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Protecting Your Skin: The Best Practices · The Science of Skin

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to Skincare Confidential.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Dr.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Ted Lane.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I am with my co-host and co-founder of both Skincare Confidential and the Science of Skin Summit, which is our annual education meeting.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually occurring September 5th through the 7th, 2025 in Austin.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Patty Ferris.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Patty.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm doing great, Patty.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: We have a few things to talk about today.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about trends.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think once a month or every two months, we're going to pop in here and just talk about the trends that are hitting our social media feeds, as well as some really interesting articles that come out on the web.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And Patty, I'd like to kick things off with an article that I read in The Atlantic.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's called The New Sun Worship.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's the tagline, tanning is back, and this time it's not just about looking good.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I read this with fear.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm worried, just as a practicing dermatologist, that people out there are thinking, okay, they're normalizing tanning now.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a little bit scary.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is scary.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we've seen this trend, especially with the younger people, of using the UV index to know when like the best time to get a tan is.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like one, you know, backfire with the UV index, which is supposed to tell you when to get out of the sun.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're also doing some kind of kitschy things with sunscreen where they can kind of make tan tattoos and get different patterns out of a sun using sunscreen sort of strategically.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: But my gosh, Ted, after all these years, we've been talking about the fact that ultraviolet light is a class one carcinogen.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: It causes the most common cancer in America.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: One in five people get non-melanoma skin cancer.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: How can anybody not understand the dangers of it?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And even worse, of course, is melanoma or the dreaded Merkel cell carcinoma, which is what killed Jimmy Buffett several years ago.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all seen them.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly have.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Petrifying.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So so where do we go from here?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Who who's doing all this tanning?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the Gen Z?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's the those people that truly believe that the this the benefits of the sun outweigh the risks.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: And certainly, you know, if you have a darker skin tone, that may be the that may be the truth.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you have the the pigment to already protect you against the sun.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and if you feel like a tan is is healthy and beautiful, and and the again the the benefits outweigh the risks, then go for it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, dermatologist tagline is any tan is dangerous because it's your body's response to an insult that is causing genetic defects and mutations.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's the DNA damage, you know, that we know comes with that.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that DNA damage and mutation that ultimately leads to skin cancer.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't we can't emphasize that enough.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: You also sent me another cool article about lifeguards.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: What was that one about?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was, you know, so many fun things.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love this article.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: So this is an article that that where the author went around asking professional lifeguards how they protected themselves from the sun.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the the the 180 view from what we just talked about.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I I use and I and I espouse the views that I think sun protective clothing is the best way to go.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I just I love it too.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I really hate reapplying sunscreen.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I forget to do it, it's a hassle.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was just in Colorado playing pickleball all day, and I had you know these great new long sleeve with a hoodie, sun protective clothing, and I could be out there all day just playing with my family and had a great time and not having to remember to reapply.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's what these guys do as well.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: They use a ton of sun protective clothing, they're obviously with sunscreens as well.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: One of the people recommended a blue lizard uh sunscreen, sensitive skin blue lizard sunscreen, which is a sunscreen I've known for a long time, Patty.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: You remember Blue Lizard?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I sure do.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Australian sunscreen.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought that was interesting because it's been around for such a long time.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a big brand, still a big brand.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is now.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And and Patty, I I I've heard you say this the best sunscreen is the one you'll use every day.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean that that you know, so many dermatologists have said that on the podium, and it's true.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you can get the patient to use, but I'm kind of with you.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to rely on other ways of keeping yourself out of the sun.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Stephen Wang gave a great lecture on that, and he's very high on yes, sunscreen, but alternatives that you know stop people from having to put so much sunscreen on, you know, strategically going out at the right times of the day, not going out with the peak sun, and then just using that sun protective clothing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty cute these days, too, I might say.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: They got some cute stuff, and it's breathable, you know, so you can wear it out in the sun on a hot day and you're you're gonna be comfortable.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's other articles coming out about why you should use European sunscreens instead of the US sunscreens with the ideas that the filters and the European sunscreens are offered they're just better.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're just better, they offer pro prolonged UV uh protection, so extended spectrum UVA expect uh spectrum uh protection.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, you and I have have always kind of bought our sunscreens in Europe because they they feel better, they're more cosmetically elegant, and they're actually better products for your skin.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't we have them?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't understand it.
• 5:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's kind of switch to another kind of fun thing that we're seeing so much on social media, and that are these red light masks.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you at home at night, you and Hila with the red night light masks?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of doubt it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's up.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Are you wearing a red light mask?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've got one for my dogs.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, it's um, yeah, you're exactly right.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like this photobiology is finally getting its its time in the in the in the sun.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sunshine.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we know that red light, specific wavelengths of red light at specific energies does help to elicit collagen production and decrease inflammation.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: We know that blue light, for example, helps to kill QD bacterium acne, the acne that, excuse me, the bacteria that causes or is one of the causes of acne.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So there's been a lot of data to support the use of red light therapy, but you're right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's just so much more in the public eye about the red light therapy, and I think it's beginning going to become more and more popular.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I think we're seeing a big trend of at-home treatments in general.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of things that used to be exclusive in the office are now in the at-home setting, which is not a bad thing.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing we worry about as dermatologists is the standardization.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's the output of the red light?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you have something like melasma, you certainly don't want any heat because heat can trigger it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you you got to make sure you're not putting the wrong thing on your face.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't feel heat from a red light device.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I always worry just a little bit about the standardization because we just don't have that.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know exactly what the output is.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas in our offices, we know what the output is, exactly what the wavelengths are.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a little bit of a buyer beware for me still.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I understand the you know desire to use it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some pretty good data on red light caps for using for androgenetic alopecia.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we see a lot of the transplant people and hair loss experts talking about it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of a cool area, I think, that we're seeing a lot of expansion in.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, photobiomodulation, as we called it, I guess they still call it that, years and years ago.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I did one of the first studies on one of these devices so long ago.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's got to be 15, 20 years ago.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: But they've come a long way.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: After you finish a hydrofacial device, we have this uh hydrofacial um treatment, we have this LED that's part of the treatment to help decrease inflammation.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's really now being incorporated with so many aesthetic procedures.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it it does that's the one thing that you really can continue using at home.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes a lot of sense, but I I agree with you.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: The we have to standardize the the energy and and make sure that our patients are getting the correct amount of energy for the correct amount of time.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So and I also just wonder, Ted, like about the time.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who has the time to lay with a I mean, I guess maybe it's good.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's like self-care time.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm running around like crazy.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I can't even imagine it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's so not me.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have to tie me down to put one on me.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to think, I guess the masks now with the you know, the that that have the eye openings and everything, you can just put that on and keep it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can read, you know, read a book, I guess.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess that's the way how most people would use it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I I really don't know.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: How long do you have to sit sit under one?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: What's the I think it depends on the energy that they're that they're listening to 15 minutes, I would imagine.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, but it's time.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's definitely time.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's see what other fun stuff we're getting on the internet, internet and and social media in particular.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of talk about glass skin.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I find this like really interesting because like when I was growing up, like people were grabbing blotter pads to like you didn't want anything shiny.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like shiny skin was not in, but now there's this sort of whole movement towards super moisturization and that dewy look to the skin.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really comes from Korean beauty.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you think about it?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is there a downside to all that moisturizer?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like layering lots of moisturizers on?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's almost like super saturating the stratum corneum.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I worry about those that are of a propensity to acne and if it could lead to cometogenicity and increased number of black kids and therefore pimples.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the one thing I worry about.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I think it started, I agree, K-Beauty, and then Hailey Bieber is really came out with a super dewy look, natural dewy look.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: She just show sold her skincare brand for a ton of money based on that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you look at Sabrina Carpenter, I think her look is she has that kind of sunburned cheeks look, really, but also very dewy in appearance.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's some some big stars and celebrities who are kind of helping push this glass scale.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Push it forward.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, push it forward.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and certainly moisturization is great.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you just wonder how if too much is too much, and and I don't know the science if if it shows that there's a downside to it.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you think you could promote malia?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, yes, acne, but I wonder if you could get malia from it too.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those little uh white beads that people develop, particularly older patients tend to get them.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think because the skin doesn't exfoliate as efficiently as you get older, so you do get to be more prone to that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you certainly wouldn't want to supersaturate.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's an interesting trend for sure.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think about it, I'd rather have too much moisture than too much exfoliation.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, me too.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: A thousand times.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: We used to really push exfoliation, and I don't think that's as much of a trend now that we've understood what barrier dysfunction does and how many conditions we treat where the barrier's already impaired.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Last thing you want to be doing is overexfoliating.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's a trend that that we also are seeing now.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: What else you got?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, some other interesting things have come to light.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Love cruising social media.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know me, I'm such a voyeur.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm only a voyeur because I'm sort of a not a great participant.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I find it just so interesting.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of talk about retinols.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like Durhams have been promoting this sandwich technique.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's talked about quite frequently on social media.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll bring to light an interesting study that was done by Kenview, who, as you know, makes a lot of retinols.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: They took retinol and tretinoin and they did sandwich technique study to see what happened to the efficacy, how well the retinol and the tretinoin worked in the sandwich technique.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they did what they called the open-faced sandwich, where you put either moisturizer down and then the retinoid, or you put the retinoid and then the moisturizer.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So half a sandwich, basically, open sandwich, or they did the real sandwich technique.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the efficacy was compromised by the full sandwich.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So moisturizer, retinoid, moisturizer.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Super interesting study because I've always wondered, and I've I've looked in the literature to try to find out where that came from because I've never seen a study, but they actually presented at the American Academy of Dermatology as a poster.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they looked at some biomarkers, HAS3, and they looked at epidermal growth factor, things that we know get upregulated by retinoids.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was just a really cool study.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if people want to use a moisturizer with it, they need to either put the moisturizer under the retinoid or put the retinoid on the skin directly and then cover it with a moisturizer.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: See, this is one of those few studies where it directly applies to patient care.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like that you would read that study and immediately change.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so few of those that come out.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I I agree, I was completely kind of flabbergasted by that because I've been talking about the sandwich technique for years and years.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's one important aspect.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: The other one is to show that it doesn't matter the whether you apply the retinoid first or the moisturizer first, you're still going to get the same efficacy.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I've because I've worried always that okay, if I put the moisturizer first, am I impairing the the um ability of that retinoid to penetrate and and attach to the you know cellulated retino and retinoic acid binding proteins and all of that?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um just a great study absolutely will change the way people practice and it it adds to our knowledge on retinoids in such an important way.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um I gotta applaud Ken to you.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great study.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought so too.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was super excited when I saw it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, somebody finally did it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that we're seeing talked about on social media that is puzzling to me is that retinoids will thin your skin.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's being said quite a bit, and there really is no scientific backing for that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we know retinoids plump the dermis, they boost collagen production and hyaluronic acid production, they increase the thickness of the epidermis over time.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: They compact the stratum corneum, but I don't know really where it comes from.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the retinoid dermatitis, the peeling that maybe they are?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a good question because uh the only thing that it thins could be the stratum corneum, which is that, of course, that dead layered skin on top that is so important for the barrier.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: But by by thinning that and evening it out, it gives the skin a more luminous and radiant appearance and a less flaky appearance as well over time.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really important to do that.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I I agree, Patty, I don't understand where it's coming from because we know what it does to the epidermis, the base of my membrane, the dermis, and and that's all beneficial.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't increase your risk of skin tearing.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, we often will use retinoids for people with skin tearing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a good study to show tazerotine at night and calcipatrine in the morning.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's of course the new Galderma product, a Cetophil product that helps to address dermatoporosis as well.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So and what's in that product again, Ted?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's got the Mendelic acid and syntella asiatica at very micro doses.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and so I I agree, Patty.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I just I'm puzzled by that one.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know why it's I mean, I feel like that's been around for 20 plus years now, and I don't know why people are still saying it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can't win sometimes with retinoids, but we're, you know, we have such a good understanding of them, and you know, let's face it, we all still like to use them.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um, another good question, sort of back on the sunscreen issue, is does wearing a sunscreen lower your vitamin D level?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is this is really a big point that I think could use some clarification.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need to back up and understand that vitamin D conversion is due to UVB.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then again, there's just such a small amount of of sun exposure that's required for vitamin D conversion anyway, that to think that you could use enough sunscreen, I mean, unless you are just such an amazing sunscreen wearer that you could really protect your skin that well.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And some of my melanoma patients are.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, getting 15 to 20 minutes two to three times a week in your you know, forearms, chest, and face is more than enough to convert.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Enough.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And more than enough.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're in the summer in Austin, it's more than enough.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's some retrospective studies that looked at sunscreen use, and people who quote, regular users of sunscreen, meaning mostly the exposed surfaces, probably putting it on once a day, did not have lower vitamin D levels.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I've also heard people say, photobiologists who are astute with this, say that, you know, if you really protect it against UVB, you probably could lower it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you were really, like you said, diligent, you know, putting it on three, four times a day every couple hours, just really being diligent.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: But most people don't do that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where it really comes from is that regular use is not that fastidious.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that good.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're not protecting that well.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: So tannin beds are UVA.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: UVA does not convert the vitamin D to the active form in your skin.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: UVB does.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: UVB is also what burns you primarily.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so sunscreens are very good at UVB protection, but it's also really difficult to apply sunscreens often enough if you're outside to protect you fully.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there's always vitamin D supplementation that you can take just orally as vitamin D supplement.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I think we all can calm down about this this low vitamin D issue, especially in the summer in the south.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It it sure did to have a moment, you know, where we were all even as physicians, we're testing vitamin D like crazy.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think at some point we realized that maybe it was a little bit too much.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Test look looking at looking a little too hard.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of interesting.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, it's Patty.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're enjoying this episode.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just a reminder that the Science of Skin Summit will be held in Austin, Texas, September 5th through the 7th.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Go to our website, scienceofskinsummit.com, and the registration is open and the agenda is there.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to see you there.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Another myth that I think we see a lot is that drinking a lot of water every day is gonna make your skin not wrinkle.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love this one.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wish it would be a good one.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love this one too.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do too.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I really do.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: If it was just that simple, it would be so lovely, wouldn't it?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, in terms of skin hydration, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just start there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, kind of making sure your skin isn't flaky and dry, uh, like what happens in a dry climate.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Usually the skin's hydration is pulling from the climate, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So if you put a humectant on the skin, which draws water in, um, and unless the you're, you know, you're in such a dry climate, it's actually taking water from the outside into your skin.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not trying to pull from lower layers.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So so your hydration internally doesn't really mean too much for the hydration of the skin because of the humidity in the air and the the humectants that we use.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think I think in reality it's maybe a little bit of both because I think humectants do to some extent pull from the dermis, but you have to be so dehydrated, as you and I know, like when you're in the hospital setting, you see patients who have low skin torturer, their skin doesn't snap back, they have to be pretty dehydrated.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think in normal use or normal sort of ingestion of water, most people have enough water.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And oversaturating it, I don't think, is gonna help your lip you much.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: It it may help your mucosal surfaces, like your lips, for example, where there's no stratum cornea in there.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, where there's no barrier, and so that is the only source of hydration.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes sense.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: But otherwise, yeah, don't expect hydration to make your wrinkles look better.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, moisturization will make your wrinkles look better if you put on a good hydrating moisturizer, and that's something that we learn from studies.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, as dermatologists, we love it when there's a vehicle controlled study, because then we really know how effective that vehicle is, and the vehicle will help, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It will make the wrinkles better.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully you add something to the vehicle that even more enhances the benefits.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: But that's why we love those vehicle controlled studies.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, there's so much attention being paid to hyaluronic acid now.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: We know that short chain hyaluronic acid does such a great humectin.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: It can immediately plump the skin.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you go to a mall, you know, these people in the kiosks in the mall are pushing these products that will immediately make your skin look better.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's essentially short chain hyaluronic acid that's just giving an immediate plumping effect that's short-lived.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so there are ways to improve very fine wrinkles with the with the use of humectants, but again, it's short-lived and it's not it's not hydration.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, agree.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned the lips.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about lip balms?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see these people who just get really they use them over and over and over again, and sometimes it sort of becomes a worse and yeah, it's do you think you really get addicted to them?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think people there are some.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't I don't know if it's an act of self-care that people get addicted to or that that just that immediately if they feel like their lips are just a little bit dry or tight, they have to apply it again.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: But of course, uh, you know, I'm a little bit biased because you, you know, what we see in the in this in the office are people who be have a contact allergy to a a lip balm.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we have to start thinking, or a lip gloss or a lipstick, and then we have to start working through what exactly they're allergic to.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think you have to be careful with with lip balms just because of the bias of what we see in the office.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: But otherwise, you know, as I mentioned, uh the hydration of your body actually is reflected in your lips, and so that is something that you can help with.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And just be careful if you're applying something on a daily basis and your lips are continuously dry, you may be actually having a reaction to what you're applying.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's something.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think something like Vaseline or Aquafour, I like the aquifer lip balm.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those are super easy to use and and unlikely to cause a problem.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um we talked a little bit about the younger Gen Z patients, and I think it's really an interesting trend to kind of talk about the notion that they're really into prejuvenation and sort of preserving what they have.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think they're also I see a little bit of a trend of maybe not so much of the kind of filler and Botox.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was a time when a lot of young people were really like jumping on the bandwagon.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I think now we're seeing a little bit of a sort of I don't want to say a backlash, but where they're, you know, they still want to look natural and they want to have healthy skin and they want to do wellness things, but they're maybe not so quick to jump on the bandwagon of uh an intervention like a filler or a toxin, the injectables as we call them, which I think is probably a good thing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of a like a baby Botox, when you start off younger, where you're able to use fewer units just to as a prevention um and to make your skin less red and less oily.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think, you know, I think Botox is a wonderful uh product for skin quality.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so using it as a young person just to kind of prevent some of these other things that can occur with age and and with the exposure to the exposome, I think is a great idea.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh college and banking as as KenView has it in in their product line, or just early, early use of dermocosmetics or cosmeceuticals just to pr just maintaining what you have.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's one of those things, you know, Dr.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Dorsey used always says, you know, the best care for your for your 50s is using skin sunscreen in your 20s.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so she was kind of on the prejuvenation, prejuvenation train before any of the rest of us are.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna lose collagen and elastin every decade from here on out.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: So let me preserve as much as I can.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I can't affect the rate loss, the rate of loss of collagen and elastin, that's biologic, except for you know sun exposure and whatnot.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I I can at this point try and maintain as much as I possibly can.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so it makes a lot of sense.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so too.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a like I said, I think it's a good that's a good trend is really uh maybe that'll keep people out of the sun too.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because what breaks down your collagen any any more than sun, right?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably the worst aggressor.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've got plenty of them, pollution and poor diet and advanced glycation end products, so we could go on and on, all different things.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of interesting, especially as we s approach the meeting, all the different hallmarks of aging now.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, did it start as nine and now we're at how many we 13 now?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: 13.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're we're gonna start talking about mRNA products that can be injected into the skin, which will essentially bypass the hallmarks of aging and just force your cells to produce more collagen.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tell yourselves what to do.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, directly messenger RNA is the messenger.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is the messenger turn on the protein synthesis?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like my wife to me, it tells me what to do.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, or you, Patty, tell me what to do.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I just listen to everybody.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've got two messenger RNAs.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've got two messenger RNAs.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's it's uh that's gonna be really interesting in the next five years or so.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I will learn more and more about that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I need to hear somebody on this podcast talking about m RNA because that's that's really the future.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's gonna be very futuristic.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I like I like that what you said is that it will actually bypass those hallmarks because we won't have to we won't have to pick each one of them off.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: It'll it'll just sh go straight to the cell and tell us what to do.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: What about ingredients?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think of the hot ingredients this year?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can clearly say exosomes are still alive and well.
• 28:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I saw something on the internet said that the search for them is up like 500%.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and what we'll I think we'll see exosomes creeping into mass market products as well.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, not human derived, but but plant derived probably will reach those.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um, if not derive from other sources, um, synthetic, like you said.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think regenerative ingredients are really interesting right now what companies are doing to make make sure that that no animal was harmed in the production of those or or just non-animal derived at all.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it's probably gonna continue on into 2026.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, there's all these regenerative ingredients.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then as we talked about photobiomodulation with the red light therapy, that just goes right along with regenerative, the regenerative trend.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're just gonna see more and more of that as companies start picking out those ingredients that are the most biologically active from, you know, we've talked about the secretome of stem cells, and we're gonna see more and more products that highlight the most advanced knowledge in the regenerative space.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and they'll just take that one ingredient, amplify it, and use that in their products.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I'm excited about 2026 as we learn more and more from these really small startups that are doing that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's gonna be we'll see some new things next year, I'm sure.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: We will see some some.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you though.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be iterations on what we've got, you know, new new twists on what we've got.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some interesting launches, which unfortunately we can't talk about because they're all super top secret for the meeting.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for anybody who's coming to the Science of Skin Summit, you're gonna see a bunch of new products launching.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited about some of those that I've been shown decks on for uh product theaters and things, it's gonna be really interesting.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and we're trying to support these new interesting companies as well, who both need uh a mouthpiece but also need some investment.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so we we're adding a new innovators um showcase for these small companies to present their data.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're an investor out there, if you're interested in being involved in the skincare industry and the regenerative and longevity space, this could be an opportunity for you to see some of these what Patty and I, you know, companies that Patty and I have vetted that we think really have some good science and data to support what they're doing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this could be a real interesting opportunity for the investment community as well.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: So again, just trying to iterate, add more to the summit and and make sure that we are appealing to all different segments within the skincare and dermatology community writ large.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited about this this new session, along with all that we have for the Science of Skin Summit this year.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, Ted, you blew it up for sure.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I turn around, you are adding a new section.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we putting these people?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: What are we gonna do anyway?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: We hope everybody comes September 5th through the 7th in Austin, Science of Skin Summit.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're at the Fairmont Hotel again this year, and I'm gonna cut us off because we're running on a half an hour and we could probably talk another half hour, and we'll do that soon.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds good.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, everyone.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, if you uh have enjoyed this episode, please tell your friends about skincare confidential.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've learned that our growth is really due to word of mouth, and so we really appreciate you being our advocate out there.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, please give us a five-star review and and uh subscribe to the podcast as well.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Science of skinsummit.com is how you can register for the meeting.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we look forward to seeing everybody there.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can reach out with questions at inquire at science of skinsummit.com.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's inquire at science of skinsummit.com.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Please send us your questions, or if you have an idea for a podcast episode uh that you'd like for us to cover, we're we're happy to take a look at it.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So uh thank you very much, Dr.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Ferris.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll see you in Austin September 5th through the 7th, everybody.