Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP36 - Dogma In Heathenry... Is That Even A Thing?

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP36 - Dogma In Heathenry... Is That Even A Thing? · Random Heathen Ramblings

0:02
Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
0:05
podcast. Where we discuss all sorts of
0:08
things, dramatic heathen rerelated.
0:10
My name is Jesse and I am your. Let's get into it.
0:37
All right, everybody. Welcome, welcome, welcome,
0:42
welcome back to this week's episode and thank you for giving
0:46
me the the opportunity to kind of reset myself, reset some
0:52
things and just think. About the future.
0:56
Of the podcast. As those of you who are watching
1:01
this podcast already know, we are now gonna be featuring this
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podcast in video format exclusively here on on Patreon
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now. For those of you that are
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listening either on Spotify or you know whichever other.
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Whichever other site platform that you listen to the podcast
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on an Apple. Podcast, Google, Podcast,
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whatever. Thank you for your continued
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support. Here.
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But there will be no other video versions of this podcast out.
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I know maybe some of you folks. On Spotify especially have
1:44
gotten used to the video podcast being up here, and I am.
1:49
I am stopping that indefinitely, at least for the.
1:56
Foreseeable future, but most likely indefinitely and unless
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or until. I I I see a big change in things
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with YouTube, then the video version of this podcast will not
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be going up on YouTube if you didn't get a chance to see the
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state of the channel. Address which was a live stream
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last week. Then I will be linking that down
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in the description of this video and in the show notes of the.
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Podcast for you folks to go over there on the YouTube channel and
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see kind of what brought me to this conclusion, but I want to
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focus on putting out content to people that actually want.
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To see it all right, I'll still be using the YouTube platform to
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go and live stream here and there.
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And you know, maybe do some short form content here and
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there. But YouTube has.
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Really taken me into a realm of doing this sort of thing that I
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didn't think I ever wanted to get into doing.
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When it comes to the content schedule, you know, all of the
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short form content, really focusing on the analytics,
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trying to beat the algorithm or trying to make sense of the
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algorithm and then having to, you know, change every week when
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the algorithm changes. You know, having to focus more
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on on an algorithm than on content to me is not what it is
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to be a content creator and YouTube.
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Is really screwed the pooch for not just me, but for a lot of
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other content creators. So if you want to continue to
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support me and what I do in the video format, then you will have
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to become a patron on Patreon. It is only a dollar a month, you
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know, So I'm not, I'm not trying to, you know, impact people's
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lives financially or anything like that.
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But I have to put a value on what I do in my time with the
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podcast and YouTube just simply wasn't giving me a return on my
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investment. So you can go to the description
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or check the link show notes of the.
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Podcast to see the link for that live stream and catch up on all
4:04
that information. I'm not gonna bore you with
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details, but as always, please follow me on all my socials.
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Again, I'm not leaving the platforms, I just am trying to
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focus the podcast. Video to hear on Patreon that
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way. I know that people that actually
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want to see it get to see it and they see it in the time that
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works best for them. You know, I was very diligent
4:25
and have been very diligent about releasing my episodes.
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Every week at the same time. And there's just not enough
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engagement during those live premieres either, to be honest.
4:36
You know, so you know if you're still listening to this podcast
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on the on the audio platforms and nothing really has changed
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for you. But if you are wanting to.
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Watch the video aspect of it. Especially when I have guests
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and stuff on here. It's always fun to kind of see
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the folks, see what we're talking about, all that kind of.
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Stuff there is an added element of interest.
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With the visual aspects of a podcast.
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So if you want to see more of that then just sign up to be a
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Patreon Patreon for a dollar a month.
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That does help me maintain a, you know an interest to want to
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keep doing these things in that format plus you get end screen
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credit, you know. So everybody here on the on the
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Patreon platform that's watching me, thank you so very much.
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Your names appear at the end of. This episode in the kind of end
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screen credits, so thank you all so much for that.
5:28
As a quick reminder this. Week here in Middle Tennessee in
5:35
in Springfield TN is the shadow mood event so tomorrow you know
5:44
here Friday is is is going to be the.
5:45
First day, so if you're coming for the weekend, you can get
5:48
your I'll. I'll be seeing you there
5:50
tomorrow, you know, late morning, early afternoon when
5:53
we. Arrive to set up our our vending
5:56
booths. I'll be there reading rooms.
5:57
My wife will be there with some wood burning crafts and things
6:01
that she's done over the years. Maybe a few new items, but we'll
6:05
be there Friday and Saturday. For sure here at Shadow Moot if
6:10
you're wondering where that. Is it is in Springfield, TN.
6:14
The address is going to be linked also in the show notes.
6:17
For you, for those of you that aren't watching and there's a
6:21
Facebook event. For that as well, but it's in
6:25
Springfield, TN. The address is going to be
6:27
linked down there. It's $45.00 for the weekend if
6:30
you going to stay all Friday, Saturday and into Sunday.
6:33
But if you want to show up just for one day it's $20.
6:36
And if you're going to show up any one day of this event, then
6:40
I would encourage. You to show up on Saturday.
6:43
That's when all of the main stuff is happening.
6:45
That's when everybody who's coming in.
6:47
Has arrived and all the vendors will be there.
6:50
All of the games, All. Of the classes, all of the
6:52
everything, The ritual. The feast.
6:56
The big feast. I mean, you know, you show up on
6:59
any of those days, you're going to be getting Fed regardless.
7:03
But yeah, $20.00 for the. Day 45 for the weekend children
7:07
12 and under come into the event for free.
7:10
There are no presale tickets, so you just show up and pay at the
7:13
gate. If you're staying overnight,
7:16
staying over the you know for camping be.
7:18
Sure to dress appropriately, it's supposed to be pretty,
7:22
pretty, nice and cool feeling like a proper October evening up
7:26
there in Springfield, TN. So you know, definitely bring
7:29
enough changes of clothes and and covers, you know things to
7:33
cover you with. Stay warm and be prepared for
7:37
that so. This week's podcast episode is
7:40
going to be just kind of me covering a topic that I think
7:44
doesn't really get talked about too much.
7:48
I've seen some conversations around it here, there and
7:51
everywhere, but it's it's kind of one of those touchy ones,
7:55
right? Because we're going to be
7:57
potentially ruffling some feathers today and then getting
8:00
under people's nails and people under people's skin.
8:04
So, dogma, okay and the. Idea of there being this, you
8:15
know, overarching or maybe underlying even set of rules or
8:22
instructions that heathens are expected to live by.
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And is heathenry A dogmatic religion?
8:28
Is there dogma in Heathenry? You know, and I I wanted.
8:32
To talk about this because you know it's inevitable.
8:38
You know, especially as you're scrolling through social media,
8:41
or if you get into a conversation with someone over
8:43
long distance, or maybe even having conversations with
8:47
individuals in person, you're inevitably inevitably going to
8:52
have topics arise and things come up that differences of
8:57
opinions. Will be there, and there will
9:00
even be times, of course, that there's going to be those folks
9:03
that will try and tell you that the thing that you're doing is
9:06
wrong and that you're doing it wrong based.
9:09
Off of XYZ this thing, right? So I did want.
9:12
To talk about this and the concept of dogma in Heathenry
9:16
and Is there a dogma in Heathenry?
9:18
So before I get, you know, going into my mind on it, let's just
9:24
remind ourselves the textbook definition of what Dogma.
9:29
Is, so I think it's according to the Cambridge Dictionary.
9:34
Now dogma is a. Fixed, especially religious
9:38
belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept
9:43
without any doubt. Okay.
9:48
And is and does that exist within Heathenry, right.
9:52
It's a it. It covers a bit more.
9:54
I feel dogma covers a bit more of an orthodoxic mentality.
10:03
Orthodoxic meaning that your focus is on correct thought.
10:09
Right. What does the book say?
10:11
What is? What is this source of that or
10:14
the other things say versus orthopraxic?
10:21
Ideology or orthopraxic beliefs, which heathenry is, is 100%.
10:26
I feel a an orthopraxic belief in orthopraxic way.
10:30
An orthopraxic religion. Correct action is more important
10:35
than correct thought or correct intent.
10:37
I'm going to get into more of what they mean by.
10:39
That here as the episode goes on.
10:42
But yeah, so you know, I think we see this thing happen.
10:49
Or or. We hear about this sort of thing
10:51
arising more when we either get into ourselves, the
10:58
Reconstructionist side of Heathenry, or any religion for
11:02
that matter, if we're. Looking to reconstruct
11:04
historical stuff and in the end and apply it into a modern day,
11:10
you know practice or you see it with.
11:15
People that who already are that and they can sometimes be.
11:22
The types of folks, and not all, but they can sometimes be.
11:25
The types of folks that will be the ones to tell you that
11:27
whatever it is that you're doing is that you're doing it wrong.
11:30
And they may say it wrong in the sense of you know.
11:35
It's evil that you're doing it this way or that.
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It's, you know, somehow morally reprehensible.
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It's, But it's that it's incorrect.
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You know you're wrong for doing it this way.
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Because it is. It is just either historically
11:47
or factually incorrect. You know, and I, you know, I
11:54
want to preface what we're going to be talking about today now
11:57
that we, you know, kind of read the definition of dogma and and
12:01
and know. A bit about the slight variances
12:04
or differences rather between orthopraxy and orthodoxy, right?
12:08
Correct action versus correct thought.
12:12
But I do want to preface this all by saying is that I still
12:15
stand. By what I've always said, which
12:18
if you've listened to my show or or watched my show or or been
12:22
following me on my socials or met me in person for any length
12:25
of time, you'll know that what I've been saying over the years
12:29
is that you know there is no one who can tell you that your
12:33
individual. Cultic practices that the that
12:36
that what you're doing is wrong by any means you know.
12:40
The way that you practice the your individual.
12:43
Cultic practice your hearth cult.
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Hey, you've heard me talk about stuff like that before.
12:47
I use those terms interchangeably to mean the same
12:49
thing, right? But the way that you do things.
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That should be what you're that that is, that is sovereign to
12:57
you. That is, that is sacred to you,
12:59
and there is nobody. That should be telling you that
13:04
that is wrong, that what you're doing is wrong, Okay.
13:10
They have no business doing that and I have no business doing
13:13
that and I would not come on to this platform or anywhere else
13:16
and say that you know. The way that you do things, you
13:19
know Joe Smith over there, you're doing it wrong.
13:24
So let me just preface what we're going to be talking about
13:28
with with that sort of, you know, disclaimer as it were.
13:32
What we are going to be talking about today, though, are the
13:35
seemingly dogmatic. Or or.
13:38
I'm going to use the term. Dogmatic again because it goes
13:42
over, you know thoughts or or or things that.
13:46
People are expected to do so, the seemingly dogmatic parts of
13:53
Heathenry, you know? So what I've come to learn, or
13:59
what I've come to discover is that Heathenry itself, right?
14:03
If you want to just put a label to Germanic.
14:06
Polytheistic beliefs, and call it heathenry, is not dogmatic.
14:13
However, there are parts of Heathenry.
14:17
There are things about Heathenry that would be considered
14:20
dogmatic in the context that I'm about to.
14:24
Describe so there, you know we we can't just lump into one
14:28
category, you know, dramatic polytheistic beliefs and say
14:33
that every person who is a Germanic.
14:36
Every person who is a heathen, Every group that are heathen or
14:40
heathens, right. Every group, tribe, kindred,
14:42
right, Whatever name you want to put to them that they all
14:46
practice the same thing. They all do the same thing.
14:48
They're. All they all read from the same
14:50
sources. They're all doing it the exact
14:52
same way. That's just not the case.
14:56
There are this nuance, and there's going to be things about
14:59
certain practices that you know when you talk about them to
15:03
other heathens, they're going to likely know what it is that
15:07
you're talking about, and they're going to be familiar
15:10
with those terms, you know. But the mechanics of it, how
15:13
it's done is not going to be exactly the same.
15:18
Across the board, the parts that I believe I've come to learn, at
15:23
least the parts of Heathenry that are there could be
15:26
considered dogmatic, are those things that have been.
15:28
Established by that respective group or groups.
15:34
OK, so it's not going to be something that is just
15:37
generalized for all dramatic polytheists, but one particular
15:46
group or tribe or kindred would have things set in place within
15:53
the social construct. That that group is and everyone
15:58
in that social construct, everyone who is a.
16:01
Part of that group, That tribe, that kindred.
16:03
Are expected to behave, to behave and do certain things as
16:08
that. Group or collective does it OK.
16:14
And I'm just again, kind of generalizing that part of things
16:17
as an example. I'm not saying that all.
16:18
Groups, all tribes, all kindreds follow that model.
16:21
I'm saying that it would not be uncommon to become familiar.
16:28
With a tribe with a group of people that are Germanic
16:31
polytheist that that would call themselves heathens and have
16:35
this. Sort of societal structure in
16:37
place, right? I'll give you an example because
16:41
I can know and I can speak to this because this is my tribe,
16:44
right? My tribe. 30 folk have set in
16:47
place our. Customs our through our
16:50
traditions, right? As a group?
16:53
As a collective, when we gather 4 said things.
16:57
It is expected that everyone who comes and that is.
17:01
Part of the tribe acts and does things in accordance with our
17:08
through and with our custom. It is dogmatic in that way,
17:12
right? Because we have set those,
17:14
those, those standards, those rules, those regulations, that
17:20
code, if you will, the guidelines, the.
17:24
Basis of what we do and how we. Do it.
17:26
That is our through. That is our custom and.
17:29
That is how people are expected to to to behave or to to conduct
17:34
themselves. For those tribal affairs, for
17:37
those groups, sort of. Sessions, Okay.
17:39
And it only. Applies to people who are
17:42
clearly folk, who are the people of that tribe.
17:45
All right, anything that happens, that is an open invite.
17:48
That is maybe. Hosted by us, but that is open
17:51
to the public that is not closed.
17:52
Off to exclude anyone outside of the tribe, of course, as you you
17:57
know, as you would come and celebrate or do things with us
18:00
in that. Capacity, while you are not
18:03
necessarily bound to the same rules and regulations as it
18:08
were, right the same through. As as we are, as as members of
18:13
the tribe, you are still our guest, and you would be.
18:15
Expected to conduct yourself, you know, becomingly right and
18:20
and behave accordingly. As a as a guest, you know.
18:24
So some of those things like I might suggest would be, you
18:29
know. If.
18:31
If if our tribal custom. Is to exclude and not include
18:39
Loki in our tribal rituals, then under no circumstances during.
18:44
Our tribal rituals is, is Loki hailed or is Loki mentioned in
18:49
ritual and therefore any participants of the ritual
18:52
should not be giving a gift to Loki, mentioning Loki doing
18:56
anything like. That towards Loki, because again
18:59
that is the custom that is the tribes through and out of
19:03
respect and out of. Yeah, out of respect of the
19:06
tribes customs, you wouldn't do. That that is what is expected of
19:09
the tribe. That is what expect.
19:10
Is expected of the guests who would be invited to such a
19:14
thing, if such a thing were to happen, right?
19:17
So another would be perhaps you know if you know if, if, if one
19:26
of our holy. Tides of the year that we
19:27
observe as a tribe is is not open to anyone else.
19:34
Like if we want to have something and we want to invite.
19:36
People outside of the tribe, for one thing.
19:39
That or the other, right? But we have maybe one or two or
19:41
whatever events of the. Year where we keep it closed off
19:44
to just members of the tribe, then that is our custom that is
19:47
our through and it would it would go against the traditions
19:50
and it would go against our custom to invite anybody from
19:54
without the tribes group in you know it.
19:59
Would it, would it would go against that and it would be.
20:03
It would be it, would it? Would go against that, so we
20:05
would, we would. Expect the members to know what
20:09
our laws and our customs are and to abide by them.
20:12
You know, that is to what degree I feel that dogma exists.
20:18
In Heathenry, you know there's not this overarching belief that
20:24
you know if you if you don't, celebrate you'll.
20:27
On a certain day of the year that you're going to incur the
20:30
wrath of Odin like her or or or. If you don't plant your crops on
20:34
a certain day of the year, that. Frere will, you know, be mad,
20:38
and he won't bless your crops or any such thing like that.
20:42
There's no overarching dogmatic theme that that Heathenry has
20:47
that I've learned to come across that would suggest.
20:49
That that is even a thing, right?
20:51
It's not like in Christianity or any of the other.
20:55
Kind of judeo-christian or Abrahamic face that have.
20:58
You know divine law in their in their sacred texts that.
21:02
Say you know, don't do this or else and you know follow the
21:08
commandments. Or or else you know all of these
21:10
things that that are very dogmatic.
21:12
And then that no matter where you practice, no matter who you
21:15
are, no matter where you are in the world, if you are.
21:18
Subscribing to those beliefs, then it is expected of you to
21:22
follow those. Laws and follow those things.
21:25
That's not how Heathenry is on a much smaller scale, however.
21:30
Individual groups, you know, small collectives, tribes,
21:33
etcetera, that have. Laws, customs through right that
21:39
have. Those things in place, that is
21:43
to the degree that I feel. Dogma is present in Heathenry,
21:49
and for that reason. You know, if someone were to say
21:52
you're doing that wrong, you know it would only be.
21:56
I think it would only be appropriate to do something like
21:59
that if if in the context of what I just described.
22:01
You know, no, you can't do that. That's wrong to do that.
22:05
You can't hail Loki during ritual.
22:07
It's wrong to do that. Why?
22:08
Well, because it's against the thought the the laws of the of
22:11
the tribe. You're not going to break one of
22:13
those laws. You're not going to break that
22:17
custom. That's because you know, you
22:19
feeling frisky or or whatever, right?
22:21
Like that's you that. That's.
22:23
That's wrong. For the tribe, it might be okay
22:27
and fine. For another group, it may be
22:28
fine and okay for an individual of the tribe to do it in the
22:32
confines in the sanctity and in the sovereignty of their own
22:36
hearth and home. Okay.
22:39
That's the other thing you know all of the any, any group that
22:43
would want to infringe on an individual's.
22:46
Freedom and to practice how they want in the sanctity and in the
22:51
sovereignty of their own heart that group is, is set up for.
22:54
Failure and and and if you've ever come across the group like
22:58
that, or if you're. Thinking of joining a group and
23:01
you find that that's the type of behavior that.
23:03
You know the group tries to to enforce where they have this.
23:09
Say over its members individual cultic practices.
23:13
Then, you know, head out the door.
23:16
Find the nearest exit, run in the opposite direction.
23:20
Get. You know, get away from those
23:21
people. That's not.
23:22
That's not the type of group that you would want to be
23:25
associated with at. Least not by my suggestion.
23:29
That's not any group that I would want to be affiliated with
23:32
and. That's not how I would want a
23:34
group that I'm with to be run or to order function K So if if
23:46
you're talking about that which is to be expected, that which is
23:51
to be expected should be kept, I believe, at the grassroots
23:55
tribal level. And that's it.
23:57
That's as far as it. That's as far as it goes.
24:00
You know, it shouldn't extend past that and it I don't think
24:04
it just it doesn't fundamentally work that way for for Heathenry.
24:08
Now what about those folks that? Do stand by.
24:13
Their defense You know that what you are doing is wrong.
24:18
You're celebrating. You will in December.
24:21
You're doing it wrong. You're you're you're.
24:26
You're calling a feast a festival.
24:31
That you're hosting in September in the at the end of of of
24:37
summer. You're calling it house bloat.
24:39
And you're wrong, because that's not what it is.
24:43
You know or. You're calling, you know, this
24:50
gift exchange process that you're going through right when
24:54
you're when you're gathering with your with your people and
24:56
you're giving gifts to the gods. There's no animal slaughter.
25:02
There's no blood present. But you're calling it bloat.
25:05
Well, you're wrong. You know, stuff like that.
25:12
How do we, how do we approach or how do we address?
25:16
That sort of thing. This is just my opinion, OK?
25:21
So please don't accept what I'm about to say as.
25:25
Your response or what you should be thinking.
25:29
So my response to stuff like that is you are free to
25:35
practice. However you want OK, you are
25:39
free. To call something, whatever it
25:43
is that you want to call it, you're free to do the.
25:48
Thing that you want to do whenever you want to do it.
25:55
If it is factually incorrect, then you're just doing it wrong.
26:01
It's not a derogatory thing to say.
26:03
It's not a bad thing to say. It's not a thing that should
26:09
offend you. If you're wrong, then you're
26:12
wrong. Plain and simple.
26:16
All right. It's not like the gods are going
26:18
to strike you down or you're going to have bad luck or
26:20
anything like that. I mean, just it's it's just
26:22
wrong, OK? Facts or facts?
26:26
You know and if, if we have historical sources.
26:31
If we have documented historical sources that say Free Christian
26:38
Yule in in Scandinavia. And then before right that the
26:42
Germanic Yule was held in the middle of winter, and it was
26:46
held at a certain time on a certain full moon after so many
26:51
moons after the winter solstice, right after.
26:53
All of these things, if we know that that is historically
26:56
accurate and that is historically true.
26:58
There's been plenty of scholars. There's been plenty of things
27:00
that have been backing that up that say that that is true.
27:02
Then to calls that, then then to call Yule.
27:07
And then to call your Christmas celebration, to call it other
27:09
than anything other than you'll it's just it's wrong.
27:11
You're just it's wrong K you can call it something else.
27:18
And I know that nothing, would I say right now is going to change
27:21
things. I mean, people are still going
27:22
to celebrate their Yule in December.
27:24
They're still going to do it for 12 nights.
27:25
They're still going to, you know do all of the things that
27:28
they've been doing for however long they've been doing it.
27:30
And they're not going to change that all of a sudden just
27:32
because I said it. Reason why?
27:34
Just because what what? I go back.
27:36
To saying before is that it was it is their.
27:39
Custom to do it that way right now should they feel bad.
27:44
For being quote UN quote wrong about it, no, it's not a
27:47
dogmatic sort of thing. It's just you are factually.
27:50
Incorrect. All right.
27:52
People like to get. People like to just get.
27:57
Ben out of shape when they're told that they're.
28:02
Without even thinking as to as to where.
28:04
That's coming from you know I've I've, I've seen the word Frith.
28:11
Being used wrongly, incorrectly. I've made corrections to that
28:15
with people like what you're talking about is not Frith.
28:17
And here's the reason why. Do they still go on and about
28:20
calling things with it that with, you know, you know,
28:23
gathering in Frith? And this and that.
28:25
When it's I went online zoom meeting.
28:28
Sure, sure they are. Nothing that I say is going to
28:30
change it. Nothing that anybody says, no
28:32
matter where the facts point you as they could be blatantly laid
28:35
out in front of your face. People are just going to do what
28:37
they're going to do, Okay. But the fact is is.
28:40
That when when it's brought up that well, you're.
28:42
Wrong for doing it that way it it's not to be, at least not
28:46
from my angle and my approach on.
28:48
It's not to be condescending, it's just to be like.
28:52
Hey, you know what? You might not know this.
28:56
Maybe you're just misinformed. Maybe you read an article
28:59
somewhere. Maybe you heard something from
29:00
someone who was also misinformed or uneducated or whatever, and
29:03
they just didn't know. And so, you know, if you're
29:07
calling it house bloat at the end of August or the middle of
29:10
September when that was not what it was ever called and you're
29:16
given that information and told about it in a way to try to
29:19
educate. You and you're getting offended
29:21
by it because, well, people can do what they want to do.
29:23
Like, well, sure, people can do what they want to do.
29:26
And they could be wrong about it.
29:27
They could be incorrect about it.
29:30
Take that knowledge, do it, do with it.
29:32
You know, whatever you want. Be happy in your incorrectness
29:37
for all I care. You know it's all it is is.
29:40
Like, but no. The fact that if it's wrong,
29:41
it's wrong. Nothing derogatory about it.
29:46
You know, you got a guy like this.
29:50
That wants to, you know, make mention of, you know, modern
29:54
Viking. And that you're a modern Viking.
29:57
Because I wrote this. Really.
29:59
Really nice poem about it. And you know, it makes me feel
30:04
all warm and fuzzy. And I want to, you know, make
30:06
other people feel all warm and fuzzy about it.
30:08
Well, dude, you're wrong. None of us are modern Vikings.
30:12
You're not a Viking. I don't care how great your
30:14
beard is. I don't care how beautiful your
30:16
hair. I don't care how nice your smile
30:18
is. I don't care.
30:20
Just stop. It's, it's.
30:21
It's. Wrong to say that you know.
30:24
Now, is it dogmatic? No.
30:25
This is, you know, that it so it it it touches on other things.
30:30
You know, do we do we have to continuously say when things
30:34
like this happen that people are wrong for doing it?
30:40
That's a choice. You know.
30:42
Every year we're going to see Facebook groups, Discord
30:50
servers. We're going to see all kinds of
30:52
social media. Groups and gatherings of people
30:58
meeting in in in some. Sort of online group.
31:01
And and and calling, you know, the 12 nights of fuel, no such
31:07
thing in the historic sense, you know, Is it wrong?
31:14
Factually, yes. Are they wrong?
31:17
I mean, I I I'm not going to say that you're wrong for doing it.
31:20
It's just wrong. It's just wrong to call it that.
31:23
You know, you can be absolutely invested.
31:26
In in doing it that way, I I know people who have their.
31:30
Their tribal customs is to do a 12 nights of Yule sort of thing.
31:34
That's how their. Traditions have been for years.
31:37
No sense in stopping it now. It's what works for them.
31:41
You know, if you're coming into this new.
31:45
And you're just doing it because that's what somebody else is
31:47
doing, then hey, I got news for you.
31:48
It's not correct. It's wrong to call it that,
31:53
according to historical sources. Right now, if you don't care
31:56
about that and you want to do whatever you want to do anyway,
32:00
have at it. It doesn't offend me, right?
32:02
Doesn't bother me. Just realize that it's wrong.
32:06
You know. It's factually wrong.
32:09
You don't have to worry about pissing the gods off or or or
32:13
whatever if you're. Doing it that way, it's not
32:16
dogmatic to that degree, you know, now you join a tribe.
32:22
And maybe you're an individual who's been looking for a tribe
32:26
or a kindred or a group. And you know, I'm just using
32:30
hypotheticals. Okay, let's.
32:31
Say you got a person who's been practicing their own way, doing
32:35
their own thing, you know, observing a.
32:40
You know, a Wheel of the Year A. Wicked Wheel of the Year sort of
32:45
approach. To when they observe their holy
32:48
tides and and they've been doing that way for five years.
32:51
Practicing solitarily. And then let's say they find a
32:54
group of Germanic polytheists who take a very historical.
32:58
Approach on when they observe their holy tides and they do it
33:01
based off of the lunar solar calendar and they observe 3
33:03
major holy tides of the. Year not 8 Sabbaths.
33:07
Well, that person were to join that group.
33:11
You know it is. Expected now that person to
33:13
adhere to those customs. It's not to say that.
33:17
They can't still observe things privately or in their own way,
33:20
in their own individual cultic practices, if they want to.
33:23
You know. Observe Salon or Maben or in
33:27
bulk or any of the other, you know, wicked Sabbaths, then hey,
33:30
knock yourself out. You're not doing it here with us
33:33
in the tribe, though. As a tribe, when we gather
33:35
together, we're not going to blend.
33:36
Salon in winter nights, Okay. We're not going to blend, you
33:41
know? You know, a springtime festival
33:46
with our cigarette bloat. You know that sort of thing like
33:48
it's it's going to be the way we do it that is our.
33:51
Through that is our customer going to be expected to do.
33:54
That, and to do anything against that, you know, there's where
33:58
the dogma comes in again, back to that whole grassroots tribal.
34:04
Layer or level of things so you know when when we get into this
34:10
whole, well, you're doing it wrong.
34:16
So what? So what?
34:18
If you're doing it wrong, or so, what?
34:19
If it's wrong the way you're doing it, does it mean something
34:22
to you? Okay.
34:24
Now that part of things is going to probably touch on some some
34:27
very certain specific heat and probably not anybody that even
34:29
listens or watches this pockets. But you never know.
34:33
About what? The thing I said there is that
34:36
how you do certain things I'd mentioned early on in the
34:39
podcast about Heathenry being orthopraxic.
34:43
Correct action is more important than correct thought.
34:45
OK, doesn't matter what you think you want to do.
34:48
It doesn't matter about. Your intention behind it.
34:50
If you're doing it incorrectly, then and then you're doing.
34:52
It wrong. Right.
34:54
The orthopraxy is more important than the orthodoxy.
34:57
You have to get it right, or at least as.
34:59
Close to what we know is quote UN quote right to begin with,
35:03
right there's, that's where. Some heathens get really, really
35:08
vehement with their idea of. Right and wrong, right?
35:16
If you're calling it bloat when there is no.
35:20
Animal present. There is no blood present.
35:24
There's no animal sacrifice. There is no blood present if
35:27
you're not sacrificing the animal, consuming it, and using
35:29
the blood as the gift. Then it is not bloat fact.
35:34
Right, that is. What you're going to that is
35:36
what bloat is. If you're going to be gifting
35:39
to. The gods, if you're.
35:40
Going to be offering other gifts such as food.
35:42
Drink libations, Any other sort of gift, you know.
35:48
Then call it a gift. Call it a fainting.
35:50
Call it an offering. Don't call it bloat, that's
35:52
where. You're going to get some people
35:53
that really stand hard and true with.
35:57
Regards to the orthopraxy nature or the orthopraxic nature of
36:01
Heathenry, it's not bloat without.
36:04
Animal sacrifice and blood, OK? And don't call it other than and
36:11
don't call it. That unless those things are
36:13
are, are, are. Present, right?
36:14
How it's done, the mechanics. Of of how it's done are are
36:18
probably different because who knows how it was done I.
36:20
Don't think we have anything very specifically.
36:24
Written down about you know where the animal was facing,
36:29
when it was slaughtered, how it was slaughtered.
36:32
You know. What was done in sequential
36:36
order after it after it was slaughtered, right?
36:39
All of these things. There's nothing that specific
36:43
that I know of at least. Documented anywhere that can
36:46
back. Up any sort of orthopraxy for
36:51
it. But one thing is for sure is
36:55
that you know. For a lot of.
36:56
Folks, is that you don't call? It bloat we're not going to
36:58
bloat to the gods with. With flowers and ale.
37:03
And and handcrafted items. And incense and and stuff like
37:07
that, we can. Offer to the gods.
37:09
We can perform a feigning, a gift that sort.
37:12
Of thing, but it's not a bloat unless we've got the the sheep
37:18
or the OR the cattle or the. Horse, you know.
37:25
It's just simply not that. Right.
37:29
When it comes to ritual, right, the orthopraxy of.
37:33
Of of ritual, right? Are we calling the quarters
37:38
before ritual? That is not.
37:41
A heathen. That is not that.
37:43
There's nothing heathen about that.
37:45
There's nothing in in heathen text that that suggests.
37:50
That that was a thing done by ancient Germanic Heathens,
37:54
right? There are certain.
37:58
And bits of information. That's that maybe suggest.
38:02
And this is this is. Again, not even 100% factor or
38:05
or sure, but there is this. There's suggestion that the use
38:10
of. Fire Walking the perimeter of an
38:12
area carrying fire was used to make sacred.
38:16
Space, not the calling of quarters, right?
38:18
That's a. Neo Pagan Wicken thing probably
38:25
has. Roots and some other beliefs as
38:27
well that go back pretty far but as.
38:29
Far as dramatic. Pagan Germanic polytheistic
38:33
beliefs doesn't. Don't see it there.
38:36
You know. So to say you know that a
38:38
heathen ritual. Involves, you know, the calling
38:41
of, the calling of the quarters and creating a circle with salt
38:46
and all that. Like no, can't, can't do that
38:48
either. That's not that is incorrect,
38:51
that is wrong. That's not a heathen thing.
38:55
So you don't call these things that way.
38:56
You know you don't. Use.
38:58
Those terms to define them. Because that is.
39:01
Technically wrong. It's not a, it's.
39:02
Not a matter. Of dogma on the larger scale.
39:08
And again, dogma doesn't even come into the picture, I think.
39:11
Until. You get.
39:12
More down to the grassroots, you know, level of things, so.
39:21
And I always want. Just can't just, you know,
39:22
reiterate the fact that. You know, it's not me sitting
39:25
here telling you that if you practice, you will.
39:27
At a you know at the end of December versus?
39:31
You know, end of January, beginning of February or
39:33
wherever in between the full moon lands that time of year.
39:38
You know, if you're not doing it that way, then you're doing it
39:40
wrong. And you're wrong for doing it.
39:42
I mean if. If I say that you're.
39:43
Doing it wrong then. Then don't take offense to that
39:45
right. It's, it's historically.
39:46
It's historically inaccurate. Are you wrong for doing it
39:50
differently? Hell no.
39:52
Absolutely not. You know if it works for you.
40:01
In your individual cultic practices.
40:03
Then then, don't let me or anyone else tell you
40:06
differently. You get lined with other people
40:10
who are doing things a certain way than you are expected to
40:13
adopt their traditions. And and do things the way that
40:15
they do things at the level at which they do them.
40:19
However, that might be OK, just cuz I gave some examples earlier
40:22
on how my tribe may do things doesn't.
40:26
It's not. It doesn't speak to the overall.
40:30
Larger Heathen community. You know every group's.
40:34
Going to do things differently. At least they should.
40:37
Be doing things in in in the way that their customs and their
40:40
through has dictated so. Some things to keep in mind, you
40:46
know, now I'm curious to hear what you folks have to.
40:50
To. Say and since this is restricted
40:53
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40:58
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41:01
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41:03
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