Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / How should the Pirates approach the rest of the offseason?

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How should the Pirates approach the rest of the offseason? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bucco Territory,
0:13
Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm your host,
0:16
Speaker 1: Noah Hiles, and joining me as always are my co
0:18
Speaker 1: hosts Mark aka Platinum Key and Josh Harrison aka j
0:22
Speaker 1: Hey Fellas. Final episode of twenty twenty five is about
0:28
Speaker 1: to be underway. We've got a lot to get into.
0:31
Speaker 1: The Pirates have had a very busy month of December.
0:34
Speaker 1: We're going to see if they can finish it off
0:36
Speaker 1: with one more big signing. Before we get into that,
0:40
Speaker 1: one to ask both of you, how was how was
0:42
Speaker 1: your holiday season?
0:45
Speaker 2: Go ahead more?
0:45
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean I'm in Wisconsin seeing a bunch
0:48
Speaker 3: of families, so been busy with a lot of travel.
0:51
Speaker 3: I'm recording in hotels, so hopefully everything goes smooth. But yeah,
0:56
Speaker 3: it's been great. I have family on both sides of
0:59
Speaker 3: my family from Wisconsin. My girl has some family on
1:02
Speaker 3: her side of the family Wisconsin, so it's our little tradition.
1:05
Speaker 3: They come up here and get some cheese curds and
1:07
Speaker 3: some Wisconsin old fashions in the lakes.
1:10
Speaker 2: So yeah, I.
1:11
Speaker 3: Drove drove Y Miller Park and you know, made sure
1:14
Speaker 3: to raise my fist at the American Family feel now.
1:17
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's been fun.
1:19
Speaker 2: How about you. It is what it's called now.
1:21
Speaker 4: I forgot American American family field. Recovering, feeling a lot better.
1:26
Speaker 4: Little sickness came through and tried to sweep out my house.
1:29
Speaker 4: We were still able to celebrate the holidays around you know,
1:33
Speaker 4: Christmas morning, my kids had to you know, I don't
1:36
Speaker 4: want to say fan for themselves.
1:37
Speaker 2: Mom and dad.
1:38
Speaker 4: We woke up, you know with them, let them open
1:40
Speaker 4: up the presence, but we were kind of out for
1:42
Speaker 4: the count for the rest of the day and then it.
1:45
Speaker 2: Tried to sneak up and get my baby girls.
1:47
Speaker 4: So we're all recovering, but you know, if there was
1:49
Speaker 4: a time for us to have a little chill time,
1:52
Speaker 4: and there's nothing like the holidays because we still got
1:54
Speaker 4: to enjoy time with the family. We just had to
1:56
Speaker 4: do it a day later. So, you know, definitely blessed
1:59
Speaker 4: feeling that everybody backfilling healthy and you know, looking forward
2:02
Speaker 4: to what's to come for this new year.
2:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. This
2:07
Speaker 1: weather changes ist me on my rear end, so you know,
2:11
Speaker 1: we're going to grind through because the show don't stop
2:13
Speaker 1: for anybody. It actually does stop real quick for an
2:17
Speaker 1: ad break. We're going to before we get into our
2:19
Speaker 1: show today, we want to hear from our sponsor. This
2:23
Speaker 1: episode is sponsored by so Many Angels, and nonprofit founded
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Speaker 1: Visit so Many Angels dot org to learn more, share
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Speaker 1: the link, or find ways to support this incredible Pittsburgh nonprofit.
2:50
Speaker 1: That's so many Angels dot org. All right, fellas so
2:56
Speaker 1: As I said earlier, it's been a busy month of
2:58
Speaker 1: December for the Pittsburghs. They've made a few trades, they've
3:01
Speaker 1: signed a free agent or two as well, and fans
3:05
Speaker 1: are hoping for one more big move. The name that
3:08
Speaker 1: keeps getting attached to them is, of course Okamoto, the
3:11
Speaker 1: top international free agent remaining right now, First and third
3:15
Speaker 1: basement to a corner infielder with some pop he's twenty
3:18
Speaker 1: nine years old. My question to you isn't you know
3:21
Speaker 1: would this guy be a good fit? Because we've talked
3:23
Speaker 1: about that a ton on this show about how he
3:25
Speaker 1: is a good fit. But when you look at what
3:29
Speaker 1: they've done so far, and you have to look at
3:31
Speaker 1: things realistically, right now, the Pirates probably only have a
3:36
Speaker 1: couple of more moves left, as you know, as what
3:41
Speaker 1: they're perceived payroll will be right. I don't think it's
3:46
Speaker 1: realistic to expect this club to spend over one hundred
3:50
Speaker 1: and five maybe one hundred and ten million dollars tops. Heck,
3:53
Speaker 1: I don't even think it's going to get that high.
3:55
Speaker 1: And I believe they're around the ninety five million dollar
3:58
Speaker 1: mark right now after the O'Hearn signing. So let's just
4:02
Speaker 1: say they have at most fifteen more fifteen million more
4:07
Speaker 1: to add to this year's payroll. Would it be best
4:12
Speaker 1: spent on one guy like Okemono or even a Gino Suarez,
4:18
Speaker 1: or would they be better off breaking that up and
4:22
Speaker 1: divvying it equally elsewhere. Maybe you add another starting pitcher,
4:26
Speaker 1: Maybe you add another catcher. Maybe you get just a
4:30
Speaker 1: utility guy who can play third base, maybe some short
4:32
Speaker 1: until Connor Griffin's here. I want to ask both of you.
4:35
Speaker 1: Will start with Josh, what do you think do you
4:37
Speaker 1: go all in on a big bat and round out
4:39
Speaker 1: this lineup and address your primary need or are you
4:42
Speaker 1: trying to divvy that money up and try to make
4:45
Speaker 1: it stretch as long as he can?
4:47
Speaker 4: Me personally, I think we've done enough of divvy enough
4:50
Speaker 4: trying to stretch things out on the situation that we've
4:53
Speaker 4: always been in. I think you have to try to
4:56
Speaker 4: take this momentum that you've been able to build over
4:58
Speaker 4: the past couple weeks and put it to use. And
5:00
Speaker 4: if you can make Okamoto happen, let's make it happen.
5:03
Speaker 4: Because offense is something that has definitely improved over the
5:06
Speaker 4: past couple of weeks, that made some really good moves, But.
5:09
Speaker 2: Pitching has always been a plus.
5:11
Speaker 4: And as we sit here and talk over the past,
5:14
Speaker 4: you know episodes of you know, Keller staying this or that,
5:18
Speaker 4: pitching is still a bonus for you. And if office
5:21
Speaker 4: is something that we came into this off off season
5:23
Speaker 4: saying that we needed to address, make your offense as
5:26
Speaker 4: good as you can and don't cut any corners, because
5:29
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, cutting corners can get
5:30
Speaker 4: you back in a situation where we've always been. Right now,
5:33
Speaker 4: I think you got this momentum that is starting to
5:36
Speaker 4: make Pitchburg look desirable. What we've talked about, you know,
5:39
Speaker 4: with the trades with you know, the signing of O'Hearn.
5:43
Speaker 4: And that's not to say that you have to spend
5:44
Speaker 4: it all on Okamoto or you have to send it
5:46
Speaker 4: spend it on swore Is. But if you're going to
5:49
Speaker 4: going to do what you said, divvy it up, make
5:50
Speaker 4: sure it's not just a divvy it up to where
5:53
Speaker 4: you're trying to use. You know, as you mentioned Connor Griffin,
5:56
Speaker 4: you don't want it to just be something used for
5:58
Speaker 4: half a year. Let's make it a smart investment that
6:02
Speaker 4: you're trying to win not only for the future, but
6:04
Speaker 4: I think you got an opportunity to look like you
6:06
Speaker 4: want to win now. And as I said, if you
6:09
Speaker 4: want to close the deal, whether it's O Komodo's for
6:11
Speaker 4: somebody else or you know, if you make sure that
6:13
Speaker 4: it's something that's going to compliment because I heard you
6:16
Speaker 4: mentioned you know, maybe get a utility guy to play
6:19
Speaker 4: third or that. I think now you have pieces that
6:23
Speaker 4: are pieces that are complimentary pieces that.
6:25
Speaker 2: Can help spell.
6:26
Speaker 4: I think you need to go continue to finish the
6:28
Speaker 4: job and get somebody that you want to continue to
6:30
Speaker 4: make an impact.
6:32
Speaker 1: Mark. What about you, would you rather see them go
6:34
Speaker 1: all in on a guy like Okamoto or would you
6:37
Speaker 1: like to see maybe two or three typical Pirate signings
6:42
Speaker 1: to go around what they've already built this offseason?
6:45
Speaker 3: Absolutely agree with Josh all in on one guy and
6:49
Speaker 3: particularly Okamoto. The options at third base that are left
6:55
Speaker 3: after Okamoto and Suarez really really fall off, I would
7:00
Speaker 3: be okay if they, you know, give like a one
7:02
Speaker 3: year or like one million dollar deal to a guy
7:05
Speaker 3: in the bullpen or a older starter who's trying to,
7:08
Speaker 3: you know, show that he still has it. I think
7:10
Speaker 3: you can get a lot more talent cheaper elsewhere at
7:15
Speaker 3: the other positions of the like catcher, bullpen, maybe a
7:18
Speaker 3: back end starter. And so I feel like the Pirates
7:23
Speaker 3: are so close and you need that offensive push that
7:26
Speaker 3: Okamoto brings. I mean, he had a two hundred and
7:29
Speaker 3: ten ops plus or WRC plus last year in his
7:33
Speaker 3: shortened season. Obviously that's a little bit slanted because of
7:37
Speaker 3: the smaller sample size, but this is a guy who
7:40
Speaker 3: brings serious offense to the lineup. He fills a hole
7:43
Speaker 3: at third base, and if this is the final move
7:46
Speaker 3: of the off season, that's substantial. I feel like that's
7:49
Speaker 3: gonna be perfectly fine for a lot of Pirates fans.
7:52
Speaker 3: They addressed everything they came out to do. If he's
7:55
Speaker 3: the last piece or Suarez even so, yeah, I think
8:00
Speaker 3: I think the plan right now has to be whatever
8:02
Speaker 3: you have left in the budget, spend almost all of
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Speaker 3: it on Okamoto because you're gonna have to to draw
8:10
Speaker 3: him away from two California teams. With the Angels and
8:13
Speaker 3: Padres being the other two teams listed with the West
8:17
Speaker 3: Coast connection to Japan, games are closer to his time zone,
8:22
Speaker 3: it makes a lot of sense for him, any Japanese
8:25
Speaker 3: player to sign with those clubs. But you know, will
8:27
Speaker 3: the Angels be willing, will Arty Moreno open the checkbook
8:30
Speaker 3: for him? The Padres they have Manny Machado, they have
8:34
Speaker 3: a gap at first base kind of, but does he
8:37
Speaker 3: really want to commit to just being a first baseman?
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Speaker 3: And so it makes a lot of sense for I
8:42
Speaker 3: think Okamoyo. He can come in be an impact bat
8:45
Speaker 3: on a team that's on the up and up and
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Speaker 3: be that final piece that really pushes the pirates over
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Speaker 3: the edge.
8:53
Speaker 1: See I'm torn here because I do I hear what
8:58
Speaker 1: you guys are saying, right Like, I think that it
9:00
Speaker 1: sends a great message. I think that he is exactly
9:03
Speaker 1: kind of what they're they should be looking for right now.
9:05
Speaker 1: They need a right handed bat. Third base is probably
9:08
Speaker 1: the number one area that they should be looking to
9:10
Speaker 1: find that production from. He could be a solution for
9:15
Speaker 1: the present and the future. Right Like, this isn't just
9:18
Speaker 1: a one year type of opportunity. But one, I'm skeptical
9:22
Speaker 1: if they even have room and their budget for this
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Speaker 1: guy to begin with. And two, I never think it's
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Speaker 1: a great idea to spend all of your remaining capital
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Speaker 1: on one asset unless that asset is like an absolute, proven,
9:37
Speaker 1: slam dunk type of talent, and Okamoto is not. O.
9:41
Speaker 1: Kamoto's a gambles, like like every other international free agent.
9:45
Speaker 1: Right Like, you don't know if this guy's going to
9:47
Speaker 1: pan out where if you could look at alternatives, I
9:51
Speaker 1: would rather I think the safer play and maybe the
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Speaker 1: more logical play for where they're at, would be a
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Speaker 1: way to say, they have ten to fifteen million to
10:01
Speaker 1: spend find two players where you can split that. I
10:04
Speaker 1: would rather maybe find two seven and a half million
10:08
Speaker 1: dollar players, And I don't think that that's necessarily taking
10:11
Speaker 1: the cheap route, Like would you be better off maybe
10:14
Speaker 1: trading for one year of a rental aled bomb and
10:18
Speaker 1: then using that other seven and a half million, Like
10:21
Speaker 1: seven and a half million dollars could get you two
10:23
Speaker 1: pretty good bullpen arms, or it could get you another
10:27
Speaker 1: solid catcher, like you can get two good rental one
10:31
Speaker 1: year free agents or guys in the final year of
10:34
Speaker 1: arbitration for seven and a half million dollars each. And
10:38
Speaker 1: that's where that's where I struggle with it. If if
10:41
Speaker 1: if you could go into the future and see what
10:44
Speaker 1: Okamoto would pan into, this would be a lot easier.
10:47
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't have that luxury. So I just between yeah,
10:52
Speaker 1: just between the unknown of what their finances are, right,
10:57
Speaker 1: like how much more money do they actually have to
10:59
Speaker 1: spend in two the unknown of Okamoto. It just seems
11:06
Speaker 1: like a risk that I don't see them wanting to take.
11:08
Speaker 1: I know they're tied into it, and if they do,
11:11
Speaker 1: then yeah, like I think that's great and it'll get
11:13
Speaker 1: fans excited. But I don't know if I'm completely thrilled
11:17
Speaker 1: with the bullpen as it currently stands. They probably do
11:20
Speaker 1: need to make a couple of additions, right, and I
11:23
Speaker 1: don't know if.
11:26
Speaker 3: Come July.
11:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And so I just part of me thinks
11:31
Speaker 1: if they get Okamoto, that they're gonna have to make
11:33
Speaker 1: a corresponding move to clear up additional capital. And I
11:39
Speaker 1: don't think this is a team that should be doing
11:41
Speaker 1: that right now. I don't think they're in a position
11:43
Speaker 1: to trade away really anyone that's making any sort of
11:45
Speaker 1: money because the guys that I would move aren't making
11:48
Speaker 1: any money, right Like I would move depth pieces, I
11:51
Speaker 1: wouldn't move a Mitch Keller or a Brian Reynolds or
11:54
Speaker 1: anyone who's making any sort of significant financial stuff. So yeah,
12:00
Speaker 1: that's where I look at it. Any seedback on my thoughts, Fellows.
12:05
Speaker 4: Obviously a little different from what Mark and I said,
12:08
Speaker 4: but I can see you know your thought process with it,
12:11
Speaker 4: because my only question of that is if you were
12:14
Speaker 4: to say, you know, anything is going to be a
12:17
Speaker 4: risk right now, you don't know what's going to pan out.
12:20
Speaker 4: Any contract that you sign or that you you get
12:23
Speaker 4: is a risk. It could be the greatest player, but
12:25
Speaker 4: you run a risk of injuries, You run the risk
12:27
Speaker 4: of not performing you know what you've done in the past. Okamoto,
12:30
Speaker 4: as you said, is going to be a risk. But
12:32
Speaker 4: I think any move that you put right now to
12:34
Speaker 4: cover third base is going to be a risk, whether
12:35
Speaker 4: you go Okamoto or you go somebody trying to be
12:38
Speaker 4: a spot filler. Because you look into say they get
12:40
Speaker 4: off to a good start and they're looking to upgrade,
12:43
Speaker 4: you're going to have to trade for somebody that whether
12:45
Speaker 4: it's the end of the arbitration or somebody that's at
12:47
Speaker 4: the end of the contract, or you know, it can
12:49
Speaker 4: make things not necessarily difficult, because anything can be difficult
12:54
Speaker 4: or as easy as you want it to be. Let's
12:56
Speaker 4: be honest, but I don't think if we're saying what
13:00
Speaker 4: they're comfortable spending, I don't think an extra you know, and.
13:07
Speaker 2: Once again it's not my money, But if their.
13:12
Speaker 4: Goal is to spend, say one hundred and ten million,
13:17
Speaker 4: who's to say that that extra five might not get
13:19
Speaker 4: you a piece that you know, one hundred and ten
13:22
Speaker 4: might need to be bumped on one fifteen. And I'm
13:23
Speaker 4: not sitting here saying that it needs to be. But
13:26
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to limit the capability of where this
13:28
Speaker 4: team could go. If they're really pinching out for a
13:31
Speaker 4: couple you've already gone to say you're going to spend
13:33
Speaker 4: this year, not saying it's spend crazy, but if you
13:36
Speaker 4: thought something was fifteen bucks and it's ended up being twenty.
13:39
Speaker 2: Is that extra five going to be worth it?
13:41
Speaker 4: Or spending that fifteen and then trying to not necessarily
13:45
Speaker 4: cut in the corners. But what if you don't find
13:46
Speaker 4: the right match with the trade on the right pieces.
13:50
Speaker 4: But I know there are a few pieces out there
13:52
Speaker 4: that can be some complimentary pieces. I just think they
13:54
Speaker 4: got to get creative if the Okamoto or Swards route
13:56
Speaker 4: is not going to be it.
13:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, Josh, you won't say that they need to increase
14:01
Speaker 1: the budget. I will. I mean that's what this is
14:03
Speaker 1: all about, right, Like all this talk about how they're
14:06
Speaker 1: all in and how they're gonna try to spend. I mean,
14:08
Speaker 1: credit to the Pirates for making these additions. Right. They've
14:10
Speaker 1: brought in a Brandon Low, they brought in uh top
14:13
Speaker 1: one hundred prospects, they brought they brought in obviously Ryan
14:16
Speaker 1: o'her hearn. The lineup looked better, but they really haven't
14:20
Speaker 1: spent any additional money so far. They're payrolls up to
14:23
Speaker 1: ninety five million, like they're they're right around where they've been.
14:28
Speaker 1: The talk has been that they're going to be more aggressive,
14:31
Speaker 1: that they're going to be different. Sure, they've been different
14:33
Speaker 1: in the sense where they've added more proven talent, they've
14:36
Speaker 1: made more aggressive trades, and they signed a multi year
14:39
Speaker 1: free agent. But if they just stick to if these
14:43
Speaker 1: are the biggest moves they make this offseason, and say
14:46
Speaker 1: they spend the rest of the winter just signing your traditional,
14:49
Speaker 1: you know, three million dollar deal one year relievers, which
14:53
Speaker 1: they should be doing. But if they don't make any
14:56
Speaker 1: other big splashes, all they really did was ad less
15:01
Speaker 1: than ten million to their payroll and just use the
15:05
Speaker 1: money that they sent away in the form of David
15:07
Speaker 1: Bednar and k Brian Hayes. They just reallocated those funds.
15:11
Speaker 1: That's not being different, that's just replacing. Sure, on paper, yes,
15:14
Speaker 1: you spent a ton of offseason, but you also offloaded
15:17
Speaker 1: a ton of money in twenty twenty five, and you
15:20
Speaker 1: haven't spent significantly in recent years, so it's easier to
15:24
Speaker 1: look like you did a lot more than what you
15:26
Speaker 1: actually did. So if you're if you're serious, then this
15:29
Speaker 1: shouldn't be a discussion. This shouldn't be a debate Exactly.
15:31
Speaker 1: You should be going for Okamoto, and you should probably
15:34
Speaker 1: be going for stuff in addition to Okamoto. But and
15:38
Speaker 1: I guess that's what it really boils down to here
15:41
Speaker 1: is how serious? How much do you really want to win?
15:44
Speaker 1: Are you get a little uncomfortable or do.
15:48
Speaker 3: You want to look to other clubs right before the
15:51
Speaker 3: collective bargaining agreement and say, hey, we are trying to
15:54
Speaker 3: spend this money that you're paying to us when you're
15:57
Speaker 3: sharing revenue.
15:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, your your payroll it will be higher than it
16:02
Speaker 1: was last year on opening day, but that's not commendable,
16:06
Speaker 1: right only you can go up dollars. Well, you were
16:10
Speaker 1: worse than you were the last two years. You should
16:13
Speaker 1: be investing more into it. But are you investing a
16:16
Speaker 1: substantially more or a substantially higher number? That's the question here.
16:21
Speaker 1: And they don't go all in on an Okamoto or
16:25
Speaker 1: a Swearz or something else and the payroll sits just
16:27
Speaker 1: around one hundred million, then yeah, they they might have
16:31
Speaker 1: reallocated those resources like more wisely, but it isn't an
16:37
Speaker 1: overall change an investment toward winning. In my opinion, it's
16:41
Speaker 1: just they've spent those dollars better, which isn't I think
16:46
Speaker 1: the overarching issue with this team. It's that there just
16:48
Speaker 1: needs to be a higher commitment. So that's that's where
16:52
Speaker 1: I look at it. But let's let's let's go down
16:55
Speaker 1: this story, because I do think they won't be looking
17:00
Speaker 1: to spend. I don't think they're looking to sign a
17:04
Speaker 1: player who's gonna demand eight figures of an AAV. I
17:07
Speaker 1: think they're probably shopping in a different section of the
17:10
Speaker 1: grocery store at this point. They're looking at contracts at
17:13
Speaker 1: eight million dollars or less probably from here on out.
17:16
Speaker 1: And again, if I'm wrong, I'll happily eat these words.
17:19
Speaker 1: But even if that is the case, you can still
17:24
Speaker 1: add a handful of players who are at that value
17:28
Speaker 1: that make your team better. And we mentioned third base
17:31
Speaker 1: being Okamoto and then potentially being like an Alec Baum.
17:34
Speaker 1: Maybe you get a utility guy like Willie Castro. But
17:37
Speaker 1: I think another position where they could add some value
17:40
Speaker 1: at a price that they're probably more comfortable with would
17:44
Speaker 1: be behind the dish at catcher. They have three catchers
17:48
Speaker 1: right now that they feel comfortable with. Right, Henry Davis
17:51
Speaker 1: is their primary guy. He's gonna catch Steen's, He's probably
17:53
Speaker 1: gonna catch Chandler a lot too. He doesn't provide much offense,
17:57
Speaker 1: and we've been waiting for him to do that for
17:58
Speaker 1: a couple of years now. I think safe to just
18:00
Speaker 1: assume that this is going to be a defensive impact
18:03
Speaker 1: player and anything you get from him offensively as a bonus.
18:07
Speaker 1: Then you have Joey Bart, who's kind of the off opposite.
18:10
Speaker 1: He's not a great defensive player, he hits left. He's
18:13
Speaker 1: really well, and if he can stay healthy, he can
18:15
Speaker 1: maybe be a league average platoon bat. And then you
18:18
Speaker 1: have Roe Flores, the guy who was the highlight of
18:20
Speaker 1: your David Bednar trade return, who might platoon at first base.
18:24
Speaker 1: I don't know if he still fits there now with
18:27
Speaker 1: a heard being here, and I don't really know what
18:31
Speaker 1: his future path with this club is, if it's not
18:35
Speaker 1: being a primary catcher and eventually having Davis be his backup.
18:40
Speaker 1: But I look at the catcher position guys, and I
18:43
Speaker 1: see a handful of options that could make this team better.
18:46
Speaker 1: We've thrown out JT. Real Muto, but there are some
18:50
Speaker 1: other guys as well. One that I want to highlight
18:52
Speaker 1: is Victor Karantini, someone who can play first base and catcher.
18:56
Speaker 1: He's a switch hitter, so you get a little bit
18:58
Speaker 1: of right side production and you look at that. Ops,
19:02
Speaker 1: it's it's not amazing, but it certainly would make this
19:06
Speaker 1: line up a little bit longer. And he boasts some
19:09
Speaker 1: familiarity with the new pitching coach coming over from Houston.
19:12
Speaker 1: He has that connection. I'll ask you, guys, I mean,
19:16
Speaker 1: is karantine if you could get like a Willie Castro
19:19
Speaker 1: and a Victor Karantini, is that better than just an Okamoto?
19:23
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you would be getting a lot
19:26
Speaker 3: of impact that Okamoto could bring as well. Like it's
19:31
Speaker 3: probably the similar impact. But you have to think like, okay,
19:34
Speaker 3: so that makes Jared Triolo and Willie Castro your options
19:37
Speaker 3: probably over at third base. Yeah, and it's like all right,
19:41
Speaker 3: you can get by with that. That's probably like a
19:44
Speaker 3: right around replacement level like zero, like half war maybe
19:48
Speaker 3: from that position then, which is hard.
19:50
Speaker 1: Well, no, I disagree. You're gonna get your win value.
19:53
Speaker 1: It's just you're not gonna get any offensive value. You're
19:55
Speaker 1: gonna get okay of defense, Yeah.
19:58
Speaker 3: You have a goal glove util guy there at third, Yeah,
20:01
Speaker 3: still value. So yeah, I mean I think Garanteine it
20:05
Speaker 3: would be an awesome addition because he can kind of
20:09
Speaker 3: that would be an upgrade to Joey Bart basically where
20:12
Speaker 3: I don't know how confident the Pirates are with Joey
20:15
Speaker 3: Bart catching. Yeah, his bad plays, but if you can't
20:20
Speaker 3: trust him behind the dish and he's going to negate
20:22
Speaker 3: your biggest strength, which is pitching, then it makes him
20:27
Speaker 3: a tough play. So I think if you can bring
20:28
Speaker 3: in a veteran that's going to bring a lot of
20:31
Speaker 3: value and upgrade at a position in need. So yeah,
20:34
Speaker 3: I mean it does make sense. But can you get
20:36
Speaker 3: those two guys for seven million to come to the Pirates?
20:43
Speaker 4: And I mean with the moves that they made, I
20:44
Speaker 4: mean it might not be hard to get them there.
20:47
Speaker 4: As I said, Pittsburgh definitely looks a little bit more
20:49
Speaker 4: desirable than it has in the past. Kartini played against
20:54
Speaker 4: him and something that might actually not necessarily help him.
20:57
Speaker 4: But not only that, you said he's familiar the pitching
21:00
Speaker 4: coach is also familiar with the n L Central. You know,
21:04
Speaker 4: haven't played with the Cubs and I and.
21:06
Speaker 2: The Brewers I believe. I think.
21:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, So anybody that's played in the NL Central obviously
21:12
Speaker 4: a little different now because you only play the teams
21:14
Speaker 4: in your division twice as opposed to three times what
21:17
Speaker 4: it used to be. But still that in L Central
21:19
Speaker 4: has always been a division that I don't like to
21:22
Speaker 4: say is up for grads every year, but it's pretty
21:25
Speaker 4: much up for grads every year because all the teams
21:28
Speaker 4: and we beat up on each other, you know what
21:32
Speaker 4: I mean. So having somebody that knows how to deal
21:34
Speaker 4: with the staff also knows how to deal playing in
21:36
Speaker 4: these places, they just said, could could definitely, you know,
21:39
Speaker 4: be a bonus.
21:40
Speaker 2: And you mentioned Willie Castro.
21:41
Speaker 4: I think Willie was traded there last year so spent
21:43
Speaker 4: to Chicago, So spent a little bit of time playing
21:46
Speaker 4: in EL Central. But as I said, Okamoto would be
21:50
Speaker 4: my go to. But if you had to go, you know,
21:52
Speaker 4: backstop and and you know, use Willy and Triolo. They
21:57
Speaker 4: just said, the offense has already been upgraded. Yes, we're
22:00
Speaker 4: looking to upgrade more if we can. But at the
22:01
Speaker 4: same time, with the pitching we have, you also want
22:04
Speaker 4: to make sure that you take care of the ball
22:05
Speaker 4: on the defensive side. So with that catching is just
22:09
Speaker 4: as important, and if the catchers are not something that
22:12
Speaker 4: they're fully confident in, I don't think it's a bad
22:15
Speaker 4: idea to look into possibly upgrading there because that's definitely
22:19
Speaker 4: a position in my eyes, that is the most important
22:22
Speaker 4: on the field because they see everything, they control everything,
22:25
Speaker 4: and you want to have somebody back there that understands
22:28
Speaker 4: dealing with different pictures, different situations and knowing how to
22:31
Speaker 4: you know.
22:32
Speaker 2: Deal with everything that comes being behind a plate.
22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just look at Karten. He's a guy where
22:38
Speaker 1: you can bring him in and you could probably still
22:42
Speaker 1: have enough money to get something at third base. Like
22:46
Speaker 1: I said, it would probably be a Urias, it would
22:49
Speaker 1: be a Castro, it would be a Mancata, which again
22:52
Speaker 1: those aren't the sexy names that you're picturing there. But
22:55
Speaker 1: if you just look at third base is a place
22:57
Speaker 1: that gives you really good defense, You're gonna have really
23:01
Speaker 1: good defense at third with Triolo a plus any of
23:03
Speaker 1: those names I just mentioned. Mancott is not a great defender,
23:06
Speaker 1: but the other guys that I just mentioned are And
23:09
Speaker 1: then if you get twelve home run pop behind the
23:13
Speaker 1: dish with a Quarantine or maybe even an Adlie Rushman
23:16
Speaker 1: who I think would probably make something similar, maybe a
23:20
Speaker 1: little bit more through arbitration, and he comes with a
23:23
Speaker 1: little bit more control and probably wouldn't cost a ton
23:27
Speaker 1: to choir via trade. I just look at that as
23:30
Speaker 1: like a way where if you look at the production,
23:33
Speaker 1: you would get both offensively and defensively from the combination
23:39
Speaker 1: of Catcher and Third versus what you would potentially get
23:42
Speaker 1: from Mookamoto. I think you might get more value going
23:45
Speaker 1: that route. And it's still actually and I'm not trying
23:48
Speaker 1: to save Bob Nutting any money. That's not my that's
23:51
Speaker 1: not my prerogative here, but it actually might be the
23:54
Speaker 1: smarter play.
23:56
Speaker 3: If I like, of signing one and trading for another.
24:02
Speaker 3: Like another Catcher that I think the Pirates might want
24:05
Speaker 3: to look at is Hunter Goodman from the Rockies. Rockies, Yeah,
24:10
Speaker 3: it quietly had an outstanding career. He was a silver slugger,
24:14
Speaker 3: he was an All Star, had three point seven b
24:17
Speaker 3: war one hundred and twenty ops plus. Maybe if you're
24:21
Speaker 3: trying to offload some prospects for MLB ready guys, I
24:25
Speaker 3: feel like the Rockies would be more than amendable to
24:28
Speaker 3: take in some young talent and start their rebuild because
24:32
Speaker 3: I was a pretty bad baseball team last year, and
24:36
Speaker 3: I feel like Goodman would be a perfect fit. I'm
24:38
Speaker 3: not his defense I think was just around like league average,
24:43
Speaker 3: but another guy with Adley that I think there's a
24:47
Speaker 3: good fit between the teams to make a trade happen.
24:50
Speaker 3: And then just one other free agent, maybe a Gary Sanchez.
24:54
Speaker 3: I feel like he's a little bit I mean he's older,
24:57
Speaker 3: like he only.
24:58
Speaker 1: Caught twenty two villains.
25:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like last year he only played in twenty six.
25:03
Speaker 3: So but yeah, I mean.
25:05
Speaker 1: You might be able to get Gary Sanchez on a.
25:07
Speaker 3: I think, like, yeah, exactly, so one of those guys
25:12
Speaker 3: where it would be like a million bucks probably to
25:14
Speaker 3: get in the.
25:15
Speaker 1: Sign Yeah so if that, yeah, so on the note
25:20
Speaker 1: of a million dollar deals, regardless of how they shure
25:24
Speaker 1: up this lineup, I do think they need to save
25:26
Speaker 1: a couple of million for the bullpen, I don't I
25:30
Speaker 1: don't think they need to make a huge signing, right, Like,
25:34
Speaker 1: I don't know who's even left for them to do that.
25:37
Speaker 3: It's pretty limited.
25:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you're looking at some patch
25:44
Speaker 1: up deals and and that's kind of what the pirates
25:46
Speaker 1: are in the market for at this point anyway, I
25:48
Speaker 1: think they they have their leverage set up right now
25:52
Speaker 1: with with Soto, with Santana probably Mattson somewhere around there
25:56
Speaker 1: as well. But I think you could you could benefit
25:59
Speaker 1: from get another seventh Innian guy, getting someone who has
26:04
Speaker 1: some maybe playoff experience, maybe someone older. I have a
26:07
Speaker 1: couple of names written down and and I think these
26:11
Speaker 1: four all makes sense in their own way. Uh. The
26:14
Speaker 1: first guy I have is Aaron Savally, a guy who's
26:17
Speaker 1: traditionally been a starter. He's been pitching out of the
26:19
Speaker 1: bullpen a little bit lately. Savali's numbers overall haven't been
26:23
Speaker 1: amazing in recent years, but go look at his splits
26:27
Speaker 1: at PNC Park. He yes, he absolutely shoves against the Pirates,
26:34
Speaker 1: especially at PNC Park. He's someone where I wouldn't even
26:39
Speaker 1: be opposed because if you look, I don't know who
26:42
Speaker 1: this team's fifth starter is right now in this rotation.
26:46
Speaker 1: Like they have a pretty good first four with with Skeens, Keller, Chandler,
26:51
Speaker 1: and Ashcraft, but Jones, I don't know if he'll be
26:54
Speaker 1: healthy to start the season, and I don't know if
26:56
Speaker 1: that's a smart idea to rush him to be ready
26:59
Speaker 1: at the start of the season and you have Obviously
27:02
Speaker 1: Barco and Harrington are options, but I don't feel comfortable
27:06
Speaker 1: rushing any of those three. If they're organically ready, that's great.
27:09
Speaker 1: But if rather than going with a Karmen Majinski as
27:12
Speaker 1: your five starter, if you were to get Aaron Savali
27:14
Speaker 1: to just basically be your starter for the first month
27:18
Speaker 1: of the season and just say, hey, we need you
27:20
Speaker 1: to get yeah, stretch out, get you. We need you
27:23
Speaker 1: to be ready to give us five ups six times,
27:27
Speaker 1: and then you know, if you're good, we'll keep you
27:29
Speaker 1: in the rotation. If you're bad, then you're going to
27:31
Speaker 1: the bullpen and we might just dfa you. But I
27:34
Speaker 1: look at him and then three true bullpen arms, Tommy Knally,
27:39
Speaker 1: Sir Anthony Diminga's, two righty's, and then former pirate himself
27:44
Speaker 1: for one whole day Taylor Rogers, the lefty who came
27:48
Speaker 1: over in the Cabrian Yeah, and he was traded a
27:51
Speaker 1: day later, never even wore the uniform. I look at
27:56
Speaker 1: all three of these guys. I think they make a
27:58
Speaker 1: lot of sense from a price point, and I think
28:00
Speaker 1: they're good depth pieces that can be similar to like,
28:04
Speaker 1: and I'm not comparing them all to Caleb Ferguson, because
28:07
Speaker 1: only one of them is left handed, that's Rogers, and
28:09
Speaker 1: he's a totally different pitcher obviously, But like that Caleb
28:12
Speaker 1: Ferguson type deal, one year, three million or less, but
28:16
Speaker 1: someone that you know coming into the season, it's like, yeah,
28:18
Speaker 1: he'll be one of our thirteen that breaks camp and
28:21
Speaker 1: we feel comfortable giving him the ball past the sixth inning.
28:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I kind of along those same lines, I
28:29
Speaker 3: think just one more lefty reliever would really help this bullpen.
28:33
Speaker 3: I mean it's just Soto and Sist.
28:35
Speaker 1: Right now, right and Montgomery.
28:38
Speaker 3: Oh in Montgomery, yeah, of course after the race straight yep,
28:40
Speaker 3: thank you. So I mean, but not to cut.
28:43
Speaker 2: You off, how proven are Montgomery and Sisk.
28:46
Speaker 1: Not at all? Yeah? Yeah, Like Cis did not look
28:49
Speaker 1: good last year and Montgomery is wild, so.
28:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's got the VLO and stuff. We talked exactly.
28:57
Speaker 2: Yep.
28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree, Josh, Yeah, you know, we don't
29:00
Speaker 3: really I mean, outside of Soda, that no proven lefty relievers.
29:04
Speaker 3: So that's where I was looking. I thought Andrew schaffin
29:09
Speaker 3: the uh he kind of looks like the eastbounded down guy.
29:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, my guy.
29:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like I feel like Pittsburgh would just absolutely
29:19
Speaker 3: love him. He's a lefty. In forty two appearances last year,
29:23
Speaker 3: he had a two point four to one ERA, and
29:26
Speaker 3: he brings like a different mix to his fastball and sinker.
29:30
Speaker 3: Both are like under ninety miles per hour. So it's
29:33
Speaker 3: just like, I feel like that might bringing right after
29:36
Speaker 3: Paul Skeens. You bring in Andrew Chaffin, and it's just like,
29:39
Speaker 3: what am I looking at now? So I thought he
29:42
Speaker 3: could make some sense or maybe like a Colby Allard
29:46
Speaker 3: from the Guardians. He's only twenty eight, had a two
29:50
Speaker 3: point six three e RA and thirty three games for
29:52
Speaker 3: the Guardians. It's kind of similar to Shaffan where he
29:55
Speaker 3: doesn't bring much velocity at all, but he had. He
29:59
Speaker 3: doesn't walk anyone, aler, doesn't win five point three percent
30:03
Speaker 3: walk right and basically doesn't allow any hard contact, so
30:06
Speaker 3: you just missus barrels and could be another addition that
30:10
Speaker 3: wouldn't be too expensive. So those were a couple of
30:14
Speaker 3: names I throughout.
30:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, just to just to piggyback off of the names
30:18
Speaker 4: that y'all through, I agree adding a lefty to the bullpen.
30:22
Speaker 4: We know Soto's there, but to be able to have
30:25
Speaker 4: another left you you want to be able to have
30:27
Speaker 4: those matchups. And even mentioning Savali Noah with having a
30:33
Speaker 4: fifth starter not being completely sold on, you know, a
30:36
Speaker 4: young guy if they're not ready, I think it makes
30:38
Speaker 4: sense because Savally, as you mentioned, as a guy who's
30:40
Speaker 4: been a starter I got.
30:41
Speaker 2: I faced him when I was with the White Sox.
30:43
Speaker 4: He was with Cleveland, but then there'd be some games
30:45
Speaker 4: where it might be, Oh, this guy's coming out the pen.
30:48
Speaker 4: He's gonna be their long relief. Cleveland had a lot
30:51
Speaker 4: of injuries that you're Shane b you know, they had
30:53
Speaker 4: some guys, so he was in and out the bullpen starting,
30:57
Speaker 4: but he was a guy through strikes And to me,
31:00
Speaker 4: I think PNC, I didn't even know his numbers, but
31:02
Speaker 4: I think P and C would be a good part
31:04
Speaker 4: for him with his pitch of mixes. And then you
31:09
Speaker 4: really got me excited about my boy Andrew Schaffin. Got
31:12
Speaker 4: to spend time with him when I got traded to Oakland.
31:14
Speaker 4: He was traded to Oakland at the same time, faced
31:17
Speaker 4: him when he's with Arizona. But getting to play with
31:20
Speaker 4: him just you know, confirmed that you know, he's definitely
31:25
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even say an interesting guy, but he really
31:28
Speaker 4: he's a cool dude. Everybody loved Chafing. But he's gonna
31:31
Speaker 4: get on the mount. He's gonna he's gonna grab the
31:33
Speaker 4: ball and he's gonna come at you. Fastball, sinker, a
31:37
Speaker 4: little bit of slider, but uh pitches the contact. But
31:40
Speaker 4: one thing about him is he's gonna go out and
31:43
Speaker 4: get out. It's not to say that he's not human.
31:45
Speaker 4: Everybody's human, but from a left handed side, he's a
31:47
Speaker 4: dude that, as you said, he's gonna pitch with his fastball,
31:50
Speaker 4: his sinker. He got some really big outs for us
31:52
Speaker 4: the time that we played together in Oakland and then
31:54
Speaker 4: you know, obviously throughout his career he's still been doing it.
31:57
Speaker 4: But that was one arm when you said lefty that
31:59
Speaker 4: I could get behind because he's been in those different situations.
32:02
Speaker 4: He I mean, not power stuff like you said, but
32:05
Speaker 4: he's been a closer. At one point, he's pitched the
32:07
Speaker 4: eighth inn and he's pitched you know, you know, had
32:10
Speaker 4: to come out of the pen. So that's a lefty
32:12
Speaker 4: that has been able to you know, pitching different areas
32:15
Speaker 4: of the bullpen. That and also helped you know a
32:18
Speaker 4: other situation where he's not just the left left guy.
32:21
Speaker 2: You can put him in, trust me.
32:23
Speaker 4: Go get the right he's and he's facing three rightis
32:24
Speaker 4: three up, three down, you know, pitching with a sinker.
32:27
Speaker 4: And those are guys that definitely add value, guys that
32:30
Speaker 4: can get both lefties and righties out. And that's the
32:33
Speaker 4: other thing I was gonna ask as we sat here.
32:36
Speaker 4: There are no left handed starters either, are there.
32:38
Speaker 1: There's only one in Hunter Bark and he's a prospect.
32:41
Speaker 2: But but but you said you weren't sure, So.
32:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes sense to be able to get another
32:47
Speaker 4: lefty that you might need to match up, whether it's
32:49
Speaker 4: Taylor Rogers, which I know can be to me, he
32:52
Speaker 4: gives me a little bit of Tony Watson angle.
32:56
Speaker 2: So you know, I was the I was done. No,
33:00
Speaker 2: I was done.
33:02
Speaker 1: Couple notes, So Savally in thirty eight and a third
33:05
Speaker 1: innings at PNC Park, he has a one four to
33:07
Speaker 1: one earned on average, So yeah, he's he's He's twenty
33:12
Speaker 1: nine strikeouts, only six walks over that. His whip is
33:16
Speaker 1: zero point seven five seven, So yeah, pretty good numbers.
33:21
Speaker 1: And then my other final thought on the bullpen is
33:23
Speaker 1: this above all other areas right now might be where
33:26
Speaker 1: they need to address via trade, cause you can find
33:30
Speaker 1: a lot of solid bullpen pieces that are still pre arb.
33:33
Speaker 1: You know, guys who might be that tweener kind of
33:36
Speaker 1: like what Josh described Savali as during his time in Cleveland,
33:39
Speaker 1: right where he could be their length guy when they
33:41
Speaker 1: would go bullpen game. He could be their number five
33:43
Speaker 1: starter if someone was injured. A lot of teams have those.
33:46
Speaker 3: Guys, Carmen Maginski, Yeah.
33:48
Speaker 1: Yes, go trade for another one of those guys who
33:51
Speaker 1: cost absolutely nothing. Trade away a couple of prospects who
33:55
Speaker 1: aren't anywhere close to the major leagues anyway. That might
33:59
Speaker 1: This might be the area on your roster that you
34:02
Speaker 1: use to add through trade, because you save that money
34:05
Speaker 1: to spend on offense. That's where those dollars should be going.
34:09
Speaker 1: Use your prospect capital, of which you have not spent
34:12
Speaker 1: any of really this offseason on ensuring up your bullpen,
34:15
Speaker 1: because you shouldn't have to trade a ton of prospect
34:17
Speaker 1: capital to make this bullpen go from what I look
34:20
Speaker 1: at is like league average right now to being above
34:23
Speaker 1: average with a couple of correct trades. So, guys, any
34:26
Speaker 1: final thoughts before we wrap up now?
34:28
Speaker 3: Just happy New Year everyone, and hopefully the momentum keeps
34:33
Speaker 3: rolling here.
34:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, same, Happy new year.
34:36
Speaker 4: Hit the subscribe button and let's keep the momentum rolling
34:39
Speaker 4: both on Bucko Territory and with the Pirates offseason series.
34:43
Speaker 1: Absolutely, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. We are getting closer and closer
34:47
Speaker 1: to that one thousand subscriber. Mark want to remind everyone
34:50
Speaker 1: to do it and do it quickly or take your time.
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Speaker 1: As long as you do it, that's the big part.
34:56
Speaker 1: He's Platinum keyaka Mark, He's Josh Harrison akaj Hey, I'm
34:59
Speaker 1: Noah high. I was saying thank you as always for
35:01
Speaker 1: tuning in to another episode of Bucco Territory, presented by
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Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network