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18 - From Unsafe to Contained: Jared DeValk's Story · Masculine Containment

• 0:01
  Welcome.
• 0:01
  Today I have the privilege of speaking with Jared DeVolk, who was a member of our second Brotherhood container, a very active member on the calls, sharing his story, sharing what was going on, and also really active in our chat group.
• 0:13
  I'm so excited to hear Jared's story of being in the Brotherhood and learning masculine containment.
• 0:19
  Jared, thank you so much.
• 0:20
  I'm honored that you joined me today.
• 0:22
  Thanks, Alex.
• 0:24
  Yeah, a pleasure to have you here, brother.
• 0:26
  Let's jump in.
• 0:28
  I want to share a little bit first, or I'd like you to share a little bit first, like before the brotherhood, what was going on for you?
• 0:34
  What brought you to us?
• 0:37
  Yeah, so...
• 0:40
  I, you know, when I was 23, I was about to have my first child, and I had lost my dad in a tragic swimming accident.
• 0:50
  So, like, right as I was becoming a father, I had lost the...
• 0:56
  you know, the role model that I had for what a father should be.
• 1:01
  And just spent a long time, you know, trying to figure life out on my own and just didn't have a lot of good role models along the way of what a father and a man should be, whether it just be
• 1:20
  you know, trying to throw myself into work and, um, you know, and even finding improper role models in the church.
• 1:28
  Um, you know, just spent a lot of time reaching in, in the dark and, and not really having anything to hold on to.
• 1:36
  Um, and I would say my breaking point when happened, when, um,
• 1:44
  me and my wife, she kind of hit a point to where she wanted to be separated.
• 1:51
  And during that separation, there was a low point in that period where she had expressed to me that I was an unsafe man.
• 2:04
  And...
• 2:06
  Hearing that, initially, I met that with a lot of anger and frustration and confusion.
• 2:14
  And then after getting through that came a lot of curiosity and wondering what that meant and trying to find purpose behind that.
• 2:26
  And leading up into that point, I just found issues with finding direction.
• 2:36
  I was always led towards entrepreneurship and had successful businesses and ventures that I had gone down, but always got really bored with those things and would always try to look for something new and just really had a –
• 2:59
  It really needed to step up and become the leader I was intended to be, and I never could.
• 3:05
  And I never really understood, like, what the problem was and why I couldn't figure it out.
• 3:11
  But the point where I was told that I was an unsafe man, that was a real low point for me and a real turning point.
• 3:20
  And coincidentally, that's when you started posting on social media again.
• 3:26
  So, like, literally, you started posting right at the time that I heard that message.
• 3:33
  And when you started posting at first, I...
• 3:39
  objected to what you said and I would like type up responses to it of like this is unfair this can't be right and and then I would not post them I would just delete them and and then as I started reading more your stuff I you know was just at like a real low point and a point of frustration and you you put out that invitation and
• 4:05
  to join the container.
• 4:07
  And at that point, I was like, well, like, I need to change something.
• 4:12
  And, you know, after seeing you constantly post, like, something was starting to click.
• 4:20
  And I felt that this was the direction that I needed to go to make a real change.
• 4:27
  Jared, when my wife, Katie, I remember the day she said, I don't feel seen.
• 4:32
  I don't feel heard.
• 4:33
  I don't feel safe.
• 4:34
  And if something doesn't change, I can't do this anymore.
• 4:37
  Take me back to that moment where you heard a similar message.
• 4:41
  Like you said that you felt anger, frustration, confusion, but like, take me back to that moment.
• 4:45
  What did it feel like for you?
• 4:47
  If you can get back to that.
• 4:51
  I would say, like, when I hear the words unsafe, I think of the, I think of, like, I felt like I was being called an abuser.
• 5:04
  Like, I felt like I was being accused of domestic violence.
• 5:11
  And that just, and that anger and that frustration was, I felt like.
• 5:20
  I felt like I was given a label that was unfair.
• 5:23
  Like it wasn't.
• 5:30
  what I thought of as being an unsafe man.
• 5:36
  I thought unsafe men were the ones that were manipulative and sexually abusive and physically abusive and cheated and did all these other things that society openly did
• 5:56
  Labels as violence.
• 5:58
  And I didn't really have a full understanding of what that meant.
• 6:03
  So that's where a lot of that confusion came from.
• 6:05
  It's like, why the hell is she saying that I'm unsafe?
• 6:10
  Like, you know, with everything that she's experienced in her past and abuse and whatnot.
• 6:18
  And, you know, having an alcoholic father and all that.
• 6:22
  It's like...
• 6:23
  and you're going to call me unsafe?
• 6:25
  Like, that was the, you know, again, that was where that confusion came from.
• 6:31
  It's like, why me?
• 6:33
  Like, what about me makes me unsafe?
• 6:37
  Now, when you look back, Jared, can you see what wasn't working in your life or in your relationship before the brotherhood?
• 6:43
  100%.
• 6:45
  Yeah.
• 6:46
  You know, I can see how,
• 6:50
  the inability to contain my emotions, you know, and I can just see that pattern throughout the years and what it's cost me.
• 7:00
  And, you know, I, I've still been able to push through it in certain times and, and still like been successful in other areas in spite of it.
• 7:12
  But,
• 7:14
  It's definitely cost me momentum and progress that I could have made in not only in my relationship, but in other areas of my life.
• 7:23
  Yeah.
• 7:23
  Take us a little deeper into that.
• 7:24
  When you say that it's cost you, Jared, now in retrospect, and hindsight's always 20-20 for you and I both, what do you think it cost you?
• 7:37
  Well, I'd say like one of the big things that I've shared in the Brotherhood is just my struggles with, you know, with cannabis and using that to numb emotions that I've felt.
• 7:54
  And, you know, you talk a lot about like the entrepreneurial personality type and how like
• 8:01
  You know, we've all been diagnosed with things like ADHD and all that and can't sit still.
• 8:08
  And we feel like we're something's broken with us when we feel these feelings and using different things, not just cannabis, but whether it's food or work or alcohol or or video games or whatever I've used in the past to.
• 8:33
  To try to numb those emotions, that's taken a lot of time and a lot of creative energy that I could have put into accomplishing greater things or just...
• 8:48
  you know, spending time meditating and breathing to actually feel the way that I do want to feel.
• 8:58
  And that's, you know, at peace and realizing like feeling that that peace is also, you know, it's, it's probably taken some years off my life too, that, you know, I won't be able to see until later on in life, but.
• 9:17
  That and relationships with people that we're worthy of maintaining relationships with.
• 9:28
  And then also having relationships and spending time on people that didn't deserve it and didn't deserve my time.
• 9:35
  So that's where a lot of that's...
• 9:40
  I feel, and just like the additional and unnecessary pain and heartache that I've had to go through not being contained.
• 9:50
  So relatable, Jared, all of it, like every bit of it.
• 9:55
  You said that you had this breaking point.
• 9:57
  Just for context, how old are you now?
• 10:00
  38.
• 10:01
  Okay.
• 10:02
  So I just want everyone to kind of have a timeline in their head.
• 10:04
  So you said that you saw me posting, you created arguments against it, you never posted, but then you joined the container.
• 10:14
  And so take us through, like, did you have a realization of, oh, man, this is why I'm not safe?
• 10:22
  Yeah, I would say the biggest thing was like one of the initial things you pointed out was just how...
• 10:31
  how it must or how it does look from the feminine's perspective you know my my partner is five foot four and i'm six foot six foot one 200 something pounds of solid muscle like if i'm
• 10:54
  you know, getting into my emotions and, you know, getting overexcited and being overanimated, just how threatening that looks.
• 11:05
  And even though I, you know, wouldn't lay a hand on her,
• 11:11
  how scary, especially with trauma that she's had to deal with early on in life before we got together, just how intimidating and scary that must feel.
• 11:24
  And having that realization and putting myself in her shoes, that was a big place for me to,
• 11:33
  And also just realizing, like, the other thing, the realization that I came across is just how, you know, whenever we're doing that and allowing our emotions to take us a place that we don't necessarily want to be going in, we get back into our inner child and we're just a child throwing a fit at that point.
• 11:55
  Instead of a man calmly leading through a storm.
• 11:59
  Yeah.
• 12:00
  Yeah.
• 12:01
  Man, Jared, you described that so well.
• 12:05
  If you can, can you take us back to the moment where that landed in your body?
• 12:08
  Like, I remember doing the research and like there was a day where I was like, holy crap, like this is what it feels like for her.
• 12:16
  And it took me like, it took a while to put it all together and like to not be so frustrated with myself.
• 12:24
  Like, can you take us back to that moment when you realized like, hey, this is what it feels like on her side?
• 12:28
  What was it like for you?
• 12:32
  I mean, there is an immense amount of shame and guilt for the past and what I've put her through, what I've put my kids through, what other people in certain work situations have had to deal with for me.
• 13:02
  Again, like that guilt and shame of saying like, this is not the person that I want to show up as.
• 13:10
  And just thinking that I want to try to do whatever I can to not be that person going forward.
• 13:19
  So good.
• 13:21
  So you already kind of told us the moment where you knew something had to change.
• 13:24
  You were confronted by her.
• 13:25
  So tell us about joining the Brotherhood.
• 13:28
  Like, what encouraged you to join?
• 13:30
  You got on the call, and what made you continue?
• 13:35
  I would say the biggest thing was just seeing how I wasn't the only one dealing with this and how, like...
• 13:49
  How every like when I would talk to people, you know, of course, everybody's situation is different, but it's so very similar.
• 14:01
  The emotions, the escalation, the repair, like all the that whole process.
• 14:08
  And it's almost like a repeatable process.
• 14:11
  Like it got to the point to where I could almost like after joining the Brotherhood, like I would I would definitely still have slip ups while I'm like trying to learn everything and get all the practices down.
• 14:24
  But like even to the point to where if I would have a bad conversation.
• 14:28
  Like, it was almost like a predictable timeframe of when repair could happen.
• 14:34
  Like, I already knew, like, okay, this happened.
• 14:37
  I messed up this day.
• 14:39
  I can't say shit tonight.
• 14:43
  And nothing can happen probably the next day.
• 14:46
  But the day after that...
• 14:48
  there was like, it was like almost predictable that that's when we could come back and repair and try to, you know, come back at that point.
• 14:59
  So, but it was just seeing how like,
• 15:04
  And even like doing the practices, just the immense relief and the release of tension and pressure and just how amazing that felt and how different aspects of the brotherhood.
• 15:25
  You know, just those effects and also those effects whenever I would like skip out on certain things and seeing how.
• 15:38
  Seeing the effects of of not practicing containment and and and how like it's so important that us as men need to continue to do that and need to really have a discipline around.
• 15:53
  masculine containment so good jared you know um you you brought it up you brought up this concept of repair and you know i often share with people that in my relationship i became an expert at repair because so much relationship advice is all about repairing when you look back at it now how do you feel about that advice that told you like hey all you have to do is repair um um
• 16:22
  It's, you know, it just seems like such an untrue cliché.
• 16:29
  Yeah.
• 16:33
  You know, you always watch these movies about the abusive husband who makes a lot of money and they would have some kind of – they would have – you know, he would have the abuse and then he would come back with, oh, here's a diamond necklace or a bracelet or flowers or this wonderful vacation to try to make it better.
• 16:55
  But it doesn't make it better because –
• 16:58
  While, you know, like, eventually the woman realizes, like, oh, no, he's an abuser.
• 17:06
  And at some point, and in the movies, you know, even in the movies, like, it gets to the point to where, oh, now my life is actually at stake.
• 17:16
  And, you know...
• 17:19
  And seeing how, like, if you don't actually fix the cause of the abuse and stop the abuse, then the repair doesn't matter.
• 17:30
  Because all that that person can remember is the abuse.
• 17:35
  Yeah.
• 17:36
  Yeah, the uncontainment.
• 17:39
  What did you actually start doing differently when you joined the Brotherhood?
• 17:42
  Like, what shifted for you?
• 17:44
  What changed for you as a person?
• 17:48
  I would say, like, one of the big things is just understanding that, you know, I would—I've always—you know, it's always been instilled to me to have this servant mentality.
• 18:09
  And so much so that I would almost build a resentment around doing so.
• 18:20
  One of the things that – one of the big things that I've changed is being more intentional about how I serve and understanding, like, there are certain things that I just can't do anymore.
• 18:36
  And there are certain ways that I just can't stand up and don't need to stand up.
• 18:42
  You know, it's not my circus, not my monkeys is, you know, is a great analogy.
• 18:50
  I know I've got another analogy for that.
• 18:52
  I've tried to keep it somewhat PG, but it's that idea of like, I have a mission in this world.
• 19:00
  And if I try to help everyone...
• 19:04
  without staying on mission, that's going to take away from what my true purpose is.
• 19:10
  So it's starting to get me to where I'm saying yes with intention and saying no to more things that take me off that intention.
• 19:25
  And it's just, and it's a, like, it's a, it's a presence, right?
• 19:30
  Like, yeah.
• 19:31
  And I know I've talked about this too, about how I've become more attractive in the sense that, both in the sense that people want to be around me more and people notice me more, both male and female.
• 19:50
  And I have this different energy that I put off from being more at peace and being more contained.
• 19:59
  I often tell men, you know, I think a lot of men feel like containment means slowing down.
• 20:04
  Containment means not doing as much.
• 20:06
  Containment means not accomplishing as much.
• 20:09
  But I often share like when you slow things down, you get so much more done.
• 20:13
  You know, in the brotherhood, we say slow is fast and fast is slow.
• 20:16
  Can you reflect on that a little, Jared, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as a husband, as a father?
• 20:23
  Yes.
• 20:24
  Yeah.
• 20:26
  You know, like one of the main things is like the time in neutral and how we as men get so much.
• 20:38
  And like I recognize with this emotion quite a bit and this feeling that we get most of our value from the value that we can provide.
• 20:48
  And.
• 20:50
  spending that time in neutral where you're just doing nothing, right?
• 20:55
  Like you're just spending time just being...
• 20:59
  Or even like not having guilt around, okay, you know, I'm going to stop working at this point because I'm 38.
• 21:11
  I'm not getting any younger and my body needs to take this time and rest.
• 21:15
  And then when I wake up the next day, like I'm waking up before my alarm and I'm waking up like ready to go and I'm more productive now.
• 21:24
  at the work that I need to be doing instead of trying to overextend myself.
• 21:30
  And it's, you know, and before, like, I might have felt guilt about a work project that wasn't getting done when I'm trying to do my workout.
• 21:40
  And I still have those interfering thoughts that come in and say, oh, this thing really needs to get done.
• 21:45
  And I'm like, no, screw that.
• 21:47
  Like, this is 45 minutes to yourself.
• 21:51
  to spend on working on yourself, you need to do this.
• 21:57
  And the value of that is that when you do sit down and focus on that project, you are going to be more present and more in tune with that project and able to go deeper into that project.
• 22:11
  And same with, like, my family life.
• 22:14
  You know, I used to feel guilty about doing things for myself.
• 22:18
  And one of the big things for me is, you know, two years ago I started playing these Irish sports.
• 22:26
  And through the process of this brotherhood this year, I've become more intentional with my training and my physiology.
• 22:37
  And...
• 22:39
  When I started showing up to our regular trainings, I'm constantly getting comments about, Jared, you're zooming around.
• 22:48
  You have more energy.
• 22:49
  You're more focused.
• 22:51
  And just you're playing better.
• 22:53
  You're stepping up.
• 22:54
  You're leading on the field.
• 22:57
  All these things.
• 22:58
  Because sports has such a direct correlation to life.
• 23:03
  It's an arena that you show up in.
• 23:05
  And...
• 23:07
  being present and being aware and leading on the field is, is there's such a, a relation to, to doing that in life as well.
• 23:19
  You know, I tell men that masculine containment will not take capacity away.
• 23:23
  It actually gives it back to you.
• 23:25
  And it sounds like that's exactly what happened to you.
• 23:28
  Yeah.
• 23:29
  Yeah.
• 23:30
  It's, it's,
• 23:31
  It's made it to where, you know, and I'm also more honest with people because as entrepreneurs, you know, we get people that come to us all the time.
• 23:41
  And I used to call it the curse of competence where people would come and say, oh, hey, I need you to do this.
• 23:49
  And, you know, hey, I want you to do this.
• 23:51
  And, you know, even good friends that like before I would I would like not want to let down myself.
• 23:58
  But I actually told one guy, I had a really good opportunity, but I just didn't have the bandwidth to take it on.
• 24:05
  I was like, hey, I really want to do this, but I just can't do it right now.
• 24:09
  I believe in what you're doing, but I don't have the energy to give to you what you deserve.
• 24:17
  And he completely respected that and appreciated the fact that –
• 24:21
  I can be that honest with him and allow him to move on instead of just like in the past I might have like left it open or not not responded sometimes even worse.
• 24:32
  So.
• 24:35
  Like just being able to give people that clarity.
• 24:40
  which is something that I feel like is something that I want so big in my life.
• 24:47
  And it's kind of funny how the things that you want the most are the things that you need to start giving the most of.
• 24:55
  So if you want clarity in your life, you need to start giving other people clarity.
• 25:01
  And so just seeing how that's played out and how I've been not as scared
• 25:11
  To tell people exactly how I feel, you know, of course, in a respectful and contained way and not letting resentment build and explode and, you know, and then have to ruin relationships and...
• 25:29
  repair them, you know, like trying to avoid that on the, on the, you know, just realizing when those things are starting to build and when I'm starting to be pushed to my limits and, you know, understanding where those limits are.
• 25:46
  Cause I think before I would just ignore those limits and think that I could push through it or work through it or, you know, listen to some music to, to help me get through it.
• 25:57
  But,
• 25:58
  But yeah, I would say just the intentional presence is probably the best way to sum all that up is just understanding what my capacity is and how to best use it effectively so I can achieve the greatest effects from it.
• 26:17
  If you can, Jared, take us back to like what did it used to feel like in your body when you were doing those things of like maybe telling somebody you might be there or saying you're going to show up when you're not really sure you can or, you know, blowing somebody off to now just being direct and honest and contained with them.
• 26:34
  Like how does that feel in your body?
• 26:36
  We talk a lot about embodiment.
• 26:37
  Share that with us.
• 26:38
  I mean, before it was like trying to hold a pressure in and trying to hold this tightness and just constantly feeling that stress of the should dos.
• 26:57
  Like, oh, I should respond to this person.
• 26:59
  I should do this.
• 27:01
  And then just continuing to push it out and push it out and push it out and push it out.
• 27:06
  And that pressure just building and building.
• 27:10
  And not only that, but it's the damage that you're doing to that relationship that you respect and want to maintain in your life.
• 27:20
  You know, because there's that saying that you're the average of your five or six best friends.
• 27:26
  And, you know, I definitely don't want to...
• 27:32
  ruin any of those type of positive relationships in my life because those are so important for us as men so just that stress and i mean even in and like holding that in and not responding to certain things would would build a guilt and almost like a responsibility that was just weighing on me and so i i would say like
• 27:56
  pressure being held in and me like fighting as hard as possible to hold that pressure.
• 28:04
  Whereas like going and telling someone no or a definitive yes, because it aligns like,
• 28:14
  There's a relief.
• 28:15
  There's a – it gives you energy to be able to say just respectfully like, hey, I can't do that.
• 28:30
  Or like with clients, with saying, hey, like –
• 28:37
  That's really not something that I can handle for you.
• 28:39
  I can, you know, do the best I can to help you find someone that can do that.
• 28:43
  But that's really not what you hire me for.
• 28:47
  And this isn't this is I'm not going to be the best to help you with that.
• 28:52
  But I'll do what I can to help you find someone.
• 28:56
  And I.
• 28:58
  I'm starting to notice that my clients and my business are more receptive to that and more appreciative to that because it doesn't waste any of their time.
• 29:07
  So it's like it's me actually doing them a service by being honest with them as quickly as I can be.
• 29:18
  So glad you shared that because I think so many entrepreneurs have a fear of letting people down.
• 29:23
  But the reality is when we commit to something we can't do or are not going to be good at or try and do something that's not really what we should be doing, that's really where we let people down.
• 29:33
  Yeah, and also, too, like, you know, I think it's okay to take on things that we can't do if they're part of like a developmental edge for you.
• 29:43
  But then it's also being honest about like –
• 29:47
  Hey, I haven't really done that, but I'm willing to give this a shot for you.
• 29:52
  If you're if you, you know, if you have the understanding that, hey, look, I'm going to give everything I have, but this is an area of unknown.
• 29:59
  This is new territory for me.
• 30:02
  And if we can go at this together, I'd love to give this a shot for you.
• 30:09
  And then give them the ability to say yes or no.
• 30:13
  Because I've done that.
• 30:15
  And sometimes they'll say, well, you know, we actually want to try to find someone that has experience in this.
• 30:19
  I'm like, hey, no problem.
• 30:21
  You know, it's like I engage in projects now.
• 30:32
  since going through the brotherhood is like going down projects and that I don't really have experience with, whether it be with like AI or coding or, or whatnot.
• 30:45
  And,
• 30:47
  And really just being able to dive deeper in it and stick with it and push through the frustration of being new and learning something new.
• 30:57
  But yeah, it's that ability to be able to speak your truth to someone else and how, like you said, you're building the capacity for yourself by not leaking it out in other areas.
• 31:17
  So relatable.
• 31:19
  So tell us a little about what's different now.
• 31:22
  I'd like to specifically go back to one thing that so many people in the brotherhood brought up.
• 31:26
  You very transparently and deliberately brought it up in our calls and you brought it up here.
• 31:33
  What's your relationship with cannabis now?
• 31:37
  Um, I made the commitment to abstain from cannabis for the year.
• 31:47
  And I would say like the first few weeks of doing that were pretty brutal.
• 31:55
  Um, yeah.
• 31:59
  I would say the most interesting thing was just understanding how cannabis blocks emotions and dulls those emotions and how intense they became during that period.
• 32:15
  But now, without having stimulants in my body...
• 32:22
  just how much capacity I have for my emotions, to feel my emotions, to breathe through my emotions, to understand when I'm about to break containment and be able to say, like, sometimes, like, I was in a conversation that was getting rather heated and I just became a broken record player.
• 32:47
  I said, hey...
• 32:49
  I don't think now's a good time to have this conversation.
• 32:53
  I'm at a point now where I'm starting to lose my hold of my emotions.
• 32:59
  Can we come back to this in a couple of days?
• 33:02
  And the person, the other person, the other person kept going.
• 33:06
  And so I said the same thing and then they kept going.
• 33:10
  And then I said the same thing and I stood my ground and they eventually realized, oh, can't.
• 33:17
  We're not having this conversation right now.
• 33:21
  And they stopped.
• 33:23
  And yeah, so I mean, I would it would be just understanding that.
• 33:31
  So like, whereas before, when, you know, if I would have had cannabis in my system, I
• 33:38
  It could have been, you know, the conversation would have gotten escalated or I would have just shut down altogether.
• 33:46
  And then.
• 33:47
  While using but being during a time that I wasn't under the influence, my.
• 33:56
  My fuse was shorter and I would explode faster and get into my emotions much quicker instead of staying contained.
• 34:07
  And the damage that that causes by saying things that you really don't mean.
• 34:12
  And or you might mean but aren't communicating effectively.
• 34:17
  And, you know, you tend to like I would tend to accuse people of being certain ways instead of focusing on how what they're doing is making me feel.
• 34:28
  So.
• 34:30
  Which is a much more effective way than, you know, coming from the place of right and wrong and morality.
• 34:37
  Yeah.
• 34:39
  starting with the thing that is true that no one can argue with is how you're feeling.
• 34:44
  So what I would say to that is, you know, will I ever have cannabis again?
• 34:53
  Maybe.
• 34:54
  But I definitely realize, like, it's something that I don't need in my life.
• 34:59
  And I.
• 35:01
  especially on a regular basis, doesn't have value in making me the man that I want to be.
• 35:10
  So good.
• 35:13
  One of the reasons that men come to the brotherhood is, like the biggest reason, is issues in their relationship.
• 35:19
  And you alluded to some of the issues that you were having in your relationship.
• 35:22
  You shared with us what your partner told you.
• 35:25
  What's different in your relationship now, Jared?
• 35:30
  So the big thing that's different is I would let that resentment build.
• 35:37
  I would – I'm someone who I'm perfectly fine with, you know, doing – for like my relaxation time, doing cooking and chores and working out in the yard and doing all that stuff.
• 35:59
  But then I would let resentment build because I felt like I was carrying a lot of that.
• 36:05
  And then it would come to like a Sunday on the weekend and nobody else is helped out in the house.
• 36:15
  I get frustrated and that turns into an argument or me being passive aggressive or me stomping through the house.
• 36:24
  So – and then also like just general like the avoidance of saying the hard things of how I'm feeling.
• 36:34
  Yeah.
• 36:35
  And then whenever I get into conversations of allowing the way someone else talks and, you know, the mother of my children, like allowing her and the way she's talking to try to affect me.
• 36:51
  And even as much as last night had a conversation and she was saying some things that were really inflammatory and something that I would have...
• 37:02
  not done before is I breathe through those emotions and, um,
• 37:09
  I stayed calm and I communicated how I'm feeling and I communicated the boundaries that I needed to set.
• 37:19
  Before I would have said like, oh, well, you need to do this and you need to do that.
• 37:23
  And you're not doing this and you're not doing that.
• 37:26
  And instead I focused on the boundary of the things that I'm holding and how I can't continue holding these things.
• 37:36
  And I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I'm telling you that this thing is not working for me.
• 37:43
  And just that shift in how I'm communicating has been a totally different shift because no matter how that other person is getting into their emotions, I need to maintain my calmness.
• 37:57
  And I need to make sure that because it's kind of like the issue with the person like continuing to try to push the conversation.
• 38:05
  And it was more so that like they were getting too energetic and adding too much energy into the situation.
• 38:14
  And it was causing me, I could feel myself.
• 38:17
  I didn't lose containment, but I could feel that emotion building up inside of me.
• 38:23
  And I could feel that energy building up.
• 38:26
  And understanding that I have the power to be able to stop this right now and not permanently, not avoid it, and give that person the opportunity for us to come back and talk about it further.
• 38:44
  But, you know, but just being able to know that I've got the power to stop that conversation and the power is not me exploding back at them with emotion and adding violent energy to that situation.
• 39:01
  It's the calm, broken record player like that.
• 39:06
  no, we're not having this conversation.
• 39:08
  It's not going to be fruitful at this point.
• 39:12
  I need an opportunity to relax and calm down, and we're not having this conversation.
• 39:19
  And then it's just keep repeating that.
• 39:21
  And how, like, you know, in a fight, it takes two people to have a fight.
• 39:29
  And if one person doesn't engage, then the other person...
• 39:35
  They might try, but and especially if it's a female like she can go ahead and try.
• 39:41
  Heck, she can probably even try to get physical with me.
• 39:43
  But if I don't fight back, then.
• 39:49
  She's probably going to get tired of trying to come back at me and it's not going to go anywhere.
• 39:54
  And that realization was was just really empowering for me of like, you know, because us as men, we.
• 40:03
  There is, like, this, you know, societal pressure to, like, be ready to fight and fighting and all that.
• 40:13
  But it's...
• 40:16
  And a lot of what's taught in martial arts is the ability to not fight and to de-escalate a situation.
• 40:25
  And I would say getting into that more has been such a big shift for me instead of continuing to engage.
• 40:34
  Because the household dynamic that I grew up in is that...
• 40:38
  We would fight it out.
• 40:40
  Like we would have those arguments until, you know, we thought we were getting resolution, but really we were just getting tired out and people gave up and went to bed at that point.
• 40:54
  So, but, and, you know, just that understanding of how that's not fruitful.
• 40:59
  And if anything, it's, it can be more damaging to do that.
• 41:06
  I you're it's just it's it's interesting listening to you Jared because I remember talking to you on some of those early calls and it's like the cadence of your voice has changed the presence that I feel like I've felt body chills every time several times during this conversation because you're so embodied in this work.
• 41:23
  I just want to congratulate you on that.
• 41:25
  I mean it really is extraordinary.
• 41:27
  And again you know.
• 41:29
  You joined the Brotherhood, but you also really did the work.
• 41:32
  And I want everyone out there to know that.
• 41:34
  Like, this is work.
• 41:35
  It's like a martial art.
• 41:37
  If a man's listening and relates to your story and relates to where you're coming from, what would you say to him?
• 41:48
  Be open.
• 41:50
  I mean, you know...
• 41:54
  Most of the men that are in this group are not young men in this, like... We've tried so many different things throughout life.
• 42:08
  And...
• 42:10
  You know, and I've mentioned, like, you know, having these vices throughout my time.
• 42:15
  Like, when I played too many video games, it's like, okay, maybe I need to stop.
• 42:18
  Maybe I need to get rid of the game system, and that'll help make things better.
• 42:21
  And it didn't, because I didn't fix the underlying problems.
• 42:24
  And so...
• 42:28
  I would say the big advice is just there's a lot of information out there about how men and women are equal.
• 42:37
  And we need to have this these equal rights of or I shouldn't say equal.
• 42:43
  Right.
• 42:43
  But like we should be.
• 42:46
  Yeah, we should be we should be treated equally.
• 42:49
  And that's just not the case.
• 42:50
  Like we as men have a higher responsibility to contain our emotions.
• 42:59
  and lead in a certain way.
• 43:00
  Yeah, I would say the biggest thing for me is that, like, there was a part of me that came into this thinking that, oh, this is going to fix my marriage.
• 43:09
  But, yeah, I don't know if our marriage is going to live through this.
• 43:17
  Like, I don't know if the damage that's been done already is going to be repairable.
• 43:30
  through that and still choose respect for myself is something that's so important.
• 43:38
  So my biggest advice is like, if you go through this, you are going to get clarity on, and you, and if you go through this and you commit to the practices and you commit to masculine containment, you are going to get a clarity on.
• 43:57
  that is going to take you to a better place.
• 44:02
  And that may not be a place that you envision it.
• 44:08
  Like I grew up in the church.
• 44:09
  I grew up in like, once you get married, like you don't separate.
• 44:14
  And, you know, but it's that realization of like, well, maybe during this process, leadership looks like,
• 44:24
  me choosing myself and allowing us to live separate lives.
• 44:29
  I don't know.
• 44:31
  That could be where it goes.
• 44:32
  But it's being open to the discipline of masculine containment and being open to leading a contained life and being the best man that you need to be for yourself and for those around you.
• 44:54
  I often share with men that when you understand masculine containment, you start not seeing things as crisis.
• 45:00
  You start not seeing things as like this has to be this way.
• 45:04
  You start having this capacity for, hey, whatever happens, I'm going to be able to deal with it.
• 45:09
  And I feel like that's kind of what you just said.
• 45:11
  Like I got chills because I heard it in your words.
• 45:15
  Just tell us a little bit about that, Jared.
• 45:16
  Like what's that feeling like of knowing that, hey, whatever comes up, I've got this.
• 45:23
  It's understanding that we live in a dynamic changing world and that things aren't static.
• 45:30
  And, you know, maybe you're, maybe that, especially for those that are like really considering this, it's a realization that maybe your lack of containment got you into the relationship that you're currently in.
• 45:48
  Hmm.
• 45:50
  Or that you're currently coming out of.
• 45:53
  And maybe fully embracing masculine containment and embracing the discipline of the work that we do in the brotherhood is what will lead you...
• 46:08
  You know, you may not get into another relationship again, but if you do get into that relationship, you're going to come into it with clear eyes and a leadership that's going to make it something that is more beautiful than you could possibly have.
• 46:29
  Jared, I just want to thank you.
• 46:30
  I want to thank you for your transparency, for sharing so much of yourself, for jumping on this podcast.
• 46:36
  I know you did it to help other men, and I'm so honored by that.
• 46:40
  And I want to, again, congratulate you on your growth and the time that you put in, the discipline you put in, the reps that you put in in the practice.
• 46:48
  Clearly, it shows, brother, you feel like a changed man.
• 46:52
  And I'm so honored to know you and to call you a friend.
• 46:56
  Alex, I mean, first off, I got to say thank you.
• 46:59
  I mean, like, the pain and the suffering and the work that you stepped up and did.
• 47:07
  Like, I wouldn't be here doing this interview if you hadn't stepped up and said, this is a change that needs to be made, and I need to help other men make this change.
• 47:20
  So, like...
• 47:23
  If it weren't for you, I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't be making the changes that are going to affect us.
• 47:33
  not only myself, but also affect my kids and other men that come after me that go through this group and the effects that it's going to have on their families and future generations.
• 47:48
  So, you know, I, again, I'm only here because you stepped up and decided that this is a change that needs to happen.
• 48:00
  Thank you, brother.
• 48:01
  I'm so honored by those words, like deeply, deeply honored.
• 48:05
  If you're a man listening to this podcast and you're related to Jared or you can see yourself in his story or you'd like to understand the discipline of masculine containment, join us in the Brotherhood.
• 48:15
  You don't have to walk this path alone.
• 48:17
  We'd be honored to have you with us.
• 48:19
  You can go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com, fill out your information.
• 48:23
  If we're in an interview process, jump on an interview or join the wait list.
• 48:26
  And I look forward to meeting you personally.
• 48:28
  Jared, thanks again, brother.
• 48:30
  Thank you, Alex.