Latest / Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality / 050: Career Pivot: How to Know When It’s Time for a Change

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050: Career Pivot: How to Know When It’s Time for a Change · Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality

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Speaker 1: Before we jump into today's conversation. If you're enjoying exposing
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Speaker 2: Pooh, So what are we getting into today?
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Speaker 1: I thought we'd talk about career pivots, and I thought
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Speaker 1: we'd start first with something I think people often get
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Speaker 1: wrong about career pivots. We treat the result, the actual pivot,
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Speaker 1: as the pivot. And what I'm talking about is somebody
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Speaker 1: leaves a company, somebody changes industries, they go back to school,
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Speaker 1: they start a business, they take a completely different kind
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Speaker 1: of role on And most people would point to that
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Speaker 1: moment and say, that's that's the career pivot. Would you
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Speaker 1: agree with that?
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Speaker 2: I would agree that most people would point to it,
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Speaker 2: But I think it happens.
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Speaker 3: Before that.
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Speaker 1: I agree with you, And let's go like, how far
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Speaker 1: away before? I think it's month, years, sometimes years.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me jump right in there and say years.
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Speaker 1: Well, right, it could be years, And I've seen it
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Speaker 1: something happens in the moment and people are like, I'm
1:15
Speaker 1: out of here, and that decision is made, and then
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Speaker 1: they go in follow up and make the actions happen
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Speaker 1: to make the pivot happen. But usually it's very slow burn,
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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden people leave and everybody
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Speaker 1: else around them was like, how did that happen? Why
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Speaker 1: did that happen? But they don't know.
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Speaker 2: You know, I think about my career pivot out of corporate. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: it was a very slow burn for me, okay, And
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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because as you were explaining that,
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Speaker 2: and after I said, oh, it takes months and you
1:46
Speaker 2: said yeah, well, or it takes years, and you said,
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Speaker 2: well it could also just take months, I thought, yeah,
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Speaker 2: because I just take years period.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So you might be one of those people that
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Speaker 1: is years. Yes, is that what I'm here?
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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, I am definitely a year's.
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Speaker 1: Oh why I'm through that? Because what is happening or
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Speaker 1: what happened for you that made it a very slow
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Speaker 1: burn year's kind of process? Let's talk and so.
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Speaker 2: Let's distinguish between there were many times I moved to
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Speaker 2: different companies but stayed doing the same work. When I
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Speaker 2: talk about career pivots. I'm not talking about I switched companies.
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Speaker 2: Those decisions came relatively quickly for me. What I'm talking
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Speaker 2: about is I need to be doing something completely different
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Speaker 2: than what I'm currently doing because I can't see myself
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Speaker 2: doing what I'm doing right now somewhere else.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: For me, there were lots of career shifts that involved
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Speaker 2: moving to different companies but still kept doing the same
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Speaker 2: work that I was doing. The career pivot was really
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Speaker 2: much longer. It was I don't I don't feel happy,
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Speaker 2: I don't feel filled. I don't want to do what
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Speaker 2: I'm currently doing somewhere else because I am at a
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Speaker 2: company that I love, I work with people that I
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Speaker 2: really enjoy, and I've done this job in other companies,
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Speaker 2: so I know it's not going to get better just
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Speaker 2: by moving to a different company. Though, was that level
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Speaker 2: of certainty, The feeling underneath it was, this isn't what
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Speaker 2: I want to be doing anymore anymore, This isn't springing
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Speaker 2: me fulfillment. All huge part of it was I just
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Speaker 2: feel tired, and when I go to bed and I
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Speaker 2: wake up, I don't feel rested. I would drive home
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Speaker 2: from work and I would be in this constant panic
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Speaker 2: about getting to the kids on time, and then rushing
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Speaker 2: through dinner and my life and then feeling like, well,
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Speaker 2: I'm not spending any time living my life. I'm doing
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Speaker 2: a lot of things, but I'm not being in my life.
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Speaker 2: I'm not participating in my life. I don't see myself
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Speaker 2: shown up in my life in the ways that I
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Speaker 2: want to. I didn't feel energized, I didn't feel excited.
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Speaker 2: I felt empty, I felt numb in many ways, and
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Speaker 2: so I just knew that something, something had to give.
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Speaker 2: I'm curious in that. That was my experience. What do
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Speaker 2: you see when people come to see you.
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Speaker 1: What I see when women come to see me is
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Speaker 1: that something has shifted for them. And it could be
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Speaker 1: the work itself, like you were saying, I don't feel fulfilled,
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Speaker 1: or it could be a life circumstance has changed. And
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Speaker 1: I see this a lot. With their children. Something will
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Speaker 1: happen like, ooh, the kids are back in school now
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Speaker 1: I'm in a safe place where I can make a
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Speaker 1: big decision, or the kids are out of school, like
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Speaker 1: maybe they're adults and there's a time that they feel
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Speaker 1: like they can dedicate to themselves now and or there's
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Speaker 1: a big shift, like caregiving for a parent or a
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Speaker 1: loved one. So usually it coincides with a life change,
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Speaker 1: and then the things they were willing to tolerate before
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Speaker 1: become less and less tolerable. And I've been thinking about
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Speaker 1: it for a while. It didn't feel like a right time,
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Speaker 1: But now there feels like a natural break, and I'm
5:19
Speaker 1: going to take advantage of it.
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Speaker 2: It feels like that conversation we were having in one
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Speaker 2: of our earlier episodes where we said, everybody can do
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Speaker 2: something for a short period of time, what's it costing you?
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Speaker 2: For me personally? You know, when I was going through this,
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Speaker 2: I had gotten to a point where I had done
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Speaker 2: the things that I wanted to do in my life,
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Speaker 2: but I had finally gotten to the point where financially
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Speaker 2: I could make the decision to leave my life. Was
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Speaker 2: at a point where I realized the boys were nine,
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Speaker 2: they were going to turn ten that year, my daughter
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Speaker 2: was six, and I just thought, you know, the next
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Speaker 2: ten years of my boy's life is going to have
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Speaker 2: them moving aggressively further away from us. I just thought
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Speaker 2: it's slipping by, and I really felt like I wanted
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Speaker 2: to do something different, and again, It's not about making
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Speaker 2: it all about them. It was just that who I
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Speaker 2: was being, how I was showing up in my life,
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Speaker 2: and how I wanted to show up in my life
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Speaker 2: were very different. And I didn't want the kids growing
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Speaker 2: up out of the house and then looking back at
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Speaker 2: this time and saying mom was a ghost.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you were imagining your future, maybe even dreaming
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Speaker 1: about it, yes, and then what you saw if you
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Speaker 1: continued the same way that you were going was not
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Speaker 1: a reality you wanted to make come true, and thinking, yeah,
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Speaker 1: this could be different, and not just for you, but
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Speaker 1: for your whole family. Absolutely, And that's the imagination that
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Speaker 1: I hope career professionals can stop and take a few
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Speaker 1: moments for maybe not every day, but maybe every week,
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Speaker 1: definitely every month, and say what is it that I want?
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Speaker 1: What is it that I want to get out of it?
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Speaker 1: And so I talk a lot about helping people review
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Speaker 1: their success where they are, what they accomplished, and I
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Speaker 1: would say the same thing for your personal life. What
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Speaker 1: have you felt successful in in your personal life? What
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Speaker 1: have you accomplished? What do you wish was different? And
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Speaker 1: then evaluating those answers through a few different lens with
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Speaker 1: which is professional and personal, so that you are certain
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Speaker 1: that you're headed in the right direction and that you
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Speaker 1: won't look back on this part of your life and say,
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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I missed this.
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Speaker 3: I missed that, you know.
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Speaker 2: And it's so interesting because that's exactly what happens when
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Speaker 2: women come to see me. They'll say things like, oh,
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Speaker 2: I feel lost, I'm not sure what I want to
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Speaker 2: do sure, and I don't feel like this is just
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Speaker 2: about changing my job. So I go through a wheel
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Speaker 2: of life exercise with them on a scale of one
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Speaker 2: to five. How do you feel about your work? How
7:54
Speaker 2: do you feel about your spiritual life, your family, your finances,
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Speaker 2: your extended family, your education, community support. One of the
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Speaker 2: things that I find so interesting is that we live
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Speaker 2: in a culture focus so much on career that when
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Speaker 2: you start asking them about hobbies, when you start asking
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Speaker 2: them about things that have nothing to do with work,
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Speaker 2: there's like almost a panic, right, like, I don't have
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Speaker 2: time for all of this. Where am I supposed to
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Speaker 2: find time to have hobbies. I remember sitting there when
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Speaker 2: I was going through this for myself and thinking, I
8:30
Speaker 2: used to crochet, I used to draw, and I recently
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Speaker 2: posted about I have doodles that I find all over
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Speaker 2: the house, and I realized I hadn't been doing any
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Speaker 2: of that. I hadn't been doing any of that creative
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Speaker 2: work that is such a part of who I am.
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Speaker 2: And I think that's what happens to a lot of
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Speaker 2: high functioning women. We have so much unplate. Career is important,
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Speaker 2: then we bring on family, and then it just becomes
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Speaker 2: so overwhelmed that the last person we have time.
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Speaker 3: For is ourselves.
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Speaker 1: This, I think brings up a good question, and I'm
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Speaker 1: asking you about it because I feel like it's right
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Speaker 1: up your alley, and I know you'll have a good
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Speaker 1: piece of advice for all of our listeners. What happens
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Speaker 1: when the part of you that's saying this doesn't feel right.
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Speaker 1: I don't have time for hobbies, I'm never feeling rested.
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Speaker 1: What happens when that part of myself for ourselves is
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Speaker 1: at odds with the part that says I have so
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Speaker 1: many things to be grateful for. Well, for people have
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Speaker 1: it worse than me. Right, I hear that a lot.
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Speaker 3: I said it to myself.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, absolutely, I have I.
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Speaker 2: Have no right to feel this way. I what am
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Speaker 2: I complaining about? I have a good job. I worked
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Speaker 2: really hard to get here. I can do all of
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Speaker 2: these things because I have this good job. I have
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Speaker 2: three amazing children. It is very much a thing that
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Speaker 2: gets played out in our heads. And I would ask
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Speaker 2: you if your girlfriend came to you and said, I
10:08
Speaker 2: have no right to feel this way, what would you
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Speaker 2: really tell her? Would you tell her you're right, you
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Speaker 2: have no right to feel this way? You would say no,
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Speaker 2: You would say your feelings matter too.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I would say your feelings matter. You feel how
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Speaker 1: you feel. You don't have to edit that. The other
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Speaker 1: thing about these feelings is they can both be true
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Speaker 1: at once. Yes, you can have deep, deep gratitude for
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Speaker 1: all of the things that you have and the way
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Speaker 1: that your life goes, and a healthy family that can
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Speaker 1: be great, and you can still have this piece of
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Speaker 1: you that feels unfulfilled or tossed aside or put in
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Speaker 1: the cedar chest for another day. We don't have to
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Speaker 1: resolve all the things at once. Yes, And it's okay
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Speaker 1: to feel the feelings all a one.
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Speaker 2: And I would add for moms, especially moms with girls,
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Speaker 2: of which I am a portion of that demographic, are
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Speaker 2: you showing your daughter?
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Speaker 1: I dare say that if you have children at all.
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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, It's important for boys to see it too.
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Speaker 1: Yes, right beca if they grow up and have a
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Speaker 1: significant other that is a woman, they would maybe want
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Speaker 1: to understand what it feels like.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 2: The reason I focus specifically on daughters is because I
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Speaker 2: think as women, we receive so much messaging that our
11:25
Speaker 2: role is about others rather than about self focus, and
11:29
Speaker 2: we tend to look negatively on women who are self
11:32
Speaker 2: focused or when women demonstrate self focus. And so one
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Speaker 2: of the things that I like to say to the
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Speaker 2: women who come see me who are moms of young
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Speaker 2: daughters is she needs to see you making yourself a priority.
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Speaker 2: She needs to see that you need to model that
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Speaker 2: for her. Otherwise you are reinforcing the stereotype that says
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Speaker 2: your life is about sacrifice.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody has to come before you.
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Speaker 2: I'm a huge proponent. We've talked about it in other
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Speaker 2: episodes that our children see what we model much better
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Speaker 2: than they see what we say. If we constantly tell
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Speaker 2: our daughters that they have every right to do whatever,
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Speaker 2: to take care of themselves or to be self actualizing,
12:21
Speaker 2: but then do everything in our behavior that models self sacrifice,
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Speaker 2: they don't get the message about self actualization. They get
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Speaker 2: the message that their role and their job is about
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Speaker 2: self sacrifice. So who are you being in your relationship
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Speaker 2: with your daughter is very important to me personally because
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Speaker 2: I have a daughter. I think it's also really important
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Speaker 2: that we as women take that seriously. So, yes, all
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Speaker 2: those things that you said are true. I do have
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Speaker 2: a lot of things. I am grateful for a lot
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Speaker 2: of things, and that is not all of me, and
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Speaker 2: I can ask for more. And maybe this is a
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Speaker 2: sign that there's something deeper going on. Jung talked about
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Speaker 2: shadow work and about self individualization and this feeling of unfulfilled,
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Speaker 2: this feeling of there's something else going on here. These
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Speaker 2: are all the things that point to us to do
13:18
Speaker 2: that work.
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Speaker 3: Do we have to do that work?
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Speaker 2: No, But it is one of the things that points
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Speaker 2: us to actually do the work is when we experience
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Speaker 2: these moments of deep avoidance, deep dissatisfaction, deep thought. Okay,
13:32
Speaker 2: so like, I'm really far down this rabbit hole and
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Speaker 2: I'm wondering, why do you think people stay where they are?
13:40
Speaker 2: Why don't they just move? I mean, I certainly have
13:42
Speaker 2: some thoughts on that one. I know what kept me
13:45
Speaker 2: in place, But wondering what you see as a career coach.
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Speaker 1: A couple of common themes that play out again and
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Speaker 1: again is they don't know what they want, So how
13:55
Speaker 1: can I clearly make a leap or clearly pivot if
13:58
Speaker 1: I don't know what's out there? I don't know what
14:01
Speaker 1: I want and I don't know it's possible. Those are
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Speaker 1: huge and then some of the other huge factors are
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Speaker 1: general fear I can't make this change, I can't take
14:12
Speaker 1: a job less, I can't make less money, I don't
14:15
Speaker 1: have the education, I'm not vied in XYZ. Those are
14:20
Speaker 1: common fears that I hear. And one of the other
14:23
Speaker 1: pieces is how they are so closely identified with their
14:28
Speaker 1: role or their title. And that's listen. I think that's
14:31
Speaker 1: a very common thing in the US in general. When
14:34
Speaker 1: we meet somebody, we're like, hey, what's your name?
14:37
Speaker 3: Oh, what do you do?
14:38
Speaker 2: Like?
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Speaker 1: The job is our identity and it shouldn't be, but
14:41
Speaker 1: it very, very as closely tied with our personal identity.
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Speaker 2: Four years ago I did an interview and it was
14:49
Speaker 2: all about that. It was about the grief associated with
14:53
Speaker 2: leaving our roles. How impactful that is because it is
14:58
Speaker 2: such a large part of not just our our lives,
15:00
Speaker 2: but our identities. I spoke quite extensively about how long
15:05
Speaker 2: it took me to actually let go and process that grief.
15:09
Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean you weren't successful. It doesn't mean
15:12
Speaker 1: you weren't a good whatever that title was, A good teacher,
15:15
Speaker 1: a good customer service manager, a good IT manager. Right,
15:18
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean any of those things, but it can
15:21
Speaker 1: feel like that.
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Speaker 2: And it was my choice to step away. It was
15:26
Speaker 2: my choice to say I want something different for myself. Yes,
15:30
Speaker 2: and I experienced grief. Can you imagine all the people
15:34
Speaker 2: who go through this, for whom the choice is not theirs?
15:38
Speaker 1: Yes?
15:39
Speaker 2: And how much extra grief there is?
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Speaker 1: How many people question did I do something wrong? What
15:45
Speaker 1: about me wasn't good enough?
15:47
Speaker 3: It's awful.
15:48
Speaker 1: It's hard to process big transitions, even when you walk
15:52
Speaker 1: into it with your eyes open. Think about friendships, work friendships. Right,
15:56
Speaker 1: somebody you've worked with for years, somebody you walk past
15:59
Speaker 1: the front desk, receptionist or you, I don't know, if
16:03
Speaker 1: somebody see in the parking lot, somebody you go to
16:04
Speaker 1: lunch with every week, and then when you leave a
16:07
Speaker 1: place of work, all of a sudden, those things are
16:09
Speaker 1: shifted and even if it was your choice, you might
16:12
Speaker 1: still grieve those things. Yes, that's tough work, and maybe
16:16
Speaker 1: talking about is enough so that when somebody experiences that,
16:20
Speaker 1: they'll know, they'll know for themselves. So what else you
16:24
Speaker 1: think is hanging out there about career pivots that we
16:27
Speaker 1: haven't quite touched on yet.
16:28
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go back to my situation. Yeah,
16:32
Speaker 2: it wasn't just me that was going to be impacted
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Speaker 2: by making this choice.
16:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:37
Speaker 2: True, I am in a marriage, We have plans, we
16:41
Speaker 2: have goals, we have a set of financial commitments that
16:44
Speaker 2: were made based on two incomes. It wasn't just about me.
16:49
Speaker 2: It was also having to negotiate, to discuss, work through
16:55
Speaker 2: with another person who may not even understand what you're
16:59
Speaker 2: going through, or may not understand as much as they're
17:03
Speaker 2: trying to why this is such a big deal. And
17:06
Speaker 2: then on top of that, add the fact that what
17:09
Speaker 2: if if I make this choice and a year from
17:12
Speaker 2: now I regret this, three years from now, six months
17:16
Speaker 2: from now, what do I do about that? Can I
17:19
Speaker 2: come back? Has the world moved on without me? Like
17:22
Speaker 2: even now I'm ten years post this decision, I receive
17:27
Speaker 2: it jobs all the time and I look at them
17:31
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, I could go back to that,
17:34
Speaker 2: and some of my financial problems might be resolved tomorrow
17:37
Speaker 2: if I went back to that. And so then you
17:42
Speaker 2: start thinking, well, what are they gonna say about this
17:44
Speaker 2: break that I've had? How is that going to translate?
17:48
Speaker 2: How is that going to impact me? Have I lost
17:51
Speaker 2: space because I don't know the latest security technologies right,
17:56
Speaker 2: especially in a space like technology. Ten years can make
18:00
Speaker 2: big difference. Huge, Okay, huge difference now I look at
18:04
Speaker 2: it from the perspective also that, but my process information
18:08
Speaker 2: hasn't changed. How to manage a project hasn't changed. How
18:12
Speaker 2: to manage a process hasn't changed, how to manage people,
18:15
Speaker 2: how to lead up, how to hold people accountable, all
18:18
Speaker 2: of those things haven't changed. I can learn the technology stuff,
18:22
Speaker 2: So I'm a little less afraid of the gap in
18:25
Speaker 2: the years, but it's still it still has real estate
18:29
Speaker 2: in my brain right, it still has a spot where
18:34
Speaker 2: what are people going to say? And then when we're
18:36
Speaker 2: going through this, when we're going through any kind of
18:39
Speaker 2: change like this, what I see in my clients is
18:42
Speaker 2: one they want somebody to tell them.
18:45
Speaker 1: And they want permission or they want somebody to say
18:48
Speaker 1: you should go ahead.
18:49
Speaker 2: You should yes, and then the other thing they want,
18:52
Speaker 2: which of course I never do.
18:53
Speaker 3: Right, won't you tell me? Because it's not my life.
18:58
Speaker 3: I don't have to live it.
18:59
Speaker 2: I have everything you have have my own problems, like
19:03
Speaker 2: don't ask me.
19:04
Speaker 3: I don't know.
19:06
Speaker 2: I mean, I certainly have my opinions. I'm not going
19:09
Speaker 2: to share them with you because I don't want to
19:12
Speaker 2: impact you one way or the other. Correct, But I
19:15
Speaker 2: think the other aspect of it is we just want
19:18
Speaker 2: to get to the other side. We want to, you know.
19:21
Speaker 2: One of my favorite poems is Robert Frost The Road
19:24
Speaker 2: nut Taken There. I stood in the dark wood and
19:27
Speaker 2: try to evaluate each path and down I looked one
19:30
Speaker 2: path as far as I could to see how it.
19:33
Speaker 3: Was going to go.
19:34
Speaker 2: And then you have to make the decision. And the
19:36
Speaker 2: decision is everything. You have to make the choice which
19:39
Speaker 2: path am I going to take? And in making that choice,
19:43
Speaker 2: you're not going to come back because way leads onto way,
19:47
Speaker 2: and I saved that one for another time. But I'm
19:50
Speaker 2: never going to come back there because even if I
19:52
Speaker 2: go back there, the timing is different. It might be
19:55
Speaker 2: summer instead of winter, it might be fall, it might
19:58
Speaker 2: be rainy, it might be who knows, right, I mean,
20:00
Speaker 2: I can take this analogy and like run with it
20:03
Speaker 2: for the next hour. Well, my point is, which is
20:05
Speaker 2: why I love that poem some much. The whole point
20:08
Speaker 2: is we want to get to the other side. We
20:10
Speaker 2: want to see what that other side looks like so
20:13
Speaker 2: that we can make the decision now. And then the
20:15
Speaker 2: answer is we can't. Yeah, that's not how it works.
20:20
Speaker 1: No, And that brings me to inner trust. How much
20:23
Speaker 1: of a pivot is it just inner trust?
20:27
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that is just such a huge thing.
20:31
Speaker 2: We're not isolated people. Every decision that I make for
20:35
Speaker 2: myself for others impacts all the other people in my life, right,
20:40
Speaker 2: It impacts my children, it impacts my dogs for crying
20:43
Speaker 2: out loud, like seriously, And I think that is such
20:48
Speaker 2: a huge thing. When somebody else's life could be impacted
20:52
Speaker 2: by a decision that you make, trusting yourself with that
20:56
Speaker 2: decision can be that much harder.
21:00
Speaker 3: I can't mean, I'm curious.
21:01
Speaker 2: And that when people come to see you. Sometimes we're
21:04
Speaker 2: going through something for sure, we don't have a simple answer,
21:07
Speaker 2: so we start looking at maybe a career changes. Maybe
21:11
Speaker 2: this is something I need to do, or we've had
21:12
Speaker 2: a really bad week, or I just got a new
21:15
Speaker 2: boss and they're nothing like my old boss and I
21:18
Speaker 2: don't think I'm going to be able to pull through this.
21:21
Speaker 2: How do you help people who are going through this
21:24
Speaker 2: decide is it just a bad week, has it just
21:27
Speaker 2: been a bad season, or is there something else that's
21:30
Speaker 2: going on here?
21:31
Speaker 1: I love that question, and it's not an easy one
21:33
Speaker 1: to answer. There's a part of career coaching that I
21:37
Speaker 1: call career exploration, what's out there for me, what's next?
21:41
Speaker 1: But also a bit of that is related to what's
21:44
Speaker 1: going on for you? And is this being brought up
21:47
Speaker 1: by you running away from something and not knowing what
21:51
Speaker 1: you're running towards or is there something that is calling
21:55
Speaker 1: you and you're just not sure you want to answer
21:58
Speaker 1: that call. So it's separating those two. You know, am
22:01
Speaker 1: I running away from something? Or am I running towards something?
22:04
Speaker 1: And if you're running away because sometimes we are right,
22:07
Speaker 1: these things that you've talked about are very real. Toxic workplace,
22:11
Speaker 1: a ridiculous boss, those are real factors that happen. So yes,
22:15
Speaker 1: we need to probably run away from those, but is
22:18
Speaker 1: there something else for us on the other side, or
22:21
Speaker 1: are we just so worried about getting away that we
22:24
Speaker 1: leave it all costs without running through the list of
22:27
Speaker 1: is this a good move? Is this a long term move?
22:30
Speaker 1: Do I make this short term move knowing that I
22:33
Speaker 1: might need to move again in six months or a year.
22:37
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that you're bringing up here,
22:39
Speaker 2: I just want to jump in for a moment. This
22:41
Speaker 2: is exactly why having a coach is so much better
22:46
Speaker 2: than using a trusted advisor, because you, as the coach,
22:49
Speaker 2: you're an independent viewer. Yeah, everybody else we're going to
22:53
Speaker 2: talk to has a stake in this decision.
22:56
Speaker 1: Yes, especially people you may currently work with, family members.
23:00
Speaker 1: They're listening to you, they love you, they want you
23:03
Speaker 1: to do the right thing for you. But yes, they're
23:05
Speaker 1: invested and interested in the outcome. Not that your coach
23:09
Speaker 1: isn't invested in the outcome. They want what also what's
23:12
Speaker 1: best for you, But they are an objective third party
23:15
Speaker 1: that can say, Sandra, is that really what you want
23:18
Speaker 1: to do? Are you so worried about running away from
23:21
Speaker 1: your toxic boss that you're really going to take a
23:24
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars pay cut. Those are the questions that
23:26
Speaker 1: I would be asking you to spur you and goosh,
23:30
Speaker 1: who knows what you get as the new boss. One
23:32
Speaker 1: of my clients went into a new job, was very
23:35
Speaker 1: excited about it, and within the first year their current boss,
23:40
Speaker 1: the person that hired them left the organization. You can't
23:43
Speaker 1: control all those factors. It's important to have a really
23:46
Speaker 1: good leader. Knowing that you really have very little impact
23:49
Speaker 1: on that outcome, maybe you would make a different decision.
23:52
Speaker 2: And I think this goes back to the question you
23:55
Speaker 2: were asking about self trust. Do you trust yourself to
23:58
Speaker 2: deal with whatever comes up in the new job since
24:01
Speaker 2: so much of it you can't see far enough into
24:04
Speaker 2: the future. Ya.
24:06
Speaker 1: And just like I've heard hiring managers moan about this
24:10
Speaker 1: a little bit, Oh, I hired this person, this is
24:12
Speaker 1: who they were in the interview, and then the person
24:14
Speaker 1: that actually showed up for work different. We've all had
24:19
Speaker 1: that experience as hiring it.
24:20
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about.
24:22
Speaker 1: I know you don't. It's never happened. But think the reverse.
24:25
Speaker 1: Think how many people have been onboarded, They start this
24:28
Speaker 1: new job and twelve weeks later they're like, oh my gosh,
24:32
Speaker 1: what did I do? This place is a nightmare. These
24:35
Speaker 1: processes are bad. Nobody cares about me.
24:38
Speaker 2: So and that is actually what happens because there's the
24:42
Speaker 2: honeymoon phase and then there's.
24:43
Speaker 3: The shop phase.
24:45
Speaker 2: Right, so we always experience a dip in the new
24:49
Speaker 2: hire process. That's where the risk comes in. Are they
24:52
Speaker 2: a flight at that point? Right? Yes?
24:55
Speaker 1: And so onboarding, I mean I could go into onboarding forever.
24:58
Speaker 1: That experience brings somebody new onto your team is a
25:02
Speaker 1: huge experience, and then your responsibility to yourself as the
25:05
Speaker 1: new hire being onboard it huge process and there's a
25:09
Speaker 1: way to do it that will help you get through
25:12
Speaker 1: it and help you take charge of what you can
25:14
Speaker 1: control so that you get what you need out of
25:16
Speaker 1: it and you're not always relying on somebody else to
25:19
Speaker 1: guide you through or walk you to everybody else's door
25:22
Speaker 1: to meet them. You take charge of that process. Back
25:25
Speaker 1: to your original question, getting to the root of why
25:28
Speaker 1: you need this change right now is really important. What
25:31
Speaker 1: is your motivation? What has you finally saying I'm ready
25:34
Speaker 1: to hire a coach because I have to get out
25:36
Speaker 1: and then taking action based on your real feelings and
25:40
Speaker 1: needs instead of I just have to get away from
25:43
Speaker 1: what's over there.
25:44
Speaker 2: And you might need to just get absolute from what's
25:46
Speaker 2: over there.
25:47
Speaker 1: And I've worked with people like that. I'm sure you've
25:49
Speaker 1: worked with people like that in your practice as well.
25:52
Speaker 1: Some people just have to get out. It is so bad,
25:54
Speaker 1: they just have to get out. And then there's also
25:57
Speaker 1: questions we can talk about there too, Do you have
26:00
Speaker 1: the financial means to just get out? What happens? How
26:03
Speaker 1: long can you support yourself?
26:04
Speaker 2: What?
26:05
Speaker 1: And not that I have those answers for them, it's
26:07
Speaker 1: to get them thinking about those answers, work with their
26:10
Speaker 1: trusted financial advisors so that they know what's the next
26:13
Speaker 1: best step for them and clearly map it out.
26:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what you're raising, I think is a good point.
26:19
Speaker 2: We can often feel so overwhelmed in the decision or
26:25
Speaker 2: in the situation that we're in we don't even know
26:27
Speaker 2: what we need to be thinking about. And so even
26:30
Speaker 2: just talking with someone, having them ask those questions, having
26:35
Speaker 2: them play through a few scenarios with us, can also
26:40
Speaker 2: start to formulate the Okay, I'm not ready right now,
26:43
Speaker 2: but these are the things that I need to start
26:45
Speaker 2: thinking about because I am going to be ready. There's
26:48
Speaker 2: no question about this. I do need to make this move,
26:51
Speaker 2: but I'm not ready right now. So one of the
26:53
Speaker 2: things that I did was I actually decided that I
26:56
Speaker 2: was going to go back to school and retool in
26:59
Speaker 2: different ways. Is one of those ways, you know, accounting
27:04
Speaker 2: just doesn't end up being my thing. Once I tax accounting,
27:07
Speaker 2: I realized, oh yeah, no, no, no, lots of other accountings,
27:11
Speaker 2: but not tax accounting.
27:13
Speaker 3: This is crappy. I don't like this.
27:15
Speaker 2: So the CPA route wasn't really goldn to work for me.
27:18
Speaker 2: But you know it led to other things, yes.
27:21
Speaker 1: Yes, And it led for you to start exploring what
27:25
Speaker 1: those options were. You started imagining how you'd want your
27:28
Speaker 1: days to be, how you'd want to work, how you'd
27:31
Speaker 1: want to be the example for your family. Oh and
27:34
Speaker 1: can I take us back to that point, because I
27:36
Speaker 1: was going to tell you something. You were saying that
27:39
Speaker 1: part of your pivot, your huge reinvention, was related to
27:43
Speaker 1: how you wanted your daughter to see you moving through
27:46
Speaker 1: your life. And I think that's amazing. And I see
27:50
Speaker 1: a lot of women do that because they say, I
27:53
Speaker 1: have kids, I have a daughter that I need to
27:55
Speaker 1: show what it's possible for them perfect. And then there's
27:58
Speaker 1: other women that I want watching you move through life.
28:01
Speaker 1: Maybe as a star, a friend, a cousin. It might
28:04
Speaker 1: not even be somebody that you're completely aware of as
28:07
Speaker 1: watching your journey. And if you think that you might
28:10
Speaker 1: have somebody in your life that needs to see that,
28:13
Speaker 1: I think that's another good motivating reason to not stay
28:18
Speaker 1: stuck and stay miserable just because you're worried about how
28:21
Speaker 1: it's going to look to others. Yeah, there's somebody watching
28:24
Speaker 1: it that needs to know that they're worth it. Because
28:26
Speaker 1: they saw that, you know that you're worth it.
28:28
Speaker 3: That's so true.
28:29
Speaker 2: We don't realize who's watching. Everyone's watching, whether we want
28:34
Speaker 2: them to or not tell us what like forty two
28:37
Speaker 2: to forty nine was all about, Right, people are making
28:40
Speaker 2: up stories otus.
28:42
Speaker 1: They are making up stories about us, and we were
28:44
Speaker 1: always in a way saying that was a bad thing.
28:47
Speaker 1: But somebody could be making up a story about you
28:50
Speaker 1: if that is also a good thing or has impacted
28:53
Speaker 1: them in a positive, good way. And so yeah, maybe
28:58
Speaker 1: maybe not all stories are bad stories or stories that
29:01
Speaker 1: we have to correct. Mm hmm, yeah, I love that.
29:04
Speaker 2: Well, what might it look like if somebody starts trying
29:08
Speaker 2: to explore how to make these moves? Do they call
29:12
Speaker 2: a career coach. I mean, I only know what happened
29:15
Speaker 2: for me, which was I started thinking about going back
29:18
Speaker 2: to school. But I'm just curious, since this is the
29:22
Speaker 2: field that you're in, what do you see people doing
29:25
Speaker 2: to start this exploration.
29:26
Speaker 1: I think they allow themselves the chance to evaluate and
29:31
Speaker 1: explore a little bit. What's something that seems cool for them?
29:35
Speaker 1: Do they get the job descriptions delivered right? Are their
29:38
Speaker 1: job openings being delivered every day to your inbox? I
29:41
Speaker 1: know you said you still get ones related to my
29:44
Speaker 1: corporate career, but sometimes that keeps you interested, or sometimes
29:48
Speaker 1: you see something that says ooh and it sparks something
29:52
Speaker 1: for you. Can you go back to your alma mater
29:54
Speaker 1: and see what people graduating in your field now are doing.
29:59
Speaker 1: These are all great ways just to get the interest
30:02
Speaker 1: going and get you back into it. You can read articles,
30:05
Speaker 1: you can read books. You know, I'm a big proponent
30:08
Speaker 1: of reading. And then when you're ready to talk about it,
30:11
Speaker 1: you can engage with a trusted advisor, mentor sponsor. And
30:15
Speaker 1: then when you think I'm going to make this change,
30:19
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, then yes, you would start
30:22
Speaker 1: interviewing some coaches and say, hey, this is what I
30:25
Speaker 1: want to do. Most folks like you and I, Sandra,
30:28
Speaker 1: offer a chance to have a little bit of a
30:30
Speaker 1: strategy session or an exploration call, and maybe you can
30:33
Speaker 1: use that time to vet some of your ideas and
30:36
Speaker 1: hear what somebody else has to say about them. And
30:39
Speaker 1: then there's a path, there's a framework, there's something that
30:41
Speaker 1: somebody can walk you through to make sure that you
30:44
Speaker 1: are confident with your own decision, and then you start
30:46
Speaker 1: you take the actions.
30:48
Speaker 2: What's the framework?
30:49
Speaker 1: I have a framework that I created. It's called Career,
30:53
Speaker 1: and the acronym stands for connect, achievement, responsibility, evaluate, exit,
31:00
Speaker 1: and reinvent. They are not these exclusive boxes that you
31:04
Speaker 1: have to put yourself in, and often during your career
31:07
Speaker 1: you're going to float through the career framework. But connecting
31:11
Speaker 1: is often how we get like those first jobs, or
31:14
Speaker 1: get the job that we're in currently. Right, did somebody
31:16
Speaker 1: refer you in? And then for the achievement, the job's
31:20
Speaker 1: going great, right, you're hitting your targets, you love it,
31:22
Speaker 1: it's interesting work. And then responsibility is that piece where
31:26
Speaker 1: most of the clients that I work with feel a shift.
31:29
Speaker 1: A shift in their responsibility causes them to look at
31:33
Speaker 1: everything they're doing and saying what am I doing here?
31:36
Speaker 1: Why is it not going so well? Why don't I
31:37
Speaker 1: love it anymore? And then that puts you in evaluate
31:40
Speaker 1: and evaluate says what are my options? What am I doing?
31:43
Speaker 1: And then if you truly are evaluating your options and
31:46
Speaker 1: you find better options, then you start to say, Okay,
31:50
Speaker 1: I think I can exit this circumstance here and I
31:53
Speaker 1: can read that myself. And again see how that's super fluid.
31:56
Speaker 1: Sometimes people evaluate and say I cannot make a change now,
32:00
Speaker 1: I need to make sure my kids get out of school.
32:01
Speaker 1: I need to get out of school. Whatever circumstances help
32:04
Speaker 1: you evaluate and say I'm going to stay here for now,
32:07
Speaker 1: and then they stay. Or you can start to reinvent
32:10
Speaker 1: vent yourself inside of the role that you're already in.
32:13
Speaker 1: Maybe that's an option where you say, I'm going to
32:16
Speaker 1: take on more responsibility, I'm going to do something different,
32:18
Speaker 1: I'm going to hop back in, I'm going to reinvest
32:20
Speaker 1: in this self in this role, and I'm going to
32:23
Speaker 1: stay here. There are so many options, but that is
32:25
Speaker 1: the framework where I help people identify it. Or are
32:28
Speaker 1: you right now and let's see where you'd like to
32:31
Speaker 1: go next?
32:32
Speaker 2: I think that's so firming because a lot of people
32:34
Speaker 2: have this idea that if I start the exploration process,
32:37
Speaker 2: it means I'm leaving it.
32:39
Speaker 1: Could it could mean that. It could also mean that
32:42
Speaker 1: you decide, based on all the evidence you've uncovered, that
32:46
Speaker 1: you're going to stay, that that's what you want for
32:48
Speaker 1: right now and have to be a long term decision.
32:50
Speaker 1: But it could be what happens until you've decided you're
32:54
Speaker 1: going to take the next step.
32:55
Speaker 2: It could be like me, cost accounting was awesome until
32:59
Speaker 2: it was tax accounting not so awesome. And I know
33:04
Speaker 2: lots of people who are going to hear that and say, are.
33:06
Speaker 3: You kidding me?
33:07
Speaker 2: You liked cost accounting.
33:09
Speaker 3: I loved cost accounting. It was awesome. Well, and how
33:13
Speaker 3: not the tax stuff right?
33:14
Speaker 1: And how many times did we turn away from something
33:17
Speaker 1: that was our dream because there was some piece of
33:20
Speaker 1: us that wasn't equipped, couldn't do it, found it boring? Right?
33:25
Speaker 1: Like I wanted to be a doctor. I could not
33:28
Speaker 1: do calculus to save my soul. Now when I've done
33:31
Speaker 1: something different, Yes, when I look back now, i'd been like,
33:33
Speaker 1: you didn't even get a tutor, you didn't even try
33:36
Speaker 1: and figure it out. You were just like, WHOA, this
33:38
Speaker 1: is too much and I walked away. But that doesn't
33:41
Speaker 1: mean I wouldn't have done it that way. Now you
33:43
Speaker 1: have to give yourself the grace to grow and change
33:45
Speaker 1: and develop and say who I was then isn't who
33:48
Speaker 1: I am now? And you move from the spot you're
33:50
Speaker 1: at right now instead of worrying about what was back there.
33:54
Speaker 1: Or you know, cost accounting, I mean, maybe that's a
33:57
Speaker 1: future focus for you right only be in cost to act Sandra,
34:00
Speaker 1: I don't know, no.
34:01
Speaker 2: I think I've found my niche not cost accounting. And
34:07
Speaker 2: I was going to say I loved calculus. You know
34:10
Speaker 2: math minor.
34:11
Speaker 1: Here have I known you?
34:14
Speaker 2: No? Because I could never be a doctor because if
34:17
Speaker 2: somebody shows me blood, I'm likely to pass out. So
34:23
Speaker 2: I would never have gotten past anatomy.
34:28
Speaker 1: Well, and you don't know the things you don't know
34:30
Speaker 1: until you don't know them.
34:31
Speaker 2: I know I will pass out if I see blood.
34:33
Speaker 2: I guarantee yes, unless it's my kid's blood, and then
34:37
Speaker 2: I'll get through the shock and the assisting them, and
34:40
Speaker 2: then I'll.
34:40
Speaker 1: Pass Good to know now I'll be more cautious.
34:44
Speaker 2: And I have had lots of experience where I can
34:47
Speaker 2: point to and say absolutely, Sandra will get through the
34:51
Speaker 2: crises and then.
34:52
Speaker 3: She'll pass out.
34:53
Speaker 1: I love that we talked about what does a career
34:57
Speaker 1: PAYVOT mean, So we defined that we're not just talking
35:00
Speaker 1: about changing a job. We're talking about making a big
35:04
Speaker 1: change from where we are, what we've been doing, something
35:07
Speaker 1: that shakes everything up for us. Defining that, and then
35:11
Speaker 1: we've decided that the pathlic's different for everybody. There's not
35:15
Speaker 1: a wrong we reason to make up pot and there
35:18
Speaker 1: are some frameworks and questions you can ask yourself to
35:21
Speaker 1: decide if this is the right move, And it's okay
35:24
Speaker 1: to explore and figure out what's right for you, and
35:28
Speaker 1: it's also okay to decide the timing maybe isn't right.
35:33
Speaker 2: I think the other thing we've talked about is that
35:36
Speaker 2: there could be lots of reasons. Some of them could
35:38
Speaker 2: be work related. Some of them could be just what's
35:42
Speaker 2: going on in your life period and has nothing to
35:45
Speaker 2: do with work.
35:45
Speaker 1: Yes, right, Yeah, those things could still impact your work, absolutely, yes,
35:51
Speaker 1: And that's okay for sure. Yeah, but I really think
35:55
Speaker 1: you might want to reflect now on what questions about
35:59
Speaker 1: your career keep coming back or keep coming up for
36:02
Speaker 1: you and then sit with those, don't just keep pushing
36:05
Speaker 1: them aside because it feels inconvenient. And just like you
36:08
Speaker 1: spend every time networking or doing some personal development activity
36:12
Speaker 1: or meditating or working out your career, deserve that deserves
36:16
Speaker 1: that amount of attention and reflection, and it's okay to
36:19
Speaker 1: take that time. I love this good conversation. Until next week.
36:24
Speaker 1: I invite everyone that is listening. If you haven't already
36:27
Speaker 1: joined us, we have a community newsletter that goes out
36:30
Speaker 1: every week, so please join that. At exposing the Hidden
36:33
Speaker 1: reality dot com. We share reflections, resources, and conversations that
36:38
Speaker 1: build after the live button is off. I'll see you
36:42
Speaker 1: next week, Sandra, see next week