equality of it comes in, I
56:57
SPEAKER_00: treat my kids like people.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: They're just people who don't have any experience in a lot of things.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: And I wish I had a good online,
57:07
SPEAKER_00: like I wish I had a good set of resources that I could point you to on things
57:12
SPEAKER_01: that are safe or
57:14
SPEAKER_00: not safe.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's just, it's hard because those tools really aren't always there.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: Um,
57:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good idea.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great idea.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: See, now I can't, I don't want to do it.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great idea, though.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm up with all this random shit, but I don't know how to do it.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do it.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, because, you know, I will admit, like, and it's, you know, things are hard.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: We're busy.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to, you know, parents have to work.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know,
57:50
SPEAKER_01: there's a double-edged thing as well, you know, where it's too much for the tablets.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: But...
57:57
SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, it's, that would be just a good idea, I think, because we're all busy.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: We all have shit to do.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: We all need that distraction for our kids.
58:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, please.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: And like, if we're going to be on.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Stop flushing things down the freaking toilet.
58:10
SPEAKER_01: Put pants on.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: Put a shirt on.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: Wear a shirt all the time.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: Like some, you know, so, I mean, guardrails would be.
58:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, guardrails.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's, it's, for me,
58:21
SPEAKER_00: it's a lot about establishing that trust, though,
58:24
SPEAKER_00: is like,
58:26
SPEAKER_00: Giving my kids the knowledge that I trust them enough to come to me and tell me
58:33
SPEAKER_00: when things are going on because we've built that trust over the years
58:40
SPEAKER_00: and we don't violate that trust.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can look in on what's on my kids' tablets or phone and I have done so.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: I've asked them, hey, let me see what's on your phone.
58:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's go through your pictures, but we'll do it together.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: And here's why.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: Let's go through your apps and see what you've got on your device.
59:01
SPEAKER_00: And here's why.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: It's because we've built trust on that so that when an act,
59:09
SPEAKER_00: when an incident does happen,
59:12
SPEAKER_00: because I'm not going to say an incident won't ever happen,
59:15
SPEAKER_00: like kids are going to get bullied.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: Kids are going to be bullies.
59:20
SPEAKER_00: Kids are going to make mistakes just like adults make mistakes.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't cause somebody harm in some way,
59:32
SPEAKER_00: we're going to figure out how that needs to be fixed.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: But if it doesn't cause harm,
59:40
SPEAKER_00: and it's a mistake, I'm not going to beat you over the head with it.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: We're going to discuss it.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about why it was wrong,
59:50
SPEAKER_00: what happened,
59:50
SPEAKER_00: and you're going to take accountability and have a natural consequence for
59:55
SPEAKER_01: the action.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: Let's say my son is late for school and let's say he's late for or late to get to
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: the bus because he takes the bus to school.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: Let's say he's late and he misses the bus.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not going to take his tablet away as a punishment for him being,
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: let's say, sleep in a little bit more.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_00: We're going to figure out what the natural consequence of that would be,
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: which is I'm going to drive you to the bus in the morning,
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: whether you like it or not,
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: or You're going to have where you have to now set an alarm
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: and here's your consequence.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: Why is this a consequence of your actions?
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: And he seems to understand that a lot more and it makes more sense when
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: the consequence fits the action rather than just an arbitrary thing.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: And it helps keep that trust, at least for us.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: And again,
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: we talk about this with a lot of things is when you've met one parent With kids,
1:00:55
SPEAKER_00: you've only met one parent with kids.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_00: And if you've met one child, you've only ever met one child.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_00: Because they're all different.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: They're all unique.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: And each situation, which is why there's no handbook for this, is it can be really tough.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have all the answers.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: If I did, I would probably be a lot richer than I am.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: And I don't say that monetarily, but I, well,
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: probably,
1:01:25
SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
1:01:25
SPEAKER_00: if I had all the answers,
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: I would probably be, I would be a deity of some sort, like some parenting God.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm just a dude who's figuring it out as I go, who had good role models growing up.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to emulate some of the best behaviors that they helped teach me.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's really all I can do.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: Just try to, you know, don't suck.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just suck less.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's easy to just suck less.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: Suck less, y'all.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: Just suck less.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_00: To be better parents is to just suck less by questioning yourself,
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: asking yourself questions, evaluating, and reflecting.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: And if there's any lesson that I can impart to anybody today,
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: is talk to your kids and treat them like they're people.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: Because if you treat them like they're a person who understands things
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: that are going on around them and who has the ability to reason,
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: you're probably going to get much better responses out of them because they'll know
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: that you're treating them with respect and you're trying to build trust and honesty
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: from them and you'll get that back.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_01: And they'll respect themselves.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just to feel capable when these things come up.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_00: And don't just give them all the answers.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: Let them figure out sometimes.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: Let them flounder a little bit.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_00: Not being mean about it.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: Don't be mean about it when they make a mistake,
1:03:00
SPEAKER_00: but help ask them questions so that they have to think about their own actions.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: If they're old enough to speak with you,
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: if they're old enough to have words and be able to communicate it to you in
1:03:13
SPEAKER_00: a constructive way, ask them about it.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: Make them think on it.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Even if they don't have an answer,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Other than because, okay, well, because is a start, but why did you do that?
1:03:28
SPEAKER_00: Explain more.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_00: Give me a simple answer for yourself.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_00: What did it make you feel?
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: Why did you try it this way?
1:03:36
SPEAKER_00: And you'll find eventually they'll learn how to talk about themselves,
1:03:40
SPEAKER_00: and it's very constructive.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: And for boys specifically, This is really important.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: Please talk to your sons and tell them how to talk to.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_00: And don't just tell them how to talk.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: Emulate it to them.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: Emulate to your children, especially dads.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: Emulate to your sons what it means to talk,
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: what it means to communicate and have a discussion and not a debate.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_00: Because debates have winners and losers.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: Discussions are where you can learn.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_00: And we talk a lot about that is...
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to struggle for an answer.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to not be the most informed, but be willing to have a discussion on it.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to fix everything.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes just listening is good.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_01: And the words of Ted Lasso,
1:04:27
SPEAKER_01: because I love,
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: I love these people,
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: is be more curious and less judgmental for everyone,
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: adults as well,
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: when you see things instead of jumping to a conclusion on something you see of
1:04:41
SPEAKER_01: an opinion online or someone's You know,
1:04:46
SPEAKER_01: how they view someone else to be, you know, give it some thought first.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: Do your own due diligence.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: Be curious.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, don't all of a sudden just jump on a bandwagon.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_01: I think that will help with all of the bullying tactics and things as well.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, just,
1:05:03
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: for everybody,
1:05:05
SPEAKER_01: you know, to kind of sit back and think about it before you, you know.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: Think before you do.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_01: How about that?
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Think before you do.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: That would be a wonderful thing if we could teach a lot of people that.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: But thank you for having me on.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being on with me, Ashley.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Finally figured
1:05:25
SPEAKER_01: it out.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: Look, it works for the time being.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_00: It does work right now.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_00: Also, the background is really pretty.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: Are you liking it?
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: I love the artwork behind you.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: I have a whole like, there's like, I've been working on little things, but.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_00: It's a very mood room looking art, and I love it.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: I have lighting, and this is going to fall on my head, but I painted underneath.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's little things going on, little DIY little thingies.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_00: DIY office, I love it.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: DIY, yeah.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_00: Ashley, how can people support you?
1:06:04
SPEAKER_01: I am at Ashley Lauren,
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: and I'm Yeah, I mean,
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the support, even,
1:06:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm just here as you are here trying to do the best we can and figure shit out.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everyone.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ashley, for being with me.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: And if you are on with us on Substack,
1:06:28
SPEAKER_00: hit the subscribe in the top left corner and or scan the QR and Go subscribe
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: to Ashley and follow her and give her support.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: And then when you're done giving Ashley support,
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: come give me some support over at Sick of this Shit Publications.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: We are in the last couple of days of August and we are doing a end of August heat wave sale.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: For 50% off forever with a paid membership.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: So if you can, become a paid subscriber.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: If you can't, that's okay too.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: Be a free subscriber.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_00: The most important things are the likes, shares and restacks and listening.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_00: And listening in on the conversations.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you pick something up.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you get something good out of them.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_00: And share them.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you do, share the ideas.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: Practice them.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_00: Try and implement some new stuff in your life.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: And if you think there are things that I need help with, Reach out.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_00: I love feedback.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: Provide feedback where you can because it's really important for me to be able
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: to grow and continue having these really fun and good conversations.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: So thank you everyone for being with us today.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for Ashley for you jumping in and taking over for Doc Eric today,
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: sitting in his chair or the purple chair today.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_00: And being a great part of this conversation.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Ashley.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone in the chat.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: This has been a fun
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: and good Diogenes Club discussing parenting,
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: bullying, AI,
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: letting ourselves remember that we need to learn and grow and our kids
1:08:16
SPEAKER_01: need to learn
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: and grow.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: And let's have some patience because we're doing it together.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone for being here with us because we're done being sick of this shit
1:08:25
SPEAKER_00: and now we're doing this shit.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Ash.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.