Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 531 - Why Are Most "Jazz Clubs" In Vietnam Completely Missing The Point? - Tri Pham

Transcript

531 - Why Are Most "Jazz Clubs" In Vietnam Completely Missing The Point? - Tri Pham · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
0:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Today my guess is fun.
0:03
[SPEAKER_00]: One G. Welcome to the podcast.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, hello.
0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
0:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So we talked about what I do.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: in hearing stories.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And Gee was telling me how grateful he was to have me invite him on to the show.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said to him, this is an actual dream of mine to have jazz music on this show for so many, so many years in my life.
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you why it's important to have jazz music in Vietnam.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll start with the idea of improvisation, and the idea of like coming up with creative ways to express, and having you in the form of a person, a modern Vietnamese person who can play jazz guitar, is such a special treat along my journey as a Vietnamese American.
1:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to the podcast.
1:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you so much.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's my pleasure.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, through to be here and share with you my stories,
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot to cover.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what we're going to talk about first is your journey into jazz music and why.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: you got to arrive at where you are because it's not one of those things we're just anybody listens to jazz music and young people.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like young people were just gravitating to jazz music.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a very special person to really get into jazz.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So how did you get into it?
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, I didn't get into jazz first.
1:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think I, um,
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I started learning music since I was 13 years old, and I tried to learn some basic Vietnamese pop songs and then try to play some run-in-go, run-in roses, and then radio hat, and then a little bit later, total, super-traum, older rock bands, right?
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in my high school time, my teacher introduced me to a Japanese fusion band.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and it means fusion, it means that they mixed the chast and rock together.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yeah, I really love that.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just called Castle Pierre.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Castle Pierre.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So your teacher, your Vietnamese teacher, music teacher, in Vietnam, introduce you to these bands.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because I went to the conservatory of music.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Ho Chi Minh, you see the conservatory of music?
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And in high school, because last night's the April College program.
2:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And this teacher, how did he know these bands?
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he just hurt that on the radio.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's a, uh, how can I say?
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Vietnamese Australian.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who is he?
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, his name is Lady, and he went to the US to study.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he went back to Vietnam to teach it to.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's that's why we met in the conservatory there.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he, he told me not to check this out.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, wow, they had the,
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: the rock energy, but they also have the chess intellect.
3:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I really, I really love that because it's very cool complicated and I can't understand the rock energy and the clues influences, but I have no idea about the chess,
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and after a few years of studying to play that one and listening to that one, I decided to pick a little bit deeper through the chessboard.
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then I found a lot of great jazz music from the 40, 15, and 16.
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So for especially Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, John Goetrain, so the Rollings, and
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get into all of that.
4:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that I did a good enough intro.
4:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's what I mean by that.
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing about jazz music for me growing up in America was that I got to see it and hear it in a lot of the clubs here in LA.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I got to Vietnam for the first few years, I would see the shirts and lounge or a different acoustic rooms, jazz music, but it was played.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You could feel standards that were being played.
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: There was no really improving.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: People weren't just making up things and jamming inside of these bars and lounges.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a very like, something inside of a human,
4:50
[SPEAKER_00]: can tell what we're listening to, right?
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We can, you know, again, my language in jazz is not rich enough to kind of really pinpoint what I'm hearing, but I just know that it wasn't the same sounds that I was hearing growing up in LA, going to jazz clubs in LA.
5:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Where there's this sort of like, it's not accidental, but it's just like,
5:15
[SPEAKER_00]: it's constant like birth of notes that you just don't hear and when you're listening to like this type of music in Vietnam in the early 2000s it just sounded very practice rehearsing and old and didn't sound like it was like fresh and and and and doing it's
5:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Spontaneous, spontaneous, didn't feel intellectual, and I don't know what that is.
5:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So to be able to sit here, and I'm missing that in my whole intro, to be able to sit here today with somebody like you, and you know there's N. and John who's a jazz saxophonist and a father,
5:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I am actually really, really so happy and I'm like, you know, I'm a big fan of the things that people like you do.
6:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to know, how did you know when you were being introduced by Leswee, really?
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, teacher.
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, teacher.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That these were sounds that you could actually approach with some sort of technique and that this was something that you could do.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow, it's really hard to find the answer for that, but I think it's old.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about our curiosity and honesty, right?
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, first, when I first listened to chess, I think in, for 15 or 14 years old, I didn't really understand it.
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I understand rock first, right?
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I understand that Japanese fan, fusion fan is for Castle P, because they have both,
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: jazz and rock energy.
6:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then later with my curiosity, yeah, I, I, I, I tell myself, hey, let's, let's try to make a little bit deeper to the jazz work, right?
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then later, I, I fall in love with, uh, bebop, parkbop, um, presently in music.
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, I don't know, something that you're wake up and, and, and you, you can, you're in it.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're just, you're just in it.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You're playing it.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's the same with coffee.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I love coffee.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Just so you're wake up in a like I love this train or yeah, and yeah, and the more the more curious you are and
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: the more you want to understand what is that, and then the more you love that, because you see a whole structure behind improvisation.
7:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So something that we can understand the easiest way, I think I can say is to deform.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So most of the chess all play a melody, improvise a little bit, then play a
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: 12 bar or 16 bar or 32 bar and no matter it is it and very traditional jazz to a very contemporary jazz today.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The form is something that is there in the jazz culture.
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just love that a lot.
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And listen.
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one thing about being an American and one thing about being very proud about being an American for me is the ability to point back to the jazz tradition and say,
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Many Americans understand that it's there and the creativity that has come from jazz music has led into other design elements of the world that we live in.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's hard to explain that, like we've been just like a few minutes and just conversant with each other, but I do believe that when we think about American ingenuity,
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of it comes from this idea of jazz improvisation from the American tradition of really letting go and experiencing that.
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something I feel like, not just Vietnam, but Asia for a long time, didn't sort of have that.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And Japanese, I think, started to adapt it.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's slowly, I think, bleeding into the world of, you know,
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: all over Asia.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But now, having you in the live form here, it's now starting to, I think, blossom in Vietnam.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's, I'm hearing that it's starting with rock and heavy metal.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when we think about those forms of rock music, there are ways to say that it's
10:02
[SPEAKER_00]: The best way I can explain it is a little bit safer.
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, safer, right?
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's things that you don't need to really just go and explode and just really try with these different notes that are outside of certain chord progressions.
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's safer, you can just sort of like, exist in this, but the energy is like, it's just, you put out a lot of energy when you play.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No, in rock music, right?
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's safer playing wise and also safer for the audience expectation to, for example, if we, if we listen to Hotel California, right?
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: In the guitar solo, the audience would love to hear the exactly solo, right?
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's must be that one.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's, you have a little less chance for your creativity and
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: less risk-tacking in your way and playing, you know, but in jazz is everything goes.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in a moment, spontaneous and live playing live, right?
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you, when you in the studio, you make a mistake.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just over-up that part of it's that, but in jazz.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: especially live in studio session or playing live, right?
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: In a jazz club, it's too late to fix a mistake.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So you need to be honest and you need to accept that and work on that.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, honest.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You said honest a few times.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that even mean, honest?
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you use the word honest when you talk about improvisation and jazz?
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything, I think, because that's the core art.
11:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Any kind of art, you must to be yourself first, right?
11:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But for example, when we do something that we think, oh, your audience will love this one.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Your customer will like this desire or something.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You sacrifice your creative reading a little bit.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm in honesty and curiosity is all about you first.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you are the first audience, right?
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The first listen.
12:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, up your music, right?
12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you must be honest with yourself first.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you know how do you know
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: if you're being honest or dishonest with yourself.
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's right, because that's hard.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm thinking about the difference between rock music and jazz.
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're telling me that
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a hard thing to play with right now, right?
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I think I have a teacher.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, a teacher.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: A tips before me whenever I do something, if it's honest on a, it's just, it's just imagine that if no one, listen to your music, no one, watch your, your envy, no one, by your seeing, no one come to your fans.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you do?
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we, we still play.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we still compose.
12:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you play for yourself first.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that's the first relationship with with with my music right.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I pick up my guitar because
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to learn this amazing machine, to understand the machine, the guitar.
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I want to understand the music.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And just want to learn how to play the major chord.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and how to tune the guitar.
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything's about audience, about fans, about followers, about likes.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's come later.
13:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't want to be hyperbolic, and I don't want to just be really exaggerating how I feel right now.
13:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel so...
13:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've been doing this podcast for a few years, and today is one of those days where I feel like what you're saying and how Vietnam has changed is right here.
13:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in this space.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this idea of honesty and music, I feel like Paris, my night.
13:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like everything here from all of that world.
13:52
[SPEAKER_00]: is done so that the audience enjoys it.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you are done for the artists to feel
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: the creativity.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe they think they're exploring some form of their freedom, but they're not because they're seeing cover songs, right?
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not singing something that they wrote, typically, it's not something that they perform spontaneously, right?
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We really care about what people think, and it's not honest in that way, right?
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I see, and to really say this and really examine art from this perspective, which is well, how do you be honest with everything, right?
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I'm playing guns and roses at 14, and I'm playing patience or switch out of mind, right?
14:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm November rain.
14:54
[SPEAKER_00]: The audience said that because nobody at that time is knowing, but you enjoyed it.
14:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's still not yours.
15:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And now when you're talking about like jazz pure jazz.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just do anything you want.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think, especially we are.
15:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in LA now, right?
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I come from Asia, so you can see the Hollywood, the K-pop, or you mentioned about a Paris by night, right?
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The common thing between them, I think is the post-production culture.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's always need to be edited somehow and need to be,
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: are polished right right yeah we're problem with that no no I don't really brought it up yeah yeah I brought it up yeah and I think mistick is so important because if you listen to my recording I make a lot of mistick from there yeah and then if you listen go to my gig I make a lot of mistick but how do you know to mistake is it's in jazz if you consider it out of mistick yes we'll be a mistick yeah and if you and if you think that's yeah that's a mistick but like just learn from that yeah just just accept
16:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a part of, up learning, of, of making progress, you do you know if it's a mistake during the performance or is it a mistake after when you analyze that mistake?
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of most of the time, right at the moment, I make that.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought of, oh, and is it really important?
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, do we know that it's a mistake?
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think so.
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you would know.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, but only you would know if it's a mistake because you're playing within a frame, right?
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at least like they're the set of corporation or automatically or something.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know that.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this might be a mistake, right?
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think other people in your band or when they're jamming?
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, they know.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we sure.
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially you, you lost the phone, right?
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you play a, this, this is not over over this court and it's so, so bad, right?
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you, as the audience member know that it, because jazz is discordant.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's this notes and in the way the sound comes out.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: No, how do we know?
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think jazz is so, let's, let's, let's take an example.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: a hundred years ago, right?
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: 1920, 1930, right?
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just at that time, it's just swing wheels.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Poppin' wheels.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and people dancing.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But very easy to listen, right?
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So especially Duke Elington or Calvary Zabikman, right?
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Just music to just totally, to enjoy to dance, right?
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But later, in 1940, World War II, right?
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you'll see something like B-Bop and then later, Harkbop.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: like protest kind of music.
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit more Yeah, more tough, right?
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after that, you hear something like Chad Baker on mouse letters, cool jazz, right?
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Very easy to listen.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the beautiful thing about jazz.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: is some people play very consonant.
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people play very disson and some people play very loud.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people can play very quiet.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people play a lot of notes in some people can play just a few notes.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all jazz, it's all music.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why it's on as your choice.
18:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, honestly, if you want to play a lot and play a lot, do that.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if you don't want to do that, don't do that.
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think that's that's the special thing about jazz and and also I think that's that's a very special gift up.
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: of the U.S. to the word, because you can mix that with your traditional music, like jazz, with Brazilian, with Indian, with Turkish music, right?
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And mix it with Vietnamese music, right?
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow it cannot become something very beautiful, like like, like, I really love
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Artists, like he makes a lot of traditional Vietnamese element, and then a lot of chess element, and then he finally has always been up doing his art, really amazing, you know, so it's very open.
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: When you and I started the conversation together, we talked about pedigree, we talked about lineage, we talked about
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: how you end up sitting in America, in San Francisco in the Bay Area, and the lineage that you come from, you talk about Louis Armstrong.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about Mao's Davis, John Coltrane, all the greats coming down to you.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's an unbroken lineage.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So we please talk about that.
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I feel that.
20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: especially as a jazz musician, and if you come to the US and you're studying here, that's really amazing, because it's very different with classical music.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, if you want to listen how Lewis Armstrong's sound 100 years ago, you can find a video and audio, but imagine if you want to listen to Mozart,
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: just know where you can hear the recording at that time or the tap like video tap, right?
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's the first thing we have the access to see the technology that capture the sound and the video at that time, right?
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And also the history of jazz is much shorter compared to classical music, like classical, we have 300, 400 years.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just a little bit more than 100 years.
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And all over Europe, too.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but in the US it's only a few places where a few places, right, right, and then and then you see that like um loose ham strong way and right after that, his student is um Duke, Elington, Calvacy, and then the next generation of them
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Charlie Parker, Visi Gillespie, yeah, and then the student of known mouse Davis, right John Cole-Train, right and the student of him, Chikurian, Harvey Hancock, John Skulfew, right, and then student, the next generation, Kerper's then Winkle, Villa, Haxleman, yeah, and now you.
21:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm very lucky to study with these guys.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of chance to study, especially with Skolfi, or Rosthen Wingo, and Yelaxi.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think that you were allowed or picked or chosen to be part of them?
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: their lineage.
21:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to talk about the black culture in a little bit, because you're not black.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're not American.
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Very good to me.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think that you're allowed to be in that club?
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate to say a lot.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because, um,
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's really, really great questions for me because when you come to the US, it's so hard to see who is the US citizen, right?
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You could be black, you could be white, you could be Hispanic, you could be Asian, yeah, and sandwich ass.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: you can be black, you can be white, and then you can be Asian, and then you can be, um, I don't have black and half his Spanish.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, that's, that's a very special work for them.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Creo, Creo, so yeah, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm not so sure about that.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Me neither, so yeah, yeah, please don't hold me free.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Creo, Creo, yeah, I think half, half Spanish and half, um, half black.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think, what is it in your soul?
22:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that lineage gets passed down and you can pass to play?
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think because we share the same emotion.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter you black a wine agent, when you hear some, some saps song, you might feel a little bit sadder, right?
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: see if we want our happy song, we want to dance, right?
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, at some especially when I come here, I see that somehow we, we are very similar, especially on the on the the way that we express and we, our emotion, yeah, we all sat some someday, we're all happy someday, we all,
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We all get maps sometimes, right?
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We all tired sometimes.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, I have noticed the share and the answer.
23:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yeah, I was in New York a few months ago.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jim, she's a Jack saxophonist.
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to be sitting here soon with our episode with her.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked her New York, I said,
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you at a point in your life when you can close your eyes, listen to some jazz, and know if it's a black musician?
24:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's obvious.
24:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's obvious.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very obvious.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me about that?
24:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is that?
24:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you answer the same with chance or it's very obvious.
24:24
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it about closing your eyes and listening to music and go, that's a black American, African American.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: because we're all different somehow, right?
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And, man, it's so hard to explain.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But you could feel it.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think, generally, when you listen to a white,
24:53
[SPEAKER_01]: jazz musician, let's say, Chad Baker, Bill Evans, right?
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing in common is they're very, very chantel, very chai and more intellectual on the approach.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very, very intellectual and very, I can say chantel.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, for black musician, let's say John Goatran
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Herbie Hancock, right?
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: A wind shorter.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so expressive, right?
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow it's very spiritual too.
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
25:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And because this, this, that's their own heritage.
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of their heritage.
25:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because they're.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
25:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's why they sound white.
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because they sound white.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: White.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that's their heritage and their nature.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard to to explain to me, but I think it's all about it, then nature and their heritage.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're talking about the black musicians or the white music.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, especially black the black musicians.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of clues, a lot of struck go, a lot of racism, a lot of tension in their life, right?
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And why it's so, like,
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit more educated.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, when the school's 30 classical music before they learn how to play jazz, right?
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a little bit more reserved.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, right, right.
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And but like, I'm just talk about it 15 to 60 and 70.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But like now with it, access of like school, college and the culture, a change, like,
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard to to recognize one wide, black musician.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like all Asian music is playing.
26:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's a little bit more difficult.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now it's much more difficult.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to me now it's okay.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you listen to records from the past, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, especially from the 60s or 50s.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's face it, a lot of the feelings of like a mouse Davis when he was playing came from a lot of drugs.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that history is not in our music groups, right?
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not in the Vietnamese sort of like,
27:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't happen if you know I can be I can be wrong, but I think I'm guessing for the most far Yeah, the heroin usage for the drugs is not as heavy as the 50s and the 60s before we have a really bad reputation for Chath music in the 50s, 60s and the 70s, but yeah, does it really affect the music?
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure I never used that, and I don't know.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and but as I read and as I talk to your professor, to my professor and talk to some real, real, real amazing chastolation, leaving land.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I used to use to use to, and then went to jail and being homeless, yeah.
28:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And they all tell me that like, let's make them, and leave it more fearless.
28:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, more free, more fearless.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
28:13
[SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, to be themselves more.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not being judged by the same by the peers.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that isn't tempt you.
28:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Come, you know, and to do to just step into it a little bit and try it so you can free yourself for.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think maybe not yet.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think too big, because especially in the 60 and 70, jazz musician has a really bad reputation in that.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, a lot of jazz school opened at that time in a 60, right?
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people get more where they took, where they took it, and then they have more awareness about that one.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the core of creating, it's not about using trucks or not using trucks.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's about yourself.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can see the evolution of the human spirit, where the awareness of being honest and open, like you said, and being able to think about the intention of what you're trying to do.
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: would probably be bigger and more important than the quick shortcut of using drugs.
29:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's much more important because it's heavier.
29:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's heavier lift.
29:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's much harder.
29:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's much harder to be able to do that stuff.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think people might be feeling it in a different way as well.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I think like,
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure why, but I think that's a part of the culture in the 50 and the 60 because you know, jazz.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's has a fondum 20.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of thing to deal with about all the prostitution and then drugs.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, I mean, you read some of Quincy Jones's description of the times that he lived in the, I think it was the 60s, you know, 60s and 70s as a big band arranger and you read how adventurous his life is, you know.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What a beautiful time, you know, for him.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: When we think about Quincy Jones today, we think about like pop music with Michael Jackson, and you know, working with Stephen Spielberg in a very, you know, American kind of flavor sort of like safe place, but I think what he was coming up in the jazz scene in the sixties and seventies was it was very dangerous.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very dangerous.
30:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, drugs.
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a lot.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how, especially in the 60s, a lot of people get problem with rock and when you jail and come back and become amazing musicians who, yeah, and they used to be there in the used to be homeless too.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for example, one of my heroes is Jimmy Heath.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when the jail gives a lot of trust and then come back, you come one of the best music jazz musician, jazz musician, you know, and jazz, best educator, yeah, yeah.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when you think about what K-pop has done to the Vietnamese music scene, how do you feel?
31:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's that's heavily influenced.
31:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a huge course.
31:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I mean, is it a good thing?
31:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how do you feel about all that?
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it due to you when you see the influence of K-pop and Vietnam in V-pop and Vietnamese music and trends that are really taking off in this very successful Vietnam because of K-pop traditions?
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, I'm sure it's good, it's good, but it's good on a commercial side and then everything is delivered more well organized as more structure.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing that I don't think it's good is we lose a lot of our identity, musical identity and ways of expression and it just sounds like a not a capable sound.
32:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I just, I don't think that's a good way.
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for, I think for music business, it's really good because we can sound too care.
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We can, we can, we can, can, can, can, yeah, sound a lot of too care and using the name of the artist to promote a lot of products.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We like, like, some songs, songs, and that's the business, that's the industry.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And they care about the artist more than the music.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try what I mean, if you artists love that brand, let's say, the phone, right?
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And use that to promote.
33:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might buy that.
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You might buy that one.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you are artists promote for this reshring, yeah, and you might go to that one.
33:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And after, after a long time,
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You just don't care about their music, not much, you care about dumb, their life.
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And saying, oh, this is what they love, this is what they do, I love them so much, I want to meet them and want to go to their concert and then the music is less and less important.
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow you accept anything that they love.
33:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But in chess, and especially audience music like classical music, rap, hip-hop, or jazz,
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the fan is really, really, truly, like, a true listener.
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they really, really critical about your works.
33:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they can say that.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I love this, but I don't love this one.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And are you trying to build a fan follower like base for yourself because jazz is so difficult to understand and anywhere?
34:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you go to the US Vietnam Spain.
34:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, jazz is a difficult to understand.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: then.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you find yourself trying to build a fan base?
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to share, but I want to share my love for Chass through a lot of way, performing, making music, teaching, or...
34:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just come to to to to show up my friends and and support them and listen, you're right.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't really care about the followers.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because like now it is it's so easy to to run a campaign and get more followers and more likes.
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't do that, how do you get the word out about your shows or who you do, you know, what kind of music you're doing if you.
34:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I get it.
34:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand you know what you really care about his
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I know why you asked that because whenever I make some show, it's so hard to get to go.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard, especially for a new city.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: No people know who you are.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't know.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the city too.
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And how to how to make the the concert there, right?
35:20
[SPEAKER_01]: How to sell ticket and how to connect with them.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I don't know, it's just so hard.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I've been interviewing obviously a lot of Vietnamese American singers or Vietnamese singers.
35:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I'm beginning to learn that 50% of the work that you have to do is the craft of music.
35:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to play the music.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to get good at your performing.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be good at a good musician.
35:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other 50% now, I mean, you can argue it's 100% and 100% eight hours of music practice, eight hours of content creation now.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's very important.
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a more than artists.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be a musician.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be a and promote content creator and you need to book the gigs yourself.
36:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know.
36:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Jade, you know that there's musicians out there that are not even one half of your craftsman ship.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're super fun.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're super successful super successful.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of the game, the modern game of artistry musicianship.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really working on your social media content.
36:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard to do now.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I sure.
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so hard.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you're lucky enough, you do something and people love that.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: They want really one, two, so four year, right?
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But in chess, it's a little bit deeper because we don't have lyrics.
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, with like instrumental music, it takes a little bit longer.
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and also as a young musician, I thought that the more I learned about jazz and the more I learned about my heritage, Vietnamese heritage, I wanted to say something, create some story and maybe the story that makes you have more more audience.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but now, and...
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, at this moment, I'm just, I'm just still figuring it out.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you create more story as a jazz musician, Vietnamese jazz musician?
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, kind of story you're talking about.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, just, just leave, right?
37:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And think about what do you have, like your family's story, your personal story.
37:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And imagine if you just study at the practice room practice,
37:34
[SPEAKER_01]: 60 an hour a day, what kind of story will you have for some of the story?
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just just a graph, the technique, right?
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think the most important is to leave and to the thing about your family, your story.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you can't use words when you perform, can you?
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So why not?
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to read.
37:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The word has the advantage of telling things.
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: very clearly.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sad today.
38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so lonely tonight.
38:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that, right?
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the instrumental is more about your emotion and more sonic way to touch yourself.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and it's more, it touch your instinct more.
38:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whenever you hear some big sound, your instinct will tell you that something dangerous is happening around you.
38:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you here?
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that?
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: the waterfall, next to you, order and the running from the south to the rent, you can trust them.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You're saying, oh, it's not an interest and I can relax with this one.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And we never think that, oh, the south the rent is out to you.
38:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like, not enough of compression on the rent or not enough of base or on the lake on the earth.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just heat your emotion so strong, right?
39:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure it's more, it's more abstract.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's text more of your time.
39:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and the more you think about yourself, the more you be honest with them, the more you love them.
39:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And do what you love first.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe maybe an order, an order, or
39:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, an other guy or an other audience.
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: My field is the same way with you and they love your music.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't, it's still abstract and it's up to you.
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's up to your background, it's up to your starly.
39:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, it's okay to love Chatham.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very okay to hate them.
39:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And just what what's next for you.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that you're at the San Francisco conservatory right now.
39:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
39:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's what's the next five ten years for you?
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's a big question for me.
40:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think as a first one, try try to find more story and try to learn how to tell them by my composition by my way playing
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I thought I heard.
40:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not right.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't say that on the podcast, man.
40:21
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it just fine more.
40:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You said that to me earlier.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just kidding.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we need you to get to, we need you to elevate that way.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that Vietnamese community doesn't get it.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Get all of this.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
40:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But so, yeah, so you're trying to do more, you know, record more and make movie music more and there's a lot more.
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the most important is please more.
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, leave more first and then and then it's.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: If I want to say something through my music, and just do that.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Just talk about this live more, give me some examples of you wanting to live more.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Live more?
40:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean by that?
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: come here to see you, to talk with you.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I just practice and I don't know and like I can I say, just just practice all the time is not good.
41:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how can we know each other, right?
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have, we have Nam is is a common friends, right?
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then introduce with us.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then try to sleeping is very important to the artists.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, right.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think one, one up there, one up the way up,
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: doing what all the people do to like like you need to do something like for the day job to do pay the bills right yeah you need to play some wetting gigs teach some some students student right and do some yeah yeah and and make money and
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of make a living with with your music first and try about thinking or having a career with that right and learn about people's story and then learn about your story and go travel, right or what you're doing is living you listen to people's story.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm living.
42:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I'm living.
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I live.
42:08
[SPEAKER_00]: A very, you know, wild and crazy existence sometimes, you know, I really enjoyed the way I'm living.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to know.
42:19
[SPEAKER_00]: what your way of living in the next five, 10 years.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of life do you want to live to create the music that I want to listen to?
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: What can you do?
42:34
[SPEAKER_00]: How can you live that is going to create so much internal soy noise?
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: excitement and and and vibrancy.
42:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to do to are you going to try to form love more?
42:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to cook more?
42:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Go hike out.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your idea of of living more?
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
42:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let me see.
42:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can I can I can start with my example for me.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I try to
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of lived dangerously sometimes.
43:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I go to places where rough neighborhoods, I date women that are not from backgrounds that are similar to mine, that are not the same in educational, maybe super high educated, or super lowly, it is a matter to me, right?
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But to live for me outside of my comfort zone is when I'm always trying to do.
43:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I'll roll up into a casino with some friends and spend, you know, like, hours and come home in the morning hours and
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: sitting and having all of these experiences, I think, is for me.
43:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to think of it as sometimes, looting dangerously.
43:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Within the confines of, you know, I want to be healthy for my kids and not do crazy things like drugs anymore, smoke, and do all that stuff.
44:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do want to push my comfort zone and be in places without a lot of friends that know me.
44:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then around friends that know me that we can share stories together.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm at the time of my life where I want to be around people that don't know me.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know them.
44:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very uncomfortable.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not sleeping for me.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that too because I love the feeling of being a little uncomfortable, being a little more challenging for you.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's that's where you grow.
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
44:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you grow for.
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, going to the U.S.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a challenging for me too.
44:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when I when I visit here, they try to explore all the neighborhood, right, for example, the in LA, you can go to some very nice neighborhood like like like Pasadena, or you're very nice.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or you can go to Skitro.
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's let's live.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's live.
45:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not just in school or a movie.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, right.
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then try to play with people.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not Asian musician.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: How about like flag musician, white musician, and people is at a level much higher than you, to really take you as, right?
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, give it a try.
45:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like whenever you want, just give it a try and see if it works or if it works or not, right?
45:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if it's worked,
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You're lucky.
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's not work, just for your day, I have something else to tell you.
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you want to ultimately live your life?
45:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to spend it in Vietnam or playing music there?
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you want to travel all over the world and live in other places in the world?
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Both, at the same time.
45:48
[SPEAKER_01]: My plan, my plan is if I'm lucky enough, I would love to spend the spring and the fall.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: In Vietnam, teaching, summer, winter, touring all over the world, right?
46:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where the conservatory, conservatory, all my own studio, my old school, or anywhere.
46:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I found out that with teaching, I love teaching a lot.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's the best way to me to share my love, which has and curve, and
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: and fighting more chess fans, right?
46:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but touring over the worst, so fun, play with amazing musicians while we're out of work.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And make music because like when I'm touring, I have no free time to practice.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no free time to making a recording and a new album.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But teaching, you teach on a daytime and at a nighttime, we have no thing to do.
46:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Just just practice and write something new and record something new.
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how would people like you?
46:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You, you and Am both in the United States for two years.
46:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it's so hard.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe what we're brought here is like just another an other jazz guitarist, but like Saudis and like the US guitarists, right?
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Saudi leave it more Vietnamese, right?
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've brought my traditional my heritage here.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of Vietnamese project and then arrangement on my Vietnamese sounds and I tried to figure it out a lot of my way on improvisation because improvisation can be very systematic.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I tried to figure it out my own way, my own style, my own artistic equation, and my own memories of Vietnam doing here.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can we find your music?
47:56
[SPEAKER_01]: on my website, on Spotify, YouTube, our Apple Music everywhere.
48:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just release a new album.
48:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell us how, well, what you go under your name?
48:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, TreeFam.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just go TreeFamDetown.com and you see all of my video and music and bio everything.
48:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that the thing that I...
48:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I come here, it's mostly fight, fight who I am, and fighting, where is home to me.
48:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, it's so hard because in Vietnam, especially playing jazz, I feel that I'm not really a hundred percent traditional Vietnamese music, because I playing jazz.
48:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have a lot of jazz musicians here.
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we have a lot of like a whole town or cocktail jazz or whiskey selling jazz.
48:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like as we mentioned before.
48:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like I mean they're the straight head jazz the more a little bit more sewers.
48:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, right?
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know, series jazz and no jam.
49:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, it's just just a little bit more and more
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: and whole-tail music.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I used to play a lot in the whole-tail and in the bar too, but it can be more than that, right?
49:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right?
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the thing that when I come here, especially when I study a lot of chess, I understand myself better, because when I come here, I thought, oh, I miss Vietnam a lot.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss Vietnamese food a lot.
49:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel the most comfortable speaking Vietnamese.
50:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel that, oh, I'm 100% Vietnamese.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found that.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the more I understand about chess, the more I recognize that I have no idea of my my traditional music.
50:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to play.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: how to play any traditional Vietnamese instrument, and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and to, to just do understand, no.
50:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy to check in with guests like you year after year, year after year, and really get to kind of catch up and find out like how we're progressing along in the world.
51:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much.
51:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
51:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.