Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 17-20) (9/27/26)

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Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 17-20) (9/27/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: back in to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: so what's your understanding of how Epstein died? Thomas, it's
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: been two years he died from hanging. Question, so do
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you believe he died from hanging? Do you believe he
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: died from someone trying to murder or someone hurting him?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Do you believe that he died from a medical response? Thomas,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not a medical professional, I don't know. I've seen
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: so many things, and I'm faced with so many things.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: They just said that he died from a hanging. Question,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: and being the first responder to the person in there,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: do you believe that is how he died now? Because
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you said again previously when I was asking you, I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: don't know if he was alive or dead. Do you
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: believe he died from hanging? Thomas, I never believe he died.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I don't believe the conspiracy that somebody snuck into the jail. catapulted. Mitchell,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: just answer the questions. Thomas, yes or no? Thomas, oh no,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I mean yes. I believe he died from hanging. Question,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: do you believe he died from hanging? Alright. And do
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you believe that Epstein took his own life? Thomas, yes. Question,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: did anyone else take Epstein's life? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Did anyone assist Epstein in taking his life? Thomas, uh, no. Question,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Did Noel take Epstein's life? Thomas, no. Question. These are
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: questions that we just have to ask because you guys
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: were the first to be there and you guys were
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the ones on duty. Thomas, I'm here with you. Question.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Did Noel assist Epstein in taking his life? Thomas, no. Question.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Did you assist Epstein with taking his life? Thomas, no. Question.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Did you take Epstein's life? Thomas, no. Question. Did you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: have any part in Epstein's death? Thomas, no. Question. Prior
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: to Epstein dying, did you have any communication, verbal, electronic,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: handwritten or otherwise with anyone, BOP staff members or otherwise? Civilians, inmates,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: anybody about the safety and well-being of Epstein? Thomas, no. Question.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Prior to Epstein dying, did you have any communication, verbal, electronic,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: handwritten or otherwise with anyone, BOP staff members or otherwise?
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: So civilians, inmates, anybody about the death of Epstein or
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: taking Epstein's life? Thomas, no. Question, did anyone ever offer
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you anything, such as something of value or favors, with
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: regard to harming Epstein or taking his life? Thomas, no. Question,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: did anyone ever threaten you in exchange for harming Epstein
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: or taking Epstein's life? Thomas, no. Question, were any of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: your family members? Thomas, no, absolutely not. Question, so now
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we're getting more back into the administrative stuff. Why wasn't
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Epstein in his assigned cell on August 10th, 2019? Thomas,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, are cell rotations, do they occur
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: with inmates in the SHU? That you have to move
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: them every certain amount of days? Thomas, yeah. Question, all right,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: who's responsible? Thomas, that's the SHU lieutenant. Question, that falls
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: on the SHU lieutenant? Thomas, yeah, from the SHU lieutenant.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: When it falls on the SHU lieutenant to pass down
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to the staff members when they're going to do cell
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: rotations or anything like that? Question, all right. Thomas, it's
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: something that's tracked. If I'm not mistaken, it might be
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: tracked on the computer. I don't know. Question, in the computer?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Who's responsible for making that change in the computer? Thomas,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, did you know that Epstein was
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: not in his assigned cell? Thomas, no. Question, so this
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: is the first time that you're hearing that? Thomas, yes. Question,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: all right. Is that something that you guys were supposed
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: to monitor or do when you're in the shoe during
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: your assignment? Are you supposed to make sure that inmates
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: are in their assigned cells? Thomas, when I come in
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: at 12, that's all taken care of. You don't move
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: anybody at 12 midnight. Question, yeah. I just didn't know
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: if that's something that you guys are supposed to like
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: pay attention to. Like, all right, this guy is supposed
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: to be in this cell. This guy is supposed to
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: be in that cell. Thomas, it's 70 something inmates or something.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: If 15 inmates come down on short staff and they
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: got to move, maybe all 15 won't get done. So
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: maybe somebody is in a 21 day rotation. They're probably
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: laid over for like five or whatever couple days. But
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know as far as you're going by cell
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: rotation and his cell rotation is up 21 days and
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: he hasn't moved there and he was in the wrong cell.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know. Question. OK, Thomas,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: like I said, I'm not in custody. I wouldn't deal
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: with that. Question, okay, so I'm assuming it's the officers
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: who actually move them physically to a different cell. Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: who goes into the system and changes it in the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: BOP database? Would that be the officers? Thomas, officers or
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: operation or the shoe lieutenant? Question, okay, but that's nothing
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that's done at 12 a.m. Thomas, that's nothing that's done
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: at 12 a.m. No, it's not. Question, all right, do
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you know why pill bottles were found within Epstein's cell? Thomas, no,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I do not. Question, are inmates allowed to have medication
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: within their cells? Thomas, I'm sure some are allowed, yeah. Question,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: they're allowed? Thomas, I'm sure that some are allowed medication.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what medication they need or anything like that. Question,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: do you ever recall seeing a picture I'm showing you
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: with medication that was in Epstein's cell? Do you recall
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: seeing this? Thomas, no. Question, does that look like something
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that he would have been authorized to have? With that
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: much medication? Thomas, I don't know what they are. Question,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they're authorized and what they're not authorized. Question, okay,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: just because I showed it to you, can you mind
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: just initialing and dating it? Thomas, I'm sorry, I keep
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: closing this. Question, no worries. And so you don't know
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: anything about like policies are related to what they're authorized
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: or not authorized? Thomas, no. Question, would that be up
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to like medical? Thomas, medical, yeah. Question, okay, are you
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: familiar just in general, non-medical related? What inmates are authorized
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and not authorized? Thomas, no, I'm not. Question, you're not
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: even familiar? Thomas, mm-hmm. Question, with what they can and
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: can't have in their cells? Thomas, no, I'm not, no.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: All right, hold on, I have to interject. How are
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: you a prison guard and you don't know what people
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: are allowed to have or not have in their cells? Question,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: do you know if the shoe is any different than
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the rest of the institution of what inmates can and
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: cannot have in their cell? Thomas, yes, absolutely. I'm sure
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: it's different. I don't know though, because I'm sure it's
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: different because that's the 23 on one. So I'm sure
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: it's different from a regular housing unit. On there, it'll
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: walk around. Question, what's 23 on one now? Thomas, they're
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: locked down 23 hours a day. And then one hour
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: is for rec. Question, But as far as what they're
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: allowed to have in their cells, Thomas, no, I don't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: know the book version of what they're allowed and what
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: they're not allowed. Question, so do you know of other
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: inmates are allowed to have medication in their cells at
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: this time? Thomas, I don't know. Question, you don't know.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: How many changes of clothings and linens are allowed in
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: an inmate's cell within the shoe? Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: you don't know. Thomas, that's something that would be done
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: prior to my shift. Question, sure. So does this look
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: like an exorbitant amount of clothing and linens that are
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: in Mr. Epstein's cell in that picture. Thomas, it looks
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: like a lot, but that could have just been, I
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: don't know what's from the previous inmate that's left over
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that they didn't take his stuff. Like again, I don't know.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: The inmate that left, they didn't take his linen out
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: or not. And you can't tell from these pictures, which
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: is ripped up and which is ripped up and which
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: is not. Most inmates will get a bed sheet, rip
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it up and put it up as all types of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: stuff that goes on. But I don't know if that's
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: something doing or not. It has to be broken down to,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: all right, this is seven sheets. And if I have
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: seven sheets or something like that, then yes, that's excessive.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But other than that, I don't know that they're supposed
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to have within. What they're not supposed to have, one sheet,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. Question, is it supposed to be
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: a one-for-one exchange? Thomas, yeah, it's one-for-one. Question, so they're
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: only technically supposed to have one. Thomas, it's two sheets,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: one blanket, I think. or one blanket, one sheet, and
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: one towel and one washcloth. Question, okay, Thomas, and I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: can't remember the full thing. Question, and do you, Thomas
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: cuts him off, that's not something that happens on morning watch.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: That's something that happens prior to the morning watch when
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I stayed there from 12 to 1. Question, okay, Thomas,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that's not something I have 12 to 1. You don't
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: take the inmates out. And I don't know. And you
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: don't give them anything unless somebody's coming in off the street.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: It's already pre-bed, was made, that you're giving to them
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to put this over there. And usually they try to
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: put them on G-tier, single cell, until they can find
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: out what their affiliation is or anything like that. Redacted, okay.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: But to you though, if there's one person in that cell,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: does that look like it's too much linen and too
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: much clothing? Thomas, like again, I can't tell what's ripped
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: up and what's not ripped up. Question, okay, do you
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: mind just initialing and dating these? Thomas, question, I've just
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: got a question by somebody else now. This is somebody
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: else interjecting. Did the cell look like that when you
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: walked in? Thomas, I don't remember the clothes and stuff
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: being on the floor. I don't remember that much linen
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: being on the floor. honestly I couldn't tell you what's
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: there I just remember him hanging on his side Mitchell
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: breaks already question push pause alright we're being asked to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: take a break so they take their break and then
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: they come back Thomas okay Question, and we're showing you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the pictures. Thomas, absolutely. Question, did you provide Epstein with
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: additional clothing or linens? Thomas, no. Question, ever? Thomas, no. Question,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is that anything that you would typically happen between the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: hours that you work? Thomas, no. Question, 12 to 8 a.m.? Thomas, no. Question, okay,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: is providing inmates with extra clothing and linens a security risk? Thomas,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it's a security
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: risk or anything. Like that, because I don't know. Question. Okay. Question.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: We touched on this, but when inmates are provided linens,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: is it supposed to be a one-for-one exchange? Thomas. Yeah. Question.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: All right. And is that typically what they are utilizing
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: in order to do things like hang themselves? Thomas. I
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: don't know. I really don't know. What's the typical thing? Question.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: That's what they used in this case, though, it appears. Thomas. Yeah,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that's what it appears in this case. You see the
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: sheet or a shirt. I don't know what it is. Question. Okay.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: And somebody on suicide watch. Do you think it's abnormal? Again,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you didn't provide the linens, but do you think it's abnormal?
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: If he had extra linens, if he was someone that
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was just on suicide watch Thomas, it's not abnormal for
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: someone to have extra linen question. It's not Thomas question.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: So if that's supposed to be a one for one exchange,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: is that like a constant problem? Then at the MCC, Thomas,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: in a perfect world, in a perfect world, it couldn't be,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: but like I said, I'm not custody. I'm not always
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: up here like that. And when, as you can see,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: all the linen and that stuff is already done. Question, okay,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and again, we talked about this briefly, but what material
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: was used to take Epstein's life in August of 2019? Thomas,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, a sheet or a shirt.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what it was. Question, this orange cotton,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: which could be either, Thomas, a sheet or a shirt, Question,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a sheet or a shirt? Okay. Question, does this appear
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to be what it was that was removed from Mr. Epstein? Thomas,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it appears to be, yes. Question, okay, can you just
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: walk me through? Like, this thing specifically looks like it's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: still intact. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, did you have to rip
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it off or slide it over his head? Thomas, what
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? That was still intact, yeah. I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: took it off his head. I guess I took it
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: off his head. I don't remember I did, but I
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: guess I took it off his head. But like I said,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: when I ripped it, it was tied to the other
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: portion of it. That's what I meant when I said
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I ripped it off. Like just when I just pulled
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: it off. Question, okay, so maybe it could have also
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: been possible that this was part. That's what was actually connected.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: This is the part that was possibly ripped. Thomas just
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: pushed off. Yeah, like that. It probably just slipped through
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be through that. Question, okay,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: but you said you ripped it off. Thomas, yeah, ripped
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it off. I just ripped it from the piece that's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: still dangling. Question, you don't recall actually sliding it? Thomas,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. If it's still intact, maybe I did. Question,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and again, I don't know that that was what was
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: actually around his neck. Thomas, I don't know. Question, but
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: that does appear to be probably what was around his neck. Thomas, okay. Question,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: is that correct? Thomas, I don't know. Question, you're not
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: exactly sure? Thomas, I'm not exactly sure. Question, but does
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: this look like something? Like you recall when you took
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it off his head? Mr. Thomas, yeah. Question, all right,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: just because I showed it, you want to just initial
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and date? All right, folks, we're going to wrap up
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: right here. And in the next episode, dealing with the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: topic we're going to pick up where we left off.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive right back in to the Michael
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Thomas deposition with the OIG inspectors. Question. So we have
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: a few follow-up questions and it's going to be by
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: multiple different people. Unfortunately, their names are redacted. Question. With
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: regard to when you conducted the indiscernible Thomas. No problem. Question.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Agent just mentioned it too. So you walked in. Is
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Epstein to your right? Or your left? Thomas, my right. Question, okay.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And when you see him, right? Is he hanging? Thomas, yeah. Question.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: And where was, in comparison to this, in comparison to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: this picture, where about was his head? Thomas, maybe a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: little bit below the circle. Maybe right here, I guess.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly, or maybe a little bit below
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that circle. Question. And his whole body on the floor?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Was his butt on the floor? Thomas, no. Question. What
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: part of his body was on the floor? Thomas, I
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: don't recall what was on the floor. I don't think
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: anything was on the floor. I don't really remember. Question,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: was his legs on the floor? Feet on the floor? Thomas, well,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say his feet was on the floor. Question,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you would assume because it doesn't look up that high. Thomas, yeah,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't have the, yeah. Question, so you think
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: his feet were on the floor? Thomas, I really don't
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: remember exactly, but I mean, I would assume his feet
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: was on the floor. Question, Now, see, there's a knot
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: on the noose right here. What part of the neck
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: was that knot on? Like, when you see it, did
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you try to loosen it or try to take it off?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: What part of the neck was that on? Do you
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: recall at all? Thomas, I really don't. I really don't. Question,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: when you pulled it, it looks like there's a portion
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: left back on here. Was that attached to this? Thomas,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: like I said, he said he was a portion of that.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Like I said, when I remember ripping all that down,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If I just, if it slipped through
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: or whatever, maybe the case. I just remember going like
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: this and he going to the ground. And then we
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: started doing chest compressions. Question. And he came off easily. Thomas. Yes,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he came off easily. It didn't come off too hard. Question.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And you don't recall trying to get cut off. Thomas.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I don't recall taking the noose off. I really don't.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I don't recall taking that thing off from around his neck. Question. Question.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Do you remember if the linen ripped so it separated
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: from this? Or if this is possibly the same thing
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: as that? Do you recall when it ripped? Do you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: remember if it like tore and broke and came into
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: two separate pieces? Thomas, I don't. Question, no. Thomas, I
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: don't remember. Question, so when you looked into his cell,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: were the lights on or off? Question, I want to
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: say the light was on. I think the light was on. Question, okay,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: so you knocked on the cell and he didn't answer.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So you had to open it? Thomas, yeah. Question, do
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you recall actually opening, turning the key to open the cell?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Or was the cell already open? Thomas nodded the cell.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I had to open the cell. Question, okay, you walked in.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You saw this. Now I want to. In this picture,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I saw something. This picture right here. The one you initialed.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: You see the mattress on the floor? Thomas, okay. Question,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: was that on the floor when you walked in? Thomas,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't know. Question. Because he would
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have been technically, he would have been just laying here, right? Thomas. Yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: he's off to the side. Yeah, you can't see. You
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: can't see his right right here, but he's off to
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the side. Question. And he gets cut off by Thomas
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: because there's a lip like you said, there's a lip
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: right here is covering that side of the wall. Question.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And this mattress, where does it belong? Up here on top. Thomas. Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: If that's one on the floor, yeah, that belongs on top. Question. Question.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And you don't recall all of this laying around or anything? Thomas, no,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I don't. No, I don't. Question, we're just trying to
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: get an idea. Was this LMS or anything like that? Thomas,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: it could be a totally different thing because I've seen
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: inmates look like that and their mattress on the floor.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Some inmates sleep on the floor just because it's a
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: bunk bed. They don't have to sleep on the top.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Some people just sleep on the floor. And then I mean,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying because all that stuff was up top there.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe he just slept on the floor. I don't know. Question, okay.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: All right, now we're going back to the linens. Thomas, uh-huh. Question,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: was Epstein given special privileges to have extra clothing or linens? Thomas,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, you're not sure. If he was,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: what shift would typically take care of that? Thomas, it
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: could be day watch or evening watch. Question, so either
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: one of those two other shifts? Thomas, yeah. Question, do
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you know if anything was in Epstein's cell? that should
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: not have been there? Thomas, I don't know. Question, can
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about cell searches and
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: how they work in the shoe? Thomas, they usually conduct
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: it on day shift because that's when most people are
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: around just in case you have an uncooperative inmate. And
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you check the cell for contraband. Contraband can be anywhere
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: from a leftover tray being in there to too much paper.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Inmates who get mail, too many papers left in there,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: which is called nuisance trash. Question, okay. Thomas, but it
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: all depends on anybody else who is conducting it. Question,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and this isn't regarding your specific shift, I mean it
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: discussed your shift, but for cell searches it shows it's
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the MCC, New York Special Post Order Special Housing Unit.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: For here it says, all SHU staff are expected to
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: conduct searches of the special housing unit. The morning watch
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: officer will conduct searches of the common areas and document
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: their findings in the search section of the Truescape page.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: The day watch officers will conduct a search of every
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: inmate cell who attends recreation. The evening watch officer will
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: conduct a minimum of five cell searches during their shift.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: The entire special housing unit will be searched each and
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: every week. Do you know, is that your understanding of
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: what the policy is? Thomas, yeah. Question, do you know
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: if the other, if MCC was following this policy? The
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: officers that were assigned, were they actually conducting the searches? Thomas,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Question,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: do you have any knowledge of anybody conducting cell searches
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: in the SHU? Thomas, I'm sure that they do. Like
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm not custody up there during the day
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: and during the evening. So I don't know what their,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: what the time and no specific time when those have
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to be done. So I don't know. Question, all right.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And again, just because I showed it to you, do
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you mind just initialing page five of 14 on the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: special post orders from the SHU? Do you know of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: any other interactions that Epstein had with other inmates? Thomas, no. Question.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: And you said the last time that you interacted with
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Epstein was when you fed him in the morning? Yeah. Thomas, yes. Question.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And I apologize now it was so many hours ago.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: What was his state of mind at the time? Could
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: you tell? Thomas, no. Question. Did he seem unusual? Thomas, no. Question, no. Thomas, no. Question.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Did it all strike you that maybe he was getting
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: ready to kill himself or anything? Thomas, no. Question, in distress? No.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Did he complain about anything? Thomas, no. Question, did you
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: talk with him at all? Thomas, no. Question, you didn't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: say good morning or anything? Thomas, if I did, I
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: don't remember. If I did, here's your tray. Question, do
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: you know any of the threats that were made? To Epstein? Thomas, no. Question,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: do you know why Epstein was in prison? Thomas, now
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I do, yes. Question, did you at the time? Thomas,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I really didn't know who Epstein was. Question, you didn't? Thomas,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: or the stipulation behind everything behind him, no. Question, all right,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: so at the time, did you have any specific feelings
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: in regard to Epstein? Thomas, no. Question, no. Did you
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: speak about Epstein with other inmates? Thomas, no. Question, When
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: the medical emergency was discovered, do you believe that you
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and Noel acted appropriately per BOP policy? Thomas, yes. Question,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: were you and Noel supposed to take immediate action or
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: should you have waited for responding staff? Thomas, I think
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to take immediate action. Question, okay, did BOP
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: policy say that you should have called a lieutenant and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: wait for their arrival prior to entering Epstein's cell? Thomas,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the policy says. Imagine that's your comment. Bro,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: you're a corrections officer here. How don't you know the policy? Question.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: So have you ever been taught like it could be
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a ruse? And if you go in there by yourself
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: without responding staff, they could then overtake you and potentially
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: have you as a hostage. Thomas. Yeah, I've heard that.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I've heard that before, but then I've always heard it
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: has to be two staff members to one inmate. Question. Okay.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Thomas and me and Noel was there. So Question, okay,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: so you believe because Noel was there, you followed the policy? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not worried about. Question, so you said that after
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the medical emergency, you actually went down with him to
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the second floor. Did anything happen with Epstein's body on
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the way? Did you guys like drop the stretcher or Thomas? No. Question,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: he remained, his body getting maintained. What about when you
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: were getting him onto the stretcher? Did he do a
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: smooth transition from the floor? Up to the stretcher? Thomas,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: as far as I remember, I don't really recall. Question,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you don't remember. Thomas, I don't think it was any different. Question,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: him dropping or landing or anything like that. Thomas, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: don't remember any of that. Question, what about when he
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: was going from the stretcher to whatever they put him in?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: When they got to the second floor. Thomas, yeah, once
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: we got him to the second floor, he got into
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the room. I was hands off though. There were so
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: many other people around. I wasn't part of that. Question,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and did you leave at the time, leave the room? Thomas, yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I left the room at that time. Question, where did
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you go? And what did you do? Thomas, I don't
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: remember exactly where I went. I think I went to
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: my office and then I stepped outside. Question, okay, did
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: any supervisor or staff talk to you about the incident? Thomas, no. Question,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: did you make any statements to anyone? Thomas, no. Question,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: did you do or sign any paperwork? Thomas, no. Question,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: what time did your shift end? Thomas, right after the incident. Question, okay,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: what time did you depart the MCC? Thomas, maybe about 9.30ish. Question,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: all right, so it happened at like 6.33. But you
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: did stay until, Thomas, no, I stayed until because 8,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: let's say about 8, something because when I was trying
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to leave and go home, I kept getting calls, of course,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: from everybody. Then the warden called me and told me
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: he was just concerned about me because of what I've seen,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and me being traumatized. And so he sent somebody to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: talk to me, and they met me further down from
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the thing to come and talk to me. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: somebody from the crisis support team. Question, okay. Alright folks,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here, and in the
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic we're going to pick
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of of
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: up where we left off with the Michael Thomas interview
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: with the OIG inspectors. Question, all right, so probably around
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: eight-ish is when you're thinking. Thomas, yeah, about eight-ish or so. Question, okay,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: did you handle or touch any of Epstein's files or paperwork? Thomas, no.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Question during your shift, would you ever handle any files? Thomas, no,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: they're in sleeping. No, we don't touch any of those. Thomas,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you're talking about any files inside a cell? Question, no,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the files that you guys have that you maintain for
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the inmates. Thomas, no, I didn't touch any of those things. Question,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I think they're called 292s or something. Thomas, oh yeah, no,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't touch any of those things. Question, and did
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you ever touch them during your shift? Thomas, during a shift, no. Question, no. Thomas, well,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: excuse me, let me change that. After you finish feeding,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: you mark that you fed everybody, but that's not a
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: paperwork thing. I think if I'm not mistaken, that's done
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: on the computer. Question, okay, so that's not something you do?
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: He gets cut off. By Thomas, yeah. Continues the question,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: like on August 9th, you wouldn't have gone into Epstein's file? Thomas, no. Question,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: have you ever seen Epstein's file? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know anybody? that did potentially remove files from
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Epstein's files? Thomas, no. Question, do you know that anybody
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that went back into the shoe and removed any, like,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: tags or documents or... Thomas, I was gone. I don't know. Question, okay,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: but did you remove anything from the office? Thomas, I
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: didn't remove anything, no. Question, no. Another question after that,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: can I ask, do you know where the file is kept? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And so you never removed or destroyed any of Epstein's paperwork? Thomas, no,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I did not. Question. And you never removed or destroyed
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: any signs related to Epstein? Thomas, no, I did not. Question.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: That were up in the shoe? Thomas, no, I did not. Question.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Did you ever access any BOP database, such as BOPware, Sentry, TrueView,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: after Epstein was discovered on August 10th? Thomas, no. I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: haven't been back to that institution. No. Question. No. And
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: you can only access that from the institution. Thomas. Exactly. Question.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Did you ever discuss anyone altering any documents? Thomas. No,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I did not. Question. Removing any documents? Thomas. No, I
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: did not. Question. Accessing any BOP database? Thomas. No, I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: did not. Question. Did anyone tell you that they destroyed anything? Thomas. No,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: they did not. Question. Moved anything? Thomas. No, sir. Question.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: or access to any database? Thomas, no sir. Question, have
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: you reported for any shifts following August 10th, 2019? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Were you placed on administrative leave? Thomas, yes. Question, by whom? Thomas,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: whoever is in charge. I can't remember what my letter says.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: It's the warden, I guess. Question, so they didn't speak
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: with you directly? Thomas, no. I got a letter in
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the mail. Question, and that's how they informed you? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: what did the letter say? Thomas, I'm placed on administrative
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: leave pretty much. Question, oh, Thomas and the whole bunch
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: of pending something. I can't remember the exact lettering, wording,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: what they said. Question, okay, and is that what you
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: remain on now? Administrative leave? Thomas, um, no, I'm on.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: The question, indefinite suspension? Thomas, yeah. Question, did you communicate
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: with Noel after Epstein's body was discovered? Thomas, nope. Question,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: so you have not communicated with her since. Thomas. Besides
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: one time, we had to sit down and talk after
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the case was over. Well, after the thing, we just
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: had a union meeting. That was it. Question. Okay. Thomas.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: And she did come there. That type of thing. But
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: we didn't discuss the case. Question. And you didn't discuss
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the case? Thomas. No, we did not. Question, okay, so
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: who from MCC have you communicated with regarding Epstein's indictment
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: or incident, I mean, on August 10th? Thomas, nobody. Question,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: no one. Thomas, nobody. Question, I'm assuming aside from your
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: union representative. Thomas, well, I just actually just started to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: him more often, but yeah. Question, okay, so he would
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: be the only one? Thomas, yeah, him, the union president. Question, okay,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: can 10, and this is something that I just thought of,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: when you just took a break. Something that I realized
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask. Can 10 South obtain access to the shoe? Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and can you do that without telling anyone allowing them
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: to enter? Thomas, no. You're talking about from the outside? No. Thomas,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: they have to come through the shoe to get to
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: 10 South. There's no other way from anybody from the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: outside or from any other part of the institution to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: get to the shoe besides from the outer door. Well,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: what about the intake system? This is me asking the question,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, the HVAC system. Could someone crawl through there?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I have questions though. Question. Okay. So
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: could have, could have anyone from 10 South access the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: shoe without you or Noel being Thomas? No question. And
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: can you just show who was in 10 South when
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you were there? Can you show me on the daily
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: assignment roster? So who would have been in 10 South
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: when you guys were there? Thomas, redacted. Question. And do
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you remember if redacted visited the shoe at any time? Thomas,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. Question. Would they have been the closest
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: unit to you though? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay. But you
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: don't recall. Thomas, I don't recall. Question, okay. And for
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: feeding or any counts or anything like that, did you
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: guys or would you typically interact? Thomas, yeah. Well, if
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: they just for the count to help them count. Question, okay.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Would he personally? What time would he be on to?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Same shift as you? Until 8 a.m.? Thomas, yeah, same shift. Question,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: would he possibly be the person that showed up at 5.30 a.m.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in the shoe? Thomas, no, because he was on for
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the morning watch. If he was on there from 12 a.m.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to 8 a.m. Question, all right, but you don't recall. Thomas,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: somebody coming in at 5.30? Question, who showed up at 5.30 a.m.? Thomas, no,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I don't recall anybody coming in. At 5.30 a.m. Question. Okay.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: So 4 a.m. Was Lieutenant redacted. But you don't remember
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: anybody at 5.30 a.m. Thomas. No. I don't remember anybody
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: at 5.30 a.m. Question. All right. But there is no.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: You were there. And there is no way that anyone
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: could have accessed the shoe. From inside. Noel. Or are
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you allowing them to get in? Thomas. To allow them
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: to get in. Yeah. Question. Okay. And you said Epstein
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: cell was locked. When you went in there. And. When
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you did find him and ripped the thing off, did
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: you notice that his body was either cold or warm? Thomas,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't notice. Question, you didn't notice that? Thomas, no. Question,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: is there anything that I'm missing? Anything you want to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: add to this? Thomas, I don't. I guess I'm not well-versed. Question, please.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Well-versed in what? Thomas, well-versed in the policy or anything,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: but no, I have nothing to add. Question, okay. Would
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you like to? Question, I just have a follow-up question. Thomas, sure. Question,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: when we showed you that email from Redacted, you said
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that you've seen that before, right? Question, said I've seen
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: that before? Or excuse me, answer by Thomas, I said
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I've seen that before? Question, not that email specifically, but
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you've seen that type of email sent out from Psych before. Thomas,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I said I've seen that type of email that, you know,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I thought I didn't read the top of the email
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: because some of them just say, and why am all staff?
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Because they say all staff and it's sent out to everybody. Question.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Is it normally sent out to everyone? Thomas. No, sometimes
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it is. Sometimes with that specific, probably just sent out
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to the shoe and staff because my name wasn't on
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it and I'm not custody. So it was probably just
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: sent out to custody. Question. If it was an important discussion,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: it's something that needed immediate attention. Would they have sent
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: it out? Thomas above my pay grade. Question. No, would
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: they normally send it out to all staff? Thomas, no,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have to. Question, okay. Now, Agent Redacted, just
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: ask you a question. About could anyone have come in
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and out of 9 South, out of the SHU? Question,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: 10 South. Question, 10 South. But out of the SHU,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: if you were sleeping? Thomas, uh-huh. Is it possible someone
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: could have come onto or into the SHU and left
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: without you knowing if you were sleeping? Thomas, no. Question, no.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Because you would have had to let them in? Thomas,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I would have had to let them in. Question, is
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: there any other way that they could have got in
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: without you letting them in? Thomas, no. Question, could someone
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: else have a key that they could have used? Thomas,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: it would have come from control. Keys, the only other
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: keys are in control. Question, so the only other key
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: is in control? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay. So the count,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the sheets, we spoke about the count sheets and the signature,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that's Noel's. Thomas, yeah. Question, the initials were Noelle's? Not
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the counts. That was on the rounds. I mean, sorry,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the round sheets. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, Noelle took. Initials were
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: on it. Do you recall when Noelle signed those sheets? Thomas, no,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I don't. Question, if the video, let's just say you
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: guys were both asleep at one point. Thomas, uh-huh. Question,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: for a couple of hours. Would she have filled it up,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: signed those sheets before or after? Because she would not
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: have committed those, she wouldn't have done those rounds. Did
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: you ever see her pull those round sheets out and
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: initial them? Thomas, no. I really wasn't paying attention to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: what she was doing. I really don't remember. Question, have
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: you ever worked in the shoe with Noelle before? Thomas,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: it's possible. I don't know. I don't really remember. Maybe
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I have. I don't really remember. It's possible. But like
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I said, I don't know. Question, okay. The reason I ask,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: if you ever worked with Noelle before and you said
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the most of the time, you do the rounds and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: the counts. Thomas, uh-huh, question, would it have been kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of awkward that both of you guys sat down, didn't
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: discuss the fact, you're not going to do the counts,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: don't discuss the fact you're going to do the rounds,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: and just sat down, slept, and you know, went on
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the computer? But no one spoke about the facts but
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: someone between the both of you guys, you initialed the rounds,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the count slips, and also the round sheets. Thomas, speaking of,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that we had any conversation. I don't
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: really remember any conversation that we had or anything like that.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: There are some things that are just not spoken about.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: It could have been, like I said, I was exhausted. Hey, listen,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I did whatever, whatever, and she did whatever, whatever, and
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: that was it. Question, does it mean, Thomas, there wasn't no?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: He gets cut off. If you worked with her in
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the past, does that mean you guys did the same
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: thing in the past? Thomas, no. Question, and just knew? Thomas, no,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that. Absolutely not. Question, how come either
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: of you didn't nudge each other to say, hey, let's go? Question,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: or Thomas, I can't say what happened. What was going
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: on with her? I knew what was going on with me.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I was just, as you could see, by roster, and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that's not my work roster. That's just my overtime roster
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: that you all pulled up and brought to me. It's
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: every day, every day. And I was just, I had
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: things that I had going on at the time. Question,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and I think the point being, there and again, because
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you're under oath, we just want to make sure that
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: we're clear here. In fact, it was like an unspoken
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: thing you guys did, but it seemed to be so
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: natural that you didn't conduct any rounds or any counts.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So it just seems odd that you wouldn't have happened
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: like that in the past. If there was no discussion
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: that were had, Mr. Thomas, like I said, if I
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: did work with her, I don't remember if I did
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: or did not. I mean, it's quite possible. I don't
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: remember everybody that I work with in the shoe, but
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: it wasn't something that we just spoke about. Question. Isn't
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it kind of awkward that the one night that both
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of you guys decided that the rounds are not going
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to be done, the counts are not going to be done,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: that this incident happens? Thomas, it is. Question. Is it possible?
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Thomas cuts him off, but it's never happened before, so
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: of course it's an awkward thing. Question. Is it possible
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: that you guys haven't done any of the rounds or
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: counts on shifts before? Thomas, no, that's not possible. I
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: wouldn't put that all to label one night for every
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: night that happens in the shoe. Absolutely not. I wouldn't
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: label that. Question, he admitted already that he didn't conduct
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: all of the rounds and rounds he's documented, but he
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: thinks he's done the majority of them. Is that correct? Thomas,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I said I'm not perfect. Question, right. Thomas, and I've
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: done my rounds. I've done all my rounds all the time,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: but I'm not a perfect person. I may have slipped
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: up here or there sometime, but I have done my rounds.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Just one particular night, he gets cut off, but not.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I think what you said before, you're not perfect. You
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: haven't done all your rounds, but that mostly. Thomas, I
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: would say that on schedule, that I do my rounds
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: 90 to 95% of the time. And sometimes I don't
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: do half an hour. I do it on the hour. Question, well,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: what about he gets cut off by Thomas? You know
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: what I mean? But it's still the rounds getting conducted. Question,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and what for the counts? And now we're talking specifically
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: for the shoe. Thomas, we're talking about specifically for the shoe.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I usually get every count done, every count done. All right, folks,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: back to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: And we're getting down to the end here. Maybe another episode,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: two episodes or so. And we should be at the end.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: And then after this, we're going to dive into other
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: depositions and more unsealed files. All right, back to the document. Question. OK,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: so and again, if we go back to actually the
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: video and check to see if you're doing the counts,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: is that again? And I'm only saying this because I
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: was just to remind you that you're under oath. Thomas,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I understand. Question. And this is where that we can
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: bring this back up. Thomas cuts him off. I totally understand.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: If you go back to the video, you will see
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that you'll catch me doing my rounds or you'll catch
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: me doing my counts. Like I said, then that's why
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I said, whereas I'm not perfect. Like I said, 95,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: maybe the, oh, hold up. You know, he didn't do
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: this one. An hour went by, but he did it
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: at an hour and one minute. So then technically by
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the paperwork that I didn't do it every half an hour, correct?
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: If I do it every other hour, technically, by the paperwork,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't do half an hour round, I did an
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: hour round. Question, but you would have had to still
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: certify that you did it every half hour. Thomas, no,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: you don't have to certify that you did it every
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: half hour. I don't believe that has to be. If
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: you write on the paper that I did it every hour,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it's just when the round was conducted, when I conducted
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the round. Question, so in order for the rounds to
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: be completed... You don't have to actually sign it every
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes. Thomas, it could be. I'm not saying that
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: it has to be. I'm supposed to be done every
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes. But if I didn't do it every 30
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: minutes and I did one an hour, that's when I
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: wrote that time on there. Question. All right. So you
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: wouldn't then go back to fill it in that 30 minutes? Thomas, no,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't go back to fill it in. Question. Like,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: see how they have like. So you would leave one
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: blank if it wasn't conducted. Thomas, no, you wouldn't leave
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: it blank because somebody would tell you to fill it in. Question,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. Thomas, if it was from 1230
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: to 1 and I did the round once, so I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: just put 1230 to 1. Like you'll see some round sheets,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: it says from 12 to, I didn't do it at,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: but between 1230 and I put 1245. The round is
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: still conducted. Question, so what are you saying? Thomas, it
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: probably wasn't done in the half an hour block. Question,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: so you put, Thomas, it probably wasn't just done in
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: a half an hour block, but it was still conducted.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Question right, so a round was conducted, but if it
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: was covering two, if it was conducting an hour block,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: how would you fill in the two? Would they be identical? Thomas,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: as you can know, because as you can see right here,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it's not a specific time, because this just says as
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: long as it's between this time. So, I did it
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: at 1210. I started here at 1210 and then I
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: did the round here. It lapped over to 1240 because
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I got to talking to an inmate or like that.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: It's still round. It's still conducted. Then right here, you
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? I go at 1252 and I
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: did it. I did a fast round. I did it
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: from 1252 to 1259. The round is still conducted. But
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: even though the last though you're caught up in, I
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: understand because it's black and white. It's not just done
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: just like that. It can be done at any given
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: time as long as the round is conducted. It doesn't
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: have to be by policy. It's supposed to be in
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: the 30 minute block. That's when you're talking policy, but
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off with 30 to 40. Yeah. Question
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: 30 to 40 minute block. But like I say, if
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I did it at 1210 and did it at 1240,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: then then right here, I wanted to just because I
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to get a round done. I conducted at 1252
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: to 1259. It's still within the block. It's still conducted. Question? Well,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that's conducting a round, correct. But what I thought you said,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: it was like you might not do it for a
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: whole hour. Thomas? Excuse me, I apologize. That's a 12.10
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: to 12.40 to 12.42. I'm saying that's an hour. Because
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: that's pretty much we got 20 minutes, 10 minutes before
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and 10 minutes after, then you have an hour. But
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: that's the whole hour. So if I did it for
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: 12 to 1, then I did it from 1 to 2,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: it's still conducted. It's just not conducted in your 30-minute span,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: as you say. I didn't do the in-between, but it's
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: still conducted. You see what I'm saying? Question, no. Thomas, okay. Question,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: because you're talking about one to two, that's a whole hour.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: And then we're not talking about within 30 minutes. Thomas,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: but within the 30 minutes. That's not doing it every
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes. It's like how it's supposed to be done.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: But then if I did it 12 to one, it's
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. A
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: round is still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way, no? Question, no, because? Thomas,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: do you understand? Question, no, I understand what you're saying.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Because if you're saying you're doing the round within an hour,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: and you have to document it one round every 30 minutes,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: so you can only then fill out one of these blocks,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: which one are you going to fill out? Or are
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: you going to do the same thing in an identical place, 1209? Thomas, yeah,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: you just, he gets cut off. But at 1230... Will
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: there be identical blocks? Identical times? Thomas, well, that's up
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to the person. Question, but what you're saying is that
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: if you did it at 1225 and ended at 1235,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: that covered those 30 minutes. Thomas, no, you still put
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that in the block. Question, you're saying the start time
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: and the end time. He's cut off by Thomas. No,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: you still put that in the one block. If I
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: did it from 1225 and at 1230. I would still
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: put that in one block. And then this next one,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: whatever the time is, like I said, 1241 and then
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: 12 to 1242. Because remember, this is just a tier.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: This is not the whole round. This is just a tier.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying is this is 12 to 1
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: to 1210. This is just one tier, G tier. Question, yep, Thomas.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: So then you've got 1211 to 1210. Remember, this is
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: just one tier. Question, sure. Each one of these different tier. Thomas,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: each one's a different tier, so it's taking a minute,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: a tier. Question, right. Thomas, so that's one tier, and
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: then you've got another, 1205 to 12, indiscernible. That's just
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: one tier. I'm doing 1245, so then the whole thing. Question, yeah. Thomas,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: so now you have to get from 1205 to 1220-something
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: is when that whole round was done in a 20-minute span.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Do you got me, or are you totally lost? Question,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying. You did it within the hour. Rodriguez, right.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: And your mark. But here's the thing. You're signing off,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: or initialing, according to the fact that you've done the
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: count within the time period. Is that right or wrong? Thomas, yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: She initialed that she did it between 12.09 and 12.10. Question, no, no.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Let's forget about it. Just talk about you. Thomas, okay. Question,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: when you do your rounds, Mr. Thomas... When I do
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: my rounds, well, I haven't done a round in over
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: two or something years. I do my rounds at 12
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to 1210. I mean 12 o'clock to 1230 in that block.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: If I did it the incorrect way, I did it
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: from 12. It's still, I got it in between that time,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: but I still wrote 12 to 1230. So 12 to one. Question, okay,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I can't. He gets cut off by Thomas. I don't
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: even understand what your question is. Question, no, no, I'll
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: come back to this another part. When do you think
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: these initials were put on? Thomas, I don't know when
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: she wrote it. I don't know when she did it. Question,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: when did these round sheets get submitted? Thomas, at the
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: end of the day. Question, at the end of the day. Thomas,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: end of the whole workday, not the end of every
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: work period, every eight hours. Question, you wouldn't happen to
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: know if she went back and signed these after. Thomas,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't know. Question, initial log. Thomas, like I said.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I lost track of Noel. Question, it sounds like it may.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: It looks like. If this is what you're saying, that
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: she did these rounds at 610, 611, what time? Thomas,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: they're not in order. Question, what time does breakfast get there? Thomas,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: breakfast is no standard time, especially not on the weekends.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: You're talking about on a Saturday. Question, the last one
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: she wrote was 613. You assume that she did it
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: right before you know you discovered Epstein. Thomas, could have been. Question.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: That would be the assumption. Thomas. That would be the
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: assumption by the binder. I don't remember the time the
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: food cart came up. Question. But you didn't witness her
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: actually signing? Thomas. No. I don't know when she put
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: her signature on that. Question. You don't remember like talking? Like, hey,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to grab the food cart. You take care
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: of the round sheets. Thomas. No. Question. All right. Just
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: so that the whole thing that we just talked about
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: isn't convoluted, what we talked about before was that you've
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: done the majority of the counts and rounds, but not
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: all of them. Thomas. I usually just plan on doing
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: my rounds. Yeah. Question. What's that? Thomas. I'm usually spot
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: on with doing my rounds. Question. Well, when we talked
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: about it before, you said you weren't always. Thomas, I'm
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: not perfect. Question, so we're appointing two specific ones. Thomas,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I can tell you. He gets cut off where the rounds. Thomas, again,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: cuts him off that I wasn't perfect. Question, right. The
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: rounds and counts that you've conducted, you believe that you've
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: conducted the majority of them. Thomas, I've done all my rounds, yes. Question,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: if you falsified some but not a lot, when I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: say falsified, You wrote in that you conducted them, but
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, no, that's not what I'm saying.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I wrote what I wrote in my rounds. Question, for
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the count slips. We're saying, Thomas cuts them off. Yeah,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I think he gets cut off. That wasn't the first.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Thomas again cuts him off. You're talking about the counts.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: This is the rounds or the count slips. Question, we're
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: talking the indiscernible. Thomas, I said I'm not. I said
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: that I'm not perfect. Question right. Thomas, you know what
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I mean? I don't want to sit up here that
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: I'm 100% perfect. What I'm saying is that I did
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: my rounds. I was usually spot on with my rounds
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as far
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: as the course of my job. Question okay. So you're
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: saying that these anytime that you worked in the shoe
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: and you marked off people have marked off that you
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: did them every 30 minutes. Thomas. I don't know what
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: people marked off. I only know what I do when
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I usually I get my stuff done. Question. So when
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you're in the shoe on all those overtime shifts that
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: we just showed you, you're doing rounds every 30 minutes. Thomas,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I can't say that I don't do rounds every 30 minutes. Question.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: That's the question. Thomas. Okay. I can't say that I
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: did rounds every 30 minutes. No, I can't say that.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I did the rounds every 30 minutes. Question. So you're
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: doing them most of the time. but some of them
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: are marked off when they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, maybe, maybe. Question, okay.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: And the same thing with the count slips. You've done
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: most of the count slips. Thomas cuts them off. No,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I usually get my counts done. Usually I get my
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: counts done. Question, but not all of them. So if
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: we go back and we find some times you didn't
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: do it, Thomas, you can go back. He gets cut off.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: We're probably going to find, if we're reviewing video, Thomas
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of the 14 years, you may have me one time
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: where I didn't get one done. Question, but even if
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: we're just talking about like August or July, if we
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: go back and review those, we're going to find at
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: least a few that weren't conducted and that were written in.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Thomas, I actually don't know. I honestly
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question, because I thought we already covered this
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: and you already said, Thomas, we did already cover that,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: but I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Question,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I thought my understanding from the conversation was that, yup,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: there's count slips that I've created in the past. Most
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: of them conducted. Some of them aren't going, you know.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Some of them, yes, I just signed them and put
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: them the count number. But I, you know, especially between
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: the hours of 12 a.m. and 5 a.m. Thomas, that's
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: all my overtime right there. It's 12 a.m. He gets
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: cut off, right? That's what I'm saying. Thomas, except for
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: a one-day watch. Question. Because there's that. So like, not
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: every 12 a.m., 3 a.m., and 5 a.m. count was
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: conducted during a shift. Thomas, I don't know. Question, most
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: of them, but not all of them. Thomas, I don't
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: want to say. I want to say all, but honestly,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I want to say all. I want
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: to say all. But then I'm not trying to get
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: caught up in a lie and say, oh no, this
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: one time that I didn't just do that. Question, I'm
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: just trying to reconcile what we talked about like two
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: hours ago. Thomas, exactly. Question, because two hours ago. Thomas
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: cuts him off. I said I wasn't perfect, and so
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: maybe I didn't get one done or not. I don't know.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm not perfect. I didn't get maybe.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't get one of those. But I don't know.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I said two hours ago. Question, you know.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: My understanding was that you. Okay, so you're saying that
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you believe actually your count slips are. He gets cut
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: off by Thomas. I believe my count slips are good.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I believe they're good. Question, okay, so when we go
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: back and review the video, we're going to see that
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: you were actually doing them? Thomas, you're going to see
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: that I get my counts done, yes. Question, and same
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: thing for your rounds. Thomas, you should see me get
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: most of my rounds done. Question, all right, because now
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: that you're saying this, we have to go back and
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: review those things. Question, I'll tell you that I'm saying
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: that I should have gotten most of my rounds, and
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: if I didn't get them all done, I'm not trying
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to lie and say I didn't. Question, Can we go
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: outside for a minute? Mr. Mitchell asks. Redacted answers, absolutely.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: We can take time out. So they get back. All right.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: The recorder is back on. It's currently 2.18 p.m. on
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: June 17th, 2021. Again, everyone is present. Aside from, I
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: don't believe the other attorney is on the phone right now.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: And Mr. Thomas, I remind you again, this is voluntary
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and you are under oath. Is there anything that you
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: would like to add with regard to the rounds and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: the counts that you have conducted and certified in the
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: past prior to August 10th, 2019? Thomas, that I have
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: not completed all my rounds. That's it. Question, what about
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: your counts and the count slips? Question or answer, I
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: have not completed all my counts. Question, all right. So
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: in the past prior to August 10th, 2019, there are
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: times that you were in the shoe that you didn't
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: conduct all of your counts, but you did certify. that
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: they were conducted, is that correct? Thomas, yes. Question, all right,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: the same thing for the rounds. And there are times
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: that you certified on the round sheets that they were conducted,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: but they were, or you, or the person that you
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: were working with certified, they were conducted when they were
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: in fact not conducted? Thomas, yes. Question, and I know
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you were saying like before, like estimates, but like how
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: often would that happen? Thomas, I really couldn't tell you. Question,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: was it a regular occurrence? Thomas, I really don't know. Question, no.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: But did it happen in the past? Thomas, yes. Question,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: but you're sure you're not sure how often? Thomas, yes. Question, okay.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Would you like to follow up with additional questioning on that?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Question from another redacted investigator. During those times when you
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: didn't commit, conduct the rounds or the counts, was it
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: only with Tova Noel? Thomas, I don't remember if I
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: worked with her before or not. Question, okay, which other
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: COs were you working with when this incident happened? Thomas,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I've been there for 14 years. I can't remember exactly who.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I really don't know who I worked with at the time. Question,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: so this has a span over 14 years? Thomas, no,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know when this happened or not. Question, okay,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: that's all. Question, okay, anything else you want to add? Thomas, no,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: not at all. Question, any further clarification? Thomas, no, thank you. Question, okay,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: it's fairly, again, you can, and you may. Thomas, it's
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: no problem, I'm okay. Question, is there anything you want
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: to add to this specific instance? Thomas, no, I don't. Question,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: is there a certain belief that you have as to
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: why Jeffrey Epstein got into the place that he was?
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Is there any reason why you think that occurred? Thomas,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: I can't speak for any of that, no. Question, no, okay,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: and you're sure that we want to conclude this? Question, yes. Question,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: so we don't have to revisit anything later on in
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: the date. Anything you can think of? Answer, nothing yet.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Another redacted person, you're the case agent, so I want
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: to make sure. Question, that's it, nothing, because we covered
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: pretty much everything. Thomas, no problem. I'm here whenever you
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: all need me again. Question, all right, let me just
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: do a quick review and make sure that we're good.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: And hopefully this can be it. All right. Are you
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: confident with all of your answers? Again, knowing that you're
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: under oath, there's nothing that you want to clarify before
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: we end this. This would be the time to do that. Thomas. No, sir. Question.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: No additional information. Thomas. Nope. Question. No questions that were
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: missing that we should ask. Thomas. Nope. Question. All right.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: This is senior agent redacted. It's currently 221 on June 17th, 2021.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm turning off the recorder. Alright folks, there you
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: have it. The full deposition of Michael Thomas after he
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: was questioned by the OIG inspectors in the wake of
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's death. All the information that goes with this
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.