Latest / The Kulturecast / The Offence (1973) — "Nothing I have done can be one half as bad as the thoughts in your head."

Transcript

The Offence (1973) — "Nothing I have done can be one half as bad as the thoughts in your head." · The Kulturecast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: We're in wait being.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: By you remember that, no man ever, don don you
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: go hm you remember.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Good?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Constable Davis Cunning McConnell reported, Station office immediately he takes
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: you start reported he TechEd his achieving spected office.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: Did he take it?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Conforta belongs to them by.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: The cameras.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: Constables Turner David cunconella.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Off my album title go Off for Love. Hello everyone,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: and welcome to the Culture Cast. I am your host, Christashi,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: and I'm joined by my two good friends, all the
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: way from somewhere in the Midwest. I guess we're technically
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: all somewhat in the Midwest. Mike might not consider himself
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: in the Midwest, all the way from Chicago. Your friend
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: of mine, Spencer Parson.
• 2:54
  Speaker 7: Hello, glad to be here.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: And he's the host of the Projection Booth and he
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: programmed this entire month. Mike White, I'm sorry.
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: Guys, I got to turn off the lights over here.
• 3:02
  Speaker 6: There's a little bit of a glare on my screen.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: TASiS.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: You think jj Abrams watches this movie is just like
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: the lens flare. It's so good. It's so good is
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: that lens sclare? It's what is it?
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: No, it's I think it's a super imposition.
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what it looks like. Is I keep thinking
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: it's the light from like the inquiry, like the third
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: degree type light.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: I thought it was the dentist's chair. That's what it
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: looks like looking up into the light at the dentist chair.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I don't see a man with tremendous amounts
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: of nosehair hanging over me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: So is it safe? On this episode of the Culture Cast,
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: we are continuing Mike White May with a look at
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy three's Sidney Lumet directed film The Offense.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: So.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: The film is directed by Sidney Lumett, written by John Hopkins,
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: based on a play of the same name by the
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: same author. It stars Sean Connery as detective Sergeant Johnson
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: who kills a child molester question mark and uh, yeah,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: that's the entire movie, the end. We can go home now. No,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: it's about a cop who kills a man in custody
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: and the repercussion surrounding that. And also it's a character
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: study on what happens to police officers as they're exposed
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: to violence and crime and the things that they have
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: to deal with On a daily basis. Also, this film
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: is told in a non linear format, so there is
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: that as well, which is always exciting. Mike, I'm going
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: to kick it to you first, since it is your month,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: and you programmed the film, Why the Offense and why
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: Sidney Lumet film?
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: Well? And was that also a reference to Blazing Saddles
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: that it was? Okay, wow weird?
• 4:40
  Speaker 8: Yes, it was, thank.
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: You for going home. This is the third Blazing Saddles
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: reference we've had in seventeen minutes. So why did I
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: pick this one? I've always wanted to see this movie
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: just I had heard about its reputation as being spectacular.
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: I had never seen it before. And when it comes
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: to to the Lumette connection, yeah, that I did not
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: even realize when I was picking films that I was
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: picking three Sidney Lamett films. So, as we talked about
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: last time, I was very familiar with the Anderson tapes,
• 5:13
  Speaker 6: had never seen The Hill, had never seen The Offence,
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: And I am really glad that I picked this one.
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: I so far feeling pretty good about this month, really hoping,
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: you know, like the next two aren't duds, but feeling
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: pretty good about this And man, oh man, what a
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: got bunch of a movie.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: This is Yeah, Spencer, what about you? I know you're
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: you're rare and chomping at the bit to talk. So
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: what did you think of the offense?
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: You know, I didn't. I didn't know anything about this
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: movie going in. Uh man alive. Why is this not
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: a bigger deal? Why is this a lesser known Sidney
• 5:53
  Speaker 7: Lmett and lesser known Sean Connery movie? Because it's like
• 5:57
  Speaker 7: Sidney Lymett firing on all cylinders. Sean Connery one of
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: his most interesting performances, for sure. And and you know,
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: also I was looking into it a little bit, and uh,
• 6:09
  Speaker 7: Connery fought to get this movie made. You know, this
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: movie happened as Connery's price for doing another Bond Uh.
• 6:18
  Speaker 7: And I'm like, well, you know it was it Diamonds
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: or Forever? Maybe that yeah, yeah, well then Diamonds Are Forever,
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: which is a pretty terrible Bond film. All worth it
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: if it got this movie made.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: No kidding, no kidding, Yeah this, Mike, we talked on
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: the last episode Mike and I did with Cullen and
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: Mike you had brought that up. Actually, the Anderson tapes
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: possibly being the Bond film kind of you know, one in,
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: one out. No, to Spencer's point, and I think we
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: realized that in the last episode. It is this film.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: And to your point, Spencer, and to what you said, Mike,
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: my lord, what a film look Sean Connery. We all
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: come into Sean Connery from a different spot, Spencer, Mike
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: and I have talked about our Sean Connery kind of
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: affection and feelings towards him. So this is your opportunity.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on mister Connery as an actor
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: and kind of just his his body of work in general,
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: because one of the things we had been talking about
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: was Connery tends to not get recognized for the things
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: he did outside of Bond a whole lot, which is
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: a shame because he seems like and this movie definitely
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: is adding a huge drop into that bucket. He's a
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: really fucking great act capital an actor, not classically trained,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: but a capital a actor.
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: Nonetheless, Yeah, I mean, I would say this this movie
• 7:39
  Speaker 7: is like, you know, up there for his most impressive performances.
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: I'm trying to I mean, it's like, you know, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 7: love I love him in Time Bandits, which is a
• 7:47
  Speaker 7: very different kind of flavor from from Bond. You know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 7: I'm not the biggest Untouchables fan, but I really like
• 7:55
  Speaker 7: him in that movie. But that's that's that's like, uh,
• 7:58
  Speaker 7: you know, that's a fine performance. But compared compared to
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: the offense, Yeah, the Untouchable is great performance, but like
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: a cartoon in comparison to this, uh yeah, really remarkable
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: and you know, uh really I think really ballsy at
• 8:19
  Speaker 7: the time, uh to uh to really take you know,
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: because in a certain way, you know, Bond is not
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: a cop, but he's a law enforcement adjacent character. Uh,
• 8:31
  Speaker 7: and for Connory to take the sort of one of
• 8:35
  Speaker 7: the things I like about Connery is Bond is is like,
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: you know, he's suave and everything, but he's also a bully.
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: But this this pushes fully into the like bad cop
• 8:46
  Speaker 7: direction and puts me in the mind of of like,
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: you know, I was actually comparing this a lot. It's
• 8:51
  Speaker 7: a very different kind of bad cop, very different kind
• 8:54
  Speaker 7: of performance. But it reminded me of you know, Hackman
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: as as Popeye Doel a little bit for the level
• 9:02
  Speaker 7: of like kind of obsessive figure now much more psychological
• 9:06
  Speaker 7: than Popeye Doyle. We don't get into what Popeye Doyle's
• 9:11
  Speaker 7: you know, neuroses are except the obvious racism that has
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: expressed at various points throughout you know, the French connection.
• 9:19
  Speaker 7: But yeah, this just uh and and just in general,
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: this is one of those. The seventies is the greatest
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: era of the police procedural and this is this is
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: another great one.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: I was reminded a little bit while I was watching
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: this of did you guys ever see the Pledge with
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: Nicholson from two thousand and one, Yeah, which was based
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: on the book. It's got a lot of translations, but
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: it happened abroad daylight or cold light of day. I've
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: watched those, that's those were earlier versions, and it's it's
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: similar insofar as there's child murder and I we go
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: all the way back to m if not earlier than
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: that when it comes to child murder, but this whole
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: idea of the obsessive cop who's going to do anything
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: and everything that he can to catch this child murderer,
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: and just the lengths that he goes to to try
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: to figure out who this person is and track this
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: person down. You get a lot more feel in these
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: other films as to the absolute guilt of the person.
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: And I love that there is such a big question
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: mark over this. And I also, you know, Chris, you
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: mentioned the non linear storytelling. I mean, once we get
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: into the movie, what about twenty minutes into this thing,
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: Like once once Connery goes home from this horrible day
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: of a child being taken, she's what the third child
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: and a series of things, and I was like, is
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: this child being raped? Are they being murdered? It sounds
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: like the killer has or the offender has not gone
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: to that level that it is rape, it is not murder.
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: And you know they even address that like, well, at
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: least she's okay, and it's like, yeah, no, it's not okay.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: Like she's alive, but she now has this memory that
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: she's going to contend with with the rest of her life.
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: Once they get into Connery going home to his wife,
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: This was based on a play.
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: I'm just like, all right, this is very play like.
• 11:26
  Speaker 6: But my god, like there are after the first like
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: I said, twenty twenty five minutes, maybe it's even a
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: little bit more than that. After that chunk, we get
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: three big chunks of movie. That's the Sorry to get
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: so technical when I say chunk, but three big chunks
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: of movie where it is basically two people sometimes a
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: few more in a room going at it. This is
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: such an acting exercise and I am.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Here for it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: Just the performance from his wife in this, the performance
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: from from Trevor Howard in this, the performance from h
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: is Ian Bannon, and then you've got Connory just going
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: toe to toe with them every single time. And then
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: for me, it's that whole question of can you take
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: a play and make it into a movie and not
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: make it feel like a play. So once you start
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: getting some of these images from inside of Connory's head,
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: seeing some past crimes that have affected him, seeing him
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: recast as the person that is doing this horrible thing
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: to children, seeing that to coin a phrase in the
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: cold light of day, where you're like, was he the
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: person that's doing this? Like casting doubt on him? Even
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: like I don't think that we're supposed to come away
• 12:49
  Speaker 6: from this movie being like, oh, well, obviously Johnson was
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: the real murderer, you know, the real culprit here.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: I think he's seeing these venal thoughts that are coming
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: from his interaction with Baxter and from all of the
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: years of just this horrible stuff that he has been
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: seeing since he was like a patrolman on the beat,
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: and he has finally come to the part where he
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: cannot take it anymore. What an amazing psychological study of
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: one particular person.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: Well, and from the time that he finds the girl,
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: so one is that like they're doing the big search party.
• 13:29
  Speaker 7: But then it goes in close on Connery and as
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: he seems to hear her, you know, in the bushes somewhere,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: he suddenly becomes a tracker where the way that his
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: behavior is shot feels guilty. Even as he's saving her.
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: He has to hold her against the ground because she
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: just wants to run away, which on the one level
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: makes sense he's going to save her, but on another level,
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: it feels like he is attacking her. And then when
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: the rest of the cops come in and they find
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: him with the girl, there's a way in which, again
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: it's shot that makes Connery look guilty, and we know
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: from context that he's not, but it's the way that
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: it feels, and it's setting us up for the rest
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: of this movie.
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, those lights on him, he looks like he's in
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: that spot, like he looks like he is the guilty party.
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: The way he's leaning over her. You're sitting there thinking
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: is he about to fucking molest this girl? This is
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: fucking crazy. And even the way that he finds her
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: to your point, turns off his flashlight. It's almost like
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: a Will Graham kind of thing, Like he gets in
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: the head of the killer and it's like if I
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: were the killer or sorry I keep saying killer even
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: though he hasn't murdered. The way that he gets into
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: the true, true, yes, the way that he gets into
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: that mindset and he is the one that is able
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: to track down this girl and where she's at that
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: that's like, okay, he has really Like I think the
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: comparison to Manhunter is very appropriate. He's gotten into the
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: headspace of this horrible person who can do horrible things.
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: Now he sees himself doing that. The reason why Will
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: Graham went so fucking crazy, like before Manhunter even starts,
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: is because he could empathize and he could get into
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: like a Hannibal Lecter's head. This is the same thing
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: for me, where Conery can get inside of this guy's
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: head and it scares the b Jesus out of him.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm surprised, Spencer. You mentioned this that this movie,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: especially Connery's performance, isn't more well regarded. I mean, I
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: appreciate that Ian Bannon is great in the movie, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: he is, he was nominated for a Bathtub Yeah, but
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: Sean Connery in this movie is putting in a lot
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: of work play. I mean, Anderson Tapes is like it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: playing against type. This is playing against type, like really
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: playing against type for Connery. And to your point, Mike
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: about like getting inside of his head and like like
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: seeing his thought process and what he's doing. We don't
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: get to see that with Bond That's not a Bondian thing.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: Like Mon's monologue is all internal, like it's all an
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: internal monologue with himself, this character. We get to see that,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: and so it's interesting because rarely do we get to
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: see inside of a character that Connery plays so deeply
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: and intimately in a way that you know, by the
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: end of the movie, Connery is like in genuine tears
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: trying to get some level of empathy from this person
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: that he I mean, I mean again, he kind of
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: you know, that whole scene is completely out of control
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: when we get there. But my point being like it's
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: rare that we get to see this closely into a
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: character that Connery is playing at this level, especially around
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: this time when it's like just barely.
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: Post boon exactly. Yeah, it's it's a really remarkable performance.
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: And the the the sort of the shifts in a
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: lot of places in the movie, the shifts from vulnerability
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: into violence and rage are are really fascinating. You know.
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: It's like at at the in the big middle sort
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: of play like session, but it's shot so well, like
• 17:13
  Speaker 7: so beautifully shot. The scene with his wife and she
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: kind of has to beg him to open up about
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: what is going on with him in this case, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: he he unloads all of this internal pain, but without
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: without her even provoking him. The unloading of the pain
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: turns into the provocation to abuse her. And here she
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: is just trying to listen, just trying to you know, uh,
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: to be helpful.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: You know, it's I read I read her performance as
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: still being in love with somebody that she knows hates her, uh,
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: and that that's that's where that's where things have gone
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: in this relationship. And there's a point which it feels like,
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: oh they're maybe maybe they're going to work something out.
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: They're making a connection and it's it's almost like at
• 18:07
  Speaker 7: the most hopeful moment of his opening up, he shifts
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: into abuse and like, you cannot see this side of me.
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: This can't be allowed. And Connery pulls off that turn
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: so well and then goes through not as big but
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: similar terms turns with uh, you know, with with with
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: Ian Bannon later as the as the suspect who who
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: he ultimately kills.
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, the it's like he's never opened up to
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: her before, and it's like all of this stuff comes
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: flooding out and she just has a moment of hesitation,
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: that whole thing where he tells her this story of
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: what happened to him all of these years ago.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: She can't take it.
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: She goes and throws up, and for him, that's weakness
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: and he can't have that. And that's basically like now
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: that's his excuse of, well, I tried to open up
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: to you, you couldn't handle it.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Fuck you.
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: And just again, the abuse just keeps coming out, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: you know, like, oh, when he starts talking about that
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: she's old and he doesn't find her attractive, and it's
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: just you're hitting below the belt every single time, you know, like,
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: I don't know how many of us have been in
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: relationships like that. But it's just like, oh shit, this
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: is real bad stuff, and yeah you did. And again
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: she is just going right back and forth. Vivian merchants
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: as Maureen is just killing it, killing this thing, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: just yeah, to have them going back and forth, and yes,
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: we're moving from room to room and stuff, and I'm
• 19:45
  Speaker 6: just like okay, yeah, yeah, kind of playlike but this
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: is okay. I'm here for it just because I just
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: want to see this acting like this is such an
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: exercise for me. And I'm just like yes, yeah, I'm like,
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: oh wow. And that's Connery. And like, you know, when
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: when when we did Raking on Bond Chris, we were
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: just like, yeah, he's great, he's so cool. He's pretty great,
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: but he wasn't given anything to work with.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: It's just like all right, there's no pathos.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: It's basically a comic book movie. You know.
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: Sorry anybody that's upstended by that, but these are basically
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: like little spy stories and stuff. Yeah, John Connery pretends
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: to be an Asian man in one and like gets
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: away with it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: Cool here, it's just like he's got nothing, you know,
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: he's got he's got the hat. He's not wearing the
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: piece anymore. You know, he's just like not wearing the tucks.
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: He's just wearing that that big reddy jacket and everything.
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: And my god, he commands the screen every single time
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: he's on there, and he.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Just looks big.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: He just looks like he is so big.
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: And when it comes to like the interactions with Ian Bannon,
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: it just you're just like, my god, how big are is?
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: It's his hands because he can fit this guy's whole
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: head between his two hands.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Jean Connery is a big man, yes he is.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: And I this is this is an area where I
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: got to say that that like, uh, Sidney Lumet really obviously,
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: you know, adapted a lot of plays, but is really
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: next level in just positioning and moving the camera and
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: moving the people. You know, two people in a room
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: talking for I don't know, this scene is what fifteen
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: minutes is a nice big chunk A movie might even
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: be longer than that, but but it's it never it
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: never like we can spot that, yeah, was a play
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: or whatever, but it is total cinema in the way
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: that the camera approaches the action between these two people.
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: It you know, sure we get some shot in reverse,
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: but it never settles into that for very long. There
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: they're you know, their physical relationships to one another, how
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: they how they move, how they dodge and perry and chase,
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: you know, around the room is really incredible, just like
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: a masterclass in how you know cinema. Capturing two people
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: trying to communicate is you know, it is and can
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: be such an amazing thing, and that scenes that go
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: down the rabbit hole are so worthwhile, like you know,
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: as cinema not just adapting from a play, but you know,
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: cinematically taking the time and just focusing on these people
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: for the length of time that it takes. Man hats off.
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: It's just like masterful some of the Who Met's best
• 22:33
  Speaker 7: work because it's so hard. I mean, this is like
• 22:37
  Speaker 7: at the you know, Long Day's Journey and Tonight, like
• 22:41
  Speaker 7: you know, tackling Eugene O'Neil territory. I think in terms
• 22:45
  Speaker 7: of how he's visualizing this extremely intense drama between these people,
• 22:50
  Speaker 7: and both of these actors are just on fire.
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: The amazing way I think about it, because I don't
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: know if Twelve Angry Men was just a teleplay or
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: if it was also a play play because that is
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: set down right, and it's just the one setting. Like obviously,
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: you have a little bit at the beginning with the
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: you know, the judge saying like, okay, you know you're charged,
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: go back in the deliberation room and don't come back
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: out until you have a verdict. And you get the
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: little thing at the end with the old man saying
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: goodbye to Henry Fonda. But the rest of it is
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: feels like a play. But he shoots it so well
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: and just you know, makes it so that you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: the god those faces and those close ups again just
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: like an amazing array of actors in that particular film,
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: just so well shot. And then I think about my
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: other favorite Lumet, which is sorry, yeah Lumet, which is
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: death Trap, Like I forget that he directed that as well,
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: which is it's great because that one ends with the reveal.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: And again I can't remember if that was a play
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: or not, but even in the movie itself, the movie okay,
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: but the movie comes a play at the end of it,
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: like you are suddenly like thrust into you know, like
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: with those flashing lights of the lightning and everything, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: then suddenly we cut from we are watching the movie
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: to we are watching the play that was written by
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: the people that were we were just watching in the
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: movie part of the movie. And I just love that.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: And yeah, he's amazing, like these these adaptations and just
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: the way that he shoots the stuff again, Death Trap
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: never Like I was a young man when I saw that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: I probably saw that first run when it was out.
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: I didn't know that it was a play. I didn't
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: know anything about anything back then. But it's just like
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: now I watch it, I'm just like, yeah, I can
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: tell it's a play, but he shoots it so fucking well.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: It does not feel like, yeah, we're just stuck here,
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: you know. And Chris we talked about that even with
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: the Hill, like so much of that takes place in
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: like two three sets, that's it, but it is he
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: just lets these actors and that's all you need.
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: Yeah, if you know how to.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Cast well and you get good actors who elevate any
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: that they're given. I mean, I won't say anything, but
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: I mean damn near anything, you know. I think you
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: stick with those actors and you continue to work with them.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: And Sidney Lumett saw that in Connery clearly because I know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: we haven't watched a non Lumet film yet this month, Mike,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: so it's kind of hard to say, yeah, next week, right,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: it's kind of hard to say, like, well, Connor, you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: outside of Loumett, Connery is still a great actor. I
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: know he is, because I'm it's just Untouchables and other things.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: But in terms of like his serious stuff, Lumett seems
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: to be able to get a really good serious performance
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: out of Sean Connor. But again, Sean Connery is such
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: a great actor. It's it's been in there this whole time.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: It's just the directors that work with Connery. I just
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: don't think that was the expectation. I guess with the
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: guy who played James Bond, I would like to point
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: out it is very funny to me something else about
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: Connery that just cracks me up. Post Bond, the man
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: was rarely seen without facial hair, rarely see which is
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: fucking hilarious, like he and he and for me, I
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: mean obviously, when you think of him as Bond, he's
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: clean shaven. He would clean shave for never say never again.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: But guys rarely clean shaven post Bond. It's either a mustache,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: or a beard or the two or in the name
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: of the Rose, like, you know, the whole thing. It's
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: I love it because I think it makes Connery look
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: more gruff. I think he looks more gruff with facial hair.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: He looks more intimidating with facial hair. He looks a
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: little angrier with facial Yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: Did you realize Chris that Ian Bannon is also in
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: the Hill, that he's Harris one of the guards?
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Not really because again, like most of those guys are
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: just wearing helmet.
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he looks so different and it's only a few
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: years like that, what was that sixty five? And this
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: is what seventy three?
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Yep, that's right.
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: It's not like time was being cruel to him. He
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: just he's kind of a chameleon. Like I was looking
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: at pictures of him and I was like, wow, he
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: can really make himself look very different, and he just
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: carries himself so you know, kind of like it. It's
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: so funny because you're watching this and he never asks
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: like why did you bring me in? You know what's
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: going on? Like just the way that he's introduced is
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: this kind of like wandering drunk that the cops just
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: happen to bring in, and so just even the way
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: that he's brought in, you're like, well, what is the connection?
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: Why do you suddenly think that he's the guy? It
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: almost seems like so easy, you know, but then it's like, well,
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: you got mud on you and you've got this these
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: scratches on your head, and they it's like, while we're
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: watching this, we're not getting the blow by blow, and
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: I don't even know if they do ask like where'd
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: you get the scratches from? Why do you have mud
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: on yourself? And he also never says why did you
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: bring me in? Like he doesn't sit there and just
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: say like I'm indostan or I want my solicitor or
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: any of that stuff. Like I finally he will ask
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: for a solicitor, but it goes on for a long
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: time before he ever brings that up. And he just
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: is so like, you know, the way they bring him
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: into the police station, he's like practically comatose, the way
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: that he's brought in, and just it's like then suddenly
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: gets thrust into this scenario where you've got all these
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: cops ask him stuff. And then the way that Connery
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: just tells the one remaining guard to take a hike
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: and has this private session with him. This is every
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: bad cop we've seen in every movie ever.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: So I'm curious, what is where do y'all come into
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: the Ian Bannon character? Is he? I know, like, it's
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: is he or isn't he? Is Is he acting like
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: he's guilty in the movie? That's the question, because whether
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: he's guilty or not, the movie never gives us a
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: straight answer. Intentionally, I feel like he's acting guilty and
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: he's baiting Connory into doing what he does. Maybe he
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: doesn't think Connery will take it to the extent that
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: he does, and you know his death will become part
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: of it. But someone who could be doing what his
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: character would be doing would know that baiting someone like
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: a Connery type into beating the shit out of him
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: would get him out of anything he did. And he's
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, I like that he's given a shade of grain,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: but he is acting rather guilty. I mean, he talks
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: about that guy in school and he's like, oh, you're
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: having me now, han, It's like yeah, dude, Like yeah,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: he's got your ass right where he wants. You just
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: don't realize it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that story, and you don't see that the first time.
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: The way that we get reveals of him, you know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: we see just like a very tiny bit of him
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: at the very beginning, but then like the you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: initial questioning, we get some but then we go away,
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: you know, and then we come back and he's already
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: on the ground kind of thing, you know, like lean
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: in his head against that chair. And then to go
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: back to that later on in the movie, I think
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: is brilliant. And again I imagine if I was watching
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: the play of this, we only probably see him the
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: one time. We probably get him at the end, I don't.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: I think that the play is written in the same
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: out of sequence style where it's the wife, it's the
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: the inspector who's checking out Connery's story post incident, and
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: then it's the incident. But having this introduction of him
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: early on, I think is really smart, and then showing
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: us the crime that Connery commits a few times really
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: kind of casts it in a new light every single time.
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's interesting. I think part of the ambiguity Chris
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: for me, gets caught up in Yes, he behaves like
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: he's guilty, but is he guilty? Is he feeling guilty
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: about something else, right, you know that you know exactly
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: what is he feeling guilty about? Is it? Is it
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: this crime or is it you know, obviously the other
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: stuff that comes out about his past and how it
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: comes out with Connery. You know, this is uh, this
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: is really really interesting. I mean I think I think
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: ultimately I come down on the side of yeah, it
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: seems like maybe he's baiting Connory into killing him because
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: he is guilty of this crime and he knows what
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: he can. He spots, He spots is double. You know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: he spots that that Connery is is like like himself,
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: and that if he can just draw this out, uh,
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: you know, he'll he'll die. But because we never know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: that's you know, this is this is like when I
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: actually feel like everybody should have to watch a movie
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: like this because we're getting we're getting all these like
• 31:22
  Speaker 7: we live in a world now of conspiracy theories over
• 31:25
  Speaker 7: whether somebody acted emotionally in the right way after some
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: totally traumatic event happened to them. And I feel like
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: this kind of this kind of drama where you really
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: are outside and you you just got some cues about
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: somebody's behavior. What kind of guilt. What is the guilt
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: really about?
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: I I really, I really feel like we then I
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: don't know, you know, I'm hoping too much for the
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: conspiracy theorists. Uh but but I I this just does
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: remind me of how we live in this world of thinking, oh, yeah,
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: we know the inside of this person because of how
• 32:04
  Speaker 7: they behaved immediately after some traumatic event, and then we're
• 32:08
  Speaker 7: gonna invent all kinds of stories about it. And you know,
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: Lumette and Connery really and and Ian Bannon really put
• 32:16
  Speaker 7: us through. Uh you know, how how do we gain
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: access uh to someone's subjectivity? And with Connery, of course,
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: you know, we get these flashes of what's in his mind.
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: He you know, he's the most revealed out of anybody.
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: And I got to say that car ride in the
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: middle of the movie going to all the different images
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: of cases that he's been on in the past, and
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: we don't know that yet. Like I was, I was wondering,
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: is this a is this cross cutting to like the
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: next stage in this particular case. And then I start
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: to figure out, no, this is this is like a
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: bunch of memories that he's going with. That stuff was like,
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: you know, without being super gory or anything genuinely shocking, like,
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: you know, really really intense, and you know, I was,
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: I was definitely at the edge of my seat, kind
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: of sickened by these images that are coming into his
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: head in the middle of the movie. And then of
• 33:12
  Speaker 7: course those images are this is where again you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: the the cinema of this as an adaptation into a play. Yeah,
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: then later we talk about some of these images. We
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: described the cases where he got there, but having seen
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: these flashes before, oh my god, Like both parts of
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: that are just like really really intense, and yeah, wondering
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: really really wondering about at that where Connery is going
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: to go, How how is this going to happen? He
• 33:47
  Speaker 7: is a you know, really dangerous and also somebody we
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: can I feel like on some level pity at the
• 33:54
  Speaker 7: at the same time, pity does not let him remotely
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: off the hook. We can have both of these things
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: at the same time. But it really it really does
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: make a case for the damage done just to somebody.
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: And that's that's where again, this is a totally different
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: deal from some of our other like seventies Bad and
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: Questionable Cops. We really really go into the cops trauma
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: that is motivating this behavior, and what it does is
• 34:24
  Speaker 7: not let the cop off the hook, but kind of
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: indict a system that cannot you know, that cannot control.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Violent I if you or I had the image flash
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: repeatedly of a chicken being beheaded in your brain, over
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: and over again, I was honestly waiting. It very much
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: reminded me of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory where it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: all those like the cutting away. I was like, oh
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: my god, I'm waiting for the chicken to be beheaded,
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: and then you know as they're as they're going through
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: the tunnel. No, it's a right, It's It's one of
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: those things where like movies that talk about police officers
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: a specific kind of police officer, do these kinds of
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: like when you get too close to the case, you
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: become involved in the case. Like I know Zodiac tried
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: to traffic in that a little bit, which is why
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: I enjoy that movie so much. I don't think it
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: does it as much as this movie does. I think
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Zodiac does it more in terms of Robert Graysmith's character
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: less the character that Mark Ruffalo plays. But I like
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: the idea of what happens when this cop gets too
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: close because he has to be so close because that's
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: his job. And also again juxtapposing it with someone who
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: you kind of always see as the good character because
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: it's Sean Connery. But then, like you said, Spencer, you
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: have this guy who's like huge and with a level
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: of toxic masculinity and unbridled rage, and that combination together
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: is horrifying. And he literally kills someone and just and
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: attempts to justify it about halfway through the movie too,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: which is the wild part. You know.
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: Oh man, this, I mean, we haven't talked about that
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: scene with Trevor Howard yet and that's also remarkable, you know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 7: just just amazing work between those two actors.
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and again Trevor Howard, this guy's no slouch, and
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: here's comedy just giving it his all, and it's he
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: makes it look effortless, which is wonderful.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: I don't feel like this is some sort of you know,
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: grab a look at me. I'm a serious actor, like
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: he Yeah, I'm taking this guy bloody serious through this
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: whole thing. And yeah, this I just love all the
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: machinations of the actual police department and everything, and I
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: love the color palette, or should I say lack of
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: color palette.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Everything looks so.
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: Sickly and like it's it's not really a greenish tint,
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: it's more of like a light blue tint that everything
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: has from like these neon lights, and just oh, it
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: looks so dire. And after you know, he kills their
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: sends this suspect to the hospital, like you know, it's
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: raining outside, it's just so drab, and even just the
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: countryside where you see the little girl being you know,
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: taken away and everything. And I love that you have
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: the witness who's too far away to see anything and
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: who waits too long to come to the police and
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: say stuff, and.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: He is just pissed.
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: He's just a boiling font of rage throughout all of
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: this movie. And you just sense that boiling tension. And
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: back to the whole thing and the flashing images. I mean,
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: we are being told so little with just a few
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: frames of things like that the rib with the hand
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: coming out, Oh god, and you're just like, I don't
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: want to know. I do not want to know what
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: the scene was when you walked in here. This is
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: bad and like you see the person falling off the
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: top of the building, and I'm like, was that a fall?
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Was a push? Who is this?
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: What's going on here? You see certain images where You're like,
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: I don't even know what this thing is, but it's
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: very effective. Like it almost looks like there's a door
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: open and some water dripping, and I'm like, I don't
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: know what that is, but it builds the mood and
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: just the repetition of things, the use of the train
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: that goes through that montage as well, minimalist filmmaking for
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: maximum effort.
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well, and so yeah, you bring up the color
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: and this comes from the you know, the predominant spaces
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: are brutalist architecture. Yes, and in a way this is
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: then brutalist filmmaking. Agree, not simply because like the architecture
• 38:43
  Speaker 7: is there and creates all these intense lines, but also
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: the way that the like the way that the movie
• 38:49
  Speaker 7: is covered and cut becomes these like blocks of things
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: put together you know, in a in a similar in
• 38:57
  Speaker 7: a similar kind of fashion, and following such intense lines.
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: You know, Like so for instance, the apartment that that
• 39:05
  Speaker 7: he shares with his wife could look totally different, but
• 39:09
  Speaker 7: that set is designed to even though it's not literally
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: a brutalist space to imitate those hard lines that we
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: get in the police station, you know, the lines of
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: the hallways, the lines of windows that people are looking through,
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: and and yes, there's there's this intense kind of brutalism.
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: You also mentioned the the fluorescent lights. There's something evil
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: about the hallways in the police station, like people always
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: seem to be as they're moving through the hallways, they
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: are in distress or feel dread. You get people running
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: too and running away from things, and so it's like
• 39:48
  Speaker 7: you've got this fluorescent lit kind of hallway that seems
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: to contain violent that, you know, or if it's not
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: containing the violence, it's spitting it out into one of
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: these rooms. And yeah, just throughout the movie, we get
• 40:05
  Speaker 7: we get these, yeah, these really intense lines. There's that
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: beautiful and horrific shot in that sequence of of uh
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: of flashes where we've been seeing the train and the
• 40:16
  Speaker 7: train is then going you know, it's it's still going along,
• 40:20
  Speaker 7: but it's not just a shot of a train. Now
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: there seems to be a group of people, you know,
• 40:24
  Speaker 7: extracting a dead body from uh, you know, the side
• 40:27
  Speaker 7: of the train tracks and bringing it down to an
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: ambulance at the road below. Yeah, the movie is just
• 40:33
  Speaker 7: full of this, this kind of very angular Uh and
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: you know, brutal Uh, you know, brutal, brutal lines, brutal movements.
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: Uh and uh, you know, ultimately a brutal storytelling. I
• 40:50
  Speaker 7: don't know that the story itself would quite count as brutalist,
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: but the way that people move through this and how
• 40:57
  Speaker 7: how the movie cuts, how the camera moved, feels very
• 41:01
  Speaker 7: much in tune with this architecture. And I think the
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: architecture becomes really important to seeing not just Connery as
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: one bad and damaged cop, but getting a sense of
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: a system that is, you know, rigidly holding everybody in
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: and producing horrifying results.
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: I think at that beautiful shot of those yellow flowers,
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: only for the camera to tilt up and show us
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: the desiccated body hanging in the forest. Right, Oh Jesus Christ.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: Did it rehind anybody else? I don't look now, because
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: it is a little bit of that as well. Like
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: the imagery that's being used here. It's I would say
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: it's being used a similar effect in both films. I
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: mean it's being used to kind of jolt the audience
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: and get them to kind of I don't know, be
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: disturbed or in this film's case, be put in the
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: mindset of this character. I do like how most of
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: the scene with Trevor Howard is just him projecting, and
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: a lot of the movie is projecting, like, don't you
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: know in his mind he was just thinking about this
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: girl in the mud, And it's like, Bro, that was you.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: That was you that was thinking about Like it's not him,
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: it's you. You're the one who's condemning yourself. You just
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: don't realize it. And it's like, at the moment he's
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: put in front of anybody who can psychoanalyze him, they're
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: gonna do the exact same fucking thing. This guy is toast.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: That's the thing that he realizes, and that he's attempting
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: so hard to like course correct as he's trying to
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: validate it. But he I think the movie, as we
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: watch it, as it slowly goes on, he realizes more
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: and more just how completely fucked he is and how
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: completely in line with the person he was condemning he
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: is as well. And maybe he's condemning someone unfairly and
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: he's more just looking for a reason to externalize his
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: own self loathing and self condemnation.
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you're talking about the apartment space and those great
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: glass windows that they have that distorts anything that's behind it,
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: you know, or the lights in there just feel like
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: they're never touching the darkness of the room. That just
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: feels so dim and dirty in there, and so cluttered
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: with like knickknacks. You like, look at her kitchen and
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: she's got all of these pots and pants every fucking place,
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: and it just feels like a fucking disaster area. And
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: then I love that that sequence inside of that area
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: where the cops come to pick him up to take
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: him back to the office and he's you know, they
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: have to be there with him while he's shaving because
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: he might slit his throat. They have to be there
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: with him when he's burning on his shirt. I love
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: seeing John Halliman this. It's like I grew up on
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: Dragon Slayer and Flash Gordon is like he was such
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: a stock face in these British movies from that period
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: of time, and here he's seven years younger than he
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: was in Flash Gordon, but he always looks like an
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: old man, you know, like just always buried and everything,
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: I mean, even the windows to outside of their apartment.
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: You can't see anything. I don't know if it's because
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: of the rain, but like there's no view outside of
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: this this place. It just feels like grime, absolute grime.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: It's very seven adjacent.
• 44:14
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well, you know.
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: Absolutely yeah. When you see the guy coming off of
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: the roof, like when you watch it the second time,
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: it's like, oh, there's people pushing this guy off, and
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: it looks like one of them's wearing a Bobby hat.
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: So maybe that was Connery's first time doing this.
• 44:31
  Speaker 7: We don't know, Yeah, don't know, no, And it's interesting. Yeah.
• 44:35
  Speaker 7: I was thinking of seven earlier because obviously seven is
• 44:39
  Speaker 7: more gothic and kind of florid in its you know,
• 44:44
  Speaker 7: crime scene imagery than these flashes are. But these flashes
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: were actually more upsetting to me than anything in seven.
• 44:52
  Speaker 7: You know, Seven definitely has some grotesque kind of kind
• 44:56
  Speaker 7: of moments, but in terms of just pure upset, uh,
• 45:00
  Speaker 7: you know, uh, Sidney Lumette wins, uh. You know, I'm
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: a big fan of David Fincher, but this is this
• 45:06
  Speaker 7: is like one of those things where I just go, oh, wow,
• 45:08
  Speaker 7: we are we're in a We're just at a different
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: level of darkness like to be you know, to be fair.
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: You know, Seven a fine film and really well made,
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: but this is this is like high school darkness. Uh,
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: very formative dark It's performative darkness.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Wouldn't to be creepy if a guy was in a
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: room with allD I mean yeah, it would be. But
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: you know what could actually happen to you? A cop
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: fucking murdering. Like I don't know else to put it,
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: but like in this day and age, in this economy, folks,
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: I'd gladly let a police officer fucking murder me over
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: having you know, David Fincher's whatever, seven. Like what happens
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: in this movie is awful, like really genuinely awful, like
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: just being beaten to death by another human being, Like
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: just beaten to death.
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: We go to a darker place and in part because
• 45:57
  Speaker 7: you know, it doesn't take Ahead in a box to
• 45:59
  Speaker 7: get at Connery to kill another human being. Yeah, you know,
• 46:04
  Speaker 7: it's yeah, man, I mean again, I'm just I'm just
• 46:09
  Speaker 7: gobsmacked that this was like that. I haven't been hearing
• 46:14
  Speaker 7: that this is a great film for years because this
• 46:16
  Speaker 7: is like, this is this feels like especially especially as
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: like a film school centophile. This feels like one of
• 46:23
  Speaker 7: those movies, you know, like Charlie Verrick or something that,
• 46:27
  Speaker 7: you know, a crime movie that has passed along, like
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: you know, part of the special Secrets of cinephiles. That's
• 46:33
  Speaker 7: like a little bit deeper cut, but feels like it
• 46:36
  Speaker 7: should be at least at the Charlie Verick level. And
• 46:39
  Speaker 7: it's not. It's it's not talked about it, but I
• 46:42
  Speaker 7: hope we can get people talking about it, because it's like,
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: this is this is a really incredible film, and I'm
• 46:47
  Speaker 7: glad that it's you know, it's gonna be interrupted by uh,
• 46:51
  Speaker 7: you know, commercials for all kinds of drugs with a
• 46:53
  Speaker 7: million different bad indications, but it is on to be
• 46:57
  Speaker 7: and people should watch it. It's a real thing, beauty,
• 47:00
  Speaker 7: this film and real horrors.
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: You mentioned the police station. One thing I picked up
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: on when I was watching the second time was because
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: we get that scene in the hallway where they discover
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: that Connery is beating the guy to death, and you
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: see that scene play out a few times, and it
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: took me until the second viewing to see the ladder
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: that was in the hallway, and I'm like, why, how
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: is this ladder here? And then when you get to
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: the Trevor Howard part, you see like the wall is
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: ripped away, there's a toilet sitting right behind Connery. This
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: wall is sure, there's a ladder over here, this ladder.
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: It's like they are read either rebuilding or re renovating
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: this whole place. So it's that whole like this place
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: is unfinished, it is unsettled. We are put into just
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: the place itself is a place that is not complete,
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: you know. And like again to your point about the
• 47:57
  Speaker 6: brutalist stuff, like those metal shutters that seem to be
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: like on the wall on the opposite side from that ladder,
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: Like it's just like what is going on? And like
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: just that the guy can hear the screams from inside
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: of there. There are no windows, there's no one way
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: mirror here.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: You're just like you have to trust that whatever's going
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: on in there is okay. And yeah, people probably beat
• 48:20
  Speaker 6: people all the time at police stations, but this one
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: is bad enough that he goes and gets help. Holy shit,
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: it must be really bad.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: You guys. Ever noticed how if you take drywall off
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: of walls, that studs look like jail cell bars. Yeah,
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: studded up walls just look like jail cell bars, especially
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: that scene with Connery and Trevor Howard where he's sitting
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: there in that chair behind him. It's just the walls
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: that have been built out with just this, you know,
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: the two by fours just casually looks like a jail
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: cell just actually looks like a jail wall. Like it's.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies is Glenngary Glenn Ross, which
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: I mean is a glorified adaptation fucking play like it it.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: I would say it effectively adds nothing new to an
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: otherwise perfect stage play like it's. It is a It
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: is a except for.
• 49:04
  Speaker 7: The brass balls the ball right, and that's and that's
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: so good to the play.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: Right. Other than that, the movie is not going out
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: of its way to do anything. It is a straight
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: up retelling of a play. And I love when a
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: film does that. This does more than Glengarry Glen Ross
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: does in so many ways, but I think it touches
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: on that same idea of like less ultimately is more.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: When the writing is this good and the acting is
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: this good, you don't have to like judge it up
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: with a bunch of bullshit. You can just let the
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: movement and the action, and the actors command the scene
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: because they do. Connery and Trevor Howard in that scene
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: are amazing. Connery and Ian Bannon in their scene together
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: are amazing, Like they don't. You don't need anything else.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: That's why it's a stage play and that's why it
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: stood alone as a stage play before this ever came out.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: Like when the writing is good, you can literally just
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: have two p talking and the said dressing falls away.
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: It's interesting for me too, the way, you know, you're
• 50:05
  Speaker 6: talking about the whole performative thing, and you know, is
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: this person guilty? And we're looking for this. We're looking
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: for that because of us looking us being the observers
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: of this whole story, us being this audience, We are
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: looking for all those little micro things, you know, like oh,
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: did you notice how he reacted when Conory brought up
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: his kids? You know, did you notice how Connery reacted
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: when this happened?
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 50:32
  Speaker 6: And just see like we are there constantly trying to
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: figure this out, like we are kept off guard the
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: entire time. That the nonlinear structure is helping with that,
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: the flashbacks are helping with that. The recasting of Connery
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: as the rapist is helping with that. It's amazing that
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: we are just constantly being kept off our feet. There's
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: no point in this movie where you feel comfortable, me
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: be in the first twenty minutes when it's kind of
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: a police procedural, but even then it starts like these
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: kind of things.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so completely jarring.
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, by the way, is this person? Who
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: are these guys? Okay, I guess they're cops. What's going on?
• 51:15
  Speaker 7: Oh?
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: I guess there were two this abductions before. What happened
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: to those girls? We don't know? Like constantly and they
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: like are purposefully omitting things to keep us just on
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: tenter hooks. Like, at no point does the offender potential,
• 51:32
  Speaker 6: you know, rapists say, well, listen, I was just out
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: having a pint at the bar and I fell in
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: some mud and I did, Like, we don't get that stuff.
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: We are kept so off balance.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: I find the part of the film that's the most
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: disturbing to be anytime we cut away to Connery with
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: the little girl.
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, what it's awful.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: It's awful. It's the worst part of this movie because
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: it I mean again, it speaks to like you just
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: mentioned Mike. We we don't know in this room of
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: two human beings, which of them is the shark and
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: which one isn't and they both they might both be
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: the shark.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you've ever played the board game
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: were Wolf, but if you play it with enough people,
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: there are two were wolves in that crowd sometimes. And
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: that's my read of this situation. You know, I know
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: everybody likes to go, oh the thing, you know, what
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: happened at the end of the thing? Who's the thing
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: at the end of the thing. What if they're both
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: the fucking thing? And that's this? That's this right here,
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: Like this scene is less a good cop and a
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: bad guy. It's two bad people. Just we don't know
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: which shade of bad each one of them is. But
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: they're both very pet But the issue is, we don't
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: know in any other film, you wouldn't know that about
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Connery without being given all that backstory and given those
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: flashbacks and those those flashes into his mind, because otherwise
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: he seems like a justified cop until you see the
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: internal monologue that he's having with himself constantly. I mean again,
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: you know, Trevor Howard even says it like a case
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: like this, we understand, but then Connery starts outing himself.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: It's like your mouse, dude, like stop cockey, stop saying
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: these things. And it's yeah, it's that makes this so
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: much better than any other kind of thing like this
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: I've seen before.
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: That crazy bitch in the suv, it was going to
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: run me over, so I had to shoot her in
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: the fucking face, right, yeah, Okay, well you know what,
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: We'll just move you over to another department and you'll
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: be absolutely fine. It's it's like the Catholic Priests cut. Yeah,
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: oh yeah, well that guy was definitely pulling out his
• 53:33
  Speaker 6: gun and and had fired shots at us. I'm sure
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: of it. So yeah, and it's so oh god, it's
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: just fascinating to me. Like I think the if you
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: were to recut this as a linear story, I think
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: the last thing we see of him is like after
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: Trevor Howard is done with them. But when you put
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: it in the context of how this movie actually is cut,
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: I think it's like an hour and a half out
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: of a close to two hour movie is basically the
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: end of the film, you know, and then we go
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: back and now we see the titular offense as a word.
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: You know, which is the offense? Is that the thing
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: against a little girl or is it the thing that
• 54:12
  Speaker 6: happens with this potential suspect? You know, like which is it?
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: And then going back into that, you know, half an
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: hour before this movie ends, and basically, yeah, it's half
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: an hour of these two guys just going at it.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Holy fuck. Is that amazing?
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: And I like that the movie spends ample time building
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: that up and leaving us in the dark, and then
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: when we get to it, it's like, oh, okay, that's
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: what this is. Like Connery outs himself to this guy
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: as a man with murderous and rapist fantasies, and then again,
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: you could this is another way to read it. He
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: has to kill him, he has no choice. The guy
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: rebuffs him, and he goes, you know what time to die?
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: And you know what you could you know, I know,
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: we could say what this is, you know, we we
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: could look at this as a lot of things, transpose
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: this onto a lot of situations where emotional vulnerability is
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: given in one direction and it's received, and then you
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: give it back in the other direction and the person
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: rebuffs you. I mean, we've seen that in film before
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: with other kinds of situations. Normally, it's a queer thing
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: where it's like I'm gay. I don't know, I'm not gay,
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: but I accept that you're gay. Like that normally is
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: more kind of the usual situation with characters being rebuff
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: But I like how there is this kind of weird
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: undertone here of share with me. I'll show you yours
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: if you show you mine, And then when he shows
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: him his, he's like, oh, just fuck you, like never mind,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: deal with it yourself like, and it's like, oh, yeah, okay,
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: Like I guess my only choice now was to just
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: fucking kill you.
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: The way he grabs on you know, I was talking
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: about those hands and you've got that amazing shot with
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: Trevor Howard where he says like, yo, in these hands,
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: and you like get that shot of the hands in
• 55:57
  Speaker 6: front of Howard's face, remember, yeah, and you cut back
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: to Connory and his hands are up like that and
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: then all of the stuff that's going on. You know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: I talked about how he grabs the guy by that,
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: you know, with those massive hands, but then he like
• 56:09
  Speaker 6: holds onto his hands and just squeezing that guy's hands
• 56:15
  Speaker 6: so tight. He's just like, oh, you know, like you
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: have to stop kind of thing, basically crushes his hands.
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: He even uses his hands on his wife and it's
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: like grabbing onto her face and stuff, and just like
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: he's so oh physical and just such a brute in
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: this movie.
• 56:29
  Speaker 7: Well, and there's there's a rhyme in terms of imagery
• 56:33
  Speaker 7: in the scene with his wife where it looks like
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: things are about to get rapie, you know, where where
• 56:39
  Speaker 7: he's over on top of her and he you know,
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: pushes her legs apart and one of his legs goes.
• 56:45
  Speaker 7: He does not rape her in the scene, but that's
• 56:48
  Speaker 7: what the imagery is. And then when he throws Ian
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: Bannon down onto the table, we get very similar compositions
• 56:56
  Speaker 7: that then feel like he's going to rape Ian Bannon,
• 56:59
  Speaker 7: right he grabs him from behind, He literally has him
• 57:03
  Speaker 7: from behind, and it's just a faguely homo erotic fashion. Yeah.
• 57:08
  Speaker 7: And then and then there's also rhyme with the way
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: that he has to hold the girl down on the
• 57:12
  Speaker 7: ground and the way that he gets placed in the
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: sort of pedophile position and in his own mind and
• 57:18
  Speaker 7: these flashes. So it's there's a very consistent, very dark,
• 57:25
  Speaker 7: you know through line for uh, for Connory Conrie's character
• 57:29
  Speaker 7: that is is created here and his his performance matches
• 57:35
  Speaker 7: the cinematics that that Lumette is is throwing his way.
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: Oh god, and I forgot that. They cut back to
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: him one last time at the end where he's just
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: talking to himself. There's like the coy like he's now
• 57:48
  Speaker 6: in the hot seat and there's a cop over there,
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: and he's just like he wanted me to do this,
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: you know, he had he wanted me. And I'm like,
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: oh man, you were just talking yourself into this, Like yeah,
• 58:00
  Speaker 6: well I am completely justified. Like he is one off
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: the reservation at the end of this movie. And what
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: a stark fucking end of this. Like when the credits
• 58:10
  Speaker 6: started rolling, I was like, oh my god, I feel
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: like I've just been gutted like a fish.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: It reminded me a lot of The Hill, The Hill,
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: And in the same way, we get Connery, you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: steering into and in this it's like, oh god, my god,
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: like what the fuck with a Lumette really loved ending
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: films on a shot of Connery just acting bewildered.
• 58:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it isn't another thing. It's like, you know, I
• 58:36
  Speaker 7: I really love Sidney Lumette. But this is a this
• 58:40
  Speaker 7: is a film that makes me want to go back
• 58:42
  Speaker 7: to some of his other work to just like clock
• 58:46
  Speaker 7: how fucking dark he can go that. That's not precisely
• 58:50
  Speaker 7: his reputation. No, Lumette's reputation is yes, uh, you know,
• 58:55
  Speaker 7: certainly a kind of hard boiled professional, uh who really
• 59:01
  Speaker 7: delivers great cinematic storytelling, but in a lot of circles,
• 59:05
  Speaker 7: is not even you know, sort of treated as an oteur,
• 59:07
  Speaker 7: but more of a journeyman director who takes on lots
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: of different stuff. And I gotta say this, this reminded me, well,
• 59:16
  Speaker 7: this is farther out there, but it reminded me of
• 59:18
  Speaker 7: when I saw When the Devil Knows You're Dead, which
• 59:22
  Speaker 7: I was not. I was not adequately prepared for how
• 59:25
  Speaker 7: nasty that film was gonna be. And this is this
• 59:29
  Speaker 7: is nastier and darker still uh and uh it uh yeah,
• 59:34
  Speaker 7: it makes me uh, it makes me really want to
• 59:37
  Speaker 7: reevaluate some of Lumet's work for like what a tough,
• 59:41
  Speaker 7: nasty son of a bitch he can be as a director,
• 59:44
  Speaker 7: really admirable, really great, really really great stuff. I mean again,
• 59:49
  Speaker 7: thinking of I'm a big fan of Fincher. And you know,
• 59:53
  Speaker 7: we mentioned Zodiac earlier. For instance, I absolutely love Zodiac,
• 59:57
  Speaker 7: but but I gotta say, you know, well, like and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: Lumetsen is definitely an influence on Zodiac. But I gotta
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 7: say this is this is this is really going to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 7: a darker, tougher place, you know, a much more adult
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 7: Are you ready for this kind of place?
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: Well? And I think it helps that this is not
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: based on a real thing. I mean, it's inspired by
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: based on real events where cops actually do this and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: for what reason? You know, they could say, but we
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: may will never know, you know, Fincher in Zodiac is
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: bound by the reality of the case. I like that
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: this is not based on any one thing that we
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: do kind of have the ability to. Like you said, Spencer,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: push it as far as we can go. With him
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: murdering this guy in cold blood with his bare hands,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: not I mean literally not even shooting him, like to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: point out, this is the most brutal way to die
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: as far as I'm concerned. Is this that being beaten
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: to death by this like six foot plus Scottish man
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: and having him crush his hands, your head in his hands,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: like Jesus Christ. No, thank you.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 6: I never saw before The Devil Knows Your Dad, and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 6: I really want to now. For whatever reason, I was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 6: mixing it up with I can't remember the the Mike
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: Agitas film that had a similar title, maybe as I'll
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: Sleep when I'm Dead or something, which is also really
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: fucking brutal. And I don't know why I was mixing
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: those two films up in my brain, but yeah, now
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: I'm like, okay, yeah, fucking phillipsy Moore Hoffman, Ethan hawk.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Right is in that, I think.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: And Albert Fiddley, I'm like, oh god, you can't really
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: get much better than that. And yeah, to have Sidney
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 6: la Mette directing that too, okay, yeah, yeah, it is
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: weird when you think of like, oh yeah, and he
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: also did The Whiz and it's like what wait what.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but you know, like I'm teaching a horror class
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 7: right now, and I pulled sequences from The Wiz. I mean,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 7: the Wiz is is notorious, like that scene in the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 7: subway is horrific. So and and Lumette didn't even really
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 7: love doing that film. Uh, and there's there's just there is.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 7: I I love Wiz. There's amazing stuff in it. It's
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 7: a bonkers film.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 6: I saw a lot of times when I was growing up,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 6: So yeah.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 7: But the scares in The Wiz are really intense. Uh,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 7: They're like the scares yeah technically are PG rated, but
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 7: they are nightmare fuel for a child, and like have
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 7: always been scary to me. And when you know, my
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 7: nephews and I were watching it, they were definitely they
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 7: were definitely horrified at particular points in that movie.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, Charlie and the Choco Factory is a Willy
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Wonk and The Chalk Factor is a notorious for kids.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: It's a PG movie. Yeah, yeah, fucked Up That Returned
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: to Oz is a PG movie. And it's also.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 7: That's another one I showed in my class, like did
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 7: a whole day about like the traumas of Wizard of
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 7: Oz adaptations. Because it's no joke.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: PG is not created equal, as they would say, like
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: nog ratings are not created equal.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: No, I mean, you know, Jaws was PG. That scared
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: the but Jesus out of me. He scared the begs
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 6: out of millions of people. And it's a PG movie,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 6: you know, but that had shot of the head coming
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: out of the boat still makes me jump.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 7: Holdergeist is PG, and that's scarier than a whole pile
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 7: of like hard hor horror films.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a lot of these lament films where I'm well,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: obviously I'm familiar with some of the bigger ones, you know, Like,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: this is making me want to go back and rewatch
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: Surpuco or give it another chance, because I was not
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: a fan the first time I saw it. This is
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: making me want to, you know, track down. You know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 6: obviously I'm a fan of Dog Day Afternoon and stuff.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 6: I remember Equis fucking me up when I was a kid.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 6: Oh god, but I've never seen Prince of the City,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: which is one of those that people do definitely talk about.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh right, yeah, I guess I should probably
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 6: finally see this, or now that I'm older than ten
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: years old, maybe now I'll understand the verdict.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: If I watch it.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 6: Because that was the first time I saw it, was
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 6: what I was because I was ten when I saw that.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: I was probably nine or eight whenever Eques was showing
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 6: on cable.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that was way too Yes, yes, oh wow, boy.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: Meets horse Boy, falls in love with horse Boy, kills horase.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 7: Yes, ooh yeah, yeah, no, Lamette's you know, really really
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 7: fascinating figure. You know, I'm not going to argue over
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 7: a tour.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 7: I ultimately don't care too much about that. But there
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 7: is a darker embrace and a darker personality that he
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 7: brings to the work that I think is not darkness
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 7: for its own sake. I mean, I actually don't even
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 7: want to say dark at this point in our history.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 7: That's that's like one of those terms for cinema that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 7: has come to have such a degraded sort of meaning.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 7: But this, this is the This is the real This
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 7: is the real deal. This is uh, you know, people
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 7: on screen dealing with the shadow, you know, this is
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 7: It's no it's no joke and uh yeah really so
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 7: so well executed, so mysterious. It's ultimately unsettling, not simply
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 7: because it takes us to uh, you know, into a
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 7: kind of hellish place and a hellish mind. Uh, but
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 7: but ultimately that it there's it isn't simply ambiguous. It
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 7: leaves us in essential mystery about about these characters. The
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 7: ambiguity is like this, that's like the tip of the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 7: iceberg that's above the surface. Is the ambiguity of whether
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 7: the suspect really did it or not? You know what
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 7: is what in the hearts of these these two men,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 7: and of Trevor Howard and the other police who you know,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 7: we see and this comes up as a thing right
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 7: out of the gate. I mean, it's the movie's only
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 7: sort of funny moment. I generally generally don't go in
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 7: for movies that don't have much comedy to them, but
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 7: this really does it. This is this is like, there's
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 7: very little that's funny, But the funniest moment in it
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 7: is when they go to the pub and of course,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 7: you know, in a very morbid turn, they've gone to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 7: the pub because they think that the the pedophile is
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 7: not on the prowl, and they find out nope, they
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 7: shouldn't have gone to the pub. They should have been
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 7: watching those kids, and you know, the guy has nabbed
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 7: another victim, the closest thing to a joke in the
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 7: entire movie, And Connery's reaction in that moment is like
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 7: he absolutely knew that this was what's gonna happen. And
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: that's part of that's part of the darkness that drives him,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 7: is knowing the you know, the worst possible thing is
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 7: going to happen, being sure of that worst possible thing
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 7: because he's inside.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: It, he's living it. It's part of his existence.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: What a movie? What a movie?
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: And yeah, definitely not a feel good film.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 7: Don't go into this feel good.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: No no, don't don't look for this on a Sunday
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: afternoon if you're just like, yeah, let's chill out and
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: watch a movie.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Hn.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I feel good talking about it with you guys, though,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 7: this is a great movie to chew over. So it's like,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 7: you know, they should, they should probably, you know, we
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 7: got Bleak Week coming up here again in Chicago. This
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 7: strikes me as a major contender for inclusion in Bleak
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: Week because it's the kind of very bleak, difficult, nasty
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 7: film that you should see in a theater and then
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 7: chew over with your friends that you went with afterwards. It's,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 7: you know, a great intense, difficult conversation starter.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: And I think in this in this day and age,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: holy shit, I mean this, this is a rather we
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: we I mean, Mike, you made allusions to it, but
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: it is also a pretty pressioned film as well. Obvious
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: you know, cops being up to no good is not
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: just a thing in the films, folks, it's also a
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: thing in the real life, which I mean again like
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: happens all the time in real life. Like sadly it
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: happens all the time in real life. But I do
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: think that this film also is rather topical and could
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: use some reappraisal, especially by those in positions to move
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: the needle more than you or I, though we can
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: still move the needle in our own respective way. I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: think this is a movie that actually has a rather
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: large place in a conversation that needs to be had
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: right now, which is, you know, responsibility in policing and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: response and and and one's own responsibility when it comes
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: to cause. You know. Ultimately, by the end of the movie,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: Ian Bannon says it to Sean Connery, and it's the truth,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: like help your fucking self. It was Sean conneries it
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: was his job to handle his own problems, and he
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: did not. He chose not to intentionally. And we live
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: in a society now where people have no accountability for
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: their actions whatsoever we lack in it. We live in
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: a lack of accountability society. I know. People like to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: say we live in cancel culture. Well fucking universe does
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: anyone who's ever been canceled, actually ever stay canceled. For
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: fuck's sake, Lewis c K is back. Everybody's back, even
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: people that were branded as self branded as Nazis are back. Like,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: I don't want to hear about fucking cancel culture. It's
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: a lack of accountability. And that's what this movie ultimately preaches,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: is like, we should be practicing self accountability because if
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: we don't, we get to a point where a cop
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: murders a guy in custody and can somehow justify it
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: to himself. Even without the interior dialogue, he could still
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: justify it to himself. Even if we didn't know his
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: interior monologue, he still is externally justifying it, attempting to
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: any Well.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 7: It's interesting too because like it doesn't it doesn't really
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 7: deal with the view from outside of the police. The
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 7: police are centered here. They're the ones that we're watching.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 7: But as you talk about accountability, Chris, I do think
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 7: that it it gives us enough of a sense of
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 7: a system that while we are definitely seeing bad cops
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 7: and we are seeing a system of police work that
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 7: is not good for them and for other people, that uh,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 7: there there is also I think a certain questioning of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 7: what is what is the responsibility for creating law enforcement? Uh?
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 7: You know what, what is what is our responsibility toward
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 7: what uh you know what people have to go through,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 7: uh in order in order to do this job. And
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 7: that doesn't excuse anybody, And it doesn't make citizens more
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 7: guilty than the cops. That's not what I'm suggesting, but there,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: but it is suggestive enough of reciprocal relationships. And one
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 7: of the scenes that I think of, and it's early
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 7: on in the film that doesn't fully suggest this, but
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 7: Connery is kind of asking the question when the woman
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 7: who saw the little girl follow you know, the you know,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 7: the the pedophile away, you know, this woman who sees
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 7: this incident at the beginning, she's being questioned about it
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 7: because she has come forward, but she's come forward really
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 7: late and potentially you know, too late to save the child.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 7: And and and you know, Connery attacks her for this,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 7: and of course, on one level, no, she's done the
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 7: right thing. But just doing the right thing, even a
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 7: moment late, I don't blame her more than then then
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 7: just you know, thinking twice three times whatever before she's
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 7: shown up at the police station.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: But this is.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 7: This is like a really really interesting push and pull
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 7: that goes on in this film. Uh and yeah, the
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 7: the sort of again, the corruption of that system is
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 7: not as simple as one guy. It's not as simple
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 7: as the cops. It is it is a whole it's
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 7: it's a whole community of humanity that we're bound up in.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: The whole systems out of order, the whole systems out
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 6: of order. I know that's not Lamette, but but it is.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's unfortunately, it is the truth. Unfortunately.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And the film I think leans into it in
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: a way that doesn't feel preachy. It just feels part
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: of the story. And yeah, yeah, that's a good thing.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: It's not that I have a problem with the preachy film,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: it's just they can do better when they did.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think this has you know, all tragedy
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 7: has a preachy dimension. And I really do think that
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 7: this is This is very much a kind of modern tragedy.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 7: And tragedy isn't only about the quote unquote hero dying.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 7: You know, Oedipus Rex, he doesn't die, he just tears
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 7: his eyes out. But Connery here is a kind of
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 7: tragic hero driven to his own destruction, and you know,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 7: tragedy is a mode for dealing with the forces that
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 7: are much greater than any of the characters, or even
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 7: the characters collectively.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: What a great film, Mike, Geez, Louise, what a pick?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you picked a great one.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and just kind of luck of the draw, you know,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 6: just one of those yet It's been on my watch
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 6: list forever and really need to do this, So that's
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 6: kind of how this month came together. Was Well, I
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 6: sure there's a lot of Sean Connery films, like there's
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 6: one The Five Days in August that I've been wanting
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 6: to watch forever too, but I was just like, eh,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 6: I'm not putting that on the list. I'll put these
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 6: others on here. And I'm glad that it's worked out
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 6: so far. So fingers crossed for the next one.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: Mike, you just wanted to see a child molester get murdered,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: that's what.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it was, well, yeah, yeah, it's nice if pedophiles
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 6: actually have to pay some consequences. So if that guy
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 6: was a pedophile, he got he deserved.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: Oh man, waiting for a hot take, Spencer, I think
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: Mike just had the hottest take all that is.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 7: That's pretty hot. That's pretty hot. No, my hot take
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 7: is not that hot. Uh, it's just you know, my
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 7: my favorite my favorite Bond uh is is Thunderball U
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 7: out of all not just I know people don't like Thunderball,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 7: and I'm like, no, it got lots of underwater and
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 7: sharks and uh sharks in pools and all it just it.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I I enjoy it's trashy, and I enjoy Bond
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 7: in a trashy mode. But but Diamonds Are Forever. On
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 7: the other hand, that movie stinks. That is not a
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 7: good Bond movie. But I'll take it because it was
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 7: the necessary price to get the offense. So all is forgiven,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 7: diamonds are Forever. I won't watch again, but all is forgiven,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 7: Diamonds Are Forever. Is totally worth it because it got
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 7: the offence made.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that. But yeah, Thunderball is not great, man,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: I don't Yeah, you don't like that, your choice of that,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: that's fucked.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah, my dad, my dad's probably he was he was right,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 7: he was a he was a from Russia with love guy.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 7: And I do really like that one. But Thunderball has
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 7: my heart.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: I just I love.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 7: I love the ridiculousness of it all.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: What was the one that Richard liked on our show,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: Mike Octopussy was that his? That was his? I mean
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: mine was a view to a kill someone.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 7: It's pretty bad.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think we've made anything that's of
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: you to a kill so you oh wow that I know.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 7: I got no room as a Bond villain though, I
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 7: mean walking as a Bond villain very strong. And the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 7: Duran Duran theme uh, one of the best Bond themes. True,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 7: now a great song, great song.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 6: But diamond Sire Forever is kind of a retread of
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: gold Finger as far as the theme song goes.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 6: Isn't it even Shirley Bassey doing that same yeah yeah,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 6: diamonds off.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: Ah, that's right right, over and over and over again.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 7: But I also like Never Say Never Again, which is
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 7: which is basically a remake of Thunderball, that one.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 6: I like to because affect him a blush. So yeah,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 6: I'm right there with you on that one.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: Nope, nope, no, man, it's like giving me PTSD flashbacks.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: I'm like sitting here like Sean Connor in the offense,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: just like I see his face playing Battleship Laser Tag
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: game on the computer, Like, yeah.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 7: We went from the sublime to the ridiculous, and that's good.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 7: I should not even bring up as much as I
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 7: enjoy Thunderball, I should not even bring it up in
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 7: the same conversation as the offense.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: Wow, it doesn't seem like the same actor, but it is,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: so it is.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 7: It's the same actor. Man, he's so good. And there's
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 7: another thing too. She ate here too is for all like, boy,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 7: oh boy, do we get a whole lot of talk
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 7: once uh, once people start talking, we get these like
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 7: big long monologue dialogue scenes with them. But the first
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 7: big chunk of the movie, man, I just love seeing
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 7: like Connery walking from one place to another, and Connery
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 7: looking and Connery observing and Connory listening. Incredible, the man
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 7: just like walks and listens so well. It's like thrilling,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 7: uh you know. And and actually I think sets the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 7: stage really well for when he does start to talk,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 7: all this all this stuff that's been stored up as
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 7: he's just been silent in the first big chunk of
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 7: the movie comes spewing out. You know, he's uh, he's
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 7: being shaken uh and and uh, eventually he's he's gonna
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 7: vomit it all out, and it's it's that's also like
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 7: a really beautiful and I think again, very cinematic way
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 7: of telling a story, or arrive at the talk when
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 7: the talk becomes absolutely necessary for the characters, and not
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 7: a moment before, because at first I was like, man,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 7: this is laconic it We're really not getting a lot
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 7: of dialogue, and I was down. I was like, this
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 7: is this is like Lumet kind of inspiring Michael Mann
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 7: or somebody you know. Uh, And then then it takes
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 7: this turn into the real intense, you know, stage dramatic
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 7: kind of dialogue, and I'm so here for it. It
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 7: adds both of those things work together and uh, all
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 7: all that all that visual, more silent kind of acting,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 7: uh pays off so well. Uh when uh yeah, when.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: He just volcanically erupts and and I love that we
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: get to see that side of Connery, even if it's
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 4: just for a moment, because again we saw it in
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: Bond so much with that like that brutal the brutalism
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: that he would bring to it. But then you know,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: he can kill a man and make love to a
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: woman in the same scene, and not all bonds can
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: get away with that. Connery, I guess he's he's like
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: one of the few, and it's believable. And this is
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: the same thing here where by the end of the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: movie I can see why he's like an uncaged animal
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: and he goes after the cops and then he is
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: able to restrain himself finally, because only he is able
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: to restrain himself because of just the level of emotion
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: that he's operating at. But like you said, Spencer, like
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: he is, he has to get to that eleven, and
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: when he gets to that eleven, it's, you know, a
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: one bad day. You know what happens on the one
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: bad day? This is his you know, it took twenty
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: out of the poster for it says like after twenty years,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: Sergeant Johnson's you know, he's had enough, and it's like, yeah,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: you know, anybody in that room with him, Kenneth, you
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: know Ian Bannon's Kenneth Baxter or not, probably would have
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: had a hard time being talked out of not being
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: murdered by Sean Connery.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 7: Honestly, well, this is also you mentioned that this is
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 7: a really I hadn't looked at the poster. But this
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 7: is a really sly, maybe even unintentional way to sell
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 7: this movie, because that kind of it took twenty years
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 7: for this cop. You you kind of then expect that
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 7: this is gonna be more of a redemptive, violent, dirty,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 7: hairy kind of thing if that's what's being sold, twenty
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 7: years of anger. You know, the angry cop is like,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 7: you know, finally he's gonna get him some justice. And
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 7: that is not what this movie delivers, though. It is
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 7: about the twenty years of anger that you can feel
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 7: in that performance.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 6: Well, and of course this movie did not do well
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: at the box office. People were not clamoring to go
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 6: see this one. I mean, the critics knew what was
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: going on, but yeah, this was not nobody's coming in.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Like I said, you know, oh it's amazing.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 7: It is seventy three.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly when we are primed and ready for the
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: most dire, desperate stories that we've ever seen on screen.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 6: You know, when when a happy little, go lucky thing
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 6: of two friends travel across the country as fucking scarecrow,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 6: you know, like nothing is good, you know, like, yeah,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 6: I mean people wonder why Star Wars and Jaws were
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 6: such big hits. It's like, have you seen what other
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 6: people are watching? Yes, of course they were escape ast things,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 6: and you know, all throughout the setup the cinema history.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 6: But I mean we were pumping out some great.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Dire, dire films.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 6: So yeah, and this is one of the most. Like
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 6: I said, man, when those credits roll, when we cut
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 6: back to that that police uh interrogation one last time
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 6: and he's just knocked out three of his fellow officers
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 6: after killing the suspect and you get that that light
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 6: superimposed again and we go to credits and I'm just
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 6: like jaw is on the floor.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, Yes, Rarely do films go for it the
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: way this film and source material goes for it. I
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: would love to have seen the seven the eighty seven
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 4: revival with David Suchet on stage as the Sergeant Johnson character, right, Souchet?
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 6: Can you imagine him bringing it.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 4: As a not as a Middle Eastern man? Thankfully? God, yes,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: Christ's I think up with David Soouche is POI row
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: and then as a Middle Eastern man, which the very
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: wide margin of things. Unfortunately, such a good actor, though
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: I can only imagine what his turn as sergeant Johnson
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: would have would have looked like and again someone who
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: is like kind of seen a certain way because of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: a certain thing.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: Well, it's funny because the met did one of the
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 6: Poirot films of the seventies. That was when Albert Finney
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 6: was playing far Row for Murder under the Sun, not
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 6: Murder under the Sun, sorry, Murder on the Express.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, isn't that yet another Connery.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 7: Is another lutte?
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it is another lumette. Yeah yeah.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 6: And Connery's is Connory in that?
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: Is that as well? I want to say the dead
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: body he plays arbuthnot is that the dead body?
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 6: It could be. I can't remember the name of the
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 6: character that when I saw the remake, the Brono remake,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 6: and I was like, oh, Johnny Deppson's always dead.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's pretty quick, pretty quick.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 6: I think that was the movie. Everybody was like pretty
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 6: happy with his performance. Oh, Johnny Depps in this and
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 6: he gets murdered brutally. Okay, good, we like that.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: It is the Richard. It is the Richard Widmark character
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: in that film. That is the Johnny depp.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay, so he's actually one of the Sorry, yeah, yeah,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 6: you're right. That was yet another Lumett Connery thing. And
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: then I know I saw Family Business when it was out,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 6: but I don't remember anything about it. In my mind,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 6: I mix it up with The Freshman.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah right right, Yeah, five movies together, that is. That's
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 7: no joke, guys, Like you're continuing collaboration.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and not all of them are similarly Like they're
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: all kind of of a piece, but they're not all
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: similarly toned either. Like Family Business is much more of
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: a comedy pet than this movie is. That's yeah, go
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: flowing me.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 7: Yeah yeah. I mean like Taxi Driver is like an
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 7: uproarious comedy compared to this.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: You know, really it's got a lot of high moments
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: of high comedy, don't doesn't it's.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 6: Ironic you bring that up. I'm supposed to record an intro.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 6: There's a film society in Susse Marie, Ontario, and they're like, hey,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 6: can you record an intro for us for Taxi Driver.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 6: I'm like, okay, sure, yeah, Like, what a fun night
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 6: at the movies. It's going to be Saturday night for
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 6: these people to go out and see Taxi Driver. All right,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 6: no kidding, Yeah, no, it's we the People, not we
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: the People.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. No, that is a really funny movie.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 7: It is really funny and in the darkest possible ways.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean goes to uh that movie goes
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 7: to hell by the end. And also, you know, as
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 7: a famously ambiguous ending that is, you know, deeply unsettling.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 7: But but that's a relatively fun time compared to the offense.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: Most things are, including seven, Including seven, a film that
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: ends with the man opening a box with Gwyneth Paltrow's
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: head in it. You know, oh, is that t what's
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: in the box? What in the box?
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 6: Because he was asking nobody ever told them?
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: Somebody ever told him?
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a Christmas present.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 4: Se Mike. It's the implication.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: Okay, it's all about the implication.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 7: Hmm.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: Track it down on tub when you're watching your other
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: bullshit on TB. I guess I don't know, ye what
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: else does put do people watch on tub? Like, I
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: don't know, but you can watch this.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 7: Well, you can watch almost anything on tub. Is the thing.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 7: It's like, it's the closest you got to put up
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 7: with the ads, which is of course horrible, but of
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 7: the streaming services. It's the closest thing to a corner
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 7: video store that there is. Truth, it's a very sad
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 7: state of affairs because like, if I got to watch commercials,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 7: I'd rather pay late fees, you know, to the corner
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 7: video store.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: Is that well, watching the ads is in this day
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: and age.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: Late fees. Yeah, I would rather.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 7: You cannot speed through them. They've made that impossible. And uh,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 7: you know again you know that it's maybe this is
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 7: maybe maybe I'm being told a message by the bye,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 7: by the advertising universe. But uh man, it's always it's
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 7: always ads for drugs, and they're always like happy fun
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 7: ball by the end where where it's like all the
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 7: indications go on and on and on like that Saturday
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 7: Night Live sketch. It's like, I'm going, wait, if you've
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 7: got like to stop smoking, if this drug causes suicidal ideations,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 7: should you be advertising and on television? Even if you're warning.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: People, Hey, is it? Maybe it's better to being depressed,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe better.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 7: Than being depressed.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 6: They can't advertise for cigarettes or a lot of alcohols
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 6: on TV. But yeah, we're okay with you with all
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 6: this other stuff. Yeah, do not take it if you
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 6: are pregnant or intend on becoming pregnant.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's ever in.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: My life, that's my state normally, as I'm always intending
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: to be pregnant.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 6: So I'm ovulating right now, right at this moment.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but you know, I guess yeah for people watching
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 7: it on TV. The that's that's the price you gotta
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 7: you gotta sit through some uh some some bad drug indications.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 7: Uh you know, red at lightning speed.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: Well, on that note, let's take a break and we'll
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: play a preview for the uh well, the next Culture
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: cast of Mike White.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 8: May.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 9: I'm Susan and I'm Sharon, and we're the hosts of
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 9: Eighties tv Ladies. Check us out wherever you find your
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 9: favorite podcasts, and please like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 9: and Twitter.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 6: At Eighties tv Ladies.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 9: You can find interviews and exclusive behind the scenes content
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 9: on all of your favorite eighties TV ladies. Eighties tv
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 9: Ladies is the place to go.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: Please join us.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 7: Hi, this is HP from Noise Junkies and this.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 5: Is follom Alone from Dark Destinations.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 7: Please join us as we examine one of the greatest
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 7: sitcoms in television history, Taxi on Night. Mister Walters at
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 7: Taxi Podcast.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: Good night, mister Walters, good evening, and welcome to Night Gallery.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Rod, and I want to welcome everyone to
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: Midnight Viewing, where once a month we talk all about
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 5: your follow up to the Twilight Zone, Rod Serling's Night Gallery.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 5: They say it's Rod too Las Night Gallery, and it
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 5: isn't really Rod too Las Night Gallery.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: Somebody else's.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 7: Oh, we know, we talk about it a lot.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: Your curators at Midnight Viewing are the projection Boots, Mike White.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 7: What can happen to human beings when trust is wiped
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 7: out by suspicion and culture casts?
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 5: Chris Stature, small Boy incasionally Crystal Ball, and I'm father Malone,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 5: the kind.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 6: Of thing that usually infests nightmares.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 5: Join us monthly at Midnight Viewing the Night Gallery Podcast
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 5: at Weirdingwaymedia dot Com.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: Doesn't remotely belong to me. I have no proprietary interest
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: in that at all.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: Within these walls men come to seek God.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: He has come to seek a killer.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 10: We found the body are ably mutilated under a window
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 10: which was which was found closed. Sabodi Tufia, a man
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 10: of reason in a world of blind faith. Yes, small Blood,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 10: here you mean that he committed suicide elementary and a
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 10: crime that.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Could not be suppressed in states. He did not write
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: with his time.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: By result, I don't like this place.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 10: I find it more stimulating.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: Should we tell him no? I am most curdsous in
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: the library for myself?
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: May I do so?
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 10: But what if you should learn it of his own accord?
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: Written with lemon juice, Hi, who's.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 4: That you're overestimates talents? This one I graduate did not
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: commit suicide.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: When he is challenged by a man of cruel and power,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: the hunter becomes the hunted brother.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 7: You please.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: The matter has occurred of the utmost gravity.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 7: Had someone else not chosen to look in the wrong direction,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 7: several men of God might still be with us all along.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 6: Trube that that's here, and they also.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 7: Will have blackened fingers and blackened town. His sand is back,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 7: just as brother William for told, Yes, I was right.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: He knew, just as I too would have known had
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: I been the murderer. You go go lock them up.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: One final murder has been playing master master.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: How'll we get out?
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: What's so difficulty? And it's his?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: Sean Connery F Murray Abraham The Name of the Rose,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: a story of unholy.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 4: So on the next Culture cast of Mike White May,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 4: we're gonna be taking a look at the name. I
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: was gonna say, in the Name of the Rose, the
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 4: Name of the Road.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 7: I have a special memory of the Name of the Rose. Uh,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 7: rented and watched that with my grandmother. Oh and yeah,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 7: you know, so it's like trip to the videos where
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 7: it's like, oh, Sean Connery, Oh it's about monks. You
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 7: think that this is gonna be totally fine, and then
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 7: it is very much not fine.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we've actually covered the Name of the Rose at
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 4: one point in the past, and Uh, I'm actually really
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 4: excited to recover it because it's a movie that I
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: really enjoy and Spencer similarly to yourself. I saw it
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 4: at my grandparents house when I was growing up, so
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 4: it's I mean, my grandparents loved Connery. My grandfather fucking it.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 4: He loved The Third Last Crusade, The third Indiana Jones
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: movie was his favorite. He loved Connery's bond and like
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 4: the Name of the Rose is just another further extension
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: of Connery and my grandparents to this. Speaking of the
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: POI Row and Aggie, the Christie of it all, they
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: were huge like Murder Mystery Readers. So the name of
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: the Rows is like right in that wheelhouse.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 7: So exactly makes perfect sense until it doesn't.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 4: And so we'll be joined on that episode by Richard HadAM,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 4: who we do another show with that I'm sure Mike
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: will plug when I give him an opportunity to, which
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: is right now. So, Mike, where can people find you
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: in the things that you work on when you're not
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: here with me?
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: Pretty much everything that I do is available over at
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 6: weirdingmamedia dot com as well, with that exception of the
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 6: show that we do with Richard, which is ranking on Bond,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 6: which is wrapping up this month or actually June first,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 6: I think will be the last episode that is a
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 6: Patreon exclusive, So come on over to patreon dot com
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 6: slash Projection booth or patreon dot com slash culture cast
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 6: get your eyes and ears on that one. And we
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 6: have an announcement coming up about a replacement show for
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 6: that which will not be patri exclusive, but if you
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 6: are a Patreon member you get early early.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Access to that one.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 6: So I'm waiting with baited breath to put out the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 6: word for that one.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: And it'll be ad free as well one month early
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 4: in ad free. Uh, Spencer, what about you? Anything you
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: want to plug anywhere people can find you if they
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: want to hunt you down.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 7: Uh No, I'm making myself more and more scarce on
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 7: social media. Uh really trying to pull away Uh yeah,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 7: current currently, you know, Uh, trying to get away from
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 7: Instagram because that's really become a cesspool of advertising and
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 7: I'm not I'm not getting to see pictures of my friends,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 7: dogs and children and vacations so much anymore because it
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 7: feels like, uh, kind of a.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 4: Kind of a messed up ghost town.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 7: So I don't I don't know, but you know, I'm teaching.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 7: We're we're a few weeks away from finally getting to summer,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 7: and then I'm gonna finally finish this movie I've been
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 7: working on for too long. So That's what I'm up to.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 7: And yeah, so people won't be able to find me
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 7: because uh the rest of school, I'm hunkering down and then, uh,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 7: I will not emerge publicly until my movie is done,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 7: because it has to be finished finally.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 6: Not until that groundhogs. He's a shadow, that's.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 7: Right, exactly. No, I mean, I believe me. I have
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 7: been living in groundhog Day for a long time.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: Uh bucks to Tony Parsons as they call it.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 7: I haven't heard exactly. Oh my god, not the god
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 7: A got hey got.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 4: Well. As for me, you can find me over atwirdingwaymedia
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: dot com as well, where the things that I work
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: on can be found, like this show, the soon to
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 4: be announced show that Mike is talking about that will
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: not be a Patreon exclusive, and so many other things.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 4: Uh yeah, that's where you can find it, So going
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: over there, like rate and review this show on iTunes
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 4: or Spotify. Please, if you're getting it somewhere else, get
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: it on one of those two places. Either one is fine.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: At this point, I can't really advocate for either in
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 4: either direction because it doesn't seem to matter. But do
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: one of those two if you're going to get your
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: podcasts anywhere. Spencer, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: This was a great conversation.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you, really really happy to be invited along.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 4: Thanks guys, and as always, we'll catch you on the
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 4: next episode.