Latest / K12ArtChat the Podcast / Episode 264 – Jennifer Licko – Building Cultural Connections

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Episode 264 – Jennifer Licko – Building Cultural Connections · K12ArtChat the Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, I'm Laura Grumler.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Matt Grumler, and today on K12 Art Chat the podcast, we'll be chatting with Jennifer Ligo about building cultural connections through tactile traditions.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Exciting chat.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know uh it's it's uh it's for a lot of people back school time right now, and we're sure that um people are you know maybe tired at the end of the day, but uh hopefully this will be a little pick-me-up for someone listening to the standard viewer from school.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you had a chance to meet our guest beforehand.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you take it?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I was really excited that um we got to meet Jennifer Leico.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Laiko, correct?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: And is that Leico?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Lico Leico, all right.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my goodness, sorry.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, the more we were talking, I just got really kind of excited, not just in the subject matter, but um also just the whole overall idea.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, first off, just thank you so much for for being here um today on our podcast, and just you know, want to tell you thank you and just have you kind of start to introduce yourself to our listeners.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's really exciting to have a platform to share something that I'm super passionate about and share it with more people.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my name is Jennifer Liko.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is a strange last name.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Most people say LICO.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's from Slovakia and it was, I think, originally Lichko.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it got one of those um Americanized uh changes over the years.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um however, um with a different culture, I grew up as a Scottish Highland dancer.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my mother was a music teacher, my aunt was a Scottish Highland dance teacher, and so I was always involved in music and dance um and a lot through the medium of Celtic music and um Scottish traditions, not only because of being a dancer and being around Scottish and Celtic um traditions all the time, but also because I grew up in North Carolina.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in North Carolina we have a huge Scottish um contingency of people, and a lot of our traditions and things that we do are just naturally things that came over from Scotland.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so as time went on, I became um a person who's far more interested in Scottish music, and um I ended up going into schools and sharing Scottish music and dance to children throughout North Carolina.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have my degree in music education, but I knew I didn't want to be um in the class all the time.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, as a performer, I wanted to be able to perform more.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so going into the schools gave me a chance to share uh what I have to share in a way that was a little bit more authentic to who I am.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I started, I am now at the point where I have a nonprofit called the Scottish Cultural Outreach Foundation.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And through that foundation, I'm able to offer a lot of free educational resources about Scotland.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'm I love it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love doing it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love finding ways that um kids can make a connection, not possibly with their own history, their own culture, their own heritage, but maybe um just realizing that other cultures exist and they can even have a connection even if it's not their own, in some way find themselves in it and and learn to have respect for it, and that opens up a whole new uh thought process for children.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a great time to reach them.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I just I'm sorry for interrupting.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just uh got really, I just was like, hey, um, you know, I I love the idea, you know, of of this, and I love the the thoughts of of bringing this cross-curricularly, you know, to out to children.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really curious if you could kind of expand a little bit more on, you know, kind of what really brought that forward for you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think because I have always been a performer, I call myself a performer with ADHD.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a performer who I who thinks they're an audience member with ADHD because I feel like I need to be hit with a lot of different things um to really um to really keep my attention.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not all at one time, but if I'm sitting, if I'm sitting in a show, um I just need the lighting to change, I need the costuming to change, I need the the sounds to change.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just need all of that for me to stay interested.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Since I felt that as an adult, I knew kids probably need that too.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I and I think it's you know, it's not just a uh there are times on stage with our performances where we could have a fiddle player um going at the same time as a Highland dancer, they're all wearing costumes and there's a story weaving in and out of it, and this and this is learning through several senses before anybody labels what this is about.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you're already reaching all of these senses, and you're not putting a label to it, you're not telling them what it is, you're allowing them to experience it and feel it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started translating that work over into what we do with our digital resources that are free, but also with our um our programs and schools.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Jennifer, I love that you started out um as a young performer and then translated that into music education and ultimately almost you know a teaching artist going out into the the schools.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And as a um fellow person of Scottish Heritage, it just makes me so excited that you're out there sharing that because in my family some of those traditions were really, really uh beautiful and essential to who we were.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I'm just thinking about Scotland and uh Matt and I actually went there for our honeymoon.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just thinking about it, there's so much uh depth to it, and I'm thinking about you know the visual components and and like you said, the music and the dance and everything else, and um patterns and landscapes and textiles.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just curious what is it, one visual element of Scotland or Scottish history that consistently sparks curiosity when you're working with people.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe that maybe people that have never had a connection to Scottish heritage.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it that's that's an easy answer for me.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even have to, I don't even have to think about that one.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely the Tartan.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the Tartan is uh people recognize it immediately, even if they don't know that um, you know, the Scottish history behind it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I believe students as adults and students as children, we're all learning the same way.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe adults are a little bit more sophisticated and try they're a little bit more sophisticated about it, and they try to think about it more than kids do.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we see the same thing at first.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: We see the colored stripes, um, we see the crossings, we see the the various colors that are used, um, we see the pattern.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's something that people can easily recognize and feel comfortable with.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it also gives us the chance to be able to undercomplicate a story.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about Scottish history, if you know a lot about Scottish history, you know that there's no real clean way to explain the tartan.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: We have a very easy answer in that every clan, and the clan is a family, every clan has one fixed ancient tartan, and that's the way it is.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that that's really not the way it is.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's more of a modernized idea, and and it's it's the truth of the modernized idea, it's the truth of today, but it's um it's very deep and significant in many, many, many other ways.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what's really fun, and we talk about the tartan as being a visual thing, um, when if we were doing a simple activity with children with the tartan, you don't want them to simply color a pattern.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, oh here's here's a tartan, let's color it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to think about the purpose of a tartan as being a way to design something you can connect an identity to.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because today we have tartans created for clans, we have tartans created for states.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: We had a tartan recently created by a company in in Scotland created for Brazil, um, called the Spirit of Brazil tartan.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there are many different tartans created in order to establish that this is a visual representation of our identity and who we are.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have children, choose some colors, the the weights of the lines, um, find where the repetition and the pattern is going to be, and then explain their choices.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like think about why did you choose blue?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why did you and and what the kids will come up with, as you well know, is far beyond what we could have ever imagined.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the spirit of Brazil tartan was created by a six-year-old.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this pattern becomes a language to be able to communicate, you know, when you have something visual like that that's that's representing and telling a story.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that's the tartan is uh is is always a a really great representation of Scotland.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ann.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm just sitting here thinking about as you're describing some of the different things, and you know, thinking about when Laura and I did go to Scotland, the amount of layers of things that there were that that just you know grab your attention, that kind of pull you in, that just make you part of that story.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's you know, it's always it's always shocking to me, especially when you think about the amount of history and the time that has gone through with places like that in England and you know I mean it's it's it is complicated and it is layered.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: There were Vikings there, there were French people there, there were the English there.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just it's it is very layered.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just you know, I'm thinking about the kind of for the art teacher who might be kind of like, okay, so how do I like go about this?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because you also brought in some ideas and Laura started mentioning them about almost like a visual thinking strategy, and you know, how just by showing them and just kind of getting their opinion or students' opinions on things or or what they're noticing about it, you know, how do how does an art teacher start to maybe go or collaborate with like a music teacher or a history teacher?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, with the trying to make and show those natural bridges that you're already starting to talk about, especially with things that are so embedded in history and and so deep, but yet trying to make it more contemporary.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that teacher collaboration is huge because it's really not about um teaching, trying to like fit something into a subject, right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: When we do that, we're all of a sudden like doing a disservice to the kids.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you think about the Tartan, let's stay on that example.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: The history teacher investigates how tartan and Highland dress changed a long time, and how cloth and the tweed communicates the region, um, communicates the the politics, the loyalty of the families.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, then you've got the music teacher who can almost add, well, there's a lot going on.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's another layer here I could talk about with the music teacher because that's my background, but you can really uh translate the tartan stripes into and the pattern there as rhythm and the repetition and the form, you can so easily dissect that as like a just a visual piece of music.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the wide stripes can be the longer sounds, and the narrow stripes can be the shorter sounds.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is something you can even have the kids identify and notice and well, what what should we make this this sound?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And should the longer sound be higher because it's a it's a blue color, and maybe the the longer sounds are going to be the red colors because they're stronger, you know, there's there's just so many things going on there that each teacher can can continue to talk about the Tartan.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, this this um, then when the students go to create their tartan, they have more of a purpose and they have more of a well-rounded idea of what what they're creating, you know, and also um let's go beyond the tartan a little bit because I don't want to exhaust the tartan.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can also, when you think about different legends from from every country has legends.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this could go into to other countries as well.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but to have like a place-based legend project where students study a specific story, and maybe um, for example, Scotland has a story at the Kelpie.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can identify how the lane the landscape contributes to that story.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Then they could compare it with Ireland's Selkie traditions, Brazil's Yara, or Uruguay's Luzmala, all these legends, not to mash the stories together and call them the same, but the students can ask what each, like what each story reveals about the landscape of that area, the danger of that area, the values of that area, the community, what the community's like.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you put all of these responses on like a map, and imagine each teacher being able to go to that map and pull out the the part of that story that that teacher understands more and can talk about.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got one, you're using one idea for every teacher to bring their expertise about, instead of trying to say, oh, we're gonna do an entire unit in Scotland, and then the kids are getting just uh representative things without understanding what that's what's that what that is opening up to.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: What is what does it mean about the place?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So a shamrock for Ireland doesn't mean anything for most kids when they see it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a it's just a symbol without any kind of meaning.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so just to to go into these cultural units, um, to have one thing that you talk about more or explore more, one thing that's representative, like the shamrock.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Don't go into the shamrock and the pot of gold and the leprechaun and the Irish dancing.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: You use one symbol and everyone kind of starts as that's the questioning part, and the kids will lead you to with their questions, they'll lead you to your conversation and to your exploring about the culture through that symbol.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I was I was thinking about even just or you know, for older students comparing poetry and thinking about Robbie Burns and like there's so many uh yeah, that just you know, well, and I would think that his his poetry has a lot of connection to music, I would think.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, I don't know much of I'm not a music expert, but I'm guessing it would.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um you do know sign, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: That we sing every year on New Year's Eve.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is Robbie Burns.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: How did I not know that?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's always my connection with the kids' own own Scottish poetry, because that's a tune that everybody worldwide sings or hears or knows because of New Year's Eve.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's that that's and that's kind of what I'm talking about here.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you when you start with something they know and they understand and then give them the platform to ask more questions about, it opens up this whole world, like, well, what does Ald mean?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: A-U-L-D?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a strange word.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, does anybody know?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take some guesses.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it opens up, and it doesn't matter if you're in the art class or the history class or in the music class, it's gonna guide a conversation, and you as the the the teacher are just are just giving that opportunity for exploration.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Jennifer, I think sometimes, well-meaning, we we try to bring cultural heritage into our classrooms through folk art or other traditions.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I'm gonna own that I've missed steps, um, especially as a younger teacher.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just curious how we can support uh teachers and and guide our students to respect cultural roots while learning to express their own creative voice.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that's a hard one, and it also does make a difference on what type of culture you're representing or talking about, because they're it um you have you do have to be careful.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but I think at the end of the day, it doesn't mean we should step away from it and not teach it because we don't know enough about it, we're not an expert.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think kids expect us to be as experts, I think they expect us to just um show them how to learn.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and so when when I'm with students, I think about um sometimes they ask me questions and I don't know the answer.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is an exploration, let's figure it out together.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do think that ultimately our biggest jobs as educators, our biggest job is to teach children how to teach themselves and how to explore.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but oh but to go back to um how to approach another culture.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say that one of the common things, and I mentioned this kind of earlier, is just kind of saying, oh, today we're gonna teach about a Celtic knot.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a Celtic knot.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's color it, you know, or let's let's replicate it, let's redraw it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't think that that they've necessarily learned anything from that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that, and again, I don't think that that means, oh, well, I don't, I don't know what else to do, so I'm just not gonna do it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just avoid it altogether.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're all I mean, we're all working with limited time and and teaching outside of your own heritage can be very intimidating.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think the best approach is to slow down the activity long enough to add a source, a place, a purpose.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the Celtic knot.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to say, here's the Celtic knot.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You say, show it.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Who who made this?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know where it was used and when?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what it was used for?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it told people a story?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think it communicated to people?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it could be a part of a ceremony?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that it was a part of everyday life?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think people use this Celtic knot?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this invites the conversation about the culture, and you'll hear a lot of different ideas.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, it's very important to be prepared with some things in case their ideas are completely off.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when they start to respond to the underlying artistic idea of that Celtic knot, rather than just reproducing what they think is an authentic object, um, I think that's a better learning experience.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: The assignment here is not to make a clan tartan, it's to use repeated color and line to communicate an identity that's yours to represent.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when students are explaining their choices.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's their choice, it's not you teaching them, it's their choice to label the work with their own feelings and their own communication.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And this preserves that creative freedom that you need to teach them, especially as an art teacher.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but it also teaches a respect for why that particular style of art came into play.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So they got to experience it, understand why people would do that type of art, and and they have a story around it, and then they get to create their own matching the same reason that that piece of art was originally created.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they feel it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: So well said.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do tend to ramble on a bit.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I no, no, no.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no, it's not.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was smart.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't rambling.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't about recreating the object.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's that object belongs to that culture.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's about why, what was at the root of and you know, how can we consider making our own something that that you know is is similarly near and dear to us, you know.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that that's that's key.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a I mentioned earlier that I could talk more about the tartan with music.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a a very special type of music that was um, it's a traditional type of music from Scotland, from the outer Hebrides, the islands and the western part of Scotland, where Scots Gallic is the native language.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a process, a work process.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the work process is called walking, which is W-A-U-L-K-I-N-G.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And walking the cloth is the preparation of the tweed.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it and the kids love to hear about this because you had to soak the the wool in stale urine because that actually helped soften the cloth and preserve the dyes.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you can imagine the smell and how terrible.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And once we get past that, we get to talk about um the process that these women would go through.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: They had to smell that, and they it was an all-day process of sitting at a table and they would sing songs called walking songs, and they would beep the cloth into the table until this cloth was ready to be used.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're learning science, they're learning history, they're learning art, they're learning so many, they're learning about the community who had to do this in order to have the cloth that they needed to have clothing and blankets, and um, and a time when we didn't just have a textile factory make these things.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, with this learning, this is what actually one of the lessons that I have in Scotland in the class.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and with this learning, there's an opportunity for the students to compose their own song.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, they're not going to be Scots-Gaelic singers and learn, so they don't learn a Scots-Gaelic song.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: They compose their own song, and in reality, they learned that the walking songs were just improvisational songs that were sung by these women all day long to keep the beat at the same time and to tell stories.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: They these weren't songs that were that were written for any other reason but to pass the time and share the gossip of the day.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so when they realize that they get to make up their own song, do their own work process, and that's something they're not gonna forget.
• 25:39
  unknown: Terrific.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm sitting here thinking, you know, as a as an educator who's been teaching a while, you kind of you kind of start to get a little burnt out, especially by, you know, the confines of of curriculum.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm just kind of curious what you would kind of say that you maybe haven't said already, but just kind of um, you know, what I guess what could you want me help?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, kind of, but I'm just just what would you say to encourage to get out there and do some heritage-based unit planning, or um, you know, do some research for their own professional renewal, or you know, where where could they go to learn more about heritage-based um curriculum?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Or obviously you have some resources, it's not just a curriculum, but you know, how can they get excited about it?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's careful to to not suggest that you know, one beautiful cultural unit will fix things.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think we we all know that, especially in the teaching model.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: We think we know there is no one magic, one magic thing.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: As I as I mentioned earlier, my mother was an elementary school music teacher, and she still to this day talks about certain units that she would do that she just loved.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Every single year, she couldn't wait to pull out this unit, and it changed from time to time, but it was one of her favorites.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and that energy about teaching something and teaching it in a way, and you know yourself when you have a successful lesson, uh it's one you do every single year, and you are excited about it because you know it's gonna work, and and that feels good.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we become teachers and because we want to be able to share and we want to see the kids excited and learning.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I but I do think that heritage-based learning can can reconnect teachers with that same curiosity that brought us into education.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that we have so many things that we have to teach, but to find that way to teach it in a way that's a little bit um interesting for us too, is is very exciting.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And with culture comes a lot of fun things.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: It really can you can look at all the positives when it comes to culture of different countries.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the teacher gets to become a learner again, to encounter a new story, new material, um, some artistic piece that maybe they didn't know existed before, and they get to explore it alongside of the students.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the the curiosity part about being a teacher uh can be really exciting when doing a cultural heritage unit.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And to find resources, especially today, it's it's it's so much easier.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: We have access to the world.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've lived in Brazil for quite a while, and I've been very fortunate to meet a lot of other expats.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, I've had conversations with other mothers from from India, from Japan, from Korea, and Colombia.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm and I'm just thinking of my friends, we've had all these conversations a lot about education, and I've interviewed a lot of them to get more authentic songs.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I start with if someone tells me a story about a song they remember or something they do in their their own home country, I always inquire more and I say, I want to hear more.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more, because it's so exciting to learn about it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I know that I could turn that into a resource that came directly from somebody who lived it, and that's fun.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we all have friends or friends of a friend that has some kind of cultural authentic story to share that can also be explored in the classroom.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that to me, that's exciting.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I have a question that I'm gonna ask, but I know that Laura has a follow-up question.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Normally it's our last question, but today it's our second to last question.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so as we you know, as we start to wrap up our our podcast, just wanting to know if you have any um advice or any additional information or something you'd like to just mention to our listeners, you know, as we kind of start to come to an end, as Laura then asked another question later.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would just go back to, you know, whatever cultural symbol you start with, it's it really is a doorway.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the destination, but it is the doorway.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the shamrock is not the destination, in other words.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we can absolutely begin with the shamrock, um, the castle, the legend.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And those are so powerful and so fun.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: But our responsibility is to help students walk through the doorway, meet the people, get to know the place, get to know the history and the changing meaning um and the changing meaning of that symbol throughout the way.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: That the symbol is really just the doorway, and they're fun.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I think that's something that's really important for a lot of teachers to to be comfortable knowing that they don't have to be an expert on the shamrock.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they just need to be curious and use trustworthy sources and um and then invite the students to to go along that journey with him.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've already learned as a as a fellow person of Scottish Heritage, I feel like I've learned a few things from you today about my own heritage, which I I love.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I am curious if you have one favorite thing that you love to teach students or teachers uh related to Scottish heritage.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is hard.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is the hardest question there.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like saying, what is your favorite animal?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're all great.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I well, I already mentioned the walking songs and the walking tradition, and that really I have to say that's my favorite lesson.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much fun.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I just really enjoy it and I see the kids learn and grow from it and have some aha moments, and that's what's really fun.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other, I would say the other um another part of any culture that I love to teach um are the dances because they also are full of so much history, so much meaning, so much community context in how these dances got started and why they were important.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just so good for these little bodies to be moving.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important, and it's it's just them being uh being alive.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so important today.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's so important.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to get, especially I I kind of have a I mean, all kids love to get up and dance, but the second and third graders, they just when I teach second and third graders, I always start with dancing because it's they're always easy to learn and and fun to do.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another thing.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I do have all of um, I have I I can't even tell you a number of how many lesson plans and cultural resources I have for free at Scotlandintheclass.com.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have anything you could possibly imagine.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody even emailed me with a question or has said, I need more information about this, I'm own it because it is my passion.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also do have resources at theculturalclassroom.com and those go into other uh cultures, but only uh from places that I have lived and I've uh really gotten to understand the community.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly wouldn't put anything out there that I don't know firsthand.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do have quite a bit of information in the cultural classroom also.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I really appreciate you sharing that.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh all your resources will be linked to the podcast, and so people can get them through that from you know going to davisart.com.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it sounds like you'd be willing to answer their questions if they maybe email you from your website.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that too.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, because I live for this stuff, I really love it.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jennifer, it it's just been a joy to talk to you.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell how passionate you are and how um excited you are to share all of this.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like your life's work, and I really appreciate you sharing it with all of our listeners.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Really do.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for having me.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all are so easy and fun to talk to, and it's it's enjoyable.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure how you came across her, but great job.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I gotta big thanks to our our friends at Davis for at least connecting us.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: But then the more and more I was talking with her, I was like, yeah, this is gonna be an another good conversation.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love it that she's got so many free resources to share with everybody and um so passionate, but I love that there's lesson plans that people can use and all of that.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um on that note, Matt, where would people find the lesson plans?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, as always, looking at davisart.com underneath free resources, you'll find our podcast along with each and every episode, and each episode has its own resources that were, you know, Jennifer mentioned uh several of them during the podcast, but you can find them right there along with each episode.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: If someone wanted to reach out to us, you know, say send us an email, like they know somebody like Jennifer, and they're like, hey, I think they would be a really good guest for you to have on the podcast.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: How can they send us a note?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first off, that would be uh so kind of them to do that because we are always looking for people and always want to know and connect with more.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, if you wanted to send us an email, you could reach us at the creativity at gmail.com or just uh connect with us on Instagram and just kind of leave us a message and be like, hey, check out these people, or hey, let's talk about this at creativity.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the last thing I would ask is if uh if you listen to this podcast, uh maybe on your commute, uh wherever you listen to the podcast, Spotify, Amazon, whatever it is, um, if you could rate and review the podcast uh and subscribe.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: We try to have a new episode every Thursday.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Although we are working uh professionals, so we do this as a side thing to support other art educators.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we do our best to get one out every Thursday.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, it'll help us keep it going.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we just really appreciate all of you and we wish you a creative week ahead.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.