Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Ep 12: Sukie Baxter - Whole Body Revolution

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Ep 12: Sukie Baxter - Whole Body Revolution · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

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  Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
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  have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
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  got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
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  How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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  and most importantly, find joy.
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  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
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  New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
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  Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
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  You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
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  Welcome back to Live Free, Ride Free, where we talk to people who are
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  living self actualized lives, living life on their own terms and making
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  a go of it in whichever way they are interested in following their passions.
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  Making a livelihood.
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  What can we learn from these people?
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  It's what we all aspire to do this week I've got Suki Baxter now if you don't
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  know who she is just go on YouTube and type her in you're gonna find some videos
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  that an awful lot of people watch and I like many of you I'm always a bit
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  Curious about how do these people get so many people to watch their videos?
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  I mean, yes, their content's amazing and her content is amazing.
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  We're going to talk about it.
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  So obviously you can't get that without amazing content.
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  How do they take it beyond that?
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  How do they make a living from it?
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  More than that.
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  How did they get to the point where they were making that
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  amazing content in the first place?
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  So what is Ziggybax's amazing content?
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  Well, it has to do with your nervous system.
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  It has to do with your brain and it has to do with Feeling better about
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  stuff in a real way not in an ephemeral way I don't want to give too much away
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  because Suki's gonna talk us through some pretty interesting stuff about how to
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  live happier Not just to live free ride free more self actualized, but really
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  genuinely some secrets of happiness here So without further ado welcome Suki.
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  Can you tell us please?
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  Sukie Baxter: Who you are.
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  Thank you so much for having me.
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  I am an embodiment coach.
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  I, as you said, have a YouTube channel that has gotten quite a few followers.
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  And I came into this work through the door of the body.
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  So, I spent about 15 years having a clinical body work practice where I
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  worked 1 on 1 with clients and in the process of understanding how bodies work.
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  A lot of people who came to me had a lot of physical pain and postural complaints.
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  I had to really start asking myself some questions about where the symptoms were
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  coming from and all of my questions.
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  Continuously led me back to the nervous system.
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  So, over the course of the 15 years that I was working on people, I
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  just kept coming back to the nervous system as the foundational piece that
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  was contributing to a lot of these challenges that I was seeing in people.
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  And when I really began to delve into the nervous system, I.
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  Discovered that it was related to far more than just your physical posture
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  and pain or lack thereof, but really to how you were experiencing how person
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  experiences life, whether that's in a positive way, a pleasurable, pleasant
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  way, or whether it creates a life that is challenging and full of struggle.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, you said very Quickly there.
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  You had a physical therapy practice.
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  What did you do?
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  What were you doing?
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  What was your hands on?
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  Were you a massage therapist?
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  Were you, what
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  Sukie Baxter: were you?
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  Yeah, so I am technically a licensed massage therapist and I practice a form
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  of body work that is called rolfing, which some people may have heard of.
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  Some people may not have, it's got kind of a grassroots following.
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  But rolfing is a.
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  Way of approaching the body from a structural perspective.
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  So really looking at how all the parts and pieces of your body work together to
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  create optimal posture and, and movement.
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  So when a person would come in, I would do a posture and movement assessment,
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  have a conversation with them observe them walking, standing, moving in various ways.
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  And then approach helping them to be more integrated and to have
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  basically less friction in their movement from a very holistic way.
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  So, oftentimes, when we go to a practitioner, a specialist for
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  maybe we have a sore shoulder or a sore hip a lot of times the work is
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  focused on that region of the body.
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  So you go in, you say, I have a sore shoulder.
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  Your doctor looks at your shoulder.
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  Why is this shoulder sore?
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  When someone would come to me, I would look at their shoulder.
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  And also, how is that shoulder connected to a ribcage?
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  And a torso and how is that rib cage balanced on the
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  pelvis and so on and so forth.
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  So really backing up and looking at it from a systems level
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  Rupert Isaacson: approach.
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  And when you do this Rolfing thing, are you, is it like a massage and that you're
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  going in and you sort of squeeze with your hands in the way that we think of, or, you
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  know, put your elbow on or whatever the way we think of as a massage therapist?
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  Or are you doing something else?
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  Something more specific?
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  Yeah,
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  Sukie Baxter: I think that's a really great question.
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  So, yeah, a lot of times it looks like classic body work, right?
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  So some, you have somebody come in, they, they're standing in a room,
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  you do a movement posture assessment, and then typically I would get them
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  on a table and do various things that look like massage, right?
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  Applying pressure.
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  I may have them move while I'm applying pressure.
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  But yeah, there's, there's physical contact.
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  So it is manual manipulation, manual therapy, however you want
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  to classify that which is why it's classified under massage.
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  But the experience of it is usually a little bit different,
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  which is something that's a little bit hard to verbally convey.
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  But when people experience it, they're like, oh, yeah, this is different.
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  But really, I, I think what's really interesting is that this is
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  what led me to the nervous system.
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  Right?
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  So when somebody gets.
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  A body work of any kind.
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  What's really going on there?
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  And what I was noticing was that I would have these clients come in.
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  Some of these clients, I swear to you, just being in the room with me,
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  they would start to change and shift, like just having a conversation.
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  There was no physical contact whatsoever.
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  When these people started to change, it was so easy to have
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  their bodies shift other people.
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  I.
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  I'm telling you, like no amount of pressure that I applied
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  seemed to have an effect.
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  And that's really where I started asking the question.
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  Okay.
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  I've been told that what I'm doing here is like breaking
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  up adhesions in their fascia.
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  So rolfing uses a lot of myofascial release, myofascial type techniques.
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  And I was, I was told in my training, like we're, we're doing all these
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  things to break up adhesions or separate different sheets of fascia.
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  So they glide, but all these mechanical things.
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  And I was like, but.
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  I'm applying pressure to all these different people with differing results.
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  So something else might be going on here.
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  And I just, even at the inception, I was like, I think it's in the nervous system.
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  I didn't know.
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  I didn't have a lot of you know, this is, this is BG, as I say, like, before Google.
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  So there wasn't nearly as much information available.
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  And I, I didn't know where to go and who to ask, but I just started
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  Thinking that there seems to be a nervous system component here.
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  It seems to have something to do with how a person senses the
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  contact that is being applied.
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  And over time, as I learned a lot more and learned how the body works, I was
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  like, yeah, actually, that is true.
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  And I filled in many, many, many holes and gaps and knowledge and I'm still learning
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  as we all are, because we're still discovering how all of this works, but.
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  But over and over again, I kept coming back to, yeah, it's in the
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  sensing, it's in the body's ability to feel and to have that sensory
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  information processed by the brain.
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  That's what's actually changing the map of the body and the posture,
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  but there's also all these other wonderful effects as, you know, as you
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  mentioned, that make us so much happier.
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  When our nervous system is optimally functioning and that was the other piece
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  of it was that some of my clients would come in and I would just see their entire
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  lives change where people would You know, leave really toxic relationships.
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  They would leave careers that were burning them out and making
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  them miserable and unhealthy.
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  They would make these dramatic changes in their lives.
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  And it seemed coincidental.
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  It seemed to, it seemed to coincide with the work that we were doing and
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  I want us to know, okay, so why are these people like, really coming into
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  their own, really having more agency over themselves, really Finding a way
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  to follow what feels good for them and create that life that makes them happy.
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  Like, how is this physical contact creating that kind of a change?
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  And again, it led me to the nervous system.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
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  So before we go to the nervous system, it's interesting.
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  I mean, we, we, this podcast called Live Free, Ride Free, and it sounds
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  like you are helping people to do that, to liberate themselves and self
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  actualize through the nervous system.
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  We're going to go back to that.
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  And I want to know how, however, there's some questions I've got based on some
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  things that you said, which some terms I want to clarify, because I'm sure
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  that a lot of listeners might not know.
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  So we should tell them what is fascia, what is something that is myofascial, and
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  when you talk about sensing, what is that?
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  So can we start with fascia?
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  What is fascia?
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  Sukie Baxter: Yeah.
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  So fascia is a type of tissue.
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  It's a connective tissue within the body.
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  It's one of the most pervasive tissues within the body.
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  You have quite a lot of it.
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  Oftentimes you will hear People say that it wraps around things like
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  wraps around the muscle bellies and kind of is under your skin.
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  So it covers things, but it actually permeates your body
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  down to the cellular level.
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  So if we could magically put you, Rupert, into some kind of a solution
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  that would dissolve everything in your body, that was not fascia, we would
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  have a 3d imprint of Rupert, which is different from a lot of things, right?
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  So if we just had your skeletal structure, you know, we would, we would see your
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  bones, but we wouldn't actually see your.
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  Your facial features and your, you know, the musculature of your body
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  and how all of that was developed.
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  If we just had your skin, we would see the outside, but there'd be no,
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  you know, in no inside no innards.
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  We wouldn't really be able to know what the inside organization of your body
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  looked like fashion gives us all of that.
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  It would give us almost like a spider web, like, imprint of your body.
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  And fascia has been something that people have been looking at as there's, there's
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  quite a lot of cells in fascia that sense.
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  So we'll talk about that in a second.
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  That sense where we are in space, that sense stretching and vibration
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  and movement in our bodies.
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  And so, fascia is kind of the organ of.
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  Consciousness or interoception, or people quantify that differently, but
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  it, it's a, it's a type of tissue that both supports our body and then gives
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  us a lot of information about our body state and our body's movement.
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  Rupert Isaacson: So you say an organ, do you think of it as an organ?
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  Sukie Baxter: Well, I don't know that it classically is considered
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  an organ that's just a word that people use to describe it.
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  Right, but do you,
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  Rupert Isaacson: do you feel that that's an apt description with it,
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  with the work that you've done?
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  Sukie Baxter: I think it's an organ similarly to the way skin is an organ.
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  Okay.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Like an internal skin, an internal sense of skin.
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  Sukie Baxter: Exactly.
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  But it doesn't it doesn't do the same things as skin, right?
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  It doesn't sweat.
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  It doesn't do all of those things, because that would be awkward if you're
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  sweating around your stomach or something.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  So I, so I don't know if like, if we were being like really, you know,
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  linear, like Western medicine type of scientific, is it technically an organ?
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  I don't know if but yeah, you could say it's an organ of consciousness
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  or an organ of something.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so consciousness.
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  So is it, so when you were describing it, it sounds, the first thing
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  that I thought was it sounds wet.
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  It sounds like a watery thing.
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  And I remember from the days when I used to hunt deer and things like
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  that, and I would skin them and you would, you know, peel back the
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  skin and then there would be this.
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  Jelly like thing that was like a bubble wrap around things and I presume that
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  that is the fascia or part of it.
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  Anyway it was pretty wet.
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  I suppose our bodies are, you know, 75 percent water or whatever,
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  but it's interesting that you talk about consciousness there.
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  Do you feel that your fascia is a conductive part of the body that,
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  that conducts information from one part of the body to the other?
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  And if so, how does it differ?
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  I know I'm going down a bit of a rabbit hole.
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  How does it differ from your nervous system?
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  Or do you think it's part of?
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  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I think, I think it is.
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  I think everything is everything to be honest.
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  So, so, so, and this is kind of, I think a question that I come up against a lot in a
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  lot of different areas where people like, well, you know, they look at this piece of
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  us now, like, this seems really important.
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  They get really fixated on that piece.
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  Fascia is an important piece, but it's not important on its own.
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  In my opinion.
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  I think it's important in that it's connected to a system.
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  It's it's sensing.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Our internal environment, it's sensing our external environment,
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  and then it's conveying that to our brain via nervous system processes.
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  If we didn't have those nervous system processes to receive that
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  information, it wouldn't really matter that we had the fascia.
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  So the whole system is what's important.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Is it a bit like the silica in a master keyboard?
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  I don't
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  Sukie Baxter: know.
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  I don't know how keywords are put together.
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  Maybe.
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  But, but I, I think people get sort of like, aha, this is the thing.
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  And they get really fixated on that.
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  And that is very it's very science based.
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  It's, you know, science seeks to kind of take things apart to their smallest
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  component, which is really beneficial.
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  It helps us to understand things.
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  But we, we often kind of get fixated on these smaller pieces and
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  lose sight of the bigger, Picture so fascia is part of our system.
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  You asked about myofascia.
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  So when you say myofascial myo means muscle.
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  So it's muscle fascial.
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  So you're talking about the, the muscle and the fascia together.
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  So, myofascial release, what that literally means is
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  we're releasing the muscle.
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  Like lengthening, you know, relaxing, reducing tension and we're stretching the
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  fashion, but that, that brings me full circle back around to what I was saying,
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  which is that what I was taught was, you know, we're, we're, we're doing that.
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  We're stretching, we're mechanically, like, if you think about like a plastic
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  bag, like a grocery bag, if you stick your thumb in it and you kind of stretch
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  it out how it, how it kind of creates a pocket or a pucker in the, in the
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  plastic, that was how I was taught.
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  We were affecting the body.
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  But my, my actual clinical experience did not bear that out because I was like, I'm
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  the same person for all of these people.
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  I'm applying, you know, pressure from my body to their body, but
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  I'm getting different results.
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  So why is it working for this person with a feather touch and that person
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  with extreme amounts of pressure?
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  We're not having the same results.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and this process goes on for how long?
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  You're, you're rolfing, you've got your practice, people are coming
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  in, they're lying on your table, you're, you're, you're noticing
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  all these different things.
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  Some of them are having these huge life, positive life changing events.
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  Some you don't even have to touch and you seem to get a positive effect.
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  Some, no matter how much you touch them, not so much.
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  How long is that going on before you go, I want to do a deep
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  dive into the nervous system?
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  Sukie Baxter: It was an ongoing process.
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  It was more that every time I tried to learn something new, I sort of
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  came back to the nervous system.
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  So, I started with studying a lot of energy work because I was like,
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  is there an energy work component?
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  And I think there is but it was, it was ultimately unsatisfying for
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  me because I, it still felt like.
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  Okay.
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  But it's very random.
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  How do I actually, yeah, exactly.
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  I love energy work.
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  I think it's really great, but I just didn't feel like it was tangible
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  enough for me to feel confident that when a person came into me
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  and I also do this work on horses or have done this work on horses.
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  So when, when a human would come in or when I was working with a horse,
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  I was like, how can I kind of.
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  I don't know tangibly that I'm having an impact here.
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  And energy work was just, like, vague is a really good word.
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  And some people are, you know, they feel it and they're really into it.
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  And other people, it's like, they can't access at all.
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  So, so, so That was a piece of it.
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  But then also the nervous system runs on, you know, electricity, which is energy.
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  So again, I was like, okay, let's go back to the nervous system.
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  And I just sort of everything that I did kept bringing me back to the nervous
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  system is our essentially our human or mammalian really, because not just human,
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  but our mammalian operating system.
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  And if we're affecting that, if we can understand how we're affecting the nervous
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  system then Like you said, we can really liberate people because the other thing
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  that I kept running into in my studies was these sort of like limiting blueprints of
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  how to, how to control your thoughts or how to excavate, you know, quote, limiting
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  beliefs, or, you know, basically how to control yourself in a way to be happy.
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  And.
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  And that didn't seem to really work for me because, because
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  not all people are the same.
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  For me, I wanted to strip away all the layers of what a person isn't so that they
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  have the ability to grow into what they naturally and inherently are, which is
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  going to look different for you than for me, than, you know, for, for everybody
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  out there, we're all individuals.
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  So let's
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  Rupert Isaacson: go from vague to vagal.
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  Tell us what you found out about the nervous system.
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  Sukie Baxter: So when I landed on what is called polyvagal theory,
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  and I can define that term, but it's called polyvagal theory.
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  It really My mother's
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  Rupert Isaacson: name is Polly and she can be a bit vague.
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  It's true sometimes.
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  Sukie Baxter: And probably in many ways.
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  When I landed on that, I It seemed to really map with what
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  I was observing in people.
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  So, polyvagal theory is a theory that was put forth by a
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  gentleman named Steven Porges.
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  And what Steven Porges found is that there's a very large nerve, which we
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  did know about, but he didn't discover the nerve, but he found that this very
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  large nerve called the vagus nerve it's called the vagus nerve because
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  vagus comes from the vagus nerve.
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  It's not Las Vegas Vegas.
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  It's, I was, I was hoping it's from the Latin word for wandering
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  and it's a very long nerve.
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  So it, it wanders from your cranium down through your neck through
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  your upper torso and then into your viscera deep into your viscera.
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  And so if you look up, you know, an image of the vagus nerve, it's this,
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  this big tangly long wandering thing.
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  And what what Stephen Porges found is that this vagus nerve is it functions
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  to help regulate our stress response.
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  And his theory is that there are multiple branches of this vagus nerve and that
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  these branches have different functions, which is why it's called polyvagal theory.
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  So poly coming from many.
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  The word for many vagal from the vagus nerve and then
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  theory because it is a theory.
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  And I always want to emphasize that because there's a lot of people
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  talking about exactly how this all works physiologically within the body.
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  We're still learning.
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  I think in 10 years, we're going to know a lot more and we may
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  have a completely different.
• 18:48
  Map at that time.
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  It's growing.
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  It's evolving.
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  But it's a, it's a theory.
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  And so I always like to keep in mind that the, that it's a map.
• 18:55
  It's not the territory, which is the common saying in lots of fields,
• 18:59
  but it's common in body work.
• 19:00
  The map is not the territory.
• 19:02
  So.
• 19:03
  It's just, it just gives us a framework for beginning to understand
• 19:06
  the stress response and it does map.
• 19:09
  very cleanly with what I and a lot of other practitioners of various fields have
• 19:14
  found observationally in our clients in terms of how stress functions and what
• 19:19
  it does to us and how that is observed.
• 19:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us the sort of breakdown 101 polyvagal for dummies?
• 19:27
  Yeah.
• 19:28
  Sukie Baxter: So the polyvagal theory the, the simple breakdown is that
• 19:31
  you basically have three states in polyvagal theory, you have the
• 19:34
  ventral vagal ventral meaning front.
• 19:36
  So this is the front branch of your vagus nerve.
• 19:39
  Stephen Porges identified this as the branch of your vagus nerve that is
• 19:43
  responsible for social engagement.
• 19:45
  So the ability to connect to other people and animals, the ability
• 19:49
  to have empathy, the ability to co regulate meaning that we can kind of.
• 19:53
  Symbiotically feel what the other is feeling and come into
• 19:56
  a similar state as another
• 19:57
  Rupert Isaacson: person.
• 19:58
  And I'm listening to reggae and having a beer and feeling iry and having a hug.
• 20:03
  I'm in my bedroom.
• 20:03
  There you go.
• 20:04
  Okay.
• 20:05
  Sukie Baxter: Yes.
• 20:05
  Cool.
• 20:05
  Got it.
• 20:06
  Absolutely.
• 20:07
  It's, it's basically where all the good stuff in life is.
• 20:09
  The, the, the love, the joy, the happiness, the, you know, the excitement,
• 20:13
  the, all the, all the things that we think of as things we want to experience.
• 20:17
  Rupert Isaacson: That's all down the front of my tummy.
• 20:18
  Sukie Baxter: Ventral.
• 20:19
  Front of your tummy.
• 20:19
  Ventral bagel, according to the, gorgeous.
• 20:21
  Yep.
• 20:22
  Then you have your sympathetic nervous system.
• 20:24
  So, your sympathetic nervous system is responsible for your
• 20:27
  fight or flight response, which a lot of people are Is ventral
• 20:30
  Rupert Isaacson: parasympathetic?
• 20:31
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so your vagus nerve is the main nerve of your
• 20:33
  parasympathetic nervous system.
• 20:35
  Although I will, like, little asterisk here.
• 20:38
  There is research that is finding that the vagus nerve can have an
• 20:41
  activating effect when stimulated.
• 20:45
  So I, I'm still looking into this because I'm, it's really hard to get
• 20:52
  a grip on what exactly that means.
• 20:55
  Rupert Isaacson: But for dummies at this stage, front
• 20:58
  ventral parasympathetic, good.
• 21:01
  Yes.
• 21:02
  And then, so the other one is dorsal, right?
• 21:04
  Sukie Baxter: Yes, so your vagus nerve is parasympathetic, your
• 21:07
  sympathetic is fight or flight.
• 21:09
  Your parasympathetic is rest and digest, your sympathetic is fight or flight.
• 21:13
  If you can just kind of get that piece down, that's the simple explanation.
• 21:17
  But
• 21:17
  Rupert Isaacson: are there not two branches of the vagal nerve doing both?
• 21:20
  Right.
• 21:20
  So front one ventral, back one dorsal.
• 21:23
  Sukie Baxter: Correct.
• 21:24
  So, so if we go down one step from your ventral vagal, we've got your
• 21:27
  sympathetic nervous system, different branch of your nervous system,
• 21:30
  but that's your fight or flight.
• 21:31
  This is what people think of when they think about, I'm stressed.
• 21:33
  This is tension.
• 21:34
  This is anxiety.
• 21:35
  This is agitation.
• 21:38
  This is, you know, like clenching jaw, tight neck and shoulders, all of
• 21:41
  that stuff lives in the sympathetic.
• 21:42
  It's a, this is a mobilizing branch of your nervous system.
• 21:46
  So it's what gets us up and doing stuff basically.
• 21:49
  Hey, there's a threat to your survival.
• 21:51
  You better take action or you're going to get eaten by the lion which is bad.
• 21:55
  So one step down from that, you have what you mentioned, which is your dorsal bagel.
• 22:01
  the dorsal branch of your vagus nerve.
• 22:03
  So the dorsal vagal response or dorsal vagal states dorsal being
• 22:06
  like a dorsal fin, meaning the back.
• 22:09
  So you've got your ventral front dorsal back of your vagus nerve.
• 22:12
  And this is your shutdown or immobilizing branch of your nervous system.
• 22:16
  You can think about this like you're playing possum.
• 22:18
  And like you mentioned, the vagus nerve is the parasympathetic nerve.
• 22:22
  Parasympathetic can be I'm connected to another person, but it can also be
• 22:27
  I'm shutting you down because you've been in sympathetic for so long that
• 22:30
  we need to pull the emergency brake or your heart's going to explode.
• 22:32
  You cannot live in sympathetic all the time.
• 22:35
  We are meant to have a sympathetic response to dispatch the threat.
• 22:39
  You either run away from it and survive or you fight it.
• 22:42
  And survive, or you die which, at which point, game over.
• 22:47
  It's supposed to be
• 22:47
  Rupert Isaacson: over pretty quickly.
• 22:48
  It's
• 22:48
  Sukie Baxter: supposed to end, and then we discharge it.
• 22:51
  Unfortunately for humans, because of the way we live in this very
• 22:54
  contrived world we have a lot of stimulation coming at us all the time.
• 22:59
  Just a lot of noise, a lot of sensory noise and just a lot, and we even have
• 23:03
  mental stress, which is not, I don't think zebras sit around worrying about
• 23:07
  how they're going to pay their taxes.
• 23:09
  I don't know, I haven't really chatted with a lot of zebras, but
• 23:11
  I think it's probably unlikely.
• 23:13
  So these things are all essentially threats to our survival that keep us.
• 23:17
  In sympathetic quite a lot.
• 23:19
  If you stay in that state over a prolonged period of time, it
• 23:22
  does a lot of really bad things.
• 23:23
  So short term stress is very beneficial.
• 23:25
  I think that's 1 of the misnomers of stress is the
• 23:27
  people think it's always bad.
• 23:29
  Short term stress can actually activate your immune system.
• 23:32
  It's how you you know, get over being sick.
• 23:34
  It can, it does a lot of really good things in short duration.
• 23:38
  Right.
• 23:39
  For prolonged or chronic stress is very, very damaging to our health.
• 23:43
  It decreases our brain matter, it unravels our telomeres, it does
• 23:46
  all kinds of horrible things.
• 23:47
  What's a telomere?
• 23:48
  A telomere.
• 23:48
  That's a good question.
• 23:49
  A telomere is let me find the actual definition because
• 23:52
  I am going to get it wrong.
• 23:54
  It is a compound structure at the end of a chromosome.
• 23:58
  So it's a structure inside of our nervous system that basically They
• 24:03
  protect our body from aging and they naturally unravel over time.
• 24:09
  But what, when you have chronic stress, they unravel more quickly.
• 24:13
  So it accelerates aging.
• 24:14
  It accelerates degeneration within your body.
• 24:16
  It accelerates the, you know, we, we have a natural degradation over
• 24:20
  time of our body as it copies itself.
• 24:22
  And we produce new cells.
• 24:23
  Each Xerox copy is a little bit less accurate, a little more fuzzy.
• 24:27
  But when, when.
• 24:29
  We have chronic stress.
• 24:30
  Those telomeres do, as I understand it, get shorter.
• 24:34
  How do we spell telomere?
• 24:36
  Telomere is TEL T-E-L-O-M-E-R.
• 24:43
  Rupert Isaacson: Etel.
• 24:43
  T-E-L-O-M-E-R-E?
• 24:46
  Yes.
• 24:46
  Telomere.
• 24:47
  Okay, cool.
• 24:48
  Interesting.
• 24:49
  All right.
• 24:49
  Yes.
• 24:50
  Something I didn't know.
• 24:50
  Okay, good.
• 24:52
  So by the way, just I have a quick question to clarify.
• 24:55
  You're saying that the ventral vagal nerve.
• 24:58
  is a one branch of the vagal nerve.
• 25:01
  But you see, I couldn't tell if you're talking about the dorsal as something
• 25:06
  that's not the vagal nerve, but surely are they not two branches of the same nerve?
• 25:11
  One is about feeling good, one is about feeling bad, effectively.
• 25:14
  Sukie Baxter: It's, yeah, I mean, yes, there are two branches of the same nerve.
• 25:18
  Okay.
• 25:18
  That's, that's the whole polyvagal, right?
• 25:20
  Multiple branches.
• 25:21
  Rupert Isaacson: And I've got one down the front, one down the back.
• 25:24
  In general, my front one is associated with feel good.
• 25:27
  In general, my back one is associated with not.
• 25:32
  Sukie Baxter: Yes.
• 25:33
  I, I'd say, I, I'm, I'm always hesitant to use the words good and bad.
• 25:38
  One is a little bit more pleasant and one is a little bit more unpleasant.
• 25:43
  Rupert Isaacson: But they're both there to, to serve the
• 25:45
  function to keep you alive.
• 25:46
  Sukie Baxter: And yeah, and, and, and I, I think it's really
• 25:49
  important to say that there's no.
• 25:50
  State of your nervous system.
• 25:51
  That's wrong or bad.
• 25:52
  And I think this is where like, I get a lot of people saying, well, I, I've done
• 25:56
  some work to heal my nervous system and I felt better for a short period of time.
• 26:00
  And then and then I, I felt anxious again, or I felt depressed again,
• 26:04
  or I felt whatever again or I felt lethargic or I felt exhausted.
• 26:08
  And this seems wrong.
• 26:10
  Like I I'm doing it wrong, or it isn't working or whatever.
• 26:13
  They're, you know, whatever they determine is the story around that.
• 26:16
  We need all of our nervous system states.
• 26:18
  We, they're there for a reason.
• 26:21
  And so the goal is not to get rid of any of these states or to live, you
• 26:24
  know, eternally in ventral vagal.
• 26:26
  That would be great.
• 26:27
  But when that lion comes around and you're in ventral vagal,
• 26:29
  you're gonna be like, hey, dude.
• 26:31
  Yeah, pretty kitty.
• 26:32
  Can I pet you?
• 26:33
  And you're gonna get eaten.
• 26:34
  Like we need our sympathetic response.
• 26:36
  We need these aspects of our nervous system.
• 26:39
  The goal isn't to get rid of them.
• 26:40
  The goal is just to not get
• 26:41
  Rupert Isaacson: stuck in them.
• 26:43
  Right.
• 26:43
  Got it.
• 26:44
  And as you say, you know, a shot of adrenaline, a shot of cortisol
• 26:49
  to make you act, not think, get yourself out of trouble.
• 26:52
  Sometimes that could even be fun if you enjoy a dangerous sport or something like
• 26:57
  that, but you don't want to live there.
• 26:59
  Why, apart from the unraveling of telomeres, And I also know that
• 27:04
  cortisol, the stress hormone, is a neurotoxin, so that obviously is
• 27:08
  toxic for the body over too much time.
• 27:12
  What else does stress do over time?
• 27:15
  You mentioned this word, friction, early on.
• 27:21
  Is it tied to that?
• 27:22
  Is stress tied to friction in the body?
• 27:26
  And is friction tied to this nervous system response?
• 27:30
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so this is where, this is I spent a lot of years trying
• 27:35
  to figure this out because we didn't have the information we have today.
• 27:39
  It's actually really funny to me to see how much body mind information is around
• 27:44
  right now, because for years and years, I was like, I think there's something
• 27:47
  going on with the body talking to the mind and people thought it was crazy.
• 27:50
  They were, they just like, they could not get there.
• 27:53
  And now it's, we take it for granted, I think by and large
• 27:56
  there's a collective understanding.
• 27:58
  And so when you ask about like.
• 28:00
  Stress and friction.
• 28:02
  1 of so our bodies are not these just machines that carry our brains around.
• 28:08
  They are expressing our state of being all the time.
• 28:12
  But they are also communicating inwardly to our brain.
• 28:16
  So the state of your body tells your brain something about what's going on for you.
• 28:20
  It tells you, it tells your it tells your brain.
• 28:23
  I'm safe.
• 28:23
  I'm not safe.
• 28:24
  At its essence.
• 28:25
  I'm either safe or I'm not safe.
• 28:26
  And that's
• 28:26
  Rupert Isaacson: what the brain needs to know moment to moment as a bottom line.
• 28:29
  Sukie Baxter: Correct.
• 28:30
  And that's how it determines your nervous system state.
• 28:32
  We don't choose our nervous system states.
• 28:34
  Our brain, it's in a non conscious process, assesses a whole bunch of data
• 28:39
  that it's getting beneath our awareness.
• 28:41
  And it then measures that with your past experience.
• 28:45
  Past experiences and any conditioning you may have and kind of, you get
• 28:49
  this, like, I think of it like a little computer printout, like, not safe, you
• 28:53
  know, so, and then there's like, someone pushes the panic button and that's your
• 28:56
  sympathetic nervous system or safe.
• 28:58
  And someone's like, okay, we can go into rest and digest.
• 29:00
  Let's get a good night's sleep at a very, very basic level.
• 29:04
  It's, it's more complex than that, but, but I just want to say, go ahead.
• 29:11
  So on the, on the question of like tension and stress and friction, if your body is
• 29:16
  tense, which is what happens when you're in sympathetic, then you're sort of in
• 29:20
  this like feedback loop where the tension in your body creates a lot of friction.
• 29:24
  You're having to use a lot more energy to literally move your body.
• 29:27
  Right?
• 29:28
  So, like, lifting your arm, you're actually pulling against yourself.
• 29:32
  You're actually, you're literally holding yourself back by having these
• 29:36
  tight muscles that create a joint that doesn't move in a free way, so you
• 29:40
  have to use more, you have to, you have to actually burn more calories
• 29:45
  in essence to move that arm because you're pulling against resistance,
• 29:49
  which is your own internal resistance.
• 29:51
  Rupert Isaacson: And presumably put more stress on the joints as well.
• 29:55
  the tendons and sinews to, yeah,
• 29:57
  Sukie Baxter: potentially, absolutely.
• 29:59
  And, and what I noticed in working with people is that we just tend to move
• 30:02
  in these very limited patterns, right?
• 30:04
  So we only move in ways that we habitually move in, which is because
• 30:09
  of the kind of environment we live in, usually fairly limited.
• 30:12
  So we get these very narrow pathways and anything outside that pathway
• 30:15
  becomes almost inaccessible, sometimes completely inaccessible.
• 30:19
  And then that limits the amount of sensory information that's sent to our brain and
• 30:22
  the sensory information that is sent to our brain is one of tension and stress,
• 30:26
  which then creates more tension and stress, which then sends more information
• 30:29
  about tension and stress, right?
• 30:31
  So it's, you're, you're getting this kind of loop, not safe
• 30:33
  you know, not safe information.
• 30:35
  Your brain's like, I'm not safe.
• 30:36
  Let's be tense.
• 30:36
  We got to be prepared for, to deal with this threat.
• 30:38
  Okay.
• 30:39
  But now we're getting more not safe information and it's just this cycle.
• 30:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 30:43
  So if I come to you with my tense shoulders but I'm.
• 30:48
  In a state of tension internally because I'm afraid of my neighbors because
• 30:55
  I'm reading a lot of negative social media stuff because I'm, I've been
• 31:01
  brought up in a, in a conflicty sort of a culture, household, blah, blah.
• 31:08
  And this has all been going on for so many years and I don't even know any different
• 31:12
  because I've just been raised that way.
• 31:14
  And I come to you and I say, Hey Suki can you work on my shoulder please?
• 31:17
  And.
• 31:19
  You start massaging me and that stays tense.
• 31:22
  And then you put your elbow on me and it stays tense.
• 31:24
  And then you and then I get up at the end of the thing and I'm still tense.
• 31:32
  Is is that the sort of experience of a client like that where you're going?
• 31:37
  Okay, look, something internally now needs to change.
• 31:41
  We need to understand what this stress response is.
• 31:44
  How do we, how do we guide this person internally?
• 31:48
  To release that stress in a way that's not external.
• 31:52
  No amount of, as you said, no amount of me backing my truck repeatedly over
• 31:56
  that guy's shoulder is going to release that shoulder, even though that's
• 32:01
  exactly what I'd be asking you to do.
• 32:03
  And then you have to charge me for wear and tear on the truck.
• 32:08
  I can see how you would come to need to do this research.
• 32:14
  When you then began to tell people in your practice about this, did
• 32:24
  you find that it made sense to them?
• 32:26
  Did you find that sometimes even perhaps hearing about this and understanding this
• 32:33
  mechanism within their own bodies, did you find that it helped them to release
• 32:39
  their stress without you necessarily having to manipulate physically?
• 32:45
  What was going on?
• 32:46
  Or at least, did you find that if you did manipulate physically once
• 32:49
  you gave them this information, they could release more meaningfully?
• 32:54
  To an extent.
• 32:55
  Sukie Baxter: I ultimately have moved away from doing hands on work because there
• 33:00
  is just so much that needs to happen.
• 33:02
  Like, you just described so well internally for a person in terms of
• 33:07
  them understanding their own physical body responses, life circumstances.
• 33:11
  And this is, it can be very complex, right?
• 33:13
  It's not, it's not a simple thing.
• 33:14
  There's a lot of circles of influence here that that combined to affect a person's,
• 33:19
  State internal state and not all of them are the fault of that person, right?
• 33:24
  We live within these systems as well.
• 33:25
  So there's there's personal stuff.
• 33:27
  There's cultural stuff.
• 33:28
  Anyway so I I moved away from doing the the hands on work because I found that
• 33:33
  the context of a bodywork session is So it's so entrenched in people's heads
• 33:39
  that i'm going to go in and basically deposit my body In the office of this
• 33:44
  person, my brain can go on vacation for a little while, thinking about
• 33:48
  whatever and this person will fix me and it, it works to, to an extent.
• 33:55
  the people who are available for it, for whatever reason, this is,
• 33:58
  this is not a judgment, right?
• 33:59
  It's because I, I do hear people say like, Oh, well, they just weren't ready for it.
• 34:03
  You know, and it's in sort of a judgmental way of like, Oh, this
• 34:06
  person is more evolved and more ready.
• 34:07
  That's not it at all.
• 34:09
  For whatever reason, a person is in the, in the state to be
• 34:11
  able to receive it and actually integrate that work and take it on.
• 34:14
  That's great.
• 34:15
  Other people aren't for whatever reason due to no fault of their own most likely.
• 34:20
  And And when people would come in, there was so much backing up I had
• 34:25
  to do to explain that your body and your brain are this integrated system.
• 34:30
  And that it's not just a muscle.
• 34:32
  It's this, this muscle that's tight in your shoulder is not just
• 34:34
  a rubber band that is too short.
• 34:36
  That needs to be pulled longer.
• 34:37
  Like, there's a whole culture in that muscle, as you just described, right?
• 34:43
  There's a whole belief system in your body.
• 34:45
  And there's a whole lifetime and actually multiple lifetimes because we,
• 34:49
  we take on a lot of these things from other generations, both from a genetic
• 34:52
  standpoint, but also from a just a mirroring and a learning standpoint.
• 34:56
  So there's, there's whole belief systems living in your body and my elbow in
• 35:00
  your shoulder may help if you're at that state where you're able to release
• 35:05
  this tension and integrate that.
• 35:07
  But if you are not.
• 35:08
  Then we could be here all day.
• 35:11
  It's, you know, you're, and you, most people do feel
• 35:13
  better at the end of a session.
• 35:14
  It's whether or not that work stays.
• 35:16
  Yeah.
• 35:16
  So my, my goal wasn't to have people come in every week for the rest of their lives.
• 35:19
  My goal was to actually help people get to where they want it to go.
• 35:22
  And I saw that for some people, the body work was the missing piece, but
• 35:26
  by and large, there was so much more education that needed to happen.
• 35:30
  And so I really transitioned into teaching this information and, and, and helpful
• 35:36
  tools to people so that they could start to integrate this in a different way.
• 35:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so now there you are, your livelihood is putting hands
• 35:44
  on people, so you actually rely on these people to come trooping into your studio
• 35:49
  so that you can pay rent and so on.
• 35:53
  And then you start thinking, oh gosh, you know, I've got to really
• 35:57
  tackle this in a different way.
• 36:00
  You go off and learn about the nervous system.
• 36:03
  And then there you are on YouTube with like 6 million, 5 million,
• 36:06
  4 million people looking at us.
• 36:09
  Was it that sudden?
• 36:11
  Dot, dot, dot?
• 36:12
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it was one of those overnight successes
• 36:14
  that took 20 years to get there.
• 36:16
  Oh good, I'm glad we can stop
• 36:16
  Rupert Isaacson: the podcast right here.
• 36:19
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it actually, that was a long journey because I, I was
• 36:24
  trying to teach this stuff forever.
• 36:26
  I've been trying to teach this stuff since like 2000.
• 36:28
  I mean, honestly, since the day I started my practice and I started figuring this
• 36:31
  out, I was trying to find the words.
• 36:33
  I was so very new and also so very young.
• 36:35
  I really didn't know how to, you know, how to convey this.
• 36:38
  It took a while to figure out what I Was even trying to say.
• 36:41
  So there was that journey of just getting proficient at what I was doing
• 36:45
  and having enough experience with putting my hands on people to be like,
• 36:48
  I think there's some patterns here.
• 36:50
  But then there was the experience of trying to explain what it was.
• 36:53
  I even did with people.
• 36:55
  So there was that segment of my journey, which as.
• 36:58
  As you've probably noticed in this podcast, it's not easy to quantify
• 37:01
  what, because a lot of this stuff is just not, it doesn't fit in the
• 37:03
  boxes we already have for body work and psychology and all of that.
• 37:07
  I was like, no, they're the same thing.
• 37:09
  You know, actually a body worker is a mental health practitioner.
• 37:11
  People were like, no, I have no idea what you're talking about.
• 37:14
  So there was that journey of kind of figuring out how to even talk about this.
• 37:18
  And then there was the journey of, Trying to share this, as you
• 37:22
  said, this was my livelihood.
• 37:23
  And so, you know, I would work with mentors and business mentors and people
• 37:26
  who were kind of helping me to get, you know, get the word out and talk to people.
• 37:31
  And how do I, how do I communicate this?
• 37:33
  And I had a lot of setbacks.
• 37:34
  I, I had a mentor who really said something very hurtful.
• 37:39
  Where I was trying to talk about, you know, the connection between
• 37:42
  pain and stress and the mind and the psychology and the culture
• 37:44
  and all of these different things.
• 37:46
  And I was pretty far into my nervous system journey at this point.
• 37:49
  And I was pretty sure that I was on to something, but I also didn't
• 37:52
  know of anyone else who was really talking about it at that time.
• 37:54
  So it was, it was, I felt like I was bumping into a wall a lot when I talk
• 37:58
  about it and this mentor said, well, I don't even know why a physical therapist
• 38:03
  is talking to me about my emotions.
• 38:04
  Why don't you just stick to telling people what height to
• 38:07
  set their computer monitor at?
• 38:09
  And I was so just distraught.
• 38:14
  And I just felt so much despair at that because for one that.
• 38:18
  It's just so it doesn't matter.
• 38:20
  It doesn't matter.
• 38:22
  If setting our computer monitors at the right height
• 38:25
  was the solution, we'd be fine.
• 38:27
  We wouldn't need this work, you know, because I think
• 38:29
  that information is out there.
• 38:30
  I think we can find that at this point.
• 38:32
  It's accessible.
• 38:33
  And what I wanted to do was so much more in my, you know, in my opinion,
• 38:37
  much more profound than that, which was really get to the core of people
• 38:40
  and really help them to live more self actualized lives not just.
• 38:44
  To eradicate the pain that they were feeling so they could go on living
• 38:47
  lives that they didn't really enjoy living in unhealthy ways, which is
• 38:51
  kind of what a lot of pain relief type.
• 38:54
  Practices do is like allows
• 38:56
  Rupert Isaacson: you to keep going with what's still hurting you.
• 38:58
  Sukie Baxter: Exactly.
• 38:59
  Exactly.
• 39:00
  Yeah It's it's basically it puts you on this spectrum of of pain to like numbness
• 39:05
  where it's like we don't we don't then replace the pain with joy or fulfillment
• 39:09
  or Desire or anything pleasant.
• 39:12
  Rupert Isaacson: We're just or even a way of of moving away
• 39:14
  from that pain towards something.
• 39:15
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  Yeah.
• 39:16
  Yeah Healing.
• 39:17
  Yeah.
• 39:17
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so so I was very distraught.
• 39:20
  I struggled for a long time I tried very hard to talk about posture
• 39:23
  in a very Posture y sort of way.
• 39:26
  And it Really didn't work.
• 39:28
  I, I wrote a book, a little ebook that I have.
• 39:31
  And I found myself like, I'm going to write this book about posture.
• 39:35
  And as I'm writing this book, I kept coming back to the nervous system
• 39:37
  and I was like, I can't do it.
• 39:39
  It's like, it's physically impossible.
• 39:41
  I can't talk about how to sit in a chair without talking about your nervous system.
• 39:45
  And so I, I had started putting things out on YouTube and I was kind of like
• 39:50
  dabbling in it here and there and when did
• 39:53
  Rupert Isaacson: you start messing around with YouTube?
• 39:55
  Sukie Baxter: So I actually put a couple videos out, like, way, way back in 2009
• 39:59
  and then I abandoned it for a very long time, like, a decade, and then I was like,
• 40:03
  maybe I'll go back to that YouTube thing maybe around 2018, I want to say, ish,
• 40:07
  and kind of was dabbling in it and then.
• 40:11
  I just sort of started to decide that I wanted to experiment a little bit.
• 40:16
  So I was like, I'm going to put out videos that are more on the nervous system side.
• 40:21
  I just, I need to get this out.
• 40:22
  I'm having these conversations one on one, like these conversations would
• 40:25
  come up with my body work clients.
• 40:26
  They would come up.
• 40:27
  While I was working on horses and I was talking to the owner about nervous
• 40:30
  systems and why I didn't need to pound on their horse to get actual change, why
• 40:34
  their horses movement would change with what looked like me, just kind of gently
• 40:38
  touching their, you know, their animal.
• 40:40
  And they're like, well, how is this, you know, how is this happening in
• 40:42
  their horse's eyes or, you know, doing that third eyelid blank and big
• 40:45
  yawns and, you know, signs of release.
• 40:48
  So these conversations were coming up over and over and I was like, I just want to,
• 40:52
  I want to try having this conversation, not on a quiet secret one to one level.
• 40:57
  But like, let's just try putting it out there more
• 41:00
  widely and it was an experiment.
• 41:02
  And I found that there actually was quite a lot of interest in that material.
• 41:09
  So, to my surprise, it was exactly what everyone told me not to talk about.
• 41:16
  Don't talk about the connection between the body and trauma and.
• 41:20
  anxiety and mental health and your physical self and all of
• 41:24
  these things that are connected.
• 41:26
  Don't do that.
• 41:26
  No one's going to understand it.
• 41:27
  And it was when I did that exact thing that everyone told me not to do, that
• 41:34
  it actually connected with people.
• 41:36
  Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting how many people on this podcast
• 41:40
  say something similar to that.
• 41:42
  It was when I did what everyone said not to do that things began to move.
• 41:49
  I, I know that's been true in my life.
• 41:53
  When I was going to go across Mongolia with my kid and everyone
• 41:55
  said he was completely nuts.
• 41:57
  And it's just in my gut, it's like, no, no, it's, it's the right thing,
• 41:59
  but I totally understand why you think it's nuts, because on the face of it,
• 42:03
  it is a bit nuts, but life is nuts.
• 42:05
  So, you know, I, that, that bold step it seems that perhaps your own sympathetic
• 42:12
  nervous system had gotten to a point where you were feeling maybe that you
• 42:17
  had Your foot on the brake and the accelerator at the same time just like
• 42:21
  these clients who were in distress with you were and Do you think it's true
• 42:29
  that you felt in some way even if that was instinctive and unconscious that?
• 42:35
  Until you sorted that out in yourself.
• 42:36
  You couldn't really help them in the way that you would like to And
• 42:44
  then that happened on a public forum Do you think that that was also
• 42:53
  part of what was motivating you?
• 42:56
  A sort of feeling of, well, physician heal thyself sort of thing.
• 43:00
  If I can't, how can I tell these people how to set
• 43:05
  themselves free from the inside?
• 43:06
  If I myself, I'm sort of feeling frustrated like this.
• 43:11
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah.
• 43:11
  If I'm not letting myself be who I am, then how can I tell
• 43:14
  other people how to do that?
• 43:16
  So, yeah, you know, there's a really great saying, and I don't
• 43:20
  know who originally said it.
• 43:21
  I'm sure it wasn't the person I heard it from.
• 43:24
  But it's don't talk about it, be about it.
• 43:27
  And I, I really, I find it That was God,
• 43:30
  Rupert Isaacson: wasn't that God?
• 43:31
  Didn't God say that?
• 43:32
  I have no idea,
• 43:33
  Sukie Baxter: possibly.
• 43:34
  But I think that I had to be, you know, be that example.
• 43:38
  I had to go out and do the thing and it was, it was really terrifying.
• 43:41
  I, you know, I get a calm, I get lots of comments on YouTube
• 43:44
  because YouTube is YouTube.
• 43:45
  Many, many, many, many wonderful positive comments.
• 43:48
  And I love those.
• 43:48
  But of course, as many people do, I see the negative ones and
• 43:51
  they hit me more intensely than.
• 43:55
  The positive ones.
• 43:56
  Rupert Isaacson: The old sympathetic nervous system reaction.
• 43:58
  Sukie Baxter: Looking for those threats.
• 44:00
  And one of the comments that I get that does make me laugh is people say, well,
• 44:03
  she really likes to hear herself talk.
• 44:05
  And I just, I always chuckle to myself because the reality is I hate
• 44:09
  watching those videos of myself.
• 44:10
  I don't actually love being the center of attention.
• 44:13
  I don't love a big crowd around me.
• 44:16
  I'm kind of a, like not a hermit, but I'm, I'm an introvert.
• 44:19
  I, you know, I, I'm not somebody to go in and.
• 44:22
  You know, take over a party or something.
• 44:24
  And so it was hard to get out there and start talking about this stuff,
• 44:28
  especially at a time where it really wasn't like, so this is about 4 years ago.
• 44:33
  Now that I really started talking about this.
• 44:35
  I've been talking about it for like, 10 years or more, but that I really kind of
• 44:40
  was like, okay, I'm going to do the thing.
• 44:42
  It was about four years ago and things have dramatically changed.
• 44:45
  There's so much more content out there.
• 44:47
  That's really similar in tone and, you know, and in material, like where we're
• 44:51
  talking about how the body and the mind are interconnected and related.
• 44:55
  But at that time, no one was really talking about it.
• 44:58
  And I didn't know if everyone was going to tell me I was crazy.
• 45:02
  I mean, I could have made those YouTube videos and we could be sitting here and
• 45:05
  like three people could have watched them.
• 45:07
  I have no idea.
• 45:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Were you surprised by how many people flocked to them?
• 45:14
  And why do you think they did?
• 45:15
  Sukie Baxter: Well, I think it's a combination of things.
• 45:17
  I think one, the timing was right because it was in the middle of the pandemic.
• 45:21
  So we were all very stressed and people were looking for help and
• 45:24
  we didn't have a lot of resources because we couldn't go to our, you
• 45:26
  know, I mean, you could get therapy.
• 45:28
  From zoom, but you couldn't go to your therapist.
• 45:30
  You couldn't go to your massage therapist by and large.
• 45:33
  There was a lot of, you know, things were shut down or very
• 45:35
  limited staffing was very low.
• 45:37
  Everyone was, you know, freaking out.
• 45:38
  It was a huge pattern interrupt.
• 45:40
  You know, our whole lives got turned upside down.
• 45:42
  And I was no exception to that, but so, so people were looking for resources.
• 45:47
  So that was 1 thing, but you, you mentioned, I think, at the beginning
• 45:51
  that your content can be good.
• 45:53
  And then people don't see it, right?
• 45:55
  So you can have really great videos and there are people who
• 45:57
  have really great videos out there, but no one's watched them.
• 46:00
  And the reasoning is that there are ways to figure out what people are
• 46:05
  looking for and position your video so that it's the thing that they
• 46:09
  find when they're looking for it.
• 46:11
  And I was able to, to do that.
• 46:13
  And I, Thanks.
• 46:14
  You know, I, I did it strategically and I was fortunate in that.
• 46:17
  I happened to land on some things that people were actually
• 46:20
  looking for at that time.
• 46:22
  So it, it kind of
• 46:23
  Rupert Isaacson: blew up.
• 46:24
  So you say you did it strategically.
• 46:25
  Did you do it strategically from the get go?
• 46:28
  Like, did you sit there I looked at a wiki of Mr.
• 46:31
  Beast the other day and if you don't know who Mr.
• 46:33
  Beast is these days, I mean, you're probably, like, one of three
• 46:37
  on the planet, but nonetheless, if you don't know who Mr.
• 46:39
  Beast is, he's this incredibly successful YouTuber who has made billions and
• 46:44
  given a lot of it away, actually.
• 46:46
  Planted lots of trees and things.
• 46:47
  And I remember him reading this thing where he said, I sat for five years in a
• 46:51
  room eating Uber Eats, only figuring out, learning how to make videos go viral.
• 46:57
  I became obsessed with it in an unhealthy way, but it sort of paid off.
• 47:00
  That's what he said.
• 47:01
  Did you do something like that?
• 47:02
  Or did you just start putting stuff out there that you were interested
• 47:07
  in and thought other people should mention or was it something in between?
• 47:11
  Sukie Baxter: It was a little bit in between.
• 47:13
  I had a strategy of I'm going to, I'm going to put different
• 47:16
  things out and see what hits.
• 47:17
  So I would make videos on different topics because I didn't know what
• 47:21
  people were gravitating towards.
• 47:22
  So, I would do some research and there, there are ways.
• 47:25
  So there are tools.
• 47:26
  If I think people don't know that these things exist, there are tools.
• 47:29
  That will tell you what people are searching for on Google and
• 47:32
  YouTube is a Google product.
• 47:34
  So there are tools to, to become aware of, like, how many people are
• 47:37
  looking for a term on, you know, on social media or on Google and that
• 47:44
  tells you what the interest level is.
• 47:45
  And then there are.
• 47:47
  People who figured out ways to name your video.
• 47:51
  Well, so basically there's, there's lots of elements, but like the title is one of
• 47:54
  them and there's other elements as well to position your video in a way that YouTube
• 47:58
  knows Hey, when someone's searching for this thing, this video is kind of like,
• 48:02
  I can, I can do the matchmaker here.
• 48:04
  Like I can, I can give them.
• 48:06
  This video content, because that's what they're looking for.
• 48:10
  Now, if your video is terrible or like you spend, you know, five minutes of
• 48:13
  rambling on maybe the last part of your video is great, but five minutes
• 48:16
  at the beginning, are you rambling on about something irrelevant?
• 48:19
  People aren't going to watch it.
• 48:20
  And YouTube's going to be like, ah, that didn't work.
• 48:22
  Let's try it.
• 48:22
  Let's serve them up a different video.
• 48:24
  Right?
• 48:25
  So there there's lots of elements here.
• 48:27
  But there are ways to be strategic about when you make your video, making
• 48:31
  sure that you're actually creating a resource that people are looking for.
• 48:35
  So I, I was looking to balance that when I would do my research.
• 48:38
  I was like, okay, I have something I want to share.
• 48:41
  How does it match with what people are looking for?
• 48:44
  What's the Venn diagram here?
• 48:46
  And you
• 48:46
  Rupert Isaacson: did that from the get go.
• 48:47
  You, you, you thought, I actually want this to go out as wide as possible.
• 48:53
  I'm going to research how to make a video go out as wide as possible
• 48:57
  on YouTube before I make it.
• 48:59
  Sukie Baxter: Not exactly.
• 49:00
  I didn't really want it to go out as wide as possible.
• 49:03
  I wanted people to see it.
• 49:04
  I wanted to know, you know, I thought, I thought a few hundred people, maybe
• 49:07
  a few thousand people would watch it.
• 49:10
  I didn't think, you know, 5 million people would
• 49:13
  Rupert Isaacson: watch a video.
• 49:14
  Why do you think 5 million people did watch
• 49:15
  Sukie Baxter: it?
• 49:16
  Because it was the thing they were looking for and because they watched
• 49:20
  because of the way so I I actually worked with mentors like so when
• 49:23
  I want to learn something, I find a mentor and I learn it from them.
• 49:25
  And this is true in every area of my life.
• 49:27
  I go find somebody and learn.
• 49:28
  I'm like way past the point.
• 49:30
  Well, I still read books, but I'm way past the point of self study at this point.
• 49:34
  I want to learn something.
• 49:35
  I'm like, you seem to know what you're doing.
• 49:36
  Teach me.
• 49:38
  So I found people who are really good at YouTube.
• 49:40
  And they taught me us.
• 49:42
  How did you find them?
• 49:43
  They use, how did you find them?
• 49:44
  They, they were a referral from somebody else that I knew, from somebody else.
• 49:48
  Like I So you
• 49:49
  Rupert Isaacson: did, you know some people who, who had been successful on YouTube
• 49:52
  and say, who do you, who would I talk
• 49:54
  Sukie Baxter: to?
• 49:54
  They, they were, they are successful.
• 49:57
  The people that I followed, I liked their ethos.
• 50:00
  I, I like them as people, there's lots of
• 50:03
  Rupert Isaacson: people that you were, you were subscribing to their YouTube channel.
• 50:07
  Sukie Baxter: Actually I wasn't.
• 50:08
  They were, I was referred to them, so I had not subscribed to their channel.
• 50:13
  I was referred to them by a, it was somebody in another community of creators
• 50:21
  and business people that they were like, this is, it was somebody else.
• 50:25
  In that community had done YouTube had taught YouTube previously and doesn't
• 50:29
  anymore and they were like, this is the person I send people to now and I went
• 50:33
  Rupert Isaacson: online or this was someone you knew in your up there in the
• 50:37
  Pacific Northwest where you live where
• 50:38
  Sukie Baxter: people go online.
• 50:40
  Okay, it's all online.
• 50:40
  Yeah, it's an online community.
• 50:42
  Okay,
• 50:42
  Rupert Isaacson: so you joined an online community of people
• 50:47
  interested in creating videos around.
• 50:51
  the subjects that you were interested in or was it some different online community?
• 50:55
  Sukie Baxter: It was a different online community.
• 50:56
  It was a more of like a business online community where people
• 50:59
  who have who have businesses get together and share resources and
• 51:03
  information and help each other out with, you know, I need to do this.
• 51:07
  I need to do X, Y, Z thing.
• 51:08
  What tools do I use or who knows somebody I can hire to
• 51:11
  do this, that kind of a thing.
• 51:13
  Is that still exist?
• 51:15
  Rupert Isaacson: Oh, yeah.
• 51:16
  What's it?
• 51:16
  What's it called?
• 51:18
  Sukie Baxter: It's somebody's private community, so I wouldn't necessarily share
• 51:21
  it, but I've been a member of many, many, many, I've always, but you must've found
• 51:26
  Rupert Isaacson: your way there somehow, right?
• 51:28
  So how did you, if someone's listening and going, well, gosh, I would like
• 51:32
  to become, you know, part of a mentor community like that, a mentoring community
• 51:37
  like that, what would be the steps that they would need to take in order to
• 51:40
  find their way to something like that?
• 51:42
  Sukie Baxter: That's a, that's a really good question.
• 51:44
  And the reason I'm so hesitant to say more is because the online
• 51:48
  community, the online business coaching and mentoring community is
• 51:53
  it's a bit of a minefield to navigate.
• 51:55
  There's a lot of really manipulative practices that happen in that space.
• 52:01
  There's a lot of people calling that out right now too.
• 52:03
  So there's some really good conversations.
• 52:05
  But like you, you can, on the internet, you can find a business coach and like.
• 52:11
  So, so they're, they're out there.
• 52:13
  It's just that,
• 52:14
  Rupert Isaacson: so what's the, well, let's, let's stick around on this topic.
• 52:19
  Cause it's, I think it's useful for people.
• 52:22
  There'll be people driving their cars right now that want to do this.
• 52:24
  And, but don't know how if you were to, what, what, what would be the.
• 52:31
  Way to know if it's a good business coach, what would be your test questions?
• 52:35
  For example, i'll give you people often ask me about two things that they'll say
• 52:39
  to me because you know, I teach dressage with Horses and so people will say how do
• 52:43
  I know if it's a good dressage teacher and i'll say well There's two test questions.
• 52:48
  How do you teach your horse?
• 52:50
  The language is important piaf, which is a particular movement that's important in
• 52:54
  that thing, and they must be able to tell you in a more or less understandable way.
• 53:00
  And can I ride him?
• 53:02
  Meaning, can I sit on him?
• 53:03
  Have you got a horse that can show me?
• 53:05
  And if the answer is something vague and no, you need to keep going until you find
• 53:09
  someone who says, Oh, I did it like this.
• 53:11
  And yes, you can.
• 53:11
  He's over here.
• 53:12
  Similarly, people know my background with, you know, shamans and healing.
• 53:17
  And they say, well, how do you, how do you find your way?
• 53:19
  Not, you know, how do you not get Involved with the charlatan and I'll say,
• 53:23
  well, usually the really good shamans are in very remote areas of the world.
• 53:29
  And they're so busy healing their communities.
• 53:32
  You, you wouldn't necessarily, you wouldn't find them online.
• 53:35
  But what I often do if I'm going to a place where there's places, parts
• 53:39
  of the world where I just know the people because I was partly brought
• 53:42
  up there and partly because of my work with journalism and human rights.
• 53:46
  And then I might.
• 53:48
  Actually give someone a contact but let's say I need to go to a part of
• 53:52
  the world where I don't know anybody I take a counterintuitive process.
• 53:56
  I will often contact a Listen up guys if you're looking for a shaman I will often
• 54:00
  contact a hospital or a clinic in a remote tribal area Like let's say I wanted to
• 54:08
  go up to alaska and find a healer I would look for a hospital in a native american
• 54:13
  reservation up there and I would contact The administrator and I would say by email
• 54:20
  and I'd send an email saying have you got a funny old guy or a funny old lady
• 54:24
  who comes on the wards from the local community and does odd things and the
• 54:29
  people just seem to sort of get better.
• 54:31
  And frequently I'll get a response from the hospital
• 54:34
  administrator saying actually yes.
• 54:36
  I mean sometimes they won't come back to me at all.
• 54:38
  Sometimes they'll tell me to bugger off but sometimes they'll say actually yes.
• 54:42
  And then I'll say, oh, and then we'll begin a conversation and I'll
• 54:45
  find my way to something that way, but there's a sort of step by step
• 54:50
  onion peeling back thing happening.
• 54:54
  So if someone is wanting to find their way through that minefield that
• 54:58
  you're talking about what do you think would be some sound steps for them to
• 55:01
  follow and questions for them to ask?
• 55:04
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I don't think it's a straight at least I haven't figured
• 55:07
  out is a straight ahead way for them to figure it out as clear as that.
• 55:13
  I think that it can be really helpful to speak to their students.
• 55:18
  I personally, if I'm looking at someone, I will kind of stalk
• 55:23
  their social media for a while.
• 55:25
  I like to look at the testimonials on their pages and then Google those people
• 55:30
  and go and, and kind of investigate like what those people are up to.
• 55:34
  Mm-Hmm.
• 55:34
  , in particular to find out like, you know, are, are all of their
• 55:38
  clients kind of the same , you know, are they all doing the same thing?
• 55:42
  Yeah.
• 55:42
  And then one of the biggest things is if you come across a business
• 55:45
  coach who has a lot of clients who are also business coaches.
• 55:49
  And everyone's kind of teaching people how to make money.
• 55:52
  That's a big red flag.
• 55:53
  Because there's sort of this weird, it's not MLM, but it's MLM like.
• 55:57
  It's a bit MLM y.
• 55:58
  Yeah.
• 55:58
  Yeah.
• 55:58
  Where it's like somebody who wasn't, wasn't very successful often.
• 56:03
  Not always.
• 56:04
  Sounds
• 56:05
  Rupert Isaacson: like a midlife rapper.
• 56:05
  Sorry.
• 56:06
  Sukie Baxter: Somebody who wasn't maybe that great at building their own, you
• 56:09
  know, business then decides to teach other people how to build their businesses.
• 56:13
  But the only thing they really know how to do is how to teach people how to
• 56:15
  teach people how to build businesses.
• 56:17
  So then their clients start to teach people how to make money too.
• 56:21
  And it just becomes like, everyone's almost saying the same thing.
• 56:23
  So if you, if you start looking around somebody's, you know,
• 56:26
  business and at their clients, and it seems like a big echo chamber and
• 56:29
  everyone's kind of saying the same.
• 56:31
  thing in that regard, then that's, it's not necessarily a
• 56:36
  solid no, but it's a red flag.
• 56:38
  And then for me, I am at this point in my work, really intentional about
• 56:43
  choosing people who acknowledge the systems in which we live.
• 56:47
  So I will not work with people who have this sort of ethos of like,
• 56:52
  if you just change your thoughts, the whole, you know, like all of
• 56:55
  your problems are in your thoughts.
• 56:57
  Because that's just simply not true.
• 56:58
  We, you know, there are limitations and, and situations
• 57:01
  that people find themselves in.
• 57:02
  There's, there's all kinds of things that happen to people.
• 57:05
  There's all kinds of different circumstances that people find themselves
• 57:07
  in that mean that their resources and ability to do something are important.
• 57:12
  You know, different than somebody else's.
• 57:14
  So if someone just has this sort of like, well, if you have
• 57:16
  problems, it's all in your thoughts and you just need to journal.
• 57:19
  It's not for me at this point.
• 57:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 57:22
  So, you through these researchers, you found your way to some mentors.
• 57:28
  What if you were mentoring the listeners now, what is the way that
• 57:35
  you create a title for your YouTube video that will position it, as
• 57:41
  you said, in a way that people have a sporting chance of finding it.
• 57:47
  Sukie Baxter: So there is something called search engine optimization.
• 57:52
  It's been around for a long time.
• 57:53
  It's not new.
• 57:54
  It's been around since Google has been around.
• 57:56
  Basically it is figuring out what people are searching for on Google.
• 58:01
  It's people don't lie to Google, right?
• 58:03
  So they type their actual questions into the search bar.
• 58:06
  And the funny thing is that a lot of people have the exact same question
• 58:08
  and they type it in the same way.
• 58:10
  Okay, and so there are tools that that you can use, as I mentioned to know how many
• 58:15
  people are searching for these things.
• 58:16
  So the 1st thing that I do is I try to figure out.
• 58:19
  I might have an idea, a general concept for a video.
• 58:23
  Okay, so I'm going to take that general concept and I'm going to go
• 58:26
  look at Google to see what are the questions that people are actually
• 58:29
  asking about this, and then I will use that information to craft a title.
• 58:35
  There's no guarantee.
• 58:37
  Right.
• 58:37
  We none of us actually knows what the algorithm is that YouTube uses.
• 58:40
  So you might have what seems like a bang up title and it doesn't get picked
• 58:44
  up or sometimes it doesn't get picked up for three months or six months.
• 58:47
  And then all of a sudden it just.
• 58:48
  That's where it starts.
• 58:56
  And then, then from there, once you've got your title, you want to take
• 59:02
  into account the related questions that people are asking about that
• 59:05
  and make sure you incorporate that into the actual body of the video.
• 59:09
  So the things you're saying, So, some of my videos, I literally write them out.
• 59:13
  a script word for word and say them because I can't necessarily think
• 59:17
  when a camera is pointed at me so it's helpful for me to just have it there.
• 59:20
  Sometimes I will do bullet points and I will, I will present that way.
• 59:25
  But in all, whether I do bullet points or script it word for word, I'm making
• 59:29
  sure that the way that I've structured the outline of this video is to answer
• 59:33
  the kinds of questions that people have.
• 59:35
  And that doesn't mean That I won't say something like, well, people ask this
• 59:39
  question and actually I want to say, I want to tell you why that question is
• 59:42
  not helpful, or I want to tell you why we need to be asking a different question,
• 59:45
  because if you understand this, then it changes the way you understand the
• 59:48
  whole challenge or something like that.
• 59:50
  But I want to address the fact that people have that question so that
• 59:53
  they're, they're getting their, they're getting the resource they need.
• 59:57
  Rupert Isaacson: What is the tool?
• 59:58
  What are, what are these search engine optimization tools that people can access?
• 1:00:03
  Sukie Baxter: The two that I use are key.
• 1:00:05
  Is it keywords anywhere or keywords everywhere?
• 1:00:07
  I think it's keywords everywhere.
• 1:00:08
  Let me make sure.
• 1:00:12
  Keywords everywhere.
• 1:00:13
  Keywords everywhere.
• 1:00:15
  Interesting.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah.
• 1:00:15
  Okay.
• 1:00:16
  Keywords everywhere.
• 1:00:16
  It's a plugin.
• 1:00:17
  I believe it only works on Chrome.
• 1:00:20
  And the other one that I use is called Tube Buddy.
• 1:00:24
  They're both very affordable tools.
• 1:00:26
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:00:27
  Why those two?
• 1:00:28
  I'm, I'm sure there's other tools out there.
• 1:00:30
  What is it about those two that works better than the others
• 1:00:34
  Sukie Baxter: that you found?
• 1:00:34
  Well, Keywords Everywhere tells you, it gives you psychic abilities.
• 1:00:38
  It tells you how many people are searching for something.
• 1:00:41
  You can use it on YouTube.
• 1:00:42
  You can use it on Google.
• 1:00:43
  It does cost it does cost a little bit of money to, you know, every time you
• 1:00:46
  do a search, it'll give you these little numbers next to your search term that tell
• 1:00:50
  you how many people are searching for it.
• 1:00:52
  And every time you do that, it costs you a little bit of money, but
• 1:00:54
  it's, it's so, I mean, I think it was like, I don't know, 20 bucks.
• 1:00:59
  And I've been using it for like a year or something.
• 1:01:00
  It's not, I don't remember exactly, but it's really affordable.
• 1:01:04
  But I, I turn it off when I'm not using it just so I'm not running down my credits.
• 1:01:08
  And then TubeBuddy, I don't use as much.
• 1:01:10
  I use keywords everywhere more.
• 1:01:12
  TubeBuddy has a bunch of tools that you can use that will allow you to
• 1:01:15
  see comparisons with other channels.
• 1:01:18
  So if you have somebody who's like got a similar channel, you
• 1:01:20
  can see like how their videos are performing compared to yours.
• 1:01:22
  It gives you some.
• 1:01:24
  Weighted search predictions.
• 1:01:25
  So like when you're popping a title into youtube, like maybe i'm
• 1:01:27
  going to consider this title It'll kind of tell you for your channel.
• 1:01:30
  We think this is a really good one It gives you data like how many
• 1:01:33
  other videos are in that search?
• 1:01:35
  So you kind of know what your competition is So it just it gives
• 1:01:38
  these two tools Between the two you get enough data to be able to make
• 1:01:41
  an educated guess about a solid title
• 1:01:44
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, this is really useful.
• 1:01:46
  So, okay, so you are Putting out this content through the pandemic about the
• 1:01:52
  nervous system and stress and what people can do, what, apart from understanding
• 1:01:58
  They're vagal reactions to things.
• 1:02:01
  How, what, what tools are you giving them in these videos that you're
• 1:02:06
  putting out back then that are like the 1, 2, 3 steps that people can take?
• 1:02:11
  And it, if you are someone, again listening to this podcast right
• 1:02:14
  now, you're driving, you're feeling stressed, you've got adrenaline and
• 1:02:18
  cortisol waring around in you, you feel your sympathetic nervous system
• 1:02:21
  even is not being sympathetic to you.
• 1:02:23
  , I dunno why it's called sympathetic when it seems to behave so unsympathetically.
• 1:02:27
  But there you go.
• 1:02:28
  What's your 1 2 3 that any of us should do to begin to bring our
• 1:02:36
  nervous systems back into a sort of a coherent state when we're all jangled?
• 1:02:41
  What's, what do we, what do we need to know?
• 1:02:44
  Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Sukie Baxter: Well, the information in the YouTube videos is a lot of
• 1:02:48
  education because as I mentioned, a lot of times people are just asking
• 1:02:51
  through no fault of their own, but people are asking the wrong questions
• 1:02:54
  simply because of the way that we've been taught to conceptualize ourselves
• 1:02:57
  as like this sort of disembodied brain that, that is, you know, this is where
• 1:03:01
  we live is like in our brain over here.
• 1:03:03
  What's the wrong
• 1:03:04
  Rupert Isaacson: question?
• 1:03:04
  Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  What's an example of a wrong question that I might ask?
• 1:03:07
  Sukie Baxter: What's the best way to stretch my hamstrings?
• 1:03:10
  Okay.
• 1:03:11
  Right.
• 1:03:11
  Because How many people stretch their hamstrings every day and get marginal
• 1:03:16
  or no, you know, maybe you get some, some benefits to an extent, but then
• 1:03:20
  you hit this wall and that they, you know, you never get beyond that.
• 1:03:22
  Right.
• 1:03:22
  So, so then the education has to happen around understanding that.
• 1:03:27
  It's not that your hamstring muscles are physically too short, it's that
• 1:03:30
  your brain is literally sending a signal to your hamstrings to contract them to
• 1:03:35
  protect you from going into a range of motion where you don't have control.
• 1:03:39
  Why is it sending that signal?
• 1:03:40
  Well, that's the million dollar question.
• 1:03:41
  Could be a simple physical issue that you don't have enough strength and
• 1:03:44
  mobility, or it could be that you have a trauma response in your body that
• 1:03:46
  you've been living in sympathetic, so you're gripping and protecting.
• 1:03:48
  I mean, there's so many different things.
• 1:03:50
  Why are you living in sympathetic?
• 1:03:51
  And this, this is what got me out of body work because I was
• 1:03:53
  like, this is, it's a rabbit hole.
• 1:03:55
  You know, I would say.
• 1:03:56
  This is not
• 1:03:56
  Rupert Isaacson: a conversation.
• 1:03:57
  Yeah, but that actually was a very nice one, two, three that you just said.
• 1:04:00
  So you got, okay, why are my hamstrings tight?
• 1:04:04
  Because I've been stretching them every day.
• 1:04:06
  Is it because my body thinks I'm not safe if I do that?
• 1:04:10
  If it thinks I'm not safe and, and contracts when I do that,
• 1:04:14
  why does it think I'm not safe?
• 1:04:16
  Well, that is a very good one, two, three.
• 1:04:19
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:20
  Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  Why?
• 1:04:22
  Why does my body think it's unsafe when I do that?
• 1:04:24
  Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  And surely just giving.
• 1:04:26
  Attention to that question is going to set me on a road towards asking
• 1:04:33
  my brain, well, is it possible that I might be safe in that?
• 1:04:38
  And then might my brain then begin to say, alright, well I'll let you stretch
• 1:04:42
  a little way to find out Mm-Hmm, . So it would is posing the, is it, it is funny.
• 1:04:49
  Is it, is it like the algorithm of your brain is posing the
• 1:04:52
  right question to your brain?
• 1:04:54
  One of the.
• 1:04:55
  Like keywords everywhere.
• 1:04:56
  Is it one of the secrets of unlocking the nervous system?
• 1:05:01
  Which is interesting because that does bring one back to
• 1:05:03
  the thoughts create things.
• 1:05:06
  Or changing your thoughts, but it's, but in ways that are thoughtful, I suppose.
• 1:05:13
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, thoughts are sensory information, right?
• 1:05:16
  So like, I think, I think we need to, we need to downgrade thoughts
• 1:05:20
  from like this exalted thing up here.
• 1:05:22
  That's like, we've got thoughts and then we've got all this sensory info.
• 1:05:24
  They're just part of it.
• 1:05:25
  Right.
• 1:05:25
  So it's not that having a positive mindset isn't helpful, right?
• 1:05:29
  Like if you're walking around telling yourself horrible things all the time
• 1:05:32
  and beating yourself up in your head.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah.
• 1:05:34
  That is bad.
• 1:05:35
  Which a
• 1:05:35
  Rupert Isaacson: lot of us are, by the way.
• 1:05:37
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah.
• 1:05:37
  Right.
• 1:05:38
  But also.
• 1:05:39
  Oftentimes we will try to change our thoughts and and struggle with that
• 1:05:44
  because our bodies are in this sympathetic state and we feel unsafe and the brain
• 1:05:48
  Rupert Isaacson: calls bullshit on us and says, no, I'm going
• 1:05:50
  to keep that relationship.
• 1:05:51
  Right.
• 1:05:51
  Sukie Baxter: Right.
• 1:05:51
  Exactly.
• 1:05:52
  And so if you change that state through these other sensory processes,
• 1:05:55
  it then unlocks the ability.
• 1:05:58
  I mean, this is.
• 1:05:58
  This sounds very similar to when I hear you talk about the unlocking the
• 1:06:01
  learning centers and autism, right?
• 1:06:03
  It's like when we change the state of the body, it sort of opens up the
• 1:06:06
  mind to be receptive to new thoughts.
• 1:06:09
  Right?
• 1:06:09
  So it's, it's not that that piece is wrong or bad.
• 1:06:11
  It's just that you can't sit, you can't suppress negativity.
• 1:06:15
  You can't sit around being like, I'm not anxious.
• 1:06:17
  Everything's fine.
• 1:06:18
  You know, I am happy and well, and everything is perfect.
• 1:06:21
  And then your body's like, no, like, a lion basically has its
• 1:06:26
  teeth around your shoulder, like, we're gonna die any moment.
• 1:06:28
  You know what I mean?
• 1:06:29
  It's, it's conflicting.
• 1:06:30
  And then even that conflict, I think, makes us feel even less safe, because
• 1:06:33
  your, your thoughts are telling you one thing, you're biased, and
• 1:06:35
  then you're another, your brain's like, I don't know what the truth
• 1:06:37
  is, but this does not feel okay to
• 1:06:38
  Rupert Isaacson: me.
• 1:06:41
  Right.
• 1:06:41
  Okay.
• 1:06:42
  So, you've got to pose a question as to why your brain is saying
• 1:06:50
  that something is unsafe.
• 1:06:53
  When?
• 1:06:55
  All evidence suggests that, say, bending down to pick something up off
• 1:07:00
  the floor, hence the hamstring stretch.
• 1:07:04
  is actually okay.
• 1:07:06
  There is no elephant charging at you currently while you do it.
• 1:07:09
  So if I can tell my, ask my brain, why am I having this response?
• 1:07:16
  Do you think that there's a value?
• 1:07:18
  Do you think the nervous system responds to when we begin to pose questions to it?
• 1:07:24
  Because let's just, let's also assume that the brain is an extension
• 1:07:27
  of the nervous system, right?
• 1:07:28
  It's receiving information from the nervous system.
• 1:07:30
  So it's connected.
• 1:07:32
  Is posing that question going to automatically set the nervous system
• 1:07:37
  going along some more functional pathways,
• 1:07:42
  Sukie Baxter: perhaps?
• 1:07:42
  I think it can.
• 1:07:44
  I think it's the start.
• 1:07:45
  I think it opens the door.
• 1:07:47
  Okay.
• 1:07:47
  Right.
• 1:07:47
  So now if we understand that this is a safety issue and
• 1:07:50
  not a tight rubber band issue.
• 1:07:53
  It, it completely transforms the way we then approach it.
• 1:07:55
  Now we can be curious.
• 1:07:57
  Right.
• 1:07:57
  And I'm
• 1:07:57
  Rupert Isaacson: acknowledging that I am feeling this, right?
• 1:07:59
  I'm not denying that I'm feeling this.
• 1:08:01
  Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  Sukie Baxter: Okay.
• 1:08:02
  Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  No, no, absolutely.
• 1:08:04
  And that's, that's a really important thing is that like when people are feeling
• 1:08:06
  tightness or pain, sometimes they get, you know, especially when you go and
• 1:08:09
  you get medically evaluated and they take all these images and they're like,
• 1:08:12
  well, we can't find any reason for this.
• 1:08:14
  You must be cracking up.
• 1:08:15
  And they don't usually say it like that, but that's the, the impact
• 1:08:18
  of what they say is like, well, you should go see a psychologist.
• 1:08:20
  Cause we can't find anything wrong.
• 1:08:21
  And I've had many a client come to me and be like, like kind of secretly
• 1:08:25
  thinking maybe they're going crazy because there's no reason for this pain.
• 1:08:29
  So maybe it's not real and they're making it up.
• 1:08:31
  No, it's absolutely real.
• 1:08:33
  Your anxiety is absolutely real.
• 1:08:34
  Even if there's no reason for it.
• 1:08:37
  What you are experiencing is completely real.
• 1:08:40
  But like, like you said, you know, I'm gonna ask, okay, so
• 1:08:42
  why am I experiencing this?
• 1:08:44
  What is the lack of safety about it?
• 1:08:45
  Whether it's anxiety, which is just, I don't feel safe.
• 1:08:49
  I think something bad is going to happen in the next moment.
• 1:08:52
  That's what the brain is saying, that you may not consciously think that,
• 1:08:54
  but non-consciously your brain's like, I feel like I may die at any moment.
• 1:08:59
  Mm-Hmm, , or a hamstring stretch, or, you know, lifting your arm,
• 1:09:03
  turning your, turning your head.
• 1:09:05
  Then we can be curious.
• 1:09:06
  It's about, you know, well, well, what if we change the
• 1:09:09
  Rupert Isaacson: context?
• 1:09:10
  Well, that is, I think what I'm, was feeling my way towards there.
• 1:09:15
  Thank you for saying curious.
• 1:09:17
  So when we're working, for example, with learning receptors in the brain, with
• 1:09:25
  what I do with autism and learning with, with movement method, one of the things
• 1:09:28
  that we know is that the, the curious brain is actually the happy brain.
• 1:09:34
  You, you can't learn in a state of great distress, not really.
• 1:09:40
  And, but when you're in your seeking, hunting brain, you're like, Ooh,
• 1:09:45
  I don't know what's over there.
• 1:09:46
  You're curious brain.
• 1:09:48
  It's an, it's an automatic happy state and it's also a a learning state.
• 1:09:56
  We're curious monkeys.
• 1:09:57
  We like to learn.
• 1:10:00
  So again, that thing about posing questions, becoming
• 1:10:03
  curious rather than resistant.
• 1:10:05
  Like I've got this.
• 1:10:07
  Pain, painful shoulder and I want it gone.
• 1:10:09
  I want to resist this.
• 1:10:10
  I want it gone.
• 1:10:10
  I want it out I want to kill it.
• 1:10:12
  I want to I want to slay that dragon or Dragons are sort of interesting.
• 1:10:20
  Is this a toothless or is this a white crested?
• 1:10:25
  Lesser spotted, you know Samoan dragon And if so do I need to ride it
• 1:10:32
  with a a large padded Samoan saddle?
• 1:10:36
  Or will my Portuguese dragon saddle that I've been using actually work?
• 1:10:40
  Was it a bit too low on the dragons withers in it?
• 1:10:42
  But what, you know what I mean?
• 1:10:43
  It's suddenly, it's getting interested in the whole thing.
• 1:10:49
  Actually, one of the keys.
• 1:10:52
  When we're talking about our body's response, because so
• 1:10:54
  often we are completely mystified because so much of this is going
• 1:10:58
  on in our subconscious, right?
• 1:11:00
  We don't know why, you know, on the face of it, most of the people
• 1:11:04
  that are coming into your office, their lives are probably quite good.
• 1:11:06
  Why are they so stressed?
• 1:11:09
  Why are they in a state where their nervous system is saying, I might die?
• 1:11:15
  It's getting curious about it.
• 1:11:17
  The first step to healing.
• 1:11:19
  Sukie Baxter: I think so.
• 1:11:21
  And I think that when we are curious, there's a lot of richness that can
• 1:11:25
  be discovered, but it's also not necessarily, I become curious and
• 1:11:31
  the solution arises immediately.
• 1:11:32
  And now I understand.
• 1:11:34
  Sure.
• 1:11:34
  And oftentimes there are many layers to this, right?
• 1:11:37
  So there's the surface answers.
• 1:11:41
  To the question, right?
• 1:11:42
  Like, we can become curious about a stuck shoulder or a tight
• 1:11:44
  hamstring and change some physical context and maybe have some shifts.
• 1:11:49
  But on a more global level, you know, there can be.
• 1:11:53
  A challenging relationship.
• 1:11:54
  There can be a challenging life circumstance.
• 1:11:57
  There could be past trauma or past conditioning about what's acceptable.
• 1:12:01
  I, I worked with many particularly people who were raised, socialized
• 1:12:06
  as women in the fifties.
• 1:12:08
  And.
• 1:12:09
  It's a very interesting thing when you start working with them around tension
• 1:12:12
  around their hips, that there's a lot of conditioning around how, if you move
• 1:12:16
  your hips, if you allow your hips to move, then you were considered like,
• 1:12:19
  you know, loose, or, you know, it was, it was suggestive in a way that proper
• 1:12:25
  girls did not, you know, should not do.
• 1:12:29
  for the time period.
• 1:12:30
  And so, so when you start to become curious, you, you unlock
• 1:12:34
  so much more of a person.
• 1:12:36
  So that's not, it's never a simple answer.
• 1:12:38
  It's, I should say, it's not never a simple answer, but
• 1:12:40
  it's rarely a simple answer.
• 1:12:42
  There's rarely like a night and day, you know, today, you're like
• 1:12:45
  this tomorrow, you're like that.
• 1:12:46
  And we move on.
• 1:12:47
  Rupert Isaacson: Surely that's the nature of curiosity is that
• 1:12:49
  we want to go down rabbit holes.
• 1:12:51
  I mean, that's, that's the nature of humanity is we like
• 1:12:54
  going down rabbit holes, right?
• 1:12:55
  Going down rabbit holes as long as they're not.
• 1:12:58
  negative ones that panic us is actually the great joys of life, isn't it?
• 1:13:03
  You know, I mean, to go find out, Oh, and I can go, Oh, and this
• 1:13:06
  leads, Oh, and this leads to here.
• 1:13:08
  When you, when you were working on these ladies though,
• 1:13:11
  that's an interesting thing.
• 1:13:13
  And you identified the tightness in the hips, or were they already
• 1:13:17
  coming and complaining of this, or they complaining about other things.
• 1:13:20
  And then you realized through looking at their nervous systems that it was in
• 1:13:25
  the hips, how aware of it in the pelvis,
• 1:13:29
  Sukie Baxter: were they?
• 1:13:30
  It depends on the person.
• 1:13:31
  So sometimes the complaint is localized to the area.
• 1:13:34
  So sometimes it was a like a hip issue.
• 1:13:37
  Often it's a low back issue.
• 1:13:38
  Okay.
• 1:13:39
  You know, because the pelvis if the pelvis is restricted.
• 1:13:41
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:13:42
  And then the hip joints are hugely influential.
• 1:13:45
  Right on the low back.
• 1:13:46
  So a lot of times with low back pain, but not always.
• 1:13:48
  I mean, again, everything is everything.
• 1:13:50
  It's all connected, right?
• 1:13:51
  So I'm looking at the entirety of a person.
• 1:13:54
  So regardless of what they come in with, if I have them walk across my
• 1:13:57
  office and you know, and, and this is just true for people if I'm or
• 1:14:01
  horses too, if I'm watching them walk, what I'm looking for is essentially
• 1:14:05
  what I call the rocks in the stream.
• 1:14:06
  Like what's flowing in their movement.
• 1:14:08
  What's not
• 1:14:09
  Rupert Isaacson: flowing.
• 1:14:10
  Is that your term?
• 1:14:12
  Looking for the rocks in the stream.
• 1:14:13
  I
• 1:14:14
  Sukie Baxter: don't.
• 1:14:14
  I think so.
• 1:14:16
  I think that it has, I've heard it from various sources and I don't remember
• 1:14:21
  where I was first exposed to it, but it is, it is how I conceptualize it.
• 1:14:25
  Yeah.
• 1:14:28
  Rupert Isaacson: And then when you say, okay, I think it's in the hips.
• 1:14:32
  At what point do you find yourself in a conversation with them about that
• 1:14:38
  1950s good girl conditioning and then strategies about letting that perhaps go?
• 1:14:47
  How?
• 1:14:50
  Do you find that when you begin to look at it that way, and talk about it
• 1:14:54
  that way, that there's a kind of a yes?
• 1:14:57
  That's it response or do you get denial
• 1:15:02
  Sukie Baxter: it really depends on the person.
• 1:15:03
  So sometimes you never have the conversation, right?
• 1:15:07
  So we don't necessarily have to consciously know these things Sometimes
• 1:15:10
  it's I think it's helpful because our brains want to have explanations
• 1:15:13
  for things So for most people having some sort of story and there's some
• 1:15:18
  sort of cognitive Understanding is helpful, but you don't have to, you
• 1:15:22
  can actually work on someone's body and it can shift their internal state.
• 1:15:25
  And then for example, I had a client who one time said.
• 1:15:29
  That they had a negative memory of their father.
• 1:15:32
  I don't know what the memory was.
• 1:15:33
  They never shared it with me, but that they had devoted
• 1:15:36
  many a yoga practice to it.
• 1:15:37
  Many a meditation to it, you know, really worked on this like experience
• 1:15:41
  and that after doing some body work for whatever it was, that was the key
• 1:15:46
  for them that like they could think about this memory and it just didn't
• 1:15:49
  have the charge that it used to have.
• 1:15:51
  It just seemed to be not, and not that the memory was gone, but that.
• 1:15:55
  The, you know, they could remember it, but they didn't feel the, whatever
• 1:15:58
  it was, the, the unpleasantness.
• 1:16:00
  They weren't locked in the same
• 1:16:02
  Rupert Isaacson: response that they were all those decades ago.
• 1:16:06
  Sukie Baxter: And I had no idea.
• 1:16:07
  I mean, this person never told me about that memory before we, we worked together.
• 1:16:10
  We didn't have a conversation about it.
• 1:16:12
  It just was the piece that helped it to dissipate.
• 1:16:14
  But with other people, you know, specifically if you talk about, you
• 1:16:17
  know, women in the, from the 1950s who was raised during that time.
• 1:16:22
  Who received this kind of messaging, it might be that as we work together and
• 1:16:27
  their hips are moving more, maybe she's, you know, she's walking, she's feeling it.
• 1:16:30
  She might be like, this feels uncomfortable.
• 1:16:33
  And then we have a conversation.
• 1:16:34
  Why is it uncomfortable?
• 1:16:35
  Unfamiliar?
• 1:16:37
  Is it uncomfortable?
• 1:16:37
  Painful?
• 1:16:38
  You know what, what, tell me more about this discomfort that you feel.
• 1:16:42
  And sometimes it comes up, like, I just feel like I shouldn't.
• 1:16:44
  Do this or I just something about this feels wrong or vulnerable, then
• 1:16:49
  we might have that conversation.
• 1:16:51
  Okay.
• 1:16:51
  Well, well, you know, you're moving your hips.
• 1:16:53
  What does that, what concepts do you have around that?
• 1:16:56
  Well, you know, I was always taught you shouldn't do that.
• 1:17:00
  Oh, okay.
• 1:17:00
  Well, isn't, isn't that interesting?
• 1:17:01
  And that may be the extent of the conversation.
• 1:17:03
  We don't need, need to have an hour of psychology on that.
• 1:17:05
  You know, isn't that interesting that moving your hips
• 1:17:08
  brings up this conditioning?
• 1:17:10
  You know, and what's your experience of that now and, and, you know, they, they
• 1:17:14
  may take, they may take that with them that day and they come back for the next
• 1:17:17
  session and things may have changed.
• 1:17:19
  We may have another conversation about it.
• 1:17:20
  We may not.
• 1:17:23
  Rupert Isaacson: So you gave up your practice and to some degree your practice
• 1:17:27
  is also taken away from you by COVID.
• 1:17:30
  You started putting these things on YouTube.
• 1:17:34
  Was there a, an oh shit, I can't pay my rent bit?
• 1:17:38
  Yeah, there was.
• 1:17:41
  Sukie Baxter: I, yeah, COVID was simultaneously like the best thing
• 1:17:45
  that ever happened to me and the worst thing that ever happened to
• 1:17:47
  me, which, you know, I think it was a huge, just upset for so many people.
• 1:17:52
  But in, in my case, I essentially lost everything because overnight
• 1:17:55
  I, a business that I built over 15 years was just gone, just gone.
• 1:18:00
  Like literally, I didn't, I didn't know that I went to work on a Thursday.
• 1:18:04
  And I came home and I never went back.
• 1:18:07
  That was it.
• 1:18:08
  And, and when you build a practice like that, it's no joke.
• 1:18:12
  That's a lot of work.
• 1:18:13
  There's a lot of talking to people over time.
• 1:18:16
  And I had a life, I have two horses that were boarded.
• 1:18:19
  I had a condo and I had an office with you know, rent that I had to
• 1:18:23
  pay and all of the associated things that go along with life and a cat.
• 1:18:26
  And, and so, yeah, I was, I was, but nobody else could pay
• 1:18:30
  anything either at that time.
• 1:18:31
  So it was a little bit of a blessing that I was like, I
• 1:18:33
  mean, what are they going to do?
• 1:18:34
  You know, like I it's COVID my, this, I can't work.
• 1:18:38
  So I just figured it out and I'll be honest, like I could go back and
• 1:18:43
  figure out how I figured it out, but I don't know how I figured it out.
• 1:18:45
  I just did.
• 1:18:45
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, here's a question.
• 1:18:46
  Did you, did you start immediately helping people privately on zoom?
• 1:18:51
  Sukie Baxter: I did a little bit of that, but I was very quickly frustrated
• 1:18:54
  because my clients essentially wanted me to do body work on them.
• 1:18:58
  And I, you can't, you know, there was a huge educational gap and you just,
• 1:19:02
  you can't do body work over zoom.
• 1:19:04
  It's not the same.
• 1:19:06
  And so what people were coming to me for, like they, I have a lot to offer people
• 1:19:11
  in terms of my knowledge and, you know, all the research I've done, but what
• 1:19:14
  people, what my clients really wanted was.
• 1:19:17
  Yeah.
• 1:19:18
  And I really couldn't provide that to them.
• 1:19:20
  So I did start helping people over zoom.
• 1:19:22
  I did some somatic meditations I just started kind of
• 1:19:25
  flailing about, to be honest.
• 1:19:27
  I was like, I don't know, let's just help people.
• 1:19:28
  Let's just do this.
• 1:19:29
  Let's just do that.
• 1:19:29
  Here I am.
• 1:19:30
  I've got a smartphone, I've got a computer, I've got internet.
• 1:19:32
  I don't think anyone's going to kick me out of my condo in the next month.
• 1:19:36
  So, you know, let's just do something.
• 1:19:39
  And I filmed a bunch of stuff at home and I started putting together
• 1:19:42
  some programs and honestly, it was.
• 1:19:44
  It was kind of nice because I had a lot of time to focus
• 1:19:49
  because I wasn't going anywhere.
• 1:19:52
  Rupert Isaacson: Do you think your, your research and knowledge of the
• 1:19:55
  nervous system and the brain by then helped to stop you from going
• 1:20:01
  into a panic and a negative spiral?
• 1:20:04
  Do you think it helped you to?
• 1:20:09
  Leverage the situation in a way.
• 1:20:12
  I
• 1:20:12
  Sukie Baxter: think it was that, that old quote about
• 1:20:15
  preparation, meeting opportunity.
• 1:20:17
  Because yes, I think the nervous system work helped.
• 1:20:21
  I think the fact that I know how to cook on a budget was helpful.
• 1:20:25
  I was able to like reduce my food bill quite a bit very quickly.
• 1:20:29
  And and then I just got really resourceful and I was like, okay,
• 1:20:33
  I can't put my hands on people, but I have all these other skills.
• 1:20:36
  I don't know if any of them will provide income for me, but they don't cost me
• 1:20:43
  anything or they don't cost me much to do.
• 1:20:46
  I have, you know, like what resources do I already have that I can use?
• 1:20:49
  Well, like I said, I have a smartphone, so it has a camera.
• 1:20:52
  I have internet.
• 1:20:54
  I already I'd been doing a little bit of YouTube because
• 1:20:56
  I was so busy with my practice.
• 1:20:57
  I wasn't as consistent as I had wanted to be, but I already had some of
• 1:21:01
  the things like I had a microphone.
• 1:21:02
  I had, you know, I had the things I needed.
• 1:21:04
  I didn't have really great lights, but I had a window, so, you know, I just kind
• 1:21:08
  of was like, well, it's not perfect.
• 1:21:10
  I don't have a professional studio, but.
• 1:21:13
  I'm, I've got these things, so what can I do right now with what I have?
• 1:21:17
  And
• 1:21:18
  Rupert Isaacson: at what point did you get your first bit of money
• 1:21:22
  from YouTube from these videos?
• 1:21:24
  From, in the pandemic?
• 1:21:27
  Sukie Baxter: I don't remember, but it wasn't very soon.
• 1:21:31
  I think it was like 2021.
• 1:21:33
  Rupert Isaacson: So you started going for it in 2019, and you were just like, well,
• 1:21:37
  you know, I'll just put these out there.
• 1:21:40
  Sukie Baxter: I think I was making a little bit, but like a couple hundred
• 1:21:43
  bucks, you know, we're not talking
• 1:21:45
  Rupert Isaacson: livable wage.
• 1:21:46
  Even that for most of us is like, damn, I made 200 bucks off my YouTube video.
• 1:21:49
  There must have been a sort of a, shit, this is possible moment.
• 1:21:54
  Even when you got those first little bits of trickles.
• 1:21:57
  Sukie Baxter: I think so.
• 1:21:57
  I think that I, I mean, one of the reasons I do what I do is I'm
• 1:22:00
  prone to anxiety myself, right?
• 1:22:01
  So I think my anxious brain is like, well, I'm making somebody, but I don't
• 1:22:04
  know if I can really live on this and it's not really, you know, So, so I
• 1:22:07
  don't know that I was like, you know, popping champagne and celebrating,
• 1:22:10
  but I was, you know, it's like, well, thank God I have that, you know?
• 1:22:13
  Rupert Isaacson: But given that most people that put something on YouTube never
• 1:22:16
  make a dime, I mean, that must have been an interesting transitional life moment
• 1:22:22
  of going, oh, I see this as possible.
• 1:22:27
  Sukie Baxter: So I knew conceptually that it was possible because I see other people
• 1:22:30
  doing it, but I, I had a really hard time believing it was possible for me.
• 1:22:34
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:22:35
  At what point did that get blown?
• 1:22:37
  You said 20, 2021.
• 1:22:38
  So two years in that gets blown out of the water.
• 1:22:42
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah.
• 1:22:42
  Then I started making quite a bit, but I don't, I don't rely
• 1:22:45
  on YouTube and it's not reliable.
• 1:22:46
  It's, it's very up and down.
• 1:22:48
  Right.
• 1:22:51
  Rupert Isaacson: So, what else were you doing in that two year period
• 1:22:56
  to keep body and soul together?
• 1:22:57
  I sold my
• 1:22:58
  Sukie Baxter: condo.
• 1:22:59
  Got out of the city I moved my horses to a lower cost of care
• 1:23:03
  facility, was quite far away.
• 1:23:05
  That was very hard for me.
• 1:23:06
  And I started, so I had been teaching online since like 2014 in terms of
• 1:23:11
  having like digital programs that people could buy with, you know.
• 1:23:14
  Educational materials and coaching,
• 1:23:15
  Rupert Isaacson: but already been putting together courses online I
• 1:23:19
  Sukie Baxter: had, but, but they were like, I actually recently went back
• 1:23:23
  and was looking at the content from one of those and I was like, this
• 1:23:25
  is not, it was, it was interesting.
• 1:23:26
  It's not bad.
• 1:23:27
  I was surprised because in my memory I was really having a hard time again, building
• 1:23:32
  that bridge from like, I'm trying to talk to people about how their body influences
• 1:23:35
  their mind, you know, put these programs out there and I would have all this like
• 1:23:38
  information around that for these people.
• 1:23:40
  And then like, the feedback was like, you know, but how do I stretch
• 1:23:43
  my hamstrings kind of a thing?
• 1:23:44
  It was, it was.
• 1:23:45
  It was a little bit of a struggle for me.
• 1:23:47
  I wasn't really, it wasn't connecting in the way that I wanted it to connect
• 1:23:51
  and it never was like, yeah, I mean, it was a little money on the side.
• 1:23:54
  It was not livable at all.
• 1:23:56
  So my practice was my, my bread and butter.
• 1:23:59
  So I, but I had that foundation and then.
• 1:24:02
  I started really talking to people as these YouTube videos gained traction
• 1:24:05
  and people were like, you get it.
• 1:24:07
  Like that, that was what I kept hearing was people would come to me and be
• 1:24:09
  like, I've been trying to figure this out for years and you've explained it
• 1:24:12
  in such a way that it connects for me.
• 1:24:14
  And I'm like, okay, thank goodness we're finally connecting.
• 1:24:16
  Like I'm, I'm finally understanding what people want to hear.
• 1:24:19
  They're getting the information they need.
• 1:24:20
  This is good.
• 1:24:21
  And as I talked to people I figured out that they really needed some, some
• 1:24:26
  Education and support in doing nervous system work for themselves, not me
• 1:24:30
  doing it on them, not me fixing them, not me being the mechanic, but like,
• 1:24:34
  let's empower them to do this work for themselves, which is really the only
• 1:24:37
  way it will be lasting and sustainable.
• 1:24:40
  So I started teaching a course.
• 1:24:42
  Online.
• 1:24:43
  And again, I didn't, I didn't know how it would work when I put it out there.
• 1:24:47
  I was like, let's try it.
• 1:24:49
  You know, I have, that was a live
• 1:24:51
  Rupert Isaacson: course.
• 1:24:51
  So that was film content that people would go through step by step.
• 1:24:54
  Sukie Baxter: It was live.
• 1:24:56
  And then I converted it to something that people could access
• 1:25:00
  on their own time, because I.
• 1:25:02
  Thought it was a little bit, it ended up being, I'm, I'm an overdeliver general.
• 1:25:07
  It's a lot for people.
• 1:25:09
  To me, it seemed like this is very, very reasonable for the amount of time we had.
• 1:25:13
  For them, it was probably
• 1:25:14
  Rupert Isaacson: worried that people are going to think they're shortchanged.
• 1:25:16
  Yeah,
• 1:25:16
  Sukie Baxter: probably.
• 1:25:17
  Yeah.
• 1:25:18
  Yeah.
• 1:25:19
  So I converted it to something that was more self paced and now I'm actually in
• 1:25:23
  the process of converting it back to to life because we find that that group.
• 1:25:29
  community going through it together is much more potent than
• 1:25:33
  people doing it on their own.
• 1:25:35
  But regardless of whether it was live or self paced, like the
• 1:25:38
  feedback has been really wonderful.
• 1:25:39
  I've learned a ton working with people I've had.
• 1:25:41
  I mean, when I get to interact with the people, the students who are
• 1:25:45
  in my community and who are in my programs, it's, it's amazing to me to
• 1:25:49
  look back over that journey and just.
• 1:25:51
  I'm so glad I was able to do that because it really it is that piece that I was
• 1:25:56
  kind of frustrated bumping up against in my practice was that I wasn't able to
• 1:26:00
  give people this foundational knowledge.
• 1:26:02
  Once they have this, the things that people are doing with it are
• 1:26:05
  just, they're just really fantastic because then, like you said, it opens
• 1:26:08
  that door and they can be curious.
• 1:26:10
  I, I just had amazing feedback and I haven't asked specifically.
• 1:26:14
  I'm going to be asking some of these people if I can share their stories soon.
• 1:26:18
  But generally, people are able to set better boundaries.
• 1:26:25
  So we have students who are chronic people pleasers, you know, who
• 1:26:29
  are they'll bring up situations.
• 1:26:31
  And then, as they understand how the what what's going on in the nervous system
• 1:26:34
  in regards to situations where they feel they need to, sort of morph into
• 1:26:39
  whatever it is that someone needs them to be in order to keep that person calm.
• 1:26:42
  And then they understand the nervous system implications of that.
• 1:26:45
  And what's driving that they're, they're able to be more true.
• 1:26:50
  And it's not, it's not about everyone can just F off and, you know, I'm
• 1:26:53
  going to do what I want to do.
• 1:26:54
  That's not it at all.
• 1:26:55
  But they're able to be more discerning about.
• 1:26:59
  Setting boundaries in ways that protect them and their own, you know, agency in
• 1:27:04
  life, which has been really cool to watch.
• 1:27:07
  I've had clients, a lot of clients who are health practitioners in some regard, a
• 1:27:11
  lot who are in coaching or mental health.
• 1:27:14
  We have people who are in all kinds of different disciplines, but Including
• 1:27:17
  massage and acupuncture and all that, but we've got people in coaching and mental
• 1:27:22
  health who are saying like, okay, this is helping me put the pieces together so that
• 1:27:25
  I'm now able to help my clients better.
• 1:27:27
  Like I'm understanding what's going on with them much better so
• 1:27:30
  that I'm able to bridge that gap with them and support them better.
• 1:27:34
  So that we're getting, they're kind of like secondhand client stories
• 1:27:38
  of, of change that are happening.
• 1:27:40
  Recently we had somebody who injured their back.
• 1:27:42
  Who was just, it just did something that they didn't normally do and was able
• 1:27:47
  to, the, I think the clinic said that it would take like six weeks to heal, but
• 1:27:52
  they were able with the understanding again of what's happening in the nervous
• 1:27:55
  system around this quote injury it wasn't, it was just kind of a diffuse injury.
• 1:28:00
  It wasn't diagnosed as like, you, you know.
• 1:28:02
  You actually broke something.
• 1:28:03
  It was more like you strained yourself.
• 1:28:07
  And with some understanding, they were able to work themselves out of
• 1:28:09
  pain into a functional state in about two days, rather than six weeks.
• 1:28:13
  So it's, it's kind of all over the map because it's so individual.
• 1:28:17
  And again, this is, it makes it a little hard to quantify, but it's
• 1:28:20
  also what I love about it is that it gives people what they need.
• 1:28:23
  It's not, it's not a program that is one size fits all.
• 1:28:26
  It gives you what you need for your next step, your next evolution.
• 1:28:31
  Rupert Isaacson: If it's me and I'm saying, okay, gosh, Suki, this sounds
• 1:28:34
  fantastic, I'd like to learn all about my nervous system so that I can
• 1:28:38
  make certain changes in my life, you know, in my body, in my brain, and
• 1:28:42
  therefore, by extension in my life.
• 1:28:44
  I presume though that people are coming in at different stages of knowledge.
• 1:28:48
  So you must, you must have people doing your online courses now who are
• 1:28:54
  Somewhat far along in their education.
• 1:28:56
  Others who are just beginning.
• 1:28:57
  How do you integrate?
• 1:28:58
  How do you, how's it, how's their inclusion in that?
• 1:29:00
  Yeah, because you've got to catch certain people up to speed.
• 1:29:03
  Other people are over here.
• 1:29:04
  Or is everything individualized?
• 1:29:05
  How do you, and how do you have enough time in the day for that?
• 1:29:09
  There's lots of different
• 1:29:11
  Sukie Baxter: No, it's a good question.
• 1:29:11
  It's been something that we've been working with that I've been working with.
• 1:29:14
  I have a couple coaches who work with me as well.
• 1:29:16
  So I've, I've done a couple of things.
• 1:29:18
  So one, I implemented a shorter program that is newer as of last year.
• 1:29:22
  That's kind of like a first step.
• 1:29:24
  It is a first
• 1:29:25
  Rupert Isaacson: entry level course that somebody would do.
• 1:29:28
  Sukie Baxter: Correct.
• 1:29:28
  And so I, and now I've, I've created that as a prerequisite for the, the
• 1:29:33
  now we had it more self paced, but now live again, of course and that just
• 1:29:37
  kind of, it's kind of just a little bit of a checkpoint of like, is this
• 1:29:39
  something you want to go deeper with?
• 1:29:41
  Is this something that's working for you?
• 1:29:42
  So they actually get to have the experience of it.
• 1:29:45
  And then I can have a little bit of a conversation with them.
• 1:29:48
  As needed to find out if the next step is right for them.
• 1:29:50
  So, so that we've got people coming into the longer program who are at
• 1:29:55
  a place where like, we're pretty sure this is where they need to be.
• 1:29:58
  But the other piece of that is that I am a huge fan of iteration.
• 1:30:03
  So we have students who go back to our course two and three
• 1:30:05
  times easily because when you go through it, it hits you one way.
• 1:30:09
  And then once you've kind of.
• 1:30:11
  Gone through the whole arc of it.
• 1:30:12
  You're like, Oh, wait a minute.
• 1:30:13
  I need to go back to the beginning.
• 1:30:17
  And it lands differently.
• 1:30:18
  Right.
• 1:30:19
  And so then you can, you can go through it multiple times and
• 1:30:21
  there's so much richness there.
• 1:30:23
  So there's that piece.
• 1:30:24
  But similar, you know, I, I came and spent some time with you and you took
• 1:30:28
  me through like, Really basic stuff, but it's important, which is like,
• 1:30:33
  here's how you walk with the horse.
• 1:30:35
  Can you walk in a straight line?
• 1:30:37
  Right.
• 1:30:37
  You did those checks with me to make sure, because if we had progressed.
• 1:30:41
  And you were like, okay, let's jump into this other thing over here.
• 1:30:44
  But we didn't check to make sure I could actually balance and walk with a
• 1:30:47
  horse in these different configurations, then I might've fallen over and
• 1:30:51
  it would have been a real problem.
• 1:30:52
  And so, you know, you, you did those checks and it was important to do them.
• 1:30:57
  And it prepped my nervous system for then doing it later, even
• 1:31:00
  though I was able to do it.
• 1:31:01
  Right.
• 1:31:02
  Similarly.
• 1:31:03
  When I'm going through this with people, yeah, it might be basic information, but
• 1:31:07
  there's probably a few holes in there for them, and it kind of sets them up.
• 1:31:11
  It gets their brain and their body in the right state for the
• 1:31:14
  next piece and so on and so forth.
• 1:31:16
  So even if some of it isn't new for people, I still think it's beneficial
• 1:31:20
  for everyone to go through all of it.
• 1:31:23
  Rupert Isaacson: No, I would agree.
• 1:31:24
  I mean, it's interesting.
• 1:31:25
  You, you talk about me checking those basics with you when you came
• 1:31:28
  and worked with the horses with me.
• 1:31:30
  The reason I do that is because of course I used to jump in further up and then
• 1:31:35
  I indeed did have people fall over and things like that and go, Oh my gosh, I, I
• 1:31:39
  didn't know that that that was possible.
• 1:31:41
  I realized that I had to absolutely check every step along the way because.
• 1:31:48
  If you didn't, there was almost a negligence to it that because if someone
• 1:31:52
  can do it, well, they're fantastic.
• 1:31:53
  You just breeze through that in five minutes and then you
• 1:31:55
  off you go to the next thing.
• 1:31:56
  And I'm also always thinking I'm training someone to be a teacher.
• 1:32:01
  So I would like them to do those checks as well.
• 1:32:06
  No matter how apparently experienced the person in front of them is
• 1:32:11
  because you just don't know.
• 1:32:14
  But when you are teaching is a time consuming thing.
• 1:32:22
  You now have a lot of people signing up to your online
• 1:32:26
  courses about the nervous system.
• 1:32:27
  And by the way, listeners, we're going to tell you how you can do
• 1:32:29
  that, and I really would recommend it.
• 1:32:32
  Learning about my nervous system happened to me through my son's autism, and it
• 1:32:36
  was life changing for me in terms of Me being able to have more agency in my
• 1:32:40
  own life having had to learn a bit about it because of my son So I really really
• 1:32:46
  really really would recommend taking the time to do a course with Suki But so how
• 1:32:52
  much time do you actually spend in your day sitting in front of a zoom screen?
• 1:32:57
  Does it not take over your life?
• 1:32:58
  How do you how do you balance that and you have horses?
• 1:33:01
  I know How do you find time to get out to them because that does I
• 1:33:04
  know there's an awful lot of people out there Wanting to do your stuff
• 1:33:08
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, and this is a balancing act that I'm always
• 1:33:11
  working on because as you mentioned, you know, I have to go 1st and and live
• 1:33:16
  my life in a way that works for me so that I can share what that's like for,
• 1:33:20
  you know, people who want to do that.
• 1:33:22
  They're not gonna live my life, but they're gonna live their life
• 1:33:24
  in a way that works for them.
• 1:33:25
  And.
• 1:33:26
  So I, I have to make choices in my, in my work that allow me to
• 1:33:30
  have the lifestyle that I want.
• 1:33:31
  And that means, you know, both having the finances that support me and allow
• 1:33:36
  me to live, but also the time freedom, which is really important to me, because
• 1:33:39
  like you said, I have horses and.
• 1:33:42
  As much as I value the time that I did in my practice and value the people
• 1:33:47
  that I was able to meet and work with it was always very hard for me to have
• 1:33:51
  a life that was so heavily scheduled because literally every hour and a
• 1:33:55
  half you've got a person coming in, there's no flexibility there whatsoever.
• 1:33:59
  And that was really challenging.
• 1:34:00
  And I just, I think I hit a wall with that where like, I sort of, I can't do it.
• 1:34:05
  So, so I'm very careful to keep time freedom.
• 1:34:08
  So I've played with different structures in my business.
• 1:34:10
  So, you know, my YouTube videos are always available.
• 1:34:13
  So people can 24 seven go out there and watch them, which is fantastic.
• 1:34:16
  Because people sometimes at one in the morning, whatever that is
• 1:34:18
  for them are looking for that.
• 1:34:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:34:20
  And what might watch and rewatch something like I watch and rewatch stuff on YouTube.
• 1:34:25
  that I find interesting.
• 1:34:26
  I might watch it 10 times because there's stuff in there I've missed.
• 1:34:29
  Yeah,
• 1:34:30
  Sukie Baxter: absolutely.
• 1:34:31
  So that's a resource for them.
• 1:34:32
  I have other resources like that as well.
• 1:34:34
  So there's things that people can do on their own time and
• 1:34:36
  schedule, which don't require my presence, which is really great.
• 1:34:39
  It also means they don't have to then say the same things over and over
• 1:34:42
  again, because sometimes you're not
• 1:34:43
  Rupert Isaacson: getting paid for that when they go and watch YouTube at
• 1:34:46
  this particular stage on that thing.
• 1:34:48
  I
• 1:34:48
  Sukie Baxter: mean, I, I am, but not reliably, right?
• 1:34:51
  Like I don't base my business on that.
• 1:34:53
  So there's that element of it, but then my courses.
• 1:34:56
  So that prerequisite course that I mentioned, that's that entry level kind
• 1:34:59
  of first step course is self paced.
• 1:35:01
  So people again can access that.
• 1:35:03
  It's always there and it's always a bit as of now, it's always
• 1:35:05
  there and always available.
• 1:35:07
  I don't have any plans to change that, but someone can enroll in that at, at
• 1:35:11
  any time at their leisure and have that course without me being there, walking
• 1:35:16
  them personally through every step.
• 1:35:18
  So that, that works for both of us again, right?
• 1:35:20
  Cause they get the entry level information.
• 1:35:22
  They're getting the practices.
• 1:35:23
  They're getting their learning.
• 1:35:25
  They're setting themselves up for further work if they want to,
• 1:35:27
  if that's the path they choose.
• 1:35:29
  And then again, I have that time freedom where I've provided that for
• 1:35:33
  them and then I can be working with my horses, teaching people, helping at a
• 1:35:36
  clinic, you know, doing something else, maybe working with a client when I'm
• 1:35:39
  with, you know, it allows me almost to duplicate myself, which is fantastic.
• 1:35:43
  Yeah.
• 1:35:44
  And then the course that I'm teaching live, that was a difficult
• 1:35:47
  decision because I've made it self paced for that reason, right?
• 1:35:49
  Like, you absolutely can go through this material on your own
• 1:35:53
  and it has worked for students.
• 1:35:55
  But in observing my students, I felt it was in their best interest to reset
• 1:36:00
  and actually teach it live again.
• 1:36:02
  So this year, I made that decision to do it.
• 1:36:04
  But when I made that decision, I sat with it for a couple of
• 1:36:06
  months before I decided to do it.
• 1:36:08
  And then when I decided to do it, I looked at when in the year am I okay
• 1:36:13
  with Basically being on every week and having to consistently show up
• 1:36:18
  and teach and, and I'm okay with that, but I don't, I don't want to do it
• 1:36:23
  every week of the year, all year long, because again, I need some time freedom.
• 1:36:27
  I need the ability to travel and do workshops.
• 1:36:29
  I need the ability to travel for my own.
• 1:36:32
  Learning and my own enjoyment.
• 1:36:33
  I, you know, I need the ability to have some flexibility.
• 1:36:36
  So I picked basically, we're gonna have two courses this year, and
• 1:36:40
  they're each 12 weeks in length, and I picked times where I am okay with
• 1:36:45
  having to be in front of the computer more during those times of year.
• 1:36:49
  So
• 1:36:50
  Rupert Isaacson: when are those times of year?
• 1:36:51
  When are you doing them?
• 1:36:52
  Sukie Baxter: So our, our first run through will be basically we've divided it
• 1:36:57
  up because we have so many practitioners in our group and there was a profound need
• 1:37:00
  for more mentorship for practitioners.
• 1:37:01
  So our, our personal course, so if you want to do this journey for yourself,
• 1:37:05
  whether you are a professional or not our personal nerve apprenticeship
• 1:37:09
  course will be taking place starting in March and it will run for 12 weeks.
• 1:37:13
  And then people who are in that who are professionals and would like to
• 1:37:16
  get practitioner mentorship and, and start to learn how to apply it to
• 1:37:20
  their own clients more intentionally.
• 1:37:21
  That aspect of the course will start in September of this year.
• 1:37:25
  And again, it will run for 12 weeks, although there's a break
• 1:37:27
  in the middle for holidays.
• 1:37:28
  So it's technically over the course of 13 weeks.
• 1:37:30
  Rupert Isaacson: So for 24 weeks of the year, effectively half the year, spring
• 1:37:36
  and fall, you're on, you're going to be.
• 1:37:40
  live and direct doing that.
• 1:37:42
  Okay.
• 1:37:43
  And
• 1:37:47
  that's when you do that, how many hours of your day does that take up and what's
• 1:37:52
  its effect on your nervous system?
• 1:37:53
  Yeah,
• 1:37:54
  Sukie Baxter: it's that's such a good question because it takes up
• 1:37:57
  so many more hours than the actual hours that I'm teaching, right?
• 1:37:59
  Because I'm preparing a presentation materials.
• 1:38:02
  I am, as one of my friends calls it, I'm in the parking lot of it.
• 1:38:05
  So, like, I'm thinking about it.
• 1:38:06
  Right?
• 1:38:06
  So even if all the presentation materials are done and I'm like, ready to go, I'm
• 1:38:10
  still like, putting my brain in that lane to an extent for quite a while
• 1:38:15
  before and after any kind of course.
• 1:38:17
  So it probably takes up at least 20 hours a week.
• 1:38:24
  Yeah.
• 1:38:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, and that's not including one to ones that
• 1:38:30
  you're doing, consultancies that you're doing, and other things.
• 1:38:33
  It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you put it all together, it's a working week.
• 1:38:37
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it is, it is, because there's also, that's
• 1:38:39
  not the only thing that, as you know, it takes to run a business.
• 1:38:42
  Right,
• 1:38:42
  Rupert Isaacson: and you've got to, and you've got to create the material and
• 1:38:44
  film it, and script it and all that.
• 1:38:46
  But you are living free and writing free through this.
• 1:38:50
  Sukie Baxter: And I, and I like my work.
• 1:38:51
  I think that's really important too, right?
• 1:38:53
  So, like, this isn't.
• 1:38:55
  Yes, I'm sacrificing some time, but it's not, I don't look at it as a
• 1:38:58
  sacrifice because I also get the joy of working with my students.
• 1:39:02
  I get the joy of putting my head in this material.
• 1:39:05
  Like, the reason I'm doing this is because I like what I teach.
• 1:39:07
  It's not, it's not so that I can like sit on a beach and drink Coronas
• 1:39:10
  and collect a paycheck, right?
• 1:39:11
  I love what I do.
• 1:39:12
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 1:39:13
  No, I couldn't agree more.
• 1:39:14
  I love my work.
• 1:39:15
  You know, I am my work.
• 1:39:17
  I can't live any other way.
• 1:39:20
  I, yeah, I dig what I do.
• 1:39:26
  Do you think that getting in touch with your nervous system and learning about
• 1:39:31
  it properly helps you to dig what you do?
• 1:39:34
  I mean, I think for so many people that is the dream to not feel a fuck, you
• 1:39:38
  know Sorry, I said fuck but you know, it's my podcast I can say that's many
• 1:39:40
  times I want but you don't you know, we do not want to be thinking that when we
• 1:39:45
  wake up in the morning and Go to work.
• 1:39:48
  We all go through some phases in our lives where that's been the case and
• 1:39:52
  I think that a bit of time in those trenches is character building, but
• 1:39:57
  we don't want to stay there forever.
• 1:40:00
  What do you think is the, if people do want to live free and ride free, they
• 1:40:03
  want to break free and they want to self actualize and all these things.
• 1:40:08
  The professional expression of that, what we do for a job is Of
• 1:40:13
  course, really important because that's what's going to give us the
• 1:40:16
  livelihood to be able to do that.
• 1:40:17
  What do you think is the thing that people could find the most helpful about
• 1:40:24
  knowing about their nervous systems that can help free them towards that?
• 1:40:31
  Big question.
• 1:40:33
  Sukie Baxter: It is.
• 1:40:33
  It's a big question.
• 1:40:34
  I think that I think that tapping into desire is really important.
• 1:40:43
  And I talk about this in my program, because as I mentioned, we cannot
• 1:40:47
  exist on a spectrum of like this thing that's unpleasant and then
• 1:40:50
  nothingness on the other side.
• 1:40:52
  So if we remove pain, if we remove anxiety, if we remove whatever
• 1:40:55
  it is that we are like this, this sense, this feeling, this
• 1:40:58
  experience I'm having is unpleasant.
• 1:40:59
  I don't like it.
• 1:41:00
  I want something different.
• 1:41:02
  The universe of course, the vacuum, you can't just take that out of
• 1:41:05
  a person's experience and then.
• 1:41:07
  They're fine.
• 1:41:08
  Like you have to put something there and I, I think desire is, is where
• 1:41:11
  it lives and we have been so deeply conditioned to not trust ourselves
• 1:41:17
  around desire and in so many ways.
• 1:41:19
  Yes.
• 1:41:19
  With, you know, love and attraction, but like food, you know, like we've been
• 1:41:23
  taught, we have to measure and weigh and.
• 1:41:25
  And, you know, like we can't trust that we, the thing we want to eat,
• 1:41:28
  like, you know, that our bodies will lead us astray, essentially.
• 1:41:31
  And those are just simple examples,
• 1:41:33
  Rupert Isaacson: but taking a nap is a sign of
• 1:41:34
  Sukie Baxter: weakness or something.
• 1:41:35
  Yes.
• 1:41:35
  I mean, in so many ways we, we so beat ourselves up for
• 1:41:39
  wanting things that nourish us.
• 1:41:41
  And we've been conditioned to believe this
• 1:41:43
  Rupert Isaacson: great means for social control.
• 1:41:45
  It
• 1:41:46
  Sukie Baxter: really is.
• 1:41:47
  And working in those factories, when you have people who are, this
• 1:41:51
  gets into something I talk about.
• 1:41:53
  A lot too, which is that when you have a society of people who are dissociated
• 1:41:56
  from their felt self, physical selves, right, their sense of self, literally our
• 1:42:00
  sense of ourself, how we feel ourselves if you have a, sorry, there's sirens
• 1:42:05
  I don't know if you can hear that, but if you have a society of people who
• 1:42:08
  cannot feel themselves, they're, they're divorced from their sense of self,
• 1:42:12
  then they will feel anxiety, right?
• 1:42:14
  So, so I look at the science around like amputees.
• 1:42:18
  The pain science.
• 1:42:18
  Right.
• 1:42:18
  If you cut off someone's limb and your brain can no longer locate
• 1:42:22
  it, then your brain's like, Holy crap, this is really dangerous.
• 1:42:26
  And you get these weird phantom limb pains because your brain's
• 1:42:30
  like, I got to map that somehow.
• 1:42:31
  And I'm going to tell you that something, something's really wrong here.
• 1:42:34
  I can't feel it.
• 1:42:35
  So I'm going to set, I'm going to push the pain button to tell you.
• 1:42:39
  That it's hurting.
• 1:42:40
  Even though there's no actual limb there to tell you that it's painful, but your
• 1:42:43
  brain is deciding that there's pain.
• 1:42:45
  And I think that when we divorce ourselves from our sense of self, when we can't
• 1:42:51
  feel ourselves which we are taught to do, we're taught to numb out all the time.
• 1:42:56
  We feel this sense of doom and anxiety around it, and then we become
• 1:43:00
  very steerable, because we will be sold anything to make that go away.
• 1:43:04
  And that is an object, like, you know, fashion, or a car, or jewelry,
• 1:43:11
  or, you know, something like that.
• 1:43:13
  Rupert Isaacson: So it's where the pain goes for ten minutes, yeah.
• 1:43:15
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, but it's also ideologies.
• 1:43:18
  Yes.
• 1:43:19
  You get a very steerable group of people because we will, we will
• 1:43:23
  buy ideologies that make us feel better, that make that pain go away.
• 1:43:27
  And I think when you start to get people back into their own physical
• 1:43:33
  bodies and their own felt sense, we become much less steerable.
• 1:43:39
  And then when you get people hooked up to desire, I think that's
• 1:43:43
  Rupert Isaacson: world changing.
• 1:43:44
  Now when you say desire, do you mean aspirational desire?
• 1:43:47
  I desire to write a novel.
• 1:43:51
  Or do you mean desire as in, I desire that cupcake right now, or do you mean both?
• 1:43:59
  I mean both.
• 1:44:00
  Sukie Baxter: Okay.
• 1:44:01
  And usually it starts with, I desire that cupcake right now.
• 1:44:03
  But it's also, you know, desire is not it's not simple either because I
• 1:44:08
  think people think, well, if I just let myself do whatever I want, then
• 1:44:11
  I'll eat a dozen cupcakes every day.
• 1:44:14
  But the reality is that if you actually let yourself do what you want over, you
• 1:44:19
  know, and this is a condensed version of this, but if you actually let yourself
• 1:44:22
  do whatever you want over the course of time, then you will find that desires
• 1:44:26
  have hierarchy because I might want to eat a dozen cupcakes every day, but
• 1:44:30
  I don't want to feel the way I feel after I eat a dozen cupcakes every day.
• 1:44:33
  And so my actual desire is to feel really good.
• 1:44:37
  And at the essence, that's all.
• 1:44:38
  What we all want is to feel really good.
• 1:44:40
  And so my desire will actually lead me to choices that make me feel really good.
• 1:44:45
  My desire will lead me to a salad, because I know I feel good after I eat vegetables.
• 1:44:52
  If
• 1:44:52
  Rupert Isaacson: our desire to feel good is at the root of self actualization, and
• 1:45:01
  I can see why it would be, because after all, the vehicle that we're going around
• 1:45:06
  in, is either running well or it's not.
• 1:45:10
  And if it's not running well, it's less likely to take us to
• 1:45:13
  the place where we want to go.
• 1:45:16
  Is the real key, oddly enough, becoming a friend to your body, is that the
• 1:45:21
  real key of self actualization?
• 1:45:26
  To
• 1:45:29
  actually learn your body's needs, and respect them, and nurture them, and
• 1:45:37
  treat yourself like a loved flower bed.
• 1:45:42
  Rather than like, picked over soccer field.
• 1:45:47
  Is that, is that really where it lies?
• 1:45:50
  Because what else, and if it does, what is that but the nervous system really?
• 1:45:57
  I couldn't have said it better.
• 1:46:01
  Is that what you meant?
• 1:46:03
  Because I, I wrote down at the beginning, I wanted to ask you, you talked about
• 1:46:08
  sensing and the importance of sensing.
• 1:46:11
  Is that what sensing, is that what you mean by sensing?
• 1:46:15
  Is learning to make friends with your body to the point where you can learn?
• 1:46:19
  Identify that you can have then, what's the word, appropriate responses
• 1:46:27
  to things in your nervous system.
• 1:46:30
  So that whether it's, well I don't have to walk around feeling
• 1:46:33
  traumatized all the time because I'm actually not in danger right now.
• 1:46:39
  As opposed to something traumatic happened to me, I therefore am going to walk around
• 1:46:42
  with a sense of trauma for 30 years.
• 1:46:46
  To, I would like to have a nap every afternoon but I feel that I can't.
• 1:46:52
  Because somehow that's letting the team down, even though I kind of
• 1:46:57
  know that I'm play a better game when I do, but I am tired right now.
• 1:47:02
  I'm just going to burn through my tiredness for 50 years.
• 1:47:07
  Is sensing, does sensing become possible when you begin to identify the nervous
• 1:47:18
  system's needs and what they're telling you respond appropriately to them?
• 1:47:22
  And then can you just get more and more subtle with that
• 1:47:28
  until the blocks to your desire?
• 1:47:34
  Melt away, because I know that, and I'm talking so much right now, and
• 1:47:37
  I will stop in a minute, but I'm, I'm, I'm just, this, this is all one
• 1:47:39
  question that I'm trying to pose to you.
• 1:47:43
  A lot of us have a, have a very love hate relationship with desire,
• 1:47:47
  because there are, there are things that we know that we desire.
• 1:47:52
  Let's say it's writing a novel that you know that you would feel so
• 1:47:56
  fulfilled if you did that, but you feel completely blocked from doing that,
• 1:47:59
  because you feel You're not good enough.
• 1:48:01
  You're not worthy of it.
• 1:48:02
  You couldn't do it.
• 1:48:03
  You haven't got the time for it.
• 1:48:04
  There's this, the that, the da da da da da da.
• 1:48:06
  You look up years go by and you haven't written that novel.
• 1:48:09
  But you, the desire hasn't gone away.
• 1:48:11
  The desire is now painful.
• 1:48:13
  So the desire is now a sense of failure and a sense of so you push it away.
• 1:48:18
  And then I want to go do heroin or whatever.
• 1:48:20
  I am sensing the distress in my nervous system from that thwarted desire.
• 1:48:28
  So, and heroin will certainly.
• 1:48:30
  Make me feel better for a little bit.
• 1:48:31
  How?
• 1:48:37
  So, so, so, is it the learning of the nervous system that gives one the chance?
• 1:48:43
  to sense what one truly needs.
• 1:48:47
  So if I want to write that novel and not do heroin, do I need to learn how
• 1:48:54
  to actually address what my nervous system needs and then I've actually got
• 1:48:56
  a better chance of writing that novel?
• 1:48:59
  Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well I think it's a more complicated question.
• 1:49:01
  I love where you're going with this.
• 1:49:04
  But say you want to write a novel, so I would be wondering, like,
• 1:49:08
  why do you want to write a novel?
• 1:49:10
  Because that's a really interesting question, right?
• 1:49:12
  Is it because you want to write, because you have something in you that you care to
• 1:49:15
  share, that you want to get down on paper?
• 1:49:18
  It's important to you to get something that's been formulating out.
• 1:49:23
  Or is it that you want to write a novel because you require the recognition
• 1:49:27
  of saying, I've written a book and you want to be able to walk into a room?
• 1:49:31
  And, and that's, those, those are something I talk about is the same thing.
• 1:49:36
  Can it can be exactly the same act, but it can be completely
• 1:49:40
  different motivations, right?
• 1:49:41
  So two people can run up a Hill.
• 1:49:43
  One person's running up a Hill because they really love to run.
• 1:49:45
  It feels good.
• 1:49:46
  They love how they feel.
• 1:49:47
  After they run, they love the feeling of strength.
• 1:49:49
  And yes, it's really hard in the moment.
• 1:49:50
  And maybe they kind of are resistant because, you know, they know that they're
• 1:49:53
  going to breathe hard and be sore and you know, it's uncomfortable, but they,
• 1:49:56
  they do it because they are, they love that aspect of their physical fitness.
• 1:50:01
  Another person might be running up that hill because they're mad at
• 1:50:04
  themselves for eating a dozen cupcakes.
• 1:50:06
  And they feel that they have to somehow atone for food that they ate, but they
• 1:50:11
  really don't want to run up the hill.
• 1:50:12
  They're doing it almost as punishment for themselves.
• 1:50:14
  Two people running up the hill looks exactly the same, two people
• 1:50:17
  writing a novel looks exactly the same, but what's the motivation,
• 1:50:20
  what's the drive behind it, right?
• 1:50:22
  So that's, I think when we talk about desire, we have to talk
• 1:50:25
  about intrinsic motivation.
• 1:50:26
  What are we intrinsically motivated to do?
• 1:50:28
  What is it that we are doing for its own reward?
• 1:50:31
  So if you are a person who loves to sit down and write, like there's
• 1:50:35
  nourishment in that process for you.
• 1:50:38
  Then you can break it down.
• 1:50:40
  It's not that writing the novel is the thing.
• 1:50:42
  It's the sitting down and writing.
• 1:50:43
  Well, how can you do that for two minutes a day?
• 1:50:46
  How can you do that for five minutes a day?
• 1:50:47
  How can you find space for that?
• 1:50:49
  How can you write it on post it notes?
• 1:50:51
  How, you know, whatever it is for that person, how can I, how can I make sure
• 1:50:56
  that I'm getting the nourishment of this thing that fulfills me in my life?
• 1:51:00
  And the more that we make choices to do the things that nourish us, the
• 1:51:04
  more we are in alignment with the life that is true to us, which again, looks
• 1:51:07
  different for every single person.
• 1:51:11
  Rupert Isaacson: And you use the word nourishment.
• 1:51:14
  Nourishment is also a physical thing, food.
• 1:51:18
  Food goes into us.
• 1:51:20
  We, we, we sense that we are hungry.
• 1:51:23
  What is telling us that we are hungry?
• 1:51:25
  Presumably our nervous system.
• 1:51:27
  Yes.
• 1:51:28
  What is telling us when we're full?
• 1:51:30
  Presumably our nervous system.
• 1:51:32
  What is telling us actually that dozen cupcakes made me feel a bit sick?
• 1:51:38
  Presumably our nervous system.
• 1:51:40
  Sukie Baxter: It's, it goes back to sensing.
• 1:51:42
  You're sensing it.
• 1:51:42
  It's, it's the physical sensations that you have.
• 1:51:45
  It's how we know everything.
• 1:51:46
  Right.
• 1:51:46
  It, I think this is also kind of a revelation for people, but all of
• 1:51:49
  our emotions are physical sensations.
• 1:51:51
  Those are just labeled.
• 1:51:52
  Rupert Isaacson: It's true.
• 1:51:53
  It's true.
• 1:51:53
  Yeah.
• 1:51:53
  Yeah.
• 1:51:54
  It's true.
• 1:51:54
  And we, we can, some of them are actually physical, physically painful, and some of
• 1:51:58
  'em are actually physically, you're right.
• 1:52:00
  Mm-Hmm.
• 1:52:01
  , are thoughts physical?
• 1:52:03
  I guess they must be right.
• 1:52:05
  Sukie Baxter: Thoughts are sensory information.
• 1:52:06
  So typically when you have a thought, you'll also have a corresponding
• 1:52:10
  physical reaction to that.
• 1:52:11
  So, maybe a facial expression, maybe a certain tension or a posture.
• 1:52:15
  It might even just be like a twinge in, you know, somewhere in your
• 1:52:18
  inside somewhere maybe a shortening of breath or more fullness of breath.
• 1:52:22
  Right?
• 1:52:22
  So different thoughts will, will impact us, which is where we get
• 1:52:25
  the, Oh, if I think a thought, my body will respond in this way.
• 1:52:28
  That's true.
• 1:52:29
  They're, they're interconnected, but it's two ways.
• 1:52:31
  It's a two way street.
• 1:52:34
  Rupert Isaacson: So if I want to nourish.
• 1:52:36
  Myself, then I need to become a friend to my nervous system, which means
• 1:52:42
  I then have to know what it needs.
• 1:52:50
  We are coming up on the over two hour mark, and I want to
• 1:52:59
  continue this conversation.
• 1:53:00
  I'd like to have you on again, because I feel that we're all of the rabbit
• 1:53:06
  holes that need to go be gone down.
• 1:53:10
  If we're coming towards wrapping up this part of what I hope
• 1:53:14
  will be a longer conversation.
• 1:53:18
  And we want to become, to nourish the nervous system, become friends
• 1:53:23
  with the body and nourish the nervous system so that all these other
• 1:53:25
  things that we talked about can flirt out from our nervous system.
• 1:53:31
  What are the basic steps that you think any homo sapiens sapiens alive
• 1:53:40
  on planet earth would do well to take?
• 1:53:49
  Sukie Baxter: I think that the foundational step is to
• 1:53:51
  develop The ability to describe your sensory experience.
• 1:53:56
  Notice and describe your sensory experience.
• 1:53:58
  So, in 15 years of working with people, I would ask the question you
• 1:54:03
  know, essentially, I was looking for, like, what in your body or, you know,
• 1:54:07
  what's your sensory experience in your body, but I would ask that in various
• 1:54:10
  ways of like, what are you noticing?
• 1:54:11
  What has your attention?
• 1:54:12
  I try to avoid.
• 1:54:13
  What do you feel?
• 1:54:14
  Because people then usually kind of go off into emotions sometimes, not always.
• 1:54:19
  Yeah.
• 1:54:20
  But it's really challenging for a whole society of people who've been
• 1:54:25
  conditioned not to notice our bodies, to dismiss our bodies, to You know,
• 1:54:32
  basically, yeah, overrides a great word.
• 1:54:35
  Override everything's happening.
• 1:54:36
  I mean, literally, you know, when you're a child, they
• 1:54:39
  condition you to not move, right?
• 1:54:41
  So you get, you get recess.
• 1:54:43
  It's a, it's a short period of time.
• 1:54:45
  That you get to run around and then the rest
• 1:54:47
  Rupert Isaacson: of the time you are in the toilet.
• 1:54:48
  Yeah,
• 1:54:49
  Sukie Baxter: sure.
• 1:54:50
  Yeah.
• 1:54:50
  And, and your food, you know, you can't eat when you're hungry.
• 1:54:52
  You can't go to the bathroom when you need to go to the bathroom.
• 1:54:54
  You can't move when you feel the urge to move.
• 1:54:55
  You basically take every urge that you feel in your body
• 1:54:58
  and you just suppress it.
• 1:55:00
  And, and then we become very good at this.
• 1:55:01
  Well, that's a useful skill because you can't always just, you know,
• 1:55:04
  do whatever, whenever if you're on an airplane, you can't, you know,
• 1:55:07
  run around like a crazy person.
• 1:55:08
  There's just not enough room.
• 1:55:10
  But.
• 1:55:11
  Getting back to a place where you can, like you said, become a friend to your
• 1:55:14
  nervous system requires noticing what your nervous system is telling you.
• 1:55:18
  And I have found that the people who develop what I call sensory skills, which
• 1:55:22
  is the ability to sense and describe your nervous system state do best
• 1:55:26
  with nervous system work, they, they tend to have the most benefit from it.
• 1:55:30
  So I emphasize that in the work that I teach.
• 1:55:32
  And I think it's just a foundational skill that if we taught this
• 1:55:35
  to kids, I think we would have.
• 1:55:38
  You know, more productive conversations.
• 1:55:39
  I think we would have healthier adults,
• 1:55:42
  Rupert Isaacson: right?
• 1:55:43
  And probably better economies because people are productive when they're
• 1:55:48
  Sukie Baxter: happy Yeah, and I think we'd have a more peaceful world to that old
• 1:55:53
  Rupert Isaacson: thing.
• 1:55:55
  Yes, that would be nice Okay Stencing is listening, right?
• 1:56:09
  So
• 1:56:09
  Sukie Baxter: noticing it's it's attending.
• 1:56:11
  It's having attention towards something,
• 1:56:13
  Rupert Isaacson: right?
• 1:56:16
  when we pick this conversation up again and listen as we're going
• 1:56:19
  to we're gonna plunder that suki mind as much as we possibly can.
• 1:56:23
  That suki mind.
• 1:56:25
  I would like to talk more about sensing and listening because I feel that that
• 1:56:32
  is, if the nervous system's at the root of everything and it is sensing
• 1:56:36
  and listening, right, it is to listen.
• 1:56:39
  To hear is a sense, to feel is a sense, but it's all taking in the information.
• 1:56:44
  Noticing, as you say, it sounds such a banal thing to notice.
• 1:56:50
  But as you say, we're taught to override on notice, which means we're
• 1:56:55
  taught to override our intuition.
• 1:56:57
  Which means that we might not sense when someone is scamming us, or whatever,
• 1:57:03
  because our intuition is suppressed.
• 1:57:06
  Presumably that's not helpful.
• 1:57:11
  How do we What nervous system work can we do to get back to that more optimal state
• 1:57:21
  where we can sense, kind of, correct, navigate, perhaps, better through life.
• 1:57:30
  Can we pick that up next
• 1:57:34
  Sukie Baxter: time?
• 1:57:35
  Absolutely.
• 1:57:38
  Rupert Isaacson: So that's a bit of a cliffhanger, guys.
• 1:57:41
  But at least you know how to make a YouTube video work and you know
• 1:57:44
  how to listen to your body a bit.
• 1:57:47
  But the listening goes deeper.
• 1:57:49
  And I want to explore this.
• 1:57:51
  So, with your permission, Suki, I think we'll make a date and
• 1:57:57
  go for a round two of this.
• 1:57:59
  So, yeah.
• 1:58:01
  I would love that.
• 1:58:02
  As, I presume a lot of people are driving their cars as they're listening to this.
• 1:58:06
  If you've got, as you sign off, and we also, I want people to
• 1:58:10
  know where they can find you.
• 1:58:11
  So I want you to give the websites and all of that.
• 1:58:14
  Emails, everything they can do as they sign off and they're
• 1:58:18
  driving their car right now.
• 1:58:21
  What would you like them to notice and how
• 1:58:24
  Sukie Baxter: your peripheral vision that's something that
• 1:58:28
  you can actually notice while you're driving is become aware.
• 1:58:31
  So you don't have to even move your eyes.
• 1:58:32
  You can keep them on the road just as you are, which is the safest thing.
• 1:58:36
  But just as you are looking forward to notice that you can see.
• 1:58:40
  In your peripheral vision, notice the light at the sides of your eyes.
• 1:58:44
  Notice that you see movement along the side of the road.
• 1:58:47
  So you're, you're still looking ahead.
• 1:58:49
  You're still keeping your eyes on the road, but you're
• 1:58:51
  expanding that field of vision.
• 1:58:54
  And what that does is a couple of things.
• 1:58:57
  It helps your nervous system shift into that parasympathetic state.
• 1:59:00
  But it also gives your brain new context, right?
• 1:59:02
  Because if you're just tunnel vision on one thing.
• 1:59:06
  Your brain's only taking in that very narrow field of vision, so as soon as
• 1:59:09
  you begin to notice that you actually see quite a lot more than maybe you're
• 1:59:13
  noticing that you're seeing, it's, it's now sending more information to
• 1:59:17
  your brain about your environment, now giving new context, now, now
• 1:59:21
  giving new cues to what's going on.
• 1:59:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:59:28
  I'm going to be getting in my car soon.
• 1:59:29
  I'm going to do it.
• 1:59:29
  I was actually doing that sitting here in the room as you were talking that,
• 1:59:33
  and I'm noticing the daybed that's here in the office that's off to my right.
• 1:59:38
  I'm not looking at it, but I can actually see the striped blanket
• 1:59:41
  on it now, my peripheral vision, and I can see the window to my
• 1:59:46
  left out of my, and it's true.
• 1:59:48
  It, it feels oddly enough, a little bit
• 1:59:51
  Sukie Baxter: liberating to do that.
• 1:59:53
  It's more spacious, especially when you've been staring at a screen.
• 1:59:56
  And this is such a great practice.
• 1:59:57
  So like when you go from a screen to your car.
• 2:00:00
  You know, you can get out of this tiny little, I have a laptop, so
• 2:00:04
  my screen is actually pretty small.
• 2:00:05
  This tiny little box that your eyes have been focused on and actually remind your
• 2:00:10
  brain and your body that you have this huge 360 degree environment around you.
• 2:00:16
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's a wonderful thing.
• 2:00:19
  All right.
• 2:00:20
  So how do people find you Suki?
• 2:00:22
  Sukie Baxter: Well, my website is fullbodyrevolution.
• 2:00:26
  com.
• 2:00:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Whole Body Revolution.
• 2:00:29
  Yep.
• 2:00:30
  W, not just an H, presumably.
• 2:00:32
  Sukie Baxter: Yes, W, with a W.
• 2:00:34
  Yes, as in Whole Foods.
• 2:00:35
  Whole Foods, Whole Body Revolution.
• 2:00:37
  Exactly.
• 2:00:38
  Dot com.
• 2:00:39
  Dot
• 2:00:39
  Rupert Isaacson: com.
• 2:00:40
  WholeBodyRevolution.
• 2:00:41
  com.
• 2:00:42
  Okay.
• 2:00:43
  Sukie Baxter: And that's my home on the web.
• 2:00:45
  And then I'm obviously on YouTube and it's youtube.
• 2:00:48
  com forward slash Suki Baxter spelled S U K I E B A X T E R.
• 2:00:54
  And I'm sure
• 2:00:55
  Rupert Isaacson: you'll think of it again email,
• 2:00:59
  Sukie Baxter: Hello at whole body revolution.
• 2:01:01
  com.
• 2:01:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Oh, I like that.
• 2:01:04
  I I'm so boring with my info and my admin at you have hello at God.
• 2:01:09
  I'm not worthy.
• 2:01:10
  I
• 2:01:14
  Sukie Baxter: don't think
• 2:01:14
  Rupert Isaacson: that's true.
• 2:01:16
  So hello at wholebodyrevolution.
• 2:01:18
  com.
• 2:01:19
  Yes.
• 2:01:20
  Cool.
• 2:01:21
  Hello at wholebodyrevolution.
• 2:01:23
  com to email Suki and wholebodyrevolution.
• 2:01:27
  com to check out the website and the online courses.
• 2:01:33
  Yes.
• 2:01:34
  Okay.
• 2:01:35
  To tap into the nature of desire, how can one resist and
• 2:01:39
  nurture that nervous system?
• 2:01:41
  All right.
• 2:01:41
  So Suki, thank you so much.
• 2:01:45
  Thank you so much for
• 2:01:46
  Sukie Baxter: having me.
• 2:01:47
  Rupert Isaacson: You've given us a ton here.
• 2:01:51
  Everything from, it's, it's what I love is it's also practical.
• 2:01:54
  This is what you can do for your body.
• 2:01:56
  This is what you can do to optimize your YouTube video.
• 2:02:00
  This is what you can do to nurture yourself more.
• 2:02:03
  This is what you can do to free yourself from certain types of past trauma.
• 2:02:07
  You've been so informative and so generous with your knowledge.
• 2:02:10
  I'm, I'm, I'm grateful.
• 2:02:11
  I'm, I'm walking away with tools for myself.
• 2:02:14
  telomere is.
• 2:02:16
  T E L O M E R E.
• 2:02:18
  Wonderful.
• 2:02:19
  Which is clearly.
• 2:02:20
  Taken up with genetics.
• 2:02:21
  So I want to look at the these effects of stress on genetics Which
• 2:02:25
  it must be the aging thing, but I wasn't aware of those until today.
• 2:02:29
  Thank you whole body revolution Okay, everybody, you know where to go.
• 2:02:36
  So I'm gonna press that dreaded red button Suki, thank you Thank you again.
• 2:02:43
  See you next time.
• 2:02:44
  Thank you for joining us.
• 2:02:45
  We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
• 2:02:47
  Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online
• 2:02:53
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• 2:02:58
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• 2:03:03
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• 2:03:05
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• 2:03:09
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• 2:03:13
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• 2:03:19
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• 2:03:24
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• 2:03:25
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